/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>18013147

cringe

>>18013185
cringe

>>18013200
cringe

>>18013147
This isn't /Mu/ newfag.

If only I could go back in time and put a pickaxe through this guy's skull on his 15th birthday...

You were so god damn right marx, jesus, help us.

>>18013185
>>18013200
>>18013219
>>18013229
>>18013284
coping bougies watching line go down

I'm listening now.

>>18013324
I'm not.

>>18013357
You should be. The tendency for the rate of profit to fall - and subsequent attempts to raise the rate of profit through financial engineering - means that capitalist economists will become more and more vulnerable to exogenous shocks like a pandemic.

You really can't consider yourself educated about the economy without reading classical political economists (Ricardo, Smith, Marx). And READ them, not just what people say or meme about them.

>>18013403
>You really can't consider yourself educated about the economy without reading classical political economists (Ricardo, Smith, Marx). And READ them
based and literatepilled

>>18013147
Stalin listened. Stalin was a Marxist through and through. How'd that work out?
sage

>>18013311
the real cope is you losers needing to raid to even get a blink of Marx in /biz/

>>18013452
I'm a /biz/raeli but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm economically retarded. The whole purpose of buying bitcoin is betting against the banking system; there is no bitcoin standard unless liberal capitalism falls.

>>18013147
The capitalist mode of production is obsolete.

>>18013452
What is with this red team blue team ideology?
Even if we are from leftypol that doesn't make us incorrect.
Also, jesus, if you think a handful of shitposters is a raid I feel sorry for you. You truly live in the shittiest time of the internet.

>>18013513
Fuck off newfag. Why do you raiders always say the same fucking thing?

>>18013581
Yet you losers always whine when someone disagrees with you in your home board

>>18013588
I first bought my first btc in 2014, you need to go back

It's funny that most people who hate Marx have never read any of his literature but have only watched stupid conservative videos from people like Stephan Molyneux complaining about Marx, who they themselves haven't read any of his literature either. They either read the Karl Marx Wikipedia article, or more likely, they googled "why Marx was wrong" and just clicked the first link without bothering to read anything more

>>18013657
Aaaaaaaaaaaand here's the "I bought/invested in X in 20XX" comment.

Are you mother fuckers reading a script?

>>18013673
fuck off and leave us alone you're not converting anyone with your spams

Daily reminder: Angry online NEET Communists will always be losers and failures at life.

As they believe the markets are "rigged" against the people, they do not participate in the economy; they do not try to open a business or get a job because they believe "capitalism is rigged" so it's not worth trying. They are poor when the economy is good and they are destitute when the economy is bad. They are quietly seething when people are profiting in the market, but when the market recesses they rejoice believing that it’s somehow a proof that Communism is better.

Every morning they fall asleep in their damp mother's basement mattress, they dream that their SKY DADDY COMMUNISM will miraculously drop from the sky and perform miracles on their poor life decisions.

>>18013451
He turned a backwards shit hole that got wrecked in three wars (Crimean, Russo-Japanese, and WWI) into an economic, industrial, scientific and military super power that almost singlehandedly beat Nazi Germany and sent the first man into space.

>>18013647
>Me me me

Let's not dwell on me and you. Let's discuss the fact that Karl Marx was totally right and you are totally salty about it. With out labor this world has nothing. Any rube could see that. Labor creates all value and with out it there is none.

>>18013679
are you mad that I am right or that I have more money than you? you bet on the wrong horse anon, get over it

>>18013749
Raiding is peak salt.

Also the first person to post a smug anime reaction image is the loser. That's the rule and you know it.

>>18013749
>Labor creates all value
read Marx
>Labor is not the source of all wealth. Nature is just as much the source of use values (and it is surely of such that material wealth consists!) as labor, which itself is only the manifestation of a force of nature, human labor power. the above phrase is to be found in all children's primers and is correct insofar as it is implied that labor is performed with the appurtenant subjects and instruments.

>>18013755
>I have more money than you?
Do not lie to me brother.

>>18013776
Marx was right

>>18013147
can i get a run down of this Op?

>>18013808
But none of this is proof that Communism is good. I don't know why you guys are high-fiving each other

>>18013147
>>18013311
>>18013403
>>18013581
>>18013673
>>18013749
>>18013808

no currency = no incentive = lack of variety in goods and services = handicapped technology advancement and a populace that's going to create their own market anyways until the entire nation adapts markets instead of this juvenile "profitless work because you enjoy it" trite. yes it's trite and you're dogmatic mongrel for pushing this fantasy trite

>>18013871
>no currency
Marx never argued that we should abolish currency

>>18013749
>Marx was right, labor produces things
No shit? You think Marx came up with that?

>>18013147
>the economy crashed because of greedy wealthy j*ws
>so let's give wealthy leftist j*ws who are even more fanatical about controlling people more power!

>>18013944

I am a big time capitalist and hate bolshies who want to force it now, but think Marx will eventually be proven right. Just not for another 500 years.

Eventually automation and AI will make the kind of advances he predicted and eliminate scarcity. But we also would need to have the rest of the world fully developed so that populations don't increase to perpetuate scarcity.

Capitalism is the best force atm/won the cold war because of its ability to advance technological development via incentives and patents.

It makes more sense as a true Marxist to give society the time to develop along the lines he predicted in his youth, than to be a bolshy and force it down peoples throats while scarcity still exists, making capital necessary.

Trying to force hunter gatherers into a rock market would have been just as disastrous as it is currently to try to force us into gommunism

>>18014087
This is literally just Chinese communism and it's already won

>>18014121
communism can't win until 3rd world nations stop reproducing at alarming rates. you outpace the improvements and wealth re-distribution it offers, a la the USSR.

>>18014087
>"progress" nonsense
nope, we'll be long gone before then, steady states never last long
praise gnon

>>18013147
Oh so my Marx thread gets me a ban but this is allowed to stay? Fuck jannies.

>>18014232
BASED

>>18013721
Capitalism is not "rigged" it works exactly as it is supposed to. Capitalists buy capital and labour power and use these to earn profit, profit is created through exploiting the labourer in the production process through wage-labour, a surplus of the value created by the labourer but not given in wages is profit. Now this is perfect capitalism, arguably more "progressive" than what we have now, a neo-feudal degenerated capitalism where many corporations engage in unproductive (in the classical sense) labour such as rentiering (real-estate, oil, etc) and speculation (finance, software, etc). For example in the software industry, obviously programming is productive labour but software can be consumed infinitely, therefore its price and wages paid aren't determined by labour-time or surplus value, but by speculating on IP. However it is because of this degeneration of capitalism that makes it stable, the perfect capitalist circuit I described to you simply isn't stable. Only through neo-feudal speculation and rentiering, creating super profits to fund a social corporatist welfare state, imposing humanist duties on the bourgeoisie and proletariat alike, can capitalism go on.

What you're seeing in the news, about the virus, is the negation of all of that. The duties are now so grand that the capitalists must grind their own system to a halt, even now the bourgeois state is beginning to criminalize renters and speculators.

>>18013722
lulz

>>18013147
cringe

>>18013793
Even if you’re growing an apple tree, somebody has to plant it and then pick it.

They want to ride this train until the wheels fall off, Karl.

>>18013581
What's the name of this semen demon?

I read marx, unlike /leftypol/. No, Marx would not support UBI.

>>18013147
We did. Some used their brains and discarded it as insane. Others didn't, resulting in democide to the tune of millions. Marxism has been the single most devastating ideology the world has ever known.

We tried a "softer" version in Keynesianism. It has also failed consistently in the same manner.

Socialism does not work. It never works. It doesn't make sense. You cannot economise without honest price signals. Socialism cannot manifest economy. It's just political distribution until inevitable collapse. Economy requires freedom, co-operative competition and sound money.

>>18013311
LOL WE MAKE MONEY WHEN IT GOES DOWN COMMIE FAGGOT

>>18013147
We did listen, and it was a complete failure.
The labor theory of value is demonstrably wrong.
Marx's evidence is cherry picked and anecdotal at best.

Capitalism is a failure but Marx was also completely wrong.
Also why are there so many fucking communists on /biz/
I was expecting to deal with ancap fags instead of liberal marx troons.

>>18013147
>s-sorry

>>18017375

THIS. It's funny seeing these threads pop up all week saying it's over when it's just as viable to make money in this market as it is in the bull market.

>>18017387
>Also why are there so many fucking communists on /biz/

a few pop up whenever the markets are down

>>18017141
duh

>>18014479
Keynesianism is socialism, not capitalism in the libertarian sense.

Labourers earn low-risk profit from their labour. A labourer cannot go bankrupt because his business fails, he cannot find himself adrift with crippling debts. At worst, he loses his job and must live by his savings and the charity of his family until he finds another job.

Capitalists earn high-risk profit from their capital (and most often also very significant labour). A capitalist who makes bad decisions can lose more than he has ever earned.

The risk, along with the complication of building initial capital, comes with the greatest reward. The capitalist seeks the highest reward, while the labourer seeks safety.

Consider: a labourer can earn nothing without the capitalist providing the liquidity for the resources his labour transforms. The relationship, should be symbiotic.

If you do not understand the risk dimension of the bargain between employee and employer, you are at risk of being fooled by Marxism, an ideology for suicidal retards.

Unfortunately for Marxists, their fellows upon entering positions of influence consistently kill their fellow revolutionaries and then proceed to use their powers to establish a protected elite, imposing even more dire oppression on the people. Marxism, after all, is just corporate socialism where corporations are all owned by the one dictator and called "government".

Marx was actually a libertarian but the retarded kind

>>18013147
fucking cringe
>>18017512
based

>>18013147
Cause my parents opted for migration to Burgerland with 10 dollars in their pockets instead of staying in a communist shithole.

>>18013871
>Communism is when everything is free
Cringe and illiterate pilled

>>18017460
>he thinks the line is going down
it's over retard, and it isn't coming back. the world is playing China's game now

>>18013700
go read some Professor Buttigieg before you insult anyone of us again

>>18013673
I've read him.
He was right about some things,yet I found his solutions retarded, and his bitching about Confederate slavery screamed "European talking about something they had never interacted with".

>>18017141
Of course he wouldn't; Many of these "Marxists" are just Liberal Hedonists who pretend they are Socialists because they support welfare.
They thought they could change the system from within in the 1990s and instead the system changed them; It is disgusting.

>>18013808
https://files.catbox.moe/dknh33.webm

>>18013147
Marx might be jewish, but he was right about Capitalism, although his proposed solution to it isn't the right answer.
Catholicism is the only substantial opponent to the great evil of Capitalism and Communism.

>>18018153
>Catholicism is the only substantial opponent to the great evil of Capitalism and Communism
Holy based

>>18017745
Good. Your parents must be strong people, I wonder what people like that think of western tranny commies

Without capitalism who is going to work tho

>>18013147
leftypol needs to raid biz because noone else will pay attention to them. just keep reporting them

the only good communist is a dead one

Labour theory of value, which is the entire basis of Marxist work, is bunk. None of his work makes sense without it. That is why Marx didn't publish anything after the marginalist revolution.

>>18013308
Don’t worry Comrad, the gulags are waiting

>>18013147

>>18013147
>Not knowing that a bull market can be a good thing for smart people

Even if you are a steadfast anticommunist it behooves you to recognize that Marx discovered the science of human history. Morever without his theories you can never hope to really understand the source of profit, interest, and rent, the nature of money and the dual character of value, or the organic composition of capital and the true cause of crises within capitalism.

>>18013147
>>18013308
>>18013311
>>18013324
>>18013403
>>18013581
>>18013673

>>18013147
Dummy, I listened to the entire books on tape. Here are the things I learned:

1. Doing any manual labor, especially as a child, in 19th century England fucking sucked
2. The whole of Marxism rests on proving that "labor" is an unseen particle of some kind that gets imbued into materials that are worked upon

Fucking hours of my life I'll never get back for that.

>>18013147
FUCK ALL KIKES. S TO SPIT. S

>>18017511
>t. never read marx

>>18014232
Based

>>18013147
No. Fuck kikes and fuck you

>>18013403
>You really can't consider yourself educated about the economy without reading classical political economists (Ricardo, Smith, Marx). And READ them, not just what people say or meme about them.
What are you talking about commie, i've read Marx, Like Jordan Peterson, i've read the entire communist manifesto. I know what Marx is about.

>>18013861
this is always where communism ends
>rabid followers disrupt, deceive, degrade, and dissolve anything and everything standing in the way of their system
>ruin everything
>replace it with nothing
If only they were capable of applying the limitations of certain archaic systems to their own ideology for a change, but they can't.

>>18017141
In fact, Marx was anti-welfare, except for the disabled. In the Critique of the Gotha program, he envisioned that each worker would be allowed to have access to consumption equal to the amount of time he worked. So if he worked 10 hours, he would be allowed to get 10 hours of labor equivalent goods.
>>18017387
>The labor theory of value is demonstrably wrong.
Wrong. Pic related.
>Also why are there so many fucking communists on /biz/
I was expecting to deal with ancap fags instead of liberal marx troons.
What is wrong with that? You have athletes who smoke, christians who fuck around. What's so crazy abouit Marxists /bizraelis. I like the further example: Andre Agassi was one of the best tennisman ever. Yet he hated tennis. I don't hate business, but i think it's retarded as a way to organize production.

>>18013147
>taking advice from a NEET who never stepped foot in a factory
I can take Hegel but Marx was an educated sjw who never had a proper job in his life. GTFO commies, this is a free market board

>>18017511
>The capitalist seeks the highest reward, while the labourer seeks safety.
The Capitalist loose his initial investment, which he would have gotten back many times if the company was successful at some point. The wage worker loose his only source of revenue, thus the very roof over his head, his food, his dignity.
The risk argument in favor of Capitalism is retarded.
Anyway, soon, we won't even have to have to good or bad Capitalism debate, since the tendency of the rate of profit to fall will crash the entire system. I mean crash definitively. I thought it would be for around 2060, but it seems with the increase of automation diminishing profit, around 2030-2040, the system won't be able to renew itself already. The more automation there is, the more frequent the crisis will be. It's possible that after the (((Covid-19))) crisis, we will have a fast recovery, and then again an other crisis by the end of the 2020s.

>>18016614
Giraffe.

>>18021527
(...) by the way the (((elites))) have envisionned that, and they want to replace Capitalism with some technocratic oligarchy. Some neo-feudalism. I don't think it will work anyway for them, but it's good to know that they want to change the mode of production and still keep their favored position. England royal family, for example successfully did their transition from feudalism to Capitalism. They were at the top in feudalism, they are still at the top in todays late stage Capitalism. It is possible that the current elite, the central bankers, want to do the same. They know the mode of production is switching in the decades to come, but they want to play the game so that they stay on top, even if the rules of the game change.

>>18013147
Why didn't that one CHINK not eat BAT SOUP

>>18013147
cringe