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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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17847287 No.17847287 [Reply] [Original]

Boeing, one of the cornerstones of US industry, is now down over 5 years.
Boeing has spent over $45 Billion in just stock buybacks since 2013. To put that in perspective, the creation of their most expensive failure that was deemed over budget was $32b. The 737 Max, the aerial coffin that can't fly, cost them $3b. EBITDA in 2019 was down almost 100% from 2018 levels and profit went down 77.02%.
And this is all before the giant coronavirus crash.

Will Boeing go under, or will the US taxpayer have to fund another bailout? Will people accept bailing out a bad company that focused on financial engineering over aerospace engineering and enriching shareholders instead of making a good company?

>> No.17847411
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17847411

>>17847287
Trump market manipulated the shit out of this company

>> No.17847502

existing equity holders can get wiped even if the govt does bail out boeing as an entity

>> No.17847548

>>17847287
>Boeing has spent over $45 Billion in just stock buybacks since 2013
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
EAT SHIT

>> No.17847593

>>17847287
Taxpayers should BUY them out, not bail them out.

>> No.17847905

The US government will never let Boeing fully die, they'll just bail them out, because they have so much missles and planes being used right now in the military. Also they're the only American commercial passenger aircraft producer, so lots and lots of pride for Americans on the line.

>> No.17847927

>>17847593
>Should buy them out
Sorry fren, you don't get the choice.

>> No.17847938

>>17847502
Can you explain?

>> No.17848001

>>17847905
what about jetblue? their stock is already half what it was worth 6 months.
Are they gonna make it? Is it good to buy them?

>> No.17848083

>>17847938
existing stockholders would get a 0
the federal government would likely inject cash and receive the new equity, and then sell it to investors

>> No.17848118

>>17847287
Boeing will never go under, it might crash and every single board member being executed and the US government would still save it.

It's probably the most safe US company there is

>> No.17848149

>>17847287
Buy gern

>> No.17848156

>>17847927
Have fun getting cucked over and over again. I'm NEET, you pay for my life. Taxpayers are litterly the biggest cucks

>> No.17848189

>>17848001
Mane I don't know, Boeing and Jet Blue are in two different businesses.

>> No.17848193

>>17847287
They deserve it for hiring subhumans and white people who let horses fuck them to death.

>> No.17848204

>>17847287
Buy knock-in options for Boeing.
You'll make so much money because they'll rip off the taxpayer so fucking hard.

>> No.17848219

>>17848001
airlines historically have been shit businesses. google warren buffet (or maybe charlie munger's?) comments thereon

>> No.17848232 [DELETED] 

>>17847287
HAHAHHAHHHA
THE OFFICIAL /biz/ DISCORD, COME TURN THE CHAT PINK WITH US discord gg xFuuSTZ

>> No.17848637

>>17848219
i'm not asking if it's a viable long term stock. i'm asking if you guys think it's going to recover this one. i'm looking at how it did in 2008 and it's stock bottomed out to 4.50 per share and then 2015 it jumped up to 27 per share. seems like a ridiculous return for such a cheap stock.

>> No.17848841

>>17848637
Yes. It's gonna recover.
You'll need good nerves but you'll make mad dish if you don't lose your chill.

>> No.17848928

>>17848841
What positions do you recommend?

>> No.17848966

>>17848841
i'm gonna wait for it to bottom out some more. hope for less than 5 per. even if it recover back to half it's 6 month value i'd make double my return

>> No.17849012

>>17847287
"If its Boeing I'm not going" jokes
737 MAX crashes
also pretty much everything they touch with space

>> No.17849025

>>17848841
maybe. but the coming weeks it will drop much more if nobody uses airplanes

>> No.17849127
File: 927 KB, 250x230, 1478825067269.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17849127

>>17847287
>outsource your software development to pajeets to save a few shekels
>they tank your stock with their incompetence

>> No.17849133

>>17848001
jet blue has more cash on hand than all airlines combined

>> No.17849178

it wont go any lower tho.

>> No.17849351

>>17849178
>It won't go lower

>> No.17849638

Boeing is too big to fail. World aviation will simply stop if Boeing goes bankrupt.

>> No.17850060

>>17849638
Laughs in Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier, Irkut, Comac and others.

>> No.17850204

>>17847905
>pride for Americans
Youre joking right?

t. US Citizen

>> No.17850289
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17850289

>>17847287
PULL UP
PULL UP
PULL UP

>> No.17850297

>Government enforced monopoly

Now we have no recourse. Should have had two major players like Raytheon/Lockheed.

>> No.17850333
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17850333

>>17850289
too late... too late!!!

>> No.17850345

>>17849178
most europeans airlines effectively mothballed everything. american airlines are still flying people around.

>> No.17850372

>>17849638
you know other companies can buy whatever assets of value they have right?

>> No.17850464

>>17850289
https://youtube.com/watch?v=W5Z-d1Zx02o

>> No.17850478

>>17847287
Boeing and Airbus are in a duopoly. The US Gov't will never allow its dog in the fight to die. It's a matter of national security, as well as economics.

>> No.17850514

>>17850333
trips of truth

>> No.17850536

>>17850478
Why not nationalize the company if its more of a national asset than a business?

>> No.17850537

>>17847287
Boeing deserves to be dissolved

>> No.17850569

>>17848001
Jet Blue is an airline company, not a manufacturer. They buy the models Boeing and Airbus make and stamp their logo on the frame. They operate the commercial side of it, they don't design and fabricate the planes themselves.

>>17850060
>Laughs in
You have to go back. Also, only Airbus is any competition, that's why Boeing and Airbus are considered a duopoly. It's also why the US Gov't won't allow Boeing to die.

>> No.17850591

>>17847287
That's what happens when you let losers given ivy league MBA's by mommy and daddy run companies. I had been warned to not touch Boeing since before 2000.

>> No.17850633

>>17850536
Because that's not how America works. Regardless of your personal feelings or mine, waxing philosophic about what's best for the country, that's not how it's going to go down.

>> No.17850806
File: 1.60 MB, 1200x3339, stock-buybacks-chart.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17850806

>>17847287
>Stock buybacks aren't market manipulation because uhhhhhhhh...........
>Stock buybacks are a better use of company funds than raising wages and strengthening technology/infrastructure cause uhhhhhhh....money on spreadsheet go up and CEO pockets more full....
>Markets crash
>Company loses all its "value" because the tangible part of the company hasn't been funded in the past decade

Every company is like this. Every time I argue with people that buybacks should be illegal, they never give a reasonable argument for why they should stay.

Buybacks
Should
Stay
Illegal.

They ruin economies and only benefit CEOs who can use buybacks as a way to cleverly convert company profits into an extra pay bonus for them and their buddies.

>B-but muh investors also get increased stock value!

Not when the CEO golden parachutes the fuck out of the company a month before a global crisis and tanks the value for his 9th yacht purchase.

>> No.17850868

>>17847927
Just buy them at the bottom and make allt he money you pay in taxes back and then some

>> No.17850885

>>17850806
retard

>> No.17850895

>>17850806
Economic growth is increasingly driven by finance instead of productivity. I think the only person in politics who picked up on how cancerous buybacks are to the entire system was Warren, and she's pretty much out of politics for good unless Biden picks her as VP.

>> No.17850936

>>17848966
>>17849025
Oh no, you won't hear me disagreeing.
I'm just saying that the scam is coming and that we gotta be ready.


>>17848928
Nothing quite yet unless you have a good grasp on barrier options.

>> No.17850969
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17850969

>>17850633
>Because that's not how America works.
Funny people seem pretty flexible otherwise

>> No.17851010

>>17847287
>Boeing run by engineers
>Decades of both excellence and domination of the market

>Boeing run by MBAs
>In less than 20 years an unbroken chain of failures and shrinking share to Airbus

Why do MBAs even exist when their main purpose is to take successful businesses built by better men, and then run them into the ground?

>> No.17851097

>>17847287
>Will Boeing go under
the biggest bail out you've ever seen is in order, they literally can not go under

>> No.17851142

are buybacks the boomer equivalent of token burns?

>> No.17851150

Would now be the good time to buy? Or do you expect BA to go even lower as corona evolves?

>> No.17851197
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17851197

>>17850885
Even in the face of failure, you refuse to give an actual argument. It's amazing.

Look at this wonderful buyback economy - an entire economy of monopoly money. Rather than building companies that have inherent value to invest in because of what they produce and who they employ - companies are built on how much money they can circlejerk between their investors (who aren't investing in the company, but investing on how much the owner of the company is willing to siphon away from the company and into their pockets).

>> No.17851268
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17851268

>>17849178

>> No.17851271

>>17850969
Do they? America is one of the most inflexible countries in the world. You kind of proved my point with your post - one of the only developed countries in the world without universal healthcare. Capitalism is almost a religious creed here, rather than an ideological consideration.

I wish I could short your opinion and make money off your retardation.

>> No.17851282

>>17848219

That used to be their stance but they changed it and invested in Delta.

>> No.17851334

i wonder what $1.5 trillion bat Soup tastes like

>> No.17851358

>>17850806
Cringe
Reddit spacing, reddit '''infographics''', reddit emphasis

>> No.17851360

>>17850806
Matt levine at Bloomberg writes about both sides of the buyback legality debate on Bloomberg

>> No.17851414

>>17849638
lol no

>> No.17851418

>>17849178
Hahahahaha
>Denial

>> No.17851468

>>17850806
>leave the buyback to me

>> No.17851579

>>17847287
Considering that Boeing and Lockheed Martin are the two largest government contracted airplane companies, the government will do anything to ensure Boeing survives.

>> No.17851723
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17851723

>>17851358
>Reddit spacing

How to tell when someone is a newfag trying too hard to fit in. Pic is a random screenshot from my old hard drive, "redit spacing" was never a thing and has been gaslit by newfags.

>> No.17851735
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17851735

>>17850289
WHOOP WHOOP
SINK RATE. SINK RATE.
WHOOP WHOOP
OVERSPEED
BZZZZZZZZZZZ
TERRAIN TERRAIN.
TERRAIN TERRAIN.

>> No.17851781
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17851781

more "reddit spacing."

>> No.17851794

>>17851197
when a company wants to raise cash they can sell equity
when a company is flush with cash, symmetry at the very least would suggest that they be able to purchase it
a company's management is best equipped with the knowledge of whether it's business is undervalued relative to other uses for the cash. further, management's mandate is to maximize shareholder value. therefore, if they think that purchasing shares will yield a higher ROI, they should be able to.

>> No.17851816
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17851816

Go back to Gaia! Wait, what the fuck is Gaia? I'm too young to know that site...

Go back to r4ddit, mods!

>> No.17851833

>>17851282
they also got fucked on ibm after warren saying he'd never touch tech because he doesnt understand it
losing it in old age baka

>> No.17851884

This is partly because we gave corporations immortal person hood.

>> No.17851943

>>17851142
Pretty much. Token burns aren't usually taxpayer funded though

>> No.17852196

>>17851735
Kek

>> No.17852237

>>17847287
Finally seeing the valuation it deserves!

>> No.17853626

>>17851150
>Would now be the good time to buy? Or do you expect BA to go even lower as corona evolves?
You need to remember that they're presently working on a project with NASA as well, and that that's been going horribly too.

>> No.17853757 [DELETED] 

>>17847287
Boeing lost 70% of its market value in 2008 in the 2008 crash, just to jump by 1000%.

Only dipshits that can’t read the tea leaves here don’t see what

>> No.17853923

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/BA/boeing/stock-price-history

>2008-2009, Boeing shares decrease from 101 to 29 per share, over a 70% decrease in value
>2009-2020, Boeing slowly climbs from 29 per share to 300 per share

Jesus Christ, those gains.

>> No.17853964

can't beat europower in aviation.
amerisharts...

>> No.17854156

>>17847287
they should go under, airbus is better, they dont make planes that fall down by desgn