/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>16614190
Not overpriced. You did buy at 200 right anon?

>>16614190
It won’t. They’re profitable now. Interest rates remain low. Still the best mainstream electric cars - expect more competition but T has the best ‘moat’ (supercharger network, brand) and is closest to the holy grail of complete automation - they have the most sensed miles driven by I believe about 10x anyone elses.

they would get absolutely fucked in a recession. good thing we are in a bull market till 2030 tho.

I’m buying. ATH will be 2k TSLA will be a trillion dollar company by 2030

>>16614219
You think ? How can that even be possible

>>16614219
Why will they get fucked up in recession?

>>16614275
Aren't all of those expectations priced in already?

>>16614279

>>16614314
Coz I fit the majority of people and I own zero Tesla product. Even tho I love Tesla and buy American.

>>16614190

Where does the intrinsic value come from?

>>16614190
Firstly $TSLA has a market cap of 73bn, while $GM has a market cap of 53B.
Just for comparison, GM sold 8.4mn cars in 2018, while Tesla sold only 0.35mn!
GM sold 24 times more vehicles.
Why does Tesla have the bigger market cap? Because it's evaluated as a Tech company and investors believe it can grow, while GM is seen as established and can't grow.
However that seems like rose colored glasses, before he died, Sergio Marchionne who was the head man at Fiat-Chrysler (Market cap 30bn, 4.4mn cars in 2017) said that there was no point in investing in Electric Vehicles. Why? Because Apple and Google and a lesser extent Uber were running their Autonomous Driving programs, which was seen as the next step in EV.
>‘Google can buy every auto maker out of petty cash. And Apple – they made a net profit of $24bn in one quarter. This is nonsense. What are we defending? What?’
>It’s all about access to the complete information on what people do in the car. That’s when the consumer has time on hand and the business case blossoms.
We all know that Tesla isn't a "car company", they sell batteries, they have a fallback plan that if manufacturing their own cars doesn't work out they'll scale down to a small premium brand while their chief money spinner will be as a supplier of batteries to other manufactures (like Fiat-Chrysler- Peugeot who recently announced a merger?)

>>16614356
>inb4 'net amount of vehicles sold or produced is not a good measure of the value of a company'
obviously Mercedes and BMW or even Porsche and Lamborghini can sell each car for a much much higher premium.
Ferrari has a 41bn market cap. However, Tesla isn't a luxury car like Bentley, nor is it a supercar like McLaren or Ferrari.

>>16614190
its too volatile to hold and once growth stops, the price will balance (drop) itself. its not a bad investment, but not for this price. bottom line, if
you are ready to hold lgtrm and willing to weather a 50% drop then why the fuck not
>>16614219
sure it would drop, but remember cash for clunkers, add an democrat potus and $$$ it is
>>16614356
lot of what ifs that already have been disproven by reality

the fact is tesla is a reddit stock just like the biopharma zeroes people on here pump (sorry, I mean upvote)

It's fine to speculate on their swings since someone has to relieve reddit of its money, but the people who are long are toast. Guess they forgot about the SolarCity fraud already.

>>16614498
>lot of what ifs that already have been disproven by reality
what "what ifs"?
What what ifs?
Fiat Chrysler just announced they're merging with Peugeot.
Tesla currently sells batteries.
Waymo exists.
What did I speculate on?

>>16614318
Damn I hope you’re right that might give me enough time to accumulate some wealth and get it into gold/silver and leave some in bitcoin.

>>16614190
not diverse enough

>>16614356
Are these actually good points tho. I think they are logical and valid. GM only makes cars so you’re right people believe Tesla will be putting Solar roofs on every house in America soon and smart Tesla AC units.

The bull case at ARK Investments talks up robotaxis and software/automation. Can’t value this like a car company

>>16614203
250

>>16614356
Tesla sells more than cars you stupid cunt. Does GM sell power grid batteries?

>>16614919
Cope

>>16614902
no dealership tax on each car, direct sales
every car is update-able for improvements
the screen is premium real estate and tesla owns it with their own OS
top AI team with hand-picked from open AI genius who beat google in comp vision competition alone while at stanford

Above everything else: They attract better and more intelligent talent than any car manufacturer. They have the geniuses. They had top microchip architects come work on their self-drive chip. NONE of the car companies can do that.

>>16614930
>facts and correcting someone’s dumb assumptions are cope

Nice one retard.

It's like why blockbuster isn't valued like netflix. They have a ton of work to do and the entire upper management at car companies are boomer retards and low IQ in comparison who don't take risks.

Look at the world right now. Tesla was not quiet about their plan to go EV and yet those same fossils couldn't compete and crush them. Look at EV market share.

it's because the car companies are FUCKING TERRIBLE and it's super fucking hard. Tesla has the geniuses and you got some hick 115 IQ people at ford and GM.

>>16614973
The biggest bear case was

"Blah blah knows cars way better"

Then fast forward today and they are years late on competing with the model 3 and just trying to copy it.

EV are fucking monumentally hard. The switch from ICE to EV for these car companies is going to be across a gaping spiked chasm.

Where is Michigan?

>It's like why blockbuster isn't valued like netflix

Facts

>>16614919
AHAHAHAH! YOU STUPID CUNT, I LITERALLY SAID THAT!
>>16614356
>We all know that Tesla isn't a "car company", they sell batteries,

>>16614895
I suspect most of the Market Cap of Tesla is over optimistic about the car manufacturing, but yes that beleif is further pushing it up.

>>16614190
its a bubble TODAY because its valued almost twice as Mercedes Benz
but the poterntial is massive and thats why its overpriced TODAY
Elon is the Ernestine if this generation and the only thing that can (actively trying) to stop him are the kikes
DEATH TO ALL KIKES

>>16615081
Self-Driving Car play
High % of EV market share which they might maintain into the future to a decent degree
Innovation rate is higher than other companies
They have very intelligent employees

>>16615083
You know Einstein was just a Jew who repackaged Lorentz's equations with a bunch of bullshit and zero citations and proceeded to reap massive amounts of credit because of Jewish nepotism and media dominance.

>>16615066
Alright, shut up I’m half asleep. Didn’t even read all the post. Either way Tesla isn’t overvalued, they’re laying major groundwork for a couple years, then the cash comes in.

>>16615092
>High % of EV market share which they might maintain into the future to a decent degree
Okay but do you consider EV a seperate market to cars in general? Because what happens when Toyota, Volkswagen, and Hyundai march into EV. Between them they produce ~27mn cars a year. That's around a third of the global total.
>Innovation rate is higher than other companies
What does that mean? How do you measure 'innovation rate'? Are they producing more patents than other competitors?
The other thing is, they're new comers to the industry - Toyota have already perfected their production system. Tesla still makes mistakes like not having a hook to put your suite jacket, or you open up the back and the water slides off the rear-windshield into the storage.
Solving those problems shouldn't be confused for innovation.
>They have very intelligent employees
That sounds really subjective

>>16615188
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and won't argue with you since you're not fully rested.

>>16615167
I had no idea about any of that shit, thanks for the redpill.

>>16615167
true and Elon is so redpilled he called his cars Tesla which was the engineer that enstien stole all those ideas from
but if i wrote Musk is the Tesla of our generation anons would get confused

for anons reading this, research Tesla the engineer..........huge redpill

>>16614190

Tesla = The Apple of Car industry ready to kick the German car industry out of the hemisphere

>>16615279
Problem is - Tesla has very gay / $0y cars.

I mean can you imagine a Chad bad boy driving a tree-hugging faggot Tesla?

Can you imagine a Stacy bimbo getting wet at Teslas engine sound?

"OMG, he drives a Tesla, so hot!" - said no bitch ever.

Same can't be said for BMWs, Mercedes, Porsche.

TSLA is a meme and once all the subsidies are removed no one is going to buy them (barely anyone outside of rich snobs buys them now) Plus you have to buy a new battery for your car every 5 years or something right when the warranty expires

>>16615374
>hasnt taken the Tesla pill yet
you're not gonna make it faggot

>>16615083

You realize what you're saying idiot?

You're telling me the upside is priced in, I should sell now and move my capital to somewhere where the upside isn't priced in. Sure I'll buy into your scam... after a proper price correction.

>>16615405
exactly, all these faggots screaming how great tesla is don't realise wha priced in means

>>16615291
Lmao bitches do think Tesla's are hot

>>16615390
How many cars has Tesla sold idiot? The stock is incredibly overvalued by any metric other than hurrr tech company durrrr

>>16615416
No, they don't.

Bitches think following cars are hot:
1) Mercedes S class
2) BMW M class
3) All luxuries (Bentley, RR, Masserati due to sound, etc...)

To get a pussy wet car has to have dangerous loud douchebag sounds that ruin peace in neighbourhoods.

Bitch would never get wet for eco-friendly, economic and silent tree hugger faggot car.

>>16615420
I'm more interested in tesla for their solar and energy storage infrastructure.

>>16615420
read what i wrote earlier you fucking faggot
here>>16615083
its overvalued yes but the potential is massive and if you've ever been in one you'd understand the valuation
now suck a dick

>>16615463
Seething

>>16615439
Sure then the stock is worth $20 max

>>16615463
You literally have to make up explanations as to why Tesla is so overpriced. You have no financial data to support the current price. You have nothing kek. Classic tech unicorn stock primed to collapse

Tesla is a tech company pretending to be a car company, just like wework is a tech company pretending to be a real state company. The only difference between those is that Tesla somehow managed to get through an IPO, but if they don't change their focus and actually become a tech/battery company their stock will inevitably stale or freefall when reality(competition) kicks in.

>>16615479
It’s not coming down. People want self driving cars (literally the one thing everyone dreamed of as a kid besides the car flying itself) and Tesla is the closest one to completing this by 2021. They have the most data the best AI Machine Learning chip the best engineering. To say it’s primed to collapse is foolish.

>>16615479
So Tesla is a good buy right now?

>>16615566
Idk it’s at ATH I’d think it pulls back a tad bit then buy

>>16615566
I would have bought at $20 max / IPO price. Now it is way too much. Unless you think it will become the amazon of the car world

>>16615537
>people want self driving cars

Idk maybe in 2050 or 2100. A lot has to change. I agree self driving cars will be a thing and truckers will get rekt. But other companies can come in and compete at that point. No way Tesla will be the only ones doing it

>>16615634
Oh yeah when I was 10 years old? Good one

seethe more

>>16615645
They’ll be first. It’s taken 10 years of data to create there AI chip... you see where this is going? How are they going to copy unless they buy the data from Tesla

Musk will go to prison this year. He's an even bigger fraud than (((Neumann)))

It’ll be like every other novel company, the top guys will leave and start their own company to compete. Maybe if you assume Tesla will control the entire industry of electric and self driving cars, which is a huge assumption then the price makes sense / buy the stock

>>16614190
Electric vehicle sales are down year over year, the only reason this is going up is due to 30% short interest (everyone knows this is a shit scam stock). Massive competition coming.

Running through CFOs and chief legal offices like OP runs through boyfriends, that's pretty much 100% sign of massive problems (hint: fraud)

>>16615662
Tesla should be $1,000 per share

>>16615257
Can’t tell if you’re retarded, you mean Edison, not Einstein, dipshit.

>>16615759
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla
u fucking faggot

>>16615759
The funny thing is the media already brands him as “the Edison of our time”. Whilst his company is branded Tesla. Total brainlet world we live in.

>>16615792
Read what I wrote again you brainlet, how can short your low IQ mind? Easy money.

>>16614973
Yeah, they got literal rocket scientists an’ shiet

we'll see what the next downturn brings

>>16614318
squares drawn in hindsight.

>>16614190
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fndeDfaWCg

>>16614919
Tesla is a tech company disguised as a car company, so there is no reason to think Tesla could defeat major established automotive brands. That new chinese(cringe btw) manufacturing plant puts them into some high risk position if their automotive brand fails.

>>16614973
Tesla isn't a car company, is a tech company putting stuff inside cars. They should be licensing all of their stuff instead of pretending to be a car manufacturer.

>>16615167
Einstein gaves to the world ten coupled differential equations that describes the movement of mass or energy in spacetime and thanks to that your cellphone has a fucking gps, also this opened an all new branche of physics called theoreticall physics, because all he used was math and his imagination. so anon.. please

>>16614190
>its in bubble because there's gonna be a recession next year
>there's gonna be a recession next year because the bubble
Source: CNBC News

>>16614190
The whole market is irrational. Growth stocks are all overvalued. Tesla doesn't have to prove that they can have a sustainable business model. People just throw money at the company
>muh tech genius
>muh new apple for cars

The crazy thing is: they could literally get cash forever. In ten years they might have a real profitable company.

People nowadays are just retarded. Just do whatever the retards do and you will profit

>>16618585
So you are saying we should buy into this retard bubble?

Smart money is getting an accredited investor certificate and is buying SpaceX shares. Elon will buy out Tesla once Starlink is running anyways

>>16619089
How to do that? How do you get to buy SpaceX shares?

>>16616214
not really tardo

FRAUD ALERT
Elon took hundreds of thousands of dollars for preordering the cybercuck ALL INTEREST FREE
Elon also has no disposable cash and is in debt
Lithium batteries take a shit ton of emissions to mine, so all these people buying this “eco friendly” battery are fucking retarded
Also the lithium battery LITERALLY CANNOT BE PUT OUT, you’ve got to just let that shit burn to its finish if it sets ablaze
If you crash a tesla its a deathtrap, the doors lock you in, cannot be opened upon impact, and you roast alive to the lithium battery with no escape
The supercharger stations take a year to charge because they are always packed with people waiting, theres not enough charging stations
The battery slowly dies over use, and takes a shit ton to replace it
In home charging stations cost you a boatload to install and use.
There is no range on it, you cannot go anywhere where this is not a tesla charging station
Elon is a fraud and a liar who conned everyone into buying his absolute scam product, and you all gave him interest free loans to do it. He will be completely exposed within 3 years. Short tesla into oblivion and you will be filthy rich, also short DB next year. Thank me later idiots.

Telsa is fucked once the Democrats get a majority again and remove all their subsidies.

Literally just ordered a model 3 today. Can’t wAit to get my car in a month.

>>16619089
>a space company is more profitable than a car company

truly in the twilight zone at this point

>>16615430
>16615420 #
>I'm more interested in tesla for their solar and energy storage infrastructure.
>>
Lol no. Model S is a hot car and bitches would get wet for it too. Maybe not the model 3.

>>16615190
VW, lol
>https://ww.electrek.co/2019/12/19/volkswagen-id3-has-massive-software-problems-as-company-begins-year-of-ev-introductions/

There are hooks on both sides in my Tesla, what are you talking about? Water slides off the rear-windshield on the Taycan too, it's impossible to create a coupe shaped car with a normal sedan hatch without the water/snow problem. Just look at MB CLA, VW CC all of which are coupe shaped with sedan hatch.

Classic car manufacturers are way behind on SW, this is important for the millennials buying a new car in the coming years. You will see anon, go test drive a Tesla and you will not want to go back to your Corolla ever again.

>>16615430
>being this retarded

Most bitches can't see the difference between a 320i and an M3, they only see the front badge.

Bitches will rather Netflix and chill in the Tesla than driving around with your loud import Civic.

>>16619115
Find a lawyer and convince him that you are worth a million, then ask around a few space related VCs they usually have a few for sale for series K prices

>>16619309
If you don't understand why SpaceX is the endgame that's the reason why you will stay poor.

>>16619944
okay genius i would love to hear how you are gonna make going into space profitable. NASA tried it and couldnt do it, but i guess tesla is full of way smarter people...

>>16619978
It already is profitable.
The falcon 9 business has a gross margin of over 70 percent at the current rate of reusability. There is also Starlink which brings worldwide internet into almost any corner of the earth as an additional revenue stream. Without giving away too much have a look around how much it costs for SpaceX to manufacture and launch the necessary satellites and what revenue is expected by the ISP business. Then you can figure out the valuation. This also excludes starship and any of the fancy Mars endeavours planned.

>>16615291
Kek Tesla’s are cool and have already won the favor of the youth. They look and feel like you are driving in a spaceship. By comparison EV’s developed by legacy car makers look like they are made to subconsciously turn you into a cuck.

>>16615430
>Buying a vehicle based on what w*men think
>Not attracting women by realizing your own self-actualization
NGMI

>>16619944
Do you actually own SpaceX shares?

>>16620069
>This also excludes starship and any of the fancy Mars endeavours planned
Yeah because both of those projects are going to lose massive amounts of money for a long time. All the other projects basically exist to fund those money sinks.

>>16615291
check out this turbo fag

>>16621915
cope

I own a Tesla and have gotten more wet pussies then before with my Mercedes CLS.

I’m buying more.

>>16622498
Which Tesla model do you own?

Tesla probably won't completely fail but the stock is crazy overpriced. They shipped like 3-400 000 cars this year, and yet their market cap is twice that of f.ex. Ford, who shipped 6 million cars in 2018, almost 20x as much. And Ford is proven in profitability, Tesla is not. Even if Tesla succeeds in their wildest dreams, that success is already priced in for some reason. So there is no profit to be had, only risk.

>>16622662
That is the thing. It seems Tesla is PRICED IN: THE STOCK

>>16621466
You can’t own spaceX shares it’s a private company

>>16619204
Democratic policies love subsidies. Especially for a “green” company that is fighting “global warming” lmfao

>>16622662
>their market cap is twice that of f.ex. Ford, who shipped 6 million cars
>"the market cap of the company that is the only player in a burgeoning market and is trailblazing its way to the future is twice that of a stagnant company selling last millenium's brand-name appeal before it begs to get bailed out again because it cannot make products to compete in a global market and japanese trash performs better at a lower price"

>>16623914
>"the market cap of the company that is the only player in a burgeoning market
Maybe in 2013, nowadays almost all major car manufacturers have electric models, and many of them are heavily banking on them.
>a stagnant company
Ford is just one example, there is not a single other car company with even close to the same market cap to revenue ratio as tesla.

>>16614190
they cook their books. once they get caught, the end will come quick.

>>16614190

Imagine being so retarded not to buy Tesla pre-2013

>>16625099
Not retarded, not just deggie gambler. Nobody knew tesla would be this successful, it could have easily failed and not delivered and there was no reason to believe they will deliver. Pure hype and gambling .Gamblers sometimes win

>>16625099
They had huge ass production problems and huge ass debt obligations that they managed to dance around by the skin of their teeth.

so what is official /biz/ consensus on this?

>>16627164
there isn't one, it's relatively unique as a stock pick in that people either seem to worship it religiously or hate it with a passion. I suppose you could say the same about Apple, but only the truly deluded think Apple will nosedive anytime soon (not saying I think Apple is great anymore, I don't). On the other hand you could make a strong case for Tesla imploding in the next few years. They are market leaders in battery and software tech, way ahead of GM and Volkswagen group, but they have a ton of other issues that other anons have touched on. I personally don't think it will succeed but wouldn't short it either.

>>16621466
>>16623864


You can and i do own private SpaceX shares. At the end you need a special purpose vehicle (SPV) in your name to hold them.

But then again this is what smart money does and the best things are out of reach for normies.

>>16618959
If you have access to free money, sure

>>16614342
The utility of their offerings.

>>16614190
People getting redpilled about electric vehicles when they see batteries exploding and AI driving the vehicles into walls.

Google the New mirai Toyota

Yw

>>16615390
This guy gets it.
Sage

>>16620138
This guy gets it

>>16614190
Pegnet is the Tesla of 2022, but I'm not sure if that's bullish enough to make me a millionaire.

Tesla is a cult stock. No thanks.

>>16614190
>Tell me why this is overpriced.
Because it's new tech, and something has to pay for tooling and building up the business.
>Tell me why it is a bubble.
It's not a bubble.
>Tell me why this is a bad long term hold.
I don't give stock advice.
>Tell me why Tesla will fail.
There are two things that will kill Tesla:
Musk doing something really fucking stupid
or
They fail to meet their production needs.

The first one is more likely. Electric cars are a thing, but a new thing. There needs to be some foundational discoveries in battery tech to move it forward, and more buildout of charging for the average person, and the price to come down, or reliable on-board generators so you only need a small charge to start the car moving.
BUT
It WILL get better. It might take a while, but they're the Apple of electric cars. The other companies are following. The electric Mustang is HUGE, that signals Musk won. They might have lean times, troubling times, but I think they'll survive. The price will come down, the tech will improve, and hopefully some big discoveries are made to move it forward even more (batteries need a discovery on the level of the transistor, we've pushed current tech as far as it can go.)

Make your own decisions. Research the company, like you would any company. That's what I do. What do I hold? Not telling. Do your own homework. I don't give stock advice.

>>16614314
>Why will they get fucked up in recession?
Because car sales overall drop in recessions, people can't afford new cars. Use your damned brain.

>>16627609
Would it be possible/worthwhile to do this for say $50k worth of shares?

>>16614356
Good and informative post. The solar panels, self driving semis, and much more will add to Tesla’s value soon on Thebes future.
Cars will only be a part of it.

>>16629427
asking this as well

>>16629427
>>16630471


Well, the most difficult part is to find someone who will sell it to you. If they will bother to do it for 50k then yes of course even though the creation of an SPV also comes with attached costs. It will be substantially easier to get better terms the more money you can put on the table. I bought with a few friends and thanks to selling BTC at 12k we bought 2k shares at 220$ each from a fund who invested in them a few year's back and wanted to offload some.

Even though would generally recommend not to focus too much on SpaceX, there is a whole new industry starting up for utility services in Space apart from launch services alone.

>>16630894
Thanks for the info. Are there any other space companies you rate highly and are they all private equity?

>>16630986

There are a lot of them out there mostly in stealth mode. Some of the more interesting ones are Relativity (3D printing medium class size Rockets), Momentus Space (Satellite propulsion) and TransAstra (Asteroid/Lunar mining). Rockets are the most impressive things but I believe the next gold rush is going to be the infrastructure around it in space.

>>16631035
Thanks man. Do you need to hang around silicon valley to keep up with this stuff or can you do it from the internet?

I personally believe this stock is worth about 600 dollers a share, but that's over the next decade.