/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>17066055
For the progressives who so actively defend trannies and aids transmission, they surely do have a lot of financial discrimination. It is the lefts 2020 version of niggers. The dems hate rich people so much.

I just want to see a flat consumption tax that is equal for everyone and dramatically shrink the size of the federal government. Cut the bull shit with the tax brackets and shit. Rich pay their fair share which is 10000x the USD value as us poor fags.

>>17066055
go back to commie land commie, its not the 1% thats the issue, its the .0000001%

Because they are low iq and brainwashed. Muh trickle down!

>>17066055
A practical problem is that once you become that rich, you or your wider professional/tribal network begins to exert enough power where you can make demands of the government. The government is then competing for your business and is in the weaker position.

The world is going through a major megapolitical cycle, there's not much that can be done besides positioning yourself well in the new regime (which is not going to be nationalist nor globalist exactly). I think Citadels are going to actually be a thing. At some point the rich are going to have to begin using their private wealth for more ostensibly communitarian purposes and at that point the constitutional structure of national governments is merely formal.

taxing the rich? cool it with the anti-semitism

>>17066095
Not just Citadels, bug-outs, intentional communities, seasteads, gated communities, cults, etc. are going to become increasingly common as the meta-narrative and its physical manifestation - the world cosmopoli -disintegrates

>>17066055
Reported for anti-Semitism.

they own 40% of the country's income but pay 85% of taxes.

>>17066055
> *killing* the top 1%
fixed

>>17066055
bring the guillotines, the time is now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikgh4JbAWUU&feature=emb_title

>>17066139
Good goy, yes it would absolutely kill us.. err them!

>>17066131
Hmm where can i see this? That sounds wild

>>17066080
This but tax land values instead of consumption. Natural resources should be commonly owned and taxed at whatever the free market values them at. Whatever people make for themselves should be 100% their own property.

>>17066131
The 1% wouldn't be that dumb, can't believe they don't know what tax is used for.

>>17066211
It's hard to find, destroys a lot of narratives. Who do you think is providing all the tax revenue, poor people?

>>17066250
Well no. In retrospect the rich would most definitely end up paying more taxes than the poor simply because they make more

>>17066055
Dollar would collapse, if you shared the wealth of the richest 1%.

>>17066055
Why should someone who walks across the Rio Grande and shits out a kid deserve a penny of the businesses Bezos, Gates, or Musk have invested decades of their lives in building?

What commonality are you relying on? Arbitrary lines on a map? Citizenship that's handed out like candy?

>>17066219
But we don't/can't own anything...
You don't own your car, house, land, nothing anymore. the ability to pay was taken away. now the best you can hope for is purchase.
Legally ownership is title & possession, you don't have the title. You give that to the state.

>>17066219
I could see energy being commonly owned similar to Norway. It falls under national security which is the only purpose of the federal government. But if its on my land I certainly want my kick backs. Americans should never be taxed for income.
But I do think consumption tax makes more sense than what you said. I will pay state taxes for the land I own. Why pay federal tax on top of a state tax?

>>17066270
Because of basic human decency and moral/ethical ideas. Why is it fair for one man to be struggling while the other can’t even physically spend all his money before he dies

>>17066274
I would not agree with such a system. Private property is essential to free markets to do their thing.

A land value tax system would not look much different than the current system except it would penalize those who use land unproductively, which frees up land for housing, factories, and retail. The big difference between a tax on land and one on consumption is that a consumption tax falls on the end consumer.... whereas a tax on land values cannot be passed on. Because the supply of land is perfectly inelastic. land valuation taxation does not harm production.

>>17066080

The top 1% wouldn't want to pay a flat tax since they currently pay much less than the average person making ~100k/year. The average tax payer makes 1-200k/year and pays 30-50% total tax, while most billionaires will pay 0-10% after its all said and done.

Then you have to take into account the way society is rigged to promote cyclical poverty and catch the lower and middle class into massive debt traps, effectively enslaving them to a lifetime of working to maintain the top 1%'s lifestyle. Lunch debt, student debt, car debt, mortgage, credit cards, are all effectively a tax for people who get trapped in it.

Then you have inflation and monetary police which is a tax on anyone who is born without massive family assets. This is an additional tax on anyone who has to work for money, instead of just sit on assets they inherited.

The system overall is completely rigged to keep lower and middle class poor, and maintain the top 1%'s lifestyle. A "fair" tax system would require reversing all of this including income tax and going more towards a wealth tax.

>>17066315
Because evolution doesn't stop when you cash a check.

A generation later, Juan has 10 deadbeat kids, each demanding more resources, and none able to generate them. Bezos/Gates/Musk Jr. has to pay more taxes, can't acquire starting capital as easily, nor grow his business as fast.

A generation later, Juan's grandchildren are 100 strong and Bezos/Gates/Musk III, well, their greatest success is whatever Venezuela's largest companies are right now.

China decides the resources of North America belong to the heavenly empire, sweeps Juan and the Bezos/Gates/Musk clan off the continent, and that's the end of that.

Short term compassion often generates long term suffering.

Think about what you're doing before doing it.

>>17066055
Sounds a little anti semetic to me, goy.

>>17066274
I have the title in hand for my car..But to transfer I do need the state.
>>17066349
>>The top 1% wouldn't want to pay a flat tax
no shit you retard. I don't care what they want to pay
>>society is rigged to promote cyclical poverty
Eliminated by dramtically reducing the size of the government and allowing people to fail.
>>without massive family assets
It takes 1 generation to build wealth if you have good American values like a family. Stop stealing my parents shit you commie.
>>rigged to keep lower and middle class poor
social programs do this. "I'll have niggers voting democrat for the next 200 years."~Johnson

This is a prime example why you dont let feelings and progressives dictate the way America functions.

>>17066055
the people with the most wealth don't have trillions of dollars just sitting idle in their bank accounts, they hold assets like land, property, cars, business. taxing them won't do shit and is just commie propaganda.

>>17066289
Ok, anon. It's good you can see that common ownership like of a resource like oil seems to make sense.... but why not extend that to fishing grounds as well? We already have commerical fishing licenses... but those inevitably lead to rent seeking (the license itself is worth so much that the fisherman just sell it rather than fish). If that makes sense, then why not gold? If gold makes sense, then why not urban land? The entirety of urban value is not created by anything that the owner did, but comes from society itself.

Nearly all poverty comes from unequal access to land. The richest person in Austrialia got rich by monopolizing a fucking ton of mineral rights a generation ago, when you and i had no option to bid.

If I were in charge, there would be a user fee on land and no other taxes. If you want to use land, you pay the market value for it. If you don't want to pay any taxes, go live in an apartment.

Whether you realize it or not, the market value of land is priced into every single good you buy. I think this value is better suited to taxation than anything else, simply because nobody created it.

>>17066322
>would not agree with such a system.
No buddy, What I said is the CURRENT system.
>You buy a car, the Certificate (Doc of ownership) from the manufacture is sent off so you can register the car & get a licence plate.
>'Buy' a house, first thing you do is register the deeds. then your responsible for the taxes.
>'Buy' Stock - you don't own it Cade & co do via the depository trust Co.
Ownership died the moment they took away the exchangeability of promissory notes back into gold. Now promissory notes (FRNs) are just debt. How can you pay a debt with debt?
Need I go on further. SO many don't understand the current scam, it look foreign to them.
>>17066397
This 'title' for your vehicle shows who is responsible for taxing the vehicle. Show me you Certificate of newness or Certificate of Original manufacturer...you can't.
Sadly, Few understand the importance of (((CERTIFICATES)))

>>17066403
>nothing will ever work so we better just get ass fucked

>>17066439
That maybe the case anon, but it's tangential to this discussion.

I thinking anything man made should be owned entirely by the person who made it. I'm in line with liberatarians on almost everything, including sound money.

Where I differ is that I believe that land should be commonly owned and feel like I can convinced libertarians that this is correct.

As a counterpoint to what you're saying, I do see the benefit of having a ledger of ownership. I'd prefer a blockchain to a state, but in the current year, it's not 100% bad for the state to maintain that record of ownership, even if I don't like taxes on titles or niggers working at the dmv.

>>17066397

America was founded with very progressive ideas, that there wasn't a class hierarchy and their was economic mobility for everyone. But not it has been reverted back to a neo-feudal system where the system is rigged to limit economic mobility, designed to keep poor people poor and working their whole life to maintain the generational wealth of billionaire heirs. This might be good in the short term for people like us in top 10 to top 1%, but it isn't sustainable. The top 1% will become too bloated while you can only extort and work the masses in the middle class so much before the system collapses.

>>17066439
I understand what you mean. Tax on cars is one of the most ridiculous things in the world. Buying a used car as the 3rd owner privately and having to pay taxes on it is bull shit. Good thing you can lie. lol

>>17066055
Raising income taxes won't do shit. They don't derive their wealth from their income. Their wealth primarily accrues from asset price inflation. And it is the Jew-controlled central banks which with their money-printing policies are responsible for inflating the price of assets and destroying the relative purchasing power of wage-earners and savers. The only way to level the playing field is to End The Fed. Leftists do not appear to have the brain capacity to understand this, which is unfortunate, given how noisy and self-righteous they are.

>>17066491
but why do you think this is the case anon? is it because their incomes are too high? Or is that the taxes and regulations are more burdersome on low earners?

because the 1% includes people who make 500k a year. you're thinking of the 0.00001%

I agree, we should bring down the middle class taxes to what the wealthy are paying. Only then can we have a truly prosperous society.

>>17066444
trips says so it must be so.

>>17066491
Your history is wrong. There was very little economic mobility in America in its early days. People had important roles in their communities. Generations would have the same roles making cast iron furnaces for a century. This was based on a class hierarchy. People had little chance because education was so valuable and not for everyone. You didnt start shoveling the coal into the furnace and move up to iron worker in a lifetime. We have the most economic freedom we ever had today. Everything is available to make your self successful online. The blame is on the uniparty but mostly on the dems for your "economic suppression" because of the policies that take hard earned money to give to others while simultaneously devaluing a high school education for the mirage of a college degree being important.

The billionaires aren't your problem. Its you anon.

>>17066485
you don't understand.I don't think you understand tax is part of the issue. Have a look @ 'the grace commission'
>The report said that one-third of all income taxes are consumed by waste and inefficiency in the federal government, and another one-third escapes collection owing to the underground economy. "With two thirds of everyone's personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt and by federal government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services that taxpayers expect from their government.

>>17066583
I understand all that anon and mostly agree with you... I'm just trying to understand the relevance of whether or not actually 'owning' your car has in a discussion about tax policy?

Like I said, I'm mostly in line with you. I know about the grace commission and laffert curve. I don't like government spending, taxes on production, and subsidies. What I do like are taxes on the market value of land.

>>17066055
>The top 1% should not own 40% of the U.S income.
Why?

>>17066510
>Their wealth primarily accrues from asset price inflation.
How about taxing asset price inflation then?
Oh, wait. Governments already do this via taxing financial income from stocks.

>>17066055

>>17066055
Just posting some larger charts

>>17066635
Wow. Interesting to see how after Obama running the country the 10% was back to the negatives. Who would've thought Keynesian policies with record welfare was a bad thing?

>>17066055
Attacking the "1%" is addressing a symptom, not a cause. If you want to fight the wealth gap, stop giving the government so much money.

>>17066659
To get back to your earlier question anon, I think a tax on the market value of land should be the ONLY tax. I'd have a it collected at the county level, and that kicked up the the federal government, where they'd use it to finance essential services, and distribute the remainder to to states, who'd use it to fund essential services, and distribute the remainder to counties, etc.

I think under this system those who prefer a more socialism could spend revenue on government services, whereas others could just receive a cash payment to purchase services on the free market.

It may not be immediately obvious, but all increases in wages are negated by a corresponding increase in land values. Federal reserve policies are a big reason for inequality, but that which is unseen is the role of land in the economy. Everything gets priced into land, which is why it is the only thing that makes sense to tax.

Fuck commies

If you want to fix the problem, then abolish income tax.

They're no such thing as "taxing the 1%". No politician had given a plan that doesn't buttfuck the middle class.

>>17066742

>>17066762
Wow great argument anon.
Maybe (((Milton Freidman))) can explain it more better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS7Jb58hcsc

>>17066444
checked and confirmed

>>17066055
>tax top 1%
>they leave
>they take 50k jobs with them

>>17066623
only applies if they sell. it's the paper wealth which makes commies seethe, because they've got no way of getting at it

>>17066055
Thou shalt not covet, anon.

To covet someone else's property, to be so consumed with greed and envy at what he has that you want it stolen or destroyed, is one of the most poisonous traits a person can have.

>>17066808
No one prefers government services. They want them cause they are "free". Your trickle up then down economics isnt going to work. I'd rather vote for the guy giving ponies.

>>17066989
But you're missing the point.... when you tax the MARKET VALUE of land, voters do not determine the amount of revenue collected nor can they influence it.

The choice then becomes 'do you want government services with your money, or do you want a direct payment'. I think when confronted with a choice between services or a cash payment, most would choose the money. I'm open to being wrong, but as long as it's possible to move to a state where people generally prefer cash payments it'd be ok.

This is why you can have liberatarianism at the national level, but still have socialism at the state level, but not vice versa.

However, this is beside the point that taxes on land are the most economically efficient form of taxation (can't hide land like you can sales or income).

>>17066833

They try to leave they pay a hefty price to renounce citizenship or they continue paying US taxes

>>17067039
I guess I truly am to low iq to understand what you are talking about.

Where do people who rent come into play?
How does inflating an already inflated bubble help the middle class?

>>17067165
It's like Bastiat anon, you have to see the unseen.

The point is that we need taxes if we're going to have a society. We know income taxes hurt people.

What we're after is the 'economic rent' or producer's surplus on land. Whether you realize it or not, this is priced into every good or service you buy. People who rent already pay for the market value of land-- and the landlord pays income taxes on it. The renter doesn't care if this value goes to the state or to the landlord, because he has to pay it either way.

This would not create a bubble-- because the market value of land is already priced into to everything. What it would do would eliminate the incentive to speculate on land..... which would free up a lot of land for housing, business, and everything else, while simultaneously eliminating taxes on income, cap gains, and all the other bullshit we pay for to keep retards employed in nonessential government jobs.

>>17066055
>company keeps growing
>loses money on paper but throws off cash
>don't pay income taxes
>never sell appreciating company
>never pay capital gains
>stepped up in basis when you die and your kids inherit the company

The rich don't pay taxes at all if they're smart.

>>17067425
For example, my uncles real estate investment company had cash flows of 400K last year, but profit was negative because of all the writeoffs. He can even borrow money against it his properties to spend and pay no taxes.

Whenever he sells he 1031 exchanges to delay paying taxes on appreciation.

Effectively hes making 400K + appreciation and paying $0 in Federal taxes.

>>17067462
THis is why income taxes are so fucking retarded if you're actually trying to collect revenue. We need an 8000+ page tax code to define what income really is and even that leaves a lot to be desired.

There is no good reason to tax income other than to turn people into serfs.

>>17067128

>Paying fee to renounce citizenship after fleeing a country

Too kek

>>17066139
chances are you're in the top 1% worldwide dipshit. and if not I'm lmaoing at your life

>>17066315
is it decent, moral, and ethical to force a man to give his earned resources to another man who hasn't earned them? this is what charity is for, not taxes