/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>17794346
based

mkr is dead

This guys shade is way heavier than money smelly come on

>>17794346
Based link marine javascript creator

>>17794359
>>17794374
this is sad. people lost every cent they ever earned.

>>17794346
not finding this tweet.
did he delet?

>>17794413
KEK

die redditors die

>>17794421
https://mobile.twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1238331150927446016

>>17794421
https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1238331150927446016

>>17794445
>>17794446
ohohohoho
delicioso

>>17794444
Checked and based

Rune, the founder, hasn't made an announcement since the massive cdp liquidations.

His last tweet was from 2/28...

>>17794474
>Cursing Coons With Ancient Runes Christensen.

>>17794346
ok i feel bad now. this one fucked me up.

guy lost his entire savings. I lost 5k and I thought that was bad

>>17794346
what's even the context? all I see is lots of fud from linkies that maker feed malfunctioned, but nobody is able to show how or when, just random bullshit tweets

>>17794413
I wish I could understand this beyond "lost all mah money"

>>17794614
>all I see is lots of fud from linkies
wow, you're fucking retarded

>>17794667
case in point

>>17794673
a bunch of people lost tens of thousands of dollars but yeah it's all just "fud from deluded linkies! chainstinkers at it again!"

you're a fucking retard, again

>>17794690
they lost thousands because the price dropped and there weren't enough liquidation bots
this has literally nothing to do with oracles

>>17794673
dyor

>>17794709
another case in point
but looking at another thread I now realize I'm talking to a paid aave shill
why are you all shitting on makerdao again? Rune fuck your girlfriend?

>>17794614
When ETH collateral debt positions on maker go below their liquidation price, they are auctioned off to recoup the losses. The cdp holder receives a 13% penalty and the eth is returned to them. There was a cocktail of fuckups with Maker's oracles malfunctioning, gas going way up in price as the network got congested, and a bug in the code(auction times went from 3 hours to 10 minutes) . Someone bid $0 on all of the 10 minute auctions and stole $8million dollars. All of those cdps were liquidated to 0. The cdp holders didn't get a 13% fee, they lost everything.

This github entry shows the auction times going from 3 hours to 10 mins.

https://github.com/makerdao/dss-deploy-scripts/commit/c01e332179f7f767e90a7156f77535e57d38c21d

This is a massive oversight or a corrupt dev.

>>17794730
>1 hour to 10 minutes
>implying this would have mattered at all, considering the bidder had free reign for hours

>>17794346
Some employees of Mozilla Foundation (a separate organization from Mozilla Corporation) tweeted calls for his resignation, with reference to his donation of $1,000 to California Proposition 8, which called for the banning of same-sex marriage in California.[20][21] This donation had first made international news in 2012.[1] Eich stood by his decision to fund the campaign, but wrote on his blog that he was sorry for "causing pain" and pledged to promote equality at Mozilla.[17][22] Some of the activists created an online campaign[citation needed] against Eich, with online dating site OkCupid automatically displaying a message to Firefox users with information about Eich's donation, and suggesting that users switch to a different browser (although giving them a link to continue with Firefox).[23][24][25] Others at the Mozilla Corporation spoke out on their blogs in his favor.[26][27] Board members wanted him to stay in the company in a different role.[28] On April 3, 2014, Eich resigned as CEO and left Mozilla; in his personal blog, he posted, "under the present circumstances, I cannot be an effective leader".[3][29] The resignation also made international news, and was viewed as due to Eich's opposition to same-sex marriage.[2][30][4]

>>17794723
It's just the contrast of what happened on aave and what happened on maker. Maker shit the bed and aave's flash loans yielded enough to actually saved some eth.

>>17794474
not a good look, even CZ would atleast put a shitpost out

>>17794346
So this is what happens when you don't play ball with spergy

>>17794346
BAT IS SHIT

>>17794730
>There was a cocktail of fuckups with Maker's oracles malfunctioning
this nebulous bullshit again. When and how they malfunctioned, and more importantly how did that cause the zero liquidation price? Because they didn't malfunction and they had nothing to do with the liquidation price.
>and a bug in the code(auction times went from 3 hours to 10 minutes
how is it a "bug"? 10 minutes is enough under normal liquidity conditions. Given fast falling prices 3 hours can be dangerous.
>>17794753
well good you at least admitted you're shilling for aave.
Maker has literally an order of magnitude more funds, it's not comparable to anything, especially to fully centralized "d"apps like aave. You don't even have an admin delay, you can steal everything instantly. Come back when you add one.

>>17794444
checked and based

Leave oracles to me

>>17794777
every coin is centralized at some point in it's creation and adoption. A project doesn't just appear from the ether. Maker shouldn't have fired the original devs and handed over so much to community governance.

No need to get angry. I got burned by maker, but I'm thankful for the project. It was a good cautionary tale for other defi projects.

Why wouldn't you promote one of the other defi projects in this period? Maker has like 54% of all eth locked in defi. That market share will get spread out to the other projects. Choose aave,compound,bzx,dydx, whatever.

Everyone on this board should be pro defi

>>17794444
checked
plebbitors on suicide watch

>>17794750
how do i go all in on this guy?

>>17794474
>trusting a Chad with software
Lmao serves them right.

Always buy visible autism in tech.

>>17794872
he created BAT. The shame is BAT's main competitor is google.

>>17794838
>It was a good cautionary tale for other defi projects.
the arrogance. Dai is _the_ decentralized stablecoin and maker has proven to be extremely reliable. There's never going to be another decentralized stablecoin with a comparable level of usage. If dai fails centralized stablecoins fully dominate. The end. Trying to replace dai is like trying to make an ethereum killer. It's not going to happen.

>>17794750
Based.

>>17794413
lol can you explain what happened

>>17794777
This, the oracles were not the problem at all. Seems like misdirection from Maker team, counterintuitive as that is, because it ultimately deflects blame.
>>17794838
Also this, they fired everyone who had a whole-system understanding and keep the teams more siloed than Apple does.
>>17794889
Unfortunately this is true

>>17794889
Hey man, I believed the same thing for a long time. A decentralized stablecoin can exist but the model needs to care more about the governance token or whatever minting mechanism is used.

I honestly think Coinbase's stablecoin is the most stable now. If coinbase drops the ball, that would have affects on crypto we've never seen.

JS is fucking cancer, stop celebrating this gigantic faggot

>>17794730
>This is a massive oversight or a corrupt dev.
oh man that's crazy

>>17794921
That was the biggest red flag. The dev who created the infrastructure got ousted. They got to cocky with going 99% dai adoption/1% innovation strategy.

Honestly this thing is backed by so many venture funds it may stick around in some capacity.

>>17794346
Didn’t MakerDAO explicitly say they don’t need Chainlink and can simply just ‘roll their own’ oracle solution?

>>17794889
short sighted unimaginative retard

>>17794346
Ask him when BAT will moon or if he will ever partner with VRA already FFS.

>>17794965
They specifically said that NuLink is a better option, since the code is more secure.

>>17794413
This is why you don't put your life savings into shitty smart contacts. Also who thinks you can build something stable on top of a volatile asset in the first place? If you think you're good because eth would have to call 50% to liquidate you then you should be scared shitless because this is crypto and whales smell blood on that type of shit. The majority of us are just too early thinking we get an edge by buying crypto now, but the reality is 95% of the stuff in this space is complete crap that won't be good for at least another 10 years.

>>17795036
I thought the code was literally copied?

>>17795087
>copied

Forked and refined... Mind the nomenclature, man.

>>17794346
go chainlink! (my only friend)

>>17794413
their own fault tho for putting that much into risky investment.

>>17794583
i love when redditors lose money im jacking off to this shit rn

>>17795141
Ya that just seems crazy to me

>>17794921
>Seems like misdirection from Maker team
yeah right. Totally not an attempt to shill other solutions using dishonest marketing.

>>17794583
>>dont invest more than you can afford to lose. Faggot.

>Investment requires 24x7 monitoring as you can be liquidated at any microsecond if ETH dumps for any reason.
This wasn't just risky it wants pants on head retarded.
You'd have a better return randomly giving homeless $100 each.

>>17794346
javascript is shit ahah

>>17795520
Lol

Ethereum needs to just deprecate and then drop the so-called "smart contracts". These smart contracts have been nothing but trouble as evidenced by the original DAO fiasco and now this MakerDAO event. Going forward, Ethereum's main selling points should be fast transaction times, proof-of-stake and maybe retain a limited, non-Turing complete virtual machine to give it more flexibility than Bitcoin but not allow complicated and failure prone defi apps to be created.

>>17794413

I’m confused as to why people were all
in on this... anybody care to explain? I’ve seen many comments about people losing “everything they had”. Are they referring to everything they had in Maker or literally everything they had?

>>17795421
>no money
>can afford to lose $0
>profit $8m in eth

>>17795772
People invest all their money . Some go further and take out loans to invest more

>>17794346
>Javascript is the main influence of solidity
As a web developer who's been doing that for 20 years I am genuinely sorry you believe this

>>17794445
You can't make this shit up, folks
https://twitter.com/a4fri/status/1238494329288691715

>>17795547
>>17794925
Listen, as someone who's been using JavaScript as a web dev for 20+ years, I have to tell you IT'S FUCKING SHIT AND IF EICH SAYS THE SKY'S BLUE LOOK OUT YOUR FUCKING WINDOW
ETH having a virtual machine is arguably the stupidest concept imaginable especially since the ETH whitepaper showed absolutely no one vetted the code or hired security people to try to attack it. In contrast, the MP4 compression algorithm wasn't ratified until mathematicians hired by MPEG-LA certified it did what it was supposed to. For fucks sake the ETH VM opcodes include one that wipes the program from existence. Look it up if you don't believe me, it's literally called 'suicide.'

>>17795081
Thanks for letting us know Mr. hindsight

>>17794753

I was on aave. It was a fucking nightmsre. Couldnt deposit morr collateral or repay thr loan. Thank fuck i was well covered on margin.

First the network was congested, so transactions weren't even going through. I stayed up all night trying. Second, the actual client stopped working whrn eth became less congested.

Fucking unbelievable stuff. I will NEVER use anything like that again. Absolute unnecessary risk

>>17794889
Lol they better blow my brain out soon then with something amazing. Never touching their shit again

>>17794965
the attack was not an oracle attack, there was zero liquidity from keepers because gas fees were too high and ETH was dumping too hard for the 13% liq penalty to offset these costs (gas and buy high sell low), so there was no incentive for honest keepers to operate their bots, a dishonest keeper then went in, paid a premium for gas, and bid the lowest possible on all the vault liqs, getting a millions in USD of ETH for pennies

>>17796044
>suicide
Actually that name deprecated for being offensive

>webdev of 20 years
Is that supposed to give your retarded opinion some sort of legitimacy?

Redpill me on the MKR cult. I don't understand the irrational attachment these people have for it.

I'd say it looks like a bunch of ETH cultists who realized too late that ETH staking won't make them rich, but are too proud to buy into anything else.

>>17796844
It's a very cool project, first and most decentralized of the defi bunch.
I really liked the previous MKR platform for these reasons, used it quite a bit too.

MKR2 clearly worked as intended, but its design flaws are now apparent and in my opinion irredeemable.

Why doesn't MakerDAO just hard code the 13% liquidation penalty for each CDP? That seems like an easy way to prevent liquidations that are not justified by the price of ETH. The only way a bid of 0 DAI should be accepted is if the smoothed average ETH price was actually 0 which has never happened ever in all of history.

>>17796980
Untested Code

>>17794346
Based link marine

>>17796044
>WEBDEV FOR 20+ YEARS PFTHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHA OH GOD HE PFHTHSADFKJGHASDKJHFASDHJFHADSJFHDSAFDHSAHFASHAHAHAHAHA

>>17794693
>>17794777
>>17794921
>>17796374
>>17794614
>hurr this had nothing to do with the oracles!
>durrrr this is just Linkies fudding!

What you're doing is called "coping" and "being in denial".
Here's MakerDao themselves stating that their oracles failed and how it relates to this exploit.

>>17794693
>>17794777
>>17794921
>>17796374
>>17794614

>>17798216
A daring synthesis.

>>17798216
>you just win

DAI and Maker are the future, their arrogance led then to believe their centralized oracle was fine, no matter how much the community highlighted it as a central point of failure (non-decentralized) they ignored it, when they could have used Chainlinks oracle network for more reliability and trust in the information.

I will never use DAI or buy Maker until they are using Chainlinks oracle network for price input. I'm glad I didn't.

>>17798192
>>17798216
>>17798280
Chainlink unironically continued to perform while Makerdao’s oracles shit the bed.
And because of the secret nature of Maker’s oracles, even Maker themselves don’t know yet what went wrong with their oracles.
With Chainlink, everything is out in the open and the community can immediately spot issues if there are any.

They better hurry up and integrate Link, salvage a little bit of this mess at least.

>>17794730
Sounds like a dev exploit, sad to say. Maker have been repeatedly criticised for coding practices eg needlessly obtuse var names.

>>17798216
Ultra kek, seems somoene is about to bent the knee again boys!

>>17798342
This, all of it.

>>17798395
>Chainlink unironically continued to perform while Makerdao’s oracles shit the bed.
Yes.
Uptime and correctness were 100% maintained, despite the bottleneck at the ETH/gas level.
Pic related.

>>17794474
he's obviously the one who did it. if he hasn't fled the country yet his asshole is going to get gaped BIGLY

>>17798492
How much did chainlink deviate from market?

>>17794413
this is why I dont use "smart contracts"

and yes I hold some ETH but purely as a speculative asset.

>>17795520
You're not wrong. I've had a hobo wash my windshield for a few nickels when I was stopped at a light

>>17798515
As much as the pre-set intervals, so 20 minutes for ETH/USD.
This is entirely up to the client btw, Chainlink's 20 minutes is just an example.

Maker's oracles have 1-hour intervals, and they still failed nonetheless.

>>17796980
All of crypto is an irl beta test for the actual crypto people will use in a decade

>>17795744
>fast transaction times
>proof of stake
>non -turing

So people should be using WAVES then.

Haven't followed maker at all. How do I profit off this?
>Inb4 rope salesman

>>17798525
>a certain type of car has a design flaw
>"this is why I still use horse and cart"

The problem isn't smart contracts, it's specific parts of Maker's system that could easily be rectified.

The failure fag behind bat, lmao. Who cares what failure fag said

>>17799823
What?

>>17798670
Maker still makes up 54% of locked eth. that is undoubtedly going to nose dive. No is going to trust a system that liquidated millions worth of eth to 0.

go to defipulse.com. pick another defi project. I chose aave

>>17794346
Ethereum is a clusterfuck and all projects built upon it are also clusterfucks.

>>17794346
>Javascript is the main influence of solidity.
No wonder solidity fucking sucks

>>17795744
What you’re looking for is XRP, a stable and near flawless platform that’s basically never experienced any weird issues or hacks since 2012. There are a few small things built on top of it, like the ability to issue tokens and the XRPL having a DEX built in. Ethereum’s idea was ripped off a Ripple employee, so was Chainlink’s. Both of these concepts had Ripple employees working on them before skinny and fat Russian came along and shoddily ripped them off. Both of them are almost useless.

>>17794346
S

General consensus is still that BAT is a shitcoin. It has many hurdles to go but it’s making progress. Price action is criminal though, BAT is objectively a horrible investment.

>>17803175
Eich will figure it out

>>17794583
RIP

>>17794346
>an erc20 token
HAHAHAHAHAHAWHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA

>>17803175
>>17803927
Eich is responsible for the terrible price. It's a funding token for his failed chrome reskin.

You think just because Eich invented Javascript and is famous he's not gonna extract 100% of the profit from his token for himself?

>>17794730
they didn't exactly lose everything, cause they still cashed out the DAI when they opened the CDP. not sure how much collateral is needed for the DAI loans, but these people def didn't lose all their money. they took out a loan, then lost the collateral on that loan.

>>17805282
No . most took out the dai and reinvested the dai in the cdp to reduce the risk of liquidation by lowering the liquidation price.

>>17794889
>There's never going to be another decentralized stablecoin with a comparable level of usage. If dai fails centralized stablecoins fully dominate. The end. Trying to replace dai is like trying to make an ethereum killer. It's not going to happen.
Famous last words.

>>17795772
because when you deposit your ETH in a CDP, you are minting DAI, which you can then go on to spend elsewhere. it's basically a loan/ETH long. when you're ready to unlock your ETH, you pay back the DAI. So if you lock up your ETH in a CDP at $100, then take that DAI and go buy $100 worth of ETH. when ETH pumps to $200, you've basically doubled your stack. the risk is liquidation events when ETH crashes.

>>17798192
bullshit though. the price feed had ETH at $160 when it was really $130, so yeah, there was a delay, but it was actually higher and in this case prevented more exploitable liquidations.

>>17798395
the exploit had nothing to do with the oracles you fucking brainlets. go ahead and shill link, but don't pretend like link would have mattered in this case.

>>17805362
so it's basically an ETH long then. you can long ETH on bitmex at 2x leverage and feel pretty save too. if it crashes hard though you're still gonna get hit....

>>17805523
Buy FTX leveraged tokens like ETHBULL and you don't even need to keep anything on an exchange.

>>17805486
Congrats on this, seriously.

>>17805457
Maker:
>our oracles failed, we're not yet sure why

anon:
>bullshit

ok bud

>>17805630
it didnt have anything to do with the oracle retard
the oracle actually prevented more liquidations

>>17805680
The point is the oracles crapped out, anon.

is there a good summary somewhere to read what happened?

>>17805751
the technical details, that is

>>17805751
https://blog.makerdao.com/recent-market-activity-and-next-steps/

from the horse's mouth

>>17794889
lmao RSR would like a word with you

>>17805785
ty

>>17805680
>>17805457
>th-the oracles failing helped prevent more liquidations!!
So incorrect data is ok when it benefits one side?

>>17794346
Fuck if Maker dies RSV will rule stablecoins.
Holy fuck my dick is erect.

To be clear; DAI is great but there's definitely room for improvement; like actually enforcing the 13% penalty, and integrating Chainlink to replace their secret oracles.

>>17805371
fucking kek

>>17806202
>integrating Chainlink
Chainlink's KYC centralized oracles are infinitely more insecure than Maker's centralized oracles.

Why would maker trust 25 literal who nodes, KYCed by a single literal who (Chainlink)? Especially since they have ZERO penalty for lying KEK

Why do you think Chainlink has 0 users? Cause no one knows about it? No. Everyone knows about it. They just know it's insecure, centralized and useless.

>>17806307
>Chainlink's KYC centralized oracles are infinitely more insecure than Maker's centralized oracles.
Is that why Chainlink worked beautifully and Maker crapped out two days ago?

>>17806354
Is that why Chainlink has 0 users and has to use KYC to prevent Sybil attacks?

>>17806371
Chainlink has a bunch of users.
And they're extremely happy with how beautifully Chainlink performed (unlike Maker's oracles) during the recent trial by fire; pic related.

>>17794444
Wow based

>>17796044
theres nothing wrong with the suicide opcode just dont have it in any serious contracts....

>>17806307
>>17794889
>>17794777
rune get off 4chan and answer the poor hapless redditors you scammed

>>17806433
Was there really a fucking BAND pajeet trying to shill his own garbage with all the happenings? Lmao

>>17794750
Firefox is based. The tech industry has become pozzed with trannies and feminists, I quit buying and playing most vidya years ago.

>>17805664
the oracles were inaccurate. but it had nothing to do with the 0 bid exploit. do you even know what happened?

>>17806102
no, but its irrelevant in this conversation because it has nothing to do with the reason maker is shitting the bed.

>>17807155
Oh yes.
He was even trying to convince aave that Chainlink was failing on them lel

bump cause i love chainlink

>>17807705
>>17807767
The oracle failure was absolutely part of the general situation, and it directly impacted the exploit.
Hence why Maker included the oracle situation in the blog about the exploit.

>>17808453
No.
Please read the blog post you're talking about.
It's literally saying that the malfunctioning of oracles slowed down liquidations.

>>17796844
Redditors love defi. It's the tech/science is awesome group. They go all in soon as they hear about it because it's new and techy.

>>17796044
> web dev for 20 years
LOL OFC you hate web development now

You’re a retard compared to us 20-30 year olds raping it out here with the beautiful tech stacks JS provided

>>17809132
>It malfunctioned less because of a double malfunction!

But ok bros tell me is Dai going above or below 1$ on the long term? Or back to stable?

Place your bets.

I don't understand why the MakerDAO smart contract would even allow/accept a $0 auction bid. If the collateral is worth $0 then Ethereum is worth $0. In that case the Ethereum blockchain would no longer function due to lack of miners and the entire defi ecosystem would no longer exist. The logical thing to do would be to stop the auctions and trigger global settlement or whatever it's called so at least everyone has the possibility of getting their tokens back if the Ethereum blockchain somehow remained functional.

>>17798573
Chainlink is 20 minutes and price threshold though, not only 20 minutes.

>>17794923
cant earn 8% savings on coinbase coins