/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>16312472
How can I buy silver in Europe without getting kike'd with taxes

If anyone has noticed they are starting to make you pay taxes in us States now for purchasing precious metals. It's a slow rollout but they know what's coming. Load now before it's too late

Bro, Silver is not going anywhere....ever
Did you see what they did to the Hunt bros.?
Do you know what paper derivatives are?
Do you know the LBMA is trading 10-1 the actual physical ounce? This will not stop ever..
like actual ever...never...ever. Im sorry but its true Silver Chad please don't rekt yourself

It's Bitcoin or nothing for me.

Really makes you think

>>16312512
Are they really charging more than before? Proof?

>>16312512
Not in my based state

https://legislature.idaho.gov/statutesrules/idstat/Title63/T63CH36/SECT63-3622V/

>>16312512
Many states have a $1000+ purchase exemption. Buy in bulk. Besides, it's cheaper when you buy a lot at a time.
>>16312671
Well idaho is very pro silver because their industry depends so much on it. Idaho has a very long history of forcing the federal government to buy and sell silver. I think USA started selling silver eagles due to Idaho's representatives crying about it.

>>16312671
I said slow rollout. All states will eventually be charging tax for buying PMs.

>>16312724
The real kicker is the potential tax you pay while selling your metals. That is unavoidable for the most part.

>>16312671
Also a nice comfy metal seller is right here in Boise Idaho.
Money Metals
Reasonable prices and no sales taxes.

>>16312472
>>$2 quadrillion USD FIAT in world broad money supply (m3), stock markets, private and public debt, real estate, derivatives
so what? what is the meaning of this?

>>16312923
we're all fucked

So is gold worth considering?

>>16312923
Every single human being in planet earth is on the hook for $265,000 usd.

>>16312472
>>$2 quadrillion USD FIAT in world broad money supply (m3), stock markets, private and public debt, real estate, derivatives
>>to account for all of that Gold needs to be $364,000 USD per ounce
gold is m1 money, it doesnt need to be used to cover m3 money. There is only 23 Trillion dollars of m1 money, if gold increased in value to $20k an ounce it could be used to back m1 money

>>16312984
in the past 100 years most PM investors have only invested in gold because gold is easier to identify by regular people, its easier to sell and trade than silver, so silver has been mostly ignored

>>16313058
>Every single human being in planet earth is on the hook for $265,000 usd.
Europajeet here.
I don't understand what you wanna say.
I have decided to buy Link when I red this:
derivate market quadrillion --and people gotta hold the coin to get reward----- bitcoin 2.0.
Sufficient logic proof that made Link a no brainer for me at that time.

Now why should I put Link gains in silver.
You better provide a same as Link valid reason if you want that I buy a metal

>>16313255
>I don't understand what you wanna say
It would appear as though you need to learn English fren

>>16313286
èlease could you explain why I should put money into a metal and not in CRISPR which will be the next revolution before normies would get into it?

>>16313383
That’s not what you asked. If you can find a reputable company that has patents/IP and working tech, I’d certainly put some money there. That said, I have a diversified portfolio: I certainly wouldn’t advocate going all in on any single investment or asset class. DYOR

>>16313099
If I have over 150oz of silver since starting stacking this year should I trade in some silver for an ounce of gold? Should I be patient and wait for the ratio to narrow down?

>>16313411
This. Half the reason I invest in PMs is just to diversify my assets.

>>16313414
an ounce of gold would be half your silver, I wouldnt do that, maybe buy a little bit of gold jewelry just to have something easy to trade with

>>16313445
Ditto. I also like that I can buy it anonymously with cash and hold assets outside the system with virtually zero risk. It’s an ideal hedge as far as I’m concerned.

>>16313480
What percentage of my stack would you recommend I have in gold?

>>16313483
Hell yes. Half the joy of PMs is the utter reality of it. I bet real estate investors get a similar feeling.

>>16313411
>That’s not what you asked. If you can find a reputable company that has patents/IP and working tech, I’d certainly put some money there. That said, I have a diversified portfolio: I certainly wouldn’t advocate going all in on any single investment or asset class. DYOR
I have it. CRSPR hat also made a x2 in a short time frame while you cuc* are here with your metal in hands
>>16313445
>This. Half the reason I invest in PMs is just to diversify my assets.
Diversifying too much lowers significanty gains

>>16313507
1/4 ounce

>>16313255
>europajeet
So a gyspy?

>>16312472

checking in, picked this up in Bayreuth on the weekend.

>>16312722

bulk is good. but also good to have smaller pieces due to liquidity - if you have 1kg blocks of silver they aren't going to be easy to move if silver goes up to say $200 per ounce. Coins area also easier with insurance/distributed storage

>>16312811
not if you sell your metals in a zero CGT environment such as through an offshore company

>>16313099

also because governments moved to gold standards which created gold convertability, before they depegged from gold. No currency has been pegged to silver since the 19th century at least, so the psychological link is gone

>>16313414
trade in your FIAT for gold

>>16313887
"Bulk" as in buying lots of coins at a time. Not buying fuckhueg bars.

>>16313924
based and bulkpilled, nice work sir

Ok boomer

gold and silver niggers

still the most delusional idiots ever

see you clowns in 10 years when your boomers rocks are only worth 10% more than today and you are still peddling your nonsense conspiracy theories

>>16313067
Gold doesn't even need to be used to cover m1 money. Indeed I don't think any world leaders would ever be so idiotic as to waste their resources acquiring enough gold to cover their money.

>>16312472
Every time I see a silver thread I start missing the gravelcoin posts.

December is the (official) beginning of the crisis, that's my bet. They're blatant about how extensively they're propping up the market now. I'm fucking depressed about it but hell at least I'll have money.

>>16315655
It's November 2029

Silver is still worth $18

>>16313255
>europajeet

wtf am I reading

>>16312493
Haven't found a way yet, it's pretty bad. Buying gold seems to be what you have to do to work around this, just pile up enough cash then buy gold.

>>16315142
You have to think of it as an insurance, not an investment. Gold will always beat the inflation at least. Of course investing in stonks or almost any other asset has a bigger chance of medium-term gains, but it also comes at a risk. Gold is a safe haven for wealth. If you buy it, forget about it for years/the rest of your life.

>>16314940
thanks hehe *scratches head*

Does /biz/ like silver coins?

Thoughts on .500 scrap silver? Someone I know recently offered me 1 kilo of .500 silver florins (Very old coins) for a measly £190
Worth?

So... should I buy silver or not?

>to account for all of that Gold needs to be $364,000 USD per ounce
there's no economic reason this has to occur. justify what mechanism would cause the price of gold to match the money supply.

Feels good living in Norgay where there is no VAT on imported precious metal coins as long as they have a face value.

Are silver mining stocks / ETFs a good option? Which ones?

>>16318384
Buy physical metal. Or don’t, idgaf

>>16318090
What coins and where do you buy from?

t. another Norgayan

>>16318056
>dollar will be world currency forever
>t.permabull

>>16313411
>That said, I have a diversified portfolio: I certainly wouldn’t advocate going all in on any single investment or asset class.

If you understand the significance of Link, there's literally no reason to touch any other crypto before Link skyrockets.

>>16318464
aurinum. they remove vat for norgayians.

>>16318596
you didn't answer the question, what economic mechanism would cause the price of gold to rise to match the money supply? the currency in question is irrelevant.

>>16319215
at some point I think there will be a gold backed currency that will arise, it might be one country backing their currency, it might be an international currency, its not a matter of all gold being used for all currency

>>16319480
>at some point I think there will be a gold backed currency that will arise
t.retarded

>>16313887
is that coin legal to buy and sell?

>>16312493
https://www.celticgold.eu/en/
vat free
i've bought 500oz from them. they're legit

>>16321252
just noticed, they accept crypto as well

>>16312512
Liberty Coin and DBS Coins are still tax free regardless of what state you live in.

>>16312557
Do you think Russia and China will let themselves be shafted like the Hunt brothers?

Or any of the increasing number of countries which is sick of the (((US establishment)))?

>>16312493
>>16315763

Euros can still buy via Estonia. No VAT there. Do some research.

>>16316483
yes

>>16322322

>>16318090
>>16318464
What's gay about Norway? Seems somewhat based to me. But then you aren't Canadians so I still feel bad for you.

>>16322322
Based and Roman Pilled

>>16320583
They are legal in Germany so I don't see them being illegal anywhere else, maybe Israel? Not very expensive either, although if you're not into collecting coins you're better off buying bullion coins or bars since old silver coins can cost way more than the actual silver value.

>>16322322
>>16322332
Very nice. Don't have any slabbed coin myself, most are not very expensive. Top one so far is a Swedish 2 mark from 1692 for around $80, then also one from Gotland year 1420-1450 for roughly the same price. Only been collecting since last year so I thought I'd get some cheaper coins first and not rush into buying expensive coins.

I'm ready.

>>16312472
None of that makes any sense I don’t think you understand how modern currency works

>>16322757
>>16322332
>>16322322

Got this collection from gramps before dying, around 500 coins mostly from WWI a& II. Around 100 are silver, mostly US, German and Italian ones. It was tons of fun to classify them properly since they were just thrown together in a box. Thanks gramps

>>16323097
>how modern currency works
if it worked we wouldn't be having this conversation

My goal is to buy 100 ounces of silver eagles a year until I've filled my monster box another three. Even if silver enters a massive bull run, I would still buy due to dollar cost averaging. Same with my portfolio.

>>16323183
Damm, that's quite a collection. At least we are fortunate enough to have internet to our help. Makes it easier to find information and buying coins. People maybe spent years hunting down a certain coin and now it's just a few clicks away lol

>>16315685
And the hourly wage is 10c and a country mansion with land costs $1000. The reset was harsh...

>>16315685
If the average holds it will be more like $25/oz.

>>16323090
privately minted "limited" medals? I'm sorry, but even amerifats who stack christmas and hanuka bars from 1984 has better taste in silver than you.

>>16323716
Gonna have to agree, when it comes to silver stick with the common coins, rounds, and bars. Unless your getting a huge deal under spot. But remember that any shop is gonna pay jack for junk silver.

Behold my baby stack of silver and my 1/4oz gold eagle

>>16321252
>>16322296
Thank you boyos will check it if I get fucked by the tax agency I will sue you

>>16323280
What makes you think it doesn't work, Anon?

>>16321252
You can even buy with Chainlink here top kek. Sorry Sergey, unrisking some bags to get on the silver train

>>16323716
you have bad taste even if you live in Norway
>>16323738
don't tell me what to buy
I have plenty of eagles, junk and ten ounce bars
these are for my post-collapse collection
>>16323842
Have you seen America lately?
Take a good look, it's fucking embarrassing and it's a direct result of the fiat dollar.

>>16320583

yeah. but if you show the swastika in a "public space" you get fined instantly 300 EUR. That goes for the shop - or for me.

They are crackign down on nazi stuff really hard now though.

>>16315655

its going to take a lot longer than december mate. the lie only stops when the slaves stop believing in it

>>16323796
based
i have that viking with the flail, I still need to get the one with the ax

>>16324133
S O U R C E

>>16322757

you're dead right. Actually though reichsmarks trade abotu the value of their silver. Its quite funny, 5 RM is 12.5 grams of silver, or ~6 euros. He charged me 7

I know im an edgy 4chan (Australian) cunt, but one of the funniest things possible is going into cafes in germany with a straight face and trying to buy beers or coffee with reichsmarks

>>16324362
>trying to buy beers or coffee with reichsmarks
What do they do? If they accepted it would you actually pay with it though lol?

>>16324362
Kek

>>16323716
100% this

>>16324427

most of the germans just looked angry and seethed, one old guy looked very happy

the shitskins were terrified. it helps that i'm a 6'3 white. pretty funny seeing some turk-mutt suddenly realise that behind all the public appearances a lot of people actually passionately hate them

>>16324350
>S O U R C E
for what?

>>16324481
>t. Hanukkah bar collector

>>16324730

reischmarks are the ultimate hannukah bars

>>16324307
>the lie only stops when the slaves stop believing in it
The fall of our monetary system is far from the first stage of the collapse, it starts with a "normal" crash like '08, which will be triggered very soon. The only question left is which straw will break the camels back. *cough*deutsche bank*cough* Even normalfags should be admitting the markets can't grow much longer, as the average bull run lasts 9 years, and fundamentals are shit.

>>16325213


I agree with you that the system is fucked.

However, let me bring forward two points:

"the average bull run 7 to 9 years" is a 20th century nonsense. The main purpose of the reserve banking system is to control the "yield" curve on debt.

Before the 20th century, it was quite common to have bull or bear markets that lasted for 30+ years in a row. You might spend your entire working life in a bull run. The british east india company averaged 20% CAGR for 75 years in a row at one point - net of inflation.

>this means that as the central banks print too much money and lose control of debt markets, bull markets could very easily run for a decade or longer... leading up to the immense crash you speak of

secondly, inflation will make the stock marekt go higher. Because they have printed so much money, just as items like bread and meat have a higher face value - so do stocks. This means we could have an epic recession where the middle class suffer, but the stock market will appear to boom into the stratosphere.

>in this sense you will be 100% correct in your analysis - the true economic value of the market will be less than it is today
>but the USD fiat price of the market will be way higher, which is crucial to the lie continuing

>>16325253
>Before the 20th century, it was quite common to have bull or bear markets that lasted for 30+ years in a row.
They were hardly bull and bear markets as we know them today, central bank policy creates these massive swings we're now told are normal. Which is why I referenced 20th century nonsense.
>This means we could have an epic recession where the middle class suffer, but the stock market will appear to boom into the stratosphere.
That's already happened over the last decade. The amount of money required to reinflate this bubble again is almost incomprehensible. Hundreds of trillions of dollars handed out to banks, governments, everyone. The attempt must end in disaster.

>>16312472
>>$2 quadrillion USD FIAT in world broad money supply (m3), stock markets, private and public debt, real estate, derivatives
What has this to do with silver?

>tfw only 100 oz

im not gunna make it. go on without me bros

>>16325042
Reichsmarks are pretty based, I've been thinking about getting some soon.
They'd go nicely with my pre-bolshevik kopeks.

>>16325741
Just keep stackin, you'll make it.
100 oz is way more than what the vast majority of people have.
The masses will be scrounging for nickels and pre-82 pennies just so they can buy a little food while us stackers will be taking their wives and daughters as breeding slaves and comfort women.

>>16312984
>So is gold worth considering?
Sure but at this time gold is 80X more expensive than silver even though there is only 20X more silver in the earth's crust. Not to mention silver is used industrially while gold is mostly stored as investment.

>>16313507
The GSR speaks for itself. How many times has it been above 80? These are historic times for PM investors. Honestly, I'd look to platinum before gold if you want something other than silver.

>>16324133
>Have you seen America lately?
Only on TV.

>Take a good look, it's fucking embarrassing
From my limited viewpoint it seems to be going pretty well despite Trump's tariffs.

>and it's a direct result of the fiat dollar.
It would be orders of magnitude worse without the fiat dollar, Anon!

>>16312472 (OP)
>>$2 quadrillion USD FIAT in world broad money supply (m3), stock markets, private and public debt, real estate, derivatives
What has this to do with silver?

>>16326255
The more debt in the system the more unstable it is and the bigger the crash. Silver is a safe haven asset, though perhaps less than Gold but a safe haven none the less. With such massive amounts of debt in the system there will eventually be a crisis, it's inevitable, there will be a rush to safe havens.

>>16326215
>It would be orders of magnitude worse without the fiat dollar, Anon!
Oh yeah I'm sure America being a coast to coast Walmart is much better than the 1950's paradise where a man with any job could raise a family and not have his wife work.
Fuck off.

>>16326332
>The more debt in the system the more unstable it is and the bigger the crash
sorry maybe I am illiterate. But why should it crash? There is a lot of money in the sistem well..where i the problem?>>16326332
>Silver is a safe haven asset, though perhaps less than Gold but a safe haven none the less
In storic recession gold and silver didn't go up

>>16326573
because fiat currencies always collapse the only reason the dollar hasn't yet is because it's the world reserve currency and we've killed a lot of people to enforce that status

>>16325213
>as the average bull run lasts 9 years, and fundamentals are shit.
>fundamentals are shit
well why? In detail why fundamentals of this economy will force fags to buy silver?
Where in the world some random fag who has his app for trading on his apple smartphone (Apple 1 trillion market cap) trading his stocs as usually (including some silver ETF) should all of sudden turn off his phone and go into a pawn shop to buy your phisical silver.
Where in the world a scenario like this would be plausible?
Considering lso that silver goes down along all economy (see 08)

>>16326573
The endless pursuit of more debt inherently causes a decline in credit standards. These types of situations like this become more common: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-09-06/subprime-auto-lender-checked-income-on-just-3-of-loans-in-bond

Artificially low interest rates allow debtors to take on more debt than they would normally be able to sustain. In the end the normal business cycle occurs, people lose their jobs and can no longer afford to pay their debt and eventually there is a crisis (more accurately it's a correction). It's all perfectly natural and actually healthy if mal-investment and creditor's with substandard requirements are punished. This natural correction was not allowed to take place, instead central banks have acted together since 08/09 to re-inflate the debt bubbles that were popping. This time the crisis is even larger.

>In storic recession gold and silver didn't go up
Gold and silver go up during a debt crisis, which can turn into a loss of trust. Thus one would seek a safe haven.

>>16326642
>always collapse the only reason the dollar hasn't yet is
well dollar hasn't yet so we are safe for our life time
no need for silver
>>16326658
>instead central banks have acted together since 08/09 to re-inflate the debt bubbles that were popping
'08 crisis was caused by bank by making risking investment borrowing money even to people who were not able to pay back
How is this correlated with the today crisis?

>>16326651
>well why? In detail why fundamentals of this economy will force fags to buy silver?

The economy has been mediocre since 08/09. Even if the numbers the government puts out are accurate they've been lackluster. Corporate profits have stagnated for the last 5 years. Debt has skyrocketed. Government spending has skyrocketed. The Fed cut interest rates and started buying bonds among other toxic assets saying that it was an extraordinary case and that it would fix our problems. In the end the economy never recovered and the Fed was unable to normalize interest rates. The Fed failed, QE failed. Now the Fed is cutting interest rates again and buying bonds at a faster rate than when it was publicly doing QE. Clearly something is wrong, the economy is not healthy and what the Fed is doing isn't working. The Fed has nothing else it can do. Ultimately the situation will deteriorate and the Fed will be up a creek without a paddle. There will be a correction in the debt market which will cause people to flee to a safe haven.

Why don't you tell me what fundamentals I'm missing?

>>16326691
The crisis caused a deleveraging of debt. There was too much debt because interest rates were held artificially low. Just like today, interest rates have been held artificially low which cause an excess amount of debt.

>>16326691
>well dollar hasn't yet so we are safe for our life time
>no need for silver
holy fuck you're dumb

>been buying 1 oz silver bars every time I get spare cash or a gift card from work
>finally bought a Maple Leaf just for shits and giggles last week
>arrived today
>all dat shine and luster, felt like scrooge Mcfuckingduck while holding it

That Maple Leaf turned on my stacking addiction. Finna buy a 5-gram gold bar and a Silver Eagle when I get paid tomorrow. The feeling of holding it in your hands is weird, but I love it. It also feels good to have physical assets locked in a safe under my bed in to compliment my assets in the (((banks))) and stock market.

>>16326805
Any particular mint you like your bars to be from or just whatever's cheapest?

>>16326837
I've been getting JM Bullion minted ones, but my first two silver bars were from a pawn shop, and I think one was a Buffalo bar and the other was from like Kentucky or something. I generally do whatever is cheapest though.

>>16326741
>holy fuck you're dumb
proof dollar will lose value?
You have no proof. You have only your /pol/ conspirancy theory

>>16326691
Because since they were bailed out by tax payer dollars last time, they've doubled down.
Now many of them can't meet reserve requirements and require the fed to "loan" (print) them more and more currency to stay solvent.
People overextend themselves accruing debt to maintain the lifestyle they want, banks overextend themselves issuing loans to people who can't service them for short-term gains, and the fed/central banks create currency out of thin air to loan to the banks so they won't fail so the people can accrue more debt and not go bankrupt.
Break out the popcorn, we got some exciting times ahead that was over 100 years in the making.

>>16327042
>You have only your /pol/ conspirancy theory
The dollar has done nothing but lose value since 1913
This has nothing to do with your buzzwords

>>16327042
>proof dollar will lose value?
>You have no proof.

The cost of college tuition and the consumer price index is proof that the dollars has lost value. Ask your parents what the minimum wage was when they first started working and there is your proof. I'm gonna assume that you weren't disputing the existence of inflation and instead were talking about the unlikely of the USD collapsing.

To that end, I'll tell you that on any given day it is certainly but it is still possible. In the wake of the 2008 recession, the US considered defaulting entirely on its debt and in response the government considered debasing our currency to pay it off.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kotlikoff/2013/01/19/the-treasury-has-already-minted-two-trillion-dollar-coins/#382400866994

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trillion-dollar-coin.asp

We have money because the government allows us to have it. If you want to preserve the value of your labor then buy PM because the gubmint can destroy fiat at any time. It's better to prepare for the collapse twenty years too early rather than a minute too late.

>>16327119
I'll tell you that on any given day it is certainly *unlikely but it is still possible

>>16327042
recommended reading:
https://mises.org/library/what-has-government-done-our-money

Immagine buying a metal in a world where CRISPR 's gonna be create another speculative bubble similar to cryptocurrencies...lol
You must be retard to park your money in a metal

>>16326805
>posting about your pm stash location on an (((anonymous))) bulgarian gymnastics forum

ngmi

>It's better to prepare for the collapse twenty years too early rather than a minute too late.

this

>>16327180
Anyone who takes mises.org seriously is a total idiot. The Austrian School of economics is based on conjectures that don't stand up to even the most basic reality check.

>>16322296
that's nice and all, but I'm not paying with card for pms to get it delivered to my home. That's publicly admitting twice that you own pms and where you probably store them. I'd much rather pay premium with cash than doing that.

It's that or going to estonia for the weekend.

>>16327341
Wanna give me a quick rundown?

>>16327119
I'll tell you that it's impossible.
I don't believe the US was stupid enough to consider defaulting on its debt. There was no need to do so - the country's credit limit would be infinite if the imbeciles in Congress hadn't imposed a debt ceiling.

The trillion dollar coin idea was just a fudge to get around the debt ceiling - there'd be virtually no inflationary impact as it would not have made much difference to the amount of money actually in the economy; it would just have made the US look richer on paper.

>>16326712
The economy is not healthy because too little money is going into it.

>>16327358
could you give me an example?

>>16327485
The Fed is the central planner of the economy. They act as the distributor of capital. With their current monetary policy they are directing capital to flow into the stock market. The money isn't flowing around buying goods and services creating jobs, it's just sitting in the stock market making the top 10% of the population who own 85% of the stock market rich.

>>16320543
based and scarcity pilled. thx for the laughs Putin but it’s Nuke time

>>16312472
Silver has failed in almost any recession

http://www.munknee.com/how-does-silver-perform-during-and-after-a-recession-youll-be-very-surprised/

>>16327376
>Wanna give me a quick rundown?
I ma doing my own research. Sgmo Armrn and Editas and CRSPR they are the biggest players but this is not a financial advice.
I wouldn't place in silver more than 5-10% of net.... it's a metal bro...simply a metal.

>>16327376
I would put 10% silver --10% gold--10% btc the rest in cash ready to buy the dip in the stocs marcet
Anyway be carful cause biotech is more dangerous than crypto. Be carful you may lose all your money
and crispr it's a 15 years long hold

>>16327608
How about in a debt crisis

>>16327747
Buy Copper apparently lol
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2351054

But generally speaking, yeah, you're right, both gold, silver and other precious metals serve as a good hedge, the question is - Are we heading to a debt crisis?

>>16327505
>The Fed is the central planner of the economy.
Hardly - their intervention far more reactive than proactive.
>They act as the distributor of capital.
They act as A distributor of capital, but far more capital is distributed through the commercial banks.

>With their current monetary policy they are directing capital to flow into the stock market. The money isn't flowing around buying goods and services creating jobs, it's just sitting in the stock market making the top 10% of the population who own 85% of the stock market rich.
I agree. The government's neglecting its own role in getting money into the economy, so the central bank is trying to pick up the slack. And it's not very effective at doing so.

>>16327502
They say economics is about psychology, but then they ignore all psychological factors that don't fit their predetermined conclusions.
They claim markets are always better than central planning, but then they advocate a centrally planned currency value.
They claim inflation is an increase in the money supply rather than an increase in prices... until you ask them why inflation is bad, in which case they suddenly switch to the conventional definition.

>>16327879
>Are we heading to a debt crisis?

Let’s see... what are the effects of keeping interest rates artificially low? It lowers borrowing costs so you get an increase in debt. We’ve had historically low interest rates for a decade now. In Europe they have negative rates! It’s insanity. Think about it, there are corporations that issue junk rates bonds paying negative interest rates! There are record amounts of debt, because of interest rate manipulation. There will eventually be a correction.

>>16327608
I don't buy the argument. 100 years is way too short a time to classify Silver as a risky hedge. That's roughly how long the Creature has had it's tentacles wrapped around the global financial system. Author completely ignores how paper Silver manipulates the price of the physical. When paper is forced to account in an irrational, panic-stricken rush, physical's demand will upshoot. At that point, tracking the price in dollars is pointless. The industrial demand is going to persist for the forseeable future, regardless of whatever fiat paradigm we enter into. She also uses the textbook definition of deflation while avoiding an explanation of how runaway globalization has gutted post-industrial economies to the point where there won't BE enough goods and services to offer in a true crash until local markets get back on their feet.

So, still not convinced. I'll have some fiat on standby because there will indeed be a period of time to make a killing on sharply discounted asset purchases,but I see no reason to not stack altogether. Hedge as sensibly as you can, and be aware of when the physical market swings into irrational territory.

>>16328160
>Let’s see... what are the effects of keeping interest rates artificially low?
Your use of the word "artificially" implies you believe there's a natural rate of interest. What do you think that is, and why?

>It lowers borrowing costs so you get an increase in debt.
That's certainly the aim. If debt increases too fast you get inflation; too slow and you get economic stagnation. Right now it's increasing too slow.

>We’ve had historically low interest rates for a decade now. In Europe they have negative rates! It’s insanity. Think about it, there are corporations that issue junk rates bonds paying negative interest rates!
Name one?
ITYF it they're paying negative interest rates they're nothing like junk!

>There are record amounts of debt, because of interest rate manipulation.
That's good; it means businesses are investing in the future!

>There will eventually be a correction.
And either the government or the Fed will have to correct the effects of that correction. Failure is not a good outcome even if that's where the market leads.

>>16323090
Cringe.

Far and away the dumbest thread on Biz

The system will not collapse and your nigger rocks will never be worth shit

>>16328724
Moron...

>>16328646
Natural rate of interest is 0% and because that's what's moral. You shouldn't be making money just by keeping it in a bank.

So since this is the boomer general do any of you give silver to your younger relatives for their birthdays or holidays?

>>16329070
30yo Boomer here and I'm actually planning to surprise a newlywed, halfway-pilled couple tomorrow with some physical gifts.

Spread the knowledge to worthy decent folks. I can't speak for the BOOMER boomers though. That's up to them. Not holding my breath though, maybe next-of-kin will have it willed to them.

>>16328160
nah, just QE forever and ever
nothing to see here

>>16328841
Though I have some sympathy for that argument, it is flawed: Firstly what's natural doesn't correspond to what's moral. Secondly, why shouldn't people have an incentive to keep money in a bank? Thirdly there's the practical argument: if interest rates can't be used to control inflation, it means that fiscal policy will have to be used instead. Though that's generally a good thing, it will require more government intervention on a faster timescale than the government usually acts.

It might make more sense to aim for a long term interest rate equal to the inflation rate.

And why do you think >>16328724 is a moron?

Bump

>>16327180
(((Rothbard)))

No thanks.

>>16328841
This. Intersts is a Jewish invention and it’s how they got a monopoly on all the world’s resources. They stared doing this over 3,000 years ago

We have to stop playing their game and deprive these bastards of their wealth by going back to the barter system. Trade between things that actually are useful in life not shines metals and federal reserve notes. Make that shit go to zero and Jews will mass suicide themselves it’lll be glorious

>>16330302

Just got 10oz in the mail right now lads. I'm at 90z. Will have 100oz eom

>>16328646
>Your use of the word "artificially" implies you believe there's a natural rate of interest. What do you think that is, and why?

Interest rates are simply the cost of currency over time. Like any price there is an equilibrium based on supply and demand. The Fed is deciding what it thinks interest rates should be, but they are not efficient in deciding this, they are human and have a bias. I say artificial because I believe that at these debt levels the equilibrium rate of currency over time, or interest rate, should be much higher. How high? That should be for the free market to decide, based on supply and demand.

>If debt increases too fast you get inflation; too slow and you get economic stagnation. Right now it's increasing too slow.

What you have now is debt saturation, and low velocity of money. This is because over the past 2-3 decades interest rates have been held artificially low. Your average consumer is leveraged up the ass and their wages have stagnated. With current monetary policy there is no reward for saving money, a savings account doesn’t earn enough interest to beat inflation. So those that are prudent enough to not be levered up, and have saved money, they generally aren’t saving money they’re investing it in the stock market. Savings are important because that’s what people use for starting a business, capital expenditure. (Creating jobs) But there’s no point in taking the risk to start a business when the Fed is insuring the stock market keeps going up. S&P is up almost 30% this year based on lies and QE.

>Name one?

According to the WSJ:
>One euro junk bond from U.S. packaging company Ball Corp, for example, trades at a yield of minus 0.2% and matures in December 2020.

>https://www.wsj.com/articles/oxymoron-alert-some-high-yield-bonds-go-negative-11563096601

>That's good; it means businesses are investing in the future!

Corporations are borrowing at record low interest rates to buy back stocks!

>>16328160
>There are record amounts of debt, because of interest rate manipulation. There will eventually be a correction
a correction of what?
They are already negative nigger

>>16332394

Do you not understand what a correction is? It is a return to equilibrium. This will mean higher interest rates, higher standards for credit worthiness. There will be defaults.

>>16329149
>I'm actually planning to surprise a newlywed, halfway-pilled couple tomorrow with some physical gifts.
The perfect wedding gift for a halfway-pilled couple

>>16332165
>With current monetary policy there is no reward for saving money, a savings account doesn’t earn enough interest to beat inflation. So those that are prudent enough to not be levered up, and have saved money, they generally aren’t saving money they’re investing it in the stock market. Savings are important because that’s what people use for starting a business, capital expenditure. (Creating jobs)
Savings is bad, savings stops velocity of money. I know it seems intuitive that saving money is good, but it has been proven that austrian economics and auterity is bad. Keeping peoples money out of banks and making them depend more on credit it good. QE is basically the Fed buying up bonds to trash the price of bonds so that banks can just put their money in the bond market and for forced to do what theyre supposed to do which is loan out money.

>>16312472
Is constitutional silver a good way to invest in silver? Or should I be stacking .999 fine?

>>16332635
>so that banks can just put their money in the bond market
*cant

>>16332635

Savings are actually good, that’s how people can start businesses and expand existing businesses. You say Austrian economics are proven to be bad yet the current Keynesian experiment has been an utter failure.

>>16332653
If you can get it at low premium then sure.

>>16332683
Why would it matter how low the premium is if im expecting like a 100x return over the next decade?
I understand not paying a huge premium, but what's the ideal premium?

>>16332703
if you dont care about paying a reasonable premium then there is no reason for you to buy junk silver

>>16332856
Ok, fine, what's a reasonable premium?

>>16332859
premium on most well known coins and bars are reasonable

>>16332871
Faggot kill yourself. I'm going to pay a 100% premium and stilm do better than you.

30 oz gold 300 oz silver chad here.

Thinking about adding 200 more OZ to my silver stack. Are there anons here with over 1000 OZ of silver? for me it's gold since i can store a lot of value in hidden spots but silver is heavy as fuck and i have to store in in a safe.

>>16332988
Just bury the silver.
Also I'm quite sure a few anons have well over 1000 ounces.
I saw someone on /pol who had 3k ounces.

>>16333013
i wish i had property to bury it. I think the forrest would be to risky.

>>16333020
Fair enough.

Silver is an industrial metal now and will never be used for barter again. Gold is the store of value.

>>16333071
Lying kike.

>>16333078

Prove me wrong. Silvers limitations is the miners.

>>16332871
where would you suggest buying from so i dont get screwed? i buy small quantities at apmex, and im not smooth enough to talk down pawn shops

>>16333095
I don't have to prove anything.
All I have to do is hold some silver and let the bankers do the rest.
JP morgan is not shorting/hoarding for no reason ..

>>16333020
with guns you can get a piece of pvc pipe and fill it with oil to bury in your backyard. cap off the ends, no water will get into it to harm your stash. or if you can drywall, hide the shit in an interior wall

>>16333110

Boomer fantasies of the apocalypse. You're a bag holder.

>>16328160
The thing that confuses me about negative rates is taking out a loan. Why can't you just take out a loan, pay it back immediately, and pocket the interest you received? What's the risk at all?

>>16328841
You have never run a business before.

>>16333127
No, realistic expectations of a deflationary market collapse. It won't be apocalyptic, but it will be hectic.

>>16333153
And what kind of businesses have you run? you decrepit old piece of shit boomer.

>>16328841
>>16330302
The Fed kept rates at zero or extremely close for seven years, 2008-2015. Was that time the peak of human morality and of jews getting crushed?

>>16333178
Kind of, it was the time for them to really load up on all types of physical assets with their funny money.

>>16333170
I'll tell you the purpose of interest not for you, you whiny crybaby, you insolent player of the blame game, but for anyone reading who may be curious.

You have the borrower and you have the lender. When you go and ask your dad if you can borrow 10 dollars, he doesn't expect to receive 10 dollars PLUS another dollar back for the time or whatever, because he trusts you and doesnt care much about how long it will take for you to pay him back. There's not really any risk there. The problem comes when you loan money to people you don't know. There's risk there because you don't know if they'll be able to pay it back. To lower that risk, you need to verify how much money they make, what their assets are, credit history, criminal background etc. If they don't have a steady income and are deep in debt, you're less likely to lend them money for fear that they don't pay it back. Untrustworthy, unreliable idiots are less likely to pay back money, as we so well know. If you loan out a bunch of money to people that dont pay it back, you suffer as a lender. You lose a lot of money. To get the money back, or to make any money at all, you have to use this thing called interest, because remember we're dealing with complete strangers here, not friends or family. If you loan out 150 dollars at 10% interest, you expect to be paid back 150 dollars plus 10% of 150 dollars, for a profit of 15 dollars. Interest is the PRICE of money. It is how much you want back for the money you gave out. If you lend to a bunch of idiots who dont pay it back, thereby "defaulting" on their loan, then you have to raise your interest rate so the few who do pay back their loans will make you suffer less. You also have to be more stringent in making sure you don't lend to idiots.

>>16333286
Now you understand why the lender charges interest. So what about the borrower? Why would you want to borrow money you don't have?

Let's say you want to buy a machine that creates chocolate bars. You want to sell your own personalized chocolate bars to the local candy store. The ingredients are chocolate and sugar, and you buy these regularly to have the machine stamp the pattern you want into the candy. The machine costs 10,000 dollars. You have 8,000 dollars. You don't have enough to buy the machine. You want to start your business NOW because Halloween is in 40 days, and you'll miss the best time for business if you have to work to buy the machine with your own savings. For this reason, you take out a loan. You tell all of this to the lender at the bank, and after verifying that you're even planning to follow through with your proposal, he agrees to loan you 2,500 dollars. He charges 5% interest, meaning you have to pay back 2,500 dollars plus 125 dollars in INTEREST at the agreed-upon time when the debt comes due. He doesn't just give out money for free and expect it paid back with nothing extra in return for him, because that's ridiculous. So you use the you've borrowed plus your savings to go and buy the equipment you need. You create a bunch of candy bars and sell them to the candy store, in the end giving you a profit of 5,000 dollars. You go back to the lender, pay him 2,625 dollars, and the day is done. Everyone wins.

Now, what if you instead wanted to buy a really fast car? You don't have enough money, so you go to the bank for a loan. If you tell that to the lender, he's going to turn his nose up to you because 1. if you had the money to buy the car, you won't be coming to get a loan for it, and 2. a really fast car is never going to yield a return on investment, and is in fact a quickly depreciating asset. It's lost 15% of its value after driving off the lot. How does the lender have any assurance you'll pay back the money? He doesn't.

>>16333209
Oh yes, 2008-2015, remember when Obama rounded up all the Jews and put them in concentration camps? Remember when the guys at the Federal Reserve were lined up and shot?

>>16332635
>but it has been proven that austrian economics
No, it has not.

>>16332635
Why is high money velocity good?

>>16332165
Appreciate your answers

>>16333127
"Apocalyptic fantasies" are about as antithetical to the thinking of your average baby boomer as north is to south.

>>16333110
>JP morgan is not shorting/hoarding for no reason ..
It is linked to a silver ETF this is why it's implicated with silver

>>16327879
>copper
based

>>16333615
the reason we had a great depression was that banks were hoarding money and not lending it out. money does not do any good unless youre earning it and spending it, money by itself is worthless if its not being used to buy/lend/invest

>>16312472
Instead of fantasizing about some 0% chance doomsday scenario how about you buy some stocks fagatron

>>16333862
No, the reason we had a great depression was because the Federal Reserve kept interest rates at 4% for almost 10 years, creating a bubble. Of course banks were worried about lending money after the bubble had popped, because they'd already lost a ton.

So to all the precious metal doubters why is China, both the people and the gov, so intent on hoarding gold?

>>16333490
you have an elementary school level understanding of economics, what you didnt factor in with your example of banks lending money is that bank loans create money out of thing air that didnt exist before. a lot of people who rage about capitalism being a ponzi scheme dont realize that banks can only function on an every increasing money supply and consumption of wealth

>>16334112
>what you didnt factor in with your example of banks lending money is that bank loans create money out of thing air that didnt exist before.
This only happens in our currently fascistic financial system. How it happened before the Federal Reserve, and how it happens ideally, is far simpler.
>you have an elementary school level understanding of economics
No, I have a sane understanding of economics.

>>16333862
>>16333926
No, the Great Depression was caused by the Federal Reserve trying to reimplement the Real Bills Doctrine.

>>16334082
The Chinese public don't trust their financial system and Chinese central bankers are orthodox morons so they're going down the route of building up reserves without any real long term strategy beyond maybe thinking about de-dollarizeing but they'll be forced to backtrack on that

>>16334670
>trying to reimplement the Real Bills Doctrine
Except that was a better description of reality already

>>16332557
absolutely based, I need to get more silverware for my collection
>>16332653
yeah constitutional is good
personally I stick with mostly dimes but I have a little of everything

>>16335112
mercury dimes are my favorite

>>16327879
>>16333773
lol there's no reason to buy copper, silver is cheap enough
if you want something to pad out the stack though just save your nickels and pre-83 pennies
maybe go buy a sack full of wheat pennies and be done with it

>>16335123
yeah mercs are awesome
I've been buying roosevelts lately though just because they're cheaper

>>16322757

the reichsmarks after the war starts often have less silver content though. you want the premium 1933 -> 1938 ones

>>16325661
fair point on 20th cengury nonsense

it will continue to happen. great book written by ray dalio on the weimar republic debt crisis. the market has a LONG way to boom; you could see SP500 sitting at 5000 very easy (15% per year, 3.5 years). The real redpill is not just buying silver, but any hedge against inflation; real estate, silver, gold, bitcoin, sp500 (small positions), and
>food companies

>>16325924
top kopek. you can sometimes get them on the cheap becuaes they're hard to sell in germany compaerd to other coins.

>>16335146

copper is a controlled metal in australia now, just like silver and gold. There may not be a crisis in the US, but Australia is completely fucked

Immagine investing in silver when you can buy a Biotech ETF after the crash and you will make a x10 in 10 years

ahaha immagine seriously buying a metal. A roc for which the demand doesn't justify the ''muh 200$''
And for which the ''muh 200$'' cames only from conspirancy /pol theory of chaos made by weird NEET doomers

Imagine being this stupid to fall for such a meme like this (silver)

>>16335304

obviously dont go all in on silver. I would say 30% of your net worth should be in inflation hedge assets (real estate, metals, food, - tangible assets that allow you to live independently). Silver should be a part of that mix. So if you're worth $1,0m USD having $10k-20k of silver is probably not a bad idea

if you work at mcdonalds and put 50% of your paycheque into silver car wash tokens then yes you are retarded.

>>16335325
>obviously dont go all in on silver. I would say 30% of your net worth should be in inflation hedge assets (real estate, metals, food, - tangible assets that allow you to live independently
I don't have a million bro... and silver won't moon beyond the usual 5% year rate

>>16335325
great. i just have to get to the $1m mark so i can buy silver.
then buy stocks.
then buy a house

>>16334735
>Except that was a better description of reality already
On the contrary, it was deluded fantasy - it failed to take into account the problems getting credit that many people had. The Fed had previously abandoned it in favour of a price stability objective. When they tried to reimplement it, the results were catastrophic.

>>16335263
>copper is a controlled metal in australia now, just like silver and gold.
WTF is a controlled metal? When I googled it, I found plenty of info about corrosion control, but silver and gold don't need that!

>There may not be a crisis in the US, but Australia is completely fucked
Not completely, but the current government is economically clueless. Australia may even be heading for a recession - but will probably escape it due to a strong mining sector.

>>16335304
This lil nigga fucking gets it

>>16334735
Nobody wants scam commie chink currency literally under 5% of world trade

Everyone knows those retards are a house of cards

>>16335646

Copper is a controlled metal

>If you buy or sell copper (or ANY other metal), you must provide ID and have it recorded that you made this purchase
>illegal to trade cash for metal
>For each transaction dealers will also be required to record the details of the seller of the material, a description of the scrap metal including its quantity and weigh

They were talking about regulating the trade of all plumbing materials at one stage in Tasmania, due to "criminals dealing in scrap metal" and "people using scrap metal to make firearms". Absolute horseshit.

>>16335678
bingo

>>16335168
Disgusting!
I hate that his traitor face is on money!

>>16335304
Shut up then you nigger, more silver for me!

Someone explain to me why silver will not 100x, if not in usd price, in purchasing power.
We have yet to get a global currency in the mix, which I think will be tethered to several assets.

>>16329070
I plan to start gifting my folks with 1oz coins every year starting this Christmas. Probably just Eagles since numismatics will almost certainly be lost on them.

>>16328724
Historical data says otherwise.

>>16336048
lol yeah trust me I hate him too but they'll be good to have in the collapse phase

>>16336351
Yup, silver is silver.
If I bought a large amount of them though, I would probably melt them down I hate him so much..

>>16327358
Neither do any of the other schools
The austrian one is by far the only one that stands up to empirical results

>>16327879
At least on corporate debt, I doubt there will be any real crisis on sovereign debt since all the leading central banks have monetized it

Is buying 1oz of gold and silver a good start?

>>16336041
Ah. I think I know what this is the result of:
A few years ago Today Tonight (or possibly A Current Affair) did a segment about copper thefts from building sites. But they mistook the copper price per tonne for per kg, so there was subsequently a huge surge in the number of copper thefts, and calls for the government to do something about it.

>>16336966

the copper price about a decade ago was huge. my uncle got the contract to remove all the plumbing and wiring from an old asbestos hospital in about 2008 in Australia.

He said "yeah i'll take all the rubbish away for free" as a selling point lol. Then he sold the copper pipe system from the hospital for $60,000 cash

>>16336753
>Neither do any of the other schools
>The austrian one is by far the only one that stands up to empirical results
LOL

While it's true that economists of all schools make false assumptions, the Austrian one rivals communism in its utter blindness to empirical results!

>>16337030
yeah, just keep believing random keynesian lies

>>16312557
>>16312604
this guy fucks

>>16336938
Go all silver!

>>16312557
Nigger blockchain is going to wreck those fraudsters a new asshole.
This shit cannot last forever.

>>16337036
I go with the evidence, unlike those who keep spreading random austrian lies.

>>16335263
Yeah I mean Reichsmarks are a little uncommon in the US mostly because they're so popular(everything WWII/Nazi related is highly collectible here)/
As for the copper, it's one of those things where unless you're pulling copper pennies out of change or scrapping copper, you can't really get it without paying ridiculous premiums, at least here anyway.
>>16336581
lol I probably wouldn't melt them but they'll definitely be the first ones to go in my stack.
>>16336938
Yeah gold is always a good asset to have but you gotta get that silver weight up and also realize that by buying gold, you're missing out on the opportunity to stack a bunch of silver.

>>16326805
Glad you realized what real wealth is, anon. I am so happy 5 u. Now only if we can all get waifus.

>>16337196
what silver is the best coins and bars?
Bar seem more appealing

>>16337236
i buy apmex stackables and silver eagles

>>16337110
Evidence as the disasters keynesian economics have done throughout history?

>>16337236
RCM bars.
>a fucking leaf

>>16312472
how are those facts a silverpill? they sound to me like evidence that precious metals can no longer reasonably support fiat and are no longer core economic units

Woah woah woah, people think silver can get to $5,000 an ounce? I thought the Bitcoin tards were delusional with 100K per bitcoin but 5K an oz of silver is beyond retarded.

>>16337312
OK, Mr. Powell.

>>16324591

>Larping this hard
German Marks are no longer legal tender after 2002

>>16337333
Anon, seriously, I love dreaming about moonshots to, but you have to be realistic. In what fucking world can silver ever be $5000? I'll buy 100oz right now if you convince me.

>>16337377
Jews

>>16337386

>>16337236
I mean it depends on where you live but for me(USA) I think junk dimes and quarters are the best fractional to buy and then silver eagles for pure bullion.
Bars it doesn't matter too much what you buy(I personally have a variety).
My only advice with bars would be to not go above ten ouncers until you've already acquired a few hundred ounces or so and even then, I don't think it's worth it but that's all up to you.

>>16337377
Just imagine all of the world's fiat currency disappearing over night.
How much is silver worth in a world with no fiat?

>>16337266
If you want to look at economic disasters throughout history, you'll find that centrally planned currency values are behind most of them.

>>16313414
look into smaller portions of gold. 1/10 oz or 1/2 oz coins a good way to spend $780-$800

>>16312984
Gold is a hedge against disaster, hyperinflation, and panic. It spikes during events like 9/11, and tends to hold its value over time.

Silver is pure speculation.

>>16338385
Silver is just as good if not even better than gold as a hedge against disaster.
The only reason the rich do not hold silver is because someone like Bezos could easily buy all of the available supply on the market and then the game would be over.
The fact that silver is out of favor is to our advantage.

>>16337772
>austrian economics
>centrally planned currency values

I wanna buy 100 American Eagles; SD bullion seems like the best deal for buying 100 "2019 American Silver Eagle Coin BU" (1985$) , but is it worth paying a premium for the "2019 American Silver Eagle Mini Monster Box - MintCertified™ PU (100 Count)" (2060$)?

>>16338725

Also, any tips for buying bullion?

>>16338725
>but is it worth paying a premium for the "2019 American Silver Eagle Mini Monster Box - MintCertified™ PU (100 Count)"
in my opinion, no
in fact if you have a local coinshop I would suggest going there for the best price on eagles simply because they normally buy in bulk and pass on the savings to you

>>16338605
Yes, I mentioned it in >>16327951
Their preference or the free market doesn't extend to fiat currency. Most of them want the currency value to be pegged to gold.