/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>16720038
looks like my dick after I'm done cooming

>>16720038

>>16720038
Accelerationism, comrade.

IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES IT GOES

Why does the educated middle class making $300-400k/year get taxed the most?

>>16720086
teaches them a lesson for trying to be better than everyone else

>>16720038
it's par the course of the top of the economy
see stock markets and waning growth
gubments are trying their best to keep the ball rolling without it crashing and burning under their term
when a hardcore socialist eventually becomes us president and starts creating tax laws left and right then it will all come crashing down
we are fucked

>>16720038
seriously shut the fuck up, kys, and go back to /pol/. I don't want to see shitty /pol/ threads here.

>>16720038
They earned that money, it's theirs. Stop being a envious commie and try *creating* wealth for a change, instead of trying to steal someone else's.

capitalists are cucks

This is why I bought link

Roman slaves had it better than us fellow 4channelers, and where is rome now?

>>16720038
I don't get why commies are raiding biz. Start small then come to biz.

>>16720188
you're looking at em

>>16720145
This is literally the opposite of a /pol/ thread, faggot. /pol/ fags would defend this. Go back to /mlp/, frog posting double faggot.

>>16720148
Oh my god, you actually think billionaires earned that kind of wealth? You economic cuck.

>>16720148
Earned by getting hundreds of people to earn it for them. Go fuck yourself, ancap retard.

>>16720038
Zoom out. You need to include data from 1900 to 1950.

Why does the animation begin in the 1950s, when progressive taxation was at ATH thanks to World War II?

commies don't understand the exponential power of investments.
Rich people use their money to make money, you use it to buy consumer goods.
As all people become wealthier the gap remains, or even rises, because of investments.

>>16720290
What does this have to do with taxes?

>>16720290
That has literally nothing to do with income tax, you retard.

>>16720312
And yet is still totally true and applicable to you personally.

The reality is that this graph is just misleading, i.e., fake. It's like the claims about "amazon not paying taxes" because they carried over their losses from previous years.

>>16720285
>thinking the point does not remain the same
So what? So taxes were historically lower and then higher and now to historical lows. Sounds like there is a clear pattern and time for it to go high again, especially with war still waging.

>>16720319
Sooo...your literal argument is "it's fake news"? You are actually using that as an arguement? Really....you are not even trying. Fuck off, /pol/tard.

>>16720319
They pay their executives in stock and reinvest in their company until they can get enough tax breaks that they can legally say they made no profit. Do you actually think over 90 corporations made no profit in 2018?

>>16720343
I fucked this post up. They buy out other companies until they can say they made no profit.

>>16720337
It is fake.
The higher your income, the more tax you pay, obviously.
But plenty of wealthy people pay the capital gains tax rate rather than the income tax rate because they don't actually have an income, they earn their money via carried interest, for example. You engage in fake news and label it an income for your fake graph.

>>16720363
They pay capital gains because they are exploiting lower taxes on capital gains you delusional retard. Their overall paid taxes IS lower. The middle class does and will forever pay the most taxes.

>>16720152
no people got brainwashed into thinking Unions are bad because you have to pay dues

>>16720385
Or they pay capital gains taxes because they made capital gains.

>>16720038
Most likely there will be a violent insurrection if we have another crash like we did in 08

>>16720038
Can't happen soon enough.

>>16720322
The 1950s were the historical exception. Sure, for a brief period of about 3 decades we had highly progressive taxes. However, we don't understand the long term consequences of progressive taxes well since that system didn't last for very long. The point of taxing the rich was to mitigate the effects of the great depression and to fund the military during the war. This system was never supposed to be permanent.
The chart is somewhat deceiving since it passes the idea that the 1950s were the norm and that we've declined since then. Instead, we simply went back to the normal state of affairs.

>>16720363
>But plenty of wealthy people pay the capital gains tax rate rather than the income tax rate because they don't actually have an income, they earn their money via carried interest, for example.

This is just skirting the actual issue of the decreasing income tax though.

I'm not sure that's the thought process of those in Government: "oh well they're paying capital gains so we might as well lower their income taxes!" ...I don't think that's what's going on at all.

>>16720038
democracy is a joke.

>>16720455
> skirting the actual issue
It's only an issue to socialists though.

>>16720038
Flat tax is the only fair tax.

>>16720148
Commies want everything without doing or sacrificing anything.

>>16720038

because the uber wealthy should give all their income up so niggers can ride buses. fucking tankies.

>>16720478

actually no, increased taxes on nogs, lower on wealthy. The rich man already owns a car, buys his own gas and insurance and drives, only using road access. Meanwhile, Jamal has all of this provided for him because muh Dick + diversity. The poor should unironically be put in labor camps.

>>16720454
>we simply went back to the normal state of affairs.
Even hardly that, simply fallen off slightly from the astronomical FDR imposed increase.

>>16720522
>16720522
t. 17 yr old white edgelord

>>16720552
t. entitled 13 yo kid.

>>16720499
>>16720522
Fuck off. Inequality in societies decrease happiness and life satisfaction for EVERYONE. This includes the elite.

>>16720454
We are learning. Increasing wealth inequality, higher rates of underemployment despite drops in unemployment, increase in public debt...if you cannot see the trend, you are blind.

>>16720543
That is % of GDP you fucking dipshit, Compare likes to likes.

>>16720406
If I give you a dollar and get paid a dollar back, that is totally different than me having a dollar. Totally!

>>16720582
Wealth isn't a zero sum game faggot

>>16720596
>Using the subjective wealth argument un-ironically.
God, /pol/ needs to fuck off.

>>16720605
No, that's not the argument he's making. "Wealth isn't a zero sum game faggot" means that wealth can increase for everybody. Inequality doesn't indicate poverty. Inequality can rise as general prosperity also rises.

>>16720623
Except it doesn't. Growth in wealth is happening more rapidly for the wealth every day when those on the lowest levels of income have not seen pay rises in decades, faggot.

>>16720647
Pay doesn't matter, what you can purchase with your pay does, and that increases.

>>16720038
neat now do the same but for revenue

>>16720552
>>16720605
back you go

>>16720038
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

>>16720582
There is nothing wrong with honestly gained advantages. And I am not responsible for your feelings, happy or unhappy.

>>16720522
>The poor should unironically be put in labor camps.
Where do you think they are already? Kek.

>>16720664
Except it hasn't for decades, you moron. Inflation has erased all purchasing power of the middle created by increased wages. No one is buying more for their money outside of the tech industry. Food especially has risen to extreme levels fuels by the climate crisis. People are making due with less money at higher inflation rates with less purchasing power.

>>16720696
False.

>>16720698
See: >>16720337

>>16720696
>climate crisis

lmfao get the fuck outta here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauser%27s_law

>>16720683

>>16720647
If some people cannot increase the value of their work that is not the fault of the wealthy. Some peoples work just is not that valuable.
Wealth inequality is the natural thing that happens when some people save and invest and others do not. Nothing inherently wrong with this. People get what they put in.

>>16720696
retard

>>16720676
Redpilled.

>>16720664
And what is happening to buying power? Everyone's but the very wealthiest is going down every year. Housing, education and healthcare keep getting more and more expensive as wages stay the same.

>>16720703
Yes, your posts are fake news. Do you perceive yourself as some kind of authority?

>>16720720
The prices of these things are being increased due to various factors (supply being restricted, demand being raised), rather your wealth going down. But that is a cherry picked list.

>>16720709
Now measure housing and transportation.
>inb4 you don't need a place to live

>>16720733
That "cherry picked list" takes up most of the middle class's income, not milk or eggs, or flour.

>>16720736
You can buy cheap housing, but you only want to live in expensive areas - i.e., places with limited supply. As the demand for housing in New York City increases, the prices also increase.

>>16720722
Every single one of your posts in this thread have been poorly informed.

>>16720754
You are fake news.

>>16720760
Dude, this is why America is falling apart, literally. People just say "fake news" when presented with reality.

>>16720720
you just named the three things where government subsidies pervert free market incentives and prevent price discovery

>>16720676
>>16720718
That doesn't change the fact that the tax burden is being shifted from the rich to the poor.
You know someone is a clear brainlet when they point this out in response to this webm.

TAXATION IS THEFT.

>>16720772
You are not an intellectual authority, and your posts do not reflect reality.

>>16720781
"the poor" are net beneficiaries from federal taxes. their effective rate is negative. "the rich" pay almost all taxes.

>>16720782
Thank you.

>>16720791
This is true.

>>16720782
No it's not.

>>16720708
>implying the top earners put in millions of times more worth than the non-wealthy.

>>16720750
Show me that cheap housin that's within a 30 minute drive of a decent source of income. I will wait. Btw, a house used to be an average person's yearly wage. Show me those $45k houses that aren't in the middle of nowhere.

>>16720791
Your argument is a smokescreen. The percent of their income paid in taxes is lower.

>>16720736
transport has gone up pretty much in lockstep with noted socialist paradise sweden

>>16720807
Effort does not equal value. I could dig holes in the back yard and fill them up again and again. Use lots of effort and sweat but my work would still not be valuable. A wise decision by a leader can alter the fate of millions for better. Much value added in a relatively short, nonsweaty, manner.

>>16720750
Try getting a good job in one of the areas of low income. Enjoy your $2.50/hr wage on mturk, but hey, you got a $100k house! Housing costs always follow average wages, brainlet. The average income in New York is proportional to the high costs. For the same jobs in New York, you earn half the wage just a few miles out of the big apple with half the home costs, etc. It is always proportional.

>>16720813
Zoning and housing regulation increase the prices of homes a lot.

>>16720813
At one point, everything was "the middle of nowhere". Baby boomers and their suburban sprawl turned the "middle of nowhere" into somewhere that is now more expensive.

>>16720791
Labor and capital should not be taxed at all.

>>16720819
Net taxes = taxes paid minus taxes received. This is what matters.

>>16720823
Sweden is retarded, but that doesn't change the fact that there's a real problem facing the middle class.

>>16720837
My grandfather bought a house in one of the largest cities in the state at the time after working for two years at just above minimum wage.

>>16720838
i agree, the united states is an empire and should extract revenue from
1)foreigners working within our borders

2) our tributaries (UK, japan, etc) in exchange for guaranteeing their security and trade.

3) tarrifs and duties, for example tolls from use of the panama and suez canals, which we should seize with force of arms.

an american citizen should pay $0 in taxes regardless of income level.

>>16720839
Wrong. Billionaires should not exist and they should definitely be paying more than the poorest people in America.

>>16720837
At least we can agree that boomers are shit.

>>16720857
Envy looks bad.

>>16720791
Doesn't contradict what I said.
I know you keep referencing the video "ten myths about government debt" but that has nothing to do with what this thread is about.

>>16720850
Demand and supply. During your grandfather's time, people were actively leaving cities and engaging in mass suburban sprawl. Millennials are trying to return back to the cities that the baby boomers left. Combined with increases in immigration, this means that the the demand for housing in cities, relative to supply, is higher today than in your granfdather's time, thus higher cost. It's not as if cities are ghost towns that nobody can afford. No, the reason why they are expensive is because people are paying those prices - demand and supply.

>>16720866
It's not envy. No one in history has ever honestly earned a billion dollars for themselves.

>>16720857
>>16720865
>I like to blame my own failings on other people. I want everything and I want it now!

>>16720875
and i suppose your workers' commune gets to decide what "honest" means

>>16720708
Increasing the value of one's work only pays out if you can also own the work you do. In modern capitalism, the hyper rich own most if not all of the businesses and thus jobs, whose wages are pushed down due to the decreased competition. Thus, today, we see doctors and lawyers make 20$ an hour while working all day every day. The world's current economic bumfuckery is not due to average people's laziness. It's because the rich collude with the government to fuck everyone over and line their pockets. This is why OP notes that taxes on the everyman rise, while taxes on the rich fall.

What you say makes me think that your political ideology is inspired by what you think is fair: making a voluntary deal is fair, therefore today's capitalism, which is based on voluntary deals, is fair. Thus, if you fail at capitalism, you must change yourself, not capitalism.

However, you must also consider the following: You shouldn't base your ideology on what is fair, because the definition of fairness is really subjective. What isn't subjective is the goal of fairness: to create a better life for yourself and optionally others. If higher taxes on the wealthy meant that you could be wealthier, you would be an idiot not to press for higher progressive income tax, provided that you are not wealthy. If you say that this shouldn't be so because it's not fair for the rich, I say that you are an idiot and a masochist. Taxes are the way society keeps the poor from going ballistic, and thus you can demand higher taxes while threatening to go ballistic.

The second thing is that a political model based on fairness really never works, because while you may think that you should be fair to everyone and let them keep their gains, you must also know that some people won't be fair. These are predators that will steal from everyone. The others, to protect themselves, must strengthen themselves, at some people's expense, to prevent the predators from destabilizing society. cont.

>>16720826
I did not say effort, you illiterate spurg. I said worth. CEOs, CFOs, etc are generally more a liability than an asset unless you missed that key feature in the last 10 years. Given you cannot read, I imagine you spent that time huffing paint.

>>16720877
Stop being an economic cuck.

>>16720892
Stop being an entitled child. Other peoples money is theirs. Your money is yours.

>>16720895
If I rob you, the money is mine now. Stop whining your leg has a hole in it. It is my money, child. See the shittiness of that argument? Money earned through amoral means is not your money.

>>16720887
There has never been a society that is totally fair. There has never been a society without taxes. Not ever. I can't give you a historical example because I would be listing all nations that ever existed since the invention of writing.

The reason for this is because fair, taxless societies can't survive. They always fall to some other society, which utilizes predatory policies to make itself strong. This is called a kleptocracy, a society in which wealth is forcibly redistributed.

This also applies to modern-day, capitalist economics: in order to keep yourself from living in a monopolistic hellscape, you must try your hardest to take advantage of the rich before they use their massive wealth to push policies that damage you. Society isn't a rock climb where taxes push some off the rocks so that the others can be higher than them, it's a tug-of-war. And the only way to not fall on the ground is to make the other side fall or to pull hard enough that they can't knock you off your feet.

TL;DR: You're a dumb masochist

>>16720884
Let's say you're a smart guy and you work your ass off. You make $1000/hr. And since you're superhuman, you do this 100 hours a week, 52 weeks a year nonstop for 100 years. This comes out to 520 million dollars. No one has ever earned a billion dollars and no one deserves it.

>>16720887
>Might makes right
Principles are a sign of a strong morally good human. I guess your moral development stopped at 16. I continue with my principles based on voluntarism.

>>16720908
Is working for a wage your definition of "earning" something?

>>16720903
I agree. Only money that was given to you voluntarily is your money. Taxes are theft because they are not based on voluntary transfer of money.

the fuck is happening in this thread?
>>16720892
>Stop being an economic cuck
>on the economy board
>>16720906
>taxless societies can't survive
>>16720903
>money earned through amoral means is not your money.
the fuck happened to /biz/?

Truth: While making 500k a year, living on 25k a year (bare necessities really), investing the rest every year, and with a return on investment rate of 10% (investor's wet dream) you make 800mil in 40 years. Billionaires shouldn't exist. They have cheated.

>>16720906
>There has never been a society that is totally fair. There has never been a society without taxes. Not ever.
Just because something hasnt been done doesnt mean we shouldnt do it. Lets find a way.

>>16720931
People with differing opinions on economics happened. Also, thinking people have not debated economic policy on here since the beginning just shows you are a newfag.

>>16720931
>meme arrows without any rebuttal

>>16720908
I earn the money my money earns for me.

>>16720956
see >>16720939

if you don't believe me, the formula to calculate returns on investment for n years assuming % percentage of return is this:

$ = x (initial investment) * (1 + %/100)^n

To see how my example stacks up, do this for n = 40, 39, 38, 37... I used a calculator but you could probably use Wolfram and do some math magic or some shit. It actually adds up to less than 800mil

>>16720939
What happens if those returns are 15% a year or money is inherited. Nothing wrong with this.
>absolutely seething

>>16720945
And you expect the rich to /not/ use their huge wealth to get guns (more guns than you) and get taxes from you like they do currently?

>>16720945
Taxes are essential. The simplest way to put it is thus: we take a percent of your income to fund things we as a social collective (society) need. This includes streets, sidewalks, transit, parks, police men, libraries, public buildings, etc. things we use basically every day.

The problem has always been land.

I believe in private property in everything except land, but also object to anything that's antagonistic to production such as taxes on income or capital. This is the only way forward.

A tax on the market value of land instead of labor and capital puts is simple to use and only falls on those who use land inefficiently.

>>16720988
Or those who use the service pay for it. Police, army and the justice system can be paid for with taxes.

>>16720956
Give money a wage! Money minimum pay laws now!

>>16720931
>why aren't people as retarded as me?

>>16720979
15% a year is an absolute bubble that's about to pop. The US economy grows at a mean rate of 2% a year, so 10% growth is already super optimistic.

As for inherited money: Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos and Bill Gates didn't inherit a significant fortune. They are self-made men and we can assume they started from zero. Them having made not 1 billion, but multiple billions each shows that the system is unfair.

And you're defending these people why? Are you a billionaire or something?

>>16720267
No there are plenty of shit threads like this on on /pol/

>>16720991
Everyone moves to small areas we call cities. People say land is running out. Does not compute. Plenty of cheap land exists, just not in the cities.

>>16720991
>A tax on the market value of land instead of labor and capital puts is simple to use and only falls on those who use land inefficiently.
This could work.

>>16720988
>>16720997

bout to BTFO the both of you: Taxes ARE theft. The thieves are the rich and the victims are the poor.

State = the rich. If it is not so when the state comes into existence, then it will be so due to taxation being funneled into the politicians' pockets. The rich = the state. If it is not so when the rich become rich, it will be so because the rich will use their wealth to fund an army to found a state and extract taxes.

>>16721007
>implying the entire economy is representative of individual sectors that make it up
It is an average for a reason, anon.

>>16721019
this is georgism and it is sorta implemented in some countries today

>>16721012
Okay? And there are trap gay threads on /h/. Does not mean it is average or normal.

>>16721013
No you dumb fuck, people move into cities to avoid all the transportation costs that there would be otherwise.

>>16721013
And that cheap land comes with no jobs.

>>16721007
Concentrated investments can earn big returns for a time. No diversification = more risk.

I defend other people because of my principles "no stealing" and "freedom to do with your body and money what you want as long as you dont kill or steal etc."

The universe is not fair. Get over it and build your own life.

>>16720582
Too bad there have been inequalities for millions of years among the hominids, which proves that inequality does not mean the end of society

>>16721013
My argument is not that the supply of land is running out. The supply of Land never changes, which is why it is a good base for taxation.

The problem isn't a lack of 'cheap' land. The problem is that any increase in wages is consumed by rising rents and this will literally never change until land is common property again.

>>16721032
I explained my calculation with a growth rate that is five times the average, asshat. I also said that they would be earning 500k a year (experienced neurosurgeon levels of moolah) and that they would be living on 25k a year (living in a 1br 1ba apartment and eating ramen every day). The lengths you people will go to justify your cuckoldry are unbelievable.

landlords go first

>>16721046
>>16721052
Cant get everything. Still the problem is not land running out.

>>16721065
Too much inequality makes life for everyone shittier because the poor want to be able to pay for rent, medicine and basic food all at the same time, and the rich don't want to have to navigate around ghettos.

>>16721057
>The universe is not fair
and then he says that he bases his political philosophy on what is fair

Your shitty "beliefs" keep you nice, mediocre, placid and content, so that you will remain at the economic level you are right now. You can expect some growth, but you will NEVER be like the people you idolize. Other people don't have your ideals and they are out for your blood. Keeping to your childish morality is just naive.

>>16721067
Price fixing always creates more problems than free market pricing.

>>16720939
>>16721007
These people aren't billionaires because they made a shit ton of money and invested it. These people are billionaires because of the value of stock they own. Literally value creation. What value have you created?

If you were actually able to think for yourself you'd be more pissed about payroll tax caps.

>>16721072
Did you reply to the wrong post, brainlet because I was adding credability to your post by saying it is not as unlikely as the other anon said. Stop huffing paint, anon. It is killing your brain.

>>16721072
>what is deviation around the mean

>>16721077
Literally who thinks land is running out though? No one cares about that anyway. People naturally only care about themselves, not supply. That is why demand is independent of supply. No jobs = lower prices and vice versa.

>>16721077
>Cant get everything
>I offer no rebuttal to your argument but still I am right

The problem is not land running out. Actually, there is no problem. This is why there are suburbs and why cities expand. The people who have /a/ problem are the ones getting evicted because they can't keep up with the rising rents in the city. Seriously, do you have to make everything conform to your hillbilly ideology?

>>16721082
If inequality is bad for everyone then everyone can donate their money voluntarily to each other and bad becomes good.

>>16721085
I agree, the point of land VALUE taxation is that a free market decides the land values

>>16721085
So it's okay for pharmaceutical companies to charge whatever they want for life saving medication because the free market is always better? Capitalist absolutists are cucks, I'll say it again.

>>16721084
The universe is not fair. Some people are born now and some are 10 000 years from now. Some are stupid some are smart. This doesnt mean we should initiate violence towards those better off than us. Human choices can still be morally right.

>>16721082
Rich are soon going to have to deal with far more than that if conditions continue to get worse and they know it. That is why the rich-run jew media is calling for UBI to stave off the coming revolution. It won't "fix" anything as the economy will just readjust, but people will "feel" like they have more money.

>>16721109
I am not responsible for your life or happiness. Companies can charge what they want. If you don't like the price make your own product.

>>16721088
No, I AM pissed about taxes because, as I mentioned, taxes are theft from the poor by the rich.

>What value have you created?

This is like saying that billionaires /deserve/ their wealth. Well I'm a resident doctor and I make people better 10 hours a day, sometimes nights. I make 12k a year. What do I deserve anon?

Don't tell me to get a better job or some shit because the point I'm trying to make is that the notion of "deserving" is cucked. You get what you can take. That's that. You can't justify the billionaire's wealth with "muh jobs"

>>16721123

>>16721113
No, I'm not making a moral argument you nonce, I'm making a practical one. Here it is for the 3rd time or something:

If you do not try and eat the rich, they will eat you first because they have more money.

No morality, no nothing. Just pros and cons.

>>16720038
>>16720152
if what you're promoting is a system in which it is a violation of federal law to withhold the money that you claim i owe you for the shit roads and the shit fluoridated water that you force on me without my consent, then what you're promoting is a goddamned scam
quite frankly, if people in the west were unchallenged by the law in forming their own municipalities, collectivism would quickly be realized by the greater public to be the most pervasive memetic virus to whites—being generally generous and kind people—ever to have existed

if we are to assume that any social issue at all is of any objective importance to all "people" simultaneously—let alone your goddamned entitled opinion—then the following paragraph is for you
taxes might be higher *on paper* in the better economy of the 50s, but good luck getting each of your branches across the country to successfully tax everyone that doesn't want to pay you in a society that conducts all its transactions outside of the kind of unified system in which transactions are traceable to names and locations such as the ones that we have today

>>16721129

Jesus Christ, really? You're fine with people becoming essentially enslaved to big pharma because they can charge what they want. Not everyone can just make their own insulin, you twit. What are you, a sociopath?

>>16721136
I would rather defend the "live and let live" attitude. This "eat the rich" shit is what keeps africa africa. I don't want to live in africa.

>>16721136
anon do you think there is another way?

Capital is man made. Land is not. There should be no taxes on production. But the produce of the earth should be shared by all. These seemingly contradictory statements can only be reconciled by collecting the surplus value that occurs as a result of holding land.

>>16721156
Don't bother. Yes, he is a sociopath. It is what unregulated capitalism breeds.

>>16721130
You're either retarded or a troll.

>>16721156
>advocates for stealing and calls me a sociopath
checks out

>>16721156
Work, live within your means, buy insurance and save. Take help from family and friends and private charity. It is not that hard anon.

>>16721166
I sincerely hope you're a sheltered teenager who will grow out of this.

>>16721166
No, in this "live and let live" attitude is what surprised Neville Chamberlain when the Nazis invaded Poland. History is determined not by those who live peacefully, but by those who are aggressive and attack. This is not a moral statement, and I reiterate, but a fact. If you are a pacifist, you have fewer chances of survival than an aggressive, scamming, lobbying con artist. I know this because the Senate and House are full of them. Panama Papers etc. So if you wanna survive, you had better fight dirty like them.

>>16721189
>either way I'm right lul

>>16721197
I hope you realize making the west africa doesnt help anyone. Eating the rich is what makes shitholes.

>>16720086

Baffling desu - esp with the SALT changes

And these losers voted Trump and supported the tax cuts lol

>>16721209
>ignoring that people in africa don't have anything to eat, let alone rich people
>ignoring that african countries have the lowest gini coefficient out of every other continent, making them the least equal continent
>ignoring that any economic growth africa has is because labor is so cheap there, so basically workers suck their bosses' dicks

>>16721200
Self-defence is good. Attacking is bad. Mmkay?

>>16721156
you're exactly right—not everyone CAN make their own insulin, and far fewer are capable of synthesizing it for those whose bodies can't do it naturally
imagine thinking that you have the moral high ground in forcing any level of financial and legal gymnastics that objectively have nothing whatsoever to do with the question of "are or aren't you able to synthesize insulin for people who would like to buy it" on those few chemists who ARE capable to begin with
in addition to this point, it should be said that neither pharmaceutical companies or enterprising individuals are under any kind of obligation in life to produce anything for anyone—if they stopped producing because you're literally stealing too much money from them for their operations to be profitable and you blame THEM for their refusal to bankrupt themselves, then you're a fucking idiot and a shitty leader
(not to mention, a sociopath)

>>16720086
>three figures
>middle class

did you go to a private school anon?

>>16721190
>>16721209
Equating western Africa to putting limits on big pharma is ludicrous. Also, saying it's fine for all buying power in a society to be funneled to the very top because "taxes are theft" is retarded. Get a job, read some books. Talk to more people.

>>16721227
How did eating the rich work out for north korea? I wonder what the inequality in that country is like.

Inequality is a manufactured problem created by pampered rich women.

>>16721228
Attacking is the best defence. And what are you saying, that you're going to "self-defend" against taxes? What are you gonna do, shoot the police when they come to detain you? They always bring two officers just in case.

>>16721229
I think companies should be able to sell whatever they want to whoever they want at whatever price they want.

What baffles me is WHY what you're describing is happening... it doesn't seem to make economic sense for a rational actor to behave that way. Maybe there are other factors in the medical system that need to be addressed?

>>16720038
These stats are meaningless. You need to look at what the effective tax rate is.
If the 'income tax' for someone making $1m is 70% (700k), but anyone can hire a good accountant and either structure expenses or income such that you only pay 100k in taxes, then the effective tax rate is 10%.

>>16721227
>ignoring that all that is outdated info and, baring a few exceptions, nearly all of Africa is in an economic explosion since China basically bought the whole continent.
Anon...you need to read some news....from this century.

>>16721241
If people voluntarily give their money to the rich then so be it. Nothing wrong with this.

>>16721243
>deflecting

North Korea literally has a caste system called songbun, you ass. North Korea wasn't created due to eating the rich, it was created due to the soviets wriggling their way into Asia. It has been kept alive with Chinese support, China being more capitalist than your pampered American ass will ever know.

Songbun is a system where loyalty to the party is rewarded with better housing, stipends, liberties, etc. People who speak against the party are thrown into the farms to die. Of course, not everyone can enjoy the full benefits of being loyal to the party, so the people who form the North Korean "middle class" are really only the children of the previous middle class. Tell me how they ate the rich again?

>>16721229
As a leader, you make government run facilities that make insulin and sell it at a reasonable price. Do you have any idea what the profit margins in pharmaceuticals is?

>>16721259
>Person will die without x thing from rich
>Voluntary to get it

>>16720973
>>16721072
Declaring that earning billions is impossible based on arbitrary numbers and a specific scenario is idiotic. 10% ROI might be a great number if you're investing conservatively on stocks, hell people used to get 14% on my shithole country's government bonds a couple of years ago. You don't hear many stories of would-be billionaires getting rich through financial investment compared to those who have started or fundamentally changed entire industries, 10% in that case seems to be on the low side.

>>16721257
>lowest gini coefficient
>cheap labor

come again? africa is always in an economic explosion because they're so fucking poor. Earning 1$ is a 100% increase when you only have 1$, but earning 2$ is a 2% increase when you have 100$, even though the actual economic gain was double.

Just to make sure, what's 1 + 1?

>>16721266
Eat the rich people are useful idiots to bring in a totalitarian hell.

>>16721271

>>16721267
Do you have any idea how much it costs to create new drugs? And how many of those new drugs fail resulting in huge losses?

>>16721275
Actually, Warren Buffett made his fortune primarily through stocks. And I'm not examining a specific scenario, I'm examining the BEST possible scenario. If you can't make a billion when you're in the BEST position financially, then the game is rigged.

If you're investing conservatively on stocks, you make 2%, exactly as much as you'd expect from the economy. If you're making 10%, you are rolling in money and have 300IQ at investing.

I'm not the one making the numbers up, YOU are because you want reality to fit your crazy libertarian narrative.

>>16720038
I think tax rates correctly correlate to the amount of work/intelligence it now takes to become rich. Early on in a simpler world, some retard could hammer a stick into the ground and accidentally strike an oil well and become a millionaire, vs today which requires top intellects and billions in equipment to achieve the same result.

>>16721286
This is funny.

>>16721291
Guess what? Big pharma doesn't spend shit on research. They say they do to trick people like you. All they care about is profit, so they make drugs that are basically the same as ones they've already made. You're being lied to and you're eating it up. They think you're stupid and I guess they're right.

>>16721281
>non-argument

>>16721303
Warren buffet made over 10% you know... Your best possible scenario is not the best.

>>16721306
This >>16721271 is the first time I've ever seen the 'We are being oppressed by nature' argument used unironically. I've been waiting for the chance to use this picture for ages, always thought it'd be on pol, never here.
Thank you, commieposter.

>>16721286
Did not claim it was oppression, which is an overused buzzword. Just saying it is voluntary is not only a lie, but retarded. Perhaps you cannot afford your anti-retard meds. While we are at it, can we talk about benefit of privately-owned late term abortion facilities? You would make a great candidate, faggot.

>>16721309
If you don't like it - don't buy it.

>>16721329
You can't just choose to not buy a medication you need to live.

>>16721320
>this dude won't give me stuff I wouldn't normally have myself for free
>therefore my agreement to work for him for his stuff is involuntary
I can tell by how mad you're getting that you know the comic had you pegged 100%.

>>16721313
You are trying to defend his tens of billions with this? If we assume even a 20% increase, he still only makes 1-2 bil. And that's assuming he has a yearly, non-investment income of 500k, and lives like a walmart cashier with 25k. And the fucker has 89 billion dollars. This is beyond mental gymnastics. This is olympic mental figure skating levels of cuckoldry.

>>16721329
>if you think it's too expensive, just die!

>>16721343
Need insulin? Lose weight. Put that burger down for a second. Nowadays poor are fat and claim oppression because of their 200kg of fat.

>>16721353
Buffet has invested for over 40 years...

>>16721353
>>16721360
Everyone deserves to have their basic right to their own body and wealth/stuff protected. Rich or poor.

>>16721360
Everyone has to die at some point. Welcome to the club.

>>16721365
>what is type 1 diabetes?

>>16721360
You are conveniently forgetting all the private charity that exists.

>>16721365
i can't even
you need insulin for diabetes, for which the only cure is INSULIN

let me, a doctor, educate you:

Insulin is a substance that is responsible for making your cells absorb glucose (the primary way the body absorbs energy), so that they can convert it to useful forms. Diabetes is a disease where insulin isn't produced, or cells are less sensitive to insulin, so either way you can't absorb glucose very well.

Diabetes is actually slimming; the way you gain fat is through the cells transforming glucose and other molecules into fat, but since diabetic cells can't absorb glucose, they can't make fat. In order to combat this, the cells absorb fat directly from fat cells, so you lose fat.

The reason you see many diabetics being fat is because those people often consume lots of glucose, and high glucose (referred to as high blood sugar) is one of the causes of diabetes. So they were fat before they got diabetes.

If a fat diabetic loses weight, then they are a slim diabetic. They still need insulin. Your stupidity is laughable. You are an idiot.

>>16721396
Work for your money. What? Cant work? Maybe your genes shouldnt continue if you cant even take care of yourself.

>>16721404
Yes, the tax-deductible charity.

>>16721365
>>16721380
>>16721386
>>16721394
>>16721404

You've been trolling me this whole time! Good job, dude, seriously.

>>16720853
lol at this imbecile

>america america fuck everybody else
said the burger while sucking BIgJewishCock

>>16721041
isn't that lin manuel miranda?

>>16721396
>this other person has stuff
>I need stuff
>the fact he won't give me his stuff for free means my agreement with him to labor/pay for his stuff is involuntary

Everyone should have to give everyone everything until nobody has anything. Then when nobody has any of the stuff that other people need, all agreements can finally be voluntary.
And when you look at it that way, Socialism and Communism really were successful.

>>16721411
>remember the private charity!
>if you can't pay, just die
>literally eugenics

>>16721365
This comment offically proves you are an uneducated retard. Time to filter your posts since they clearly have no value. Arguing with a literal mental inferior is not worth the time. Perhaps you should eat a bullet.

>>16721418
you and me both fren

>>16721394
>45 posts by this ID
How much do you get paid to posts here? How do I get your job?

>>16721426
tax land not people

>>16721436
wtf is the point of this post?

>>16721426
You are the guy who wanted to kill the rich and well off people now criticizing me for letting the nature do its thing.

>>16721436
btw land is already taxes to space at this point. Where I am, the land tax is so humongous that we had fucking molotov cocktail parties over it

>>16721429
Found the fat one.

>>16721426
Doctors aren't just sitting around doing nothing because people can't pay. Nor are there massive warehouses of drugs that are thrown out because nobody bought them. Doctors work as much as they can and health care services and products are utilizing their entire supply. Very few additional people can be served. Increasing supply is necessary. Reducing price would increase demand, and the extra demand can not be served. Drugs and healthcare are expensive because demand is high relative to supply. Supply must be increased by removing patents and excessive licensing restrictions. Price controls do not help more people get served, merely they will change who gets served from being those who are willing to pay more to those who are chosen in some rationed system.

>>16720988
>you need all these things goy otherwise our privately hired mercenaries will fuck up your town or area. You need to pay for all our zogbots, military, police, etc

Its for your own good goyim. You dont want start from zero every other decade, be a shame if some war or calamity struck you. If you pay nothing bad will happen to you, promise.

>>16721451
no, I was criticizing you for being all "live and let live bro, just live in peace bro" and then being all "diabetics should just fucking DIE". Btw, I believe that people should only have children if they have much more than enough to raise them, just in the case that they need insulin or some shit. Either way, insulin doesn't cost that much, the price is just inflated by oligopolistic companies. The proper solution to avoid unrest and the healthcare system falling into disrepair is simple price controls.

>>16721459
>kill the poor

>>16721458
>YOU'RE FAT, I BET YOU NEED INSULIN

>>16721477
Stop preventing companies from serving the poor with patents and licensing restrictions.

>>16721459
Uhh, this isn't about doctors, this is about insulin. Enough insulin is produced to serve in fucking cocktail bars, but companies increase its price many times over to increase their profits. In short, it's artificial scarcity. It's not an economic issue, but a political one. Either the companies win, so diabetics have to sell their kidneys to survive, or the public wins, so the prices go down and companies make a lower profit, but at least diabetics can survive like anyone else. Isn't that the point of technology, to make more people more productive?

>>16721455
No, it's not taxed enough and labor and capital are taxed way too much.

If land is taxed enough, why is there still vacant land in cities?

>>16721479
Stop letting companies literally kill people because people will buy at any price if that item saves their life.

>>16721487
I happen to be in need of money to buy food. Would you be so kind and give me 200 euros? No? Stop killing me!

>>16721487
Blatantly wrong. Scarcity is real, because of socialist restrictions on supply. You are killing yourself.

>>16720791
As a self- inflicted poor, I completely support this post. I get way more back for my yearly tax return than I pay.
For all the doubters out there, have children.

>>16721500
I am dying of hunger, would you give me 300?

>>16721500
Competition drives prices down to the market equilibrium. Restrictions on supply - which your lack of concern about indicates you probably agree with - allow price increases beyond this point

>>16721505
Some people don't want to understand that price is a control valve in economy. Lower price = lower production. Higher price = more production.

>>16721007

>Self-made
>Unfair

Pick one faggot

>>16721500
>>16721487
You two are KILLING ME by not giving me money for food! I NEED FOOD TO SURVIVE! STOP KILLING ME AND GIVE ME MONEY! NOW!

>>16721303
>2%, exactly as much as you'd expect from the economy
Doesn't check out at all. The stock market has been doing much better than the US economy overall thanks in part due to FED and its monetary policies inflating the prices. How do you get only 2% from a sustained bull market?

Also, >>16721227
Biafra on a single point in time isn't representative of all West Africa.
Low Gini=Low Inequality=Most equal.

>>ignoring that any economic growth africa has is because labor is so cheap there, so basically workers suck their bosses' dicks
Cheap and abundant labor is not an unique feature to West Africa. This can very well describe most regions that are or were underdeveloped and densely populated at some point in their history. It is also one of the key elements that allow industrialization especially when productivity is relatively low, as has been the case in England during the Industrial Revolution and most recently in South Korea and PR China.

>>16720038
Tax should be flat. Jk income tax shouldn't exist.

>>16721517
Except there isn't competition and insulin is economically inelastic. You capitalist purists never actually study economics and it's obvious.

>>16721495
There isn't. I don't know what city you live in but people aren't stupid enough where I live to hold on to empty land.

>>16721505

What "socialist restriction" is there on privately-run insulin companies?

>>16721504

No, this is like me owning all the food in the world, you asking me for some food, and I say "sure, I'm going to give you food for the next month, but you have to be my slave for the next two months". This isn't a handout, it's knowing how to live together without killing each other.

>>16721541
but it was discovered over a century ago

what changed between then and now?

>>16721429
>comment
You're clearly a tourist from somewhere else. Go back.

>>16721546
You need to serve my needs without getting anything in return. You have enough money to give me some. Stop killing me and give me money! NOW!

>>16721536
ok fine, i slipped up. it has the highest gini.

>not unique to africa

and? there are other nations that are poor.

>2% doesn't check out

yes it does. 2% is the growth rate of the entire economy, and the stock market adequately represents the entire economy. You can't get more average stock growth than the average growth of the economy, those two are basically synonymous.

>>16721546
> Except there isn't competition
because of socialist restrictions, which you appear to support. Obviously all barriers to entry should be removed.

>>16721546
Literally every city on earth has vacant lots you retard.

Taxes on labor are indefensible. You can't just steal people's money because you don't like what they're doing, the fact that they have a lot of money is USUALLY proof that people are willing to pay them for what they do.

What i'm saying to you is the real reason why poverty exist is because landowners are allowed to privatize gains from land values. If we could find a way to distribute the producer's surplus from holding land to everyone, and place no taxes on labor or capital, we'd have the most economically efficient society possible, and it would be more equitable than this system.

>>16721561
ok buddy retard

>>16721546
>What "socialist restriction" is there on privately-run insulin companies?
For starters, patents.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mylan-sanofi-lantus-idUSKBN1OC1MN
https://diatribe.org/issues/62/new-now-next/8

>>16721541
Sir, I need that 300 euros to survive. Please, don't kill me.

>>16721566
You ignored the more important part of my post. The elasticity part. So you can't come up with a reply?

>>16721594
The elasticity part is only relevant to monopolistic scenarios.

In a competitive market, consumer surplus exists, as companies sell the product for lower than the consumer would potentially pay for it, in order to attract customers from competitors.

>>16721594
it had inelastic demand a century ago

why was it cheap then?

>>16721594
You are literally killing me by not giving me money for food. Or do you not believe your own shit when you have to be the one handing out free money?

>>16720086
because they dont have enough money to buy the government

>>16721609
It's not cheap in America.

>>16721601
The market is not competitive because of patent law. Generic kinds cannot be made yet. The solution is to tell the pharmaceutical companies to fuck off and that they cannot do whatever they want to diabetic people who will pay anything to live.

>>16721526
I can rob you. That makes me self-made money. That is fair, right? Give me your money. Now. By your own logic, it is fair, so why not?

>>16721636
>The solution is to tell the pharmaceutical companies to fuck off and that they cannot do whatever they want to diabetic people who will pay anything to live.

Hey guys I know that this life saving thing didn't exist before you invented it, but now that you made it you can't ask people to pay for it because they need it.

>>16721564
>and? there are other nations that are poor.
Were poor and are "rich" or aren't as poor now.

The Dow Jones grew 2.5% on last December alone. There's a clear disconnect between stock markets and the real economy.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/stock-market

>>16721650
How did buffet rob you?

>>16721636
> The market is not competitive because of patent law
So end the law.
> The solution is to tell the pharmaceutical companies to fuck off and that they cannot do whatever they want to diabetic people who will pay anything to live.
The whole idea behind the patent law is to protect companies from competition to allow them to charge high prices in order to get more returns on their invention as a reward for inventing it. This is the purpose of the patent law. Not wanting to remove the patent law, while complaining about the high prices is bizarre. Price controls without removing the patent law would result in shortages unless rationed.
Removing the patent law is necessary to lower prices and increase access.

>>16721564
Literally every decent stock, including ones that had stable growth for decades in the bond market, are 5-7% or higher you retard. You know nothing about growth rates and stability.

>>16721636
it USED to be cheap in america

since this is a relatively new problem yet insulin has been around for 100 years, I think it's fair to say that you can't blame capitalism for the price increase

>>16721652
All you guys can do is strawman. I'm not saying it should be free. It also shouldn't be priced at 10 times what is is in Canada because they can get away with it.

>>16721652
literally the opposite of what actually happened lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin#Patent

>>16721123
holy based

>>16721672
Capitalism is the sole reason for its increase in price.

>>16721601
Okay? Explain the "carving out of territories" model we currently see. Companies seem fine with making some money if it means not competing. How do you seek to stop that without restrictions? I hate it when you fake capitalist shills just assume company intent.

>>16721684
capitalism gave you cheap insulin for a century

what made the price skyrocket was government regulations and the insurance industry lobbying

if you can lobby for it to happen, it's not capitalism. the government should be as hands off as possible.

>>16721694
There are many restrictions in the internet industry.

>>16721667
>every decent stock
>read: not every stock

>>16721706
the free market will make it wireless anyway

>>16721700
I'll admit I'm not an expert on the history of insulin pricing. However, since patents should be around to protect people's intellectual property, the government can't just be completely hands off. They need to intervene in the market and stop this bullshit. The INVISIBLE HAND isn't always going to save the day.

>>16721658
>links to "stock market" as proof of.... what?
2,5% is basically the growth rate of a modern, industrial, service-based economy. Is this relevant to your nonsensical post? What exactly do you want to prove?

>>16721719
Yes.
Feel like the hysteria about 5g being a source of cancer is coming from socialists not wanting wireless to develop more, due to its competition boosting effects.

Everything gets blamed for cancer - microwaves, radios, wifi etc (any maybe they do?) but this 5g causes cancer meme has been pushed as being more legitimate than the others.

>>16721694
Can't wait for StarLink to fuck these guys up oh my god.

>>16721585
Page not Found

Lol do you keep that link on hand just for this occasion?

Patents are not """socialist restrictions""", they're property, the most capitalist thing I can imagine. Patents weren't a think in the Soviet Union because everything belonged to the government lol. Patents protect companies and increase their profits because they decrease competition. Are you really this retarded?

>>16721743
Intellectual property isn't property. It's not tangible.

I'm really glad gwRRT4mE stopped posting.

>>16721706
Yes? And? You think if the restrictions went away all companies would be going for the throat at one another? Fuck no because they lease lines, carve out land, etc. that no other company can or wants to compete with. They just farm money and you seriously think removing all restrictions would make them do that? That's delusional. At best, we would see more puppet companies like Frontier that pay the big companies and price match.

>>16721720
I posted a link above. The price has only mooned realtively recently.

You're blaming the invisible hand, but in this case the hand is completely visible. Read the link I posted above about the history of insulin. The issue isn't even patents. It's the insurance industry fucking you over because you cry about regulations and then blame capitalism when the regulations are written by the industry they seek to regulate.

>>16721732
How do you feel about taxing the market value of land instead of labor and captital?

>>16721420
seething third worlder detected. you are indeed lucky we are so cucked by the jews otherwise we'd be sailing an aircraft carrier over to drain your shithole for all it's worth, like the old days.

>>16721571
>vacant lots
That get developed. Cities expand. Nobody holds on to empty land for long.

>land tax only

Yes, and then capitalists with truckloads of money impose more taxes on you because they lobby or they make a revolution with mercenaries or some shit. Your georgian liberarian utopia isn't feasible retard, get out from your basement once in a while.

>>16721759
>How do you feel about taxing the market value of land
I don't really like it, but land has a naturally limited supply (though that supply is not nearly exceeded, yet), so it seems more legitimate to tax from that regard.

>>16721752
Double think feels uncomfortable.
>Demands free stuff but isn't willing to give free stuff to others

>>16721566
No, capitalism naturally leads to monopolies and oligopolies, like what happened in the gilded age, where railroads and oil were both, at some point, held almost entirely by one company/individual.

The way these monopolies came to be dismantled is through government intervention, something which you would call a "socialist restriction". When will you stop getting your political ideology from 2b2t, the OLDEST ANARCHY SERVER IN MINECRAFT?

>>16721743
it was two links, did you highlight both and try to open it as one link?

>>16721717
God you are retarded. Averages exist. I bet you have never even traded stock because you clearly do not know anything about average rates. Hell, you can get a fucking SAVINGS ACCOUNTS at higher rates that that, faggot. The growth rate has only a tenuous impact on the stock market and generally they operate COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT of one another because stock is not growth, dumbass. I really wish they would ban you fucking larping /pol/tards. Mods must be drunk from new years.

>>16721756
You've been a bro this whole thread.

>>16721788
Never happened.
Standard Oil being a monopoly has been thoroughly debunked. The break up of standard oil led to lower production of oil and higher prices. Standard Oil was broken up because some of it competitors lobbied the government to do so because they were out-competed.

The mechanism of predatory exploitation of consumers requires substantial monopoly power that is used to increase prices, thereby reducing the outputs sold. But Standard Oil had no initial market power, with only about 4 percent of the market in 1870. Its output and market share grew as its superior efficiency dramatically lowered its refining costs (by 1897, they were less than one-tenth of their level in 1869), and it passed on the efficiency savings in sharply reduced prices for refined oil (which fell from over 30 cents per gallon in 1869, to 10 cents in 1874, to 8 cents in 1885, and to 5.9 cents in 1897). It never achieved a monopoly (in 1911, the year of the Supreme Court decision, Standard Oil had roughly 150 competitors, including Texaco and Gulf) that would enable it to monopolistically boost consumer prices. So it can hardly be argued seriously that Rockefeller pursued a predatory strategy involving massive losses for decades without achieving the alleged monopoly payoff, which was the source of supposed consumer harm.

>>16721736
>Starlink
Nice meme, Elon nutsack fluffer.

>>16721678
>Hey I know you guys invented this life saving thing but now that it's here you have to sell it at a price I like because people need it.
Better?

>>16721777
checked

>The year is 2050
>Due to McDonald's having taken over as the nation's only supplier of food, everyone has diabetes
>Insulin is now the new coca cola
>Insulin companies charge 1000$ per insulin injection
>The people march on Washington to demand price controls
>The angel, the Hallowed Protector, the God-King gwRRT4mE descends from the heavens above the White House
>"Need insulin? Lose weight."
>The diabetic hordes are instantly obliterated, their blubbery bodies split down to the last atom
>Diabetes percentage drops to 0
>Capitalism cured diabetes

>>16721750
Funny how you ancap LARPers claim "MY SHIT! MINE!" until it is something you do not have, but want.

>>16721800
K?

>>16721830
There are many tangible things I'd like, but don't have, and acknowledge that they aren't mine. Thoughts inside ones head can not be owned.

>>16721750
Land isn't property. Nobody made it.

>>16721829
Beautiful.

>>16721844
fuck off lol

>>16721825
It's gonna be great.

>>16721826
Precisely.

>>16721842
You own it when you discover it though or when you manipulate it in some way.

>>16721841
All man-made items begin at thoughts and continue as them independent of any physical existence of them.

>>16721851
So, technically, the native americans should own all of american land, which the colonists took?

Or, conversely, since intellectual property isn't property, that means nobody can discover it? Therefore, plagiarism isn't plagiarism, I don't have to pay to watch Game of Thrones because it's not a product but an idea, and I shouldn't have to pay scientists for what they do because they just spout a bunch of non-property?

>>16721865
They sold it for beads.

>>16721850
It's a meme. The project has floundered since 2015 and basically all that has happened is some idiots with their heads up their asses wrote up projected profit if the project was finished, which it is looking like, with constant delays, it never will be, just like all the previous identical projects that failed for the same reasons. Like, I concede it might work, but...yeah I would not bet on it. It is a meme project run by a meme company headed by a meme of a man with more money at the moment than brains. That is not a recipe for long-term success. Never is.

>>16721865
>Therefore, plagiarism isn't plagiarism
Depends on the context. It's plagarism, but not theft of property. A teacher can still fail you for it, but you should not be charged with theft.

> I don't have to pay to watch Game of Thrones because it's not a product but an idea,
A DVD of Game of Thrones is a product. If you can envisions game of thrones in your mind and watch it with your imagination that would not be theft.

>>16720875

Go look at the guy who created 5 hour energy. There aren't many examples but you are wrong.

>>16721769
What we say (and is emprically provable) is that we can actual socialize THAT profit that is privatized under the capitalist system, and that's all we need to do to get real equality AND more freedom in the markets.

This is easy to do with violence or redistribution, nor is at antagonistic to people who actually produce value through their labor.

>>16721770
It's the only tax that encourages people to work and is paid by those who benefit from public spending.

>>16720584
The US is doing alright. The people you call "underemployed" usually make more money than the average European, for example. Progressive taxes are necessary to a certain extent, but we have to be careful not to remove the incentive for people to work hard and start businesses.

>>16721894
At least in the states, plagiarism is a civil manner anyway, not a criminal one, and people rarely fight it because it is not worth the effort usually.

>>16721873
They got killed you uneducated mongrel.

>>16721851
I agree with this as long as there is enough good land left over for everyone else. This is the Lockean Proviso.

>>16721894
But a digital copy of game of thrones is not a product. It's digitized information. And information is not property. Chcekmaet statissts

>>16721907
>implying eurofags are a good point of comparison.
Kek. The average US citizen makes more than Helen Keller and she is dead. Not exactly something to strive for. Also, I am referring to people, by area and situation are forced into jobs below their education and cannot start businesses because of existing competition controlling the area.

>>16721878
I guess we'll see soon. It's supposed to come online this year but they have a whole bunch more satellites to put up before it's actually good..

>>16721926
making land common property would resolve this issue.. i think its impossible to 'sell' land if you don't have a concept of land ownership in the first place.

It's as unatural as owning air or sunshine.

>>16721902
I don't understand the point you're making because your grammar is not coherent. Please reiterate. And are you a mutualist or something? Fitting that your trip should be orange.

>>16721935
It exists outside the brain. Data is stored on some kind of device or serve, that you would have to illegally access in order to acquire the digital copy without paying.

If you could replicate this data on your own and create your own identical replica copy, that would not be stealing.

>>16721946
Yes of course, but my point was that you can't implement this because capitalists with guns (more guns than you because they have more money) will come and privatize your land. It is useless to subscribe to political ideologies that can never be implemented.

>>16721926
Sold land for beads, got killed in retaliation for skirmishes they carried out, mainly.

>>16721941
They said they need 1600 for moderate coverage. They got 60 up and 3 died. It's a pretty slow-moving process and it is bleeding money.

>>16721950
Ok, so if I have memorized an entire Ebook? Then should I sell that ebook as if it was my own? There are people who have memorized the quran. In ancient greece, people memorized the entire Odyssey and Iliad. So I can just memorize the song of ice and fire series and then sell it for cheap, no?

And what if a patent exists on some digitized form? What if the scientist making it didn't know everything about it, because it was so complicated he just could not do without computers? That means it's not entirely replicable, so that should be treated as property. EXPLAIN ANCAP.

>>16721947
You said
>nobody holds land that long

Yet, land owners can hold land idle as long as they want, at the expense of everyone else. The increase in land value is OBJECTIVELY not created by the landholder, but society itself. Therefore it is a more just base for taxation than labor.

All public spending gets priced into to land values. Landholders should compensate society if they want to use land unproductively.

>>16721967
>Ok, so if I have memorized an entire Ebook? Then should I sell that ebook as if it was my own? There are people who have memorized the quran. In ancient greece, people memorized the entire Odyssey and Iliad. So I can just memorize the song of ice and fire series and then sell it for cheap, no?
Of course.

> And what if a patent exists on some digitized form?
Patents don't exist.

>>16721956
>This old post again
What is it with /biz/ acting like /his/ and thinking their historical revisionism will never have any credit?

>>16721954
See I strongly disagree. Find a way to accurately and objectively price land values, and tax that.

Most capitalists would prefer this because it benefits productive capital by reducing their tax burden.

>>16721969
They can, but they don't. Because of the tax.

Plus what the fuck are you talking about? Does anyone in politics give a fuck about what's "fair"? The politicians and the capitalists care about money. And don't tell me that it shouldn't be so because it'll always be so. People will always seek to profit and rip off other people unless there's an alternative. And there hasn't been an alternative for tens of thousands of years. Abandon your useless ideology because it can never be implemented.

>>16721980
It's a confirmed fact.

"Dr Sir:

My painful duty it is to tell you of the death of your son who befell at the hands of the Indians 2nd June in the early morning. He died a little while after he was shot and asked me to inform you of his sad fate. We brought him to the ship when he soon died.

Mr. Smith a young man of our company made a powerful prayer who moved us all greatly and I am persuaded John died in peace. His body we buried with others near this camp and marked the grave with a log. His things we will send to you.

The savages are greatly treacherous. We traded with them as friends but after a great storm of rain and thunder they came at us before light and many were hurt. I myself was shot in the leg. Master Ashley is bound to stay in these parts till the traitors are rightly punished.

Yr Obt Svt Hugh Glass"

Amerindians and their socialist allies will have you believe that Master Ashley committed a genocide out of racial hatred.

>>16720145
ahh but when you're spamming about the joos it's not a shitty /pol/ thread?

>>16721987
Firstly, property taxes fall mostly on buildings. You can see this over and over again. If you have a skyscraper and a vacant lot, the skyscraper will pay MORE than the guy with the vacant lot.

That's completely backwards. If we tax that value instead of labor and capital, we'll have a much better system. Because capitalists will make even more money.

>>16721978
So if I go to a publishing house and give them my book and they say "This is a really nice book, I'll keep it for myself and take all the profits" that's a good way to run an economy?

also

>LZA76Sj5if: you can reproduce it, you don't have to pay for it
>therefore, if you cannot reproduce it, you have to pay for it
>i, a scientist, make a discovery and store it on my computer
>I cannot remember it because it is too difficult. Therefore it cannot be reproduced without the data.
>Therefore I will make a patent and people will have to pay me royalties every time they use it.
>LZA76Sj5 : PATENTS DON'T EXIST

confus?

>>16722019
Before showing them the book you could have them sign a kind of non-disclosure agreement. If it is part of a voluntary contract that they signed saying that they will not copy the book, then it could be enforced (if proven).

>>16722030
...therefore making a patent.

>>16722044
Wrong, since the patent is merely a component of a contract, not a generalized law.

You could potentially make anything illegal in a voluntary contract.

>>16722030
This is essentially what a patent is. You make a contract with everyone who comes in contact with your intellectual product, so that they can't reproduce it. If they don't agree, you don't give them the product. If they have the product (therefore you gave it to them, or they gave it to a friend or something), they cannot reproduce it or they are punished.

Really, intellectual property means that everyone that sees the product agrees that they won't reproduce it or else no more product. With inventions, it means that if you bought the blueprints or some shit, you have to give royalties or no blueprints for you. Honestly, the mental gymnastics you ancaps have to do to justify your minecraft ideology. Your trip's a cool libertarian yellow too. Cool.

>>16722053
As I said above, in order for someone to obtain a piece of intellectual product, they have to have gotten it from the creator, or from one of the creator's clients. The contract becomes a patent when it gets influence over the people that see the product not from the creator but his clients.

Also, do you ancaps think there is going to be a patent on yo-yos or something? Those patents never get approved.

>>16722058
what are ideology are you advocating ITT?

>>16722058
After getting it from the producer, the person who agreed to not copy it gives it away to somebody else without such contract attached, and then they copy it.

They could potentially make some more contract law, about how you can not give it to this person without first getting them to also agree to not copy it, but then it becomes unenforceable (for large companies at least with many customers) as they could not determine who it was that broke such a law.

>>16722074
Fascism. But that's beside the point.

>>16722075
It is enforcible. It happens every day. It's called copyright law. You absolute moron. You think any company would agree to having their product be replicable by a third party? That's like saying "I will sell you my book, and the contract forbids you from selling it. But if a friend of yours wants to copy and sell it then that's cool". Just admit you're wrong already.

>>16721989
>Implying the natives, which were not even seen as people, were the best to describe their actions.
This is why secondary sources are important. This is why /biz/ should not be lecturing on history.

>>16722089
>It's called copyright law
copyright law is different.
copyright law just takes down material without regard for how the material was obtained. In ancap, if somebody agreed to not copy something, then they wouldn't be able to, but if they gave it off to somebody else, then the person they gave it to could, as they never agreed to not copy. Copyright law however just takes down anything that the original producer of the content doesn't want out there, irrespective of how the copies ended up being made.

>>16722091
And they agree with me as well.

>>16722091
Even if you read cuck'd sources like Wikipedia, and ignore their flowery obfuscation, the general facts agree with me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Sassamon
> John Sassamon (c. 1620-1675) also known as Wussausmon (in Massachusett), was born c.1620.[1] He became a Christian convert, a praying Indian who helped serve as an interpreter to the colonists.
> In January 1675, Sassamon was ambushed and assassinated. A mixed jury of colonists and Indian elders convicted and executed three Wampanoag men for his murder. These events helped spark the conflict known as King Philip's War, in which the English defeated the Wampanoag and ended armed resistance by the Native Americans of southeastern New England.

The first Indian War was started by a particular Indian tribe getting angry that some of their tribe members were hung for murder.

They murdered an Indian and were found guilty by a council containing Indians.

>>16722114
So you are ancap.
Fuck off back to minecraft you idealist hippie.
What you want will never happen. Corporations with guns are what determine history now, and with your pathetic attitude, you will never be part of history.

>>16722145
You called me ancap for being a general supporter of markets so I went with it.

>>16722136
I seriously doubt anyone here is suggesting that the native americans weren't violent.

There were some cases were their land was pretty obectively stolen from then (only insofar as land can be owned) and other cases where they sold it for a fair price

>>16722145
>implying /biz/ is not just one big ancap larp
Newfag detected.

>>16722154
> There were some cases were their land was pretty obectively stolen from them
Such as? The Trail of Tears?

> In 1814, Britain was still at war with the United States, and saw merit in recruiting Indian allies. In May 1814, a British force entered the mouth of the Apalachicola River, and distributed arms to the Seminole and Creek warriors

The Seminole had been mercenaries for the British, who were at war with America, and also for the Spanish, who were attempting to maintain control of Florida against America.

Well, the British and the Spanish lost. After waging war against the Americans, they were rightfully removed by Andrew Jackson. And when they were removed they were paid for their old lands, and given new lands for free, so hardly a rough punishment for being sadistic cannibal mercenaries.

There's always a back story to every "atrocity" they talk about.

>>16722166
Yeah ok i got bored of r9k pol and b, thanks for ELUCIDATING me

>>16722177
look at literally any broken treaty in american history

up above when you (i think it was you) said that land become 'owned' when you mix your labor with it. I think there are plenty of cases were idians were outright robbed.

But that's beside the point. At some point, all land on earth is stolen. It's funny you were the one that brought up urban sprawl above..... you can remediate both with one fell swoop. Land Value Taxation.

>>16720145

Yes a post about economics and not crypto shut the fuck up

>>16722181

>>16720152

Leftists are all babbling about unions and it's like okay sounds legit, then they start talking about hosting tranny dragshow pedo ring shit.

>>16720038
Oy vey goyim our (((neoliberal))) economic system is the best possible thing for you

>>16722154
You can’t “steal” land from Indians you stupid nigger. They believe that the land they stand on, EVERYTHING, including that random rock that resembles your brain is owned by the “Creator”. Thievery of Land is an objectively Western idea - specifically an Anglo thing as the British were big on Private Property - hence, “Life, Liberty, Property”. Fuck off you anti-White peasant. It’s nobody’s fault your ancestors failed to build a functional country.