/biz/ - Business & Finance

>caring about lolbertardians

Why?

>>15948104
>>15948112
>Low IQ COPE.
Rent free, subhumans

ancaps and commies are both losers

look for someone who isn't a loser, figure out what they're doing and copy it

>>15948104
I guess the implication is that "surplus value extracted from your labor" is a worse theft than taxes, but this is predicated on the (inaccurate) idea that the average laborer has the ability and skills to realize that surplus value without selling it to an 'entrepeneur' (business owner). The fact is, most laborers do not have the time, inclination, or skill to maintain the business relationships or market the good or service produced by their labor in such a way as to realize the hypothetical surplus value that is 'extracted' from it by somebody else who is good at those things and takes the risk to make it all happen.
This is a chart made by people who have never operated their own business and who would surely fail if they tried.

>>15948104
Why does "Surplus x" only apply to labor? When I sell my laptops why isn't there some "surplus value" there I can whine about?

>>15948163
this

ancaps don't understand that none of their capitalism even exists without state protection and enforcement

commies dont understand that none of the value produced by workers would exist without the capital provided by the capitalist

all in all neither have any grasp of how the world works, which is why the only people who believe in this shit are incel online weirdos

>>15948104
>value produced by your labout
Entirely subjective. Commies think that their work is absolutely essential and society will crumble without them while their boss can see that they're lazy fatasses that spend all day on Twitter and is already looking for a replacement
>taxes are theft
Objectively true. Money the government gets through taxes requires violent force by police to obtain, people only pay them to avoid that situation occuring in the first place.

Lol you massive queer, that yellow circle should be the biggest one, taxes would literally look like a cancerous mass of tumors on that picture if it wasnt tailored for left wing niggers.

Your "labor" that your boss receives geta taxed by the state, your actual pay gets taxed, the things you buy get taxed, the things the buisness buys to sell or keep running gets taxed, your bosses profit gets taxed, the things your boss buys gets taxed, the people that pay for your goods or services get taxed on them, literally every circle in that picture is backwards retard. Taxes make the most money in that picture, then you make the next most money from your paycheck, and then your boss makes 5-10-20% of that total value in surplus aka profit. Literally most braindead picture i have ever seen. Thats why governments dont care about debt retard because literally every piece of that pie is absorbed by taxes over time.

>>15948238
that's pretty retarded. companies could feasibly continue to run and operate if CEO's and managers disappeared tomorrow, but they would grind to an instantaneous halt if workers didnt show up to work

this kind of Randian bootlicking is honestly just as bad as any communist

>>15948306

>companies could feasibly continue to run and operate if CEO's and managers disappeared tomorrow,

>>15948306
Better worded as:
Would companies continue to run if all their capital (or more specifically, funds) suddenly dried up?

>>15948360
their funds come from revenue generated from making and selling goods. can a company continue to produce goods and revenue without bosses? they can, and already do (worker coops)

but every company would stop functioning entirely if the labourers stopped labouring

>>15948399
Oh yes, and how do worker coops get organized? Can you show us an example of such a worker coop?

>>15948306
this is someone who has never actually had a job

>>15948410
mondragon corporation

>>15948399
>be shareholder
>hire a CEO just cuz I like burning millions of dollars for no reason
>hire a bunch of managers too for no reason just cuz

>>15948263
based.

>>15948416
Straight from the wikipedia page:

At Mondragon, there are agreed-upon wage ratios between executive work and field or factory work which earns a minimum wage. These ratios range from 3:1 to 9:1 in different cooperatives and average 5:1. That is, the general manager of an average Mondragon cooperative earns no more than 5 times as much as the theoretical minimum wage paid in their cooperative.

Compared to similar jobs at local industries, Mondragon managers' wages are considerably lower (as some companies pay their best paid managers hundreds of times more than the lowest-paid employee of the company) and equivalent for middle management, technical and professional levels.

These low wages make it very difficult to recruit managers from investor-owned firms"

>>15948416
That's actually a pretty good idea.
So in that way socialist can organize themselfs to work without complaining about someone exploring them.

That way everyone will be happy!

If you feel you are being explored by your boss just don't work for him and join or create a worker coops so we don't have to hear you complain about this bullshit again kek

>>15948416
Please note that I think worker cooperatives can work, I'm not shitting on you for nothing, its simply from my view point you are missing some very critical concerns with how and why labor is distributed the way it is in capitalist societys.

>>15948104
consent

>>15948482
so your real concern here is that the poor CEO's can't earn 1000x the average pleb meat sack worker?

>>15948545
CEOs do 1000x more valuable work. Just ask the shareholders

>>15948545
No, but you specifically said the workers could still operate without managers when the page literally says they have to hire managers. Also I believe managers should be payed what a free market rate says they are worth, and you disagree but the wikipedia quote I posted specifically mentions how they have a hard time convincing private sector managers to join them.

>>15948104
taxes and state redistribution introduce inefficiency and perverse incentives to the market.
this is a fact. however who would pay for basic infrastructure that everyone can use?

>>15948263
>Lol you massive queer, that yellow circle should be the biggest one
not the biggest one, but in my country total tax burden is close to 65%. (meanwhile the widely touted income tax is 15%, used to be 18%)

how is this possible you ask?

well your total cost gets a reduction that the employer pays 20%, so you got 0.8 as your "wage" to begin with.

then you pay your 15% and 10% and 8.5% a total of 33.5%, you are at 0.53 at this point.

there are various smaller taxes and fees adding up to an additional 1-2% coming with owning things and using infrastructure (yeah... the irony) and then your 0.5 aka 50% gets an other big hit a 27% vat when you try to spend it and the poor have no choice but to spend their income. so 36.5% left of your income. and this is me being generous but whatever.

it's crazy, but remember only 15% income tax folks! living the dream!

>>15948163
Fucking this. I think commies especially have this weird disconnect from reality, where they say "capitalism doesn't work my unskilled manual labor has value even though no one wants to pay more for it etc. etc."
But if you look at the people who actually work capitalism, yes, it fucking works, if you work it. Get it?

>selling your labor to someone else for their benefit
The cope of the wagie

>>15948941
I think it's even worse when they try to pretend their labor is more valuable than a couple bucks per hour. Uh, if you're forced to work for someone else, then you're a loser and your labor isn't very valuable (you're replaceable, there is a new loser born every minute)

>>15948104
Average return on equity 8% https://www.google.com/search?q=average+return+on+equity
Tax revune as a share of GDP choose your country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#/media/File:Tax_Revenue_as_Share_of_GDP_for_OECD_Countries_in_2009.jpg

I picked Sweden. Pic related. Squarez > circles when comparing area. Ancap is the autist way. Only reason it is being bashed on biz is because of muh crypto neets who live of welfare.

>>15948104
Completely nonsensical and inaccurate. Whoever created that infographic is defending big government and high taxes. The assumptions made are that "surplus value" is always guaranteed to be much larger than employee compensation, that revenue/expenses are fixed, and value produced by your labor is fixed, which is often not the case. "Surplus value" depends on how much money the business is making and value of your labor depends only on how much your employers value you. If you're easily replaceable, then you don't have much value.

Taxes generally only take into account of your income and nothing else. The infographic implies that the current taxing system is correct and just while employee compensation is wrong. If I always get taxed 30%, that means businesses would be held to a higher standard and will have make a certain amount of money to ensure that they can pay livable wages to their employees while the government, with guaranteed income from taxes, can do anything they want, inefficiently or ineffectively, without any consequences, and still continue to exist. Small businesses would have difficulty existing, which would leave only large businesses existing and eventually monopolies. A dystopian nightmare.

CEO's:. They are way overpaid, not because shareholders are stupid. Shareholders hire high paid CEOs because they want them to be focused on maximizing profits while fucking the working class below them. If you remove the shareholders from the equation the CEOs would be sitting on billions in profits and would distribute that among the workforce.
But CEOs in a capitalist system are there to make money for the shareholder fully at the expense of the worker.
It's a dumb system and any system that would generate a fair wage for the worker and a reasonably solid compensation for the managers and executives would make better products and services with less turnover and a better quality workforce
That is the truth

>>15948970
You miss the point of the value of paying people a reasonable wage. The society you live in turns to shit when you have drastic income inequality. The middle class in the US has been driven down to working for food and medicine to get by. They hate their jobs and their lives. In the end you have a shit society in exchange for adding more to your stack that is already so large it can't reasonably be spent to improve your life in any way.
The only people who support unbridled capitalism are fucking idiots brainwashed by billionaires to think someday they can be them which they obviously won't.

>>15948104
Jokes on you i dont produce shit

>>15948104
The way commies want it, the entire fucking circle would be "taxes".

>>15948104
It's not, taxes are represented as a tiny detail in your income whereas it's between one third and half of what your income in most European countries. That's of course excluding the taxes in literally everything you consume.

>>15948226
How did the capitalists get their capital?

>>15949618
what about my example? >>15948784
is it a serious outlier or people are way more cucked than they think because they can't do or bother with basic math?

>>15948226
>le incel insult
why should I care what a feminist says?

>>15949644
By Divine Right. They Are Succesful Because They Are The Gods Chosen

>>15948104

>>15949644
99% of the time it's inherited. You can't earn that type of capital.

>>15948399
>but every company would stop functioning entirely if the labourers stopped labouring

It would also stop functioning if the owners took all their systems, buildings, machinery, and information that they invested in and went home.

>>15948104
"Your labor" is only a piece of the system making the business run and is easily replaceable by other meat bags and will soon be replaced by AI. Let's say I take a tremendous risk of starting a restaurant... I have to come up with a concept and menu, lease or buy a building, buy all the furniture, buy all the kitchen equipment, setup a Point of sale system, come up with a marketing strategy, create all the systems of how the restaurant runs, order all the inventory, pay the utilities, and go through hell to pass all city regulations and health inspections. Then I have to find and train these meat bags to do the tasks I designate for them. According to your infographic any money that's not paid to these meatbags is just "surplus" and they deserve all the proceeds? They ought to be replaced my machines.

>>15950128
After doing all that work I should just donate all of it to the sacks of shit just because they showed up and know how to do what they're told right? (half the time they can't even do that)

>>15948306
>companies could feasibly continue to run and operate if CEO's and managers disappeared tomorrow

no they wouldn't. they would degenerate and fall apart immediately. Your labor is only useful in the context of an organized system that took a lot of risk, money, and intelligent thought to build and continues to require those things to maintain them. Look the workers at walmart. Just fucking look at them. Why don't they just band together and start their own worker owned store? BECAUSE THEY'RE FUCKING USELESS SLUGS and should be grateful every day that someone more intelligent than them set up a very controlled system that allows them to be economically and feed them selves even with their narrow repertoire of skills.

A question that hasn't come up yet and should in any conversation like this follows from this anons point.

>>15948226

> commies dont understand that none of the value produced by workers would exist without the capital provided by the capitalist

Before questioning whether or not this statement is entirely true lets ask a different question. It is a reality that capitalists have capital, that is clearly visible to everyone here. So where did they get it? Is their capital justly obtained? Asking this specific question causes the house of cards to tumble rapidly because in the vast majority of cases accumulated capital can be causally traced to conquest and theft. The monarchy was not rich because god ordained it, it was rich because it stole that wealth from the serfs through feudalism. Europe and America got rich by stealing wealth through conquest and colonial extraction just as China is today. That wealth never truly shifted hands back into the commons after the "fall of feudalism."

The monarchs of old became the business oligarchs of tomorrow and democratic revolutions during the fall of empire never truly succeeded. With this in mind it is on those grounds regardless of if one believes in market or command economies that the capital of the capitalists is illegitimate. They never respected private, personal or common property and still don't. To defend their system is traitorous and to reform it is madness. The only path forward is revolt.

>>15951046
If your hypothesis is true then the man with the most capital in the world must have had colonial slave owning ancestors -oh wait... his dad was a broke immigrant from commie hellhole and then his son started an online bookstore. And you don't deserve a cent.

>>15951280

You don't understand. The conditions even allowing him to gain that capital only exist because of prior conquest and his fathers immigration to an imperial center. As in, America is rich and some upward mobility exists within America but only because America as a whole exploited property rights and abused generations of people. The causal relation still exists, there is no escaping it. Also you can't cherry pick like that. No where did I say ALL (even though in this case it still applies.)

>>15948104
If the capitalist provides the framework which allows your labour to be extracted in the first place he's entitled to a cut. If people are too stupid to efficiently extract their own labour value they cant be picky.

Go live in the woods and keep 100% of your labour if you you think you're getting such a shitty deal. Report back with findings.

>>15951382
>Damn capitalists stole from someone 10 generations ago REEE it's all tainted!!! REEE
>Ok guys it's time to kill all the bourgeois and distribute their wealth. it's totally cool

>>15949879
>It's impossible to get a job and save enough money to start a business

>>15948104
I work with a couple libertarians, holy fuck are they lazy

>>15948196
You pretty much nailed it. It's not the worker's job. It's the Entrepreneur's job, he just can't do it all by himself, so he hires people to help him. Workers agree to work for whatever the Entrepreneur agrees to pay them, based on the free market for labor and supply/demand.
Nodoby is extracting surplus value from labor. THe worker offers it for sale, the Entrepreneur offers to buy it. They set a price they both agree on.
If the worker could turn his labor into economic value without selling it to someone else, he generally does. When he cannot do it alone, he sells his labor to someone who can, and needs to hire extra labor for assistance.

>>15948306
Disagree. If workers' don't show up, management can replace them. If management doesn't show up, the whole place falls apart and rots.

>>15949415
>In the end you have a shit society
No, you have a shit business that wouldn't succeed without various legal and political machinations that keep your shit business afloat. That's the shit society you're worried about.

>>15951382
Where do you draw the line? Everywhere, throughout the course of human history, people have been exploited in one way or the other. It's not limited to victimization of one class by another another. Heck, even your "best" friends and spouse can exploit you. It's impossible to rectify this inequality. No matter what you do, there will always be one small group of the people that benefit the most from whatever system that's being implemented.

>>15951428

> I didn't own the slaves, I'm just the beneficiary of their labour and continue to financially and materially benefit from their labour today. I politically separate them through national borders while being materially reliant on extracting their wealth.

If you think I'm just talking about extraction 10 generations ago you're missing the point. The imperial core exports crisis in return for labor value from the colonies of the imperium. For a microcosm example of how this works observe apartheid in South Africa. The whole world is in apartheid it's just not as easily observed. The imperium also shifts, it's not inherently a "muh whites r bad" thing. East Asia is becoming a strong imperial core as we speak.

>>15948399
Also, you're ignoring how the company got there in the first place. And it wasnt' the laborers.

>>15951504
It's weird people this stupid exist.

>>15951504
Nothing but meaningless word salad.

>>15951382
>The conditions even allowing him to gain that capital only exist because of prior conquest and his fathers immigration to an imperial center.

So are you going to tell all the people immigrating to America that they're literally stealing?

>No where did I say ALL
>the capital of the capitalists is illegitimate. They never respected private, personal or common property and still don't. To defend their system is traitorous and to reform it is madness. The only path forward is revolt.

You said the capital of capitalists is illegitimate and that you deserve to revolt. (and steal all their money?) Or are you going to leave the people that didn't gain their wealth from violence alone... oh wait but Bezos's dad commited violence by immigrating from Cuba so he's fair game.

You're retarded. You'll never accomplish anything. You deserve nothing.

>>15949089
>If you remove the shareholders from the equation the CEOs would be sitting on billions in profits and would distribute that among the workforce.
If you remove shareholders from the equation then the company never got funding to exist int he first place dumbfuck.
>>15949089
>any system that would generate a fair wage for the worker and a reasonably solid compensation for the managers and executives would make better products and services with less turnover and a better quality workforce
No, because in a free market, a competitor would pay workers less, cut costs where he could, and offer the same value product for cheaper, and put your socialist utopia company out of business.
Becuase even though your soft cookie-dough ass that's never faced the real world likes to drivel online about muh, worker class, you still prefer to get value for your dollar when you go shopping.
You're the problem. You don't agree to pay needlessly high prices for goods and services. You instead buy from the evil capitalist who figured out how to offer you the same product for cheaper.

>>15949415
The most drastic difference in living standards is always Socialist/Communist countries. The people are starving and poor while the Party Member is wearing Armani suits and rolling around in a Bentley.

>>15950319
>Look the workers at walmart. Just fucking look at them.
Perfect example. Let's let the average employee staff at Walmart decide when to oder goods, when and where to stock the shelves. Set the prices however they see fit. Let them set their own schedules and let's see how it turns out.

>>15951497

I draw the line at mutual benefit or wealth that an individual can create on their own. For example, a craftsmen working his own land and generating his own value is just. Wage labour isn't inherently unjust, it's just that modern circumstances have poisoned the well so much that most capital is tainted as are its products and the way it creates them. I'd offer an alternative history in response to the second part of your question. Human history from my observation isn't a history of people exploiting one another but rather a history of us learning through brutal error how to cooperate better. The long historical trend is pro cooperation and mutual reciprocation not exploitation.

Our species started its existence as small family groupings. Overtime those groupings learned they could accomplish more by merging into tribes, and again those tribes learned they could accomplish more by federating into states. We are living through the growing pains of those same states learning that they would be much better off together than apart.

To clarify what I mean by reciprocity before someone tries to claim I'm advocating absolute pacifism (i'm not.) Mutual aid is simple to work with to the mutual benefit of both parties any party who is willing to work with you while also being hostile towards any party that attempts to exploit you. Since those who do cooperate are stronger together than those who don't they will eventually win out in natural selection and on a long historical timescale do.

>>15951382
>America as a whole exploited property rights and abused generations of people
The whole fucking history of the entire world has been an endless swirl of migrations, wars, ingress and egress of populations. There's nothing unique about the United States in that regard. Going all the way back to the dawn of humankind, on every contient.

>>15951280
>bezos
>the most capital
in any case if you think amazon isnt doing shady deals with three letter agencies theres no hope for you

>>15948196
based

>>15948196
the implication is that there's no difference between the rentier economy of government tax and the rentier economy of capitalist extraction of surplus labour

>>15951504
Take your meds

>>15948263
>less than 100% of a total amount is bigger than the total amount
where the fuck do you live that taxes are over 100% lmao

>>15951541

> So are you going to tell all the people immigrating to America that they're literally stealing?

That's not what I said. I said that the conditions that allow an immigrant to get rich only exist in the imperial core. Immigrating in its own right does not guarantee economic mobility.

> You said the capital of capitalists is illegitimate and that you deserve to revolt. (and steal all their money?) Or are you going to leave the people that didn't gain their wealth from violence alone... oh wait but Bezos's dad commited violence by immigrating from Cuba so he's fair game.

I said revolt is the way forward not that I specifically deserve to. I did say that the capital of capitalists is illegitimate that doesn't mean that all capital ever in all points of history used by every person is. As for pointing fingers that's not what I'm doing. I'm pointing out the conditions themselves and that they are unjust because moving class conflict forward (something the rich do a good job of on their own I'll add) is the only way to move us beyond our modern conditions. So yes, that means Bezos is suspect as long as he holds vast wealth. Jeff Bezos's dad isn't until he gains vast wealth. The act of immigrating alone doesn't guarantee economic prosperity.

> You're retarded. You'll never accomplish anything. You deserve nothing.

The dialectic doesn't care about me or you, it just is.

>>15951609

see >>15951589

>>15951668
>>15951534
>>15951525

Not an argument

>>15951382
lefty pol get the fuck off /biz/ this board is incompatible with you

>>15951696

People could make the same argument about /pol/aks. But no, I was a biztard before I was Albanian so I'm chill. Not raiding but I do occasionally comment when I see people organically talking about these things. Still in crypto

>>15948551
go ahead

>>15948306
>companies could feasibly continue to run and operate if CEO's and managers disappeared tomorrow

>>15951820
mostly true, how many times has a a high level manager position not been filled and the company goes on as normal? pretty much every time

>>15951808
How does this contradict the idea that CEOs do more valuable work?

>>15948306
>companies could feasibly continue to run and operate if CEO's and managers disappeared tomorrow
Lol those people are paid to create, amend, and maintain the structure of production. They engineer labor, time, liabilities, and assets in such a way, taking risk into account, to produce profit.

>>15951852
r=0

>>15951796
>Still in crypto

U know you can only invest your capital in crypto because of imperialist exploitation of the lower class enabling people in rich countries to have the framework to create technology. Give all your crypto to poor people now or I’m gonna revolt against you.

>>15951876
Doesn't follow
>How much you pay your doctor has no relation to your survival rate
>This means a doctor's job is as valuable as a burger flipper

kys nigger

>>15951927
but that's exactly what it implies

>>15951504
You mong, any and all profits from slavery in the US were zeroed out by the start of WWI. Apartheid was not a means of resource extraction, it was a means of separating niggotry from civilized society.

>>15951504
Good. The weak should fear the strong.

>>15951850
That just means another manager is filling in. Remove everyone from first line managers to the CEO and see how things work out.

ANY AUSTRIAN HERE? BRO THIS IMAGE IS BASIC. MAKES ME LAUGHT. ¿Have you heard of the subjective value and theory of capital formation?

>>15951880

I'm not rich, it's not unethical for working class people to try to get ahead, bite me.

>>15952002

> You mong, any and all profits from slavery in the US were zeroed out by the start of WWI. Apartheid was not a means of resource extraction, it was a means of separating niggotry from civilized society.

Yes, because chattel slavery is the only form of slavery and the roaring 20s didn't happen directly after. Read Nick land, you'd like him because he appeals to your fetishisation of exogamy and talks about fascism without being retarded.

>>15951880
Do it, faggot.
You won't.

>>15952055
the most senior person goes to the top, and everyone under goes up a little bit. ultimately getting rid of one person, and by extension, one position, does fuck all

Powerful people are powerful.
Why do commies struggle to comprehend this fundamental fact of nature?

>>15951460
You don't understand, save up to start a business is easy if it's a fucking kebab stand with a couple workers. To own a real business you have to raise VC money and they rob you blind. To make a big company you have to take multiple rounds of VC money and you lose controlling ownership at the $20-30M level.
Just because some Boomer 30 years ago could do it doesn't mean you can now. The American dream most people grew up with is gone. It's a plutocracy at this point, you only win if you are selected to win. Even then you only partially win because whoever let you takes their pound of flesh.
Anyone who thinks free market capitalism works is a fucking idiot or doesn't want to admit they inherited their money and don't want anyone getting a fair shot in a world they know they aren't equipped to compete in.

>>15948104 >>15948112
>>15948143 >>15948163
>>15948196 >>15948218
>>15948226 >>15948238
>>15948263 >>15948306
>>15948316 >>15948360
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>>15948415 >>15948416
>>15948424 >>15948454
>>15948482 >>15948500
>>15948508 >>15948523
>>15948545 >>15948551
>>15948621 >>15948699
>>15948784 >>15948897
>>15948941 >>15948970
>>15949029 >>15949074
>>15949089 >>15949415
>>15949516 >>15949537
>>15949618 >>15949644
>>15949678 >>15949684
>>15949705 >>15949713
>>15949879 >>15949981
>>15950128 >>15950189
>>15950319 >>15951046
>>15951280 >>15951382
>>15951424 >>15951428
>>15951460 >>15951469
>>15951475 >>15951493
>>15951494 >>15951497
>>15951504 >>15951505
>>15951525 >>15951534
>>15951541 >>15951549
>>15951558 >>15951581
>>15951589 >>15951609
>>15951632 >>15951655
>>15951664 >>15951668
>>15951669 >>15951677
>>15951686 >>15951696
>>15951796 >>15951808
>>15951820 >>15951850
>>15951852 >>15951862
>>15951876 >>15951880
>>15951927 >>15951948
>>15952002 >>15952054
>>15952055 >>15952073
>>15952080 >>15952137
>>15952141 >>15952161
hi everyone
hi
so, i just wanted to let all of you know that i did not read any of this text and i don't know what this thread is about, but i'm never ever selling

thank you

Alright lads, it's been fun but I've got to go. If nothing else read some theory from your political opposition it's one of the best ways to learn and challenge yourselves. And don't read the theory people on your side of the political spectrum think the other side reads, actually go ask them and read what they read.

>>15952198
Start with small businesses then. Mow lawns, powerwash some vents. Just stop whining. You couldn't handle operating a large company anyway with no experience running anything even if you were handed millions of dollars.

>>15951669
The problem is you are looking at it through a viewpoint of your labor in terms of your paycheck and the direct taxes of that paycheck only, and that is what this picture does as well except then we have the argument of surplus labor, a very ethereal and washy label that necessitates us to include your total value throughout your job. So taxes are not more then 100% of paycheck, the entirely circle represents value added directly by your labor, taxes would take the largest area of that value up, then your direct pay from that value, and then your surplus profit that goes to your owner last and smallest.

Really this picture would be best represented as a pie graph, but that would necessitate actual data to be added to these labels which would kill the artists talking points since the numbers to make this chart a reality would kill the premesis. This picture is just low quality communist propoganda really.

>>15948196
Also according to this image surplus value is GREATER than income. This would imply that for every 50k a wagie makes, there is MORE than an additional 50k siphoned off by the rich. This is preposterous, we'd be surrounded by trillionaires. What is more likely is that your labour is worth 50k and 5% of that goes into the pockets of your overlords, who by the nature of large scale economies, become billionaires.

>>15953686
>he doesn't know they've got us surrounded

All the commie retards clippers now make 10 an hour less after weed legalization in CA. Used to clip a garbage bag of buds for basically 20-30 an hour while smoking. Now they rush to make 10-15.

>>15948306
All these bootlickers crying kek. Managers are jews

>>15952198
>Anyone who thinks free market capitalism works is a fucking idiot or doesn't want to admit they inherited their money and don't want anyone getting a fair shot in a world they know they aren't equipped to compete in.
The current system is not Free Market Capitalism.
This is one of the biggest problems. What we have gets called Free Market Capitalism, and a whole generation of fucktards is being raised in this environment, thinking the solution is to push further into socialism.

>>15951686
Its not an argument because there is nothing to debate because you are arguing in bad faith like every communist that has ever existed.

>>15951280
Based

>>15951541
It just made a perfect anti-immigrant point.
-"Dont come here your stealing"

>>15951280
Confirmed retard

>>15948104
Whoever made that image forgot to include “inflation” which, historically speaking, steals more from you over your lifespan than every other category in that infographic combined.

Like rod sterling said, "This is not a new world—it is simply an extension of what began in the old one...."
Mercantilism with a fucked hierarchy.