/biz/ - Business & Finance

>real DD
>no replies
/biz/nis as usual I see

Sorry OP, youre about 3 years too late... you had another opp back in june, but you missed the launch. just wait it out until it pulls back to ~450 before getting in

>>17254714
Was a doubter and bought 3 whole shares a few months ago for fun, in disbelief of this run. Waiting for a cooldown to buy more. This and SPCE are cult stocks with cultists like yourself who will always buy...it's like the Chainlink of the stock market.

>>17254868
I actually bought TSLA at 240 but got cold feet like a retard. Fortunately I still made a bit on options.

Also, I was in SPCE at $7. I was way in before everyone else.

>>17254924
Nice entry anon. Wish I had the foresight to get those options, only started fucking with options recently. TSLA and SPCE are stocks fueled by hype right now, be careful about your expectations...going to take years for their/your tech dreams to be fully realized.

>>17254996
I buy options and convert to stock.
SPCE is only valued at 5b. Thats waaaaaaaaay low. They aren't just "space tourism," they will be commercial hypersonic flight.
Tesla is basically the GE of our time. When GE started out, they were THE INNOVATORS, they invented EVERYTHING and there isn't a single modern home without one of their products. GE isn't doing so hot today, but thats what happens when you get big. Tesla is look at cornering a multi trillion dollar market.

>>17254602
they don't provide batteries to panasonic, you dumb faggot. panasonic provides batteries to them.

SPCE still worth getting in at $28? Will it figuratively moon cause everyone's jerking off to these genius billionaires?

>>17255052
Sorry, I misspoke, they don't provide batteries, they provide battery TECH. Panasonic is the manufacturer, along with others. It also shows growth if they need so many batteries.
https://electrek.co/2020/02/03/chinese-battery-giant-catl-confirms-supply-agreement-with-tesla/

>>17255059
Right now, I would just buy stock because it might dip, options are super expensive at the moment.

>>17255098
might go in for 200 shares and forget about it.

My hope is that this hasn't mooned to oblivion by next year when my linkies are $100 and eth is $5000, then i take out 25% out of crypto and put it in TSLA

>>17254602
Tesla
if you aren't buying, you are missing out on the next pasin thing. People are just now realizing what tesla really is.

>electric ring long telipon leader (disruptor)
as wanpela ring long telipon company, tesla is nothing special. They don't sell many cars karamapim tok they are pretty mastamisis, ol waitman. However, they only make what they need. They have the most advanced ring long telipon making factories in the world. They are only wanpela small market share bamim that just means room to grow, karamapim tok they're growing dia. More orders every quarter, karamapim tok their biggest marketeers are their own customers!

>automated driving (trucks)
this is the pasin one. Tesla is way ahead on self driving cars, they have leading teams karamapim tok tons of real world experience from their cars driving rum the world right now. They will be the first to put out self driving semi-trucks which will revolutionize shipping. It could be worth trillions.

>batteries
often overlooked, tesla is the top paspas researching company in the world. They not only make thier own batteries for their cars, they wanpela tasol provide batteries to other companies like panasonic. In narapela (more);", they will show off their new paspas tech, gamtri, kamarere abus glas bilong kapten out ami that time.

>spacex
obviously tesla isn't spacex, bamim its the rum slip way to tangentially invest in spacex until the time comes. Alternatively you could Bipi virgin galactic (spce) which has quadrupled in price in the last 6 months.

get in

>>17254602
It's shilled my Jim Cramer and normies. Bubble is in, only laggards buy now.

>>17254602
>just buy the top goyim

>>17255384
Don't get your hopes up for any of that happening

Buy Tachyon Protocol, they will revolutionalize crypto,thank me later their astromonical success makes them a must have

Buy Tachyon Protocol, they will revolutionalize crypto, thank me later,the astronomical success in such a short time, makes they the top pick in crypto

So you mean to tell me, you think the market is right at valuing the company at $144,373,413,800?

That's literally 64.095% of Amazon's total assets as of 12/31/19. You really think a company that sells THAT FEW THINGS, can be valued that high realistically? Amazon has LOADS of products and services, Tesla on the other hand is very niche and very limited. Not to mention they're levered up over 2x over on debt. Really dude? $144,373,413,800?

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/TSLA/tesla/financial-ratios

https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000156459020004475/tsla-10k_20191231.htm#ITEM_15_EXHIBITS_FINANCIAL_STATEMENT_SCH

Links attached for substantiation.

>>17256953
Also, banks if you are reading this and you want an employee at lesser than average industry pay, let me know.

>>17254602
Physics bro here, let me give you some advice. I Know a lot about batteries, the technical aspects of batteries as well as practical uses for them. Knowing this also means I know the limitations of batteries, and let me tell you now, tesla is not far off reaching the peak of pragmatic battery use and performance (all downhill from there).

Batteries are heavy, and they have to store all the energy that goes into them, and they need some form of charging, which grounds the car until the battery is charged. Those are all just simple downsides which naturally make cars obsolete to what im talking about, which is this:


If you want to be a real smartie, you will invest your time and money into a new form of fuel being studied and developed, called hydrogen. Hydrogen fuel cells are light (hydrogen being the lightest gas along with helium), which combine with oxygen to power and drive the electrics in a car. No need for a heavy ass battery and charging, the fuel is created "on the go", with the capability of storage and supply available. It is literally a magic car, powered by air. THIS is the next big thing. Invest in this. That is my advice.

You're fucking retarded if you believe Tesla is worth anywhere near this price

>>17254602
Already own 75 $TSLA. Bought at $180 (average).

>>17257882
Yes but big oil will probably lobby hard against it, considered oil's profitability vs prospective hydrogen. Pair that with the various pitfalls of hydrogen and it's a bit of an issue. In fact, people have already run cars on hydrogen, some got engines over 60mpg from a V8 in the 80s, thing is, big oil bought them out. Pretty sure they're in bed with a number of politicians as well.

Why do you think they didn't fund Tesla for his free energy project?

>>17257882
The problem with that seems to be mainly the fact that its hard to store and pure hydrogen explodes easily.

>>17257982
You might be right, but in todays day and age, the consumer wants a clean alternative. Of course big oil can make it profitable by buying up hydrogen car startups, and advertising it to the consumer as "GOOD CLEAN CAR NO EMISSIONS NO PETROL REQUIRED GOOD PEOPLE WILL BUY IT"

They can charge a stupidly high price for it, and people will still buy it.

>>17258037
This isnt hindenburg, there are very safe methods of storing hydrogen.

>>17254602
>just finished their big Chinese factory and China collapses
Really like Tesla but shan't invest

>>17258067
>takes 13% of the energy to compress it

I am not buying elon bags sir

>>17254996
>Wish I had the foresight to get those options
How could have you?
No one could forsee that

>>17255041
>SPCE
it's shilled too much here recently...why? I don't get it... it's only a start up
virgin galctic could do the '''tric'' better than this one because it has more money than this

>>17257882
>If you want to be a real smartie, you will invest your time and money into a new form of fuel being studied and developed, called hydrogen
shill some companies physic bro please.
I' ll buy them all

>>17254602
Tesla could issue more shares of stock on a whim, as they have previously. Bitcoin is entirely fixed to 21 million coins.
Bitcoin is the long term competitor to Amazon, banks, and the government itself.

>>17257982
>Yes but big oil will probably lobby hard against it
they will do the same with batteries and EV

>>17258427
Yeah I don't like that Musk's compensation is based on market cap. The youtube shills, with their meager stock holdings, genuinely seem to think Musk has to make them millionaires to get those payments.

>Bitcoin is the long term competitor to Amazon, banks, and the government itself.
Bitcoiners are annoyingly retarded. So close yet so far.

>>17258037
>he believes the explosive hydrogen meme

>>17258186
>technology will never improve

>>17258400
Ballard Power Systems Inc.
Bing Energy Inc.
Freudenberg SE,
Horizon Fuel Cell Technologies Pte. Ltd.
Hydrogenics Corp.
Nuvera Fuel Cells LLC,
Plug Power Inc.
PowerCell Sweden AB,
Proton Power Systems Plc
Sunrise Power Co. Ltd.

>>17258627
Apparently that's the case with batteries but not pressurised vessels?

>>17258646
thank you
are these the best of the best of Index funds or there is also some underdog inside?

>>17254602
Gb2reddit stupid elon fellating niggerfaggot. All of this shit is hype only. Ridea the high and sell because the bubble will pop.

>>17258037
>hard to store
Tell that to any of the heavy industrial sites storing literally millions of kg of H2.
>H2 will explode
Yes it can but pressure vessels are quite effective and a mature technology. That said, I'd much prefer to store the H2 in my car in something other than pure form that is safer and have it go through a chemical reaction before being combusted but that's another generation from now I think.

>>17258708
no idea fren. I just pulled them from here:
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200212005364/en/Hydrogen-Fuel-Cell-Stacks-Market-2019-2023-Favorable/?feedref=JjAwJuNHiystnCoBq_hl-Q-tiwWZwkcswR1UZtV7eGe24xL9TZOyQUMS3J72mJlQ7fxFuNFTHSunhvli30RlBNXya2izy9YOgHlBiZQk2LOzmn6JePCpHPCiYGaEx4DL1Rq8pNwkf3AarimpDzQGuQ==

>>17258708
Not him but those don't look like index funds to me. Stay away from index funds dude. Trust me. Do your research and get an education if you want to know why.

It looks like he posted outright companies.

Gauging by your post you don't know what you're doing. You can tell "underdogs" by looking at balance sheets and SEC filings, then comparing them with consideration to possible and probable demand of their products, what issues they may run into, how good their leadership performs or is likely to perform, and so on. Investing isn't just "well I think this will do this so I'll just throw some money at it and hope for the best". That's gambling. If you want to invest, first you need to assess. You shouldn't buy a car without looking it over. Same goes with investing.

>>17258860
lol. inb4
>nice link faggot

All in on SPCE, then selling half of it when it hits 100

>>17254602
>Tesla isn't SpaceX, but its the best way to tangentially invest in SpaceX until the time comes
Peak reddit logic

>>17258598
>Bitcoiners are annoyingly retarded
It is you who is retarded, anon.
"Our powers, when we aspire to the sight of things so high, are limited by narrow bounds; but great is mans happiness when he has seen that vision."

>>17257882
hey physics bro. what’s your input on the use of graphene in batteries. from what I understand the past decade has been fruitful for graphene researchers and the light weight material could reduce the weight of the batteries and possibly enhance storage capabilities. can you give your physics bro take on this?

>>17258861
true words. read the quarterlies and compare their situation to competitors. research the team and their competence. it’s all about people at the end of the day. can they execute? an idea is shit without action and a company is nothing without people. anon is high IQ

>>17259002
Well it's all about how they work together, how effectively. You can have a great team with a great product, but say for example there is regulation against the product or not enough support for the product (relative demand) to give the company good margins, you could run into some issues. The macro is just as important as the micro. Seems like you're picking up on the what though which is great.

>>17258925
You guys just think bitcoin is magical.
>bitcoin will replace our government with a magically good one
>bitcoin will replace a major logistics company for some reason
>bitcoin will protect my privacy but also I will be able to audit bad guys like the government and big companies
>once bitcoin hits 21mil emission it will keep working just like it did with 50btc subsidies

Wishful thinking gets you started but you have to face reality occasionally and then adapt. Bitcoin has no mechanism for adapting. It was a good experiment and Monero will continue to build upon the success of Proof of Work.

>>17259169
>It was a good experiment and Monero will continue to build upon the success of Proof of Work.
Wishful thinking. Good luck auditing its blockchain for scarcity. Anon coins can get hit with an inflation bug and it won't be known about, whereas Bitcoin is public and the bug can be corrected.

>>17254602
Yeah I sold at 880 with 25 shares. what do you want me to do buy back in at 808? Fuck that. I’m waiting for people to get tired. I’m waiting for the dilution of 1000 to get old.

>>17258221
Musk was an a round tesla investor

>>17254602
Don't bother, the people here are retarded and your effort is wasted. Just let them miss out, it's not like you get anything out of their profit.

t. former TSLA shill who bought at $220, sold at the top, and then bought the dip.

>>17257882
Wrong. Lithium is cheaper than hydrogen. Hydrogen fuel is expensive and complex. Pic related.

>>17258861
>Stay away from index funds dude. Trust me. Do your research and get an education if you want to know why.
theoreticlly index funds should have the most qualified market resechers... so ideally speacking their picks should be acceptable.. why to say away from their picks?

>>17258963
>hey physics bro. what’s your input on the use of graphene in batteries. from what I understand the past decade has been fruitful for graphene researchers and the light weight material could reduce the weight of the batteries and possibly enhance storage capabilities
graphene could be the tec that enanches batteries or a meme and be subsituted by hydrogen... I'd say...

>>17259697
>theoreticlly index funds should have the most qualified market resechers... so ideally speacking their picks should be acceptable.. why to say away from their picks?
The vast majority of them are worse at picking stocks than they would be if they randomly selected them. They are complete garbage.

>>17259697
>>17259749

>>17259002
>read the quarterlies and compare their situation to competitors
do you think that index funds don't lready do this?

$SPCE is laughing
$TSLA is way overpriced atm

>>17259169
>Monero will continue to build upon the success of Proof of Work
If can't scale then Monero can't scale because also Monere is proof or work

>>17259449
>Musk was an a round tesla investor
I mean that no one could have forsee that the price would have skyrockted so much in a so tiny time-frame

>>17259509
>t. former TSLA shill who bought at $220, sold at the top
How did you knew that it'd go higher?

Both Tesla and SPCE are complete meme stocks, just pumped up by easy monetary policy inflating the stock market. Any company with a good meme brand is getting pumped up right now. Tesla could go to $10,000 but eventually it WILL go to $0, so don't be holding that bag. I'd just buy bitcoin because it could do a 10-100x, but that's its end game, not a bubble that is 100% guaranteed to pop eventually and go to zero.

>>17260164
I didn't know for sure what would happen, but I knew there was a high chance the the rest of the market would wake up to it and the price would go up significantly. It was criminally undervalued, six years of consolidation despite them going from manufacturing just thousands of cars per year to hundreds of thousands and destroying not only their EV competition but many ICE counterparts as well.

>>17260243
>I knew there was a high chance the the rest of the market would wake up to it and the price would go up significantly
ok but options they have a date in which they then end up worthless.. how were you so sure that they would have respected that date?
and not be lower in that date?
Could I ask you ho manu options did you buy and for which price and expire date?

>>17260577
I didn't use options. I bought shares outright at an average of around $220, sold at just under $930, and then I started buying again as it dipped.

>>17260216
All you have to do is get in early enough to make 40-60%

>>17260990

Sure just be sure to actually sell and not hold this shit to zero after it starts tanking the moment the federal reserve announces a rate hike or some other macro event murders these zombie companies.

>>17258708
Half of those are pure scams.
t. a guy in the fuel cell industry

>>17254714
>real DD
What do you mean? You haven't said anything insightful.

>>17254602
Much of the stock’s rise was related to Tesla’s earnings, which were announced at the end of January; the company reported a net loss for the year, and a total of 367,500 vehicles sold in 2019.

I find this pretty incredible; Tesla told investors at the beginning of 2019 that they would sell between 360,000 and 400,000 vehicles for the year. They achieved the low end of that estimate.

And that’s great. Congratulations. But the stock price is now multiples higher simply because they did what they said they would do. That’s a pretty low bar.

At $136 billion, Tesla is now worth more than Ford, General Motors, and Nissan COMBINED. Those three companies collectively sell more than 14 million vehicles annually.
According to the company’s most recently financial statements, Tesla lost $745 million in 2019.

Well, that’s OK… newer companies often lose money for several years before they reach maturity while they’re still growing.

But Tesla’s balance sheet also shows total ‘equity’ of just $6.6 billion.

This is essentially Tesla’s ‘net worth’, i.e. the value of all of its assets, including factories, cash, inventory, brand value, etc. minus liabilities like loans and other obligations.

>>17254602
Too late now.

>>17261324
Remember, investors are essentially buying shares of Tesla at a value of $136 billion. This means that people are willing to pay more than TWENTY TIMES what Tesla’s assets are worth even though the company is losing money.

Now let’s look at a mature company to see a comparison.

Volkswagen Group is the largest automobile conglomerate in the world; it owns brands like Porsche, Bugatti, Audi, Bentley, Skoda, Lamborghini, Seat, and of course, Volkswagen.

In total, Volkswagen Group sells more than 11 million vehicles per year. This makes it THIRTY TIMES bigger than Tesla in terms of vehicle sales.

Volkswagen Group earned more than $13 billion in 2018, and will likely exceed that figure when it reports its 4th quarter numbers for 2019. This ranks Volkswagen among the 50 most profitable companies in the WORLD.

And Volkswagen’s equity is $131 billion according to its most recent financial statements.

So– Tesla loses money and has equity valued at $6.6 billion. Volkswagen sells 40x as many cars, is one of the most profitable companies in the world, and has $131 billion in equity. (Volkswagen also pays a small dividend to shareholders.)

Which of these companies is worth more?

You guessed it. Tesla.

Volkwagen’s stock price values the entire company at just $95 billion.

So investors are willing to pay $20 for every $1 in equity for unprofitable Tesla. But they’re only willing to pay 72 cents for every $1 in equity for extremely profitable and much larger Volkswagen.

Why?

>>17261345
This is where people usually talk about Tesla’s ‘technology’, its leadership with electric vehicles, autonomous driving, etc.

That might have been true several years ago. But every automobile manufacturer in the world has had the opportunity to catch up. And Tesla is no longer the clear leader.

Volkswagen’s Audi brand recently launched its A8 with the most advanced autonomous driving technology in existence. The A8, in fact, is the only production vehicle in the world with ‘level 3’ autonomous driving technology. ‘Level 3’ is so bleeding edge it isn’t even legal yet in many countries.

And just yesterday, one of Nissan’s autonomous vehicles broke a record in the UK for driving 230 miles (on an extremely complicated route) without any driver involvement.

Plus there are plenty of other companies developing driverless technology, including some giants like Google. So, again, Tesla is no longer the clear leader in this field.

Moreover, pretty much every auto manufacturer now offers electric vehicles, from luxury brands like Porsche’s Taycan and Jaguar’s I-PACE, to affordable, mass market vehicles like the Volkswagen e-Golf.

Many of these models are very highly rated and extremely competitive with Tesla’s products.

>>17261324
>>17261345
>>17261368
In addition to not having any clear technological advantage, Tesla also has no special financial or manufacturing advantage.

Automobile manufacturing is a fairly low margin business, and Tesla is no exception. The company’s gross profit margin (according to its own financial statements) is 20.1%.

This means that it costs Tesla about 80% of the sales price to manufacture the vehicle. So 80 cents out of every dollar in vehicle sales goes to manufacturing expenses. The other 20 cents has to pay for all the other expenses of the business– legal, accounting, rent, etc.

20.1% is pretty much in line with the rest of the industry; Volkswagen Group posted a gross profit margin of 19.65%, and Daimler (Mercedes) was 19.8%.

So from this perspective, Tesla is just like every other automobile manufacturer. It just happens to be unprofitable and a lot smaller… yet it’s somehow worth more than most of its competitors combined.

That makes total sense.

Article here:
https://www.sovereignman.com/trends/heres-something-that-makes-absolutely-no-sense-27145/

>>17254602
>>17261393
In conclusion:

Only a complete retard would buy TSLA for $800

>>17260216
>just pumped up by easy monetary policy inflating the stock market. Any company with a good meme brand is getting pumped up right now
what will happen if we keep on doing this?

>>17261197
>Sure just be sure to actually sell and not hold this shit to zero
why should Tesla go to zero?

>>17261403
agree but the market is retarded.

>>17254602
>Automated Driving (Trucks)

>>17261471

Because it will never be profitable. Not without government subsidies and endless capital from investors with money that they can't find anything else to do with. Tesla has never made money, only turned theoretical operational profits, which is an accounting gimmick. And a big part of that is selling regulatory credits. Its a zombie company propped up by government regulation and easy money. The moment something happens, like the monetary supply tightens, government stops emission requirements, inflation starts (costs pick up), Tesla and a lot of other blown up zombie companies collapse.

Until then if meme stocks like Apple, Microsoft, and Amazon can go beyond 1 trillion market cap, Tesla could go to $10k. But its end game is $0. Same with SPCE and other companies that do nothing of value.

I cant afford 1 tesla stock fuck..

>>17254602
lmao. took profits all the way up OP and still have a couple targets left.
Buying now is fucking retard tier.
will throw the profits back in around that gap around 594ish but fuck off buying up here

>>17261782
have buys lined up around 420. you know how musk like the memes