/biz/ - Business & Finance

Dunno either I'm in the same boat. In Australia prices are already starting to drop and the cash rate is dropped to .75%, and they're planning on lowering further. My lease ends in june so I need to find a house in april. If there is still problems in the national economy like stagflation, 0% interest rates, no wages growth etc I will probably rent another year. But if I do buy I will be comparing the average price of a house now vs 2011 against the fundamentals changes. For instance, there are some areas where housing has gone up a modest 20% in this 9 year period, while others have doubled in value. One suburb has gone up 15% in one year with no change in fundamentals (no new schools, shops etc), that's how you sniff out bubbles I'm guessing... You'd be a fool to miss out on an investment because of macro phenomenon if they do not apply to prospective purchases.

>>16727812
I live in a red hot market... so I’m biding my time as a rent cuck, waiting for prices to stagnate and dip.

I think that the debt conditions that led to 2008 are repeating. CDO’s, which were the garbage real estate investment options that tanked the market then, are once again resurgent now. Americans have more debt than ever propping them up. If you’re young like me (22), I’d recommend waiting it out.

>>16727812
>Growth
Serious boomer cope. They have to try harder and harder to fudge the numbers for everything with every passing year. The slowdown is real. The music is waning.

>>16728124
>The slowdown is real. The music is waning.
Even if this is the case, what is the best course of action? You're either in the housing market, living with someone who is, or renting

Identifying a problem isn't the same thing as solving it

Golden rule: never invest in real estate if you have to get a mortgage or any kind of financing. It will become your biggest headache.

>>16727812
It's not inflated at all you doomer, a family in my neighborhood just bought this home for 150k which is very affordable.

I hate the retards claiming that the housing market will go bust again. The 08 crash is literally the only time in the past century where a market crash directly correlated with a housing crash. There wasn't even a dip in 2000 with the tech crash.

You're never getting that opportunity again short of complete collapse of the government.

>>16727812
new houses are still being built, check out the below. It shows the amount of building permits issued, these companies (developers) spend money/time to forecast market demand. in '09 it took a massive sharp dip
https://uk.investing.com/economic-calendar/building-permits-25
Everything is fine as long as people are payin these loans, which can change quickly with a non liquid asset such as RE.

>>16727812
the real estate market is so fucked up because there is no sound money, and no I'm not here shilling btc, but land (and therefore housing) is the only limited thing on this planet.
gold? can be discovered/mined or even asteroid mined + paper gold supressing prices of actual metal

stocks? basicly a ponzi especially if it doesn't pay out dividends

that's why every rich fucker desperately scoops up all the real estate he can because it's the only safe heaven. Because of the (((FED))) our generation will be forced into rentcucking or end up on the streets

the government has bacily 2 choices keep printing money until hyperinflation happens or stop printing and let the economy slow down and deflation happen, obviously they are more likely to keep printing but what if they bet on all of us expecting that and will actually let deflation to occur so we end up buying the top?

and all the warren buffets or some other real estate/stock market tycoons will probably get handed all the intel on a silver plate so they can act and position themselves on time while the average joe has to eithe keep guessing or get fucked

>>16729334
50% cash on hand to protect against deflation, 50% stonks to protect against hyperinflation, wait it out. The patient win this game.

It's shocking this is never mentioned in conversations about real estate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chain_(real_estate)

>>16729209
>euphoria

I hate how everything looks like a fucking scam.
Crypto is a shitfest
Stocks are inflated with debt and corporate buybacks
Real estate is inflated with debt, mexicans, and chinese

What am I even supposed to invest in?

>>16729546
Real estate is probably the safest option, just remember YOU are the ones to let people in
The only thing I'm scared of is housing prices going down

>>16727812
>unilaterally
*universally

>>16729053
> yea don't use leverage to profit

Purchased 2 multis in the past 3 years that are now netting me $3k/month. Plan on buying another one in a couple of years

>>16729627
How do you get good renters rather than third world goblins shitting the place up and putting up mexican flags?

>>16729546
forex

>>16727812
>know analysts are unilaterally predicting continued growth in 2020

i wonder (((((((((((((((((((((((((Who))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) has worked feverishly in the past 24 months to spread this belief across the stock/housing/commodity/currency market so you low IQ shits can let your guard down and go into a 2000/2009-esque frenzy again for them to shit all over on??

>>16729546

Don't invest then. Wait for an entry.

Just bought a house. This is unironically the next leg up .

>>16729654
kek. It's definitely the biggest risk with investment properties (barring a massive housing crash, which I doubt will come due to demand outpacing supply). Just be very selective with applicants, and always always meet them in person (even if you had a brokerage find the tenants for you). Just because someone makes $150k and has an 800 credit score doesn't mean they won't be a cunt of a tenant. Go with people that seem easy going. At the end of the day some might fall through the cracks, but with a rigorous screening process you can sift out most of the mehicans

>>16729654
Applications....they either pass or fail

Something I've been thinking about recently... how much did home values actually drop in the '08 crash? Spot checking a few homes in my area, it looks like the average tax assessment only dropped around 7%; not sure how closely the tax assessment is related to actual home value though.

If this is true, many flippers recommend buying at about 70% of home value, whereas long-term holders (i.e. rental property investors) seem to shoot for about 80% of value, so if the market truly crashed about 7% during the bad crash, a thrifty buyer could theoretically still stand to gain.

Any input?

>>16729765
Still too expensive. I gross 90k per year and thinking about a 300k+ 100 year old house is fucking nuts.
Or I can buy a 250k condo (fucking LMAO)
Or I can live in bumfuck suburbs surrounded by mexicans and mormons where comparable properties are about only 50-75k cheaper.

>>16729765
depends how long you would be looking to hold

generally speaking < 3 years, dont shoot for anything less than 80% value

longer term you can survive dips. Historically the rise in r.e values outpaces inflation, so even if the market didnt move at all you're better off parking your money in property

>>16729791
I only earn ~$75k, bought my 1st multi for $550k and the second one for $815k. 100 year old houses have much better bones than new construction. Yes it sounds like a lot of money, but assuming they're rental properties their worth is a factor of their rental income; don't let high price tags on purchases deter you if the numbers make sense

>>16727812
>Without wages rising to meet rising housing costs, no one is going to be able to afford these houses
but this is where the argument falls appart.
When the fed (central banking) can literally print free money, and interbank ratings are NEGATIVE, there is no reason why "investors" can't continue to purchase their 100th rental property
the music will not stop until something snaps

>>16729812
Mortgage rates basically dictate rent, though, so as property values increase rents go up to cover the bill. Average people won't be able to buy and they won't even be able to afford rent

There must be a ceiling. This can't just increase forever except due to inflation

>>16729810
How many units were your rentals? I keep thinking I should really get into real estate because my area is a hot one and I have more than 100k in my savings account, but I hesitate because holy shit this stuff is expensive and only seems to get worse.

>>16729687
>just sit on cash goy, get that juicy 0.5% interest when real-term inflation is 3%++

>>16729841
its not average people that have been driving this market though. the decoupling was '09

>>16729844
first one was a 2 family, second is a 3 family. I work in real estate which gives me a little bit of an edge for spotting underpriced listings and screening tenants. I hesitated for a number of years because like you I just felt like the sticker prices were crazy, but in my market (Boston area) we have a supply shortage. Housing market may level off soon but I really don't see a crash happening barring world events

Don't get too focused on the sticker price of the house; run the numbers on rents vs buy price

Tell me another way I can earn $75k/year and turn that into $36k/year passive in less than 4 years and I'll do it

>>16729844
I don’t own property like tycoon anon, but 100k in savings?? You can cover a down payment handsomely anon, I’d execute if I were you.

>>16729883
Do you manage everything about the properties yourself or do you use a property manager?
Another concern I have is potentially leaving my state (Utah) because while the job market for software developers is really good, the wages are relatively low and I can make a substantial amount more money on the west coast when I gain another year or two of experience. So I wonder about what happens if I buy something here, then leave to rake in some money, but don't want to sell the property. Do I try to deal with it all myself still while living in another state, or should I get a property manager.

blah blah blah I have more money than I know what to do with right now and am frustrated at all the options

>>16729914
kek. Good problems to have anon

I do manage them myself now, yes. But eventually I will also relocate and will then hire a property manager. Typical fee for my area is about 5-10% of gross rent, so assuming your margins aren't razor thin will still be quite profitable even if you're paying someone else to manage your properties

>>16729883
To clear that 3k, your average rent needs to be just under 2k (probably over with repairs/taxes and property tax).

I don't know the area that well, because who would willingly live in assachusetts...but I'm supposed to belive someone is paying 2k to live in a 2/br 100 year old duplex in the ghetto, a 2 hr commute into jobs?

>>16729942
> don't know that area well
> proceeds to explain to a boston real estate expert the boston housing market

my 2 family is comprised of two 3 bedroom apartments, those rents are $2,700 per unit.

3 family is comprised of three 2 bedroom apartments; two are currently rented for $2,500/month, the third is shittier so is only worth $2,000/month

>>16729933
>Typical fee for my area is about 5-10% of gross rent
OH FUCK THAT'S IT??
I was expecting something much more substantial. Holy shit. I should probably buy something.
I could buy something this year, potentially leave in a year or two, have a property manager take care of it while I go program in some city full of gay communists and throw fistfuls of cash at my property principle.

DAaaaaaamn I think I just had a light bulb go off. I need to network with real estate types here because I shouldn't waste this potential.

Thank you for the helpful replies bostonbro

>>16729942
pic related

>>16729988
glad to hear it fren. Go get that money working for you, not the other way around!

>>16729988
if youre going with a RE manager, expect to pay 10% to him and save another 10% for repairs/insurance/taxes etc.
You'll need to fork out like 10k on a new roof for example

>>16729627
What did you buy, 2 three flats? I have a single rental condo that's netting me about $500 a month. My plan was to buy a three flat once I have a real job (now). What's stopping me are the bullshit property taxes here (Chicago). Everything may look good, but then you get fucked on property taxes. They keep increasing them and assessing the properties higher because of increase in the housing prices.

>>16729985
>dewd, just bi a hause and then chawge double
Kike"lords" in a nutshell

>>16730075
https://www.mortgagecalculator.org/

Jews gonna jew, don't let that stop you from investing

Rents are typically a factor of purchase price; if those are rising so will the rents. As long as you acquire desirable properties (location and layouts over quality, you can increase the quality yourself), your rents should vastly exceed your tax+mortgage+potentially PMI+ maintenance costs

>>16730106
do you want to get fucked or be the one doing the fucking? I don't create or control market dynamics.

Goddamn fucking teenage neets

>>16729985
Yeah, that's some fucked rent. You wouldn't be able to charge that in Chicago unless it's a downtown property. You're getting almost 1% and 0.85% of the purchase price in rent per month from those properties. In Chicago, you're looking at ~0.75% if you're lucky, and we get fucked on property taxes to boot.

>>16730121
have fun when your variable rate morgage interest trebbles

>>16730183
cope harder faggot. you were actually contributing to this thread until now

30 year fixed

sorry you're poor

>>16730121
>your rents should vastly exceed your tax+mortgage+potentially PMI+ maintenance costs
It really depends on your down payment. I think the break even point is around 10% down, so you will only be building equity if you don't put down more than that. Not an easy business to get into.

>>16730204
>fixed
mr goldbergstein will fix that don't worry

>>16730135
You're charging double what the purchase price is. Either you got an insane hand me down part of the tribe deal or you're fucking retarded and so are your nigger tenants paying twice what your slumlord properties are worth.

I don't hate it, but it's not repeatable. You're like those faggots pushing their fba/re/influencer "courses" on youtube. Instead of actually doing the thing they're shilling.

>>16730121
>if those are rising so will the rents
You would think so, but the problem in Chicago is that there are a shit load of owner occupied 3 flat buildings. Owner occupied properties have tax exemptions, and if the owner is 65+ years old then they can have the property tax rate frozen. What this means is that you are competing with these old fucks that charge dirt cheap rent because they own property in trendy areas that were gentrified. Their purchase price was low so their expenses are low and it's reflected in the low rent they charge.

The condo I have I lucked into because I bought it at the beginning of 2014 when there were still some foreclosed properties available. I paid less than half of what I could sell it for now. Another condo I bought in 2015 netted me virtually nothing in rental income when I tallied everything up in 2018 when I sold it. It was a pain to get it rented too due to suppressed rental rates from all the competition that I mentioned above. The tenants were shit, too, and got booted by the garbage association which prompted me to sell the condo and never buy another property with a HOA.

>>16730209
for sure, putting together the down payment is definitely the biggest challenge. Less than 20% down you'll have to pay PMI as well, so make sure you know the market and are getting a good buy with less than 20 into it

>>16730218
bruh its absolutely repeatable

> you're charging double what the purchase price is

umm wut? do you real estate much?

the market decides the price cunt
> yes I got people to pay twice what they're worth (((((((((((?)))))))))))))

this isn't a fucking youtube channel, this was me trying to help 2 bizlets get started

The solution is to buy a cheap house. You aren't beholden to some fucktard landlord, and you can easily whether a downturn. The goal would be to get a monthly payment under 5% of your income.

If there isn't a house you can afford to get with 5% of your income, then your problem is your income is too low. A lot people worry about finances when they really have no money to begin with. A good starting point is to look at your salary. If its less than 6 figures, get a new job. Don't worry about what you're investing your pennies in it won't matter your biggest priority should be tripling or quadrupling your income.

>>16730183
>>16730204

It almost never makes sens to get a 30 year fixed. With a 7 or even 5 year fixed, its actually more like 10 years+ until you break even with the 30 year fixed. 10 years is along time. The chances that you don't want to move, don't want to upgrade, refinance, or pay it off in 10 years is extremely low. If you want to do any of that then you were better off with the arm.

>>16727963
>Buying the top- the post
Don't buy now in aus retard

>>16727812
buying a home is the greatest jewish trick ever conceived.
At least buy land first and then build if you're really going to chain yourself somewhere.

>>16730279
pretty much.
just remember the average of a 25 year mortgage means you pay as much in interest as you do on your amount borrowed.
in 08/09 all the "fixed" term rates were "adjusted" and everybody deemed unable to repay were foreclosed.
do you really expect to pay back your $400k+ debt when SHTF? no. youre fucked.
Buy gold/bitcoin and wait

>>16730252
You're charging 90% more what a 3.5 down mortgage payment would be on the 550. The other like 70%.

You're charging boomer prices on steroids, for trash, in a place filled with garbage people.

>>16730340
don't invest in appreciable assets, gamble on shitcoins!

t. fucking phaggot

>>16729388
It’s funny you make a point to mention this
I’ve heard of people discussing this when they are buying or selling houses. I never realized it was something to think about but man the ramifications could be huge if enough people don’t sell their homes quickly enough

>>16729883
>Tell me another way I can earn $75k/year and turn that into $36k/year passive in less than 4 years and I'll do it

XRP which will 1000x in the near future. Ask me how much I care about passive income when I have 20 mil

>>16730370
i own 2 properties you brainlet. (thanks to shitcoins)

enjoy your jew bank fucking you over goy

>>1673035
kek 3.5% on a 550k
> solid leverage

Oh Im sorry should I charge them just what my mortgage rate is even though I had to put forth all the capital and absorb all the risk? Fucking commie neet

>>16730304
Thanks for the concern but the suburb I'm considering buying in has risen like 10% since the bottom in 2011 and I'm paying 5% of the price in rent p.a. so I dunno maybe read my post again...

>>16730387
this fucking xrp meme.
Almost want to believe it with how much shillbots post about it, which proves its shit.

>>16730398
By the way, here's the best three flat I was able to dig up in Chicago right now:
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/7177-W-Addison-St-60634/home/13469293

$3150 in rent a month on a $500k property. If you're lucky, you'll maybe net ~$600. That's assuming that the property tax isn't under reported which is very common. Two of the units are also 3 bed which means you'll get to deal with shitty kids wrecking your property.

>>16730204
>calls others faggots
>sees a liability as an 'investment'
>calls them poor

>>16729796
>Historically the rise in r.e values outpaces inflation
Nice meme, pity it isn't true.

>>16727812
It's complicated. The west is receiving unprecedented levels of immigration which obviously will help housing prices but is worrysome for how long it will happen.

>>16730442
>If you're lucky, you'll maybe net ~$600
Not bad when you add in the principal payments building equity

As a function of your downpayment, you'd be making 10-20% effective interest and that's not even accounting for property values rising. Suggest a better, safer investment?

>>16730486
hoarding gold/bitcoin

>>16729546
Boomer rocks nigger.

>>16730444
could sell both my properties right now for 2mm and pocket almost 1mm after paying off the loans
>liability
>doesn't know what an income producing leveraged asset is

>>16729812
Yeah but in order for something not to snap you need two things:
>investors need to make enough money on real estate investments (from renting it out/flipping) to keep paying loans
>non-investors need to make enough money to rent properties enough for the above to happen

>>16730486
>you'd be making 10-20% effective interest
You're adding principal payments to get those numbers, but you need to consider maintenance costs and vacancies. When calculating income from rentals towards mortgage payments banks only considered 75% occupancy rate to be on the safe side. If you need to get a plumber out or buy a new fridge then there goes your month's net income.

I'm getting $500/month net on a property I bought for $70k. To get that much on something that's 7 times more expensive and triple the tenants is just absurd. Sure, you'd be getting about $400 more a month in equity than I am, but it's not worth it in my eyes.

>>16729985
Would you recommend short or long term rentals?
My dad is very successful doing short term stuff but he's been doing it decades. And he tells me horror stories about how hard it is to kick out bad long term renters.

>>16730537
you're right.
the problem is the central bank will continue to cover the cost of non-repayable loans middle banks lose through CLO's

>>16730520
So you bought those properties for less than 70% of their true value? Of course it's easier to get the numbers to work for you if you buy at that much of a discount.

>>16730546
>property I bought for $70k
Total or down payment? Where do you live? Sounds pretty BFE

>>16727812
Anon, buy a house in Texas, Tennessee, or New Hampshire. You can get a 10 bedroom building in NH for around 300k

>>16730557
short term like airbnb and shit can be more profitable, but obviously much more turnover. You're more of a glorified property manager/cleaning lady and with more risk. Would recommend long term rentals with good tenants. Yes, having to evict shitty tenants is a risk; one you can mitigate with a thorough screening process. It might still happen, but you're (hopefully) building equity and making passive income on the side to off set the times you fall in shit and get a crap tenant

>>16730520
kek, the liability part is the loan, don't pay/can't sell the bank takes it, sells it. ffs they can call the note in ANY time they like in reality.
inb4 >MUH leverage
property is not a liquid asset, as I've said
If you goal was leverage why not tax free REITS? very liquid
>doesn't know what an income producing leveraged asset is
you're just throwing around terms you learnt at some seminar, to sell you something
COPE harder

>>16730561
Yeah but that's just kicking the can again. If they do that more money goes into speculating on asses like real estate, which will drive prices up, and eventually the non-speculators at the bottom won't be able to afford to pay rent at the rates the investors need to cover investment in real estate. It might not be tomorrow, but if QE or 'liquidity injection' or whatever the fuck they're calling this not-QE shit continues forever, that will eventually happen.

>>16730566
no just a rise in the boston real estate market in the past 3 years. $200k of it would just be getting my down payments back so really only profiting like $800k

>>16730567
Total, down payment + closing costs came out to about $16k. This was at the very beginning of 2014 and it was one of the last few foreclosed condos that I was able to find.

I would have bought at least a few condos or a couple of three flats in 2010-2013 if I had money, but I was in college at that time. The condo was bought, just barely qualifying for the loan, with my PhD stipend.

>>16730584
REIT?

I make $75k/year. Show me how to acquire 2mm in reits with $75k. Thanks for your input, 23 year old neet

>>16730567
>>16730595
Also, I'm in Chicago.

>>16730581
Fair point, but either way how do I tell if a property is a good pick?

I would guess the equation is just a basic model of something like

Potential income from monthly rent - (upkeep costs + repairs + insurance + cleaning + taxes + sensitivity margin) = x and then see where I can get a good mortgage that makes sure X is a positive and high profit number?

But how do I measure if a local rental market is liquid (I.E. a property listed for rental at a decent price will get rented by a high quality renter in a few days)? Do I just look at the average number of days a listing lasts on zillow and then compare it to the demographics of the neighborhood? Or am I looking for something else?

>>16730585
yeah i agree. i think they'll just continue to offer really cheap interest loans to anyone like >>16730592
>the can will be perpetually kicked
>nothing ever happens
I think most of us agree this isn't sustainable

>>16729844
Buy a property in Texas. No income tax, and property taxes aren't too bad. Put at least 20% for a down payment and you're good to go.

>>16729914
Move to Austin, Texas. No income tax and prices are decent.

>>16729765
Tax assessment doesn't mean anything. They're always artificially low.

Fuck I wanna move to Texas so badly but I don't have the money yet. Will it still be there next year after everything crashes?

>>16730611
yea that's more or less the equation

I would not rely on data you find on the internet to determine if something is a good buy. I have worked in real estate for the past 8 years so I know the market well and can spot good deals, and find the tenants myself. Find someone that works in the market you're targeting and try and pick their brain. Better yet if you're buying in your local market, go out and take a look at a bunch of properties and their asking price (both rentals and sales). Just tell the broker you're thinking of the place for yourself, you have no obligation to actually follow through

>>16730662
Why do you want to move to Texas?

>>16730595
>his was at the very beginning of 2014 and it was one of the last few foreclosed condos that I was able to find.
Basically the equivalent of a moon ride, then. Finding a killer deal on a property and then turning it into a rental with very little invested is obviously great but the opportunity is something that won't arise unless you hunt these things out as your full time job

>>16728089
Couldn’t agree more. 23 here, waiting it out as real estate prices are peaking rn

>>16730757
There were actually a couple of similar condos in the same neighborhood that sold for a few thousand less than I paid the same year. By 2015, when I bought my second condo, the market was all dried up of foreclosed properties. I'm not in real estate unlike the guy from Boston who I'm sure has access to lower priced properties than an outsider would.

>>16728973
There's always going to be FUDing either way. Recessions affect each market differently anyway. With 2008, people who had no business with large mortgages, or, multiple mortgages got fucking assblasted. Just concern yourself only with the areas you want to live in. If inventory is up, you can negotiate well. If it's down (which happens in most areas hardest during the summer months), it's tougher. What's difficult in my market is a lot of baby boomers assholes now want to sell their overpriced "custom built" home and move into the cheaper, starter homes that should be for new families, so competition for reasonably priced houses is high. Mortgage rates are still low, so if you're looking at paying close to the same price for a mortgage as you are for rent, then I would consider buying. /diy/ has some good home threads on construction if you're interested in learning about home construction. For me, owning is much different than renting. I feel 100x more cozy coming to my home than going back to an apartment.

>>16730637
Why? So they can always charge more?

>>16730599
the Property market in burgerland is crazy & those number fluctuate wildly. It's difficult to know when it's a dip in the market is/when it's a downturn & gains will be wiped out, Because it's not a liquid asset. Part of the issue is, as you said you have 1mm in equity, but stated 2mm in that post, this is SO common among landlords, overstating their real net worth & confusing it with what is really the banks money. don't lie to yourself, please.
Good job on getting 925k out of 75k, seriously! With the property market as I've said is still growing (new permits) it looks positive, but when it drops, it drops, especially in the states.You shouldn't get so attached. One of the main issues in the states is supply, so many 'bargains' when it the money creation stops. triggering a dump in price. Start at least thinking about selling, you might get an offer you can't refuse RN. Later it might be the offer you can't refuse out of desperation. The whole property market is the bread & butter for the creation of money (debt), if houses are not being bought/sold money is not being created that would normally go into the supply of regular people.

You still glossed over the fact that bank owns those houses. They can, if they want, call in those notes at any time, hence, it's a defiantly liability. I can see you're sold on the RE market, but I hope you understand its also the market MOST reliant upon new non QE money (debt) creation. Without that RE dies, quickly

>>16730592
Next set of fairytale boomer "investment" numbers. So why aren't you cashing out, flipping into another very repeatable set of properties and doubling/tripling your 3k passive?

You could sell the 550 and payoff the other for 7k/mo

>>16730690
Above all I'm tired of living in SoCal and want to live somewhere there is lots of rain and thunderstorms (not just Seattle-like drizzle) but no snow. I'm from Indiana and fucking hate snow. And somewhere that isn't so libcucked.

Also a dealbreaker for me: Has to be somewhere in the vicinity of an In-N-Out

>>16730900
Fair enough. I think you would like San Antonio. Austin has too many liberals. Houston has too many niggers. Dallas-Fort-Worth is just a massive metropolitan area and will remind you too much of California. San Antonio is nice, and yes they have In n Outs too.

>>16730900
come to scotland.
comfy, cold, white and cheap(ish)

>>16730944
Are there In n Outs in Scotland? Fuck no

>>16730981
we have things better and cheaper you nonce
>burgers and cuisine
my sides

>>16730874
Because I would rather $60k/year forever than one lump sum

>>16730486
If you wanna make money in Chicago, you need to rent to yuppies in a high rise. You have zero maintenance because of the expensive HOA taking care of things and you rent by the bedroom. Find cheap shell space in a desirable property (3 bedrooms is usually ideal).

There were plently of opportunities to buy 3 bedrooms with 1500-1800 sqft for <500K in 2017-18 that are selling for 700K now and rent for $1500-1700/bedroom with a little TLC.

Good luck getting numbers like those with arguably riskier triplexes in worse areas, when you could own prime property in River North for cheap.

>>16730917
San Antonio is like 60% spics

t. san antonian

>>16730944
Seems comfy, secluded/isolated is good too. I'd love to live like a hermit most of the time and go to pub trivia or something when I want to have human interaction. But I'm worried I won't be able to understand a word anyone says there

>>16730991
Please stop telling burgers to come here

>>16727812
I'm planning on buying a 600k house in the next 6 months. Shit's not slowing down.

>>16731019
only if you go to glasgow/dundee, or maybe aberdeen.
stick to edinburgh or anywhere else really and you'll be fine. also everyone is welcoming.. maybe too welcoming

>>16731027
sorry lad. maybe if our birth rates werent falling and importing shitloads of muzzies id agree. id take a confederate over a paki any day

>>16731010
>boomer inflates the numbers again
Was 36k/yr now 60k...or are we including principal that's 15 years down the line after paying 100% of purchase price in (((interest))) in the meantime?

Sell one, own other clear, half the PM duties/upkeep, double the monthly passive (more than your annual salary). Oh wait, it's like the pajeet pnds we're all so used to; you can't actually cash out for your insanely inflated numbers.

you could have bought bitcoin 1 hour ago when i said and youd already be up like 5%
big yikes for >>16731010

>>16731013
I don't know where you're getting those numbers from, but that's how much studios rent for not bedrooms where you have to share the kitchen and bathroom with others. Also, once you account for ~$500 in HOA fees every month, which will be even higher for large/multi-bedroom condos, then it's even harder to come out ahead. There's a flood of Chinese money coming in fucking up the downtown prices, too. High rises also have special assessments all the time due to the stupid high upkeep costs and equipment costs.

>>16730991
The other guy said not having an In N Out is a dealbreaker for him, you dense scotch. Texas shits on Scotland. We have guns, babes, good hunting, etc.

>>16731307
keep it that way

>>16731108
I'm talking about highrises in River North, not some scuffed studio west of the loop. These are very desirable condos that people convert and can be worth 1M+ with high end finishes/design.

Now for example take
>https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/500-W-Superior-St-UNIT-612-Chicago-IL-60654/80841185_zpid/

You can easily find comps in the same building with better finishes in the 1M range. There's even a slightly larger condo listed at 1.9M.

Now imagine the performance of such a property in a hot market. People would pay 1.5M+ just for the space. Soneone just picked it up for 725K, and can rent it out by the bedroom while they wait with decent cashflow even after factoring HOA.

>>16731318
>people will pay 1.5mm+ all day
>one person just paid 725k
?

>>16731349
Exactly my thoughts. What the fuck?

>>16731349
And it only took a year and -15% (122k plus 19k in hoa) to do it this time (basically been on market for 5 years untouched, and sold for a 308k loss on a 14 year hold)!

>>16731400
Sorry 420kish loss on ownership, forgot taxes ;)
>haha le 420 maymay RE is so ez

>>16727812
Housing is a long game. Why do you worry about the ebb & flow of this market if your intention is to buy for residential purposes
Rates are low as fuck, you might as well get that fixed cheapie while it's still hot
>but muh market values
For what, helocs? You plan to sell within the decade? Look at how utterly btfo housing was in '09 and now 10 years later it's just as high.
You could play the waiting game but the whole idea of waiting for a recession or pullback to buy in is kinda flawed. Say you're wrong and prices continue to rise without you. Who knows when a pullback is going to happen and if it will happen at a price level that is opportune
>>16728089
Delinquencies are not alarming across all consumer credit categories and banks are well capitalized, almost too well
Idk about the idea that a subprime bubble would happen again in such short order mainly because we've already just seen it and learned things
It has been shown empirically in laboratory markets that people create bubbles when they go into markets with little experience (or information problems such as misunderstanding of products, inability to accurately assess risk) but those same people when put into a market a second time do not create bubbles and prices reflect known fundamentals

>>16731522
As an investor, would you recommend waiting for a better time to get into the market? I'm considering to do so for my first property, and I plan on renting it out to others.

>>16731522
You bring up some good points, I just feel like I'm going to be kicking myself if I jump in and prices immediately plummet 20% and I basically lose my down payment

>>16727812
>nigger thinks trump will allow anything to derail his election

>>16731318
>Assessments/Association Dues: $1,558
>Tax: $16,829.07
or $1402/month
Mortgage would be around $2,500 a month for $750k sales price with 20% down. That's $5460 per month in fees you're on the hook for.

Even going by you high estimate of $1800 per room, which I assure you that you wouldn't get, that's $5400 in rental income a month. You're net negative not counting the equity from the principal payments even in your best case rental estimate. This is excluding any vacancies or other repairs/costs.

>>16731607
In other words its gay as fuck

>>16731575
>>16731554
>buy high
you boys are gonna fit right in

>>16730350
ok commie

>>16731622
>>16731522

>>16731554
It depends on your individual situation ;] the venue is more important than macro trends. Would I buy in LA? Probably not. Would I buy in a midsize city of 150,000 or so, probably. Some markets are more egregiously priced than others. Some have better tax structures than others.
One of the bonuses of rental props is that if you fail to get sufficient revenues to profit or cover your mortgage you can at least live in the property. That said I wouldn't do this unless you're prepared for 100% liability
Generally speaking I don't ever recommend waiting to enter a market graham & dodd style because there is an inherent implication that one can time market movements with precision. The classic betting on a reversal. If the trend direction is favorable just jump in on it until it actually becomes unfavorable
>>16731575
I mean you might but I wouldn't expect a plunge of that magnitude, and I would also not recommend looking into housing prices too deeply post purchase. Once a year at most. It avoids the effects of loss aversion when trying to hold positions for the long term
A home shouldn't even really be viewed as a position so to speak either desu

>>16731622
I realize we're at a high, but we're not talking about a commodity, we're talking about a living necessity

>>16731706
>living necessity

>>16731710
Own, rent or freeload, it's going to happen one way or another. Each of them carries a unique expense

>>16731619
The Chicago market is simply fucked if you want to enter it right now as a landlord. Chinese money ruined the downtown and near downtown prices, and there are old fucks owning multi-unit properties everywhere else in the city driving rent down.

The guy in Boston is getting $2,700 per unit ($5400 total) in a two flat he got for $550k. You'd get about that much on a single unit in downtown that will cost you ~$500k, or a little over $3k total monthly rental income from a three flat that's also $500k which I posted earlier.

The rent is so suppressed here that my former co-worker was living virtually rent free by renting out his spare bedroom on Airbnb a few times a month. He wasn't even fully booked, usually just weekends and maybe one longer stay per month.

>>16731099
$60k/year after I buy 2 more. If I cashed out now I wouldnt be able to retire as early down the road

>>16731650
only if you own.
say that to the guppies who owned their $200k in debt in '09 when rates trippled and the bank repo/foreclosed their home.
its literally the same except you're taking out a mortgage 3x that size.
big fucking yikes fellas

>>16731830
So what's the larger point that you're getting at?

>>16731830
The fuck are you talking about

>>16727812
Short housing / Long Pegnet.

>>16731830

I was a former analyst for a $400m + real estate development company. Buying houses is for literally brainlet retards and niggers. The only reason the average person even knows that house buying is a thing is because of how profitable it is to sell to the average retard... second to stocks.

You are taking on debt to pay an obligation you will never fully own without having to pay to use. Overpaying for real estate right now due to asset inflation caused by low interest rates deflating the monthly expense puts the average buyer at am even more fucked position as house prices will fall when interest rates increase, and you will be underwater or forced to refi at high interest rates to access all the free money you locked into your stupid boomer box instead of solid investments.

>>16731781
Selling the 550 and paying off the 815 with that profit makes you 7k/mo sans property tax today. Using your own (made up/unachievable) numbers.

With the added benefit of cutting your vacancy/PM/repair exposure. How can you be so "smart", but can't into basic math?

>>16727812
Time in market > timing the market

>>16732524
Based
>>16732524
Too bad that long term average house prices don't beat inflation.

>>16732299
what are solid investments in your opinion ?

>>16732765
Starting or buying or investing into a new business is the best way to grow your wealth and cashflow. The money it would take to buy a $500k house is enough to start and grow a $500k/year business.

>>16732780
What kinda bizness

>>16729089
Good job anon.
The American dream

>>16732299
>stupid boomer box
When did our minds become so poisoned that we consider owning land and a homestead a bad thing? https://youtu.be/NXFmccYme2g

i heard peter schiff going off on some houses originally listing for 7 million eventually getting lowered down to being listed at 1.5 million over several years

somewhere after 42:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbZszogrDPs

Where I live (Toronto) the average home is $1.1mm to $1.5mm. Its not profitable at all to rent out your house, I know a boomer who claims she is able to pay the mortgage in full and break even with their tenant but desu it sounds like coping. Also a lot of risk and work to make 5% over 10yrs

>>16733167
and if you dont want to watch you can check the zillow price and tax history on various homes across the country, which i think is pretty cool cause it's like a little order book

>>16732071
basically what this anon said
>>16732299
taking a large mortgage means you down own the home, and wont for decades. in that time if we Lehman 2.0 the bank will raise your "fixed" rate mortage interest rates to cover their end.

all the interest only mortgages will be first to go, but a cascade will result in basically everyone taking loans for investment purposes who dont have large cash sums being liquidated, ala 2009.

don't say we didn't warn you

>>16733328
What about putting 20% down on a 15 year fixed rate loan for a $200,000 property? I have that option right now

>>16732299
So it's better to develop raw land than it is to buy an existing house? Even if you plan on doing all the work yourself?

>>16733184
What are you talking about lol. I live in toronto and work in real estate. Property values 2-3x’d in the past 10 years from chinese money...

>>16729627
Teach me your ways

>>16730075
Look into who the new assessor is. Look into what us happening to the former assessor, Berios. Look at townships suing current assessor.
t. legitimate cook county assessor insider

>>16729721
So do you handle the whole process yourself or do you have a middleman that handles most things. I've been wanting to buy real estate and renting it out via use of a middle but am unsure of how to go about it.

Also how much money did you have to put down out of your own pocket to get that place, a few tens of thousands I guess?

>>16729933
Advice anon in whether I should get a property to make money off rent. Noticed you replied to another anon before I posted.

>unemployed
>in California
>have like 40k saved up I can use
>live at my parents home so costs are low

Is my situation good for getting real estate and renting it out or not? Any other advice?

>>16730666
Are you a realtor? Or just something else in the real estate field?

>>16735838
He's making 75k in a top5 col metro, he can't even afford his own jew tithes by any sane budget. Maintenance/ handyman (drunk nonwhite) for an agent at best.

>>16729791
Man I just love living in the Eastern europe. Qt women aside, it is the real hell. I'm earning about 1,5x average salary which is 15k p.a. Condo costs 125k.