/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>16352233
>Who in their right mind would support central banking?
Sadly everyone supports it. No one is in their right mind in the 'society'. The crazies are some of them most sane ironically

>>16352233
The wealthy that make a shitton off of it

>>16352233
Didn’t they realize like back in the 80’s how bad this could get? They must have seen it coming after watching the Debt system for years. Everything is probably accounted for. Like it’s not gonna be complete chaos, and they probably have an idea of the next system. It’s probably blockchain based lol

>>16352350
The whole point is chaos. They want everyone to go broke af when it collapses so you owe all your commodities to mr shekelburg. This is all part of the wealth transfer.

>>16352233
>linear chart

It always looks like a bubble brainlet

>>16352233
>This isn't sustainable.
why?

>>16352233
they will print more dollaros

>>16352504
central banks create economic bubbles

>>16352880
apparently, decentralized money creates economic bubbles too.
besides, bubbles existing doesn't mean that the growth is not sustainable. we can drop 50% and still be above the 2008 peak.

>>16352963
>decentralized money creates economic bubbles too.
no it doesnt
the gilded age was actually quite stable outside of some government intervention
https://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Panics

>>16352880
lol wut? Considering there have been many recessions with out central banks, you're wrong.

>>16352997
those were due to government intervention

https://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Panics

>>16352233
>This isn't sustainable.
Why not?

>>16352880
Like >>16352963 implied, bubbles are generally the result of private decisions... if a bunch of people want to bet the price of X commodity is going to rise 1000% they will but they can turn out to be wrong. A "bubble" is just a wrong decision in retrospect.

>>16352977
>the gilded age was actually quite stable
>mises.org

>>16352997
The idea is a central bank is the only institution that could inject the liquidity and keep the pumping going on. It's totally wrong since anyone can issue private debt instruments to fuel any speculative mania perfectly easily. Although the hardcore Austrotards used to claim anything not "backed" by gold is really "illegal" and "fraud".

>>16353014
How about reading more than Rothbards revisionist account of history?

>>16353053
>>the gilded age was actually quite stable
>>mises.org
it was, read the links

>How about reading more than Rothbards revisionist account of history?
It was more than rothbard
also they did real research on this topic

>>16353014
Wrong. There have been multiple recessions created from the free market. Look at the tulip bubble.

>>16353162
yikes
https://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Tulipmania

>>16353147
Saying "the gilded age was actually quite stable" is insanely revisionist. Literally read anything from that time period, everyone was whining, business was saying they were having their profits squeezed and it was the most violent era of labour unrest in American history.

>>16353178
The grand bulk of gold discovered in the Americas actually just past through Europe to end up in Asia, from Austrotard theory you'd expect the inflationary results to express itself more dramatically in Asia than in Europe in the 16th century but that's not what happened. What was the difference between Europe and Asia? Private incentive.

>>16352963
no it doesn't. the reason why the bitcoin bubble was solely because you could buy it with (inflated) FIAT.

>>16352246
We unironically live in a golden age of mass hysteria and delusion. The clownworld meme resonates for a reason.

>>16352997
yeah, but recession and a "bubble pop" neither the same thing nor even remotely comparable in their causes

>>16352233
Kill yourself you fucking brainlet.

>>16353259
>Saying "the gilded age was actually quite stable" is insanely revisionist.
and true
It was also the period where living standards rose the most for the working class

>>16353327
how does this disprove my chart?

>>16353347
Your chart is disingenuous because you failed middle school math.

>>16353278
The demand wouldn't be there otherwise? Without government provided fiat I'm pretty sure you'd see people demand cheap private electronic currency even more not less.

>>16353336
Why did you choose a graph of farm output? That wasn't a good era for farmers.

https://www.austincc.edu/lpatrick/his1302/agrarian.html

Also it comes down to how you want to quantify increased "living standards". You could claim boomers saw the biggest gains in living standards for the working class of any other American generation. Someone born in 1945 died much richer in monetary and other terms than some in the 1870s.

>>16353053
Fuck off, CB shill

>>16353389
>Why did you choose a graph of farm output? That wasn't a good era for farmers.
its not just farm output

>>16353389
also

>>16353278
altcoins also experienced massive bubbles. the sat value of the entire alt market literally halved over the past two years.

>>16352233
the people who it allows to steal your money silently

>>16353327
that's not any better lol

NOOO COMPANIES CANT JUST MAKE MORE MONEY EACH YEAR
MOMMY MY ROCKS ARE GETTING OUTPERFORMED

>>16352350
>>16352411
its a mix of both these posts, controlled chaos and (real) wealth transfer. Most humans in the future will live in shitty apartments in overcrowded cities while the elites enjoy a vast amount of 'wildlife protected' territory

>>16352233
New paradigm.

>>16353327
you don't understand how logarithmic charts distort your view

good luck with your models, hope you work at modern LTCM

>>16352963
too bad we're going down 80%

>>16354762
why?

>>16354820
Idiot

>>16354844

>>16352425
Smart post. You can also see the surge in the 90s as the internet steadily increased in importance- the increase in market value Is the result of technological advancement creating new industries and increasing efficiency of existing industries.

No shit we're more productive per capita than in 45. Biz is the dumbest board, I swear to fuck.

>>16356082
I try to give them the benefit of the doubt and presume their hateboner for banks and USD is borne out of rabid ideological blindness and not pure stupidity

>>16354653
>>16356167
>>16356082
No one has elaborated on why this is sustainable as OP stated. Many insults but the point has not been refuted.

>>16356345
I too enjoy the thought of my CuckBux issued by CuckBank™ becoming entirely worthless in the event of the bank’s insolvency and all the needless chaos and lack of competitiveness that would engender in the context of an international market, instead of the sustained prosperity and relative security historically provided by a central bank

>>16352233
>who in their right mind would support getting rich
get a load of this retard

>>16356345
technological progress > increased productivity > increased profit > increased market cap
it's not that hard.

>>16356435
This seems like a gross oversimplification. And, no offense, but honestly I don't believe this adequately explains why this is sustainable to infinity. Most economists disagree with you, I might add.

>>16356345
THIS IS SUSTAINABLE BECAUSE-
-there is no alternative, all current other currencies looking to displace USD have much worse liquidity/market depth/ capital controls which are requirements for capital flows
-the US explicitly uses the capital/market leverage on the rest of the world to outspend militarily. the next true nation v nation war- no holds barred would end the planet, so the USD market system is not being overthrown mechanically (1st point) or by extreme force
-the infinite up chart is a reflection of total liquidity in the system as all base money created has interest attached, ie the total M1/2/3 can never go down, so as a mathematical identity the total notional "value" of all assets will go up over time (while fluctuating between asset classes in the short term)

>im expecting 0 responses. thank you all for your time
also
>FUCK NIGGERS AND FUCK JANNIES

>>16356854
based crabman

>>16356854
>the infinite up chart is a reflection of total liquidity in the system as all base money created has interest attached, ie the total M1/2/3 can never go down, so as a mathematical identity the total notional "value" of all assets will go up over time (while fluctuating between asset classes in the short term)

Are you saying that so long as the banks keep printing massive amounts of paper money, that it will in proportion continue to go up infinitely?

>>16356854
So is crypto going to be a reserve asset or not, just give it me

>>16357451
no. but it will have other uses

>>16353327
you just stretched it out sideways so it looks less steep?

>>16357451
yes it will
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkNhSPxFsnY

>>16357451
Did u read point #2
(Or any of the post)
?

>>16357521

>>16356376
>>16356082
>>16356854
>>16357570

Please elaborate more.

>>16357816
what area do you need

>>16357831

>>16357304

>>16358078
don't think of it as the fed hyper 'printing' in the Venezuela sense, just the slow grinding fact that any new credit from the fed/treasury/primary dealer complex has a rate attached to it- fed funds/ioer, which ultimately needs to be rolled with new debt to service the previous note.
public debt(debit) = private credit

>>16353327
You stretched it out sideways. Thats literally 48x in value from 1966. You think it's gonna 48x in value again by 2072.

>>16353327
Also if you look closely the values on one axis are jumping by different numbers. Who are you trying to decieve? Who is this chart intended to decieve anyways, retail investors?

>>16358147
So new debt must be collateralized before additional debt can be acquired?

>>16352246

Most people just don't understand it. It's quite surprising how many adults don't understand how their debit and credit cards work let alone how something as complex as debt-based central bank fiat currency issuance functions and the long term ramifications of a global race to the bottom in fiat.

>>16358210
Yeah that’s what you’d call logarithmic

>>16358274
again at the fed level i think its more helpful to use "debit" instead of 'debt'
the bank in monopoly has a 'debit' on its liabilities side when 'crediting' the player, but they can do that forever

Fiat never lasts

>>16358169
>>16358210

>>16353162
The tulip bubble never happened, it's a myth for brainlets

>>16352963
Fun fact, the 2017 btc bubble was caused by central banks , the fact that we grew up in btc price this year when central banks stabilized the monetary base again shows inflation is probably higher than they say in most areas.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/BOGMBASE

>>16357451
No, banks stacking gold. The world dont give a fuck about internet beans.

>>16359928
>Fun fact, the 2017 btc bubble was caused by central banks
true

>>16361338
>>>16359928
>>Fun fact, the 2017 btc bubble was caused by central banks
>true
https://dex.wavesplatform.com/dex?assetId2=FhsFXnMnZYk2nFQGfcd9rCmDaKYYxqhmDrExUTtDYAtC&assetId1=WAVES
king of bubbles, pops for only a minute

>>16359496
You are stupid.

>>16352233

What you're seeing here is the inflation. Only, instead of goods and services it has hit the stock market. Expect similar graph for goods and services when this thing implodes.

>>16352233
>he believed the WHOLE lie

You might want to zoom out on that chart.

https://news.bitcoin.com/survey-58-of-german-banks-charge-negative-interest-rates/

This is why you buy BTC
https://dex.wavesplatform.com/dex?assetId2=FhsFXnMnZYk2nFQGfcd9rCmDaKYYxqhmDrExUTtDYAtC&assetId1=WAVES

>>16362399
No, you buy bitcoin because of the bail-ins (ie confiscation of cash deposits) that were written into law because of the last crisis

>>16358210
Holy fuck. Please never post again. I'm not kidding, you risk severely fucking up someone's life with your stupidity.
ITS A LOGARITHMIC SCALE.

Money is make believe. Prepare to get chipped.

>>16352233
Stocks will keep going up because bonds are basically worthless thanks to zero interest rates

>>16361908
>t, brainlet

>>16358210
this is your average BIZ poster, eh?

>>16356854
>>16358147
>>16358274
>>16358837

i still dont fucking get this. can someone break this down further?

>>16352246
>>16353289
WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY AMIRITE GUYS