/biz/ - Business & Finance

You simply don't really want to do it. Motivation will never get you anywhere. People talk big like they want to do shit all the time but without action and discipline it's all bullshit. Either do it or shut up. Just stop lying to yourself and be honest that your are content doing bare minimum. That will at least help your mental

>>16706642
You must be a street shitter. Street shitters have no willpower.

>>16706642
Take it simple there will be 2 civilization after 2020 one who can talk to a machine (programmers) and the other one are normies who will stay slave for eternity.
If you are not a software engineer by now you're going to miss alot of wealth and power control, look at Bitcoin

>>16706642

Don't study, just do. Think of an app/website you'd like to use and do it. You'll have to lookup a lot of shit in the beginning and your code will be shit, but you'll learn, little by little.

>>16706681
>Take it simple there will be 2 civilization after 2020 one who can talk to a machine (programmers) and the other one are normies who will stay slave for eternity.
>If you are not a software engineer by now you're going to miss alot of wealth and power control, look at Bitcoin

this correct. this why india do become superpower 2020. many world top softwear programer in india..

>>16706681
interesting way of looking at it. Honestly I think part of my problem is that I feel like I need to make up for lost time due to my age (mid 30s boomer), which in turn stresses me out and makes me associate programming with the feeling of being stressed out which in turn makes me not want to study programming. If I was in this same situation except in my early 20s then I would feel really chill about everything because I know I could make something happen in a year or two. I guess it basically comes down to my age and my perception of time and where I feel like I should be at my age

TLDR in order to enjoy programming you have to not be stressed about it all the time, but since I feel like I have to get a programming job relatively soon due to being so old it stresses me out and makes me procrastinate and not study programming. a classic catch 22

>>16706711
>this correct. this why india do become superpower 2020. many world top softwear programer in india..

No, indians are retarded code monkeys

>>16706695
I have no idea what kind of app/website I would like to make. This is solid advice but im stuck on the idea part. Once I get a good idea though I think it might be smooth sailing for me

>>16706716
you are just not cut for it. Not everyone can be a winner. What would happen if everyone knew how to code? There needs to be someone cleaning streets too

I study computer science, I hate programming, but I am in top 5 of my class. Hate every fucking second of it, it is boring as shit. But just gotta keep on pushing

>>16706716
I'm 24 soon 25 started as a gamer at 3yo then I looked more into programming at 13yo I followed a tutorial on how to make a browser with Visual Basic, later I learned Python in High school and graduated in 2018 with a CS degree. Now I have skills in Javascript (ReactJS / NodeJS), Typescript & python.

I stopped playing video games in 2016 while I was in college after I discovered Bitcoin, it showed me that programming & cryptography is a powerful tool so I focused all my free time into programming and learning more about cryptography I also started to go to the gym.

in 2018 I had my first full-time job and in my free time, I studied programming Bitcoin from scratch by Jimmy Song in Python and currently improving my skills in back-end with nodeJS and also planning to learn Rust which a promising programming language.

Finally, this year I quit my full-time job and going freelance in 2020 which doubled my income and honestly finding a freelance job is easy everyone is willing to suck your dick because you have skills that they need like Typescript, ReactJS, Python, nodeJS.

>>16706774
damn, at least you have a natural aptitude for it. For me on the other hand, Im ok at it, far from being a natural at it and I mildly like it. I would rather hate it and be good at it than to mildly like it and just be ok at it :(

>>16706776
also as a freelance, my income is 4200 € net per month and as a normal full-time job, I had 2230€ net per month.I know this may sound little but salaries in France suck ass and I think people underestimate the job of a software engineer especially the cryptocurrency field when each nation goes into crypto as a national monetary system guess who's gonna build and maintain this shit and they will be willing to pay anything for it

>>16706808
Nah, if you have a passion the rest'll come naturally. On the other hand, if you need to get motivated blah blah blah then you might as well search for something that's suiting you better.

There's typing random shit, there's programming and there's understanding what the fuck you're doing. External motivation alone will not carry you all the way.

>>16706716
no. all made up bullshit in your head. it's not a classic catch 22. there are people older than you that learn to program.

>>16706695
>>16706726
This advice comes up all the time and yet it's completely useless. Did anyone ever go "I'd really like to have an app that would flash the upper left section of my screen in basic RGB colors and text-to-speech ABC news of the day!"
People who don't understand coding would have no fucking idea how to do it, as I do, and nobody would have the patience to understand how to access all the video stuff and data necessary.

I think this stupid advice comes from people who ALREADY know how to code, and have a good understanding of how a computer operates, how to access video, sound, data.

I'd give quite a bit of money if there ever was a course going from the fundamental roots, how binary gates operate etc, and teaching the basic layers of machine coding in several coding languages, at least the basic stuff in each of them and more developed in the ones that underlay all coding on modern computers.

For some types of people, and I guess for INTPs who need to at least understand what happens at a basic level (btw image boards are filled with INTPs), it's infuriating to be told "oh just become a code monkey you'll understand after". No you fucking piece of shit, we need a ground course about how computers treat and process information, and we need to understand how coding tells a computer to access stuff and make it work.

This drives me nuts. I understand this would take a couple years to really understand how DirectX etc works, and get a grip of C++, but I've NEVER EVER saw a course that would tell people "okay this is gonna take a long time, but you'll have strong foundations and you won't be a code monkey writing magical instructions he has no clue how they do stuff"

Goddamn this makes me mad.

OP just wants to blab. He failed the moment he decided to start procrastinating. He will continue to fail until he changes. It just takes one thought.

>>16706856
count up all the hours you have wasted thinking about intps and image boards and all other useless shit because you are an anxious retard. learn circuits if it is bothering you so much

>>16706910
> learn circuits if it is bothering you so much
And how do you do it outside of very specialized college courses?
In ancient times, reading and writing was reserved to the elites, and forbidden to randoms. Now it's the foundations of coding which are reserved to the elite.
Outside of elite courses the only thing you can achieve is being a code monkey piecing together instructions without the faintest clue as to how they operate

>>16706923
Loserrrrrr

>>16706923
here: https://teachyourselfcs.com/
now stop bitching and learn

I'm 19, I learned to program myself at 16yo by watching a YouTube channel called thenewboston or something. It was nice since they were short planned out videos of 5 minutes without the unnessecary "uhm ahh yea so uhh" that make all the other videos 15 mins long. Anyway sometimes I didn't like it at all, but I just kept going like "3 videos per day, I can do that". Sometimes when I learn through these "courses" online, I like to just skip some boring parts. I found out that the reason I get demotivated is that I want to learn some stuff that I need(for my own little projects) fast and it's frustrating when it's the 40th video in the course. So I just skip shit all the time now and learn what I like. Of course this might be bad since you might skip some important fundamental stuff, so just bear with it and watch the basic stuff. If you want good courses, then go to udemy, find a course, then look that course up online for free. Most of the time it's available for free download.

Anyway now in uni, the programming seems more interesting since we have exercises that we need to complete to get points. Most of the time they are quite nice to code. It's problem-solving basically.

>>16706823
What do you mean by studying bitcoin programming? Like smart contracts?

>>16706923
Books. You buy study books and study them. Study pure math, then study domain-specific topics.

>>16706931
Did you even read through this page
>The question of when to embark upon this journey is an entirely personal one, but most people tend to benefit from having some professional experience before diving too deep into CS theory. For instance, we notice that students love learning about database systems if they have already worked with databases professionally, or about computer networking if they’ve worked on a web project or two.

So, exactly what I pointed out above. There's no way someone can go from zero knowledge of CS to at least being able to do basic video, audio, data stuff using underlying mechanisms of a computer, if he's not already working or studying in CS.

This site is very worthwhile tho, for people already in the field. Do those textbooks offer exercises presented in a coherent fashion so you can develop skills, as a deep CS college course would?
What would be the point of paying to go to college if they did?

I'd like to be proven wrong: show me a non-college, accessible to all course, free or not, that goes from CS basics to being a coder that actually understands fairly well how a computer operates, and the very basic layers of accessing its functions

>>16706960
>Study pure math
Forgot about this point too. How can anyone think you can become a proficient programmer if you're not already advanced in mathematics?

>>16706964
The video lectures in that resource work well also for people without a CS / professional background.
The sequence that it lists them is also reasonable: start with the general concepts (Berkley's CS61A), then go to a lower level (61C) and then branch out into the different disciplines that CS encompasses.

>>16706995

this nigga gets it. MIT and Berkeley courses are decent.

Then try to pass udacity's specialization. and you will be hired. for sure.

udacity is top tier shit and it is really (I mean really) hard and challenging

>>16706968
That's what it takes to be proficient. If one rather wants to be an absolute mongoloid, by all means, skip the math books and just hack away.

>>16706923
> Now it's the foundations of coding which are reserved to the elite
no wtf are you talking about. there are more educational resources than ever before. what is your goal with programming? you dont need to become a professor of math and cs to get a 60k+ year job in the midwest

>>16706968
also you forgot about writing and principles of logic before starting with math.

how is it possible to become advanced in mathematics if you aren't already very competent in writing and logic?

>>16706668
This.

>>16707028
And how do you become mathematically proficient once out of high school and college, if you haven't been taught mathematics at a moderately high level?

Do you know of someone having reached undergrad or even grad level on his own? This simply doesn't happen. As for CS, daily deliberate practice, helped by teachers who can give you tricks, methods, and general knowledge, is absolutely compulsory.

Unless you're highly intelligent and dedicated (in which case you a most already have a structured scientific education), there's simply no way one can get proficient enough in maths so one can really understand CS.
It doesn't happen out of thin air, there needs to be an educational context. And said context only happens in structured education (meaning, there is very educated staff around to give you exercises and help you all you want to understand what you're missing), which self-help online courses cannot deliver.

>>16706668
>This

Find your passion project and start building it. Small steps and all that. You'll get done with an module and realize you've learned a ton and would do it better next time, that's how you become a good programmer.

Get on adderall faggot, your lack of motivation has neurochemical causality.

learned basic programming during my last year of liberal art major studies. Have been employed as a software engineer for almost five years now. I LOVE the feeling of getting a result after puzzling HARD for hours. I spend at least twenty hours a week of my own time doing programming related things. If you don't have this, you will never be more than a jabroni jobber gluing pipes together at some enterprise company that would rather replace you with some cheap Indianig

>>16707432
this is bs, it will just take you five times as long

>>16707564
So you mean between 30 and 50 years?

>>16706716
that feeling you had when you were in your early 20s is probably what got you where you are rn. Channel your stress

Threads like these give me motivation to keep programming. Knowing there's that much less competition. It's invigorating. Just fucking do the work or don't. I'd prefer you didn't.

>>16706968
16 years successful full stack dev here, i have no clue how to solve 64357953 / 7547 without a calculator

>>16706642
There is clearly something wrong with your brain. Sititng down and coding for 6 hours should be fun. If you don't find it fun, it's because you'd rather be doing something else and you should find out what that is.

Though I suspect you're just one of those people that want money and pleasure and not knowledge, and you think knowledge will get you these things. But you really don't appreciate knowledge at it's core, so it's a chore. In which case fuck off you are like Andrew Cunanan and you should just kill yourself. Waste of a fucking life.

>>16706642
RuneScape
Money
Bitcoin

>>16706711
No he said be able to program, not copy and paste code that you have no idea how it works at the opcode level. Big difference bub.

>>16706642
Stop watching porn and spilling your life force. Retain life force in order to build up will power. Do it for at least a month and combine it with regular exercise and notice a night and day difference. Also, don't eat crap unless you want to feel like crap.

You don't need math, all you need to know is logic. Needing math is just some circle jerk that people that went to school for 5+ years say so they can feel good about all the money they wasted.

Just find a project you want to make and learn by doing that project.

Good luck and keep programming!

>>16707847
And that's why you try to flex with the 'full stack' meme. All that says is that you can write a server using some easy ass backend framework, clobble together a garbage database without any respect for normal forms, and then use another bitch ass front end frame work to build some shitty CRUD web app. Your entire existence depends entirely on APIs that real software engineers build. So ya no wonder you dont have any real use for math in your line of 'work'. Can't wait till fullstack engineers get made completely obsolete by pajeets in 2020. Get dabbed on.

>t. Embedded engineer

>>16706642
Let me guess, you eat junk food, play video games and watch porn.
All of your energy and motivation is going at the wrong place and that is why you feel unmotivated to achieve your goals. Stop the above and you will feel much better.

How long should it take to learn VBA? I'm meant to be starting a job in it soon but I have put off learning it because of the weird fear of failure catch 22 OP mentioned and now I'm panicking a bit

Learn python. It's literally used to teach kids how to program. If you can't learn that you should consider offing yourself

>>16707432
>And how do you become mathematically proficient once out of high school and college, if you haven't been taught mathematics at a moderately high level?

Skim through a book like velleman's how to prove it to get a feel for proofs. Then focus on specific areas of math. An average undergraduate math degree is entry to intermediate level set theory, analysis, algebra and number theory. (By algebra I mean things like ring and group theory). Graph theory and combinatorics show up a lot in CS.

It's not hard to learn on your own if you like it.

>>16706776
>>16706823
it is hard to start programming at my age(29yo boomer) when I will never catch up to you. I was dicking around with operating systems/front end web and a little server management when I was like 13, but I never really started programming... Too busy fucking around doing stupid shit, vidya, friends, drugs, girls, drawing.

I would honestly kill at this age to pull even $2k/mo doing dev or IT, interested in crypto/smart contracts/web dev+design and devops. It is 'interesting' but not so much so to pull me out of my barely comfortable mediocrity. I feel like I am degenerating.

>>16707564
If you don't study math once out of high school and ten years pass, it is going to take you like 3-5 years to get through an rigorous undergrad in engineering. You could find a course with lower requirements, or do a bootcamp, but if you're neurotic like me - you would still feel like an impostor for not having high level math skills(so instead you just do nothing)

>>16706642
>if
>if
>problem however
>but
>how
>if
>if only i
>i dont know

Here you go, read all all this shit and understand it. That means you'll need to read the shit multiple times and take notes.
https://lwn.net/Kernel/LDD3/
https://www.bottomupcs.com/
https://www.kernel.org/doc/gorman/pdf/
https://github.com/0xAX/linux-insides
https://lwn.net/Articles/250967/

Then once you know a little shit about how things work, you take you shitty vidya pc and install Gentoo https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Full/Installation

This should get you started, at the same time you should read every syscall man page http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man2/syscalls.2.html and pick your language of choice since they are all making the same syscalls at the end of the fuckin day. While you're learning this always to remind yourself of the tradeoffs different approaches take and make note. This doesn't touch any of the networking side of things but if you can complete that you might be able to find your own way.

>>16706642

>Dont get me wrong, I enjoy coding, but I dont enjoy it enough to grind it enough to where I could get a job reasonably soon.

You should write up a bullshit resume and start applying for junior dev positions.

>>16706856
>>16706923

Don’t worry anon, I get what your saying. All the anons bashing you and saying “just educate yourself bro” are Dunning Krugering themselves into thinking they are more than just code monkeys.

Obviously learning basic commands and syntax is not equivalent to really understanding what you’re doing, but to them the functional definition of understanding means they are currently getting paid.

It’s amusing that they can’t say what the limits are to the scope of their knowledge. Apparently going to school to get a PhD level expertise in the subject is pointless because you can just read books online, bro. It must be why everyone with an internet access are experts now.

>>16709385
kek

>>16706716
Microdose lsd nigger

>>16706642
Programming is meme and for nerds and geeks and dorks.

Chances are a fucking Pajeet in Mumbai is 1000x better programmer than you will ever become and he will get hired for much less pay.

Be an Alpha CHAD and master Facebook Ads, sell shit online.

>>16709893
>Chances are a fucking Pajeet in Mumbai is 1000x better programmer than you will ever become and he will get hired for much less pay.
Deluded as fuck, I am essentially a retard with a degree but because I am English and middle class I can easily get jobs 'Pajeet' wouldn't even be legally qualified to apply for. The game was rigged from the start, kid.

>>16706642
The gene that makes you good at programming is the same gene that makes you smell like cheese. You can't motivate yourself for it unless you are an autistic nerd.

>>16706716
You need to fix your anxiety problem first.

>>16706642
>Im not miserable enough in my current situation to just suck it up and study programming during all of my freetime when im not working
Im not miserable enough in my current situation to just suck it up and study programming during all of my freetime when im not working. That's your problem, you don't feel miserable because you probably medicate, play video games, or use other forms of escapism that protect your from the pain of reality. If you face reality, it will be painful, but it will motivate you.

As for studying, you won't get much by reading books, except maybe an intro book to get you familiar with the concepts. After that, you simply choose a project that's interesting to you, google and find relevant APIs and docs, then bulldoze your way through the project as quickly as possible before you lose motivation. If you waste your time trying to "study" or memorize, or read textbooks you will learn very inefficiently. Projects give you a goal to organize your knowledge around, and they provide a source of motivation and satisfaction to propel and reinforce your learning.

>>16707865
Programming doesn't give you knowledge though. All the programmers I know are dumb as rocks outside of their highly specific, autistic interests.

>>16709953
>As for studying, you won't get much by reading books, except maybe an intro book to get you familiar with the concepts. After that, you simply choose a project that's interesting to you, google and find relevant APIs and docs, then bulldoze your way through the project as quickly as possible before you lose motivation. If you waste your time trying to "study" or memorize, or read textbooks you will learn very inefficiently. Projects give you a goal to organize your knowledge around, and they provide a source of motivation and satisfaction to propel and reinforce your learning.
what projects can get you hired without prior experience for a web dev role

this thread gave me lots to think about. thank you all and a happy new year

Do you fags really believe that any of you stands a chance at programming? Without having a prior background? Without doing programming since school?

>>16706668
/thread

>>16711677
>Do you fags really believe that any of you stands a chance at programming? Without having a prior background? Without doing programming since school?
I read more and more anecdotes about outfits firing toxic employee's even if they're good because it is bad for the team, shouldn't surprise you.

The point is, getting along well face to face gets you places.

>>16707847
>was taught how to divide poorly
>never learn how to divide
>just multiply and check and then subtract you find the remainder

>>16707865
unironically true. I took accutane as a teenager and im pretty sure it damaged my neurotransmitter receptors in some way. Nothing really excites me, I feel passionate about nothing. If I had never taken accutane then I would probably be a lot more enthusiastic about coding and life in general

>>16708949
I eat junk food and watch porn, dont play vidya though. video games are a massive waste of time

>>16708510
thanks anon

>>16709893
How do you learn Facebook ads without spending thousands of dollars?

!!! PENIS! !!

!!! CODING IS GAY !!!
!!! CODING IS GAY !!!

hello sirrRRRs yes very Java in needful times of big distress

just stop being a faggot OP, do it or don’t

>>16711925
I didn’t take accurate but I feel no joy and I’m a programmer. You can still do it it’s just gonna be a grind.

>>16706668
fpbp also /thread

iw awnt to learn how to python and datamine musics and comments and words.

IDK if i want to study software engineering or industrial engineering. salaries for a Jr Developer are 700 a month (latin america tho)

>>16706681
True. But both civs will be slaves. One will be niggered down in the slums. The other one surveilled 24/7, endlessly wagecucking with neuralinks sticked in their brains.

>>16712273
Sirs do the needful and taek Java course for big money job guarantees in Mumbai office

>>16706642
Don't study programming, the field is saturated and companies would rather higher top 10% talent from India or Eastern Europe for $15/hr than pay some western scrub who wants 3x that.

>>16712655
In Eastern Europe $15\hr gives you a dev with about 6 years of experience.
Juniors fresh off the boat start at $6/hr, those got cucked gigantically in the last 2-3 years.

>>16706856
Read "programming from the ground up".
The recommended books at the end of it are also pretty good.

Also install Linux, just use Ubuntu.

>>16710125
make some sample websites and place them in a portfolio. This website is a good example of what a portfolio should look like. You don't have to be as extensive since you are just starting obviously.
https://grablegraphics.com/portfolio/#

>>16707847
>he thinks math is dividing large numbers in your head

>>16706642
You’re either born a programmer or you aren’t. You sound like you aren’t a very logical person. Actually, you kind of sound like an overly emotional women, bitching about your problems as if someone on this board has the magical answer to your insignificant, insolvable conundrum. Instead of wondering why you can’t find motivation to study programming, start asking yourself why you’re okay with being a 30 year old loser making jack shit in retail.

>>16708402
Noob

LISTEN TO ME CAREFULLY OP
I took others peoples programs to make my own mobile apps. But i added my own thing. I dont know shit about coding so i just trial and error until it worked how i wanted it. Then i payed a publisher fee and followed instructions and now make 20 bucks a month.
You got to first think of an idea and then take steps to make it practical enough to work out. Overtime you get how things work. What helped me was knowing how to ask the right questions on google. You gotta look up the syntax. So instead of typing "how to make an app that uses camera" its more like "examples of sample codes for using VIDEO_INPUT ViewSurface". Study the syntax and examples and youtube tutorials. Learning curve is easy, but your ideas is hard. Be practical and step by step working, like making a solid working gear before you move on to make an engine. Im 30 yrs too. So actual learning curve for concepts and basic is like a month if you do youtube courses.