/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>17834670
tbf, I'm not sure even Burgers would claim their 'health system' is anything other than a pile of capitalist dogshit gone berserk

>>17834670
>>17834717
We literally have more ICUs than any other country per capita, Europoors

>>17834717
Sure, it's failure by design. They feed us swill so we need health insurance so they can prescribe us poison.

The smug europoors who smugly say incredibly ignorant things are funny.
Everything this person knows about America is from Reddit

>>17834717
We have the best standard of care in the entire world and it’s not even close

>>17834717
We have the best healthcare in the world, unfortunately the majority of people cant afford it. If you get sick or hurt, you'll be able to go to the hospital and they will fix you up. They aren't going to just let you die in the streets. However, the bills after will hurt even more.

>>17834736
We'll still surpass capacity unless Trump takes drastic action soon. Obesity is as much of a risk factor as age here. And high blood pressure. And being a smoker.

>>17834813
>>17834832
It doenst matter if theres too many sick people at once.
This is the core of the problem. This super contagious shit is spreading like wildfire and the hospitals will be full.

It really doenst matter if you have one of the best health care systems in the world like Italy or France, its all about capacity.

>>17834877
This is true, no one is prepared for the onslaught of cases this disease will bring. That said, UShealtcaresuxlol is a meme for retards.

>>17834877
Agreed, but same applies to basically all urban areas.

>>17834717
We have the best care but the biggest racket as well

>>17834717
Agreed healthcare is a scam

>>17834813
This is the level of brainwashing I have to deal with from my countrymen. You think I can go out there and talk reason with these people? That most people already practice, "social distancing", and that's actually typical for everyone? That the media and television programs are entirely propaganda and the truth is that, what is considered out of this world, is actually very much part of it? It's a losing proposition. A fool's game. They sit in their living rooms all day, fat and inebriated, and they believe whatever the screen tells them to. No questions asked. Put a face and a suit behind a desk, say a few lies in English, and everyone believes it. No one has even the smallest amount of self awareness. If you try to speak out against it the mafia will be sure to tune you in as to who the bosses are. I pray to God that His plan be enacted.

>>17834717
For me it was watching a kid get horribly injured at a high school football game and everyone tried to load him into the back of a puckup truck while an ambulance waited nearby because he parents couldn't afford the $8000 ambulance bill.

If tomorrow is as bad for the markets as I think politicians are going to have to start moving to secure locations

>>17834902
Yes I agree, the US has a quality system almost purely based off how well doctors and surgeons are paid. Only Germany comes close for ICU beds per capita. Prices have gotten out of hand but some hospitals are generous and won't pursue bills sometimes. Change be it good or bad is inevitable to the system but the crisis socialized health systems are facing is something that needs to be well documented for the near and far future

The problem is basically this. If the disease spreads too fast, too many people will need intensive care.

Too many people needing intensive care means thats there will soon not be enough spots left. This is when some people must be turned down and left to die.

To prevent the disease from infecting too many at once and overloading the hospitals, society must shut down.

The spread has started and is probably accelerating in the US. Stop this or thousands will die because of the lack of medical help because of capacity

>>17835012
it's also important to slow down the spread so we can better research the virus and understand the risks. The UK for example is following a retarded "herd immunity" policy where they want to get as many people exposed as possible so that they can get their economy back to business as usual.

The problem is we're only now realizing that this virus can cause permanent lung damage via fibrosis (irreversible). It also has short-lived immunization (based on the limited evidence we have) so just because you get it now doesn't mean you won't be harmed in the future by it multiple times.

This flattening the curve strategy is the best course of action.

>>17835091
We need herd immunity sooner or later. The world is way past the point where this could still go away. If you shut down society for a month and the just open the disease will just start spreading again.

I dont believe in the reinfection meme unless it means its another strain.

>>17835126
>I dont believe in the reinfection meme unless it means its another strain.

It would be like getting a seasonal cold. Also there are already multiple strains in Italy so that's another dimension to the problem.

>>17835143
You are spreading misinformation

>>17834996
>If tomorrow is as bad for the markets as I think politicians are going to have to start moving to secure locations
I hope their bunkers are about as solid as their plans to contain the outbreak have been so far.

>>17834813
This is simply incorrect if you've been sick in South Korea in recent years

>>17835143
That means that shit will come back and fuck us over multiple times over the next years. Hopefully its milder each time

>>17835091
Note that lung damage is for the 8-12%, not the majority. The virus has three phases
>viral replication, causing cold/flu symptoms, most infectious in this phase even with no symptoms, most won't make it past this
>immunological reaction (you will need to be hospitalized), the virus causes the immune system to overreact, flooding the lungs with cells and causing a pneumonia, may also cause ARDS which is where the fluids in the lungs begin to leak
>pulmonary destruction (critical condition, needs a respirator), the immune system has gone haywire and will begin attacking your own lung tissue
>if the above doesn't kill you, it's being theorized in Seattle hospitals that the virus will attack the heart, almost assuredly killing the patient
Pneumonia alone can cause lung damage but phase 3 will severely scar the lungs.

>>17835176
FUCK OFF SHILL

>>17834813
>get sick
>call insurance so you can get permission to see doctor
>go to doctor
>doctor orders labs so he can make money before sending you to a specialist
>do labs
>doctor orders more labs
>do labs
>can't figure out what's wrong with you
>"what are your symptoms anon?"
>tell doctor your symptoms
>oh, it looks like you might have x
>"we need to get you to see a specialist so you can get treatment"
>see specialist
>specialist asks you what's wrong and you tell him the doctor said you have x
>"we'll need to do some tests"
>do more labs
>come back to specialist
>we are prescribing you medication y to fix your problem
>take poisonous medication that makes you more sick
>meanwhile every doctor you've spoken to has managed to extract a fortune out of insurance company

or my favorite
>get sick
>call insurance so you can get permission to see doctor
>go to doctor
>doctor orders labs so he can make money before sending you to a specialist
>do labs
>doctor orders more labs
>do labs
>can't figure out what's wrong with you
>"what are your symptoms anon?"
>tell doctor your symptoms
>oh, it looks like you might have x
>"we need to get you to see a specialist so you can get treatment"
>insurance doesn't cover a visit with the specialist
>doctor can't do anything but will gladly order more labs if you are willing to waste your time

>>1783522
or
>get sick

>call insurance so you can get permission to see doctor
>there is no docors because theyre all overloaded with already confirmed and critical cases

>>17835126
The point is to shut down and spread this disease across a year until a vaccine is ready. The hard truth is that governments expect us to get sick, it's inevitable. But we must stop hospitals from being flooded in this first 2 month span. The world can function when we're past the peak, since the virus is nowhere near as deadly as SARS. There's just too many people in the world for hospitals. The problem after this initial crisis is that 3rd world countries could be looking at a near genocide

>>17834736
only for rich people though

>>17834717
>>17834813
>>17834832
>US healthcare "system"
wat

>>17834813

>>17834717
We actually have some of the best doctors and facilities, it’s just insanely overpriced.

>>17835403
In the sense that Americans are rich relative to most of the rest of the world be default, sure

>>17835215
If you want to read the review of the paper, it's happening very publicly, you science illiterate mong

http://virological.org/t/response-to-on-the-origin-and-continuing-evolution-of-sars-cov-2/418

>>17834887
I don't disagree with you, stop yelling at me faggot

>>17835593
Sorry fren

>>17835403
>Oh geez oh man, I can't afford healthcare for $75/mo because I spend my target cashier paycheck on twitch thots

really want to start not going to work tomorrow, is there any protection I have in this situation?

>>17835614

>>17834832
>paying hospital bills before they settle for pennies in the dollar
Wtf

>>17835638
Take some sick days?

>>17835626
>Lung cancer from cigarettes?? Thanks for saving my life but this $2500 co-pay? I spent it on cigs already!

>>17835638
WA employment security dept just said you can get bennies here if you leave due to covid. Check and see if your state offers neetbux.

>>17835582
>http://virological.org/t/response-to-on-the-origin-and-continuing-evolution-of-sars-cov-2/418
I'm not seeing the big deal, it simply refutes the idea that L is more aggressive in transmission than S. Still doesn't change anything really. We still have multiple strains.

>>17835683
I have full health insurance through my job but if I didn't, I would never pay a fucking hospital bill.

>>17834670
Everything here is already being shut down. Every school/college in my city has moved to online classes, and I'm pretty sure that's happening most places around the country.

The markets keep tanking regardless of all the loans being offered to stem the tide. We're in for a rough one.

Getting worse by the day.

>>17835724
The first paper is trying to claim there are 2 types of virus now, based on 2 single letter changes (SNPs)

The first change, is synonymous. Meaning, the codon still provides a code for the same amino acid as the original. So the whole basis of the "2 strains" idea is a single amino acid change in one of the proteins. Viruses mutate ALL the time, RNA is a very unstable molecule.

>As of 2nd March 2020, there are 111 nonsynonymous mutations that have been identified in the outbreak. At current, there is no evidence that any of these 111 mutations have any significance in a functional context of within-host infections or transmission rates.

That's the problem with the term "aggressive", you're reading it wrong. This particular SNP is more prevalent in some areas of the outbreak, but there really is nothing significant about that on its own.

>>17835220
Fucking this. Anybody who has actually had to use the health system in this country knows it's absolute garbage. You get passed around from doctor to doctor, while they waste time and you pay tons of money. It takes on the order of months to years to resolve any nontrivial health issue.

>>17835812
Double-top? The pandemic is officially over

>>17835837
Take off. Smart money is buying TP and canned corn.

>>17835812
a lot of this 280x increase has to do with testing capacity/availability, these are confirmed cases.

>>17835828
Also, the authors said as much
>we recognize that within the context of Tang et al. the term “aggressive” is misleading and should be replaced by a more neutral term “a higher frequency”. We have made an addendum to https://doi.org/10.1093/nsr/nwaa036 to clarify this.

>>17835850
I sold 340k, my entire savings, in VTSAX and reinvested in options calls for the major toilet paper producers.

>>17835189
source please, very interesting

>>17835189
>if the above doesn't kill you, it's being theorized in Seattle hospitals that the virus will attack the heart, almost assuredly killing the patient
That guy on Twitter was larpin, Seattle hospital workers called him out

>>17835220
my favorite
>get sick
>go to in-network hospital
>some out-of-network doctor on loan to your hospital glances at your blood sample and says “yep it’s blood”
>now you owe the hospital $10,000

>>17834717
yeah, pretty much only stooges for the establishment will tell you the healthcare system is fine, no one agrees how to fix it though

>>17834670
I think we'll be okay.

Also, no one here uses public transport because that shit's for poor people/fags

>>17836448
I should specify, no one really agrees on what parts need fixed in the first place either

Tachyon's multi-relay forwarding scheme forwards the information by multiple encryptions, so that even the concurrent contribution node
cannot know the forwarding content and routing path.

>>17834806
It is not a person, it is the Norwegian MIT basically.

>>17834832
Norwegians can afford.it, the Norwegian government will pay whatever is needed in the us. The care is still better here.

>>17835553
It is free to use for Norwegians (the Norwegian government pays)it is still worse than our own.

>>17834813
>>17834832
>I am a fat dumb burger fuck who only know about other countries through video games

>>17836448
I wonder if more Americans would agree with Bernie Sanders' idea if you explained his policies to them without saying they're his. People are so dedicated to slandering him as a full on communist without even explaining when what he wants isn't even close to that.

>>17837972
Polls show that 70% want his healthcare system if they just explain what it is and not who it is from.

But people will vote for people like biden to keep themselves with the status quo.

TRUMP JUST COLLAPSED
CORONA CONFIRMED

>>17834670

>>17837972
Bernie is a communist, and only retarded college lefties buried in their student debt from studying worthless degrees and people on the dole wants what he is selling.

Universal healthcare in the US will completely bankrupt the country.

>>17838865
>skelly

>>17834736
True. Number two is Germany. Feels good to be German, now.

>>17834717
whiter than you, achmed.

>>17836471
>taiwan has 100x the population density of the US, is right next to China, and still had fewer cases/deaths

I take it back, when are we martsharters gonna off ourselves?

>>17834670
Amerisharts irrevocably BTFO

as someone living in sweden, i am genuinely fucking scared about the inaction here. basically everything is open as normal. is this the end??

>>17834717
Not even american, the cost of healthcare in the USA is literally a subsidy to the rest of the world all the advancements in the medical field come from that very fact. The USA has the best medical care in the world, you just don’t have access to it if you’re american and have no insurance, if you do have insurance it may be worthless because there is no social safety net there’s a number of reasons why outcomes aren’t as good as could be

>>17834813
We really don't. Doctors will spend a few seconds with you then kick you out, on my last physical I had to ask my Doctor to check my ears, nose and blood because all he did was listen to my heart. I've had many doctors and they're all about the same level of care. The more sick you are the more you go to see them, the more money they make off you. It's more beneficial for them to keep you sick then it is to make you better. the system sucks.

>>17834717
It's almost no different in Europe. Unless you have private insurance you can just hope that you happen to have doctor thar has more than 5 minutes time for you. Also even the "free" healthcare isn't really free. Most vaccines you can pay yourself (including flu shots) and for a hospital stay you can also end up paying up to 25% of the cost.

>>17839202
Yeah the “social distancing” thing isn’t a meme. It’s the only thing that has worked to slow this thing down; it’s almost certainly spreading in your communities. Using genetic epidemiology from the first case in the US to the second in the area, second person spread it undetected for 6 weeks. Close everything!

>>17838865
How is it communism when he's just trying to do what every developed country on earth already does? There's a good reason why shit like the pharmaceutical industry has to be kept in check in other countries because if you don't you get shit like paying 1000 dollars a month for insulin because they can rip you off however they want when the option is to pay up or die.

>>17835126
>I dont believe in the reinfection meme
You're a fucking retard.

>Immunity against coronaviruses appears to be short-lived. Epidemiologic studies of coronavirus infection have demonstrated high reinfection rates. In human volunteer experiments, infection with a 229E-like coronavirus only induced effective immunity short-term because rechallenge with homotypic virus, the 229E serotype, resulted in infection and illness. In addition, under certain circumstances, vaccines against animal coronaviruses have led to enhanced disease
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/coronavirus-infection