/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>17697196
They make all kinds of excuses for why it never works. Usually has something to do with blaming everyone else for the problems. Imagine that.

people think socialism means free money, it actually just means everyone has a right to your money.
People aren't aware in china you cannot legally own land you get a lease from the government dependent on whatever the government defines.
socialism is literally slavery where you have no ability to control the outcome of your life because you cannot buy and sell.

>>17697268
You can't even own an apartment. That's also on lease from the party.

>>17697239
>>17697268
>>17697311
Wrong. Socialism means that the rich will pay me neetbux to not work

>>17697268
They can also take that land back whenever they want.

>>17697327
>t. useful idiot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

saging in a cope thread

>>17697196
why can't we just execute them with firing squads?

>>17697268
huh? but all they want to do is tax the mega rich. how does that apply to this "/socialist/" thirdworld you speak of? you sound like a major brainlet sociopath right wing retard

>>17697408
dw soon enough his portfolio will hit rock-bottom and out of a sudden he'll be a commie lmao

>>17697196
Imagine having this much of a boomer take. Absolute retardation. Socialism is workers’ ownership of the means of production. Bernie’s policies are social democratic.

>>17697421
he probably doesn't even own link, probably some pajeet boomer shitcoin like bsv

>>17697408
>Socialists aren't socialists

>right wing
there is no difference between national socialism and communism apart from the justifications for the state owning everything which are race and class respectively.

>>17697428
>Socialism is workers’ ownership of the means of production
You seem to be confusing the word "worker" with the word "state"

>>17697196
Having some socialist adoptions in your policies =/= Being a socialist, and if you earnestly think Bernie is even close to socialist you are just a brainwashed sheep and it’s no wonder the Republican Party gets to ride your asshole all day with no lube.

>>17697526
No. It's workers' ownership of the means of production. You don't need a "state" to have socialism.

>>17697327
he actually thinks he can trick rich people into doing this.
what a moron.
socialism is a program for mass poverty.

>>17697408
If you tax the mega-rich like you'd like they'll pay their taxes somewhere else. Your system can not be predicated on screwing the most powerful people of the society

>>17698879
Right that's why we saw the complete economic collapse of western europe after they socialized their healthcare and their higher education systems as their 1% packed up and left the rest of the countries high and dry oh wait they're doing fine.

>>17697196
/biz/

>basedtoss
lol

>>17697526
>He thinks state sanctioned socialism is the end goal and not the complete dissolving of the state as a concept

Read some literature you dumb fuck

>>17697196
Lots of their ideas are good. It’s just they are too stupid to realize that their ideas would only work in white homogenous countries.

Did you learn what socialism is from a Facebook post or something? Read a book retard

There was only one socialist I ever thought wasnt an NPC. He knew he wanted to steal everyone elses shit and that was the best path.

>>17699543

There are only two kinds of socialists: the utterly delusional, and the utterly selfish. I'm not sure which is worse.

>>17697196
I'm paying 35% for taxes. If I'm paying a socialist tax rate, I want socialist benefits.

>>17697196
The boomers who vote Republican already get socialized medicine. Why don't you?

>>17699119
Capitalism is the only functional system where workers *can* own the means of production if they *want* to (by either building or buying). The only other means to aquire production outside of capitalism is through state sponsored violent expropriation. Workers will never violently expropriate business themselves, because that is a fight they lose everytime without state intervention. They dont have the overwhelming control of asymetrical violence require to keep the managers and owners (and more importantly their knowledge of how to run the business) on the premises. The upper management will simply run away and possibly return with a modern version of the pinkertons. You have not a single example of workers taking over production in world history, the state is always involved, and once involved it never goes away until system collapse.

Name a socialist country that collapsed without the violent intervention of a foreign power like the US or UK, I'll wait
If it didn't work, the elites that run the world wouldn't worry about attacking socialist countries down so much

>>17697513
>soshialisum is when de state doez thiinnnnggzzzzs ooooooooinga booongaaaa no step on snek!!!!11!+!!!+!+!!11
Fucking off yourself you absolute disgrace of a human being

>WAHHH SOCIALISM NEVER WORKS ALL SOCIALIST COUNTRIES ARE SHITHOLES
ok but much of the first world outside of burgerland has socialized medicine, that's really all we want
>TH-THAT'S CAPITALISM NOT SOCIALISM
ok cool can we just do that kind of capitalism here?
>NO REEEE THAT'S SOCIALISM GO BACK TO VENEZUELA

^ This is literally what you retards sound like. Get a fucking grip.

>>17700101
Why? Being exposed to underhanded geopolitics happens to every country regardless of ideology. If the USSR was so great how come US undercutting them worked and the USSR undercutting america didnt work? What makes socialist countries so incapable of resisting being collapsed by fat incompetent capitalists?

>>17700204
Based

>>17700188
keep voting for more tax

>>17700101
A fucking tiny island with outdated weapons and that is no real threat to anyone like Cuba somehow makes the US and its allies start sperging at the UN and all international organizations.
Same with North Korea
I'm glad they exist

>>17700208

It's funny cause this was all settled with the USA vs the USSR. Two huge spheres of influence, two diametrically different takes on economics, and one blew it out of the ballpark and starved the other one into submission.

Because, predictably enough, you can't fucking micromanage an entire economy through the state. The state can't even handle the fucking postal service.

And now I've hit my monthly quota for posting in these endless, cliché socialist threads. Some people have no sense at all and make the rest of us suffer through their phases.

>>17700237
I'm not even American
Bernie isn't even a socialist
He's as much of a leftist as Obama is, and he bombed Libya to oblivion
Reminder that Sen. Sanders voted in favor of bombing Serbia in the 90s

>>17697428
>Socialism is wagies’ ownership of the means of production
>the means of production are not owned by the investors

How can any brainlet think this is better than capitalism lmao

>>17700208
>literal feudal backwater run into the ground by retard Tsar, literally rotting from the inside
>poor as shit, population ravaged by war and famine
>somehow the Bolsheviks get control and turn it into a global super power in a fraction of the time it took the United States
I'm not even pro-USSR but these takes are just historically illiterate.

>>17700204
Some of us acknowledge that, demographically, america is getting closer to brazil than Scandinavia. There is no such thing as magic soil or effective laws, there is only the measure of the people in a country. A system that works with a small, white, high IQ, homogeneous population, probably wont work in a country that has 100 million brown people on the dole. But hey, at least you have your naive optimism, nobody can ever take that from you.

>>17697196
Admittedly the Basedcialist looks pretty well fed lol.

>>17700366
>The Soi filter is still active
Wow, the same 4chan I grew to hate 2 years ago

>>17697196
Socialism is not Stalinism/Leninism, retard. Wanting a free Healthcare and college, setting minimum wage and better workers right is not the same as seizing the mean of production. US need socialism so people don't need to pay 500 000 plus tip just to treat flu and having a decent salary.
>but the taxes!!!!
I told you what. You still need to pay tax even now. But instead getting benefits from their tax like healthcare, fatcunt don't receive any benefits from their tax. Stop voting against your own economic interest.

>>17700384
Americans never know the difference between socialdemocracy, socialism, and Marxism-Leninism. Cold war propaganda and the red scare did a nice job on them

>>17700311
And? Copying technology is fucking cheap and easy. Its not like the basic industrial science developed the UK and america was secret. Look at china
>literal communist bacwater run into the ground by retard chairman, literally rotting from the inside
>poor as shit, population ravaged by political assasination and famine
>somehow turns into a global superpower by just adopting property rights in the 90's for its citizens, in a fraction of the time it took USSR or USA
State planning cannot compete with the private market, never has and never will.

>>17700434
Also welfare = socialism apparently

>>17700318
>A system that works with a small, white, high IQ, homogeneous population, probably wont work in a country that has 100 million brown people on the dole
kek you /pol/tards repeat this stupid horseshit verbatim every time universal healthcare gets brought up
it makes literally no sense even if you accept le ebic race realism

>>17700434
Leninism is still utter garbage. It tosses aside family ties and regional autonomy in favor of whatever the Soviet Union needed. A form of internationalism at the expense of family structure, culture, and regional stability.

>>17700442
Without said Chairman, China wouldn't be a fraction of what it is today.

>>17700434
Sure we can, but i dont care how much shit you want to put in my sandwich. Even a little bit is too much for my taste.

>>17700384
people could afford all that if there wasn't an unelected private bank debasing their savings and wages exponentially so that they can never accumulate wealth to stop working.

that is the entirety of the scam you socialists instigate; first debasement making everyone poor then you continually increase tax making people more poor, then you blame capitalism for them being poor and radicalize all the useful idiots to vote for more socialism until they own nothing

>>17700311
The Bolsheviks also turned all of eastern Europe into a pile of fecal matter, HIV skyrocketed the moment Lenin approved of homosexuality which is why it was promptly banned by Stalin, and on top of that, anyone with the right ties to the KGB had free reign to kick non-Russian families out of their homes just because they wanted to move.

>>17700489
Go to North Korea
They don't pay taxes there

>>17700466
Only cost the lives of 60 million chinese, and still left them $1/day peasant farmers. Property rights reforms came after mao was dead, buried, and disavowed. I wouldnt expect any of you drooling retard commies to know any chinese political history in detail, so thanks for confirming my biases.

>>17700510
>north korea is capitalist
are you fucking retarded.

>>17700311
>literal feudal backwater
Russia end it feudalism (or serfdom) in 1861 so it was not feudal by the time the communist came
>poor as shit
In the beginning of the 20th century Russia was one of the largest fast growing economies and the fifth largest economies in the world. One of the main reasons why Germany pushed for war hence was because they were scared of economic capable Russia which in that time was growing to a reality
>famines in Russia
Yes there were famines in the tsarist period of Russia but the worst famine was during the period of communism
>Bolshitwicks turned Russia into superpower
Nope Russia was already a super power before the Bolshitwicks, it was capable to be large threat to the UK at that time and win the "Great game" in the Near East Russia managed to gain the cost of manchuria from China and expand their imperial power in Asia. The groundwork of USSR power both in industry and in geopolitics was already created by imperial Russia which the commies exploited very well

Now I suggest to kys since you failed for the most obvious commie propaganda but before you do please buy some history books about Russia before you write any other bullshit.

>>17700522
They probably don't even know who Deng Xiaoping is

>>17697268
>People aren't aware in china you cannot legally own land you get a lease from the government dependent on whatever the government defines.

its the same in the united states. the land is rented to you until the government wants it for something else.

>>17700554
they can't even find Taiwan the better version of China on a map

>>17700555
Are you referring to imminent domain? Because that along with property tax is has not always been the case.

>>17700555
If anything, property tax has helped accumulate farmland into the hands of corporations because they can afford to pay the cost that families can't.

>>17697408
>tax the rich
>rich leave, close shop, or run out of money
>tax you instead
Every single time it's been implemented, with 0 exceptions. But really the problem is that they always require total government control to do it. There's a reason the people that want to "tax the rich" also want to ban you from saying things and take away your guns. The objective is to convert citizens into subjects. You're not supposed to have rights to speech, defense, or property. Those are the 3 enemies of socialism.

>>17700555
the government can force you to sell for compensation.
In other news there was private bank established in 1913 completely undoing the USA as a capitalist country.

you cannot own in china.
You cannot own under socialism, that's the whole point.

>>17700567
Taiwan isn't relevant nor a country so I don't care

>>17700554
A fucking revisionist
That's what he is

marx was right fuck off fascist cunts go read lenin you illiterate fucks.

>>17700660
Ooooh ching chong ching
I bet you own a fair share of items from Taiwan, a country where people don't share a single pair of pants between 4 family members, and feel the need to buy tainted meat at a wet market.

>>17697196
Oh god no please don't send me to
a Scandinavian country with free healthcare and education

>>17700683
>Performs commie revolution
"What do I do now? I can't let the hip young teens lose their commie spirit!"
>has everyone young man and woman go out of their way to destroy the homes and lives of practically everyone with an IQ above 80 (teachers, party members, artists, poets, etc.)
Retard

>>17700542
t. Nicholas II

>le emancipation decree ended feudalism!
fucking kek. if you actually believe this you have negative IQ.
>Russia was an economic superpower
the slightest economic shocks btfo'd the entire economy, based!
>Russia was already a super power before the Bolsheviks
getting btfo'd by japan doesn't make you a super power

>>17700567
oh shit i've been arguing with a taiwanese copelord

>>17700735
https://youtu.be/rJC7ki1F-_Q

>>17700696
Taiwan is as much of a shithole as mainland China is.
Also I don't see how owning items made in a place were cheap labor makes production easier for foreign owners of capital means my argument is wrong. With that same logic I guess India, Bangladesh and Pakistan must be utopia.

>>17699125
>It’s just they are too stupid to realize that their ideas would only work in white homogenous countries.
/thread

>>17700208
>small country with political system is demolished by very large country with other political system
>small country's political system is worse because it can't fight very large country
Retarded take

>>17700880
Never said that it made it a utopia, but Taiwan is relevant to the US for the exact same reason China is. There's nothing special about China that Taiwan doesn't also do. Also, the fact that the Chinese opted to shift away from Maoism in the first place should be a sign of how garbage it was under your fairytale economics

>>17700489
>unelected private bank
Remind me again what part of that is socialist in any respect?

>>17697268
Yeah your land is yours in the US till jeff bezos decides he wants it to build Amazon 3.5 and the sheriffs come shoot all your family because you won't leave

>>17701158
Letting the retard "proletariat" masses elect anything is a terrible idea. Read some Aristotle.

>>17697196
Sanders' policies are social democratic. While he'd probably fail overall (due to the nature of American culture and society) the end result would be something like Britain's welfare state and education system, which for many of his core supporters would represent an increase in quality of life.

>>17697268
>People aren't aware in china you cannot legally own land you get a lease from the government dependent on whatever the government defines.
this is unironically good though
free trade is good, free enterprise is good (and central banks should be run to promote enterprise, not speculation and not welfarism), but land-banking is a cancer. (a more moderate solution would be a land value tax, but it's better to go too far and let nobody own land than to go too far the other way and have foreigners buying up land so they can parasite off the hard work of other people nearby and then sell it for profit later.)

>>17700208
Look at USSR's border compared to US... zillions of miles of land that needed to be guarded while the US has 2 fat oceans and 2 subject countries on its border

>>17698879
>>17700628
>If you tax the mega-rich like you'd like they'll pay their taxes somewhere else
This is because the US government lets them
Since the 70s America has exerted pressure on other countries to make them cut taxes. (via the IMF and other institutions) Why not turn around and demand they increase their taxes in line with America? What are the Cayman Islands going to do against the USAF?

>>17701158
taking individuals wealth to make them work more through debasement

>>17701190
>>17700642

>>17701225
>no one can have idle wealth
>keynesianism
move to china if you want your life to be about maximising your productive contribution to some collective at the expense of your freedom

>Thinking you have a right to someone else's profits because it's you're opinion of how the world should be run
Whew lad

>>17701286
Sounds like textbook wealth consolidation into the hands of people who are most efficient at building wealth to me, i.e.: Capitalism.

>>17701286
>no one can have idle wealth
have all the idle wealth you want, just don't put it in land.

>>17701312
capitalism is that no one has a right to your wealth without your permission.
It is moral because the only way to get someones money is to exchange value for it incentivising value creation, whereas socialism gives the right to everyones wealth to some arbiter incentivising corruption

central banks take peoples wealth by taking advantage of peoples ignorance it is incompatible with capitalism.

>>17701329
if you want to live like that go live in china

>>17701387
>capitalism is that no one has a right to your wealth without your permission.
this would more aptly be named propertarianism.
it's called capitalism and not yourwealthisyoursism for a reason

>>17701405
Capitalism means private ownership. Ownership means others can't take it
central banks take peoples wages and savings, it is incompatible with capitalism

>>17701458
>Capitalism means private ownership
why'd they call it capitalism and not ownerism then?

>>17701471
>semantics
why haven't you moved to china yet so you can't own shelter independent of the ccp letting you?

>>17701286
>move to china if you want your life to be about maximising your productive contribution to some collective at the expense of your freedom
That's literally already your life under capitalism. The collective is just different than who you think it is. Your only worth as an individual is making someone else money, and while you do that you have absolutely no freedom on your job, which you are structurally required to have unless you can somehow get neetbux.
>>17701288
>thinking you have the right to someone else's labor because it's your opinion of how the world should be run (because it already runs that way and you've drunk the koolaid)
>>17701387
>capitalism is that no one has a right to your wealth without your permission.
Literally no one defines capitalism that even. Even if they did you're forgetting how something is decided as "your wealth" and how that person gains that wealth (the answer is the state and the person using the state's laws to immorally own productive property that other people have to use to stay alive)
>>17701458
I own the products of my labor, others take those products all the time, therefor under a truly capitalist system no one would be allowed to take it.

>>17701225
Based Georgist

>>17701486
they asked me if i wanted a chinese visa and i said "no, i want a socialist visa" (because i apparently want socialism, not chinaism) and they looked at me funny and muttered something in chinese then pulled down the window at the visa booth.

>>17697196
So Scandinavia? Because that's what they mean when they say socialism. You can say it's not real socialism (and you'd be correct), but keep in mind; if you do that, you're playing the same "not real socialism" game that you accuse socialists of playing.
>>17697428
Holy based. I've never seen someone in 4chin give the correct definition of socialism.

>>17701492
>capitalism and socialism are the same
no they're not

If your country has a central bank conducting keynesian monetary policy you do not live in a capitalist country.

capitalism means private ownership.

>others take those
you freely exchange the products of your labor for a wage. unless you're laboring for free?

>>17701511
tell me the definition of capitalism you like then comrade

>>17701571
>implying we've had remotely keynesian monetary policy at any point since the 70s
new ""keynesianism"" has as much to do with keynesianism as jerome powell has to do with the sentinelese.
the period ~1973-2020+ will go down in history as one long string of economic mismanagement bluffed out by some moderately good luck in the 90s and desperately kept alive by an establishment completely out of ideas for where to turn next.

>>17701571
>you freely exchange the products of your labor for a wage. unless you're laboring for free?
Can a man dying of thirst in a desert freely exchange anything for water? If the answer is "yes", then what kind of value does the word "free" have? If the answer is "no", then it's an obvious extrapolation that most people are the man in the desert and they must sell their labor under unfree circumstances in order to survive.

>>17700476
Then of ahead and define social democracy, socialism, and marxism-leninism. Without looking it up.

>>17697268
>People aren't aware in china you cannot legally own land you get a lease from the government dependent on whatever the government defines.
Try not paying your property taxes and see if you "own" your house

>>17697196
Or you could send them to the social democracies that sanders' policies are actually from, which have generally higher QoL than the US by a majority of empirical metrics.

>>17697196
Funny thing, I actually did immigrate (from America, yes) to a "socialist shithole," because I got tired of paying taxes in a country where I didn't receive basic services that people from other first world countries take for granted.

I live in a prosperous country with universal healthcare. I encourage you to try and guess which one. You won't be able to, because there's so many countries that fit that description. That should tell you something.

Fucking berntards have a short memory.
No refunds!

>>17701632
the reason you are poor is because of central banking, which is socialism. Central banking creates the desert of wageslavery they devalue your wages and savings to minimise the unemployment rate.
The federal reserve is a completely unconstitutional institute in the USA but not in national socialist germany, communist russia or communist china. Central banking is what they want.

>>17701647
no shit, do you think I think property tax is a good thing? or consistent with capitalism?
this has nothing to do with ownership, which you do not have under a socialist government

>>17699744
n-no medicare isn't real socialism that doesn't count

Why do people think Berne stands for socialism? He wants capitalism, only a sane version of capitalism with the brakes on, so that people in a supposedly rich country doesn't have to go bankrupt if they catch a cold. This does provably work because it is what is done in EVERY other first world country.

>>17701751
You just completely ignored my entire argument and went back to ranting about central banking.
>Central banking creates the desert of wageslavery they devalue your wages and savings to minimise the unemployment rate.
Prove that central banking causes wageslavery and not the historical facts of things like Enclosing the Commons. Wage-labor cannot exists if the average person can easily work for themselves.

>>17701816
it is the policy of central banks to make you poor
they devalue you savings and wages so you can't stop working

>>17701751
>Central banking creates the desert of wageslavery they devalue your wages and savings to minimise the unemployment rate.
this hasn't been the aim of most central banks since the 1970s. nearly all central banks moved from a mandate to maintain full employment to a money supply targeting mandate after the 1973 oil crisis, then to an inflation targeting mandate in the 90s.
not to mention that in "normal" times (i.e. the 90s-2000s pre crisis.) interest rates in savings accounts were higher than inflation. if wage growth also matched inflation, nobody was having anything "inflated away" by the central bank. they were still making real gains on their savings.

monetary policy is a complete farce at the moment, but not for the reasons you're getting at.

>>17701816
you made an argument about I deserve other peoples wealth because I have none

I made the point the reason you don't is because the economy is being optimised that way by socialist monetary policy

>>17701808
I'm donating my wife and daughter to the cause. Match me?

>>17701836
>and wages
daily reminder that until the 2008 crisis, wage growth in britain was outpacing RPI inflation (a measure that generally overstates the inflation rate) at almost all times (despite a policy in the 70s of trying to control inflation by outright capping wage increases.).
the bank of england (the UK's central bank) was nationalized in 1946.

>>17701836
An inflation rate of 2% is insignificant to most people who barely have any savings or even negative wealth. If you have enough money to save you could easily put it into assets with a greater return than inflation takes away. The reason you can't stop working is that system based on maximizing profit has to have a large mass of people whose only option is to work for wages.
>>17701848
I don't deserve other people's wealth, I deserve the product of my labor which other people take from me because the state puts me into a desert so that I have to sell my labor to not die.

>>17701845
most central banks list their goals as control the supply of money to maintain full employment, currency stability and economic prosperity.

inflation targeting is easy when you define inflation ie central banks have no control over the purchasing power of their currencies but they do control the definition of CPI.

This was a conversation about socialism being hell.
My opinion on central banks is that they were a necessary evil to fight foreign socialists or the entire system is corrupt and being used to herd us all to global socialism.
So it's not like I think history could've happened any other way than it did but keynesian monetary policy is designed to squeeze the production out of people by never letting them accumulate wealth.
This achieved by having people believe cpi is a reasonable measure of wealth over time when it is antithetical to one

>>17697408
How gullible.
Socialists burry the middle and upper middle class under taxes and create legions of useless public workers parasiting the entire society. The mega rich pay 0% taxes because they can just fuck off to the non retarded neighbor.

Socialism is grand scale kleptocracy and founded on the lie there is such thing as a free lunch.

t. live in a country which was managed by socialists for 30 years

>>17701868
the graph is meaningless.
Pricing things in fiat
is like measuring a field with a yardstick that got shorter each year and believing the field was getting longer.
is like going to a gym where they make the kilogram lighter every month and you believe you're getting stronger.
is like your employer lengthening the definition of an hour so you stay at work longer each day

>>17701902
>2%
it's 7% not 2%. CPI is antithetical to a unit of measurement
>the state puts me into a desert
doesn't happen under capitalism, Socialism means your life is dictated by the state
>not die
if you think you have the right to not die, we're just gonna have to agree to disagree
scarcity is a feature of reality.

>>17701910
almost none still use the term "full employment", they weasel around it if they mention employment at all. the federal reserve's specific mandate is:
>maximum sustainable employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates
"maximum sustainable employment" is a bullshit phrase. you either have full employment (and we have had it successfully in past when we've sought it) or you don't. "full economic employment", "maximum sustainable employment" and all phrases of the kind are excuses for not actually achieving full employment: no men involuntarily unemployed. if you can't achieve that, it's not full employment - period.
stable prices is just CPI, and moderate interest rates can be achieved so long as CPI behaves itself. all the recent federal reserve chairs have been more concerned about inflation than unemployment. (in actions, if not in words. conventional thinking might have them being "risky" by keeping rates low, but they're not taking the kind of radical action needed to actually get people off the scrapheap and into work.)

>>17701976
>is like measuring a field with a yardstick that got shorter each year and believing the field was getting longer.
it isn't though, you're reading the graph wrong. to run with your metaphor:
one line shows how much shorter the yardstick got that year, the other shows how much taller the grass got.
at nearly every point on the graph, the grass got taller faster than the yardstick got smaller. so we can conclude from that information that the grass got taller overall.

>>17701981
>bullshit double think phrase
agree. a hallmark of socialists

CPI is a meaningless measure of value over time because it is the complete inversion of a unit of measurement. Which is its design; to stop people accumulating wealth.

the value of the dollar was defined as 1/20th an ounce untill 1933 when they reduced the peg to 1/35th
if you earned $100 a week in 1932 you made 5 ounces a week
then in 1934 you still made $100 a week but now only earned 2.8 ounces

CPI makes you believe something that is not true; the dollar had a fixed value prior to 1971, there was no where in the world where you could exchange an ounce for $2000usd in 1980.

If I had held an ounce of gold from 1932 till today i would have made 77x in usd not 4x as cpi would tell you.

CPI is a flat out lie, it is madness.
It's as insane as retroactively changing the value of gravity

>>17702010
>the dollar had a fixed value prior to 1971
it didn't really, though. the minute people actually started redeeming dollars for gold they suspended convertibility to gold. the postwar gold standard was basically a compromise between what keynes actually wanted (an international clearing union that would force countries to keep their trade balanced overall, with a gold based currency named Bancor to build confidence in it at the start.) and what the Americans wanted (Europe to pay denbts and America to be in the most powerful position in the international financial system). The gold was mostly just there to obscure the fact everyone was on a US dollar standard - which worked fine until America started to run a trade deficit, at which point other countries realized they'd benefit from using the dollars they got from trade to buy up some gold.

it's a shame bancor didn't work desu, it would be a good way to let countries run their own domestic affairs (as free market, social democratic, socialist or otherwise as they want them to be.) without getting fucked by international financiers of all colors.

>>17700457
>one population is net contributor to the budget with a first world productivity
>the rest are huge fucking leeches with Haiti tier productivity
The first value average value creation allows to fund a first world healthcare system, the second doesn't

The absolute stupidity of commies not understanding BASIC MATHS.

>>17702001
a unit of measurement is defined as something that's dependent variable remains constant with respect to the independent variable.

Consumer goods become worthless with time as they are defined in that they are consumed in there use
additionally the banks index uses consumer experience in that they equivocate "consumer electronics" over decades even though that example should be measured in $/hz or $/byte. Exponential relationships between consumer goods and cost efficiency like moores law and wright law apply to nearly any industrial productive process.

gold is the best measure of value over time because all things' value change relative to it because of its chemical properties and distribution in the universe. This is the reason it develops as money in all cultures independently, because it offers the greatest efficiency in allocating resource as it is the most accurate at pricing things.

It's astounding anyone thinks cpi is rational. I mean we could sit and argue about what is the best unit of value over time between gold, silver, housing, platinum but cpi is the complete inversion of measurement. I would prefer my salary be denominated in tonnes of dog shit than fiat because at least dog shit isn't guaranteed to go down

>>17702048
I do not advocate a gold standard, the gold standard is the cause of the problem.

Prices should be denominated in gold and then it doesn't matter what the currency is

>>17702048
the dollar had that value although it wasn't justified, you could go and get gold by proxy at that rate

>>17702059
>all things' value change relative to it because of its chemical properties and distribution in the universe
this is true of everything, though. prices are always moving relative to other prices. you can (and some do) use big macs as a reference point for the relative value of currencies. (and by extension, all goods denominated in those currencies.)

>This is the reason it develops as money in all cultures independently
the micronesians use big stones and desu I think that's much cooler.
they didn't even have to move the stones to take ownership, they just had an oral history of who owns the stone and if everyone agrees it's yours then it doesn't matter that it's in someone else's garden, on a different island, or even at the bottom of the ocean.
funny story: one day the german empire wanted them to build roads because the coral on the islands ruined the german shoes. the islanders were used to walking on coral, so they refused. the germans came along and painted big crosses on the stones they now considered to have been seized by the german empire - but they left the stones on the island. nonetheless, the islanders now considered themselves impoverished (because their money had been "taken") so duly set to work building the roads. when they were done, the crosses were removed and the islanders got their money back.

His plans are literally what all of scandinavia had had for literally years and they seem to be doing just fine

>>17702083
what happens when there's a random spike in the gold price? (i.e. i develop a new battery technology, but it requires large quantities of gold. demand for gold spikes, supply remains more-or-less constant, econ101 prices go up.)
either everyone has to cut their gold denominated prices, or the price of their goods has just increased arbitrarily.

>>17702057
>communism is when ppl are leeches
That's capitalism tho

>>17701751
>this has nothing to do with ownership, which you do not have under a socialist government
you have to pay taxes retard so you never own anything completely
USA a socialist hellhole confirmed

>>17702137
no it is not true of everything. The value of gold changes the least with time of everything making it the value datum.
It does change relative to itself but it does this less than anything else. And it has a buffer in that when it gets too expensive it becomes profitable to mine new supply.

>>17702148
Gold changes the least.
the price of gold is the price of the dollar. The dollar lost 21% in the last year as did anything denominated in usd that did not change.

If the economy grows and needs more money the higher price of gold gives access to previously unprofitable supply like asteroid mining, gold from the sea, mining.
The problem with fiat is that it is a substitute good for gold built on delusion, a bubble

>>17702196
I was arguing socialism is shit not that the USA in it's absolute current state is capitalism

>>17701902
>2%
If the money supply would always remain static you might be right but because the supply grows annually and they don't destroy the excess money the inflation grows with each year devaluing money. Those 2% on the old plus new money would appear as if 20% has been applied to the initial supply.
Except if they would lower the percentage each year depending on the newly generated money. But they would lose out on their riches gained by corruption.

I can smell all the burgertrolltards in this thread from the other side of the ocean, at least we have showers in our commie nations

itt

>>17697268
thinking a piece of paper and "rights" means you own your land. lmao sheep

What a surprise this thread is full of retards who’ve never read Marx, Keynes or anything at all outside of infowars articles and posts by other equally retarded NEETs in here. Morons don’t even understand how fiat currencies function. Guarantee you these faggots post in stocks threads pretending they have a clue what the fuck they’re talking about

>>17703014
Marx was a fucking retarded glorified hobo and Keynes is the reason the stock market is crashing right now
>t. read both just to make sure they are retarded and wrong

>>17703120
>read marx
bullshit. Das Kapital is so long that Marx himself could not finish it.

>>17701524
Scandinavia is fucking capitalist you brainlets.

If you want to be like Denmark or Norway, you are 1) a capitalist 2) an ethno-nationalist

Bernie is clearly neither. Stop falling for these obvious Jewish rhetorical games.

Bernie Panders is a straight up Marxist/Communist, but knows he can never EVER get elected to anything by admitting it straight up. That's why he honeymooned in the USSR and not in stockholm.

Fucking commies are the worst.

>>17701524
Has Scandinavia banned the wage system aka private property, businesses, jobs that arent state controlled? Yea, kill yourself.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/81ngB50aD0aJ/
"European Style Socialism"

Hes a communist and youre either a liar or the perfect example of someone too stupid to justify a system like democracy existing.

"Abolition of the wage system" is something not even China has done. Its extreme communism. Its the USSR.

>>17703120
>and Keynes is the reason the stock market is crashing right now
You're a moron.

>>17701524
>>17703638
Like I mean the guy unironically spoke in favor of bread lines but shills still say hes not a communist.

>dont worry its fine because its european style banning the wage system

>>17703663
>Everyone get in line, last 50% starve to death like a rotten egg!
I think thats how it goes, right. As long as its european style starving to death.

>>17701158
Central planning of the economy by a pseudo-state institution (who has private owners)
It's literally a primary plank of the communist manifesto you fucking sperg

>>17700706
Only white people accepted, go leech somewhere else shitskin.

>>17703676
Look your definition of socialism is retarded, thats like saying murdering blacks is a core tenet of police officers beliefs because the rules of engagement allow them to kill blacks.

SOCIALISM IS: IDEAS OF RACIAL AND ECONOMIC EQUALITY, REDISTRIBUTED WEALTH FROM RICH WORKERS TO POOR NON WORKERS, CLASS WARFARE - POOR KILL THE RICH

Thats socialism. If you want to make it communism, change equality to equity and throw in banning private property.

When accusing people of being socialists, boomer lolberg, make sure:
A. they want to take rich peoples money and give it to people who dont work
B. They think racism is bad
C. They want poor and rich to hate eachother

Authoritarianism has nothing to do with it. Nothing. Many socialists are whats called social democrats, or democratic socialists. They want all that shit above but plan to vote for it. Theyre still socialists. Many nationalists who are racist, dont believe in equality and dont want class warfare but class unity are not socialists, they are fascists. Thats the opposite, even if they do it in an authoritarian way.

>cops and robbers are both authoritarian so theyre all fascist commies!
See how dumb this logic sounds. No, authoritarian doesnt = communist, it means youre authoritarian.

are people really willing to starve and have no money as long as that suffering is under capitalism instead of socialism

>>17701808
He calls himself a socialist you fucking sperg. He's not a capitalist.

I don't get this narrative of
>YOU CAN'T JUST SOCIALIZE MEDICINE ALL THE RICHFAGS WILL IMMIGRATE TO OTHER COUNTRIES AND YOU'LL TURN INTO VENEZUELA REEEEEE
Look at LITERALLY every other first world nation on Earth? Is that what happened? No. What fictional universe are you retards living in?

>>17701929
Based and redpilled.

>>17701976
>the state puts me into a desert
>doesn't happen under capitalism, Socialism means your life is dictated by the state
>Scarcity is a factor of reality bro just try not to die
Fuck off with this doublethink, retard. If scarcity is an inherent feature of reality, than being landed in the proverbial desert and who must unfairly sell you labor in order to not die is not a feature of socialism, it's a consequence of living in a world with finite resources under any economic system at all

>>17703724
Youre fake anti-capitalists and all the Rothschild money went to the Strassers. Whenever it comes down to it the capitalists and communists are side by side against the native people of the land. We wont have to starve when youre dead, and we wont have to fear our children being raped and hacked up and put in kebab meat either. False dichotomy, both are garbage and desu marxism is more garbage than capitalism, so youre saying heres a turd, I know you dont like it very much, but how about add some ape cum on top of that turd, much more apetizing now huh?

National Socialist Germany was the undisputed economic powerhouse of Europe before the war even broke out, turned around from the European country hit hardest by the depression, worse than the US. National Socialism is the highest form of existence man has ever known. Deal with it.

>>17697196
Kinda like Denmark? Sweden? Norway? Hmmmm? Makes you think when Sanders keeps mentioning these countries during his campaign and retards keep going to "VALENZUELA"

>>17703724
Pure cohencidence Im sure, that Marx is closely related to the Rothschilds AND is the founder of communism. Capitalism and Bolshevism are truly the two sides of the same international Jewish coin. When Soros the communist ends up in trouble in Hungary, his boys in Israel, the capitalist zionists stand up for him and say its racist. Its all just kikes.

>>17703784
https://www.bitchute.com/video/81ngB50aD0aJ/
KYS youve been annihilated. Explain which European country has "abolished the wage system" Jew.

>>17703652
It's part of their con. Saying they just want to be like Scandinavia, while he literally calls for bolshevik revolution

https://gab.com/OneManAuschwitz/posts/103720881786677197

Berniefags are the fucking worst parasite liars ever.

If there was any justice in the world, we would build gulags to send these fags to, so they can learn the value of work (arbeit mact frei) and be re-educated out of their Marxist retardation. They seem to fucking love gulags, so why not.

>>17703767
capitalism doesn't cure mortality you retard.
but it lets you accumulate wealth and live your life by your own pursuit of happiness

>>17703799
:)

>>17697196
>public roads, police and firefighting services, social security
>cool and good
>public health care and college
>REEEEEEE

>>17703795
>KYS youve been annihilated.
Are you like 12 or something? I understand a lot of hormonal changes is going through your body right now but I don't use something he said in 1980s at as an argument for what he wants today. I look at his campaign website and what they're trying to do and his current stances.
If I wanted dumb current opinions I would look at Trump's recent twitter posts.

>>17703722
You are fucking clueless it hurts.

Social democracy is NOT socialism. It is a form of capitalism. More specifically, capitalism with a welfare state

Democratic Socialism (what Bernie tells everyone he is), is a nonsense term. There is no democratic socialism anywhere. Socialism is ALWAYS authoritarian, there are 0 examples where this is not the case. But when he says democratic, what he means is that he wants to institute the system through voting, rather than through violent revolution.

Socialism is the initial stage between taking control of a capitalist economy and from turning it into a full blown authoritarian shithole i.e communism.

Socialism is a transition stage where power is increasingly consolidated. Nationalization of major industries, such as healthcare, education, finance and energy. This is why Republicans resist ALL forms of government takeover, because they are not stupid and realize every major industry being hijacked by government is another step away from liberty and towards the tyranny of socialism/communism.

Either way socialism is instituted, you still have to shoot your way out.

Brainless retard.

American stupidity in nutshell
regards, Winland

>>17703839
Yes, your position has been utterly destroyed by facts and just like a predictable Jew you went off on a tangent about muh zognald. Youre not talking to a civic nationalist, shill. You and Zognald can get in an oven together at 1488 degrees.

>>17703822
Yea giving the government the sole power to brainwash our children, what could go wrong.

We don't want your fucking commie propaganda shoved down our children's throats from age 2 to age 25.

Faggot.

>>17703802
That wasn't the argument, dumbass. The argument was that under capitalism you are supposedly selling your labor to your employer in a contract in which both you and your employer hold equal amounts of power (the fallacy underpinning so-called "right to work" legislation). This is a false premise because the resource scarcity underpinning life on earth means that you MUST sell your labor to your employer to avoid death, whereas your employer can do without your labor because he can always hire someone else (you are replaceable). This situation is in actuality less like an exchange of labor for money between two equal partners, and more akin to a man with water holding said water hostage from another man dying in the desert until he agrees to sell himself into slavery. A socialist would argue that socialism allows the man to recoup more of the real value of his labor by placing the ownership of the life-saving water with him, so that he is no longer a slave. You can disagree with this stance, but trying to argue that the resource scarcity that (accurately) produces this situation is a feature only of socialism is dishonesty.

>>17703889
That's already happening, who gives a shit? Private institutions already teach people far left ideas.

>>17703852
>Social democracy is NOT socialism. It is a form of capitalism. More specifically, capitalism with a welfare state

>Social democracy is NOT redistributing wealth
>Social democracy is NOT racial and economic equality
>Social democracy is NOT a bunch of Jews on a debate stage attacking rich people
Could have fooled me. Your shill narratives fall apart immediately, swiss cheese.

>>17703873
Destroyed by facts? Are you memeing right now? Because you seem pretty retarded. Pretty sure I addressed what you said before I went into how retarded zognald is.

>>17703889
>Yea giving the government the sole power to brainwash our children, what could go wrong.
its way better if corporations brainwash the kids
fucking kill yourself already

>>17703852
Democratic socialism isn't just about government control, it's about worker ownership over the means of production. That's why Bernie advocates for policies that would put ordinary workers on corporate boards, etc. In other areas of basic human need (food, healthcare, housing) he supports decommodification because markets are failing to meet human needs and capital is becoming increasingly concentrated/monopolistic (and hence capitalists have the ability to perform price discrimination). In other areas, he supports the enforcement of antitrust laws to maintain competitive markets. You're totally mischaracterizing his position and aims, but it's part for the course for republican know-nothings.

>>17703922
>Oh he only advocated for full communism a few decades ago, you cant hold that against him now that hes running for president.
Yes I can, and everyone who isnt a communist will. This is equivalent to the satirical argument that we should all vote for an anti-racist Hitler because come on man, hes learned his lesson. Thats ignoring that Hitler did nothing wrong but this is kiked language you should understand even. All you shills argue in bad faith, we dont care about you anymore, go join antifa, beat up some white people for all I care. Youre all going to get shot.

>>17703916
It's by definition not socialism. Socialism is an economy with state owned means of production i.e. industry nationalization.

Social democracy IS a capitalist framework. Sometimes it is referred to as a mixed economy, because you need capitalist to pay for all the 'gibs me dat' and other excessive social programs.

BUT you still have strong private property rights, a market economy, a business/entrepreneur friendly legal system. Thus, capitalism. A select few industries that are state owned or state run. Like healthcare or transportation.

With that said, a system of social democracy is the surest and fastest way towards socialism, and every good commie/marxist will use the political strategy called Incrementalism, to institute social democracy before heading straight into socialism.

THIS IS LITERALLY WHAT BERNIE IS DOING. He's a commie trying to sneak in socialism under the guise of social democracy. Just say fucking NO to these kike rats.

>>17703933
>muh corporations

Private schools are under market discipline you fucking retard. Parents vote with their dollars, just like any other service. If the school is shit, parents will stop sending their kids, and the shit school goes bankrupt.

The good schools prosper, and there will be competition between schools to fight for customers, overall increasing the quality of all.

In government schools you don't have a fucking choice. You eat shit like you are told to like a good little bootlicking servant.

Now KYS

>>17703934
>worker ownership over the means of production
Its a fucking fiction.

It will ALWAYS be state owned. Every socialist country ends up this way.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "WORKER OWNED" or "COLLECTIVE OWNERSHIP". These are euphemisms to fool the useful idiot goyim into giving up control.

It's ALWAYS STATE OWNERSHIP

KYS marxist faggots.

>>17704018
>If the school is shit, parents will stop sending their kids, and the shit school goes bankrupt.
No one actually does that lol, most people just send their kids to school in whatever city they live in, regardless of what takes place there.
Or in the case of college, most people will just stick it out through a shitty school to get the sheet of paper.

>>17704045
>most people just send their kids to school in whatever city they live in, regardless of what takes place there.

Not when they have to pay, they don't.

Democratic socialism would never work in countries that have brown and black people.

>>17698985
There are no mega rich in europe, as soon as someone makes it they go to the U.S.A to continue doing business there.

>>17704067
And yet they're still fully functioning 1st world countries with functioning economies, how funny is that

>>17703988
>Socialism is an economy with state owned means of production
Thats communism, of which socialism may be used interchangeably but marxist socialism by definition is the 3 things I described. It only becomes communism when it also bans private property and the state seizes the means of production (from the citizens, who own nothing). This is portrayed as the citizens or the people seizing the means of production, which is why they are called useful idiots. Look up marxism, thats socialism minus communism.

>>17704062
It doesn't work in ANY country.

These fags have yet to even point to one "democratic socialist" country they want to model. Venezuela is a good example, but they don't want to own it after it went to shit (just like all socialist countries eventually do)

I still remember Bernie told everyone that Venezuela was the real American dream right before people were forced to eat their own pets to survive.

Now rats are all saying "but dat wasnt real socialism hehehehe" or in the case of Bernie, just never fucking bring it up anymore.

>>17703949
1. Yeah peoples minds change over decades. He probably said it before you were even born.
2. Sanders hasn't committed or advocated for genocide over groups of people.
3. I've been on /pol/ probably longer than you, you absolute cuck.
4. Pretty fucking sure you're the bad faith actor. You can't even argue against his current position. You have to go bad 40 years and break logic to say "SEE SOCIALISM? SOCIALISM = COMMUNISM! AND COMMUNISM = STALIN!!!". Literal NPC mindset. Sanders has condemned authoritarian and these types of countries, while advocating Scandinavian countries so many times that you have to actively avoid these statements to go back decades to find something. Now that's bad faith.

>>17704090
>Strong private property rights
>Market economy
>business/entrepreneur friendly legal system

That's capitalism anon, sorry.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
>Economic system
>The Nordic model is underpinned by a mixed-market capitalist economic system that features high degrees of private ownership,[29] with the exception of Norway which includes a large number of state-owned enterprises and state ownership in publicly listed firms.[30]

>The Nordic model is described as a system of **competitive capitalism** combined with a large percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).[3] In 2013, The Economist described its countries as "stout free-traders who resist the temptation to intervene even to protect iconic companies" while also looking for ways to temper capitalism's harsher effects and declared that the Nordic countries "are probably the best-governed in the world".[3][31] Some economists have referred to the Nordic economic model as a form of "cuddly capitalism", with low levels of inequality, generous welfare states and reduced concentration of top incomes, contrasting it with the more "cut-throat capitalism" of the United States which has high levels of inequality and a larger concentration of top incomes.[10][32][33]

So please stop calling the Nordic countries socialist - it's categorically not true, and the argument actually helps the commie fags because they can convince people that socialism actually works really nice over there in Denmark, increasing support for more government power.

>>17704101
>rich people dictate monetary policy that causes stagflation and a lowered standard of living for the lower classes
>derive the overwhelming majority of their wealth from the stock market,
>while also breaking the economy with speculation in the stock market, to increase this wealth at the expense of the populace
>and also automating/outsourcing as many unskilled positions as they can
>while at the same time gutting public education, thus making it increasingly harder for the lower classes to enter high skilled positions that are free of this trap for the foreseeable future
>"but dude like we're all brothers haha think of the finance jews lol"
No

Bernie is the anti-/biz/ candidate, so lets just be happy that he's out, ok?

>>17704140
Bernie is in a logical bind.

He says he is a democratic socialist. He honeymoons in the USSR. He praises communist regimes, Ortega, Castro, Chavez.

But he wants to just be like Denmark, which is not a democratic socialist country. It's a capitalist WHITE ethnostate.

Meaning; he's a liar and extremely deceptive in his real intentions.

>>17697196
Hey, down syndrome. We are literally the only 1st world country without universal healthcare.
By your logic, all first world countries but the u.s. are socialism.

Imagine being this fucking stupid. Holy SHIT. Trump supporters have down syndrome.

>>17703988
>With that said, a system of social democracy is the surest and fastest way towards socialism

Bingo. Also, this method isn't even new. Lenin was on the central committee of the Russian Social Democratic Party.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Social_Democratic_Labour_Party
The oppression they screech about is just a projection of what they personally wish to implement. The Marxists in pre-revolutionary Russia decried the Czar's use of political prisons and suppression, and yet when the Marxist came into power they immediately made the prisons 100 times bigger and moved them to Siberia.

The same antifa Bernie-tards screaming about compassion for the children of illegal immigrants are the same people who would be cheerfully running the killing fields and gulags against Christians, whites, and any other "counter-revolutionary" forces in society that they hate. These people are not "misguided" 99% of the time, they are dangerous sociopaths, pathological leeches, and human pieces of shit that must be opposed at all times and on all points.

>>17704184
>which is not a democratic socialist country. It's a capitalist WHITE ethnostate.
No, it definitely is a democratic socialist country. They have free education, free healthcare and high taxes.

Oui

>>17704204
impeding private business from offering services with premiums and copayment is virtually socialism buddy

>>17704205
>These people are not "misguided" 99% of the time, they are dangerous sociopaths, pathological leeches, and human pieces of shit that must be opposed at all times and on all points.
You mean like the bankers who have just destroyed the economy twice in 20 years?

>>17701387
Capitalism has nothing to do with consent

>>17704184
I believe he became much more moderate in the 90's or so.

>>17704184
Every single thing you just said is false. I hope you're a troll other wise you're pretty fucking low IQ.

>He says he is a democratic socialist. He honeymoons in the USSR.
You know both of these can be true, right?

>He praises communist regimes, Ortega, Castro, Chavez.
A lot of lies. He hasn't praised these leaders. Maybe some of their socialist policies like some literacy program and such. He's always been agaisnt authoritarian regimes.

>Denmark, which is not a democratic socialist country. It's a capitalist WHITE ethnostate.

>high welfare state
>free healthcare
>free education college/universities
>high taxes

>Ethnostate
>accepts brown immigrants and refugees
Lel


Why are you lying and being deceptive?

>>17701190
>your land is yours until Bezos decides he wants it to build amazon 3.5
>you refuse to leave
>he offers double, triple. quadruple your home's value for that land
>you take it, happy with your earnings and him content with his land
Capitalism

>>17704217
Wrong - It's capitalist as explained here >>17704160

Or you can let the Prime Minister of Denmark explain it, if you are a bit slow in the head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO7wgS5tdz4

>>17704287
Not a motherfuckign counter argument to what I said, "buddy".
Not only that, but necessities shouldn't even be for profit to begin with, dipshit bootlicker.

Anyways, again, according to your dumbass, LITERALLY every 1st world country other than the u.s. is socialism. What the FUCK?
Nice job avoiding that. Probably because it makes you look stupid so you brush what I said under the rug.

>>17704377
You're again confusing the terms "socialist" and "democratic socialist". One is a form of capitalism, the other is not.

>>17704287
Also, it is your so.i boy cum munching logic that is actually WHY this country is fucked up the ass.

Hot cheetos for instance. That's a luxury product. I couldnt give 2 shits if that were priced at a million dollars a bag. It is the companies right.

NECESSITIES are a WHOLE different story. Real estate being for profit for instance = america is FUCKED for the 99%.

Consuming products should be a CHOICE. Real estate is NOT a choice. It's either paying a lazy neet bitch or homelessness. Fucking retarded. Everyone at MINIMUM is entitled to a small piece of land. Not even a fucking home. Just the fucking land at minimum.

Also, we actually basically live in a socialist country. It's socialism for the rich and everyone else gets assraped

>>17697268
>you get a lease from the government dependent on whatever the government defines.
That's any land if you don't pay the tax man.

>>17704217
>"Denmark is democratic socialist"
>Government Party is Social Democrats in the image anon uses as fucking evidence

Well done anon

>>17704370
>he offers double, triple. quadruple your home's value for that land
>you refuse it because you value your property rights, knowing that land is always the best investment
>government stooges come to force you out
>>>>>>capitalism
Wake up kid, we already live in an unfree market. Do you want the planned economy to work in favor of your economic interests, or your bosses'?

>>17704205
Based and redpilled.

Agree on the last point as well - I don't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. Those who at first seem to be ignorant or misguided, once you probe a bit into their moral framework, are actually straight up demonic evil, like all communists are.

You can never get a Bernie supporter to denounce communism, or any of the evils committed by communists. Many will openly admit to being communist, and say they actually wish Bernie was a commie (newsflash: he is).
They will always dodge, deflect and make excuses, or make a surface level dismissal for 100 million murdered - "yeah genocide was kinda bad, but..." while at the same time being completely hysterical about Nazism

Very VERY sick people.

>>17699067

>>17704449
>government stooges violate law
>this is somehow private properties fault
lel you're telling me to vote in a way that gives the government more power

>>17704458
>You can never get a Bernie supporter to denounce communism, or any of the evils committed by communists
Retarded. Btfod here: >>17704380
>>17704422
>>17704204

Let me guess. You are going to vote for the retard again? https://youtu.be/948gPEabWLE

>>17700735

>>17704323
No, he just pretends to be because he realized he couldn't get elected to fucking anything while being openly communist.

He's marxist to the core. Commie rat scum

>>17704403
>socialism is actually capitalism

Imagine being this retarded.

>>17704497
Retardo. Here: >>17704486

>>17704486
Yes, the entire country turns red in november, including californa. Trump 2nd term - no optics cucking necessary - when that happens, people like you get helicopter rides.

Can't fucking wait.

Hey BERNIE BROS could one of you explain what he meant by this?
>When you're white in this country you don't know what it's like to live in a ghetto. You don't know what it's like to be poor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6IlGoeDIUQ

Ive been up all night so Im going to sleep. Ik how dogmatic sheep trumptard rethuglicucks are. I mean 62% of trump supporters would vote for him no matter what.

You know what that's called? A cult. Well I am satisfied with my btfo arguments that fucking destroyed these retards (basic arguments but in the same time, that's all that was needed as these disingenuous bootlickers have the fundamentals all wrong) so I'm off to bed.

>>17704506
You are literally brain dead, no point responding to anything you write. You are wrong on all points in all your comments, you haven't said a single thing that is even remotely intelligent.

I shouldn't even have dignified any of your batshit stupid comments with a (you).

Stop posting and go dilate your stinkhole, trannyfag.

>>17704494
>a white bitch ever talking to a superior Asian like that.

>>17704478
>government stooges violate law
Wrong because the government defines their actions as lawful
>this somehow isn't the private company's fault even though they are handing out the bribes which produced this sequence of events
Also wrong
>you're telling me to vote in a way that gives the government more power
Wrong again. The government has all the power it needs already. I'm telling you to vote for the people who want to exercise that power in your interests, not the bank's

>>17704532
>no see THIS time it'll be different!
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

>>17704532
Kek you didnt click the video, did you? What a cuck. Truth hurts, that's why, huh? :)

And yes, biden will probably beat bernie due to how the establishment (gay mayor, warren, bloomberg, and that other dumb bitch all basically quit in the same time to give more support to the centralist biden) ganged up on bernie with under handed tactics.

Biden will lose to trump. I am not arguing against that. I am however saying trump is a retard. Click the link you are so afraid of, incest lover redneck. Facts dont care about your feelings. Trump is a terrible president. Stock market is dying like it has aids and not even the fed can save it. The economy is shit. Unemployment rates are misleading since labor participation rate has been decreasing and discouraged workers arent included as unemployed making it look lower than it really is. 78% of fulltime workers live paycheck to paycheck. 50% of renters are cost burdened. 30% of jobs pay hardship wages and 32% pay livable wages. Both basically being poverty wages.

Etc. The guy is lazy and retarded. He hasnt handled the virus epidemic well at all. The dumbass even postulated once about wanting to nuke hurricanes. Etc.

He is a fucking retard. Im not even saying this as a lefty. Im saying this at an objective standpoint.

>>17704532
Anyways, retards will be retards. Keep sucking off your cult leader. I'm going to sleep. I have utterly destroyed you soiboy rethuglicucks sufficiently anyways.

>>17697196
You seem lost. You're already in a dystopian socialist oligarchy, you're just too blinded by identity politics to see the corporate socialism every politician hands out.

Bernie appeals only to the lowest common denominator.

>>17704569
>You are wrong on all points in all your comments, you haven't said a single thing that is even remotely intelligent.
Lol
>>17704612
^that's a SMALL list of specific stuff. I'll add one more from memory. The retard did a government shutdown a while ago due to a temper tantrum over his wall. The dumbass said "it is a national emergency" and later stupidly accidentally said it wasnt actually a national emergency. Kek.
Another recent example was how he assassinated that one Iranian general and almost sparked a war. Fucking idiot.

Again, keep your memes, soiboy. I win the argument.