/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>182525
Sauce:
http://www.businessinsider.com/warren-buffett-speaks-on-cnbc-2014-3

>>182525
Sounds about right.

We have reached peak shakedown

Not really, the guy didn't even pose an argument

Mad he missed the train

>>182525
Its not a currency, its a commodity.
Very few people spend them, most save because they're mad they missed the train. This is a bubble.

He is correct.

He's right. Dogecoin is better

>>182525
Guess what else won't be around in 10-20 years...
Warren Buffett. He's growing old, and everything he says is for his own benefit and no one else.
Why would someone like Warren Buffett even like Bitcoin? If I was him, Bitcoin would be on my list of enemies.

>>182571

The argument is simple

"I'm Warren Buffet"

also this >>182575
it's not hard to see that bitcoin users are not users but speculators holding and waiting for price rises

>>182566

Indeed. He will forever be a poorfag NEET for missing the train.

Warrent Buffett doesnt understand technology and thats why he doesnt invest in anything to do with technology. He's said it himself [citation needed]

Don't invest in something you don't understand

>>182612
Mfw we are all invested in the USD and 98% don't understand what the fed is doing

>>182525
He's correct. Bitcoin is well written, but all technology is succeeded by better technology.
Bitcoin will die in 10-20 years, but other cryptocurrencies will flourish.

He's probably right

The most people can expect of Bitcoin is something like Paypal 2.0, with automated exchange from USD to BTC to USD again.

Correct.

It's not a currency, it's a highly speculative and volatile commodity that is more dangerous than penny stocks.

It also won't be around in 10/20 years. It's basically a prototype. Whatever future cryptocurrencies exist will be better designed and implemented.

>>182612
>Warrent Buffett doesnt understand technology and thats why he doesnt invest in anything to do with technology.

What is IBM?

>>182525
Of course he would say that. He plays by the rules of monopoly money. That's how he got to his wealth, he plays the system.

>>182525

XRP will be the digital currency of e-commerce.

Bitcoin will be gone in 2 years.

>>182662
XRP is not even a cryptocurrency.

>>182525

He's partially right, but cryptocurrencies and virtual forms of money are the future. The current banking system is way antiquated and technology will find a way to fix it.

>>182639
that night he fucked all 4 of them.

>>182566
didn't he miss the boat instead of the train?

Not really surprising, given how buffet evaluates his holdings. What value is there in a bunch if 0s and 1s people use to buy drugs until it becomes so big it gets cracked down on or targeted by hackers?

>>182653
>implying cryptocurrency isn't monopoly money that people play to get wealth

mysides.jpg

>>182668
Digital? Yes (most money is already digital if you think about it).

Using a crypto protocol to crowdsource transactions? Possible.

Currency with a fixed supply rate? No, good lord no.

>>182525

He's a tech retard like most of his generation. Unfortunately bitcoin can be controlled by the private sector and there's no one governing some rich people or group of people (read: china) from controlling the market and they see fit.

I would agree with buffet, but for different reasons.

>>182575
Indeed.
I think if a coin wants to be truly successful, it needs to start out somewhat hard to mine (so that people get them at maybe 1 per day with average comp), but have difficulty increase logarithmically instead of exponentially

>>182696
Oh, and by logarithmically I mean logarithmically with time, so even accounting for the fact that the number of miners will increase if it gets popular. So like log(log()) maybe

It's not a currency because you can't buy anything with it.

>>182731
I'm not really sure if this is shitposting or people really still are this ignorant of all the things you can buy with bitcoin.

I hope its shitposting, because if you really are that oblivious to the topic please just stop posting.

>>182749
what can you buy with bitcoin?

>>182692
Digital is insecure without encryption, Fiat currently requires a 3rd party to do this.

Crypto currencies, are by nature, encrypted, and eliminate this additional service.

>Currency with a fixed supply rate? No, good lord no.
What is wrong with a fixed supply rate?

>>182759
>What is wrong with a fixed supply rate?
Just look at Bitcoin

>>182759
>What is wrong with a fixed supply rate?

There are many things wrong with a fixed supply rate. There's a reason everyone abandoned the gold standard.

>>182756
overstock.com takes bitcoin now

>>182583
>The argument is simple
>"I'm Warren Buffet"
But he's actually earned the right to use that as an argument.

>>182774
>>182765
So Dogecoin is the future?

Of course Bitcoin is a bubble. But that bubble obviously already burst, as Bitcoin was worth $1200 to go down to $500 and now $650.

If real exchanges around the world moved up and down like that, it would have been the Great Depression all over again.

>>182789

It's still fixed in that there's no central authority to manage the amount of Dogecoins in existence. The ability to add and remove money from the supply based on market conditions is a good thing.

>>182693
I'd be more worried about Eastern Euro mafias controlling it given most of the exchange traffic now comes from there... and a good deal of the mining pool.

bitcoin is the first cryptocurrency
cryptocurrency is the future
by relevance alone, bitcoin is the future
if this means its name will be changed, it really doesn't matter. the only thing that matters is the holdings, which will endure whatever changes are to come, unless there's a powerful market scare, crash, and crippling distrust in the brand. But that wouldn't lead away from cryptocurrency, just away from bitcoin alone.

at least maza is based on metals.

>>182575
>Its not a currency, its a commodity.
A currency is nothing more than a commodity whose main purpose is to transfer value

>>182807
No it's not. You're a brainwashed goy.

>>182525

I agree that bitcoin may not be 'the' crypto of the future, just as Facebook went on to surpass Myspace due to better functionality and end user experience.

One thing buttcoin has to fix in order to truly take that next step is the transaction times. 15-30 minutes is simply not optimal for face to face daily interactions. Especially when there are alts that have over 90 billion coins and transfer almost instantaneously.

>>182838

Yes, yes it is.

>inb4 anarcho-capitalist ranting about how the Fed is evil.

>>182810
Bitcoin is the opposite of the future. It's the fucking past. It's a devolved anonymous currency, subject to a high level of volatility that renders it useless on a macro-scale.

>>182848

Can you explain, it always feel slike someone is just taking my money or manipulating it for the sake of big business profits.

how does it help the planet as a whole?

>>182891

In a nutshell it helps to reduce the impact of recessions.

Imagine a world where there is no opportunity. No way to make your fortune. In order to get a job and create wealth for yourself, you must have tons of money in the first place. There is no regulation in your economy, and what few coins you have are subject to extreme volatility. There is no middle class. If you're born poor that's the way you'll stay for life. If you're born rich you'll just get even richer.

>>182826
Then what i meant to say is that the value is unstable and propped up by speculators which make up a majority of users

>>182774
The gold standard was abandoned so governments could spend recklessly and inflate away the debt. Additionally, it favors businesses and investors at the cost of those with fixed wages.

>>182692

Yes, but I mean in the sense of money processing. In specific, I'm talking about how bullshit it is that it takes 3-5 days to process a check.

>>182784

Stop riding on his dick, he's fallible like the rest of us.

>>183415
He's researched investing for his entire life, devoted a large fraction of his being to learning more about it. What the fuck have you done get the fuck off this board kid

>>183457

SO THEREFORE HE CAN NEVER BE WRONG ON ANYTHING EVER.

THANK YOU BASED BUFFET

>>182525
We all know that

we are just fucking around with cryptocurrency for fun and for the ride

hes probably right

>>182681
Missing the boat is worse because at least with a train you'll still be able to walk along the tracks if you miss it.

>>183457

Not that guy but to be fair he is probably too old to understand the importance of it. I've noticed that old people generally don't understand technologically advanced things. If he doesn't understand the ability to send money across the world in 10 minutes for almost no fee then idk what to say. Its not 1975 anymore.

>>182974
Feels good to live on planet Earth in 2014.

>>183579
You know that the reason the financial system doesn't send it faster is to control fraud.

You know, that thing that bitcoin is horrible at controlling.

I agree. It's a commodity and it will almost surely be usurped by something better.

>>183598

Why? Do they check all transactions manually? That doesn't seem possible.

>>183598
It's just based on personal security.
Your coins are your responsibility. You decide where they are kept and how.
If you lose em, it's because you fucked up.

I fucking love it.

Warren B telling it like it is.

>>182717
>by logarithmically I mean logarithmically with time
>So like log(log()) maybe
D-do you have autism?

>>183629
No fraud algorithms are used, suspicious transactions are flagged. And it gives time for the customer to notice and flag suspicious activity.

>>183703

If computers are used then why does it take so long?

>>183682
What?
If the number of people mining the coin increases exponentially, and you want difficulty to be logarithmic with time, you want difficulty to be log(log(# of coins mined so far))

Who gives a shit what jimmy Buffett thinks, he has always been skeptical of technology. He has basically never invested in a tech stock.

>>183715
It is SUPPOSED to take time, by design. It allows for suspicious transactions to be reviewed and for customers to report fraud if they detect it in their accounts. Some transactions, like for instance a Chase check cashed into a Chase account will post instantly because it's easier for them to resolve internal disputes.

>>183748

But if computers are used and the majority of transactions are normal and the algorithm flags them as good then why would they hold them? If all transactions are only reviewed manually if flagged then why not just delay the flagged ones?

>>183769
Low risk transactions are cleared much faster, like the internal ones I just mentioned. Last time I checked banks usually clear normal checks between the same business day to two days depending.

If a customer's checkbook or card was stolen they will have time to report it before the transactions are changed from pending to finalized. The algorithm can detect unusual behavior but there are other things that require direct input from the user to detect reliably.

The point is, the current financial system has waiting times built into it, though details vary from bank to bank.

>>182525
fuck him and margaritavile.

>A deflationary currency ever working

I actually think that cryptocurrencies are a good thing to the extent that they delegitimise the current currency printing scheme, however any non-Fiat currency is doomed to fail, for the simple reason that it can't adjust to the economy as it grows, forcing the economy to instead adjust to it.

As the economy grows and new wealth is produced, and as no additional currency can be created we have the issue that fewer bitcoins reflect more value.

On one side that means that your savings are worth more, on the other that means that your debt is also more (the 10 bills that you have to pay now reflect more than the 10 bills that you initially accepted as each installment to your debt. That is practically reflected through necessary price deflations (as we have more products but the same quantity of currency to buy them with, therefore each individual product must cost less, the economy must adapt to the arteriosclerotic currency)

However the real problem is this. The constant price deflation acts in the exact opposite way from a consistent increase in monetary supply. Whereas the latter causes prices to increase faster than the monetary supply (which the seller expects to increase beforehands) thus leading to hyperinflation, in this case the prediction that prices will necessarilly fall in order to adjust to growth with a steady monetary supply leads to an increase in the marginal propensity to save. people start hoarding.

Why buy product A today when you know that it will inevitably cost less tomorrow? The best idea is to save your currency because its reflected value is constantly increasing. Which causes a deflationary trap. Noone buys anything because he knows that tomorrow it will cost less. Any market with an elastic demand is starting to fail. People are getting fired and worst of all while their savings are slowly depleted their debt is constantly increasing (not in nominal numbers either) which causes a depression.

>>183666
The dynamic is organized criminals, particularly from eastern Europe, versus you. Coincidentally that's where most of the exchange traffic is in bitcoin. Adding up the bitcoin thefts gives a lower bound of 1.6 million coins out of 12.4 million in existence. To say that fraud is a problem is an understatment. No one would accept that from real banks.

>>182756
there are a few small and even fewer mid sized businesses that accept bitcoin

it's basically a glorified gift card

I think he's right. If the Bitcoin model proves sound, then people wont suddenly embrace Bitcoin, governments will instead just roll out their own legal-tender cryptocurrencies, mark-of-the-beast type shit.

>>183927

In my mind bitcoin is just another wonderful product and wonderful idea that has been ruined by speculators inflating it's value to make a quick buck

It happens with stocks and it's happening with bitcoin

so long as it's considered primarily an investment veichle, it will never be a currency. To be a currency, it needs slow growth.

>>182692
>All these people who don't understand what monopoly money is

>>182525
warren buffett wont be around in 10-20 years who cares what that old fuck says

>>182525
>bitcoin won't likely be around in 10-20 years
Neither will Warren Buffett.

>>183927
Yep, I'm already talking with Government officials in my country to start developing a sustainable, fair coin. It won't be implemented for a few years though.

There is a lot more work needed.

>>182525

I say Warren Buffett won't likely be around in 10-20 years.

>>182575
>Its not a currency

cur·ren·cy (kûr′ən-sē, kŭr′-)
n. pl. cur·ren·cies
1. Money in any form when in actual use as a medium of exchange
2. Transmission from person to person as a medium of exchange; circulation
3. General acceptance or use; prevalence
4. The state of being current; up-to-dateness:

let me guess,... your over 40

>>182581
#shotsfired

>inflationary currencies encourage spending - better for the economy
>deflationary currencies encourage fedoras on 4chan to hold onto their money in the hopes they can once again turn it back in fiat and become mad rich, but since half the people missed the boat/train they have to shill constantly EVERY.FUCKING.WHERE to explain why it is the future, ignoring the obvious downsides and talk about how secure bitcoin is despite the fact your life savings can be wiped out with a .jpg

It's really not that hard to understand

>>182525
oy vey! i'd betta check tha damage

http://preev.com/

oh wait buttcoin still going strong at $640

>it's "instrinsic value" is it's usefulness as a currency
>pleb oldfags won't understand

>>183889
>Why buy product A today when you know that it will inevitably cost less tomorrow?
because I need it today?

>>183935
>In my mind bitcoin is just another wonderful product and wonderful idea that has been ruined by speculators inflating it's value to make a quick buck
Implying speculators are evil.
They are merely the specialists who agree to buy your coins in times of panic and who are still willing to sell when prices are rising and you desperately want to buy.

>>184593
>because I need it today?

If that was the only reason people buy things, the whole consumerism thing would never take off.

Some bitcoin shops have already confirmed that every time BTC started growing rapidly, sales went down.

>>182525
>Bitcoin is not a currency and won't likely be around in 10-20 years.

Warren Buffet is not a billionaire and wont likely be around in 10-20 years.

mufukka doesn't even internet.

>>184795
>not a billionaire
kek

>won't likely be around in 10-20 years
>implying he isn't wealthy enough to afford the secret immortality drug.

>>184593
>>184648
Electronics are constantly deflating in value, yet people still buy TV's, Laptops, Smartphones etc.

Bought a 2000$ Laptop last month, probably could buy it for half the price next year.

It might not, but there will always be a big crypto.

is this /biz/ the home of the bitcoin shills

>>184851

Well it was setup as a crypto containment board.

>>182581
ahahaha you made my day anon

>>184648

BitTards can't handle that level of economic thinking, bro.

>>182525
yes, it won't be around in 10-20 years, but holy shit is it going to be big in like 5 years

>>184802
>implying he didn't already take it
>implying he paid double to keep Steve Jobs from getting some so he could short AAPL when it hit 700

>>184593
That's why I said that markets with elastic demand start dying out. Obviously inelastic markets are generally unaffected until the deflationary trap causes a depression that expands on the rest of the economy.

>>184825
Actually electronics' prices are steadilly inflating relative to production growth. Older electronics are deflating in price because of the substitution effect. That's normal and has nothing to do with a deflationary trap.

A deflationary trap is that a car costs 10.000$ today and you know that it will cost 7.500 in a week regardless of the production of a new model and then 5.000$ in another week. We're talking about the new cars' prices deflating because if their price was kept the same there would simply not be enough currency to buy them.

At that point currency becomes sort of like a bond with its value constantly increasing. You are insane to buy anything with it, especially considering that your debt is also substantively inflated.

>>182581
>Guess what else won't be around in 10-20 years..
>Warren Fucking Buffet

Haha give this Anon a Bitcoin