/biz/ - Business & Finance

XD

>>17939127
Based and bullish for btc

>>17939127
I know it's never going to happen, but why not outlaw buy backs entirely, or at a minimum outlaw taking loans for buybacks?

>>17939127
welp. desu i dont have much money. but i dont have any debt so i guess i get to start at zero

>>17939127

>>17939293
because its the outlaws that are in charge of making the rules

>>17939293
Actually, BOOM, simple solution. Outlaw C- level stock based compensation. Cash only.

>>17939127
yeah, we've known this since 2016

>>17939293
why not seperate serious banking from speculation?

because all that has been done already until crazy ppl came along and said, hur dur the times have changed, we dont need that anymore

>>17939127
>No fundamentals whatsoever playing a part.
if that was actually true then the P/E ratio sh..

>>17939127
If a total of x stocks exist of a company and the company buys back y stocks of itself, the remaining stockowners now own x/(x-y) times more shares of the company
Did i miss anything?

>>17939127
Well what growth was there? Consumer purchasing power went down since then, and only recovered somewhat during Trump, simply because wages were mostly stagnant. There's also no new markets for companies, China produces everything itself and only scams companies for their trade secrets while throwing them scraps to keep them coming back. How can there be economic growth? Who's going to buy all that shit? Even now you have companies not ramping up production, because they know the current demand is only temporary, and they would go out of business if they spent money on expanding their production.
Something has got to give.

>>17939409
Maybe if occupy wall street didn't let itself get subverted into a transsexual shitfest, things would have changed?

>>17939127
The chart includes non-financial corporations but does not include financial institutions?

>>17939293
They used to be illegal until 1982, then the rules were relaxed.
They're not going to be outlawed for the same reason we're not in the gold standard anymore.
Funny money and being able to pump it into your own stocks speeds up the market a whole lot and gives the people at the top more control to fuck with the economy.
I mean who's going to be calling for outlawing buybacks when a massive company can pull 100% or more growth a year?
It's shortsighted as fuck, but that's people for you. Got to get that quick profit.

>>17939385
Yeah I know this has been more or less public information for ages and even back in 2008 people were calling the forever bailouts and cheap money insane, but many people seem to think the market is fucked just because of corona.
There's this weird idea that we're going to rocket straight back up once this blows over.
The downfall of the debt market won't stop now even if the virus disappeared tomorrow and the more people realize this the better.

>>17939734
They should have just let the normal market cycle complete back in 2008 and we would have been more or less ok.
But no, got to get the fast growth and recovery.
This is one of the biggest reasons Millenials got so fucked. The halted market cycle never allowed crab market and slow growth, which would have given younger people time to jump in and start building their wealth.
I guess that's one big reason for the lack of buying power. There's a generation missing from the purchasing power equation and everyone is also full of debt.
That's what you get for kicking the can down the road and now is the time to pay.

>>17939750
Speaking of which, should we tell the commie homos raiding our beloved /shitcoin/ that if they don't cleanse their ranks of human excrement, they're doomed to forever be hacking off on their sad little containment site?

Probably best to let them never figure that out, right?

>>17939293
You are being robbed in slow motion. Don't ask the thieves to steal less. Expect them to accelerate the pace until everything is completely fucked up.

>>17939977

To be fair a New, New, New Deal is not really out of question and they could very well outlaw such naive practices. Even better, in the future, we could probably have built-in trustless contracts using a derivative of blockchain technology (not exactly as it is now since it's just a glorified write-only database). Regardless, if this crisis takes us deep enough into the gutter it's not impossible at all that everyone demands a stop to the insanity, even some of the people who previously benefitted from it.

>>17939293
A certain tribe loves inventing new ways to take your money. Don't worry, you'll bail them out when they crash. Keep slaving.

>>17939734
>ONE somethings gotta give
>TWO somethings gotta give
>THREE somethings gotta give
>AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
>LET THE MARKETS HIT THE FLOOR
>LET THE MARKETS HIT THE FLOOR
>LET THE MARKETS HIT THE
>FLOOOOOOOOOOOR

>>17939466
P/E is a bad measure when taken on its own, because you need to account for things like the risk-free rate. Look at the equity risk premium for a better picture.

>>17939127
Why is the european market dropping more?
We didn't have crazy buybacks, DAX is down about 40%, ATX 50%

>>17939293
loans for buybacks are the scammiest thing i learnt about this month, like wtf... surely its illegal to be in debt but do buybacks... nope

boomer remover needs to hurry up

>>17939127

Awww, look everyone, the doomer drew us a picture with his crayons. Hold it up doomer, tell us what you drew. You drew us all a big scary doom and we are all going to be doomed? Well that is very impressive Mr. Man.

Brian Reynolds talks about this in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9_bWbrYPKg

>>17939127
Great point. People are fucking confused about what is going on and you need to pound it into their heads that the bailouts started up months before the virus hit the news.

Ultra low federal funds rate = stock buybacks. Mass adoption of passive investing index funds = inflating prices indiscriminately. Buyback queens boost entire index, fueling more index purchasing.
The entire market went tulip-mania for itself. Most of these companies are worthless.
Logically we should return to PRE-2008 prices because that year itself was the peak of a bubble and we haven't made any progress since then, outside of creative new ways to offshore American jobs.
It's taking all my strength to hold out for an even deeper crash. It took a whole year for the last bottom to come in

>>17939466
How does multiple expansion disprove the OP’s argument? Multiples expand when people buy stock. His argument is effectively saying that stock multiples have expanded due to buy backs. Obviously, buy backs also increase EPS so they simultaneously offset expansion. But still, his argument that buybacks have expanded multiples stands.

>>17941697
Look up "Asurion leveraged loan."

Basically a phone insurer got bought up by private equity. The firm had the company borrow $3.75 billion in cov-lite leveraged loans and then used all of it to pay itself dividends. It's definitely going to default now and take everyone's insurance premiums with it.

I forget the exact story, but a major milk producer had this happen as well. Bought out, forced to take out billions of loans, all the loans went to the equity firm, then the firm made them declare bankruptcy. All the farmers got ass fucked.

It's not even the 1980s were you did corporate takeovers to strip assets. The ability to take loans was the asset.

Who bought those loans? JP Morgan, for hefty fees, chopped them up into collateralized loan obligations where it was mixed with other trash and split into traunches. That debt was trash but chopped up the upper traunches were AAA.

If that sounds just like 2008 mortgage games, but with debt, it's because it is. Except there is no home as an asset to bailout and unwind. The rich already took it in cash as "private property."

No go bail em out bucko.

>>17939466
Wow good to see it caught 2008 before it happened. Not.

>>17941987

>>17941987
Why do we let these psychopaths run the economy?

>>17939127
>>17939977
what do i buy puts on OP

Its always something.
2008 was toxic swaps, 2020 is buybacks.
These ceo scammers will always come up with some new scam.

>>17939127
It really sucks that companies care so much for their share prices. They could use the money to improve their own situation. Investors should just buy the dip and wait.

aaa

>>17939127
Seems good to me

Wow it's almost like I've been saying for over 2 years that the market is wildly overvalued.

>>17942402
Profits flat, stocks up.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

>>17942323
short term gains over long term health
which is why we see so many stupid ridiculous actions and policies in place at the brick and mortar level of large corps or business chains.
there's no sense or logic to any of it unless your looking at short term high gains as the only goal

>>17939409
>why not seperate serious banking from speculation?

Ask Bill Clinton about Glass-Steagall Act.

>>17942455
>it's almost like I've been saying for over 2 years
NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT YOUR AMATEUR ANONYMOUS OPINION NIGGA

>>17942541
More like ask the obama administration about the reversal of the Glass-Steagall act

>>17942624
My correct opinion you retarded monkey nigger.
Read a book.

>>17939500
Number go up, so boomer go buybuybuy! Then "tech" companies that fundamentally have no way to profit off users (ala fb without the cianigger backing) get these insane valuations.

It's like if sirgay locked his tokens in defi, then used the money to buy more link...a ghetto ultra-long if you will. There's no fundamental difference or any change to the sentiment of the project, but some wale just pumped in 75% the MC. That, but with "legit" or "non-scam" entities.

The FED has zero scenarios planned where interest rates rise naturally in a downturn. If we get stagflation then we're fucked.

>>17942660
dead set how tf are boomers funding all of this

>>17942660
If you want to go deeper read about Citigroups role in both Obamas and Clintons administration.

>>17942714
Off your bitch ass, and your children's trannyfaggot asses. Kill a boomer today and stem the bleeding.

>>17942714
>"Funding"
Here's how it works.
America used warfare and imperialism to cut up the world, then it showed everyone it wasn't fucking around with 2 nukes.
Now you either buy our funny money out risk having "terrorist attacks" run rampant in your country. What we say goes and no amount of little dick Chinese "soft power" is gonna stop Lockheed and Raytheon from giving us their best and brightest for our sick ass DARPA projects.

>>17939977
>They used to be illegal until 1982, then the rules were relaxed.
>They're not going to be outlawed for the same reason we're not in the gold standard anymore.
>Funny money and being able to pump it into your own stocks speeds up the market a whole lot and gives the people at the top more control to fuck with the economy.
>I mean who's going to be calling for outlawing buybacks when a massive company can pull 100% or more growth a year?
>It's shortsighted as fuck, but that's people for you. Got to get that quick profit.
Late
Stage
Capitalism

C A N C E R

>>17941124
basado

>>17941625
>Why is the european market dropping more?
EUR is kill

>>17941987
>I forget the exact story, but a major milk producer had this happen as well. Bought out, forced to take out billions of loans, all the loans went to the equity firm, then the firm made them declare bankruptcy. All the farmers got ass fucked.
+

>>17942134
Takes one to beat one
Only a chad can triumph over a chad
Betas gunna beta

>>17942153
>These ceo scammers will always come up with some new scam.
+

>>17942706
>fb without the cianigger backing) get these insane valuations.
+

>>17939977
>but many people seem to think the market is fucked just because of corona.
>There's this weird idea that we're going to rocket straight back up once this blows over.
only people that think this are boomers, idiots that are slow at gathering intel and MSM

>>17941987
>Bought out,
this is the real problem. Predatory ceos who do all this shit. its mafia tier. Take control of a bushiness runn up the debt and sell all of the shit out the back door. Unfortunately its more profitable to gut a company then it is to actually make things. its going to get worse as the labor force shrinks

>>17942541
>>17942660
>>17942730
>In 1999, at the urging of Summers and Rubin, Congress passed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, known to some as the Citigroup Relief Act.

>The Second Citigroup Relief Act, also known as "TARP", was passed just 9 years later.

>Citigroup chose Obama’s 2008 cabinet, WikiLeaks document reveals

>>17941987
holy based

Everybody knew this already, but asset inflation has been happening forever.

People need returns on investment, but organic growth cannot provide that, so the only option is to pump the price. And no it won't collapse and trigger Armageddon, there's no size limit to the "bubble" we are creating.

>>17942926
>big banks run our country
1962 called they want their mindblowing facts back.

>>17943008
>>17943011
everyone knew who wasnt a boomer. The board is getting flooded with retards now that everyone is home

Start posting the pink drawing faggots!

>>17943011
It is not my country Murrifat, but it affects me too. And our banking system is fucked up too.

>>17939127
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jfx7PnMtCeY

>>17939293
>why not outlaw buy backs entirely
I have no problem using profits for stock buybacks, especially after 2008. If companies want to make themselves more stable to prevent exposure to crashes again, then all the power to them. But this
>taking loans for buybacks
is downright scummy and should not happen.

Take Nintendo for example, back with the Wii U, their stock was down and people were speculating about the like Apple or Disney buying them. But Nintendo was sitting on a pile of cash from the Wii and did stock buybacks to both consolidate their company and increase their share prices to fight back any takeover bid. But then you have the likes of Boeing, who took advantage of the low interest rates of the past 10 years to take a loan solely for buybacks. That was money they didn't have and are now in even worse position.

>>17943083
>not in my country
See my earlier post here
>>17942825
We own you unless you're close enough to China or Russia to belong to them, and even their economies start to tank when ours does.

>>17943128
> But then you have the likes of Boeing, who took advantage of the low interest rates of the past 10 years to take a loan solely for buybacks. That was money they didn't have and are now in even worse position.

Nero what?! Those fine individuals should be forced to SELL all the shares they bought back!

>>17943347
why? they just strategically default and they keep everything and walk away from the laon

>>17943128
It is scummy, but from a business perspective the right thing to do. The cheap loans combined with an anaemic consumer purchase power means often the best use of capital is to simply invest in yourself (buyback).

Honestly the economic situation today sucks, but I really don't see any way around it. If we started putting all the funny money into people's pockets like liberals wanted, you are going to see inflation that makes post-war Germany look like a joke. Short of a technological miracle, the only way I can see is to cull all the unproductive people in scoiety...

>>17943157
>We own you

Alright poorfag

>>17943452
Just hand the global reigns over to the quantum super intelligence and be done with it. Humanity has run its course with it's worthless desires and the only future is for robots to terraform the universe while a select group of genetically altered superhumans solve the entropy problem.

>>17943157
>We own you unless you're close enough to China or Russia to belong to them, and even their economies start to tank when ours does.

You have to look at the big geopolitical moves over the last decades. Russia and China made strategic moves against the petrodollar. USA and its military power won't be able to continue to enforce their influence all over the world. First of all your own people are fed up with expensive wars (Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, now focus in Iran). And second those wars do not bring the hoped "stability" and influence due to a few factors (proxy wars with other countries, fourth-generation warfare, terror). 20 years and Afghanistan is still a clusterfuck and no "control" over it in sight. Same shit in Iraq. Your military industrial complex is has no answer or strategies for what happens after the war. I would even say they do no want to provide answer because it is a billion dollar industry and endless wars mean profits. Trump bought you a few more years with his trade war with China (I would even say decades if other countries join the decoupling), but overall the trend is towards losing power. You just can't sell this disaster to you population forever, even when it is a patriotic one.

>>17943515
>Just hand the global reigns over to the quantum super intelligence and be done with it.
I have a strong suspicion that the outcome will be:
>cull all the unproductive people in scoiety...

>>17943506
Cope harder eurofaggot.
America is the world's #1 superpower and no amount of pajeet, chink or ruskie conjecture is going to change that.

dare I say, the contradictions grow

>>17943452
>Short of a technological miracle, the only way I can see is to cull all the unproductive people in scoiety...

You mean with a virus?

>>17943546
>jets don't fly and bombs don't go boom unless you make smart investments for the future.
Enjoy losing the next 7 proxy wars while we set up iraqs government to give us all their natural resources.
The cope itt is out of control.

>>17939977
>I guess that's one big reason for the lack of buying power. There's a generation missing from the purchasing power equation and everyone is also full of debt.
>That's what you get for kicking the can down the road and now is the time to pay.

>>17939127
No shit Sherlock. Buyback and strong fundamental fags get the rope first. Don't forget when the time comes, as it surely must.

>>17943596
kek, if only, unproductive people (neets) are best sheltered from the coronameme.

>>17943633
Who is coping hard? Putin just raped your whole "oil stability" wars of the last decades with a simple statement. Of course it also hurts Russia, but it hurts KSA and USA even more. Take out your emotions out of the equation and look what is happening right now in USA. Oil price crashed, FED fighting deflation with nukes, election this year, risk of major unemployment... this is fucking fourth-generation warfare your billion dollar military industrial complex can not fight. There are no targets you could hit with a rocket. You have the EU, Russia, China, India, Brazil, Japan... the whole fucking world trying to enforce and protect their interests and their people. This inevitably means acting against the interests of USA because of the dollar as a world currency.

>>17943863
Russia can't win a race to the bottom oil war with the saudis you absolute mong.
Way to show that you have no idea what you're talking about as we buy all the cheap oil and become energy independent.

>>17941124
FLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR

>>17943546
Books on learning more about this anon?

>>17943983
kek

>>17943917
I though the Saudis needed higher price per barrel to not get French Revolution'ed by their poor people and Russians were used to running on fumes from 75 years of this asshole's (((>>17943575))) fuckery? No?

>>17944025

>>17944051
The Saudis need $40 to balance their budget, but they currently have a huge cash pile so they can go deficit for a long time (decades).

>>17942730
Give me some readings anon

>>17944051
Russians are running on fumes, but cost of production in Saudi makes the war pointless. It's as if russia is planning on sharing its reserves with the us and robbing the saudis blind or something.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_of_oil#Comparative_cost_of_production

>>17943917
You retard should seriously do your research.

>While Saudi Arabia can produce oil cheaply, it needs $83.60 per barrel to balance its state budget, according to the International Monetary Fund, as it is almost exclusively dependent on oil revenue. Russia needs only $42.40 a barrel.
>With oil under $50 a barrel, U.S. producers, including oil giants such as Exxon, are scaling back drilling as their profits get hit. The oil patch has already been shedding thousands of jobs and suffering through a surge of bankruptcies, and lower prices will exacerbate those problems.

I'm not going to explain to you how the current crisis makes the above statements even worse for Saudi Arabia and USA.

>>17942134
Because we vote them in

>>17944025
4th Generation Warfare Handbook by William S. Lind

>>17944096
>>17944131
Word. Thanks for the knowledge bombs guys.

Best thread on /biz/ presently.

>>17944140
>balancing a state budget
When has any self respecting world power EVER done this?
Oh that's right. NEVER.
Don't fucking reply to me you brainless cunt. Only poor countries under the thumb of someone else have to pay debnts

>>17942827
>Late
>Stage
>Capitalism
OMG, you're SO based! Let's just have the utopian market that never adapts to anything ever in which people keep manufacturing the same inefficient shit forever until the planet boils over because you're still powered by gas. Bread lines are so aesthetic, I orgasm every time I see them.

>sent from my ZX Spectrum clone

>>17939906
This. There's a lot missing here.

>>17944096
My understanding is their cash for social benefits (which many people in Saudi are on) is only about a 3-5 years reserve. These benefits keeps the Saudis happy.

Some Googling shows that this was the case back in 2015/2016 ( https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/johnmauldin/2016/02/24/3-reasons-saudi-arabia-is-so-desperate-for-cash/amp/ ).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1MF2KC - In 2019, their sovereign wealth fund (where they pull money from) was on track to increase. Interesting that their "record low unemployment" was at 13%.

>>17944106
Just do a simple Google research. There are countless articles talking about the corruption of Citigroup.

>>17944131
>>17944051
>>17944096
Russia prepared for this. It won't hit them as hard as in 2014. Also a huge difference between Russia and USA/Saudia Arabia is that Putin won't face major political headwind. He manifested his power last week. Saudia Arabia on the other hand is a powder keg. Powerful and rich people who all think they should be the next crown prince. There is a reason why MBS is arresting and seizing the wealth of so many people. And if we look at USA Trump is going to have a hard election cycle when recession hits, unemployment rate skyrockets and unpopular decisions will be made. Media lies tell us Trump is a puppet of Putin, but Trump kicked out of the White House would be great news for Putin. Especially when his replacement is the corrupt Biden. From a geopolitical/strategic point of view it makes sense that Russia keeps the oil price down and with the virus it hurts even more. Russia is bleeding, but others are losing blood way faster. And let us not forget that Putin quickly can boost the oil price by cutting output and eat up the market share vacuum due to bankruptcies.

>>17944533
>Interesting that their "record low unemployment" was at 13%.
do female count in their unemployment statistic?

>>17944263
>Only poor countries under the thumb of someone else have to pay debnts
For example you retard who is footing the bill of your government.

>>17944572
>Putin's a 8D puppet master
What if he's just incompetent?

>>17944603
I haven't lost a dime.
I've been fully divested since 2018.
You may however continue to correctly assume that all the steps being taken by the American government during this recession will, directly or otherwise, end up rebalancing financial power upward as lower wage workers suffer while higher wage earners employed by larger firms prosper.
Oh and you may also continue to cope.

>>17941751
fuck me, I thought that said Ryan Reynolds and got horrendously confused

>>17944647
If Putin is incompetent you still have other powers playing the game. China is the biggest one. I mentioned Putin because the current low oil price is a huge factor and the big players are OPEC, Russia and USA.

>>17944767
Your tax dollars are being used. Of course you lose when your government screws up. Not sure why you feel so attacked by the simple fact that USA has a harder time today to assert its power due to changed geopolitical factors and circumstances.

>>17943515
Unironically this

>>17943574
Deluded
Kys

>>17943574
People like you are unironically the reason the US is doomed

>>17944896
That implies that the U.S. is screwing up. Which they aren't.
Here's your (You) though.

>>17944572
Don't forget the biggest thing that will eventually destroy the US: demographics. A country with the demographics of Brazil will can not be a superpower. It also has massive single male problem similar to Japan, which, since it is Brazil and not Japan, will lead to more internal violence. China has one as well, but they seem to be doing a good job of managing it, though it is will be a major problem for them as well.

>>17939305
This. OP is having an epic reddit moment.

>>17944599
Apparently so from some Googling.

The female unemployment has jumped up since at least 1990 at about 5% to now about 21%.

https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/saudi-arabia/indicator/SL.UEM.TOTL.FE.ZS

>>17943452
>The cheap loans combined with an anaemic consumer purchase power means often the best use of capital is to simply invest in yourself (buyback).
>Honestly the economic situation today sucks but I don't see any other way around it
Consumer purchasing power is fucked because everyone under the age of 40 is a debt slave to the Dept. of Education due to college loans.
How about we return manufacturing to the 1st world and encourage more people to enter blue collar trades, so there is less reliance on the higher education bubble and resultant white collar jobs to make money in life.
You know, a proper domestic economy that actually has more going on in it than retail wageslavery and office work.

>>17944572
>Trump will have a hard election cycle
Trump offering UBI during the virus quarantine just increased his odds of re election by 10000%. Doubly so given that it's the democrats who oppose this plan and are trying to spring for high interest loans and checks to corporate leaders instead. It's so retarded it's almost like they want him to win.

>>17943686

>>17944096
Hey I have $40 i can lend them just hmu

>>17944318
not to be the fucking centrist in the room but surely there's a medium between 'bullshit buyback scams' and authoritarian state capitalism

>>17946872
Probably but you run a political campaign or grass roots movement on "sensible ideals" and not "fuck that guy over there"

>>17939409
This
>>17942541
This too
>>17942660
Dodd Frank was a colossal disappointment along with Obama's "stimulus" package. Then I had to watch that lispy fat faggot boomer go on every TV and radio show and LARP as an economic progressive and pretend he saved us from the great ass rapening of the American taxpayer.

>>17946306
Blame the post-Keynesians who have been taught to be terrified of deflation. Literally even 1% deflation is considered "dangerous" so you've gotta do everything to pump up those numbers.
God forbid that an economy shrink when it's not doing well and grow when it is, gotta get that artificial growth all the time!

>>17946872
Yeah but it's just you getting spitroasted though.
>>17947285
Obama was a stooge as much as anyone else. If you voted for Trump expecting change then you haven't been paying attention. There is no change, from any person or party, ever.

>>17943515
Turboautism.

>>17944572
Trump is going to get a wartime president bump and the dems power structure is dead set on electing a man who thinks you should raise literacy by playing a record player for your kids.

>>17947359
I sat out the last presidential election. It was a joke and will be again this year. I just vote down ballot offices and props.

>>17942134
because people are sheep that want to be lead
most people are weak and don't have what it takes to lead, those that have what it takes will loose all respect for the sheep and treat them like the animals they are
and the money and power they gain through their actions only reinforces their behavior
weak people think power and money corrupts people, in reality it's the other way around, these people attract power and money naturally, it's really just the consequence of their being

>>17947362
You better start thanking the A.I. hivemind before it actually gets here. Super intelligent beings can hold grudges you know...

>>17947413
>Voting
I'd rather get to work
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn

>>17942708
I never understood this. Can you explain?
Isn't the FED the one who sets interest rates?

>>17947374
Lol Trump is already wartime president. This genius motherfucker just declared war on the virus.

>>17947351
But you can't have deflation because we rigged the economy to put literally everyone from the poorest McWageslave to the Fortune 50 in debt forever!

>>17946306
while I somewhat agree with the pic, why do people in crypto pretend that gold doesn't exist and its purpose is not to preserve buying power? why is a shitcoin that goes down 85% preferable to gold for preserving buying power?

>>17947351
But if there is deflation you might not be incentivized to CONSOOME

>>17948437
Because it's easier to wire people BTC than send them gold in the mail.

>>17948437
It is not. You hear this only from people who are invested, but BTC showed us that it is not a safe haven. It could be one day, but if almost nobody using it there is no value in crisis.

>>17948711
I get this and understand its importance, but I don't see BTC being mature enough to work as a store of value yet. Unless I'm in a situation where my local currency goes to shit and at the same time, the government is coming for my shit, a gold ETF is still a much better option for preserving buying power. Hell, I can even cross the border, access a computer and sell my gold ETF there. It serves its purpose as a store of value and as a way to avoid government confiscation.

The way is see BTC being a better alternative than a gold ETF is if:
- the entire economy is going to shit and we see hiperinflation in all currencies
- the government can force me at gun point to liquidate my gold ETF, hence I would prefer BTC in that scenario, but let's face it, most of us bought BTC through an exchange that does KYC and the government could still force us at gunpoint to transfer our BTC.

>>17946872
Sorry rational anon, most people are only capable of viewing the world in terms of a good/evil dichotomy. Capitalism caused me harm, therefore capitalism is evil, therefore communism is good.

When this world burns to the ground there will be a second coming of communist countries which will inevitably result in catastrophic human suffering until they're overthrown and the cycle will continue.

>>17944096
>But then you have the likes of Boeing, who took advantage of the low interest rates of the past 10 years to take a loan solely for buybacks. That was money they didn't have and are now in even worse position.
>>>
> Anonymous (ID: HLdci1z9) 03/19/20(Thu)19:19:07 No.17943157▶>>17943506 >>17943546
>>>17943083
>>not in my country
>See my earlier post here
>>>17942825
it's the other way around fucktard. Russia only needs 40$ oil. saudi's 72$. the russki's have a massive strategical fund which they saved up when prices were high. Now they can keep this 20$ oil fuckery up for at least 5 years. saudi's can't win this

>>17950728
>not knowing how to quote a post
>AND not being able to read
Sasuga Anon-san.

bump because this is the best thread this shit fucking retarded board has had in while

>>17939750
>implying trannies were even on the national radar
>implying that occupy wall street had clear motives and achievable goals
>implying that the liberal establishment was willing to give even the most cursory support to the hipster brigade
>implying that OWS had even half the chance that the Tea Party did
>implying that anything matters in American politics other than who's president

>>17952416
>tea party
"Stop corporations from fucking us!"
"B-by cutting corporate taxes!!!"

>>17939127
>No fundamentals whatsoever playing a part.
Wrong. Without the fundamentals, the companies wouldn't be able to afford the buybacks.

>>17942455
Yea dude we all know who you are. NICE sarcastic comment, really cool

>>17945797
yea and give the women back their cottage industries so we'll have less female yuppies

>>17952291
Yeah but it also makes me feel stupid because I understand so little. Most of my mental energy and drive is put into work.
At least I have a salary ;_;

>>17949813
>Give us your btc now!
>sorry. Forgot the private key.
This is what happens with muh decentralization

>>17952650
I was a bit vague, I guess
when I said that the Tea Party had a chance, I meant of achieving influence, which it did thanks to generous funding by the Kochs and a successful propaganda campaign to convince voters that President Obama was responsible for the 2008 crash

although if we're being fair, the message was less "stop corporations from fucking us" and more "all of our problems come from being taxed, which is socialism; 'member the USSR, also Obama is Hitler unironically"

>>17946306
okay, if this is the case, why are crypto assets falling at the same time as the stock crash?

the price of bitcoin and the dow 30 both seem to have fallen by roughly a third and the smaller currencies are falling apart

>>17939127
Buybacks are like dividends. It's the sign of a good company health. Nothing wrong with it.

>>17948711
It's really not though.

There are services that make transferring gold/silver much easier than it is to transfer btc.

The only difference is the 3rd party risk to make gold easy to transfer - but that 3rd party risk has been solid since the inception of bank notes.

>>17943917
>as we buy all the cheap oil and become energy independent
Based moron!
Buying someone else's oil is the opposite of energy independence. Please tell my that you are some wetback that doesn't get a vote

>>17953488
that doesn't really matter at all, much like you could easily repossess your car or your house even if you were to lose the keys to the house
miners operate under law, so if someone is found to be the legal owner of an address in a court of law, the miners would have to comply and allow said person to take possession of them despite not knowing the private key