/biz/ - Business & Finance

Every system of morality and governance gets dominated by those who can exploit the gap between that system and moral perfection (there will never not be a gap)

All your alternative would do is let those very same sociopaths, who got to the top through ruthless but voluntary practices, have access to true compulsion.

Capitalism is the best system there is.

You're just mad you don't get a piece of the pie.

>>15684781
> The other systems are bad as ours is
Fake and not an excuse

https://youtu.be/2GvDyJobHTM

>>15684799
It is an excuse. It's a very good excuse, because man is flawed.

If man were perfect, the 'system' in which he existed would make no difference to the quality of society.

Having to come up with a 'system' (stop being retarded) is a very consequence of man's imperfection.

>>15684793
> If you were rich you can afford expensive clothes and furnitures and pay for expensive whores to get the most trendy chlamidya.
In the meanwhile meds and alcohol can relieve your emptyness if you're enough low iq to not commit suicide before 40.
"You're envious" is not an excuse

>>15684816
> We're completely burned out and can't even ask ourselves if there are ways to fix our system

>>15684838
That's not what I said.

You made a claim to the effect that the postulate "All other systems are worse" is not a reason to remain capitalist.

I denied this and gave a reason.

You're ignoring me and rambling. This thread is probably bait.

>>15684781
first part of this post at least is 100% true

>>15684753

Sociopaths have always ruled the world you fucking retard

>>15684856
Based

Name a better system, loser, protip, you wont

>>15684856
> Oh look, there's another commie criticizing capitalism

If you can get over this, we can talk.
Ok, all system are flawed because human nature is.
Question is: if every system acts like a filter, what kind of human type emerges from every system?
We know that evolution is absolutely neutral, if such characters are more likely to survive into a specific system, then they will be more likely passed over the next gens.

>>15684889
i think the US has everything backwards
It is better to have too much government than it is to have too little government.
The rest of the world is moving in that direction.

>>15684816
what if the system itself fixed the nature of man.

Example: we are only corrupted because of the things that we desire. But what if there was a society in which everyone got what everyone desired. Hypothetically, that "system" would work.

Saying capitalism is okay because people are bad and so changing the system wont make a difference is retarded.

>>15684753
it's an endless list, anon

>>15684915
I agree.
That's precisely the reason why a system wherein resources are allocated through production and transaction will, in the long-run, be better than any system wherein people are allowed to succeed through pillage.

>>15684882
>>15684889
Oh look, there are some experts here.

>>15684941
As you can see, the number of psychopats is increasing, maybe one of the reasons is that some degree of mental disease improve chances to survive into this specific system.

>>15684919
Systems can make man better or worse.
I haven't voiced an opinion regarding these such effects of each popular system.
Though I am of the opinion that systematic deviations from private property rights lead to degeneracy.

As to the last two lines of your post, you're going to have to elaborate. I'm not sure I made the claim contained within the third (and nonetheless I reject it).

>>15684824
>i hate everything that "the good life" entails
Every weak person throughout the ages has said this, there's nothing deeper to this than coping. "You're envious" is the full truth.

>>15684753
Capitalism... well define capitalism, there are many fair and profitable ways of conducting business.

>who was Josef Stalin
>Pol Pot
>Mao
Commie faggot

>>15684954
Why don't we instead cut the chaff and simply postulate that the number of psychopaths increases proportionately to the year AD, and therefore propose resetting the year to a third chapter of our calendar, 0EP perhaps?

By which I mean: if what you're saying about the growth of these traits is true (I grant it), what particular evidence do we have to blame this growth on property rights - which, I might add, have been in systematic decline since 1850 across the whole of the Western world.

And - might I further add (without much by the way of actual studies, so dismiss this point if you will) - we find the most psychopathic elements not in Europe or in America, but in the culture of Russia and of China.

If your central hypothesis rests on this causation, we have much more reason to contest that psychopathy is caused by the rise of the modern entangled-in-all state rather than the rise of property rights.

>>15684962
I'm not a commie, can't trigger me on pp.

>>15684967
Please look at some 1970 magazine commercials.
Look at how pathetic they look, now, surrounding themselves with rubbish.
They struggled to work 18hrs/day to afford that rubbish, and to pursue those lame hi-fis, furnitures, horrible dresses.

> Every weak person
Actually it's the opposite
It's obvious that you're a reader.

>>15685011
I don't think 'can't trigger me on pp' adds much to the discussion.

>>15685001
If your brain can breathe, i would like to speak more widely than 1984 cold war "commies vs yankees".

You know what "utopia" is?

>>15684793
Bernie supporters will tear you apart.

>>15684753
National socialism is the only good system, but you sensitive little fags won't let us gas the kikes, so we have to settle on capitalism.

>>15685026
Heaven, death, the land of no more willing?
Elaborate.

>>15684919
>But what if there was a society in which everyone got what everyone desired.
This is achievable with capitalism. Most people used to desire things like family and friends, but we've done a pretty good job of directing these desires to more consumptive stuff like video games, politics, and drugs, which are easier to procure. The elites can take this even further in the future.

>>15685038
Utopia was a popular genre, in which writers used to draw models of society.
There wasn't a real interest in applying such models, but to ask questions about their own society.

In a similar way works dystopia.

>>15684753
Shut up commie

>>15685073
Elaborate further - there isn't enough content here for me to say much of substance

>>15685085
coloured people are not allowed to discuss this thread, sorry ma'n

natsoc

>>15684753
capitalism morally is fucked but its the closest system to Darwinism competition of species which is the natural law that humankind has survived for 65000 years. No other system would punish short sighted profiteers and crooks. It doesn't matter how far we can technologically go, our instincts and intuitive psychology is based on our tens of thousands of year long history of living in tribal societies.
The main problem is business is not as clean as it once used to be. Keynesian economy, Lobbying and fiat money system has given the more power to big business which through government help can actually manipulate the market to their needs and create actual monopolies and not be worried about market competition.

if there is an alternative to capitalism it has to be some variant of socialism/communism.
And theres more variants than just marxist-leninism, theres council communism, market socialism, participatory economics...
All of which are more democratic forms of communism.

>>15685090
If it's true that capitalism filters sociopaths and some other psyco as winners, and capitalism itself needs to evolve continuously to not collapse, turning every human value into a variable / commodity that can be priced of given up.

>>15684753
Only people who can't fight for themselves hate competitive systems.

>>15685011
>wealth is only about material things
This is a very lower-middle-class characterization of wealth or the good life. Most intelligent people don't really operate within this hedonism-nihilism paradigm you're setting up here.

>>15685120
Social darwinism is a meme.
And, if you want to apply really darwinism, there's no reason at all to keep any rules.
You got no money? Steal it.
You got competitors? Kill them.
If there's only one rule, IE to survive, there's no reason to "play by some alleged rules", ethics is an option, you become successful if you can commit a crime and be enough smart to not get busted.

>>15685120
>capitalism morally is fucked but its the closest system to Darwinism
That would be liberalism. Capitalism doesn't necessarily mislead you, neuter you, and fuck with your head the way liberalism does.

>>15685149

Yeah, I tend to agree with this.

Dirty commie here, but I don't see anything wrong with competition.
Some leftists hate competition and admonish it completely. And yet competition is visible in nearly every social function that exists. It especially exists in the realm of reproduction.

>>15685174
But the distinction is almost meaningless in the modern era, of course.

>>15685138
This is going too slow.

>If it's true that capitalism filters sociopaths and some other psyco as winners
This is the central claim and hasn't yet been established.

>capitalism itself needs to evolve continuously to not collapse
This is false. If people's desires stopped evolving, the market wouldn't collapse.

>turning every human value into a variable / commodity that can be priced of given up.
There's no causal link between change in the market and 'turning people into commodities'.

This is going to devolve quite quickly into a claim that the state and central banks are actually capitalist.
I don't defend them.

>>15685155
This is a truth most people doesn't realize.
So, if everything works as a gaussian curve, we can suppose that 90% of people make system work just to achieve material results.

>>15685188
Okay, you're right. I had in my mind an entirely different class of people when I started arguing with you, I should've clarified.

>>15684793
Capitalism is a Jewish ponzi scheme even if you're rich
Kys

Well either way the reason why theres more sociopaths is because of sexual liberalism not necessarily capitalism really.
sociopaths are charismatic and r selected so they impregnate multiple women who then become singke moms.

>>15685184
50-60's consumism phase is already set, for example.
Infinite growth and debts force system to accelerate / change continuously.

>>15685213
Apply to this some game theory, and you will notice this won't end up well.

>>15685221
Well the solution is to take womens rights away.
The question is how.

>>15685169
The survival of one's genetic line demands short sighted people be brought in line or expunged. You are creating an environment that disadvantages the societal organism. It does best when extraordinary talent is allowed to pursue its fruits aesthetically. You likely distract the wrong people from that you vacuous fuck.

>>15685215
If growth causes change then you can presumably explain to me how growth precedes change and is not, instead, the consequence of reallocation?
Infinite growth as a tenet of capitalism is an anti-capitalist strawman. Nobody advocates it and it isn't required.

Debt doesn't change the picture per se, the fault you're pointing towards lies with the desire of each man to have himself be valued by others.

>>15685250
Your sentence makes no complete sense, rephrase pls

>>15685259
Ok, i told that growth and debt force capitalism to change, you disagree.
But capitalism is changing anyway, it's a fact

>>15685298
Capitalism changes because the world changes.
It doesn't, because of any internal necessity, need to change. It changes insofar as it participates in temporal reality.

>>15684917
the US has a shit ton of government though
it has federal, state, county, city, town
all many levels of bureaucracy
it's a real shitshow

>>15685169
You cant endlessly run a business where you fuck your clients and partners over, you would run out of clients and partners do to business with.
Also ostracism is deep in peoples genetics, because most of our history consists of a timeline where nature was a big danger, getting kicked out of a village or tribe because you're a nihilistic asshole would've killed you prior to the 15th century

>>15685174
Thats true and to be honest here, 21 century liberal is more align with a softcore socialist

>>15685355
Nowadays we live in bubbles, no one gives a shit if you're a nihilistic asshole.
Look at every animal behaviour in nature, consider every behaviour or technique as a survival chunk, if the system allows a specific survival chunk, this will spread until saturation.
From a poor nig pow, even to go in jail is better than starve free, right?

>>15684799
The other systems are WORSE.

In capitalism the sociopathic fascists who run our economy are unable to openly kill or maim people or send them to gulags.

They also have to avoid offending society too bad based on an an admittedly very imperfect idea of public morality that may be getting worse faster than its getting better at the moment.

In the Soviet Union they just built a society that was too busy turning in each other for minor offenses to organize any resistance.

>>15684838
I'm trying to fix the system. The thing is, what's wrong with the system is not the lack of central planning and ultimate authority. The problem is too much of it.

We need to liberalize and to some extent democratize the corporate economy. You categorically cannot do that with more authority. Freedom and equality can only be achieved with LESS authority.

>>15685366
Curiously enough, Spengler predicted ~100 years ago that softcore socialism (he called it "ethical socialism") would be the final world sentiment of Western civilization. Until political forms get truly debauched and hopeless, seems like we are very much stuck with this brand of liberalism.

>>15685434
Get out of '84 commie meme you too
There are thousands of different societies in history.
And i'm not even speaking about "let's become like this".
Just raising questions.

>>15685434
Corporations are already doing what i'm predicting will happen to individuals.
They are already beyond ethics, the only rule is to get away with the specific cheats and not to face consequences.

>>15685438
Spengler is absolutely right, just listening to the democratic 2020 debate will make me feel discouraged about our future

Game theory is clear, if acting like a sociopath or worse gets you benefits, lacking every other bonduary (because we know that libtards like to be with lesser rules, and they see religion as a nasty ballast to be purged), in order to be successful it's better that all players act like sociopaths.

>>15684753
> Posts picture of a character in a movie that has literally nothing to do with capitalism
Leftists will always fucking lose

>>15685605
> doesn't read shit
> posts some mong sjw
Ok, your point is still funny

>>15684753
get a load of this retard

>>15684917
>it's better to have too much government than too little government
imagine regulating nikola tesla

>>15685621
> Le capitalism is run by PSYCHOS
> see le movie PSYCHO with the character that has nothing to do with business and finance but he's le PSYCHO from horer mobie!
> Haha look at this PSYCHO haha
Ok well communists are a bunch of murdering faggots. Pic related

>>15685642
We dont need anymore nikola teslas.
That robot AI shit is creepy.
And going to space is stupid and wasteful.

Does no one here understand we never had true capitalism since the Federal Reserve came about. You can’t have capitalism with a manipulated currency... its no longer free market trade, but controlled trading.

>>15685654
> coloured men and mutt hillybillies are not really allowed to discuss this thread
Burgers are incapable of every sort of deep debate.

>>15685760
As hypothetical a concept as true communism.

>>15685786
There's nothing to debate. Psychos, sociopaths, and megalomaniacs alike will gain power regardless of system of government or economy or societal structure. Deal with it, nigger.

>>15686049
> It's always been like that
Ok avg man, don't bother with these silly questions and go on with doing your laundry

>>15684753
*Unregulated capitalism.

You may not think it.
But this is what true evil really looks like.

>>15686398
How much Bitcoin do you think he owns? Do you think he's one of the whales manipulating the markets so nobody gets richer than him?

>>15686398
How is your medication? Remember to take it.

>>15684919
The problem is that for many people it's not that they desire a certain thing, but instead that they constantly desire more than they have even if they have a lot. Your hypothetical system wouldn't be able to address that.

Capitalism succeeds because it is modeled around the laws of nature, dominance and the concept of "more" . retarded concepts like commieniggsm are fairy tales for idiots that only corrupt governments would exploit for their own gain. OP should just move to Hong Kong to escape "Le sociopath" tyranny, why won't OP do it? because he is a fag.

>>15685210
seething poorfag cope

That's what government's for: to keep the sociopaths in check

Yes sirs we should burn all our Morpheus coins after 30 days

>>15686398
No, that's about what I expect evil to look like. The average human is filled with evil.

>>15686504
based

>>15686494
Yeah funny, I own three houses.
Do you still have a mortgage on your cuckshed?

>>15684753
Kek. Governments do, fuck face. I trust capitalism a lot more than socialism, I tell you fucking hwat.

>>15684753
Yea but it took longer than communism.

>>15685707
imagine thinking that you can take responsibility for other people's lives and not end up putting so many restrictions and regulations on them that they end up developing mental disorders, being perpetually poor, and dying early of loneliness after having lived an unfulfilling life because they have no skills or practical knowledge or talent because it's instilled in them since youth that as little as a trip to the bathroom requires government approval

>>15685786
communism is predicated on slavery, because nobody is allowed to separate themselves economically from the central planners
thus, federal taxation is communistic and is thus slavery
your natural right to freely disassociate from whoever you wish is violated
state and local taxes are okay, so long as you do not and every other man does not have your and their rights to form your own state, your own municipality, and your own autonomous community on your own land contested by the surrounding state

there is only one axis that has any practical relevance, and that is the collectivism-individualism axis
collectivism is full authoritarian communism, individualism is full libertarian capitalism
libertarian communism is like a body without an immune system, and authoritarian capitalism is like a man armed with an M16 trying to push around another man with an M16 in a society full of men armed with M16s
the reality of politics is not more complicated than this

Ideologies are for literal faggot larpers anyone who knows anything knows your society is a function of the people in it. Thats why we need to deport all minorities back to their homeland.

>>15686526
Unregulated society eventually leads to an unregulated man.
Once you've realized that, there's no limit anymore.

If 99% feels oppressed by 1%, for example, there's litterally nothing that prevents them to kill their oppressors, except obviously propaganda, entertainments, drugs.

Once no one anymore is asking how to improve society and pursue people happyness, it's just a matter of time.

On an evolutionary point of view, there's no problem in using every mean in order to survive, there's no point in following any rule.

>>15686625
same way as nature has its natural balance, an unregulated society regulates itself by spontaneously creating a hierarchy which consists of leaders and followers, spontaneous unity will take effect accordingly to the native culture or to a culture that is most fitting to the majority of the population in that area. Unregulated society which finds its own way voluntarily will be more sufficient and organised because every individual will specialize to their natural skills and not be a burden on the society or he, she will fail to carry on their hereditary information.

Community that is centralized will only fail to maximize their possible productivity because nothing will be transparent or done voluntarily.

Fine. We'll compromise. Instead of capitalism or communism we take the middle of the road and go for a feudal monarchy. It's not as brutal as communism and government has much less power.