/biz/ - Business & Finance

It's not the stock market crash, it's neoliberal capitalism's complete inability to cope with something like a pandemic. Giving $1000 to everyone is a MASSIVE concession for the capitalist class, and this is only the beginning.

>>17916296
This. You'd have to be an absolute brainlet retard to still be defending "American" Jewish capitalism. And these very same people are the ones who are considered "patriots", who are happy to see their countrymen sucked dry by Jewish banker parasites.

>>17916230
It greated mass chaos and the deadliest war in history. This time the chaos will be much deadlier. With climate change feedback loops and continuing carnage. With International civil war and unsustainablity. This time there won't be a after war boom! I mean us commies are content watching you guys walk into this, not like nothing was every said.

>>17916378
When was the actual starting point of this type of parasitic banker capitalism
was there a time where there was true freedom? Was it the Wild West?

Because WW2 saved it by merit of providing a plethora of opportunities to the lower and middle class, who were then able to pull themselves out of poverty with government IOU's that secured them huge injections of money that landed them stable housing, investment materials, and the ability to pay for basic essentials for years simply because of their involvement with the war effort. The price of goods were also pathetically low thanks to overproduction and as such everybody was able to afford whatever they wanted for decades. As such, tons of workers became business owners, tons of business owners could hire tons of works, and things blossomed from there.

As of right now, 99% of military supplies are produced by an extremely small minority of corporate entities and there is no way to replicate the same explosive economic upturn we had in the 30's to 40's. The cost of goods has only increased in this time of crisis because businesses want to pull every shekel they can and hold onto it while the situation blows over, nobody is able to go to work (unlike before where jobs didn't want to hire people, now already-employed people are functionally restricted from their own jobs), income is literally frozen for millions of Americans, businesses being on lockdown for weeks (possibly months) will translate to billions in lost daily revenue, and when this is all "over" and in the clear, there will be no sufficient way to recover from this without either punishing the already wealthy businesses (which will literally never happen) or sucking yet more from the already struggling lower class (which will result in the US's poverty-stricken poor being incapable of living day to day). There is no solution to this downward spiral, and the response has been pathetically slow. It's going to be too little too late and devastate the most Capitalistic nation on the planet because of simple poor leadership.

>>17916296
PLEASE define neoliberalism for me

>>17916230
Because this is unironically going to be worse than 1929

According to your average right wing retard, socialism is when the government does something, so it did end in 1929.

>>17916230
obviously because WOMEN, POC, AND TRANSGENDERS were marginalized from leftist movements back then. NOW we have the POWER of BLACK people, WOMEN (CIS OR TRANS), and you CANT stop US.

>>17916296
>Pandemic caused the crash
Other way around

>>17916378
You all are just as bad as commies that yell "hurr those dictatorships weren't TRUE communism guys".

>unironically defending neoliberalism

>>17916650
kek this
/biz/ has always been a national sociaLIT board

>>17916230
>Why didn't it end in 1929 then you commie fucks?
They tried, and had their shit pushed in, were physically beaten, etc.

>>17916565
That chart is bullshit The s&p declined over 50% in 08-09.

>>17916647
Wut, how? It happened because some retard had the bat-and-pangolin surprise at the wet market, or because it's a Chinese bioweapon if you're so inclined.

>>17916230
>implying central banking isn't a core tenet of communism, and that the entire world hasn't been run by central bank communism for over 100 years

>>17916650
Well they were socialist a phase to communism. They betrayed the movement for there growing class interest and eventually moved the state back to capitalism. No respectable communist says atrocities didn't occur. Its merely that objectively we aren't any more violent than capitalist, being much less historically. Maybe if we could just be interacted with like people with opinions not cartoon villains it'd help discourse a lot? Nope its scaremongering from the start, from hypocrites with worse past's!

>>17916784
The market was on it's way to anhero with or without this minor flu. They're just playing it up to help cover for their fuckery.

>>17916230
It was an end of free market capitalism. 99% of today's problems are from the government

>>17916784
lmao, do you unironically believe that?
this crash is caused by decades of irresponsible central banking, and even if you don't want to go back that far, repo operations began in September last year, and the rates of 3-month treasuries started to decline as early as June
the crash literally has jack shit to do with any virus scare mass hysteria, but of course the people responsible for this financial collapse love a good excuse

>>17916828
Banking isn't involved in communism at all. Imagine just seeing the word "central" and your burger brain thinks communism. Lmao

>>17916230
It almost ended but FDR saved it. There's no FDR now.

>>17916934
>5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

>>17916991
WWII saved it.

>tfw titoist so all the "hurr durr central planning bad dumb commie" talk doesn't have an affect on you

>>17916919
If anybody thought this bubble was going to last they are stupid, no argument there, but this fucking virus came out of nowhere, industries like aviation are almost ceasing to exist overnight, if you think anything like that would happen from a bubble bursting because of the Fed fucking up then you're mad.

>>17916230
huey long died

>>17917071
of course the virus came out of nowhere when the elites suddenly needed an excuse for the impending financial collapse
suddenly the mainstream media floods everyone's zombie brains with it in perfect synchrony

>>17917071
Mass stock buybacks.

>>17917011
Source of that?

>>17917125
Lmao I bet you fucking believe in Qanon too you mongoloid

>>17917060
>all socialist countries shoot their own citizens when they try to sneak into the west
>meanwhile yugoswag government encourage their citizens to work in west germany and bring back their easily earned marks to feed their families
yeah tito was based as fuck. no wonder the country went to shit a few years after his death.

>>17917125
Are you telling me that 300-400 people per day aren't actually dying from this virus in Italy?

>>17917112
Was killed*

>>17916230
dude, when people actually start to worry about the system falling, thats the bottom.

>>17917148
that's directly from the Communist Manifesto, you fucking brainlet
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/Manifesto.pdf

>>17917194
yes

>>17917194
Tito is one of many examples on why socialism isnt a monolithic thing done one way!

>>17916828
>>17917011
>implying marx and englels didn't disown the manifesto

Those points aren't even meant to represent communism either if you actually read it

>>17917279
starting to think none of their critics read

>>17917254
Listen jorden Peterson communism doesn't end at the manifesto! Its ideology evolves long after. Even marx went back on a lot of the manifesto needing to modernize it...

>>17916622
>NOW we have the POWER of BLACK people, WOMEN (CIS OR TRANS), and you CANT stop US
Fuck, a man with a pussy wants to kill me.

>>17917254

>>17917458
The only person he'll kill is himself. This site is legit obsessed with trannies and I don't know why, if you're scared of a fucking she-male then you're a cuck anyway.

>>17916873
>They betrayed the movement for there growing class interest and eventually moved the state back to capitalism
Implying this time they won't betray it again.

My god this thread, leftists really are braindead, no wonder every single socialist country ends up collapsing or starving...

>>17917565
>The only person he'll kill is himself
The problem is not all of them kill themselves
>cuck
Nice random insult

>>17917658
China will surpass the USA during this crisis.

I am American and I want a CCP style competent state, not an orange daddy's money pussy retard. I'd vote for Xi before Biden or Trump.

>>17917741
What's random? If you're fretting about fucking men with vaginas then yes, you are a cuck. They are nothing. This SJW shit is a fad and nobody of importance cares.

>>17916230
>Doesn't know it ended in 1929.
The moment they removed gold from the currency they removed ownership. You can't pay a dept with a debt, you just can't.
You don't own anything, you have possession, but you've given the title away. You need title & possession for ownership. You might have a document that appears to be title, but it's not. You have a registration/certificate doc.
Very few actually bother to understand this stuff, its a huge black pill.
TL:DR private property is dead

>>17917889
Calm down, you look upset.

Ok how can I make money from this, fellas?
What is the gosh dang play!!!
Buy more SUTER or what?

>>17917582
You structurally change the movement so sucj actions cant be made learning from the past

>implying we're not always thinking about this and how to stop it!

>>17917658
You guys are the ones using the manifesto marx went back on.
May I add only doing so, so you can cope about OUR systems banking!

>>17917941
What the fuck point are you even trying to make you stupid motherfucker? You first said "oh no a man with a pussy is trying to kill me" which I replied to in agreement that trannies are unimportant, then suddenly they're an issue, which is it?

>>17916562
why
just google it you moran

Explain why we need a system that crashes every decade with the people needing to bail the capitalists out constantly. If you think this system is somehow rational and believe Reagan's and Thatcher's mantra that "there is no alternative lmao" you're cucked beyond belief

And if you like this system because it makes you a lot of money personally, you need to explain why the rest of society should respect that when the retarded house of cards collapses and people start losing their jobs

>>17918099
Also might I add that the Manifesto proposed a complete MONOPOLY of banking by the state, meaning that there wouldn't be any commercial banks. This implies that it at the very least is a different view of central banking than the one we find today.

>>17916230
DID SOMEBODY SAY 1929?!?!?!?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtOZJc2QvXg

>>17916230
The great depression wasn't the end of capitalism but it still lead to the greatest expansion of state power and welfare in the history of the nation.

>>17917896
What you described is a form of neo-feudalism not communism, and arguably capitalism has degenerated into neo-fuedalism as this neoliberal stage is so predicated on rent, speculation, and fictitious capital, just look at the real estate industry, IP and the software industry, and the practices of finance capital.

At this point we need Georgism to isolate capitalism before we can have socialism.

i dont understand why you guys are so fragile, the democratic party has already demonstrated that when trump hands out cash to save the economy, they'll criticize him from the right for increasing the deficit. if anything, trump being retarded liberates him from the ideological spectrum (except for foreign policy he loves israel lmao)

>>17916230
Our entire banking system was recreated after 1929 you actual brainlet.

>>17917254
Btw you realize this was a immediate action for the then and now of the mid 1800s not the end goal? So if its just a then and there thing not a principle if the end goal of communism. Seems you took it out of context!

communists are the mot braindead NPC's on the planet. They make Muslims seem reasonable by contrast

>>17918316
>not communism
I didn't put an ism on purpose, most countries are a mix of something. Point was that people think of (including Americans) as capitalist free America died in '29, now it's neither capitalist nor free.
No positive change can happen while people remain ignorant of how we got here & how we've been wronged i.e never going to happen.

>>17918214
Exactly marx at the time wanted to make state capitalism as a transition to socialism/communism. That doesn't mean communism is banks centralized. As that was clearly a in the now thing, not a end goal as I've already mentioned. That being said you now realize capitalist state banking, is different and of the capitalist system itself?

>>17916230
It's not capitalism anymore you retard. Bailing out a failing market isn't capitalism. It deserves to die and if you don't agree you're the left-leaning parasite here

>>17918316
This. We need to save capitalism from itself or else we're regressing to feudalism or chaos. The banking system has a chokehold on the entire economy. This is what Marx warned in Vol 4, but he thought industrial leaders would be smart enough to not get cucked by banks.

>>17918593
I'm not the same poster you were talking to anon. That one is probably too braindead to understand unfortunately

>>17918614
>Implying leftists are in favor of bailouts
is this the power of american education?

>>17916533
>poor leaderships
So you mean the kikes?

>>17918586
Sure I'll agree this is a type of neo-feudal degeneration of capitalism, but capitalism isn't good or free either.

>>17918659
What is the big picture here?

>>17918657
Capitalism's OWN FAILINGS are somehows socialism's fault. If socialism is capitalism now I'm a capitalist I guess!

>>17917209
He's not saying people aren't dying, he's saying the financial cunts are putting the blame of this crash on the virus, where as in reality we would have been here regardless of the virus. Only a bit later.
They're just not letting a good crisis go to waste. This is a perfect scapegoat for them to let the air out of the bubble and say it's because of the virus everything is getting fucked.
Ignore the debt and money printing, it's all about the lockdowns.
If the virus didn't appear we'd at the moment be talking about how the oil crisis is dragging DOW down to hell.
If it wasn't oil it would have been something else down the line.

>>17916230
Because everything's gonna play out exactly the same every time? Anon, your brains may be on rails, but the world ain't.

>>17916230
doomers will always exist
this whole debacle will be over in less than a year

>>17919034
If this were true then crypto, oil, silver and gold wouldn't be taking a giant dump in tandem. People are panic selling. Industrial production and energy consumption across the world has tanked as a direct cause of the virus.

>>17918772
>unit in charge of preparing for this called Ofek
>"oh fuck"
Yeah I think we're done.

I'm fucking done with capitalism and anything that remotely resembles anything Regan would like. I have no loyalty to communism but I'm not offered an alternative I'll take being executed by some communist commissar over living under reganomics.

>>17916562
woke capitalism

>>17919794
No one gives a shit about Reagan. Do you think /biz/ is filled with 60 year old boomers?

>>17916230
It actually did. The US is mixed market socialist now with welfare.

>>17919849
The democrat establishment are Reaganites.

Honestly the more funny thing is leftists thinking this gives them a chance.
Who are us working fags going to bet on when the economy ain't there to back us up, a bunch of ingroup nativists who want to deport and imprison economic and racial parasites or trannies and women who want to import more of them and want to put us into eternal tax slavery for their social liberal state now with less stocktrading bread & circuses?

>>17920003
>radlibs are leftist

>>17919440
I'm not saying the virus isn't a thing or doesn't have an effect, of course it does. It's fucking up the planet.
But the reason the effect is so damn strong is, because there's nothing real propping up the market and the virus could disappear tomorrow and we'd still continue down, because this debt bubble got popped.
This market is now tumbling down and there's no stopping it.
If for example we were in a real bull market and companies were profitable and didn't have retarded amount of debt, they would be able to make through this fine.
But instead a week into a lockdowns we see them crying for bailouts because they're fundamentally so shit and debt ridden, that they can't stay alive without constant cheap or free money.
Metals taking a dump happened during 08 too. It's about the liquidity. Oil is because of the Saudis and Russians having their oil war and Bitcoin was never any real hedge.
It's untested territory that's owned by the Wall St and it's treated as a speculative risky asset, which means people dump it.
So the virus has a big and very real effect, but the severity of the effect isn't because of the virus but because of the shitty fundamentals and we're going to dump for a long while to come.
The debt system itself is taking a shit.

>>17919849
I think the voters in America are.

>>17919061
kek

>>17920263
Yep. Every single leftist board and org are full to the brim with soclibshits and will attack anyone who steps on the tail of their multicuck holy cows of mass-immigration, family dissolution, whining about white straight men etc.
Even supposedly economics "class reductionists" will defend libshit ideas because some heeb entryist union once was involved in marxist feminism which makes the other kind a-okay and don't get me started on those chapo LARPerfaggots who're even more libshit.

t. unionized in a supposedly SocDem-aligned union and don't even know a single man in it who doesn't openly support the nationlists. Only the women still lean leftist.

>>17920281
>in reality we would have been here regardless of the virus
>I'm not saying the virus isn't a thing or doesn't have an effect, of course it does. It's fucking up the planet. But the reason the effect is so damn strong is...
These are contradictory statements.

>>17916873
>>17917971
>No respectable communist
Look, most of MY ideological bedmates don't support genocide, but we get our reputations for a reason. The ideology is more than just what it proposes OUGHT to happen, and more than the outcomes its adherents desire. Ideology has to be measured against realistic understandings of what WILL happen, otherwise ideology would be a matter of just clinging to the guy who can signal the utopia with the highest density of cummies-per-second on offer.
I'm glad that you guys work on your ideology, though. I'll say the same thing to you as I do my own bedmates as well as to the fucks who propose multiculturalism as a way to improve race relations: tweak it until it's stable BEFORE your force innocent people to die from it.

>>17916230
>you fuck little boys epstein?https://youtu.be/gCYjuX2-BHI

>>17916230
This board is nothing but broke pathetic failures at life of course they are communists

>>17916296
oh shut the fuck up fag. you're in our world now. don't go trannying up this board.

>>17920900
>how are Hollywood and Pornography connected to Media
Wow I dunno retard, almost like those are both subcategories of media

>>17921054

>>17921146
MIGA faggot.

>>17920603
Owning your shit is kinda the point! capitalist are way worse at it and are in full denial. Socialist have known these these things and have been working on it for decades. Not all but many believe every representative postition, will be democratically decided. That They'll be term limits and you can be removed viva direct democracy. Arms ownership will be encouraged, militias will be formed to counteract state power. There are many thing's that can change. Meanwhile capitalist think there whole past is free market lollipop land! They deny the real outcomes of capitalism and can't put together anything better. Meanwhile socialist have cyber socialism and many structural changes we've known we've needed.

>>17920900
Trannies are capitalism. Trannies are materialism. You are the tranny

>>17921189

>>17921204
Btw guys the identity politics "left" is a cointelpro cia invention to curtail the real left! Its honestly embarrassing though to see you equate real leftist with the flith of a sjw libshit!

>>17916683
I can't believe it's actually him.

>>17916562
Liberalism but only for jews and banks

>>17921307
There is no real left
There is no real right
It's over, none of this matters anymore.

>>17921307
oh good, you're my kind of commie
seize MoP, fuck the stateless classless meme

>>17916296
>he actually, really, unironically believes this crash is rooted in a flu pandemic

lol you fucking dumbass
you absolute cretin
you stupid motherfucker you
use your fucking head you dumb faggot

god damn, holy shit
Not even leftists should be allowed to be this stupid

>>17918238
all of those people are dead.
you and i will also be dead soon enough.
difference is somebody is remembering them.

>>17920581
They're not.
Virus is wrecking shit and it took us down and popped the bubble.
But we'd still be here even if it wasn't for it. It would have just taken another thing to pop the bubble, like the oil getting fucked or something else that triggered the fall. Regardless of the virus we're in an everything bubble.
We might not be here right now, but within the next few years easily. It's not chance that so many CEOs fucked off at the beginning of this year.
They knew the market was getting shaky and bailed before the companies go through massive crashes. They didn't know Corona was coming, but they knew the market was fundamentally fucked.

>>17916230

>>17919794
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/17/21184308/coronavirus-italy-medical-3d-print-valves-treatments

>Update, March 18th 5:30PM ET
>But in an interview with The Verge, Romaioli denied they’d received threats. He said the company had simply refused to release design files, forcing them to reverse-engineer the valve.

OH LOOK, FAKE NEWS SPREAD BY A FUCKING SCREENSHOT WITHOUT SOURCE URL AS ALWAYS

>>17921484
This. The pandemic just gave them an excuse to pull out the carpet. Everyone fucking knew this was going to happen. This market is like a cancer patient. We've known it was Stage IV since the Global Financial Crisis, but on and on the Fed and the government nuked the shit out of it with all their little tricks and fudged the numbers in just the right way to create the illusion of a cure. All the while though, we knew they couldn't just bombard the market indefinitely and the moment they slipped up or something outside of their control disrupted their perfect little science experiment shit was going the hit the fan. This shit is completely structurally oriented.

>>17921595
lol

>>17921595

>>17916432
Okay, commie scum. You say you will be watching, but you will be slaughtered too if trouble comes knocking.

>>17916432
The USSR paid less attention to environmentalism than the USA. Learn some history

>>17916296
This. The pandemic made it obvious just how weak and unstable neoliberal capitalism actually is as a system. Something that is only going to get worse once the full extent of the economic repercussions become clear.

>>17921764
Kekkeroni

>>17918206
But, don't you understand? Capitalism works. Not sure what "Works" means in this context. But it does still work!

>>17921764
>people dying because capitalism is unmotivated is worse than people dying because communism is incapable
christ, I hate capitalism with all my fucking heart but again, you fags are so bad at this

>>17918659
I know this is going to make me sound like a Chapo Trap House listener. But why the fuck are most american names so stupid?

>>17921904
>socialists btfo lol
Everytime a capitalist government makes a mistake, does this mean capitalism in general is a fuck? Every government regardless of ideology can fuck things up. The USSR was of course no exception (it broke up for a reason). Its economic planning was also substandard, but it's not like socialists haven't already thought of that and tried to make improvements. Cybersocialism is unironically very promising, especially considering the vast computing power enabled by modern supercomputers.

The reason we think socialism will save us from climate catastrophe is that the profit motive inherent in capitalism encourages a retarded waste of resources (that many proponents of capitalism seems completely oblivious to). You spend resources employing marketers to manipulate people into creating an artificial demand for completely unnecessary shit like fidget spinners, and then you waste even more resources producing those fidget spinners, and then you waste even more resources transporting the fidget spinners to customers all over.
To make things worse, companies design commodities to last SHORTER, because they fear saturating their own market (look up planned obsolesence if you don't believe me).

But this is ackkshually a good thing because of muh economic growth and job creation or whatever. No it's not. It's completely irrational behavior, akin to the Chinese ghost cities meme. It is production with no meaning and no purpose except increasing the wealth of some yuppie fuck. Capitalism is irrational and inefficient in ways most right-wingers don't even realize.

>>17917194
It was based. Too bad serbniggers destroyed it with "muh Kosovo is kicking us out" chimpings even though Kosovo was a minor barely-republic with no means nor wish to expell serbians. It was a most blatant false flag by Milosevic to hijack power and leech of the federation for himself and his relatives. They fell for it, every other ethnicity noped the fuck out as soon as the Kosovo shenanigans began ending with Kosovo itself splitting and actually kicking their serbian minority out. No other country has fucked itself so hard since germans. Brits might come close to those levels soon.

>>17922125
It works in the sense that it's a better starting point for an economic system vs. the alternatives, but outcome is a function of idea and implementation. Capitalism as it's currently implemented is this weird shit version of socialism for the rich and a completely inept regulating body that doesn't seek to incentivize good long term outcomes, but instead just does whatever the fuck lobbyists and bad actors want. And that's the problem with ALL of these economic systems. Corruption builds and builds until the system becomes total dog shit with an incompetent central authority desperately trying to cling to power rather than fix things and promote prosperity.

>>17922165
Anon, mistakes happen.
But being unmotivated to fix suffering for decades upon decades upon decades? That's direct culpability right there.
You see, even in the eyes of the law, inaction is often considered on-par with actively committing a crime. After all, knowingly letting something happen is a choice more or less equal to doing it yourself.

>>17916533
Good read, checked

>>17922355
>Its economic planning
>Cyber socialism
>Capitalism encourages waste of resources but socialism doesn't

Holy kek. There's some top tier delusion in this post.

>>17922443
>It works in the sense that it's a better starting point for an economic system vs. the alternatives, but outcome is a function of idea and implementation.
I suppose that is fair.

>And that's the problem with ALL of these economic systems. Corruption builds and builds until the system becomes total dog shit with an incompetent central authority desperately trying to cling to power rather than fix things and promote prosperity.prosperity.
Is there really no way to prevent that? I just find it hard to believe that all economic systems are doomed to eventually destroy itself. Call me idealistic, but I feel there has to be a better way.

>>17922554
>kek i have nothing of substance to respond with except liberal Cold War ideology
Engage with my arguments or fuck right off

I'm just dropping by to say that Communism won't happen until you accept race realism, build a racially homogeneous society (look at every communist country that could pull it off, they weren't "diverse") and understand that materialism is evil and that Marx bastardized the Hegelian dialectic.

Read Giovanni Gentile, he was the first and perhaps, the only real philosophical fascist. He does not outright reject Marx, he just critiques and evolves his theories.

A socialist society is impossible without a community of like people who are engaged in spiritual socialism (we aren't talking about the "soul", for the dipshits who will come at me with anti-religious ferver).

I encourage every leftist in this thread (and righties, too) to read Gentile's works. Fascism came after Communism, as such it gets to enjoy the luxury of being able to critique it. It is, technically, more dialectically advanced.

>>17922722
Russia was really diverse like crazy so that really doesn't hold.

>>17922753
Different types of white people and some Chinese people way out east RULED WITH UTTER TYRANNY by a hand full of (((Bolsheviks))).

>>17922558
>Is there really no way to prevent that?
Literally more democracy. Read the Dictator's Handbook if you want to understand corruption and how dictatorships actually differ from democracies

It's basically about this: the more people you depend on to stay in power, the more sense it makes to invest in collective goods instead of private benefits (bribes, kickbacks, etc) from a purely economic standpoint. You can bribe a lot of military brass with 100 million dollars, but when you're dealing with millions of voters, it's just cheaper to build a hospital or a new school instead of trying to bribe them all directly.

>>17922753
Almost all white slavs with similar backgrounds.

The outgroups were unironically killed. I'm not suggesting everyone needs to be blue haired and blonde eyed, just that they have a basic racial connection.

>>17917325

They read history books. The 100% failure rate of communism is a good indicator that it's a shitty ideology.

>>17916230
>The only alternative to capitalism is communism
If only there was some kind of third position.

>>17916296

>it's neoliberal capitalism's complete inability to cope with something like a pandemic

Oh no, the capitalist shelves under global pandemic conditions vaguely resemble socialist shelves under normal operating conditions, time to switch to gommunism!

>>17922842
???
I don't think your russian neo-nazi counterparts would agree that they're the same race as literal mongols, kazakhs and tatars.

>>17922846
The only way for more democracy though is to implement direct democracy. And I don't think such a system could work unless we massively decentralize society.

>>17922926
>capitalism has a shortage
<lmao not capitalism's fault try again nigger
>socialism has a shortage
<lmao socialists btfo forever
Why are people taking this seriously? You're obviously engaging in double-think

>>17922914
The only historical third position was a massive failure in every possible way. We either need a new position, or it's back to communism for a alternative to the current failed system.

>>17922937
Nah, it's just about shaping the correct institutions, extending voting rights to larger shares of the population/members etc and making sure those votes actually count (not saying that's easy though. It's not). Direct democracy is interesting though, but I haven't looked into it much.

>>17922165
>communism is incapable
Except it is capable. In fact Communism eliminated famine, which were a problem in Eastern Europe.

This is one of the reasons why I stopped being a rightwinger after getting frustrated with the intellectual dishonesty that plagues the right.

The anti-Intellectualism, strawmanning, projection, and bad faith argumentation from the right was off-putting. I started learning about leftism instead.

>>17922997
Nazism != Fascism.

>>17923042
at least you're unapologetically fascist, I'll give you that
most people refuse to admit their fascism

>>17923042
You're not helping your case here, considering the fascists fared even worse than the nazis

>>17923025
>Nah, it's just about shaping the correct institutions, extending voting rights to larger shares of the population/members etc and making sure those votes actually count (not saying that's easy though. It's not).
A large part of the population either chooses not to vote or has no actual awareness of politics. While I agree that the ideas you mention would help, I honestly don't see a way to fix that without radically overhauling the way democracy and society works.

>Direct democracy is interesting though, but I haven't looked into it much.
I honestly don't think it would work for a large scale government. But it might function in a regional/state government.

>>17923042
Fascism failed as well. Probably even more spectacularly than Nazism.

>>17923090
>>17923119
>>17923072

Mussolini didn't really follow fascist doctrine. He was far too pragmatic. That and he just wanted to be a demagogue. Plus, Italy was insignificant, nothing was destined to work out for them.

Only Gentile and a hand full of people ever took it seriously.

The USSR was unironically closer to fascism than the Nazis were.

>>17923175
I actually don't disagree with any of that
fascism is still an abysmal idea though

>>17923092
Yeah, I think you're onto something there. I think low-level direct democracy in a federation-type arrangement could boost voter participation desu. More autonomy would make them feel more in control, and thus make them more engaged while also enabling better governance over local affairs.

>I honestly don't see a way to fix that without radically overhauling the way democracy and society works.
Without a doubt. Things are this shitty for a reason, and any real change will necessarily be radical (and difficult)

>>17923225
Read Gentile, and know for certain.

>>17923175
Is your argument seriously that fascism has never been tried?

>>17916562
>PLEASE define
libcuck detected

>>17923250
Democracy is degenerate.

Most people are stupid, getting more people to vote guarantees that decision quality will be lowered. Almost no one educates themselves on voting issues and when they do there are too many bad actors preventing them from from discerning true information.

More votes equals lower quality outcomes. Democracy is just the tyranny of the low IQ and politically illiterate.

>>17916230
>Coronavirus crashes world's economy
>Saudi/Russia war tanks oil price

>See its Drumpf's fault, we should have elected Hillary

>>17923039
>Except it is capable. In fact Communism eliminated famine, which were a problem in Eastern Europe
That's a bad argument

>>17923336
>Democracy is degenerate.

Stop being anti-semitic anytime.

>>17923278
Yes.

>>17918206
>Reagan's and Thatcher's mantra that "there is no alternative lmao"
There hasn't been an alternative that hasn't ended in failure.

>>17923352
I love how you associated degeneracy with joos.

>>17923250
Thank you. But, to be perfectly honest, my ideas are mostly just conjecture. I don't know any examples of such a system, and have no clue how it would perform in reality. I should really try and study some more political and social sciences in the future.

One thing I can say with reasonably certainty though is that I don't think centralization is good for democracy. Too much power accumulating in one place has some serious negative repercussions.

>>17923374
Well, at least you admit it.

>>17916230
WWII is what literally saved American capitalism.

>>17923388
As opposed to modern capitalism, which is also ending in failure.

Every system, no matter how good, is going to end in failure eventually. It's been the case for every previous system, and it's going to be true for any future system.

>>17920603
>otherwise ideology would be a matter of just clinging to the guy who can signal the utopia with the highest density of cummies-per-second on offer.
Did you not see the massive shilling of Bernie Sanders everywhere?

>>17923346
The poster I was replying to said Communism can't feed people which is utterly absurd considering even the CIA admitted Soviet citizens enjoyed more calories than Americans.

It's stuff like this that makes people avoid right-wing politics like the plague

>>17922926
>c-capitalism sucks ass but it doesn't suck as much ass as the soviet union during war time!!!

not very convincing, pig.

>>17921307
>equate real leftist with the flith of a sjw libshit!
I still don't think it will work out, but if you put those fucks against the wall you won't hear a peep from me.

>>17923468
You're miss-identifying that as right-wing.

What you're describing is neoliberalism of the Democratic corpratist flavor.

>>17922443
Let's keep giving tax cuts to the corporations who are job creators, the wealth will surely tricky down.... to all those jobs they moved to China.

>>17922722
>look at every communist country that could pull it off, they weren't "diverse"
What about Cuba? Extremely diverse, one of the few communist "success stories" (not that there's a high bar)

>>17923534
Isn't Cuba mostly just Hispanics though?

>>17923454
>As opposed to modern capitalism, which is also ending in failure.
wishful thinking, communist

>>17923534
Cuba didn't exist in a vacuum, it had the help of the USSR. What ended up happening to Cuba after that went away?

Oh that's right, it went to complete shit.

>>17923556
It's like 60% mestizo, 30% white, 10% black

>>17916230
BASED

>>17923589
So,... Hispanic?

>>17923583
Even in the 90s it was still more liveable than almost all other commie countries which existed at any point in time, except maybe Yugoslavia.

>>17923534
Nigga cuba sucks

>>17923653
I highly doubt that, considering my aunt's side of the family all immigrated from there.

All they've told me is that it was total shit, and then it pretty much always was.

>>17923579
Has nothing to do with communism. All systems are going to end in failure eventually. Even if capitalism itself survives. The modern neoliberal form is going to end eventually as well.

>>17923734
>>17923757
Again I need to stress it was among the best OF THE COMMUNIST COUNTRIES, and it's a devastating indictment of Communism that a country as shit as Cuba represented it going well.

>>17923817
I'd settle for an end to neoliberalism.

>>17923844
Same. The entire thing was a massive scam that fucked up what was a reasonably working system.

>>17922355
Going fantastically until:
>hur dur defending capitalism is rightist
Fuck off, defending capitalism is conservative, republican, democratic and propressive. It wasn't progtopias that got fucked over by the industrial revolution, it was comfy trad villages, midwestern farmers, anything remotely resembling commune life, since communes only last when rightists are in charge of them.
More importantly, acting like the cutting edge of intellectual communists are all that matter when characterizing communism, but including the full gamut of capitalist "thinkers" down to the trailer trash is disingenuous. Pro-capitalist intellectuals are approachable and defeatable and you ARE capable of standing up to them and doing so on sensible, intelligent grounds.

>>17922483
you fucking niGGER I'M NOT DEFENDING CAPITALISM REEEEEEE
of COURSE inaction is bad, but critiquing capitalism because it fails LESS spectacularly at a thing than communism is retarded
WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU EVER CRITIQUE CAPITALISM ON ITS MEANS OF PRODUCTION

>>17923838
Except that's not at all true.

The USSR was actually pretty comfy. At least, by comparison of anything that Cuba ever was.

>>17923884
People like me wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for neoliberals.

Just remember that when you get the opportunity to line them up on a wall.

>>17923934
What kind of person are you then?

>>17923903
Anon i met people from cuba, my neighbor escaped from it during the 90s. He had to smuggle food into his house to feed his kids because the government wouldn't allow him more food rations. One of his friends went to prison for selling eggs to feed his children. Communism turns countries into shitholes.

>>17923957
An angry one.

>>17923972
No one is denying that Cuba was a shit hole.

>>17924016
a lot of people actually do deny that

>>17923986
You didn't buy recently did you?

America was still a serious country back in 1930s. Now it's just a bunch of shitskins looking for a quick buck.

>Why didn't it end in 1929 then you commie fucks?
You can thank John Maynard Keynes and FDR. Keynes' ideas saved the meltdown caused by the unrestricted free market and FDR followed his advice and taxed the wealthy to use their money to invest in the country. Keynesianism is only a temporary solution however, as capitalism will ultimately unravel with the coming mass technological displacement of labor that is the Fourth Industrial Revolution, among other things. Don't say I didn't warn you.

>>17923986
Not sure what that has to do with neoliberalism, but alright.

>>17924081
>You can thank John Maynard Keynes and FDR. Keynes' ideas saved the meltdown caused by the unrestricted free market and FDR followed his advice and taxed the wealthy to use their money to invest in the country.
This. It was a temporary solution. One that, amusingly enough, was ultimately torn down mostly by capitalists. Cause big capital literally can't help itself.

>>17924081
i prefer to thank james maynard keenan and franklin doobiedro brosevelt man

>>17924034
No, I was smart(ish) and sold 2 months ago. Got completely out of the market because I don't know how to game the system. Figured I'd just let it sit until I can buy blue Chip stocks at discount.

What really sucks is that I'm about to graduate, and all the positions I've applied for are on freeze. My wife has a medical condition that our shit health insurance won't pay for, and she's constantly in pain and I can't do much to help her. I wanted her to not have to work and being to raise kids.

But because some fucking rootless neolib Jew decided now was the time to make a buck j get fucked in the ass for it. I know the market will come back Anon, that's not the point. The point is they make it impossible to live a decent and natural life with all this shit. My wife works like a fucking slave, a date I could accept for myself but it's hard watching her do it.

>>17916296

Capitalism is nothing more than voluntary economic interaction. Taxes and money printing are by definition the initiation of force and therefore not voluntary.

>>17924168
>voluntary economic interaction
I take it that you've never heard of the enclosurement movement

>>17916230
A system that collapsed in the 90s means nothing but a system currently experiencing hardship is evidence that it will inevitably fall

>>17922981
>>17923490

Socialism has a shortage of everything, all the fucking time, under every conceivable condition. We've tried industrial communism (Soviet Russia), agrarian communism (Maoist China), communism with lots of ethnicities (Yugoslavia), communism with very few ethnicities (Soviet Germany), communism with lots of oil (Venezuela), communism with barely anything at all (People's Republic of Mongolia), communism with a funky head-of-state god emperor (Democratic People's Republic of Korea), communism without really any leader at all (Zapatista Army of National Liberation). Every time, it's just been a calamitous failure.

>>17924225
Failure by what definition?

>>17924093
Neoliberalism is why I'm angry, Anon.

>>17924213
It failing inevitably is pretty self explanatory. It falling right now is not a guarantee, but it does seem more and more likely.

>>17924246
Mass exodus, starvation, failure to govern effectively so black markets pop up for basic bitch goods like flour. We're witnessing capitalism buckle under a disaster, but communism is a disaster of its own making.

>>17916296
>Giving $1000 to everyone is a MASSIVE concession for the capitalist class

Most proponents of this kind of money are capitalists. A socialist would rather socialise the money to provide services centrally.

Giving money directly back to the people is about as capitalist as you can get

>>17924267
Oh, that's fair.

>>17924290
Why didn't the capitalists vote for Yang, then?

UBI is based, even fucking libertarians like it.

>>17924285
I mean, literally all of those things have happened in one form or another under every other system of economics or ideology.

>>17924290
>Giving money directly back to the people is about as capitalist as you can get
>system generated profit without any supply being used to meet any demand
>Capitalistic
More like post scarcity socialistic

>>17924315
The media hated Yang and hates the people. A direct transfer of money to the people is the opposite of what the bureaucracy wants, and so what their information gate-keeping friends want too

>>17924330
Not as consistently because of the political structure as communism. You have to go back to absolute monarchism for that kind of shitshow.

>>17924374
Capitalism in the sense that it understands that capital is important, and transfers of capital to individuals is the best for them is a capitalistic idea. Again, a socialist would run things centrally through the socialising of services and costs. UBI just helps poor people get access to the market easier

>>17924415
>Not as consistently because of the political structure as communism.
Evidence? I'm seriously, do you actually have any evidence for this? Mass exodus and starvation at least wasn't a issue for most of the USSR's history.

>>17924225
>>17924246
>Commie gets absolutely rekt
>retorts with "ok but define "failure".

pottery

>>17924486
I mean, it's a good question. I would argue modern capitalism has basically failed in everything it set out to do. But if you view the endgoal of capitalism as making sure the rich get richer, then it worked just fine.

>>17924463
>Mass exodus and starvation at least wasn't a issue for most of the USSR's history.

For most of Soviet Russia's history, perhaps. Ukraine would say otherwise, so would Poland, the Baltic trio, to say nothing of East Germany.

>>17924515
>Ukraine would say otherwise, so would Poland, the Baltic trio, to say nothing of East Germany.
Famines ended in all of those countries after world war 2. Going by what i could find on Google, anyhow. Same for mass exodus,

>>17924387
How did the bureaucrats get in power?

Oh right, low information voters and (((democracy))).

>>17924506
>I would argue that capitalism is worse than literally every single example of communism which proves marxism is the single worst thing that has ever happened to the human race in terms of overal death and suffering caused by the State

stfu faggot commie your lies and bullshit dont work here where you can get called out on your solipsism and general faggotry.

>>17924570
>Same for mass exodus

????
Here you go, moron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Bloc_emigration_and_defection

>>17924657
I didn't say that, anon. Stop trying to put words in my mouth when you have no argument.

>>17924668
I said mass exodus. Which mostly ended after 1950. 13.3 million people migrating over 40 year isn't that big.

Also, the more time passes the more obvious it becomes why anti emigration laws were necessary. Considering most former communist countries are suffering from a collapsing demographic due to mass emigration.

>>17916296
The banking tribe aren't capitalist.

They are socialist.

Hence why this shit keeps collapsing since they took control.

Take a look at the unprecidented, unbroken age of prosperity we experienced under the Gold standard.

The parasitic Jew standard is why they have been kicked out of 109 countries, reviled by philosophers throughout the ages. Even the famously secular Greeks were wary of the long-nose.

>>17916650
Yeah, except anyone with a brain can point out that controlling the money supply is diametrically contradictory to "capitalist" philosophy (per liberal/libertarian tradition).

Capitalists hate Keynesians. Corporate socialism is disgusting.

>>17924225
>>17924285
Lmao what a sperg

>>17924749

It ended because the Eastern Bloc put up border checks everywhere, most notably in Berlin and along the East/West German border, because people were trying to get the fuck out of dodge. This is rejection-of-reality-tier obfuscation of a losing position, dude. Super cringe.

>>17924840
>It ended because the Eastern Bloc put up border checks everywhere, most notably in Berlin and along the East/West German border, because people were trying to get the fuck out of dodge.
That's fair. Even if, like I said, I have no sympathy for those people. And not having those kind of laws in place pretty much doomed modern eastern europe.

>>17924822
Soviet union tried the exact same fucking thing and failed miserably. Capitalism is even better at being imperialists.

>>17924880
Like, again, if you want to argue communism "Does not work". Then I don't really see how failing to stop mass exodus through violent means is the same thing as it not working. Especially in the context of a modern world where mass emigration is killing countries in East Europe. While the methods might be abhorrent, they do still work.

>>17924840
>Bourgeoisie flee because they can no longer parasitize the host

Also, fun fact: Most people who lived under Communism want it back. Capitalism has been an absolute tragedy for Eastern Europe. Face the facts sweetie

>>17924880
Doesn't matter if you don't consider them good people or whatever, they were people who were being held hostage by a political system that eventually got so bad it was toppled one Thursday afternoon by a bunch of Germans throwing a party.

>>17924938
>Russians want their empire back

Yeah, really makes me think the big thoughts dude.

>>17924906
>USSR
>Imperialist

>>17924952
Again
>USSR
>Imperialist

>>17924674
>This. The pandemic made it obvious just how weak and unstable neoliberal capitalism actually is as a system. Something that is only going to get worse once the full extent of the economic repercussions become clear.
>Nooo im not a commie apologist you cant just look at my post history and arguments and calle me out on it nooooooooo strawman

>>17924972
Do you even know the history of the soviet union? I keep trying to find a foundation on which to debate communists but they don't seem to know anything

>>17924995
I don't care about defending communism. I just want capitalism to die. Also, posting weird antisemitic propaganda isn't making your case any stronger. It just allows me to dismiss you as a fascist nutcase.

>>17924972
>>17924993

Eastern Europe turned communist after having been occupied by Soviet Russia, because they were forced to, and afterwards they were obligated to bend to Russian demands for materials. That's an empire, whether you like it or not.

>>17925023

That one's just being a retard to take heat off their star debater >>17924914

>>17925046
>I don't care about defending communism. I just want capitalism to die. Also, posting weird antisemitic propaganda isn't making your case any stronger.
>Im not a communist I just want to destroy America and the western world also stop posting facts that's antisemitic

>>17924972
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Empire

>>17925077
This is only making me like communism more. Christian society is bad and needs to be destroyed.

Also, what facts? Weird quotes made by people that look right at home next to Charles Manson is not a fact.

>>17924938
Then why force people to stay? Wouldnt a communist want the burgeosie out? Why doesn't capitalism have to stop people from leaving at any cost?

>>17925184
>This is only making me like communism more. Christian society is bad and needs to be destroyed.

Ah, you're a Muslim. Explains everything, honestly.

>>17924822
Maybe cause they're so weak they can't handle the pressure?

>>17922926
>the only other option is communism
I think we're forgetting the third option.

>>17925195
No, i'm a person that thinks having your society be based on a bad fantasy book written two thousand years ago is insane. Same is true for Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and every other major religion. It's all literal nonsense written by humans. Divine law is not real, and it never was.

>>17925226
Monarchism? No, let's not bring that back.

>>17925184
>Christian society is bad and needs to be destroyed
>Im not a marxist I just want to destroy the west and christendom

Top kek. Not surprising since marxism/communism is an antinomian/sabbatean frankist ideology, product of Marx's entanglements with them in his youth.

>>17925276
I don't want to destroy "The west" ,whatever the fuck that means, at all. I don't even necessarily think all christian values are bad. But, like I said above, the Bible is a bad fantasy book written thousands of years ago by humans. You should not base your society on it.

>>17924749
>Considering most former communist countries are suffering from a collapsing demographic due to mass emigration.
HMMM, I WONDER WHY THIS HAPPENED

>>17916296
WE NEED TO KILL OFF THE CENTRAL BANKING SYSTEM
Anyone who disagrees is pozzed and retarded, from there we can debate to high heaven whether capitalism is better or not.

>>17925345
you need to be 18 to post here

>>17916296
Giving 1000$ to everyone is just a retarded idea, nothing more. It doesn't signal the end of capitalism

>>17922722
Communism is gay so who gives a shit

>>17925236
>>17925345

Ahhh, an atheist cringer. The problem with saying that Man is all there is, is that eventually a man decides he's the only one there is, and lots of people die.

>>17916991
>>17917018
Both of you are correct. World War 2 was the most direct resurgence in the American economy since 1) it revitalized the raw material production and a wide range of industrial tycoons due to the demands of war and 2) since all of Europe was basically leveled and destitute the United States was in a great position to basically rebuild the world economy. On top of that, the GI bill opened the way for the average Joe to revitalize the domestic economy with generous small business loans and a widening of higher education, the latter of which especially important and led to an overall raise in the value of human capital in the country.

However, there was still that ~20 year period between the war and the depression where one ambitious man (Huey Long) would have a very good shot at seizing power if the government failed to do everything they can to keep people working and keep the country growing somehow. FDR pushed the limits of the power of the Oval Office and managed to spend a metric fuckton of money and get it into the domestic economy; of course such heavy use of power was not popular, and by his third term began having significant pushback against many of his policies in both Congress and the Supreme Court.

>>17925365
Because people are always liable to move to places where they can earn more money regardless of the system in place?

>>17925393
Good argument.

>>17925444
Agnostic, actually.

>The problem with saying that Man is all there is, is that eventually a man decides he's the only one there is, and lots of people die.
1: I'm not saying that Man is all there is. What I am saying is that all major religions are memes invented by humans. 2: What the fuck does this have to do with anything I said? 3: How does this disprove the fact that divine law is nonsense?

>raise 800 million people out of poverty
>become the world's largest manufacturer
>go from one of the poorest countries on earth to a high-income economy by 2022
>become a scientific and technological powerhouse that ranks higher than Japan and France in innovation
>"DURRR BUT SOSHULISM NEVER WORKS"

>>17925345
>Christian society is bad and needs to be destroyed
>I don't want to destroy "The west" ,whatever the fuck that means
Bro what

>>17925629
The west isn't just Christians, anon. In fact, most actual Christians live in South America.

>>17925588
Hang yourself Ching Chong Chang Bang Kungpow Chicken
Make sure you make my new shoes quickly before they kill you
动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门

>>17925583

Memes are powerful, retard. When you make a meme that effectively says "there are no rules", can you guess what happens when people take it to heart? Divine law is nonsense, but it's exceptionally useful nonsense.

>>17925684
>The west isn't just Christians, anon
Go back to plebbit you faggot

>>17925588
China is capitalist.
They even have to pay for healthcare.

>>17925531
So you could say that they moved (well, wanted to move, their goverment didnt want to let them) from a communist regime to a capitalist one because their quality of life would improve with capitalism.

>>17925588
And all it took was implementing capitalism while calling it socialism

>>17925727
No, because they are still moving even now that communism has ended. Almost as if they would have moved regardless of what the fuck kind of government they had.

>>17925692
Memes are powerful. But they are still just memes, concepts, things humans invented. You can argue they are justified with sound logic and reason. But to pretend they are the work of a higher deity is both stupid and dangerous.

>>17925686
Eat shit americunt
>>17925714
No brainlet, read Deng Xiaoping Thought and learn about Socialism with Chinese Characteristics. Although certain capitalistic mechanisms like markets and private ownership exist in China's current economy, the economy is still state directed as a whole. Most of the largest and most important enterprises in China's economy are state-owned, such as China's steel industry which produces the most steel on in the world. China is in the primary stage of socialism which entails developing the productive forces and raising living standards. China's healthcare system is available free of charge to all and is currently being massively overhauled and improved. Read Deng.

>>17925727
See >>17925817

>>17925817
I don't have to eat shit I'm not Chinese

>>17925817
>Although certain capitalistic mechanisms like markets and private ownership exist in China's current economy
>certain
Most of the economy is privately owned.

>the economy is still state directed as a whole. Most of the largest and most important enterprises in China's economy are state-owned
That's called dirigisme, the French under DeGaulle (right-wing) came up with it, it's not socialism. The Nazis and Italians Fascists also had a similar system.

>China is in the primary stage of socialism which entails developing the productive forces and raising living standards. China's healthcare system is available free of charge to all and is currently being massively overhauled and improved. Read Deng.
Sounds like you fell for the chink totalitarian police state party line coolaid. Literally grasping at straws to justify why they did a 180% on Mao's "legacy".

Go read history and economics textbooks, brainlet.

>>17925817
>Although certain capitalistic mechanisms like markets and private ownership exist in China's current economy, the economy is still state directed as a whole
That's capitalism with a planned economy you stupid fucking retard, not socialism

>raising living standards
LOL

>>17925778
>Memes are powerful. But they are still just memes, concepts, things humans invented. You can argue they are justified with sound logic and reason.

When have memes ever been justified at all, let alone with logic or reason? The reason they are powerful is because they stand alone, and the viewer finds the humor in his or her own way. It is the same with religion.

>But to pretend they are the work of a higher deity is both stupid and dangerous.

So is playing with lightning bolts, but we get lots of use out of electricity. Religion is technology, you ape.

>>17925817
>read Deng Xiaoping Thought and learn about Socialism with Chinese Characteristics
Read Adam Smith

>>17925778
>Memes are powerful. But they are still just memes, concepts, things humans invented.

Nigger, that's all human experience is. You argue over these things like they are only important in tertiary ways. But Anon, I'm here to tell you they ARE what is important.

Reject materialism and embrace idealism.

>>17925879
Go stuff a genetically-modified hamburger down your fat fucking mouth then.
>>17925881
It's called Deng Xiaoping Theory you stupid fucking faggot. Why don't you actually read about the man and his policies instead of trying to project your stupid preconceived bullshit notions onto reality. There was no "complete 180" on Mao's legacy, he is still highly respected and admired in China today.

>>17925958
or better yet, read the Tao Te Ching
https://www.taoistic.com/taoteching-laotzu/taoteching-58.htm

>When the government is quite unobtrusive,
>People are indeed pure.
>When the government is quite prying,
>People are indeed conniving.

>Misery is what happiness rests upon.
>Happiness is what misery lurks beneath.
>Who knows where it ends?
>Is there nothing correct?
>Correct becomes defect.
>Good becomes ominous.
>People's delusions have certainly lasted long.

>Therefore the sage is sharp but does not cut,
>Pointed but does not pierce,
>Forthright but does not offend,
>Bright but does not dazzle.

>>17926001
No, it's called Dirigisme. You got BTFO, bat-eating subhuman shill.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirigisme

>>17925949
>When have memes ever been justified at all, let alone with logic or reason?
They are under a modern ideological system. People follow them not because of "Divine law". But because they believe in the memes.

>So is playing with lightning bolts, but we get lots of use out of electricity.
The good outweighs the bad. Religion is not like that. While it's effective as a means of controlling the population, the dangers it poses to society are too big. It's better to admit it's a meme, and find a new way to control the population.

>>17925978
>Reject materialism and embrace idealism.
Fuck no. I'll embrace both idealism and materialism. Ideals that are not rooted in this material world aren't worth shit.

>>17925904
You don't even know what socialism is dumb fuck. China's living standards have skyrocketed, this is objective fact. China is going to become a high-income economy by 2022, after it eclipses the US in nominal GDP.

>>17926001
>Go stuff a genetically-modified hamburger down your fat fucking mouth then
Better than eating fucking bats, Bruce Lee

>>17926029
Nope, it's called Socialism with Chinese Characteristics, you putrid, morbidly obese Americunt vermin.

>>17926046
>China's living standards have skyrocketed, this is objective fact.
SOOPA DE MORCEGO UMA DELICIA

>>17916230
>Why didn't it end in 1929
*Looks at Germany*
It arguably almost did; It took fucking Communists and Capitalists allying to prop the damn thing up again.

>>17926045
>People follow them not because of "Divine law". But because they believe in the memes.

Divine law is an end result of people believing in the memes for a couple millennia. You are looking at two hundred generations of entrenched memetic lifestyles, and all you can think to say is "the dangers it poses to society are too big." Nigga, it IS society.

>>17926057
People don't eat bats in China, but even if they did they'd still be more appetizing than the melted cheese Dorito locos taco shit you vile Ameriplasm shove down your fat gullets. Go shart among your now-empty Walmart shelves, pudgy mongrel

>>17926045
There is no material world, you fool.

And I highly doubt you've read any philosophy that's established the contrary.

You've read some Chinese esotericism and think you can take on the likes of Kang and Hegel. You're an idiot who fell for the Marxism meme.

>>17926136
>People don't eat bats in China
Cope
>>17926136
>even if they did they'd still be more appetizing than the melted cheese Dorito locos taco shit
Kek the chink commie diets on random fucking animals

>>17926114
>Divine law is an end result of people believing in the memes for a couple millennia.
It's the result of people believing a meme is the work of a higher being. Even if you spend a thousand year believing the same meme, people aren't going to start pretending it's divine law if the meme admits its origin is human.

>>17926072
I'm not American but you are a PRC shill.

China is a miserly police state with millions in extreme poverty and massive corruption at all levels of the State. Its economic growth is the result of capitalism being implemented on the back of dirt-cheap labour in a period of great liquidity.

There is nothing unique or special to the Chink economic model, it's called dirigisme, a term that was first coined during DeGaulle's government in post-war France.

Get fucked.

>>17923534
>Cuba
>Extremely diverse
????????

>>17926151
>There is no material world
I have more evidence for a material world than any other world. Sorry, but that's a fact.

>>17916230
This is bullish for Kleros

>>17926151
Kant*

>>17926155

Memes are works of higher beings. Higher than you are, at least.

>>17926171
lol way to take a photo of an under construction street. china is more based than you will ever know, racist boy.

>>17926179
You only have evidence of what your consciousness reveiles to you.

That's a fact.

>>17926203

Under construction since the great leap forward.

>>17926154
The video that went around of the woman eating a bat was filmed in Palau. Since Americans can't even locate their own third-world oligarchic shithole of a country on a map, Palau is a small Pacific island nation where the consumption of bats is common. The woman in the video was a Chinese travel show host filming a segment about Palau's cuisine back in 2013. Now go stick fentanyl in your arm and die in the back of your step-dad's trailer.

>>17926203
>under construction
With no construction workers, equipment and random bikes outside of stores still open

>>17926233
>"In East Asia, specifically southern China, bats are sometimes eaten and can be found in some markets.[3] Specific bat species eaten in China include the cave nectar bat, Pomona roundleaf bat, Indian flying fox, and Leschenault's rousette.[13] Additionally, the greater short-nosed fruit bat is hunted for medicine, but not food.[13] "

>>17926191
It's the work of society.

>>17926217
Yes. And that's more evidence than I have of anything else.

>>17926203
China is a dirt-poor, developing country, that only has a large economy due to economies of scale. (Largest population in the world)

Only a butthurt chink shill would try to refute this well-known fact.

>>17926320
Yeah? Society just spawned memes, out of some undisclosed oriface? Are you *sure* you're a man of reason? Because you sound like a dipshit being confronted with uncomfortable holes in his worldview.

>>17926171
You really don't know anything about China, you braindead American rodent. Half of your shitbox country is a rotting, decaying, post-industrial wasteland. Your economy is built on Starbucks, pornography, financial speculation and endless war. You incompetent sacks of adipose tissue are so incapable of producing tangible goods that nearly the entirety of your pathetic nation's medical supplies are manufactured by Chinese firms. China could cut off your country's medical supplies and kill off 100 million of your miserable pieces of dogshit in a moment's notice, just like your genocidal government restricts medical supplies from entering independent nations with crippling sanctions. The entire world despises your filthy, abominable country and one day the people of the world will make you parasites pay for your myriad crimes.

>>17916230
christ get these fucking commies off my board. i refuse to read this thread. OP is right and leftists belong elsewhere.

>>17925221

>>17926378
>The entire world despises your filthy, abominable country
I have a feeling their beef is with China these days

>>17916934
Fucking nigger. Lenin himself said that 90% of achieving communism was by initiating a central bank

>>17926366
>Society just spawned memes, out of some undisclosed oriface?
Society developed memes to deal with situations that arose as humanity evolved. Some died, while other prospered and spread.

This is literally basic meme theory 101.

>>17926378
The entire world despises China and its shitty police state. If the support for HK protests wasn't enough now we have the entire world (rightfully) blaiming China for spawning and trying to hide a world-killer virus instead of warning the world and trying to contain it from day one.

And I've already said I'm not American.
The entire world despises China and rightfully blames it for the Wuhan Cough Bomb.

>>17926433

The coordination problem, the one that religion helped solve? Humanity is still dealing with it, you retard.

>>17916230
It did, retard. FDR was the biggest progressive ever elected to the presidency, creating thousands and thousands of jobs and new industries with a snap of his fingers. The New Deal propped up the state along with WW2 production. We just need New Deal 2 and WW3 vs China and Russia, and we're set for another 100 years, perhaps longer

>>17926378
>just like your genocidal government restricts medical supplies from entering independent nations with crippling sanctions
I heard the US was doing this with Venezuela. Absolutely disgusting

>>17926424
Considering America failed to contain H1N1 which killed far more people than coronavirus has, I doubt it. Iraq voted to kick Amerimutt troops out of their country, and other nations are following suit, such as the Phillippines. The entire world despises you anthropomorphic piles of transfat for invading, slaughtering and subjugating the earth to your decadent empire. Thankfully, that empire is weakening quickly.

>>17926563
You heard wrong. The US provided humanitarian aid which the Venezuelan government rejected. It was shipped to the country anyway via Puerto Rico and handed over to the leader of the opposition.

>>17926563
Yep, Iran as well. Amerimutt sanctions have killed millions of Innocents all over the world for decades. Any nation that dares to defy the orders of the Supreme Sharter and stand up for itself is economically strangled by Muttland and its puppets. These sanctions are gradually beginning to become less and less effective however, as nations like China and Russia are flouting them and assisting nations caught in the crosshairs of Amerimutt imperialism.

>>17926617
Ah yes, "humanitarian aid" which was totally not weapons and supplies for the opposition masked as "humanitarian aid." Why offer "humanitarian aid" in the first place if the US supposedly didn't place sanctions on medical equipment entering Venezuela?

>>17926680
Because the Venezuelan economy collapsed in 2013 due to hyperinflation leading to 4 million Venezuelan refugees to leave their country and flood the rest of South America like an exploding pus-filled zit. Humanitarian aid has been offered since then.

Sanctions didn't exist until 2017 and those only covered oil not medicines.

I'm South American so I know what I'm talking about. My city is full of memezuelans.

>>17917896
Speaking of, I know for a fact that bonds existed during the time of the gold standard. How did they manage to coexist and how can that be conveyed to the modern citizen and investor?

>>17917944
Have some physical cash, physical gold, and a ready supply of cash to slowly invest in stocks and bonds. True diversification is across asset classes. That is how you hedge your bets.

>>17918373
I wish that the idea of "left wing versus right wing" would die in the coming decade.

>>17926763
It wasn't due to hyperinflation it was due to the oil price collapse. Hyperinflation occurred thereafter.

>>17922937
Perhaps we implement oracles to facilitate this decentralized direct democratic society?

>>17924822
How do you explain the isolationist period of the United States when communism first took hold in the USSR?