/biz/ - Business & Finance

> Cannot Be Monopolized: Central banking monopolies are at the heart of many economic problems around the world where entire nations are held hostage by these singular entities. Even though electricity has a universal global value, it would be impossible to monopolize the production of kilowatts.

> Decentralized: Literally, anyone can produce electricity if they choose to do so. Although larger organizations may be necessary to handle the issuance or certification of kWh notes, independent energy producers would compete to produce electricity as efficiently as possible.

> Spurs Innovation: The incentive to create electricity would spur incredible innovation in technology. Rivero, of the Lectro, suggests perhaps more valuable certificates could be issued for electricity derived from clean technology to incentivize its expansion. And if by some chance a source of “free energy” is discovered – fantastic – it could still be measured and used to control the supply of money.

> Spurs Conservation: When electric power literally equals money, everyone will immediately become more conscious of their energy use. This alone would have a tremendous benefit on the environment.

> Transportable: Pure gold and silver (commodity money) are not practical physical currencies because large quantities are not easily carried in our pockets. kWh notes would be a paper form of “receipt” or “representative” money where the note can be redeemed for something real and measurable. Fully-backed receipt money is historically viewed as the only form of honest paper money.

> Creates wealth instead of poverty during the transition from human labor to machine labor. As we move towards more automation, we become more reliant on electricity and less on human labor. Rivero postulates “At present, human labor precedes all capital, payable in a monetary system that pays primarily for human labor. In switching to a monetary system that pays for machine based power production, we evolve towards a society where machines become the primary creators of capital, and all humans shift towards the demand side of the economy. Instead of creating poverty, the push towards automation creates more wealth.”

Bitcoin is literally electricity as currency

>>1567093
Well not quite. You can't boil an egg with bitcoin

>>1567093
well, its not. since it can be stored in different medias. like for exemple: you could place it in a hd, a dvd disk etc. you still need energy to cash it out, but fiat also needs energy to check credit. so its different. You cant store energy in large quantities, i dont know alot about bateries, but i cant think a way of storing alot of reusable energy.

Yes but what if the lockheed skunkworks project succeeds? They are saying that in that case, electricity will become too cheap to even bother with metering.

Good idea anon, I think you're pretty much right. Except for one problem. Storage. Storability is crucial and without it, you can't have good and efficient money.

>>1567085
well it would probably fluctuate alot with energy production. Since energy is scarce and it will be even more rare to produce energy if we dont nail nuclear fusion in a production scale(some say it will take 10 or 20 years to do so). Seems like a good idea, but why not do that with gold ? i mean i know why dolar is not backed with gold now, the reason is simple : if there is no fixed value, its easyer to banks commite frauds using a central bank system. therefore your idea is good, we could even use money backed by food, still the bank system would never allow it since it would make them unable to commit fraud (by lending money that they dont have, to people that cant pay, and using the public money as bailouts ).

I didn't read it all, but wouldn't you need some kind of reserve?

Because batteries are still so inefficient, the value that you hold with e.g. 1 electro-coin would be a percentage of the momentarily produced current. Hmmm what are the consequences?

Also an interesting question could be, what does it actually mean if I hold in my "wallet" the current needed by 10 households?

>>1567120
you dont need that, the OP already said the money would be backed by production of energy not the energy itself since we cant store reuseable energy in large quantities, but we can produce alot of energy. So its a comodity backed currency just like gold.

>>1567125
mabe energy consumption credit ? like if you had enough of that currency you could live without never turning your air conditioner off.

>>1567088
>> Transportable: Pure gold and silver (commodity money) are not practical physical currencies because large quantities are not easily carried in our pockets. kWh notes would be a paper form of “receipt” or “representative” money where the note can be redeemed for something real and measurable. Fully-backed receipt money is historically viewed as the only form of honest paper money.
Is this a fucking joke?
Electricity is LESS portable than gold and silver, since it's practically intangible. If you're going to argue that notes backed by electricity count as electricity-as-money, then it is equally portable because we used the exact same system for gold and silver.

>>1567085
stop

This part of of OPs idea is really cool I think:

> Spurs Innovation: The incentive to create electricity would spur incredible innovation in technology. Rivero, of the Lectro, suggests perhaps more valuable certificates could be issued for electricity derived from clean technology to incentivize its expansion. And if by some chance a source of “free energy” is discovered – fantastic – it could still be measured and used to control the supply of money.

If we generalize this idea it means we should make currencies of things where we want to see progress. Bc people would then try to "mine" and generate the currency.

>>1567129
Yes, you actually need that. Sure we can store energy by looking at the source of the energy, but it is implicit that all of these conditions are together - i.e. that you can both transmit and store the money in question. You can store a power plant, and transmit electricity, but in order for it to be proper money you want to be able to do both. The "commodity-backed currency" is another thing, personally I would argue that electricity is a form of commodity itself, since it has intrinsic value

>>1567166
Tbh I don't think this would make any difference. Electricity is already a HUGE industry and easy to sell for other types of money. The actual value of the electricity would not change just because we start measuring value in it, and the incentives and certificates that are already in place and are being planned would not be affected either.

>>1567181

Thats true. Maybe holding a percentage of the electricity production can be interesting but a whole currency around it might be too impractical. But with a crypto currency that is tied to the production on could make it easy to buy such shares. But now I dont care anymore lol

>>1567096
Lol'd

>>1567085
Maybe it already is and u just cant see the effects or prose or offshoots or ripple effects of it like in 2008 when the economy crashed and all the bankers stole the money from people in public and crashed the pretend housing and stock market so they can print and make imaginary money for themselves

>>1567088
>ure gold and silver (commodity money) are not practical physical currencies because large quantities are not easily carried in our pocket
depends how large you're talking, and how often you need to carry around large amounts of money

>>1567096

buy some bitcoin mining equipment and tell me you couldn't boil anything with it

This is honestly one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. How are you going to pay for a hamburger? Batteries?

People can create electricity through generators, solar panels, windmills so the value of the currency would be basically supply and demand of energy which is not that expensive to make. So any high value transaction would be transferring huge amounts of energy which serves no purpose and is inefficient

I've thought about this for my imagined communist state. If people were issued energy equivalents, instead of money, and the energy equivalents were rooted in renewable energy, you would never consume more than what is sustainable for the environment. It would be in the people's interest to spend the fossile fuels to expand the renewable energy supply. Sharing would be an essential part of life, as well: getting to work cost you 20 kWh, why not share a ride and split the cost between four? Or the cinema: showing a movie cost 10 kWh. Bring a friend, and the cost for you will be reduced as well. Inverse proportionality, great thing!

>>1567085
Nobody tell him that the kilowatt-hour isn't an actual unit.

>>1567085
>rich rappers start tasering hookers in their videos instead of throwing money at them

on board

>>1569137
Based.

>>1567085
But anon you cannot really store electricity. One of the reasons people use gold and bitcoin is that it lasts indefinitely; if you throw your gold or btc cold storage wallet in a hole for a thousand years it will still be there unchanged when it's retrieved. Using something that dissipates as quickly as electricity would be quite silly.

Any minable, PoW cryptocurrency is electricity-as-currency.

See pic related.

>>1567085
Electricity can't be easily transferable and can't be stored efficiently.

>>1569177
>wires and battery

>>1569179
How long does it take you to charge your phone, how long do batteries last.

>>1569180
>How long does it take you to charge your phone,
15 min
>how long do batteries last.
over 24 hours without watching videos

>>1567085
You can already produce energy and sell it back onto the grid in return for currency.

>>1567085

Energy already bought and sold easily enough. You can probably even sell power to your powergrid where you live.

What you're proposing already exists. You're just not using it as you described. Why? It's impractical - hard to store, hard to transfer and not intuitive.

>>1569187
Exactly, how are you going to pay for things. Storing large amount of electricity becomes unfeasible. What if your battery/capacitor bank fail?

>>1569192
flywheel then

>>1569194
ok 6/10

Energy is the currency of the future.

>Electricity leaks everywhere causing untold amounts of inflation

Leave your car in the snow over a winter and see how well it starts up in the spring. The main and most important flaw with this is that electricity cannot be stored perfectly. There are also massive losses when transmitting it from one person to the other. Also a lot of other technical details that would take too long to go over.

Cool idea. Not even possible.

>>1569313
This would be like inflation/devaluation on steroids.

>>1567088
>more valuable certificates could be issued for electricity derived from clean technology

This seems to undermine the idea. You produce one kWh of electricity, trade it for a certificate for exactly 1 kWh of electricity. You can't really sell a kWh created in an environmentally friendly way for, say, 2 kWh. Who is going to pay 2 kWh for 1 kWh? Who is even going to pay 1.0001 kWh for 1 kWh?

>>1567085
I want it to be paper.

>>1567085

Main reason is storage problems.
If everyone could just pocket 10GWh and use them as money it would be perfect. But as long as we don't have room temperature super conductors even transmitting will give you enormous losses and if you don't transmit you'll lose it over time too.
Maybe in the future when energy is a scarcity and we're a multiplanitary species so the highly advanced humans of the outer ring of the solar system will want to get as much energy from the inner ring as possible and exchange it for goods.

This is an interesting idea, so If my house consumes 11,700 kWh per year do I pay it with the notes or do the notes give me right to a certain kWh of production to cover it?

If I produce my own kWh with solars then how would I use it to pay at a store for potatoes?

Interesting concept just need to figure out that where the kWh would be store physically.

>>1569721
>so If my house consumes 11,700 kWh per year do I pay it with the notes
Yeah, although you'll likely have to pay more than 11,700 kWh worth of notes since the power company needs to make a profit, and they lose energy in the transmission and shit.

>>1567085
Using an input of production as currency.
Using a consumable good as currency.
Are you fucking retarded m8

>>1567085
electricity won't work as currency due to convenience.

You know why we use gold as a currency? Because using a gas like Xenon or a liquid like Mercury is fucking stupid. You have to keep them in containers and they can leak out. That's why a plasma like electricity would make a stupid currency.

Also, electricity is fucking dangerous. I'd rather not walk around with a god damn Tesla coil in my pocket instead of a hundred dollar bill. This is why we don't use radioactive elements as currency either, or sodium, because it fucking explodes when wet.

You know why else gold has been used as a currency for so long? Because there's just the right amount of scarcity. The noble metals like platinum, palladium, rhodium, iridium, osmium and ruthenium are so rare we'd be minting teeny-tiny coins.

You know why we don't use iron as a currency? Because it rusts. You dont want currency that literally disintegrates in your pocket, and that's what electricity would do. Also, if iron were a currency we'd have coins the size of pancakes because it's so common.

Electricity is:
>not rare
>dangerous
>self-debasing
>would render government minting obsolete since anyone with copper wire and a bicycle could mint their own currency all day

I'll trade you 2 alkaline for 6 lead acids man. That's as a good deal as your going to get around here.

>>1567104

Explain this project.