/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>18285056
Gold has scaling problems too faggot.

>>18285062
Gold can be used for various stuff. Only use for Bitcoin is drugs and moving money from shitholes like Iran or China, but even there it's hard to buy bitcoin with cash since shit like localbitcoin is getting cracked down.

>>18285056
whales will pump the price to get normie faggots on board who will fomo in at 50k, then we crash the retard pump with no survivors

Dude you just need to buy Bitcoin don't ask question aight!
I got a big bag of Bitcoins from 2011 that I am still selling on the market and there need to be more buyers.
SO FUCKIN BUY BITCOIN!

>>18285056
>he doesn’t know the plan
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jfx7PnMtCeY

>>18285056
>measuring a value of an asset based on its scalability
lmao what?

>>18285108
Now this is a believable answer although I doubt it's gonna go as high as $50k.
>>18285125
Again, the video doesn't address the technical problems. It's just "cashless society dude, muh normies gonna be buying up bitcoin dude!"

>>18285056
No one actually believes king shitcoin will reach 100k. Those are shills hired by bitboomer whales to get you to buy into their shitcoin ponzi scheme.

>>18285056
In a cashless society, tangible cash will be replaced with intangible digital cash.
Everyone’s wealth will be in the control of the banks, who will work as tax collectors for governments.
You will no longer have the freedom to store your wealth outside the system.
Governments can impose Negative Interest Rates (NIRP) on your money. Which means, government can confiscate your wealth from bank deposits whenever they want.
You will be an easy victim for all bank bail-in scenarios. You will face all loses if your bank goes bankrupt.
Governments can cause inflation or deflation more easily with the saver having no ability to even react.
Your money might be set to "expire" and be worthless if not spent in specific ways or by specific times.
Government can block(boycott, off-chain) you out of the cashless system or confiscate all your wealth with a click of a button.
Government will be able to watch and track all your savings, income information and transaction records through a centralized transaction log a.k.a blockchain.
Your wealth will be more vulnerable to fraud, scams and hacking that could destroy your life savings in seconds. Online data breaches is already expected to reach $2.1 trillion by 2022....
Governments and corporations can use data mining to create consumer profiles based on their spending patterns. Thus your eating and spending habits will be 24/7 in strict surveillance.
The aged, poor or near poor population neither have the power nor knowledge to understand this high-tech cashless system. Their insecure wealth will become easy target for hackers and cyber criminals.
People will become literally helpless with no control over the wealth that they once owned.

>>18285176
Bitcoin's "value" to me is that you can send money cross border or just generally send money without a middle man. Its price is basically backed up by the demand for that "value" which is mainly used for criminal/illegal purposes since you can't buy drugs via your bank account. The demand, however, is nowhere near justifiable to the price of Bitcoin being even over $1k(maybe even less than that). When the transaction aka actual demand gets higher for Bitcoin, the fees get ridiculous and thus the waiting times grow as well. It can't get more "real" demand since it can't scale and I'm pretty sure 99% of transactions aren't over $100k where the person doesn't care that the fee is $50 and has to wait 30min - 2hours. In an "ideal" scenario, Bitcoin would scale, thus people could start to use it everyday and slowly start replacing fiat which would organically create a demand for bitcoin and thus slowly drive the price up.

>>18285056
it's because 100k are the next 10k

>>18285221
You are talking about basic shit that most autists here know about. If you don't buy bitcoin with cash, your wallet can be tracked easily especially in your scenario where the gov has so much control. Buying Bitcoin with cash is near impossible nowadays and will be even more impossible when cash is being fazed out in the very near future.

There’s no scalability problem retard

>>18285383
Enlighten me please

>>18285056
you wouldn't understand

>>18285415
Go ahead and try

Crypto to headless stock market. More of a zombie than AMC stock. Why is BTC going up? Someone is buying! Why are they buying? Because maybe more people will buy it and I can sell it before the final dump!

Do I want to use it as a currency? Do I hope the world gets in a state where it because the main currency? Oh fuck no! That would me we are in fucking WW3 America has fallen scenario in which case the entire world is fucked.

See this? This is a Bitcoin kiosk popping up around the world. Next to ATM which are for idiots who like pay 2 dollars to be handed their own money. These Bitcoin kiosks are the zoomer version of those red lottery ticket machines that welfare people dump their monthly gibbes into every 1st of the month.
Bitcoin, COMING TO A LIQUOR STORE NEAR YOU! Are you excited bitty? Be sure to see your local Bitcoin Kiosk at Wallgreens!

>>18285377
>most autists here know about.
you fucking wish

>>18285056
It's not. It's already dead. Halving is just the final nail in the coffin.

>>18285437
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTf5j9LDObk
either you feel it or you don't, unironically
the target is 250k btw

>>18285315
$5 transactions are still (it's around $0.5 to $1 now) are are still much less than 7% global average of remittance cost. That's $70 for every $1000 you send. Not to mention that it's much faster. Anyone worth his salt would use other cryptocurrencies like XRP, LTC or even ETH to minimize cost and confirmation time. Also, analyses done show that around 1% of total bitcoin transaction have illicit background. But regardless, these qualities pale to the value BTC first mover advantage has. It's regarded as a digital gold and as the dominant currency, it is paired against other cryptocurrencies on all exchanges. When you get on an exchange, what do you buy first? You need to exchange fiat for BTC before you can buy any other shitcoin.

>>18285482
Use to feel it 3 years ago when I used Bitcoin, but after 2017 transaction fiasco it was clear this shit is not going anywhere unless whales want to pump it. There's a better chance Chainlink getting its meme oracle network up then Bitcoin hitting $20k again(unless inflation helps).

>>18285221
>Governments can impose Negative Interest Rates (NIRP) on your money. Which means, government can confiscate your wealth from bank deposits whenever they want.

except that's not how it works cryptofag. that isn't how any of this works

>>18285056
Because the NANO network is the real lightning implementation.

>>18285056
You need to think that BTC is more of a bank, another currency will do the transactions on some kind of sidechain. Maybe some newer gen crypto. It's digital gold not for normies but for faggots.

>>18285056
Bitcoin only needs to be a reserve unit of value for a digital economy.

Bitcoin will be used on various DeFi platforms, if the stock market crashes people will be able to lend their BTC, earn interest, etc.

Tokenization of assets will only ramp up and will become integrated into the digital economy. Digital commodities like BTC and ETH will be traded for tangible tokenized assets.

Then you will have the digital infrastructure supporting the digital economy ecosystem: utility tokens for various underlying protocols powering these DeFi, exchanges, identity, tokenization platforms.

>>18285108
that already happened
it went to 20k
pay attention baghodler

>>18285491
$70 for $1000 is in shithole countries most likely(don't know exactly though). With TransferWise you can send with a very little fee even cross border(€ to $ for example). Again, you say these arbitrary shit like "first mover" or "digital gold" or "dominant currency" which makes it seem like it's some fancy sophisticated finances. Most top 15-20 cryptos have USD pairs. Binance has already a lot of USD pairs so BTC pairs have lost dominance. The fact that only 1% of total Bitcoin transactions have illicit background is bearish to me. I'm willing to bet that the other 99% of transactions are strictly moving funds from wallets to exchanges and vice versa, not actually buying anything(other than shitcoins maybe).

>>18285683
>$70 for $1000 is in shithole countries most likely
Who do you think makes up the bulk of remittances globally? Hint, it's not money from Germany to Macedonia. First world has developed banking and much better options for sending money abroad. It's shitholes like Subsaharan Africa that has 15% remittance cost (fact, you can look it up) and very few options who resort to cryptocurrencies. These illiterate folks who don't even own a computer, mostly smartphones have no idea what TransferWise is. Even if they did, it's not universally available. Most money (in absolute values) is sent to India ($82 billion) and China ($70 billion). Have you tried sending money to China? It's an absolute nightmare.

I agree that these terms I threw in there are mostly buzzwords, but it is what it is. Bitcoin has the longest chain, the biggest hash power, so therefore it naturally holds the highest trust. It's not the most advanced to be sure and never will be, but it's the most reliable. Longterm we will see what happens to BTC when projects like ETH come up with actual scalability and prominent use cases, but for now it's number 1.

>>18285596
>sidechain
again some meme word and nothing is actually explained how it will work. It's some vague "sidechain lightning marvel network".
>>18285622
You make it sound like some fucking sophisticated economics, but how can it be a reserve unit of value if it doesn't have any ACTUAL value? It's basically just "belief".
>inb4 fiat is also belief
With $ you need to pay taxes and if you don't pay them the IRS will come after you. If you don't accept $ for oil the mighty military will come after you.

I could buy the vision if Ethereum or Chainlink were to be the "reserve unit" since with Ethereum, you NEED ETH to get access to the Ethereum network to create/use smart contracts. If that is of value, then that creates demand and thus ETH has value.

Same with Chainlink. If Chainlink has its Oracle Network up and running and people need to use it, then they have to buy LINK in order to use the Chainlink Oracle Network. That creates value for LINK if there really is a demand for decentralised oracles. Bitcoin doesn't even have smart contracts.

>>18285538
the crypto and the traditional financial markets are a joke
everybody felt that the economy was going to crash at some point, but couldn't pinpoint the exact time, now with corona we pretty much know that shit is currently hitting the fan and most traditional assets are going to be re-/devalued
most bitcoin is in the hands of the whales, they will simply pump it at some point and both the halving as well as the economic regession can be used to cover it up
the herd mentality sets in and people start to fomo, whales start dumping while new money flow into the system
bitcoin reaches $250k and then promptly falls back to $180k, whales buy their shares back and keep the coin at a stable level of $200k
they don't even have to risk anything since they own 95% of the supply and can move the market anyway they want
bitcoin is still a useless piece of shit but nobody cares
chainlink reaches $1000 due bitcoins price
spergs here piss themselves in joy because the prophecy got fulfilled
you can find me on a beach in the caribic drinking pina colada and pumping this song before taking my board and heading into the waves
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLom-87AmO8

>>18285804
I doubt that Bitcoin is gonna gain any sizeable share in the third world since those illiterate folks won't probably even know how to buy Bitcoin, plus I'm assuming most of those transfer are from businesses in which case dealing with Bitcoin is gonna be a pain in the ass.

I agree that Bitcoin is the most reliable I guess, but its longterm outlook, for me, is too uncertain to actually hold any Bitcoin since if some other crypto solves the scalability problem(without compromising security), then there would really not be any reason to use Bitcoin.

>>18285056
it's a hedge mother fucker. when countries hit the fan all will be flooding in for the non-governmental store of value. scarcity in supply will cause the demand to push up the price.

>>18285056
Simple. Where do people put money now? They have no other option.

>>18285633
shoo bobo, shoo

>>18285918
>for me, is too uncertain to actually hold any Bitcoin since if some other crypto solves the scalability problem
I can understand that sentiment and partly share it. But BTC is a deflationary asset with relatively low supply. Of 18 million BTC mined, 4 million are in wallets whose owners have lost access (HDD failed, lost private keys, wrong recipient address etc...). The halving will decrease the reward by half next month. On the other hand, ETH is an inflationary asset with no cap on total supply. I think an asset needs to be slightly inflationary to be usable on the longterm due to DeFi and oracle insertion into the ecosystem. Inflation needs to eat into the transaction costs for $0.001 value tx sent over the network so contracts can be triggered. And because BTC is a deflationary asset, the price naturally adjusts upwards. It's like gold and I know it's a buzzword, but if there is a natural cap on its supply with most of them locked for future use I have no problems seeing BTC at $200,000 or even higher.

But I would never put all of my assets into BTC and forget about it for 50 years. Not because it might fail or lose trust or whatever, but because other assets can and probably will outperform it in that range. ETH is just one example where I can that potential, provided money skelly doesn't get any uppity ideas

>>18285564
>Old Laura is memorable
nuLaura is basically every QTE PS4 female life is strange/last of us/Juno protag

>>18286032
Eth is a scam, 2017+3 a no sharding, no PoS, fuck Vitalik.

Although, you just know this shit will pump with BTC.

>>18285898
This I can understand, although to pump it up to $250k, there would need to be A LOT of volume. I doubt big $100m bitcoin whales currently will not be dumping like crazy when Bitcoin is at $100k. At some point the normie volume to dump on will dry up.

>>18285941
I can already see everybody "flooding in" only to be greeted with 5 hour wait times and $200 fees. When countries hit the fan you would want to buy food, guns, ammo stuff like that maybe even gold.
>scarcity in supply will cause the demand to push up the price
the only demand is from from criminals and people buying bitcoin to sell it higher(this is the bigger majority). Not many people are going to be buying shit that is solely based on belief no matter how "scarce" it is. Scarcity only matters if that thing has any actual value.
>>18285945
Right

>>18286032
Well the way I see it with this deflationary aspect of Bitcoin is that unless Bitcoin has actual "value"/real demand/not just Ponzi type of demand, the deflationary aspect doesn't really matter. With Ethereum I'm assuming the inflation is lower than 3%? and that you can lend your Ethereum out at some % roi a year through DeFi to beat inflation and even make money. There's also the possibility of staking although I don't know when that will gonna happen. You could also say that LINK is deflationary. There are max 1b LINKs. Difference with LINK and Bitcoin that is important imo is that LINK is needed(or will be if the whole oracle network thing gets up and running and gets demand) to access the network since the nodes providing data can only accept LINK(kinda like you need to accept $ for oil or something like that), which creates demand and thus actual "value". It's the reason why I'm all in LINK for over 2 years now since I can see how it will actually have value that isn't this vague "belief" of something. I thought about buying some ETH as well, but I'm not sure about their development so I'm staying 100% in LINK still.

>>18286220
ETH's inflation is around 5% and will increase with the hybrid PoW + PoS staking. When PoS finally takes over completely it will fall to around 0.20%. Ethereum's roadmap should be taken with a spoon load of salt since it's been delayed before and will be in the future. I don't expect transition until 2022, maybe 2023. As for Link, is it really deflationary? On the long term sure, but with team allocation there are what, 50% of total supply in reserve? Probably a bit less now with all the expenditure and heartbeat alive, but until all that Link is in circulation with the team transitioning to service based company it's inflationary since they'll just be releasing tokens out into the ecosystem. Not shitting on the project, I think they're one of the most promising projects out there.

it doesn't need to scale when it is only accessible by the wealthy inside the citadel, stop assuming everything needs to satisfy the ~7.8 billion. A lot of you will not be making it, the end.

>>18285456
Shut the fuck up you absolute moron

>>18286099
the numbers are all fake
the big whales have the full control
the vacuum pump and dumping happens across a long period of time
they don't plan to exit into USD, only to accumulate more BTC while raising the social accepted price of BTC
they can't just pump it from $10k to $250k in a matter of days without raising questions
however, I'm having dinner now and won't come back today
just believe it's going to happen
it's not logically to you, because it's just fraud and we are just lucky enough to be able to ride the wave for some time

>>18286473
Well you could argue that Bitcoin is inflationary as well then since all the 21m bitcoins haven't been mined yet, but we know both of Bitcoin's and LINKs max capacity(21m and 1b) although Chainlink has more LINKs not in circulation, but then again LINKs that will be added will be used to incentivise and boost the network(afaik) which should make the price rise to beat out that inflation(probably, hopefully?).

>>18286517
Ahh yes of course the citadel how could I forget.

>>18286599
Well I'm assuming that will take at least 3 years. In 3 years a lot can happen and pulling that off isn't just gonna be a walk in the park. Seems more of a gamble to me. Just feel like buying LINK is a better risk/reward than hoping whales can fake pump bitcoin to $250k.

>>18285415
This.
>>18285437
No.

>>18285221
This is one of the best posts I've ever seen on biz

>>18285062
Gold doesn't chug tons of electricity just to exist
>BUT MUH STORAGE COSTS
Are nowhere near the cost to power an entire country like Switzerland
>BUT MUH GUBBAMENT CONFISCATION
Same can be done to your buttcoins. See the pedo that refused to decrypt his hard drives and went to jail for 4 year for it. They can jail you as well for refusing to give up your buttcoin wallets completely.
>>18285056
It will never happen. In order for it to reach $100K, it will have to reach a market capitalization of $1,800,000,000,000
That is an unprecedented movement of wealth that only happens during communist revolutions. Wealthy people around the world won't just give up that amount of money, they would be better off making their own version of a mostly premined pretend money.

>>18285221
its been well known that the government doesnt like physical cash why do you think there arent any bills above 100? its because its meant for small purchases not large ones. the government wants to track all fiscal transfers and bankrupt whoever they want. this is why private fungible crypto has and will always be a thing

>>18286727
Forgot to ask you about
>The fact that only 1% of total Bitcoin transactions have illicit background is bearish to me.
Why do you think so? Also, regarding Chainlink. Do you have any theories on why they're holding up with the deposit and staking contracts? They could have released it by now but I'm thinking it's because they're waiting on something. Perhaps with onboarding new companies or waiting for the whole sentiment to turn around.

>>18286566
Hurts don't it? Are you ready to be one of those proud BTC holders? Be sure to stop in April 1st and deposit that welfare check into the bing bing wahoo orange BTC machine! You might win big! Store in a Liqour Boss today! It's your Bitcoin, your way!