/biz/ - Business & Finance

STIFF!

>>16913079

Kill urself

>>16913105
When the court orders Craig to forcibly move the coins, and Calvin's miners oblige, you know what happens then....right corecuck?!?

>>16913079
i can't even follow the logical somersaults sv cucks try to preserve their pretense at sanity with.

>>16913115
... on sv? nobody gives a fuck. on btc? never gonna happen.

>>16913123
pretty straightforwards. In other words BSV is going to super moon and core coin is fucked.

Hmmm, I could keep my coins on this criminal blockchain that is going to be seized and taken down any moment. Or I can move my funds onto this chain that complies with the law and is mooning.

Tough choice.

>>16913174
that's not logic that's a gamblers fallacy: "if i believe strong enough my astronomically bad odds will pan out"

>>16913204
How is the BTC has to go back up logic working out for ya?

>>16913204
only if you hold core coin. BSV I believe has already won. The market will stagger on a little longer. Then it won't.

>>16913236
the logic behind btc is simple. it's durably unique trustless permissionless secure and programmatically scarce. the hardest money you can own the most private way of all things. meaning your ownership does not depend on anyone else does not depend on a legal system does not depend on the goodwill of others. you fags can't understand this simple thing. shitcoins don't have what bitcoin has. it's the easiest thing in the universe to have more tx/s. any shitcoin can do it. but none of them can do what btc can do. you can make a billion fork and none of them will be bitcoin.

>>16913294
>I believe
i gathered that much

>soon
>trust in the plan
>happening imminent

>>16913299
You are assuming it's immune to the law, everything you just said assumes it *cant* be shut down. So, what would it be worth once that fantasy falls apart?

>>16913079
Crazy how bsv manages to escape the iron hands of the law at every turn, seeing as how it's such an obvious scam. Shit they're even looking into bitmain now, but bsv isn't even on their radar. Really gets the joggin' a noggin', eh lads?

>>16913332
>You are assuming it's immune to the law
it is immune to any local law or legislation. international law we will see.

>>16913079
HOLY SHIT, IMAGINE BUYING BSV
he is literally telling you that he is gonna seize all he can

>>16913333
Obvoiusly he's just such a good scammer that he continues to get away with it! *Only* explanation that fits my world view.

>>16913332
>So, what would it be worth once that fantasy falls apart?
it's not a fantasy it's a basic requirement for bitcoin to be worth anything. i will be absolutely uninterested in crypto if it becomes trustful and permissioned. it will lose it's meaning it's core value.

>>16913352
Even if you want to go along with this fantasy, and say it somehow survives despite everyones effort to shut it down. Do you think such a system would ever be mainstream? One that is actively being targeted by every government? Why would you want to be in a system that lives in the shadows that maybe 1% of the population participates in, rather than the one the other 99% are in... which one do you think is going to end up being more valuable? It's not rocket science.

>>16913391
>everyones effort to shut it down
there is no such effort. and it's not a requirement. the requirement is no singly entity can shut it down. especially not my retarded government. that can seize all my assets overnight except my bitcoin. there they are shit out of luck.

>>16913414
Doesn't think countries are working together.

Do you think they are plotting a take down out in the open?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Reserve#2013_seizure

"In May 2013, Liberty Reserve was shut down by United States federal prosecutors under the Patriot Act after an investigation by authorities across 17 countries."

Have fun getting rekt

>>16913414
Only 2-3 countries the majority of hashpower are in, threaten sancations against them unless they take action.

Those miners get shut down, new hash power is thrown online to hijack the chain taking control and permenately ruining it's trust. Ezpz

>>16913447
i don't really get it btw. there is no way "everyone" turns on btc but they will accept sv instead of stomping all the forks out with extreme prejudice. this scenario is the least likely of all scenarios. you seriously betting on this retarded shit?

>>16913414
>my gov cant crack bitcoin
but they can force miners to forward your bitcoin to them. this is whats coming boys! this is what satoshi means by his post!
once a us federal judge orders him to forward 1/2 bsv to ira...that same standing order will apply to btc!
all those miners in us, eu, and china will be forced to comply with a us federal court order.
BYE BYE COREKEKS!
Welcome to Law!

>>16913447
again a local law and local seizure. that is exactly what bitcoin is the perfect escape vehicle against.
if any country does that retarded shit you are fine. you move to a decent country and live happily ever after. and on the airport as you board your plane they can strip you of everything except your btc. incredible shit.

>>16913391
>Why would you want to be in a system that lives in the shadows that maybe 1% of the population participates in, rather than the one the other 99% are in... which one do you think is going to end up being more valuable?
Who has most of the money, the 1% or the 99%?
>law
which law? there are 200+ jurisdictions on earth
there are famous serial killers still roaming around, there are people who did half a billion fraudulent bankruptcy and they are still free in Dubai and they have businesses, bank accounts, lambos, they own skyscrapers
and you think that some sort of "international law will be able to go after "32 bytes"? ARE YOU FUCKING DREAMING OR WHAT?
How about you have US telling to seizing some BSV, and Iran saying that BSV are legit? Who is right?
BTC solve this. Private key has the funds, which is the only universal truth.

>>16913472
Who is "everyone"

Everyone isn't using crypto right now, who cares what the currently BTC users think? BSV will gain adoption by everyone else, the real mainstream users that BTC has isolated themselves from. Once the writing is on the wall that BTC is being left in the dust, the smarter of the bunch will move over as well, but who really cares about them... they aren't needed at all, they are nobodies.

>>16913479
>but they can force miners to forward your bitcoin to them
sure as hell can't.
>this is whats coming boys!
rofl
>this is what satoshi means by his post!
this was exactly what satoshi made bitcoin against. security of your money must not depend on others goodwill, that was the idea behind bitcoin. faketoshi is a brainlet.

also good luck trying to force any legislation on foreign citizens... especially chinks. they won't give a flying fuck about us court orders.

>>16913490
>>16913493
Do you people really not realize there are international laws, especially in the case of banking? Jesus christ.

>>16913479
>China
>Complying with a US court order
You’re a funny man

>>16913498
>Who is "everyone"
it was your objection m8 some giant international conspiracy...

>>16913513
>sure as hell can't.
"hi mr miner located at 1234 SOME STREET, if you dont comply with Federal Court Order #XYZ we are going to send in guys with guns who will bust your teeth out....."
Welcome To Law!

>>16913524
>there are international laws
not really... the international law is more about how countries conduct against each other and respect each others laws. the international banking act relates to international banks that are hosted in multiple countries. doesn't have anything to do with miners or me.

>>16913529
Not a conspiracy, it's called adoption.

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/pdf_2016_03/20160316_2016-nfr-nfp.PDF

for you idiots who dont understand how government works, bunch of little anarchist edge lords

>>16913541
you think 1 miner matters? fuck you guys btc is not like bsv it's not mined by a single entity in a single jurisdiction. also nobody even knows my addresses. especially kept that shit from my imbecilic government.

>>16913524
Dubai has no extradition with hundreds of nations
It's literally full of very known international criminals pending lifetime jail in other countries
People who did half a billion fraudulent bankruptcy and they run away with all the money they moved through Panama and Man's Island
They own skyscrapers, thousand of business, restaurants, they are billionaire yet their banking accounts seems just legit
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

>>16913550
again you don't get it no matter what you bring up it has limits and a jurisdiction. a local law or regulation can't affect btc. enough if a single miner from kazakhstan includes my tx. you are shit out of luck. you can not stop bitcoin this way.

>>16913582
the beauty is given segwit, they don't even need 51%...more like 25-30% of miners.
very easy to get that amount from us + eu + china

>>16913550
>nato
>NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST BE RUSSIAN

>>16913550
>NOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST USE HECKING UNTRACEABLE RADIO
>YOU NEED BIG BLOCKS SO YOU HAVE TO RELY ON THE REGULATED INTERNET

>>16913598
so easy to say, yet do hard to pull, keep dreaming

>>16913598
what the hell are you smoking? segwit ruleset does not allow for stealing segwit funds any more than it allows for minting a billion coins or stealing a legacy output.

>>16913578
This just goes to my earlier post, sure it might survive and be a criminal network. But how valuable do you think the criminal network (very small) is going to be vs the internationally accepted one that the other 6 billion people are using? If you want to stay on BTC out of principle and go poor that's entirely an option, but if you are looking to have your coins on the chain that will explode and see mainstream adoption, BTC isn't it.

>>16913693
nah it's bullshit. most of svtards don't even understand what the witness is. they say shit like it's not a signature and whatnot. the witness is sigscript basically.

I literally can't wait till you faggots get justed again, you smug fucks following this conartist like desperate incels following a pick-up artist. Both groups have basically zero chances of success, you've lost the moment you believed in the scam.

>>16913294
The name is “satoshi Vision” you stupid fucking nigger nothing says scam then that

>>16913333
C-CHECKED. Unarguable quads.

>>16913525
Exactly. Only extremely important issues (ie sex trafficking, terrorism) will have multi-country court orders. This is was bch ancap fags and corcucks don't understand.

You'll be ok buying weed. They won't take your bitcoin. If you have a 10 billion dollar pedophile ring. Your time is short.

>>16913388
Bitcoin - a public immutable ledger - is not for crime or illicit activity. It is for law abiding citizens who want to conduct legal business and commerce.

If you don't like it, STIFF

>>16914267
yeah my sorry ass runaway money will not warrant an international cooperation. but at the first sign this is remotely possible sans terrorism or drug cartels i will know bitcoin is a bust and crypto indeed needs privacy.

>>16913079
what the fuck is this faggot smoking? all he has to do is sign with private keys and transfer a small sum - a couple satoshis at max- to an agreed upon address. this is literally good enough proof for big 4 auditors and would stand in court. lmao at this cocksucker rambling about fucking botnets(???) as a weak distraction from the fact he is not able to prove something so fucking simple.

>>16914330
>It is for law abiding citizens
which law? venezuelan law? thanks no. if you are illegal everywhere you will not be able to cash out easily anyhow. if your government is turning on you illegally then you are fine (us gold confiscation is a good example this can happen in any country) go leave that shithole and start anew.

>>16913332
>So, what would it be worth once that fantasy falls apart?
Zero. The tokens then have the same properties as Disney bucks only Disney doesn't redeem them.

>>16913566

lol, BTC is way more vulnerable than you think.

>>16914352
Local law of course. If you do crime on Bitcoin you will be traced. It was literally designed for perfect tracability.

Actually no nvm, keep doing crime with Bitcoin nobody will ever find out kek

>>16913774
But we beat you on narrative control

>faketoshi

>>16914267
>If you have a 10 billion dollar pedophile ring.
...you already have presidents' personal numbers.

>>16914267
>You'll be ok buying weed. They won't take your bitcoin.
>don't worry goys (((they))) said, you can change every dollar for a fixed quantity of gold (((they))) said
>give us your gold, it's illegal goys, now it's (((our))) gold
THIS, FUCKING OVER AND OVER
NEVER TRUST GOVERNMENTS AND BANKS
NEVER, IF YOU FUCK UP WITH BTC WE MOVE TO MONERO
>you cannot use PGP goys, it's illegal
and then math wins
>>16914339
you don't even need to transfer, you can just sign a message
>>16914485
we beat you with math

>>16914473
>Local law of course.
local law is local bitcoin is global. also if my government illegally seizes my assets what will the us or an eu country do? fucking nothing,

>>16914330
who's the geezer on the right?

>>16914330
>reverse image search
>only chinese results
every time, only on BSV

>>16914665
I'm not talking about seizing your bitcorn. I am talking about being held accountable for crimes committed using Bitcoin as a financial instrument.

Bitcoin was made to catch criminals.

>>16914699
George Gilder

https://www.reddit.com/r/CraigIsSatoshi/comments/cgrk1x/george_gilder_respected_economist_author/

>>16914749
oh it was him again, alright

>>16914732
>Bitcoin was made to catch criminals.
No, Bitcoin was made to have trustless, unpermissioned, unseizable, backdoor-free, peer-to-peer money
you don't like it? MATH DOESN'T CARE

>>16914330
>public immutable
If the contents of the ledger are subject to change by law it's not immutable and if it those changes are censored it's not public.

>>16914795
>unseizable

Can you point me to that part in the white paper? I probably missed it.

Also it's literally a public ledger and all transaction history is recorded forever. If you do crime on it you are a fucking retard. It is a law enforcement wet dream.

>>16914814
You can't change or erase records on the blockchain. You can make new records as subject to law, but the old will still be there. Nothing is removed, all transaction history is retained.

It's immutable.

>>16914814
this, simple as that
>>16914821
>Can you point me to that part in the white paper? I probably missed it.
Can you point me to that part in the white paper or in the Bitcoin source code where it's ever mentioned or implemented a part of code responsible for BTC seizure?
>Also it's literally a public ledger and all transaction history is recorded forever.
An immutable public ledger >>16914814

>>16914890

Please use your eyes -> >>16914842

>>16914842
Because Craig wants to store data on chain it will and has been used to store illegal material. You can't deal with that without changing the chain. He's not arguing for immutability or censorship resistance anymore because he can't. We've been through all this, it's why BTC is how it is. If you want to store data it can only be indexed by the chain, you have to be personally responsible for it. Replacing the monetary system is something Bitcoin can do so the fat was trimmed to focus on that. Other projects can focus on other things but BSV isn't advancing anything, it's just a cult.

>>16914842
No, the chain of hashes is immutable. The data could be pruned.

Core cucks have 0 block chain knowledge, hilarious

A miner doesn't need to store any data they don't need to in order to mine new blocks, this includes illegal content. Without that content they can still mine blocks just fine...

The only incentive to store and deliver content is an economic one, to keep the coin valuable. If they don't deliver on one of it's use cases to store data it hurts the value and their bottom line. How ever, storing illegal content is not a use case, and not doing so has no negative consequence to miners

What would happen if the US courts told the devs to reverse a Bitcoin transaction? A US fork with the transaction reversed would form and die a slow painful death.
What would happen if the US courts told the devs to reverse a BSV transaction? Craig and pals would reverse it.

>>16915039
This is how all banking works, this is why your money is safe and fdic insured, etc. Criminals don't get to keep what they steal, it is returned to it's legal owner you anarchist edgelord.

>>16915028
So you aren't storing any data on an immutable public ledger. You're storing data that's indexed by a ledger and hoping some anonymous stranger is kind enough not to delete it. Also with BSV the ledger itself can be changed at will since the "real" chain is only decided by Craig. It doesn't matter how many fork from whatever he says is BSV.
>>16915061
Don't take over these words and pretend they mean something else then. Don't pretend you're talking about an immutable ledger. You're offering something completely different from BTC and nobody wants it.

>>16915097
Oh, you speak for everyone? Let me guess everyone wanted segwit? LMAO

>>16915097
Good thing we got lighting network! Now that is some real Bitcoin guys! Not the personification of the white paper, what mental gymnastics

>>16915116
>>16915139
Embarrasing

>>16915116
You have to redefine words used to describe BTC to market your shitcoin. You have to say the words "immutable chain" as a marketing gimmick but in practice you don't want any of the features you're promising. You can't be honest because people don't want what you're really selling.

>>16915061
That’s not how it works
You cannot do a bank transfer recall from an empty account which is probably in an other country and you will not get back any money from the bank insurance since it’s your fault for not protecting your online account properly
Criminals just need to take over a bank account from one side and a credit card on the other side, they cashout, and then both frauded parts will go trough endless judicial trials because they will probably sue each other, they are going to spend infinite legal fees and they will not get anything back
Penal courts are full of these cases, and I know it personally since it happened to me as well
I had to spend 5k for legal fees, and the case is still going on after 3 years, accounts still frozen and of course it will end up with a nothingburger from both sides since criminals already get away with it and we are both frauded
This was the reason why I went all in in BTC since 3 years
Never trust banks (and cheap Chinese phones with ore installed malwares)

>>16914732
>I am talking about being held accountable for crimes committed using Bitcoin
fuck are you talking about...
>Bitcoin was made to catch criminals.
bullshit

>>16914938
>UTXO could be pruned

>>16915364
the opreturn data can be pruned from the get go it's worthless the old blocks and all old transactions can be safely pruned. but not the utxo set.

>>16913513
>miners will refuse
yeah they will care a lot, especially when the asset they mine costs $millions in equipment/operating costs and the rest of the world dumps all their bags on them upon the news

>>16914814
>If the contents of the ledger are subject to change by law
then the experiment failed, satoshi failed and you retards will celebrate the death of bitcoin and the death of hope.
eventually all trust is betrayed. no exceptions. no country no legal system is flawless. you fucking bootlickers.

>>16915751
I remember being 18

>welcome to law!
>gets ordered to pay half a billion he doesn't have
>fake fucking toshi

>>16915867
good for you i'm 40 tho.
i remember what bitcoin was like in 2010 i remember what it was made for i remember what satoshi was like. he was nothing like this aussie faggot that's for sure.

>>16916653
>welcome to law!
>gets ordered to pay half a billion he doesn't have
>fork his own shitcoin to seize as much as he can because muh law decides he need to reimburse Ira somehow
and bsv bagholders will say this is normal, while he dump his seized stack on them,

>>16916835
I remember mining on ATIs around then, whenever it was 12ish usd, not sure of the year. I'm just surprised someone who is 40 can still have such a childish mindset, but I guess that is why we are where we are...

>>16915707
Writing a script to store arbitrary data in utxo takes 10 minutes with python btw
It’s still cheap and feasible on bsv, cause spam is literally encouraged on this shitcoin

>>16917148
yeah sure. i get what you mean now. but it's a billion times easier to just include the data in the tx on sv, you can even encrypt it with your pedo network secret passphrase.

>>16917131
childish? hmm. from my life experience i couldn't possibly even imagine how could someone trust their government and legal system. this is the primary reason bitcoin adoption is lacking. it's accessible in countries that never needed it.

>>16917417
fuck off, the only pedo is your main supporter, ayre
you don’t really have to worry about me cause I will never touch such a shitcoin, it will be converted to a semi centralized sql database with fully controlled hard forks, so it is pretty useless for anyone
but I’m pretty sure it will be the best choise for criminals since it has good incentives for spammers

>>16917491
oh i'm not an sv cuck bad wording i guess