/biz/ - Business & Finance

"free" healthcare? big yikes, sweaty.

>>17547630
Sorry champ, you are well on your way to being replaced by software. If you don’t learn how to code, build, maintain that software, you are toast.

>>17548396
why not?

>>17547630
there is no 'free healthcare' anywhere in the world
the only place doctors work for free is when they go to Africa to virtue signal by giving vaccines to nigger children

>>17549482
are you 8 years old?

>>17548396
Considered how much you retarded Americans pay, it can be considered pretty free

>>17549482
>>17550105
>"free" healthcare
>forced to pay thousands every year
its only free for ahmad and tyrone you stupid eurocucks

>>17550160
>Dumb Unitedstatian pays 2 to 3 times as much for a worse healthcare
Oh I'm laughing

Politics politics politics
It never ends
It's like you people are constantly trying to rape my mind with horseshit. Can't get away from it. Might do some bad shit in minecraft if I ever find out where you people live

>>17548396
So the UK, Canada, and Switz get healthcare for free at point of service while paying the same or less taxes as mutts who also have to pay insane put of pocket costs... oof.

>>17547630
>>17548396
>>17549482
>>17549864
>>17549913
>>17550105
>>17550160
>>17550189
>>17550253
Kill yourselves, honestly

>>17550275
beg

>>17550189
>for a worse healthcare
American healthcare is expensive but it is fast and better than most water-downed socialized healthcare

>>17550160
COPE retard, I don't pay at all. I only pay myself £8k & take the rest of my earnings as dividend payments. Its literally free.Learn how to structure your finances properly.
Burgerland is a third world shithole! Sorry you've been brianwashed by your peers into thinking you're free when you actually live in a police state

>>17547630

>hey hey I have this great idea
>let's let people CHOOSE their profession
>but if they choose doctor, we chain them to a wall and force them to work for nothing
>OH NO WE RAN OUT OF SKILLED DOCTORS WHO COULD HAVE SEEN THIS COMING

Bernie bros everyone

>>17550372
that's not what happens
doctors earn more since tax payers are now paying extra for unhealthy people
>>17550317
meanwhile you get raped by taxes over every fucking product you buy, but sure, you're the one tricking the system bud

So many burgers triggered. This is euro power hour go to sleep

>>17550540
You still pay lots of taxes and you get neither healthcare nor education.
I'm not going to america HAHAHAHA

>>17550554
These neets stayed up all night in america and yet still defend their system.
It's like digging your own grave.
They don't have jobs they don't have cash. And they're proud of something they cannot afford. It's the culture of worshipping rich dudes.

>>17550540
>meanwhile you get raped by taxes over every fucking product you buy, but sure, you're the one tricking the system bud
Nice try, I pay WAY less tax here than i did in burgerland, especially once you include insurance. Also COPE with the fact you've probably never left your state & are arrogant about the world outside of your police state.

I am the one thats getting a better deal than you!

>>17550571
Above applies to you also

>>17550540
>meanwhile you get raped by taxes over every fucking product you buy, but sure, you're the one tricking the system bud
Nice try, I pay WAY less tax here than i did in burgerland, especially once you include insurance. Also COPE with the fact you've probably never left your state & are arrogant about the world outside of your police state.

I am the one thats getting a better deal than you!

>>17550580
what job do you work?

>>17547630
There should be a version of Pokemon where healthcare costs money and you can go into debt. And when you go far enough into debt, men in suits show up and take your Pokémon based on their value. Get poor enough and lose all your Pokémon and its game over.

>>17550253
>canadian healthcare
>worth anything at all, let alone the cost to taxpayers
>not controlling as fuck
>not literally life-destroying to some people who invariably end up having to rely on it because private healthcare both generally isn't a thing outside of naturopaths, probably because of a combination of legal issues and the fact that margins for government-subsidized general practitioners are incredibly high and all they really have to do most of the time is prescribe teenagers antidepressants and give old people flu shots
>implying that the issue with US healthcare isn't overregulation and the legal barriers (and their ensuing costs) to becoming a doctor being ridiculously high, just as it is everywhere else
most people here with common sense literally wind up avoiding the hospital at all costs because if you go there, you're both likely to catch a cold or flu from waiting in a lobby around other sick people for so long, and all they generally do in the end anyway is tell you to go home and get some rest or take a tylenol
if you come in requesting permission to buy a specific medication, you're likely to get rejected and have this MD insist on a prescription to the medicine that they want you to buy (despite it oftentimes having numerous users who report plenty of life-altering side effects); the potential for corruption is just totally ridiculous, these practitioners are clearly either getting kickbacks from pharma corporations, or pharma corps are in control of the universities to some degree and have the ability to punish the doctors for not using their products specifically (probably on grounds of safety)
i have been put through this godforsaken system—and only thanks to the ability to buy research chemicals on the free market, it hasn't been a death/end-of-life sentence
arguing for "free" health care is essentially to argue that you want to give up your natural right to choice in exchange for the mere promise of adequate service from government

>>17547630
>Anon has legit question
>Mouth breathing ameritards who can only see the image ruin the thread defending their shitty system
Like pottery.

>>17551147
>implying that op wasn't introoding on the board and trying to start a leftypol pro-healthcare thread
>implying we weren't trying to get him to rationalize his illogical position
you don't know how subversive, collectivist ideologies work, do you anon

>>17551295
Op knows how to keep a /thread bumped
>implying we weren't trying to get him to rationalize his illogical position
>you don't know how subversive, collectivist ideologies work, do you anon
Project much?

>arguing for "free" health care is essentially to argue that you want to give up your natural right to choice in exchange for the mere promise of adequate service from government
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Is that statement country specific? sounds misinformed, but think Canada might do that from memory.

Private care here is cheaper & just as good if not better than the states, as the ones with experience are private.

COPE harder mutt

>>17551069
To be fair Canada is the worst model in any rich developed country besides the US.

But overall it's completely obvious universal healthcare is superior.

The US provides the worst performance across 72 indicators in a comparison between 11 developed nations: https://interactives.commonwealthfund.org/2017/july/mirror-mirror/

Any other healthcare index will tell a similar story. Even when you take metrics like access and equity out of the equation.

Even down to individual outcomes of these cancers and cardiovascular diseases, several countries all with UHC top the US 5/6 times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_quality_of_healthcare

The one area the US generally has an advantage over public systems (but not mixed), is wait times: https://askepticalhuman.com/politics/2018/9/10/debunking-right-wing-healthcare-myths-wait-times-rationing

Even still, this advantage is not large and not consistent, mixed systems perform on par and the UK's single payer system has shorter ER wait times on average. And of course, any particular advantage must be weighted against particular disadvantages, such as medical bills being the leading cause of personal bankruptcy only in the US.

And finally all of these countries spend substantially less on healthcare as a % of GDP, most of them almost half as much.

>>17551718
I can't wait to see these countries stats when they have the same nigger-tier demographics that the US has.

>>17547630
That's actually free vet care. There are no human doctors.

>>17550540

>doctors earn more since tax payers are now paying extra for unhealthy people

So the people who divide the spoils of taxation will make the doctors rich? Won't they have to drastically increase taxes since now people who aren't paying are getting care? Wouldn't costs for taxpayers explode as a result, for the same care they received before everyone else dismissing that they probably have to wait longer now?

>>17551456
>implying that individualism is subversive
me having the option not to pay you for services i never commissioned from you isn't a violation of your human rights you fucking idiot
how many ancaps or libertarians do you see invading generally leftist forums, let alone putting up threads on boards where they literally DO NOT BELONG? putting up a pro-universal healthcare thread on a business and finance board is like putting up an essentially pro-gun control on /k/, for fuck's sake; this isn't a discussion on how to make money on it and thus it's purely a debate of morality and politics, so it belongs on /pol/
if we don't confront him, he continues putting up these threads and sockpuppeting pro-uni healthcare responses until leftist newfags who come in think they're at home and then the board becomes a leftist shithole; it's subversive as fuck. all collectivism IS subversive as fuck.

>private care in canada is cheaper, better than the states
i live in nova scotia and honestly don't know what you're referring to; the ONLY private practices i see here are chiropractors and naturopaths, and while they provide better service than hospitals despite good ones usually being pretty solidly booked, their cost adds up to a small fortune after a few visits—and you can bet that, since they know there's a strong lack of any serious competition, you'll get taken in every once in awhile. plus, we're talking about fucking NATUROPATHS for christ's sake, not practitioners who are allowed to use any modern medicine without their institution and license suffering serious government scrutiny.
maybe you live in ontario, and there are some well-connected institutions in this shithole keynesian economy that don't get the ball clamps lain on them for experimenting with actual useful, cutting-edge medicine; i have no idea, but whatever the case, no, it is not a common thing ANYWHERE in the maritimes.

>>17551456
>implying that individualism is subversive
me having the option not to pay you for services i never commissioned from you isn't a violation of your human rights you fucking idiot
how many ancaps or libertarians do you see invading generally leftist forums, let alone putting up threads on boards where they literally DO NOT BELONG? putting up a pro-universal healthcare thread on a business and finance board is like putting up an essentially pro-gun control thread on /k/, for fuck's sake; this isn't a discussion on how to make money on it and thus it's purely a debate of morality and politics, so it belongs on /pol/
if we don't confront him, he continues putting up these threads and sockpuppeting pro-uni healthcare responses until leftist newfags who come in think they're at home and then the board becomes a leftist shithole; it's subversive as fuck. all collectivism IS subversive as fuck.

>private care in canada is cheaper, better than the states
i live in nova scotia and honestly don't know what you're referring to; the ONLY private practices i see here are chiropractors and naturopaths, and while they provide better service than hospitals despite good ones usually being pretty solidly booked, their cost adds up to a small fortune after a few visits—and you can bet that, since they know there's a strong lack of any serious competition, you'll get taken in every once in awhile. plus, we're talking about fucking NATUROPATHS for christ's sake, not practitioners who are allowed to use any modern medicine without their institution and license suffering serious government scrutiny.
maybe you live in ontario, and there are some well-connected institutions in this shithole keynesian economy that don't get the ball clamps lain on them for experimenting with actual useful, cutting-edge medicine; i have no idea, but whatever the case, no, it is not a common thing ANYWHERE in the maritimes.

>>17547630

>>17550189
>worse

>>17552743
You need to understand that there are other places in the world. I don't pay, as I've said in previous posts. Sadly, Canadians don't leave their state much either & are ignorant about the world around them.

You go off with ramblings without a broad understand of how things operate in the world, now even though I am Canadian, I've never been to one of your hospitals nor do i understand your system. I can only compare Burger v UK hospitals. I can tell you that burgers are some of the dumbest most ignorant people on this world. With that brings this BS about how their hospitals are the best & social health care is shit, this is not reality in my experience.

Over here I can pay for private if I choose, its cheap & high quality as I said. You always have a choice, jump on a plane, your bitching isn't going to change shit. You chose to live in Canada, you made the choice to have that health care, if you don't like it move. A true ancap would go to the country that best suited him.

>>17551718
Canadian healthcare is done at a provincial level and they spend 50% of each provinces (states) budget for that horrible healthcare.

>>17552768
See>>17553241
Love to see the butt hurt about you being too poor to move or some childish shit about how you're right & Canada needs to change.

>Swedish law stipulates patients should wait no more than 90 days to undergo surgery or see a specialist. Yet every third patient waits longer, according to government figures.

>Patients must also see a general practitioner within seven days, the second-longest deadline in Europe after Portugal (15 days).

>Yet waiting times vary dramatically across Sweden's 21 counties responsible for financing hospitals.

>One dental patient in central Dalarna county told AFP six months passed before his check-up, while emergency room queues at Stockholm's largest hospitals average four hours.

>The 2016 nationwide median wait for prostate cancer surgery was 120 days, but 271 days in the northern county of Vasterbotten, official figures show.

>Swedes also complain about not being able to see their own regular general practitioner—and the ensuing lack of continuity—as a growing number of doctors and nurses are temporary hires employed by staffing companies.

>Some 80 percent of the healthcare sector is in need of nurses, according to official data.

Imagine being an Europoor paying 60%+ taxes for his """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""free"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" healthcare, waiting 3 months to see a doctor, and dabbing on americans.

>>17553902
Import the third world, become the third world.

>>17550309
I'm mildly curious, humor me.
Bong announced, up to 80% of the population could end up with bataids. No sure what the hospitalization figure would be from that, but, it would be a lot. NOW, if we extrapolate those figures to Freedomonia. They are (currently) charging $3000 fir a fucking bataids TEST. How in fuck are the majority of a population supposed to pay that, never mind hospitalization, which for this, is pretty intense. And fuck off with 'insurance' - most Burgers deductibe wouldn't cover it. What you have there is not a health system fit for a crisis. Its a giant Ponzi, a House of Cards that will collapse at the first sniff of a good ole-fashioned pandemic

Imagine your country not having a safety-net

>>17550105
You commies will be extinct soon

>>17553241
>"you're not the only one in the world; things work differently elsewhere from the places you've been; canadians don't leave their provinces and are thus ignorant to the world around them"
>proceeds to argue that things work a certain way where he has been in contrast to where i have been, or something
with regards to this particular point of discussion, i don't see what you're getting at(—though, i do see quite a bit of irony)
if you are arguing that things, under a mostly centrally-planned system, DO happen to work better than they do where i live and in my experiences, then this is sort of the problem with grounding your ideas strictly off of the results of yours and a few others' personal experiences rather than thinking rationally about how the system works on a fundamental level; a collectivized system in which people are taxed in order to give central planners funds to decide what goods and services people will get has—among countless other things (there are seriously so many fundamental flaws with collectivizing things it's unreal, and although i'm at work i'd be happy to explain them to you because it's such a goddamned catastrophe to the people who are capable of producing a net positive of wealth)—the effect of removing the potential burden and consequences of poor management of funds from the individual, and instead places it on the entirety of the group that is paying into the medical system. this is to say that if nobody is looking out for their money (and when's the last time that you've been to the emergency room and seen a comprehensive bill of costs for whatever service you get), then YOU get punished for it. your money is taken from you one way or the other and the system is paid whether or not it produces desirable results—and what incentive does the system have to produce desirable results?

>>17555720
Get fucked think tank commie

>>17553241
>>17553571
so, what i got from this second post was
>"you have the choice, while continuing to pay for things that you neither asked for nor want, to hop on a plane at your own expense and leave the place of your and your family's heritage to seek medical treatment in another country out of necessity over the inepitude of doctors in your area all because the financial and medical systems in your place of origin have been subverted by a group of people hundreds of miles away from you, and this is entirely fair because i want free health care and you want to be an ancap."
mate

>>17553571
and you're implying that I'M the one thinking that others need to change? no, mate—my entire argument is grounded on the principle that nobody should HAVE to change over anyone else's demands; if you want to opt into free healthcare and its implications then that's all fine and dandy—it's the MOMENT that you start FORCING me to pay from the place that i call my home that there is a serious fucking problem. don't you DARE try to tell me that I'M the one who is demanding that other people change their ways for his own benefit, you weaselly little communist motherfucker.

>>17553241
>>17553571
>>17555800
>>17555851
>>17555951
bumping this in the event that you intend on responding

>>17557136
one more bump

>>17553241
>>17553571
let the record stand that you had all the time in the world to reply—and that the implication in your most recent post was that you were intent on seeing what i had to say
on the above discussion alone, i won't keep what was initially a leftist shill thread alive any longer
very interesting how confident you seemed to be in your irrational stance that it was i and not you who was demanding that others change their ways to suit his own needs
we all get what we deserve