/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>15824696
what is this income tax?

>>15824709
Wealth tax. Ie stocks and other non-liquid assets

>>15824709
This. Is it actually 0% for anyone making less than 32M?

>>15824696
It wouldn’t it would just mean more money would be reinvested into the economy to avoid taxation it’s actually a great plan to stimulate the economy Bernie is right

It probably would. I don’t think much could be done to save us anyway at this point

>>15824719
Wealth, not income

>>15824696
Why is this going up in value the more people have?

What does it matter? Bernie's campaign is at the end of its lifespan.

>>15824717
>You get 8% of whatever you don't have in fiat taken away from you
>8% of your other assets get taken and liquidated
>bonds currently at 1.5%
>sideways market
lmao does this dumb commie faggot not understand the basics of economic incentives?

>>15824791
I'm just thinking of it from the "majority shareholder" perspective and how much it would destroy the economy.

Own 51% of a 100M company? Say goodbye to that immediately.

>>15824791
So you're saying you don't want to be a billionaire because you would get taxed a bit? Fucking retard, kys.

>oh no I'll only be able to buy 19 yachts this year instead of 20!

>>15824810
That's not the game shortsighted communists should be worried about. Ambitious people giving up or leaving fucks over your revolution over decades.

What fucks you over immediately is all the offshoring of wealth before the ink even dries in the oval office.

>>15824821
Tell me one yacht dealership you can directly pay with stocks and real estate.

>>15824831
What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

>>15824810
No you idiot he's saying any billionaire no longer wants to be an American. Say goodbye to your existing tax revenue as well as your businesses. USA is the #1 in medical research and software development, two of the biggest fields on the planet. Implement this policy and we will not be, I'm talking within 4 years of enactment. They will simply leave.

>>15824696
Richfags get qualified dividends & loans when they want to buy something, personal income is for wagies only.

This literally does nothing.

>>15824844
That's considered wealth. This is a wealth tax, on top of the income tax. People have to sell their assets to pay the wealth tax every year until they've lost enough to not qualify for it.

>>15824855
No one needs that much wealth.

>>15824696
The taxes will eventually be pushed onto the middle class and be cut from the upper class. It happens everytime.

>>15824853
Again this is a WEALTH tax not an INCOME tax. It's a tax on anyone for owning crypto/real estate/stocks/fiat up to that amount. If you own 51% of a business and that business is worth $200m, then you "own" you will have to pay $1,179,000 to bernie. Not for making money, but because you own something worth money. This is on top of the income tax. You will have to sell your shares of the company to pay this and you will not be the owner of the company anymore. Everyone is going to leave the USA.

>>15824860
No one "needs" to farm your food or develop your infrastructure or maintain your electricity connections, no one "needs" to invent anything new, ever, but people do it because there is incentive.

>>15824873
There is still an incentive to gather wealth.

>>15824809
Not necessarily. But they would have to pay copius amounts in tax to simply exist.

>>15824868
Exactly.

And the number of companies worth 50-100M is HUGE. And their owners are probably people who you run into at the supermarket. They are not the enemy, but to Bernie and Warren they are

>>15824878
There is a much bigger incentive to simply leave. You do not control the planet (despite your wishes). When you offer a worse deal to the people who advance your society, they advance someone else's society.

So many beyond retarded commie niggers in this thread

>>15824884
Right, but a lot of people simply don't have those funds or assets available other than their shares in their companies.

Also you fags should all remember that the government already has a wealth tax. It's called inflation/seigniorage and it brings in hundreds of billions of dollars a year.

>>15824899
Yeah. Imagine fucking bezo doing his taxes. Gooooodbye shares

>>15824851
Though I don't think it's a good policy, it seems highly unlikely that they would be so extremely tax averse that what's proposed would entice them to leave.

>>15824905
Something like 1.5% of Bezos' wealth is liquid.

Yeah. Goodbye Amazon shares.

>>15824916
Under Comrade Bernie that'd be 8% of Amazon liquidated per year.

I get a feeling that might tank the share price.

>>15824913
Look up the wealth tax in France. It's absolutely not a good policy.

>>15824913
They're not taxed once for owning stuff, they're taxed EVERY YEAR.

>Hey Elon, give me about 5% of your net worth every single year.
On what warped reality would he not leave to China or Russia or literally anywhere that does not do that?

>>15824926
Christ, can you imagine the second-order effects? All the bankrupt Boomers and flailing pension funds? Then it gets worse when they *stop* selling the stock. Congress pulls a Blackrock or Vanguard, becoming the top shareholder of every Fortune 500.

>>15824954
Exactly. It wouldn't stop till the government has control of every company worth anything.

>>15824696
because my economy is shitcoins and shitcoin accessories. this would be the biggest boon for my economy in its entire history

>>15824722
I agree. It seems the lower classes in my 'great' country are far moar consumerist than the upper classes. Obviously the ratio per tax bracket plays a huge difference in how much overall money is spent by each. Ultimately, I think, Sanders' system would funnel in moar money into our service economy as his plan gives moar moneys to the people who spend it almost immediately.

>>15824851
Where will they go? America is still the best country. Name a better country with lower tax rates. You can't.

>>15825014
Perhaps a certain nation between Lebanon and Egypt.

>>15824901
Exactly and warrens plan would be to simply put inflation on the non fiat assers of the ultra rich.

>>15825042
Early on in political thinking, everyone should realize how often the government will actually abandon a source of revenue.

>>15824810
Fuck you dumb commie cunt

>>15825014
LOL that's why communism and socialism fail - they need to build a wall to keep people in or else they'll just leave and take their shit elsewhere.

"Oh, you want to tax me and take millions of dollars off of me to pay fo' mo' programz? K, I'll see ya later then..."

Yeah it sucks, but the rich always leave

>>15824868
Explain why we shouldn't just put a wealth tax on the ultra poor and distribute it to the ultra rich? The richest business owners in the world would all flock to the US to take advantage of our great tax plan and society would flourish.... right? You sound like a fucking idiot.

both suck. taxation is theft. they just print more money.

>>15825068
Countries do fare better with a smarter, wealthier citizenry focused on long term goals. That's why you people always bitch about "brain drain".

The easiest example for a retarded communist to understand is probably the two Koreas from like 1960 onward.

>>15825074
How will society pave roads, who will build public schools, who will run the fire department or enforce laws?

Ironically, Trump's wealth tax is a better idea. It would be a one-time thing.

https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/11/09/trump.rich/index.html

I'm a Bernie bro for Medicare for All, but a wealth tax is pretty obviously a bad idea. Other countries have tried it and had to get rid of it once the rich started fleeing. Even if one stood, it would eventually be applied to the middle class -- the income tax was originally for the rich.

Anyway, it would never pass, and would never hold up if it did -- there are serious constitutional questions, and a conservative Supreme Court would most likely never let it stand unless it was a Constitutional Amendment.

Red meat for the base. The Wall for the left.

>>15825094
Toll roads are better than poorfag roads, in my experience. Same with private/charter versus public/union schools.

Fire and police services would pair just fine with homeowner/CRE and health insurance policies.

>>15825074

And as this anon points out, we already have a wealth tax of 2% a year -- it's called inflation.

>>15824927
Wasn't I clear enough that I DON'T think it's a good policy?

>>15824928
Yes they're taxed every year. But people that rich are generally very good at making money, so I doubt they'd regard it as a sufficient reason to leave the country.

>>15824696
Who cares Franklin D Roosevelt considered the greatest president of all time put tax rate at 68% and above for the richest. This helped reduced the income inequality in America and boosted the US economy: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/31/ocasio-cortezs-percent-tax-rate-not-so-radical/

>>15825121
2.75%. It gets higher in depressions.

>>15825064

oh yeah, up and leave for the nations where their wealth will eventually be stolen entirely through corrupt government/organized crime shenanigans, or to european countries where their wealth will be taxed in other ways, and they wont have a sizeable American market to make up the difference.

Yeah, the ultra rich will be soooo much better off up and leaving over a small increase in taxes LMAO

>>15824722
You're not only an idiot but have no idea what the wealth tax is.

>>15824696
>>15824791
>>15824809
>>15824926
>>15824928
>>15824962
Sounds to me like this would make all assets that are easily monitored and regulated by the US to crash (stocks, real estate).

And everyone jump ship into something they can't touch (Bitcoin).
*rubs palms*

They can try other assets like gold (actual gold, not paper gold which suffers from the same problem), but that's insanely risky, takes only a search warrant to lose it, pic related.

>>15824860
I do. I have a condition you see. Dr. Noseberg told me so.

>>15825125
8%? You can probably get that on a good year in the market, and you're assuming their entire network is in the same high yield assets.

>>15824696
what do the rich fucks get out of that? they simply won't allow this.
It's almost like they're jobbing to trump. It will still be funny when he wins again.

>>15825142
that's a tax on income, not asset value.

>>15825068
Would also be bad. The important things is not rich vs poor but productive vs unproductive. And productive people are fucked if you tax em like this, all just to buy the vote of unproductive envious and egoistic idiots.

>>15826093
Yup only productive people have more than 50mill in net worth. All of society would crumble if this super fucking small category of people get a 2%(or more) wealth tax.

ITT: A bunch of poor retards who will never ever have to deal with any of this.

>>15824696
It forces the reinvestment of wealth back into the economy either by incentivizing actual investment by owners or by the government reinvesting through spending as wages for public sector employees.

Either way it lowers wealth inequality and does a little bit, although still not much, to fight financialization. Only economic benefits OP

>>15824809
Yeah, but who the fuck owns a full company anymore. Everything is held by joint stockholders and hedgefunds which, as corporate entities, would be excluded from an individual wealth tax.

>>15825152
Theyd all 'move' to tax havens like Switzerland and Monaco. But if you think rich people actually need to live where their passport is from you're a brainlet. It just means that the us wont be able to tax them. They could still lend large parts of their lives living in the US as foreigners.

>>15824696
>You have 20 seconds to tell me how this wouldn't completely ruin the economy
How would it? What does it matter if some obscenely rich people lose what is to them pocket change?

>>15824851
>They will simply leave.
>>15824868
>Everyone is going to leave the USA.
You sound like an idiot. Nobody is going to leave

It makes sense. The more money you have the better you are at hiring people to hide it, but if you are dumb and rich then you get stung and pay more.
It will all even out between people too dumb to make more money, too dumb to hold onto lots of money and those who are smart and rich to keep it that way deservedly.

>>15824696
this seems pretty retarded
I can understand taxing income but taxing based on wealth where most of this shit might be in illiquid assets? Seems like a good way to fuck up the stock market and real estate

>>15824696

Relax. These people won't get it through. You think the President of the United States has real power? Think again.

You think Amazon, Google, Facebook and so on are going to allow them to win? They'll pull the plug on Warren and Sanders. The corporate juggernaut will roll right over them. Anyone who tries to raise taxes will be squashed into paste.

Trump's only in power because he lowered taxes. Any gaffe he makes is irrelevant, he respects the system. These clowns will be pulverised if they try anything.

>>15826254
The rich flee the country = less taxes collected.

Why are there so many economically illiterate people in this thread?
Is this the power of the bitcoin shills that inhabit /biz/?

>>15824696
It would

>>15826401
The rich people that would flee the country over something like this is probably already paying no taxes at all by exploiting every loophole there is.

The day that is pushed through every billionare etc will just buy a caribbean citizenship and say bye bye to the US. Not that the establishment would ever let it happen in the first place.

>>15825142
>Washington Post
>AOC
Why are you on this board?

>>15824791
>>You get 8% of whatever you don't have in fiat taken away from you
>>8% of your other assets get taken and liquidated
>>bonds currently at 1.5%
>>sideways market

>lmao does this dumb commie faggot not understand the basics of economic incentives?

he's a commie so no. also i presume that it would be 8% every year too which would just decimate the billionaires wealth and the economy along with it - and usher in his commie utopia in under 10 years.

>>15824913

That's exactly what happened in the Netherlands, Sweden, Germany etc. I am not a billionaire so I just hide my money everywhere I can. Tax niggers can go rob someone else of their properties. They aren't getting my organs and money, which the state has both laid claim to.

>>15824696
NOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST TAX MILLIONAIRES BECAUSE THEN WE WOULD STARVE TO DEATH LIKE THE SOVIET UNION

>>15826181

The public sector is a waste, an endless black hole of lost potential and squandered resources. Just call it what it is, funneling money to low iq authoritarians.

>>15826536
Millionaires are already extremely heavily taxed. Learn to read, and do not get so easily swayed by emotional arguments. You will thank me later.

>>15826462
I also remember /biz/ being a fully capitalist board before 2016. Not sure why there are so many Reddit socialist cucks on a board named "Business and Finance"

>>15824696
burden of proof is on you to show how it would ruin the economy, you fallacious faggot.
also, please start by defining what the economy is, so at least we're on the same page.
Chicken little poofters like yourself make this appeal to "the economy" the same way christ cucks make an appeal to "the Lord."

While, I'm waiting for your well research position, I will posit that whatever "the economy" is, it, and it's indices, shouldn't be put as a higher priority than the well-being of the citizenry and their ability to participate in democracy.

>>15826462
its just glowinthedarkies trying to influence how we think. thankfully anyone who isnt a complete retard can see past that.

>>15824791
>>15824809
>>15826508
You're already paying a 2% annual wealth tax you stupid fucking goyim, it's called inflation. Enjoy sucking off billionaires.

it would unironically do nothing. anyone at the >$32M wealth level has the means to optimize their assets through international holdings and the like
this is a pure political move to cater to the antirich brainlets with no actual consequence

>>15825152
They'll move to anywhere where tax is lower lol....how dumb are you?

>>15826584
>christ cucks
You just outted yourself as a redditor

>all this capital flight boogeymanning
You fundamentally don't understand why this is a wealth tax do you?
It doesn't matter where the money is, if it's valuation is under someone's custody, it will be subject to tax.
You don't know what capital controls are either, right?
We've previously lived in a time where free movement of capital wasn't taken for granted.
And now we live in a time of digital records on everything.
All it will take is an IRS with actual teeth, and a congress that wants to publicize the prosecution of tax dodgers.

>>15826651
>would rather make ludicrous ad homs than address the points
Man, I remember when biz was a board for rational discussion, instead of a place for zoomers to practice their edgy koch brothers endorsed memeing.

poorfags aren't any more responsible with their money than richfags, they waste it all on takeout cigarettes and lottery tickets
the only solution to society is proeugenic technocracy. only through innovation can we afford high quality of life for all citizens, and only through selective breeding of healthy attractive and intelligent people can we find the empathy to provide it to them

>>15824709
Thieft

>>15826657
Yeah mate I want to live in a society where the political class have the undisputed right to assfuck any segment of society that have any power rivaling theirs so we can steal more money to fight more wars, meanwhile if I want to drive on the highway by my house I have to pay tolls because "lol we don't have enough taxes"

Personally, I think capital flight is a smaller issue compared to what they will have to do in order to extract their capital in the first place, which is liquidate their stocks and real estate in the US.

Such huge net worths liquidating their assets will most certainly trigger the pop of the everything bubble.

>>15826695
>I remember when biz was a board
No you don't, you're an obvious redditfag refugee from 2017. 99% of /biz/fags were capitalist / pro-business before the invasion. Go to the archive and see economic discussion threads pre-2016

>>15826712
>capitalism literally evolving into nazism

>>15826721
you fucking what m8? That drivel is hardly coherent, but even if it was, I think you're trying to describe the world that the neocons are creating.
So what's your point?

>>15826750
Baahaha.
Not only are you making that up, but it's more baseless adhoms and you still can't address the points.
kthxbai

Nobody needs more than 32 million anyway. If you think you do your brain is fried to shit

>>15826783
>Not only are you making that up
Ok what year did you come to /biz/ then?

>>15826783
nazis were nationalists, eugenics and technocracy is meritocratic and is mutualistic with globalism

>>15826594

you don't understand how the economy works you mouthbreathing spastic.

>>15826543
public sector is an endless black hole because the funds end up in the pockets of the rich, whom are know better taxed. More circulation of currency is better for everyone.

>>15826803
Why do you have an iPhone on your desk then? You could have used that money to save 1000 starving African families. Nobody "needs" and iPhone

>taxing billionaires is gommunism
lmfao

>>15826803
I can imagine how's my lifestyle would've bloated at that point though.

Like first having an army of bodyguards... ever gotten into a fight with a rando? I'd say having the security is worth it if not necessary. Have several men-in-black at a distance following you like some politician.

Then probably have a yacht where I'd chill with like 5-10 10/10 hookers while we all get high and bang nonstop.

Personal plane or helicopter would be nice, probably both. Choppers to skip traffic (I'd just have a helipad on top of all the buildings I own), and a luxury plane I can hold parties on.

etc

What? You expect someone with over $32 million to live a normal lifestyle? Live in a 3 bedroom house, buy groceries and fall in line at the checkout?

>>15824719
>making less

>>15826808
>still going into the weeds, on some true scotsman hunt, instead of addressing the points
>the absolute state of bizlets.
this is an anonymous croatian flyfishing imageboard for a reason, my dude.

>>15824696
Threads like this where people call for blatant theft make me lose all compassion for the bottom 99% of people.

>>15824860
jesus fuck you are stupid. your kind are perhaps the most potentially destructive onthe planet to the well being and future of human kind. the peoplewiththe capability to succeed in life and produce truly great things will leave the country and never NEVER come back. the us will become the next venezuela.

>>15826875
They're poor for a reason

>>15826875
People advocate for blanket theft regularly. Our species is still incredibly savage and immoral. Violence is their solution to almost every problem.

>>15824696
What are you on about? economy is fucked anyway, OP
go back to /pol/

>>15826875
Nice try but rich people are reptilians with no compassion in the first place.

>>15826888
Where are they all gonna go? China? Russia? The EU? Anywhere else is already more socialist than the US lmao

>>15826832
Amazing that you retards think a smartphone is some luxury like it's 2006

>>15824696
Fix income tax and close all the loopholes. What people do with their wealth after they pay income tax is their own choice, they should not be punished for being successful.

>>15826951
Amazing that you think someone shouldn't have $32 million dollars of net worth.

>>15825998
Those who are very good at making money can get a lot more than 8% in a good year.

>>15826657
>It doesn't matter where the money is
Actually it does matter

>And it's indices, shouldn't be put as a higher priority than the well-being of the citizenry
Jeff Bezos has contributed 1000x to the well being of any US citizen compared the what the US govt could accomplish. If you believe the government should focus the well-being of it's citizenry then you'd be against the wealth tax (and for less taxes on the entire population)

>please start by defining what the economy is
I am pretty sure OP means the stock market, bond market, real estate market, healthcare, e-commerce.... Every industry would be affected by this wealth tax. Not hard to understand what OP is implying

>>15824696
Because people don't quit high-status jobs because they're getting taxed slightly more, idiot.
>>15824851
Just like billionaires prefer to live in low-tax red states over coastal cities, right? DUMB CUNT

>>15827086
The problem here is that people with measly upper class incomes (libertarians) are projecting their greedy, petty worldview over people who are actually financially secure

>>15826910
If you secretly despise wealth, it will elude you.

>>15826929
At this point the US is a lot more socialist than many countries. Some people already paying 37% federal, and with state + other taxes its probably almost 50% for some. Ppl with $100 million net worth could easily go to Hong kong, Singapore, or some random island and keep living enjoyable lifestyle.

i think the government should take everyones money and seize everyons asset. Walmart Americans are too dumb to manage themselves, let our overlords manage us. the government would spend the money fairly and on issues that actually matter, not on gambling at casinos and on mountain dew and ford trucks.

>>15827135
>the government would spend the money fairly and on issues that actually matter

Is this satire?

>>15825014
Deluded.
USA taxes are already high and quality of life is increasingly subpar, there are is half a dozen of countries in Europe where they would just move, they would still employ people in burgerland but all the actual capital would have moved oversea.

The result would be a huge fiscal deficit coupled with a fall in domestic capital.
The real solution is to cut taxes, reduce spending and move away from the debt based economy.

>>15827086
>"Slightly more"
2% a year after 15yrs for someone worth $100million would cause then to lose $30 million. I am pretty sure that is not just "slightly more".

>over people who are actually financially secure
People who have upper class incomes are projecting onto people who are financially secure. So themselves?

>>15826814
>the economy works because Jeff Bezos has his own personal money press backed by highly speculation-prone speculation assets

>>15827214
oops meant upper middle
>I am pretty sure that is not just "slightly more".
What would you realistically do in that position? Stop working? Do slightly less overtime?

>>15827065
>all this Koch Brothers drivel
Please, next time address the points instead of stating dogma.

>Actually it does matter
Feel free expand on your meaningless quip.
Tax dodging is tax dodging, no matter where you are.

>Jeff Bezos has contributed 1000x to the well being of any US citizen
Which still doesn't entitle him to 100,000 times the net worth of the average american, even under your own fabricated valuation scheme.
But if you'd like to go a step further in good faith, and provide a rational on why Jeff's contributions are so valuable, be my guest. Bonus points if you can prove that Jeff singlehandedly is the only one who could have done it, and doesn't have any onus to the people and institutions who've built the infrastructure his business thrives on. Please also demonstrate that Amazon could have only been built by Jeff alone, and that no one else, also born into the right time and right place, wouldn't have been put under the social and market forces to create a similar business. If you could do that, you will remove my belief that the US doesn't have a system of Casino Capitalism and that success is based on merit, not luck.

>I am pretty sure OP means the stock market, bond market, real estate market, healthcare, e-commerce.... Every industry would be affected by this wealth tax. Not hard to understand what OP is implying
Pretty big assumption there, retard.
You'll need to show why anyone should give a shit about the stock market's crazy number system as long as I have food on the table, a warm house, purposeful work, some free time, and a representative democracy.
Check out Goodhart's Law.

>>15827214
30 million over 15 years is nothing to someone who has 100 million when after 15 years that 100 million will be worth 400 million.

This tax is trying to prevent pic related from happening. It's a good thing.

>>15827182
>>15827113
Wow, you guys have never looked at the tax structures of other countries have you?

>overtly suggesting a policy of austerity
yeah, look how that worked out in Britain.

>>15827252
Well if I assume my $100million net worth is comprised of ownership in a few businesses/ other US assets I would try really hard to not pay the 2%. I guess I would try to assemble team of lawyers and advisors to find how to not pay 2%. If I had no choice but to move or pay2% Iwould probably move to Caymans for a few years until sitatuation becomes more favorable in U.S. Go all into cash or something.

What would you do if faced with 2% wealth tax and you only had $100million and not billions?

>>15824696
That's not how the burden of proof works, OP. You have to tell me how it would.

>>15827343
you're not concerned that your funds will be frozen by the time you get to the caymans?
you'd literally risk being jailed for tax dodging over a measly 2million bucks, when you still have enough to live the rest of your life in leisure?
Both Warren and Sanders are proposing increased regulations on sending money abroad, and banks are usually pretty keen to comply so that they can keep their licenses and insurances.

>>15824892
This is laughable you glo fiend.
Have you ever traveled?

>>15824916
And this is a good thing.

>>15824916
And this is a good thing.>>15825094
Blockchain based services paid out for actual work instead of just being "ready to serve(tickets)" and an uber based replacement with a minimum response time to meet or face penalty. Enforced city wide and paid thru local taxes.
There you go, fuck you

>>15826803
This is just like the income tax. When they introduced it, it applied to only a few, but now it applies to everyone. Pretty soon wealth taxes will apply to everyone, either through inflation or by lowering the amount of wealth required.

>>15827472
There are countries that don't tax you to dead and have banking secrete. You should kys commie, because as soon as such a bullshit is implemented (which will never happen) Switzerland, Monaco, Luxembourg, Aruba, British Virgin Islands....and others will see an increase of capital inflow, while the US has not enough anymore to fund section 8 housing

>>15824696
It will.

>>15827408
Why should he be concerned? Nothing he intends to do is illegal. Are you implying sanders will make it illegal to move to other countries?

>>15827521
Anyone with a functional brain sees this coming, but the number of people with a functional brain is very small.

They won't be happy until it's completely impossible to exist without working.

>>15827532
Switzerland already has a wealth tax of two percent, so it won’t be there.

>>15826557
Yea like 4% you fucking hook nose.

>>15827300
The picture related happened because of fiat money and quantitative easing, money is progressively aspired to the top in store of value assets.

>>15827548
depends on the Canton. btw, who said somebody whill have his eggs all in one basket. End result will be that the US will see a capital flight worse than China, which will leave all public funded minority programs with their pants down.

>>15826854
Yes or be fined 60% of income. You will find out soon whether paying for moving was the better decision.

>>15827113
Said like an especially stupid glowniggy

>>15827543
I don't think many upper class people are willing to give up their entire social life and lose their face to dodge some taxes. Imagine how embarrassing it would be to admit to something like that in a social setting. No good schools, interesting people, or culture there either. And to get your wife (who is most likely a high earner as well) and kids to go along with that? Not worth even 10 million.

>>15826181
this is the best answer so far. I'm not going to let my billion dollars sit in the bank and acquire barely any interest, I'm going to try to start a company with it to increase my revenue. The only way to beat out the wealth tax will be to increase revenue. If you can't make 5% with a billion dollars you don't deserve to have those dollars.

>>15827543
>being this willfully retarded
>conflating capital controls with freedom of movement
those squillionares can live wherever they want, but as long as their funds are in the US and have access to US markets, they can and will be taxed under US law.
transferring the substantial sums of money out of an institution that's under US jurisdiction will be hit with a heavy fee.
It's all in their white papers.

>>15827616
These Keynesian assumptions have led to such a stable non-turbulent economy in the last 50 years. Lets just keep trying them on grander scales. lol!

Implementing this would simply prompt the rich to leave the US and live with their wealth in tax havens.

>>15827607
You are a retarded poorfag
They don't have to give up on their live style, just become more creative in distributing their wealth, and no, not distributing it to the FEDs to have your ebts financed. Stay poor, and stay deluded, the dnc candidates stand no chance in 2020 to implement such a retardation

>>15827543
Like I mentioned previously, these people in most cases are not even willing to move to a red state.

>>15827182
Then tax business owners who live over sea another +20%. Enact laws that lock their pricing of goods for a year, next year when they reprice their goods legally to match the tax(effectively passing the cost on to the consumer) the consumer now knows that any product that jumps in price is unpatriotic and parasitic. Any business that leaves can be taxed out of our market. Maybe even a federal sticker of transparency to show where the profits flow and to how many people so we the people know who were helping and who were fucking. Block chain could help make happen.

>>15827636
He specifically mentioned moving to Cayman Islands.
>Stay poor, and stay deluded, the dnc candidates stand no chance in 2020 to implement such a retardation
Only middle class people talk like this, you're not rich.

>>15827581
>implying China's capital flight is a problem
>implying it's not a strategy
>implying more is "worse"
they are undermining capitalism in the rest of the world on purpose you chucklefuck.
It destabilizes all those other countries that have strong property rights laws and slow democratic systems.

>>15827652
Meaning the "lul stay poor poorfag im driving a fucking lambo coke n bitches" attitude, not the political assessment

>>15827652
On paper I'm even poor
>muah middle class boogey man
There is no middle class idiot, there are only clever lads and not so clever lads. So take your class warfare bullshit and immigrate to china

>>15827634
>jumping into the conversation after 160 posts, just to state something that's already been said and disproved
I'm glad you guys aren't like real financial managers.

>>15827661
>China capital flight is not a problem
who let reddit in.
Shu Shu

>>15824696

For every $50 paid in wealth tax, there will be one less Juan mowing grass, collecting garbage, delivering tacos, etc. Service industries who service all these wealthy businesses will be forced to lower their prices - and their labor - to remain competitive.

A wealth tax is simply an obfuscated tax on the poor.

>>15827621
You sound bitter, like maybe you’re hoping to see the “squillonaires” suffer more than anything else.

If it’s really going to be as draconian as you are saying, there will be massive capital flight before this is passed into law. Having capital has no meaning if somebody else controls it, and not being able to move the capital is a major restriction.

>>15827666
I'm not trying to instill class hatred, simply trying to make the case that usually people with more than enough money and status stop thinking like people whose status, marriage, and social life is fundamentally tied to their financial performance.

>>15827282
Well if you want to go up to Jeff Bezos and tell him that he luckily stumbled into his $100B net worth (before divorce) be my guest. Luck is not quanitfyable, but there are very few people on this planet who could have had vision and turned amazon into what is is today.

>why Jeff's contributions are so valuable
-This is pretty self explanatory. He pioneered the $2.4 trillion e-commerce industry. His grandeur vision and ingenius entrepreneurship brought amazo to where it is today. I hope you realize 98% of Jeff bezos net worth is comprised of his 16% amazon stock (before divorce). Only 2% of his assets of are liquid which he can actually enjoy. When you talk about a wealth tax on Jeff bezos, you are really talking about taxing amazon 2% a year. This money could either stay at Amazon building the future and providing free shipping to millions around the world... or going to the worst allocator of money in human history the US govt.

>and doesn't have any onus to the people and institutions who've built the infrastructure his business thrives
Amazon has given a paycheck to hundreds of thousands of people at the end of every week for years now. Those employees have families who are able to eat and buy things because of Jeff Bezos. Amazon contributed the livehood of millions of people through wages alone at this point.

>Koch brothers
Funny you keep mentioning them. I met the son of of the Koch brothers at a ski resort in Colorado. Pretty nice guy.

>Casino Capitalism
Capitalism itself is the least "casino" system that exists. The only way one can become rich is by providing value to society by organizing land, labor, and capital. Yes I agree that luck always has to be involved to some extent. However, success has never equated to raw IQ. It is due to factors such as persistence / creativity / worth ethic.

>>15827616
>you don't deserve to have those dollars
Politicians say shit like this and then think nobody would emigrate, lol.

>>15827647
This kind of wealth expropriation has destroyed the Venezuelan economy. It will do the same here. Why do you want it so much? Is hurting rich people really worth it?

>>15827705
>EAT DA RICH
>I-I don't want to instigate class hatred
>I just want there money because I'm a lazy uncreative faggot
Fuck off marxist and kys, you are not worth my time with your shame and guilt narrative

>>15827715
>Is hurting rich people really worth it?

Yeah it's hilarious

>>15827725
I literally not once advocated a policy in this thread. Absolute state of you.

>>15827698
>you sound bitter
wow, nice one, after all the previously misanthropic posts in this thread, you really picked a prescient point to make.

>>15827681
Capital flight is only a problem in a country where the capitalists are in control.
The fact that you're applying capitalist ideals to the chinese shows you have no idea how politics or the economy works.

>>15827725
And most of those creative, educated, and rich individuals actually tend to be in support of these kinds of left-of-center reforms.

>>15824696
It will redistribute wealth from people who hoard to people who spend

>>15827408
>measly 2million bucks
$30 million after 15years. Anyone with that high of a net worth is thinking 30yrs into the future.

>>15827621
>will be hit with a heavy fee.
Still better than wealth tax for many. It will probably increase past 2% with Bernie / Warren so might as well try to get out before

>>15827690
Wealth tax is tax on value that is not moving in the economy so no, it won't affect anybody else more than redistribution of wealth which, obviously, it's not working as they are planning to do it.
When the income tax doesn't work the wealth tax comes in.

>>15827753
>l-look at my polls
>I-it says college educated Boomers are okay with it
You are such an idiot, you remind me of our socialist who are on the best way to fall below 10% but still state that da intellogent people vote for them. lmao, kys marxist

>>15827715
>This kind of wealth expropriation has destroyed the Venezuelan economy. It will do the same here.
>Comparing US with Venezuela
>My sides

>>15827647
Why would you want to tax any business more? For what reason?

>>15824926
Tanking the share price is great for new investors (generally younger people). Do you think his shares will go up in smoke? The price will eventually stabilize as the policy gets priced in.

>>15827806
Do you think that most upper class people are like John McAfee? Do they read Hans-Hermann Hoppe? You're being so incoherent, most intelligent and well-off people indeed are liberals by any metric.

>>15827811
To curb tax-avoidance for one. Do you not think that's a good idea? Or is it the method you've got an issue with?

>>15827819
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
below 10%, socialist parties altogether don't manage to get 30% so another round of HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>15827842
Yikes

>>15827846
>>>/r/eddit

>>15827819
99.9999% of people with a +$8 million net worth are on the opposite side of liberal on the political spectrum. Are you trying to tell me that someone with a $10 million net worth is going to vote for Bernie over Trump?

>>15826803
fuck you i need 32M

lay down and die bitch

>>15827874
he tries to tell you that those liberal college professors, including econ professors who talk shit about economy all day and have on average 40k/year income and an ass load of unrepayable debt are pro socialism, because they are uncreative lazy involuntary poorfags

>>15826181
what about derivatives?
just by holding on to a derivative you are actually investing back to the economy, but your investment still gets BTFO by the jewish kike's laws
a thing i've noticed with many of your kind is that you legitimately believe that the rich just keep their entire wealth locked up somewhere with no benefit to society. well good luck living in an ecosystem where every loaded individual starts taking ridiculous risks (incentivizing actual investment LOL) to make up for the ~5% that their net worth suffers every year thanks to the goy tax
>this kills a commie

>>15827890
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBZUz4C6kqk

>>15827708
>self explanatory
and yet, you've only proceeded to justify the system on terms that the system has generated, or in vague subjective terms. Protip: he hasn't magically created free shipping as a glorious human right. He has merely displaced the costs as an externality. For you to even bring that up shows how deeply steeped you are in ideology. That, and your inability to realize your own circular reasoning is disturbing.

>paycheck to hundreds of thousands
Your argument mirrors what one might say about a slave driver. Perhaps he's the nicest slave driver in the bunch, and produces the most tobacco and cotton, and even gives his slaves some of it back for their own personal use.
I can argue that Jeff's underpaid hundreds of thousands of people, which is exactly how he's had so much extra dosh left in his pockets. Each employ has generated a certain amount of value with their labor, and, especially under capitalist ideals, are entitled to the benefits from the sweat of their brow.
Just because they've been able to live out a measly life with a fraction of the benefits of their labor is inherently unjust.
Here you need to either admit that capitalism is inherently self-contradictory under it's own logic, it's logic is merely a smoke and mirror show for other ends, or that the quantification of value you're trying to hinge your argument on is inherently impossible.
But this is all besides the point, because my argument isn't about justice, it's that clearly Jeff isn't a good custodian of that much wealth because, in all his "endless brilliance" what he's provided for the world is "free shipping." He should have the shit taxed out of him so that others can succeed where he has failed.

>I met the son
You're proving my point that you're a sycophant.

>Capitalism itself is the least "casino" system that exists.
it sounds like we're starting to agree on some goals then, but why would you willingly argue against making capitalism less of a casino if we can?

>>15827912
>slave analogy
dumb fucking democrat redditor fuck off back to /pol/ with your baits or get cancer

>>15827902
Derivatives drive economic growth even less than actually owning an asset outright. At least in the latter case the price rises for all shareholders (given a long position). You're confusing trading paper (which I love, as I do it every day btw) with real economic growth

>>15826888
>literally muh venezuela

>>15827797
>Wealth tax is tax on value that is not moving in the economy so no
Well if that was the case than we would not need to tax any of these high net worth individuals at all since most of their net worth is moving in the economy. If you look Musk, Walton's, or anyone on the Forbes billionaires list most of their money is in stock ownership in their own companies. That money is literally being to run mutlibillion dollar business. I don't think there is a single person with $100MM who has all of his money in cash sitting under a mattress somewhere.

>>15824696
Doesn't matter. Economy's already ruined.

>>15825152
I've traveled all over the world and I know first hand that shit is false. They won't just take your wealth for being foreigners. Some low life might try to scam you but it's really easy to tell if you have half a brain.
There are lots of great places that the rich moves to already. Thailand, Panama, Costa Rica are some places that actually have a way for rich person to get a pernament residency just for "investing" in their country.

>>15827711
money of the rich already is out of the US. the person hardly matters. the everyday casual spending of rich people fuels absolutely nothing.

>>15827925
well, go forth and prove that capitalism is beholden to justice, or is itself logically consistent, or get the fuck out of here with your shitty bants.

>>15824696
It would be great short-term but disastrous long-term. Our biggest problem is government waste so giving them more money to waste is a terrible solution. The problem is no one will vote for short-term discomfort/long-term improvement

>>15827902
>just by holding on to a derivative you are actually investing back to the economy,

Imagine thinking this lmao

>>15827990
It's almost as if half the people here have no idea what they're talking about... But that can't be; why would they have such strong opinions on something they know nothing about?

>>15824696
even if sanders does win (and you people are severely underestimating him, he has a good shot and the current polls that say that fucking Biden is the frontrunner are rigged as always), that wealth tax will be blocked by corporate republicans/democrats, and if it does go through the senate it will be immediately removed by the next president

>>15827874
Maybe not Bernie but even Warren, yes. Thiel mentioned that she was the most donated-to candidate among Google employees, so high-earner techbros

>>15827819
They're "socially liberal and fiscally conservative" which is absolutely not the same.
They will encourage and even fund you to go outside and shill to destroy the family unity, import more cheap brown people, have men to cut their dick and fuck kids but you're absolutely deluded if you think they won't think twice before crushing you like an ant if you try to mess too hard with fiscal policies.

>>15828039
>They're "socially liberal and fiscally conservative" which is absolutely not the same.
This indeed what is meant by "liberal." Fiscally conservative certainly does not mean laissez-faire among these people, instead it tends to include fairly-funded safety nets

>>15824751
Looks like Bernie is too.

>>15828039
>They're "socially liberal and fiscally conservative" which is absolutely not the same.
"Hmm, this anon has a point... Let's see what he says next."
>They will encourage and even fund you to go outside and shill to destroy the family unity, import more cheap brown people, have men to cut their dick blablablablablabla
*sigh* back to /pol/ you mong

>>15828060
Not it doesn't, "fiscally conservative" means a statu quo.

>does not mean laissez-faire among these people
Of course it doesn't because regulations are a good way to deter new players and allow them to consolidate their position, not challenge it

>>15827959
>money of the rich already is out of the US.
Yes, nobody stores any wealth here now. The absolute state of commies, lol.

>all the capitalist bootlicking in this thread
honestly where do you fags come from? CIA? JIDF? nobody is buying your theory we should all suck jeff bezos cock because he has delivered us manna from heaven. kys

>>15828089
Ok I looked it up and indeed was mistaken as to how fiscally conservative is defined, my bad.

>>15828071
>*sigh* back to /pol/ you mong
Nice counterpoint smoothbrain

>>15828062

>>15827912
>He has merely displaced the costs as an externality
I understand amazon prime operated at a loss the entire time the $99 subscription price existed. However amazon did pioneer this concept of having subscription based free shipping in e-commerce.

>I can argue that Jeff's underpaid hundreds
Jeff didn't conscript his employees to work there against their will. They all entered into legally binding contracts to provide labor for money.

>Here you need to either admit that capitalism is inherently self-contradictory
No. But it is impossible for you and I to debate whether capitalism is a benefit to humanity in a few 4chan posts so I would like to go back to what you were arguing below.

>He should have the shit taxed out of him so that others can succeed where he has failed.
So if you take $20 billion a year from Amazon where do you expect this money to go? And what has Bezos "failed" at where others will succeed?

>You're proving my point that you're a sycophant
I just met him and said hi. He doesn't remember me. Not sure how it makes me a sychophant

>>15825064
>>15824851
>>15824868
>>15824892
Yeah, just like all the alt-right virtue-signaling losers left to Canada when Obama was elected. Nobody is going to leave because they're getting taxed- and if they do, they will just be replaced by others. It's amazing what mental gymnastics people will go through to cling onto the status quo that is keeping them down.

>>15828121
no way man, rich people are totally going to uproot their entire life and move to Somalia over a 3% tax increase. literally all of them. and there's NOTHING the government can do to stop them. so I guess we shouldn't increase taxes on anyone except the poor, who can't leave! I'm a genius

>>15827946
When I mean that is not moving it means it is part of the economy but its not creating wealth. The economy works when the money/properties moves. If there is high level of this stuck the rest needs to do more.
One example is the real estate, multimillioners invest in buildings to rent or to sell with a profit after X amount of time. This is not only not creating any wealth it's actually decreasing the chance to create more as business/companies needs to pay more for that even they do something for the economy. That's the difference between capital market and consume market. Capital relay and depend on consume to exist.
Just check how much real estate the oracle owner has even is in a software company.

>>15828032
>Maybe not Bernie but even Warren, yes
There is no chance anyone with a $10MM net worth would ever vote for Warren. Maybe the Google employees who have $1million net worth.

So you're saying the majority of people with $10,000,000 would support Elizabeth Warren over Donald trump?

>>15827990
yes you are investing
"back to the economy" is just a pointless phrase you're using to arbitrarily set investments into "bad" and "good" categories

>>15827961
as i said, fuck off or get cancer

>>15828144
I'd reckon that it would follow the general pattern of the high-low vs. the middle divide in the country, but I don't have any specific data at hand to bring to bear on this question. Maybe in Middle America you'd have a more even split, but I'd say Warren in coastal areas.

>>15828114
Yeah I'm sure people like you who believe that BS are open to evaluating "counterpoints". You'd need a deep psychological dissection to untangle that shit

>>15828121
>>15828135
Sweden and Denmark both abandoned the wealth tax because of people leaving.

"In France, 513 wealthy households left the country every year for 35 years because they were tired of paying a wealth tax – taking an estimated $175 billion of assets with them."

Along with estimated 400,000 that would have existed if money stayed in France

>>15827808
Interesting to see a leftard assert superiority over brown countries. Do you really believe all people are equal?

Economy works more or less the same way regardless of iq. If it destroyed the Venezuelan economy and made them starve, it will destroy America as well and make them starve.

Yes, trickle down exists you retarded fucking goobers. You want your country to have a higher proportion of rich people. They buy a ton of expensive shit and projects and give the economy a higher baseline. It doesn't mean you will automatically be a millionaire too, that's not real.

>>15828279
>the state of /biz/

>>15828279
>trickle down exists
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

>>15828312
>>15828337

Let me explain it to you. Your average wagie has hardly no wealth to spare, their purchases are on a much smaller scale. They pay $10 for a meal, $10,000 for a car, and $500 a year on vacations. That money gets cycled back into the economy and pays restaurant workers, auto manufacturers, and service workers at tourist destinations, but only on a very small scale.

The average rich ass spends $500 on a meal, $150,000 on a car, and $25,000 annually on vacations, among other things. That is orders of magnitude more than the average wagie and pays that many more people that much more money. That is what trickle down is, the rich ass is worth 15x the economic contribution of the wagie merely by volition of their wealth.

You've been fed a stupid lie which is "rich people just hoard their cash and steal from us and that's it >:(" which ignores their enormously bigger impact on tax revenue and the economy in general. If your country has no rich people, this effect is gone. Everybody suffers. Your ideal world of magical wealth parity doesn't exist, a wealth tax would only discourage rich people from staying here and then we would lose their variety of capital investments and expenditure.

>>15828312
>>the state of /biz/
This is a pro business, pro capitalism board.

>>15825142
This isn'tt an income tax

>>15828192
>I'd reckon that it would follow the general pattern of the high-low vs. the middle divide in the country
Not a chance, every single $10,000,000 net worth individual most like despises Elizabeth Warren's existence. I can confirm that almost every person I have met with that amount of money was a republican, or just hated Democrats

>>15828121
The system sucks but that is life. If you honestly think billionaires won't just go elsewhere you are retarded.

"Hmmm, stay here and lose hundreds of millions of dollars, or catch a plane ticket over there and not lose hundreds of millions of dollars....choices choices.."

you absolute fucking mong, equating the elite with 'alt-right' nobodies moving countries for disliking their new president. Billionaires are just too docile and stupid to even think of moving to another country and taking their wealth with them....

>>15828412

Exit polling generally shows under $50k going to Dems, $50-250k going to Repubs, and over $250k at an even split, but I'm with you, over $250k would go slightly Republican if Warren was the candidate, she's Clinton + socialism lite.

Don't undercount the high amount of professionals in urban coastie areas that are liberals though, that's why the over $250k is fairly split.

>>15828135
this is for you (gif very related)

>>15828257
NOOO STOP POSTING FACTS CAPITAL FLIGHT DOESN'T EXIST

>this thread
the absolute state of /biz/. how many of you communist cumguzzlers are chainlink bagholders too?

>>15828480
lol, as if billionaires will buy a plane ticket - stupid right wing retard.

they will pay their taxes or else, uncle bernstein said so

>>15828120
>>15828188
yeah, this is devolving pretty quickly.

I will pick on the most ridiculous thing you said though.
>They all entered into legally binding contracts to provide labor for money.
Even the most die hard of ideologues in capitalism will say that it all depends on informed consent.
When one party doesn't know as much as the other party about the contract they are signing, then that contract is really valid under the treatises of capitalism, now is it?
A corporation will naturally have better resources and information to it than the individual applying for a job, and there should be counter measures to ensure that the citizenry don't get taken for a ride and then dumped in the gutter.
For you to argue against a mechanism to help ease that disparity and rectify capitalism shows you have some ulterior motives.
You're ulterior motives seems to be some cockgobbling cumgargling love for big Jeffy.
You can parade around as much as you want saying that they signed a contract, but then again, that position is about as sound as someone arguing for indentured servitude as a sound employment opportunity. Like a fucking house nigger.

>>15828524
fuck, I meant invalid, but you get the point.

>>15828532
yap, racism outside of /b/
good bye, back to plebbit

>>15828480
>capital flight from best country on earth.

leave america and go where exactly??? ur clueless.

>>15828524

These cringeworthy chapotard responses are always the same. Acting like they've "figured out" capitalism and why it's all a big bad, there is nothing that says individual actors need to be as informed or empowered as business organizations, that doesn't even make any sense as the whole point of a business is collective productive power that exceeds that of an individual worker or entrepreneur.

You're a single human individual, face it. A small, stinky, irrelevant individual in a sea of them, that's why you're less important than a big company. Socialism is so counterintuitively egotistical.

>>15828549
Those idiots really think all american billionaires will just up and leave for asia or africa just because of a 3% tax. So clueless.

>>15828572

Right there are no other countries but shitholes in Africa or Asia that don't have a standing wealth tax. I don't think you realize how "just 3%" per year starts to add up over time, actually I know you don't because you misunderstand wealth in the first place. Most of it isn't liquid, it would be highly impractical and nefarious to start taxing it like that.

>>15824696
It will
That's the whole point retard, we're trying to burn it down.

>>15828557
>implying your capitalist dick sucking is any less cringe

Land tax is the only tax that makes any fucking sense. Fuck landlords.
Idgaf about ceos, they deserve their wealth.

>>15828598

Yes, so cringey to accept objective reality and turn my focus towards succeeding within its context rather than bitching about the successes of others like a baby and voting for handouts and redistribution every year

>>15826657
>It doesn't matter where the money is, if it's valuation is under someone's custody, it will be subject to tax.
US does not police the world. They like to act like it but good luck trying to tax someone's real estate in China or whatever. The Chinese have been hiding their wealth in US real estate for years. The opposite might happen if this stupid tax goes into effect.

>>15828584
Plenty of European countries have a wealth tax and they do just fine. Even Germany has one. Stop being a crybaby about it, the world isn't gonna end just because some billionare has to pay a bit of taxes more

>>15828646

Stop being a crybaby and demanding the government steal more of other people's money to fund your failure of a life faggot

>>15828646
Germany doesn't, it would be unconstitutional according to a decision of their highest court from 1996

>>15828614
muh individualism is not an excuse for having a shitty society, sorry. you're gonna have to do better.

A wealth tax would make owning a large business impossible and completely deincentivize ever becoming very wealthy.

Maybe instead of complaining about the rich, people actually put that effort into becoming rich themselves.

Leftist

>OMG I'm sooo nihilistic, god is fake, life is meaningless and the world needs less people!! Science is the answer

Lefties when you point out that science indicates evolution, and by extension all of innovation is development, is driven by and necessitates failures to cull the population of unfit members and promote/motivate the successful

>NOOOOOO THAT'S SO MEAN, WHAT ABOUT POOR PEOPLE? WHAT ABOUT ME? PEOPLE CANT FAIL OR BE POOR WE'RE ACTUALLY REALLY SPECIAL JUST BECAUSE WE EXIST PLEASE PAY FOR MY FOOD AND HOUSING NOO

>>15828678
>yes, hurr durr, everyone can become rich! bootstraps!!
seriously how old are you, just wondering if you're a boomer or some kind of brainwashed zoomer

>>15828672

see >>15828692

You're literally a cancer to our species and the sole reason why we aren't colonizing Mars and onward at this moment. Weighed down by the heavy anchor of government redistribution and its useful idiot socialist voters.

>>15828548
>gets butthurt about a slur
>thinks I'm from reddit
???

>>15828557
>Argues the case of individualism
>and then against it
>and then for it
>and then against it again
>except in the interest of private property, and against the interest of democracy and social solidarity

yeah, you're a fucking fool.

>>15828700
wanting America to tax the wealthy a bit more and provide free healthcare and better social services all around (including repairing in infrastructure, which is all falling apart) is preventing us from going to mars. yeah, ok.

>>15828700
Funny you say that because we were able to go to space thanks to governemnt programs. Stay deluded as always libertardian.

>>15827733
This is your true motivation. Hurting people because you feel inferior, and you think it's a crime for others to be "better" than you in some way.

>>15828718
What socialist country has good infrastructure? Look at Cuba it's been falling apart since it abandoned capitalism.

>>15828736
people wouldn't have these feelings of animosity if rich people actually cared about their local community and actively invested in it, which they used to do before that law was passed that demanded stockholders be the number 1 priority. well if stockholders are number 1, the community gets fucked. and this is the result. society needs to deal with this.

>>15828717

You don't even know what "individualism" is. It doesn't preclude the existence of private collectives, which are entirely a feature of the concept.

>>15828718
>>15828734

>oh come on it's just a widdle more money, that won't hurt!!

We're well beyond the point of no return. NASA doesn't even get 1% of the budget anymore because we need dat money fo dem programs

>>15828779
you have yet to provide any reason why a 3% increase would result in armageddon. snarky green text doesn't count.

>>15828791
he already did, you just chose to ignore it or pretend that it was wrong

>>15828812
nope, he didn't. just various shades of "muh individualism" which is also not an argument

>>15828791
Lets start with you. Lets tax you by 75%. Why not lead as a good example

>>15828823
>there are capitalist bootlickers who actually think this is a good argument

>>15828791

I never said "armageddon". I said it would be counterproductive and unhelpful for our society and economy as a whole. "Worse" doesn't imply the end of the world. And I explained logically why earlier in this thread, feel free to actually read it. It will increase capital flight and offshoring and the entire mechanism of a "wealth tax" is highly impractical and malicious for illiquid assets and investments, it would further serve to cause volatility in these markets. Income is already taxed at 30+%. Capital gains are already taxed at 15-30%. Everything is taxed at every single angle so don't pretend this is independent of that reality, there is such a thing as too much.

>>15828828
No. You say taxing and redistributing wwealt is a good thing. Just asking others to do it is hypocrite. So be a good commie, give 75% of your wealth to a centralized redistribution apparatus and show us how you profit

>>15828760
>rich people actually cared about their local community and actively invested in it, which they used to do before that law was passed that demanded stockholders be the number 1 priority. well if stockholders are number 1, the community gets fucked. and this is the result. society needs to deal with this.

I agree with this, except that it is not "rich" people who are doing this.

Making profits regardless what costs it has to the society that surrounds the business is a principle that originates in the Talmud. Milton Friedman restated this in modern economics terms saying that a corporation should only focus on profits and nothing else.

They're this way because they don't care about the society they live in, they never have. If worst comes to worst they just abandon it and move into another society.

Just attacking rich people will miss the point because (((they))) will find ways around it and only the small number of wealthy goys who are usually socially responsible will be the ones paying the price.

>>15828828
>>15828819

This is just poop on a screen at this point. The final phase of a socialist's "argument", stomping their feet and saying you're stupid over and over again.

>>15828718
Stop talking.
You're embarrassing yourself, commie shit smear.

>>15828693
if you are white and have any problem getting rich or even very rich you are the problem

>>15828760
>rich people actually cared about their local community and actively invested in it, which they used to do before that law was passed that demanded stockholders be the number 1 priority. well if stockholders are number 1, the community gets fucked. and this is the result. society needs to deal with this.

I agree with this, except that it is not "rich" people who are doing this.

Making profits regardless what costs it has to the society that surrounds the business is a principle that originates in the Talmud. Milton (((Friedman))) restated this in modern economics terms saying that a corporation should only focus on profits and nothing else.

They're this way because they don't care about the society they live in, they never have. If worst comes to worst they just abandon it and move into another society.

Attacking the rich is never going to hurt them because (((they))) are the ones pushing it. They have ways around it. The "rich" in leftist polemics usually turns out in practice to be the white middle class.

>>15828873
Imagine thinking only "commies" support a wealth tax when even most republicans agree it's needed

It's time to accept most people don't care about your libertarian echo chamber.

Rich people will find ways around this wealth tax, including moving out before it comes into being, taking advantage of tax lawyers and entities to protect assets etc.

Eventually, this will affect the white middle and working classes who are already having difficulty making ends meet. They won't have the option of easily moving to another country to escape this taxation.

>>15828900
>look look
>my sample says the other party is supporting the delusion
>lets do it
you first, give 75% of your wealth to a redistribution apparatus and show us how well it works for you. If it is so good, maybe we follow your example. Stop being a hypocrite and lead as a good example

>>15828372
Christ, you're an illiterate cunt. Find me one credible economist stating that the rich have a higher marginal propensity to consume, since you're simply blatantly lying here. Absolute consumption per capita is meaningless, as, ceteris paribus, you could redistribute everything the rich guy has and share it among people who'll more consume a larger share of any additional income they have. And don't fucking dare shift the goalposts.

>>15828851
nice projection. a cursory glance of your posts in this thread reveals your argument is basically "ur dum, lol".

>>15828942
Have you already donate your wealth to a redistribution apparatus, funding those that get paid by your donations to redistribute it back to you? No, then fuck off hypocrite

>>15828900
lmao the power of "democracy"

>100 people
>1 of them is really rich
>"hey man 51-99% of us believe that you have too much stuff, give some to us"
>"if you don't we'll jail you for tax evasion and confiscate your wealth, sorry! ;("

the more i see the more i hate the masses at the bottom.

>>15828956
>the more i see the more i hate the masses at the bottom.
this but unironically

>>15828915
>you don't want to write a check giving away all your money to the government while rich people continue to pay little to nothing in taxes? heh. looks like you're a hypocrite. gotcha

>>15828956
>>15828965
t. the masses at the bottom

>>15828995
yes please tell me more about how much oppressed i am goy

>>15825014
>America is still the best country. Name a better country with lower tax rates. You can't
You won't be able to name a decent country with higher tax rates if these wealth taxes are enacted.

The European countries Democrats point to are not taxing wealth anywhere near 2%.

If you're a boomer, you finish your career and then retire in a cheap developing country.

If you're a business owner and warren is taxing your wealth, you build your business in the US (lowest income tax) and then retire in a socialist European country (lowest wealth tax).

>>15828978
you are a hypocrite. As said above there is nothing like classes, only clever lads and not so clever lads, you are obviously a not so clever lad that needs a daddy to take care of you. In a just society your genes would have died long ago

>>15826125
I bought chainlink dumbass

>>15829007
Having a laugh thinking of all the white rich fratboys pushing degeneracy on your pitiful social class and you defending them free of charge.

>>15828900
>>15828956
literally the "2 wolves and 1 sheep voting for dinner" meme

>>15829007
it's a mathematical fact that you are at the bottom of the pyramid, defending your masters. if this cucky arrangement bothers you, too bad.

>>15829014
you can continue to spam this dumb "argument" of yours. nobody with any brain is paying attention.

>>15829038
if the 2 wolves were extremely underfed and malnourished, and the sheep was some kind of cyborg super sheep owned by jeff bezos

>>15826803
In the abstract I agree with you...who the fuck needs 32 million to live, but it’s still not a good idea to fuck to much with what we take away from people...who decides what is “too much” can be a slippery slope.

>>15829035
that's the irony, you are a neckbeard on 4chan laughing by yourself in front of a computer "teaching" others as if your advice is worth anything

>>15829041
You are a hypocrite. You want a state to take care of your lazy uncreative ass, but you don't want to pay for it, you want others to fund it. You are the prefect example of a powerless retard that will never own something and blame somebody else till the day he stops breathing. If you want to change something, grab a gun and go change it, but therefor you are too lazy and you want again somebody else to take care of YOUR problems, loser

>>15829014
>needs a daddy to take care of you
You admitted previously that you're not rich, so obviously you could use one . . . Not to mention all the opioid-munching the white lower classes engage in

>>15829072
You didn't quite catch the point, but that's okay.

>>15826181
>It forces the reinvestment of wealth back into the economy either by incentivizing actual investment by owners or by the government reinvesting through spending as wages for public sector employees.
That depends on the rate of taxation.

Too low and you let the idle rich gradually own more of society without actually investing to make better.

Too high and you destroy the wealth of the competent entrepreneurs before they can deploy their capital efficiently.

Say a world-changing company takes 10 years to build. 2% every year for ten years. That's nearly 20% of your wealth if you have a lot. Could you imagine Elon musk making Tesla or SpaceX work if 20% of the money he spent on Tesla or SpaceX had instead been taken? I don't think so.

While I do like the idea of a wealth tax (replace capital gains with it!) for penalizing the idle rich and letting entrepreneurs reign (hence, no capital gains tax- if you're actively making income that's good, we should encourage that instead of encouraging you to passively get richer), I think 2% sounds realllly high. I'm not sure even really good entrepreneurs could handle that.

>>15829041
>bottom of the pyramid
>underfed and malnourished
nobody on usa or europe is underfed or malnourished. only the gutter bottom 1% of drug addicts and homeless niggers.
we can afford computers, have ample food (even an obesity problem among the lower classes) and since we don't live in kongo or india we have the privilege of being born in countries with social mobility

>>15826181
>Either way it lowers wealth inequality
Wealth inequality is not a bad thing by itself.

If you have all your medical care and a good job and a nice place, why does it matter if someone else has all that and ten nice places and a yacht?

>>15829078
On paper, officially, I'm poor BUT that is only officially, what I let the tax authority know. The moment I have enough put aside from unregistred income streams and straight away illegal activities, not seen by the eyes of a greedy bureaucratic apparatus, I piss off.

>>15829087
you probably didn't notice, but you never made a point. that's common with people who spend extended times at echochambers, they sprout memes or insults and then wonder they can't convince everyone with their superior persuasion skills.
clearly we must have the mindsets of slaves or be of inferior intellect to be unable to grasp your ideals.

>>15829112
The John McAfee mindset. I guess you pick your battles.

>>15826803
If you think I don't need more than $32m then I just stop working lol

I am literally building cool shit that would make your life better if it worked out btw

I can't speak for other people but for myself, I really will just stop building things when I hit $32m if Sanders has his wealth tax. That or move. I like travelling and I like living in different cities.

>>15829126
Right. The point was that you're licking boots that are kicking you, as is plain for anyone to see.

>>15829140
see >>15829126

>>15824696
How is a wealth tax any different then property tax? Property tax is just a wealth tax specifically on your house/land? The economy didn't end with that.

>>15829129
If my work would be taxed for the sole purpose to fund external security, I would be happy to share it, but as it is used to drag losers and genetic failures along the way, as to fund an oligarchic bureaucratic apparatus that is corrupt to the toes AND isn't used to fund external security, yeah, I pick my battles, I rather live 30 years like a poorfag, steal as much from the welfare system as possible, pay as less back as possible and be far away when the whole shit show comes crashing down and buries all the ideologues and loser beneath it

>>15829151
I can't make it much easier for you, sorry.
>>15829166
You might the be genetic failure here, at least to the extent that you cannot operate in a liberal society. The rules of survival have changed since the paleolithic, you know.

>>15829153
first of all property tax is immoral
i own only 1 house that doesn't generate me any money, yet i pay property tax. it should only be limited to people with multiple houses, who either generate wealth through rent (and pay part of it to the state thanks to income tax) or who are not utilizing their property (to be penalized/incentivized towards making use of it).

also the initial concept of property tax was to be levied at a municipal only level, which meant that the money you paid was re-invested towards the improvement of your community (parks, amenities, infrastructure, etc). at some point though this ideal got bastardized and the tax was also levied at a government level, which means your worthless government is taking your money to balance it's budget.
what tells me that the concept of the wealth tax won't be corrupted in the nearby future? what assures me that it will remain at 32 million and not fall down to 32 thousand? remember, when the commies were done with the rich they went for the middle class

>>15829199
>The rules of survival have changed since the paleolithic
Not really, human nature doesn't change because a bunch of faggots say so. Grab as much resources as possible and secure those resources, pretty much the same as 150000 years ago. btw, norms and rules are just man made semantic tricks to keep losers in line.

>>15829199
see >>15829126

>>15826854
>can imagine how's my lifestyle would've bloated at that point though.
>Like first having an army of bodyguards...
$32m doesn't buy you an army of bodyguards you dumbass

With a safe withdrawal rate (i.e., the amount of your wealth you can sell safely each year - HUUUGELY dependent on which investments you make and likely 3% is too high, 2% is probably where you should be) of 3%, $32m gives you a pre-tax income of $960,000/yr, for simplicity, let's call that $1m.

Depending on what state and city you live in, you could end paying a marginal tax rate of 20% (federal cap gains tax) + 3.8% (federal NIIT) + 6-10% (e.g., new York state + city income taxes which treat cap gains as ordinary income) = About 33%.

Just as a complete guess, let's say that even though you pay the top rate of 33% on most your income, you only pay like 25% overall.

So you can safely (but really, 3% makes a lot of assumptions and it's likely not that safe) have a income of $1m per year. And you pay 25% overall in taxes, so $250k/yr. Thus, you have $750k/yr after taxes.

Googling suggests bodyguard salaries in the range of $75-115k/yr. Let's call it $90k. With insurance, etc., the cost to hire a human being in America ends up almost doubling (so $180k/yr), but let's be conservative and say your bodyguard costs $150k/yr.

How many bodyguards can you afford on $750k/yr?

Now if you were paying attention, you'd be wondering: if the maximum amount that is safe is closer to 2% per year than 3% per year... Then what happens when the wealth tax is 2% per year?

What happens is it's not safe to spend any of your money on yourself. If you have more than $50m, then you should sell 2% of the first $50m and spend it on yourself every year and then for the amount over $50m, you should sell 2% to pay your taxes every year ___and then never use any of the rest__.

>>15829226
>btw, norms and rules are just man made semantic tricks to keep losers in line.
Actually it's the losers who are unaware of these semantics and can't use them to their advantage, they're barriers to entry for people who don't understand the meta-game. Saying the shit you're saying would get kicked you out of any elite circles or positions of authority (of course it doesn't matter what you say over the internet). The people who master those semantics of insider trading, consumer manipulation, rent-seeking etc. are the ones who have the most money

>>15828557
I hate the chapofaghouse menace too. All there is one true ideology or this ideology is evil posters are usually room temperature iq.

>>15829254
>yourself every year and then for the amount over $50m, you should sell 2% to pay your taxes every year ___and then never use any of the rest__.

This is another reason why I think that even though a wealth tax (combined with removing capital gains tax) could be a good idea for letting the lazy rich die while entrepreneurs continue to grow (especially by not taxing their income), 2% seems like the maximum amount such a tax should be- possibly even too high.

Since 2% is likely the maximum amount you can spend without going broke, it means that the point where the tax hits 2% is essentially a wealth cap IF YOURE A USELESS IDLE RICH PERSON.

At 2% you can't rely on your wealth to make you richer. There's too much risk - you can only assume you'll stay at the same level of wealth unless you put in the work (and risk) to do something that's actually productive to increase your wealth.

This could be a good thing- maybe the idle rich should have a wealth cap. Kind of like saying, if you never want to work again, fine, but we're not gonna let you get even more wealthy unless you work for it.

But since it's so high enough to hit the level of effectively being a wealth cap (for those who are idle), I wonder if it's actually too high. That just seems like a radical change and I'm not sure what the unexpected effects would be.

Also, seriously, I think taking 20% of Elon musk wealth would have killed Tesla and SpaceX. It sounds like those companies survive just barely due to him using all his resources. 20%-ish over ten years could be the difference between survival or not. Now imagine that being applied to people who may be good entrepreneurs but not as good as Elon musk. Could be too high for them.

Wealth taxes could be good because they encourage entrepreneurship instead of passively getting richer, but if they're so high that they crush the entrepreneurs, then obviously that's bad.

>>15829270
>the leet circles would kick you out
Why the hell would I want be part of any gay ideological l33t circle - I want to be as far away from that kind of brain dead ideological circle jerk as possible
>b-but they have the most monies
>d-don't you want to have as many monies as them and shape the world of a bunch of sheep
No. Let the sheep and them die in piss

>>15828557
Yeah, I also get the impression that most of the people complaining about capitalism aren't upset that some people have more than other people. They're just upset that they're not the ones in the favorable position.

You can see this when the same people who are Democrats and complain about rent prices and evil landlords and evil profit-dricen developers turn around and insist that no more housing should be built in such and such area even though that would let enough housing exist for prices to fall for more people to be able to afford to rent.

As long as they get to have their dream of moving to NYC and having a lucky rent-controlled apartment, they don't care if the next person just like them can fulfill their own dream of moving to NYC and being able to have a place to live.

So many of them are not for a better life for everyone, but just a better life for them specifically. But they want the government to make someone else give it to them instead of properly satisfying their selfish desires through their own work. It's thoroughly hypocritical.

I'm a selfish motherfucker but I at least admit that and I satisfy my desires without forcing other people to pay for it. And I want to make it easier for other people to get what they want - that's why I oppose efforts to restrict housing construction, for example, and support helping others learn to code for another example.

>>15829270
If you're wealthy then you don't actually need to be in an elite circle.

There are idiots at all levels of wealth who feel the need to socially fit in, but that doesn't mean you need to do so.

>>15826888
Start posting augments nigger

>>15829389
That's ok, just don't think you're some Darwinian wonder if you can't actually obtain power lol

>>15829656
>lol

>>15829683
or reproduce. edgy virgin nerd