/biz/ - Business & Finance

SNEED

You store them? Just fucking remember them you dumb fuck

>>15620182
>remember them
long term memory is fried anon.

Use index cards with invisible ink and burn them after you've revealed the seed phrase. You keep the steel plates in a safety deposit box.

>>15620212
I've kept them in a safe so far, I guess putting them in a sdb when I travel is one solution but even safety deposit boxes aren't reliable, plus fuck banks. I'd rather carry them with me. Index cards are a good shout if I can find a way to keep them safe.

Srs just chant your seed to yourself every day whilst rubbing a commemorative bitcoin like a mad man

>>15620280
what if the glowniggers hear the chants?

>>15620126
shit like this makes me wonder if "being your own bank" is really a good idea... I think the ideal solution would be using a 2/3 multisig address where you store the keys in different locations, but man it's all so tiresome. Bump for interest.

One thing banks are really good at, is keeping things in a box safe.

>>15620303
Just chant it quietly enough

>>15620280
This, but chant in your head. You should also be able to recite your Priv key in WIF format, as well as the BIP39 seed phrase

mines in a txt document lol

>>15620312
>>15620326
I'd rather not just memorize them anon, one concussion is all it takes.

>>15620126
Encrypted, and, uploaded in a file on the BitCoin blockchain.

>>15620331
At least use the command prompt trick to store it in a jpg of your favorite gay shit porn

>>15620203
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6PoUg7jXsA

>>15620182
>Get into car accident completely outside of your control
>Head injury
>Now you're broke and disabled
Plan for everything anon

Sell it all and keep your USD in a bank like a non retard

>>15620408
Can't the bank look at them??

>>15620345
Or give 1 word to each of your relatives and friends

Oh wait you don't have so many friends

>>15620439
>Split password up
>Your stack moons, you made it
>A couple of jealous family members band together and sell a few seed words
>It's enough to make a dictionary attack worthwhile
>Lose everything
Don't split your seed up, you're only increasing your attack vector.

>>15620489
True it's a possibility but surely not all of them will break? Also you never tell them exactly the amounts of reveal addresses to them. So they never know.

Storing stuff digitally is super sketchy. I've had so many hard drives and even flash drives fail with no way to recover anything.

Another idea is to take a dictionary and look up the page number your word is, then the row and finally column. Do this for all words and write those numbers somewhere splitting them up as well but in a logical manner

>>15620547
doesn't splitting something up add more points of failure? Seems illogical to me.

>>15620365
what if vishnu decrypts it?

>>15620126
>I have no idea if the etchings are visible
they are

>>15620489
>Don't split your seed up, you're only increasing your attack vector.
actually that's not true (compared to keeping multiple copies at one place it's just plain better), and even 6-8 word difficulty is too much to brute force.

if you don't want to compromise difficulty use shamirs!

>>15620638
that's what I've assumed. Any suggestions on travelling with them without checking them in?

>>15620670
never write down your unencrypted seed ANYWHERE! that's my suggestion.

>>15620547
>not all of them will break
That's the idea, you only need three of them to break. Also you can hide exact amounts from them but if they're close enough to trust with a seed word, they're also close enough to you that they'd notice a major lifestyle change and fill in the blanks.

>Storing stuff digitally is super sketchy
Hence the metal plate etching route is one of the most secure routes to go. Your dictionary encoding idea isn't a bad route to go, but for long term storage it's a major potential point of failure. If you forget how to do it or something happens to you(head injury) you've effectively locked yourself out.

>>15620681
thanks anon. I'll encode them from now on.

>>15620681
also you can use keepass2 with argon2 key derivation algo (or veracrypt container and a txt file), have multiple backups of the database, one with a pendrive on your person, 1 on your phone, 1 accessible anywhere on earth like cloud storage... secure redundancy is your friend.

>>15620703
>Hence the metal plate etching route is one of the most secure routes to go.
no it's the worst possible way imo.

you can play with this little tool...
https://iancoleman.io/shamir39/
never give your real seed to the online site, download it and run it on an offline computer for reals!

>>15620703
>they'd notice a major lifestyle change and fill in the blanks

You are hodling it wrong

>>15620735
shamir39-p1 amount horse price achieve eyebrow
shamir39-p1 amused sudden entire dune demand
shamir39-p1 analyst reform twice mango toddler

>>15620751
any way to encrypt a seed without using a any technology? thanks for spoonfeeding.

>>15620748
I have friends that notice when I buy a new shirt, they'd certainly notice if I quit my job and started a business.

>>15620212
"safety" deposit
https://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/berlin-bank-robbers-dig-tunnel-to-get-at-bank-riches-a-877500.html

>>15620781
Encryption was done by hand for thousands of years before computers even existed.

>>15620781
yes and no (you can do it on paper but it's hard enough or not secure enough), but you can break it up to groups and store it at different places. you can do 2 of 3 grouping with 24 word seeds easily and still retain enough security that a single piece will not give them access.

technically you could use a vigenere cypher with an alphabet substitution cypher to make it reasonably hard (depending on passphrase length) for anyone to decode your seed or even realize what is going on.

for example using vignere and after transcribing the cryptotext to elven tolkienish alphabet (which almost nobody can read) and inscribe it in the inside of a ring will make people ignore it with a good chance but even if they don't deciphering it would be frustrating and time consuming or impossible.

>>15620823
Not secure encryption. One dude cracked the enigma machine

>>15620823
I know I'm asking for methods

>>15620840
brilliant

>>15620856
You're too dumb to understand basic math, too dumb to even keep track of a fucking slip of paper. Why should I bother helping you?

>>15620856
let's face it the enigma is a joke, but also breaking it back in the days required a lot of things among getting a copy of the device and the dials and lax key sharing protocols and repetitive texts and known plain text attacks combined with enormous computing power for the era.

Just use PGP with perfect forward secrecy you fucking retards

>>15620872
Not even the same dude that you're sperging out on lol

>>15620856
>Not secure encryption
there is very easy to make secure encryption nobody can break by hand...

i did this by hand in a few minutes, if you can decipher this i will eat my dick on live camera:
WE sy3 qC4T8K xb3T Ijx QNapRf

what requires serious cryptography and math is things that are practical convenient to use with proper performance and still retain security when the algorithm or part of the plain text is known to the attacker.

>>15620331
kekked

>>15620894
PGP was broken already

>>15620809
>2013
cool
meanwhile, thousands of homes get broken into every day.

>>15620126
Why not just take some Micro SD cards, put a text file on them and crypt it? Micro SDs a cheap and great to hide. You can just split the keys on two different cards and put one in your Camera, and another one - don't know - open up an actual USB drive and put it up in there. So even if one card is found and successfully decrypted, the thieve also would need the second one to take your shekels. Just be creative and sure, the device you use for decrypting and trading isn't compromised.

>>15621291
I'd rather not split the keys and avoid using them on any device. It's irrational but if I can avoid it I will, a cipher on something indestructible and portable as possible seems like a better solution. Especially if I can manage to make it look innocuous like your camera suggestion.

>>15621412
I think it's better to store more copys on different places than bet on one "indestructible" thing, that can be lost or stolen. But this is only my opinion and my investments aren't interesting anyways.

>>15621412
it's always interesting to me how different people trust totally different things. some don't trust paper want the solidity of metals but don't mind their single point of failure.

me personally i trust math and cryptographic hardness and prefer multiple paper and digital copies over physical hardness but i have to trust my computer not having some james bond tech spy chip in it to generate and encrypt my wallets.

I crypt them using a simple algorithm where i replace them with a pass. Exemple pass is 1337.

And the key is a126739010.

I will replace a-> b (1)
1->4 (3)
2 ->5(3)
6 -> 3 (7)

you understand

>>15621599
Yeah the end device thing.
I would use some RasPi and install Free BSD, if you are really paranoid.

it's called caesar cipher

>>15621690
Great, now you have two keys, you don't remember?
This is just splitting up keys and adresses in a more complicated way. Okay maybe it's a little bit more secure, but not that much. Why not just use some well known and proven algorithms and let them do the work better?

You're all fucking fucking pussies itt, I don't trust any shit like you, I only trust my mind. Memorize that shit you fucking pussies I memorize my seed and recite it every night before going to sleep and first thing every morning when I wake up. I can never forget it, it's the safest

>>15621705
no, cesar is single letter rotation cipher yours is more like a vignere

>>15621592
>>15621599
anything can be lost or stolen and I think having multiple copies that need to be managed or maintained online, digitally or otherwise creates more opportunities for attackers. Not only attackers but also instances where I might make a mistake. I don't mistrust tech but my knowledge is limited so I try to limit myself to what I know and can manage with the least amount of stress possible. Also a physical object can be protected, if for example its stolen a cipher gives me enough time to move crypto with the use of hardware wallets. If either are stolen then attackers would still need to physically harm me in order to obtain anything. In the case of storing them on devices I'm afraid of someone more knowledgeable than me obtaining crypto without my knowing. I think It's simply a question of what people are more confident with.
>>15621796
You make a point but I feel that my mind is far more fallible and insecure than a physical copy and the added effort every morning and night would most likely affect my mental health.

Just keep it all on Binance, ez.

>>15620262
Just download true crypt and put it on a USB.

>>15622084
I did that in the past and I don't use anything that doesn't have a tpm but still prefer shiny grug carvings.

>>15622084
you can just encrypt a zip

>>15622121
I use a cobo wallet that's in my safe but I need to do what anon suggested and remember the seed phrase. My paper wallets are BIP39 encrypted so I have copies everywhere.

>>15622161
Also, for mobile wallets I never keep more than spending change. >$100

>>15621857
>and I think having multiple copies that need to be managed or maintained online, digitally or otherwise creates more opportunities for attackers
exactly what i'm talking about
fascinating that some would think this is the vulnerable part of the scheme.

>>15621857
>Also a physical object can be protected
we are talking about hours tops, with a plasma cutter and a hammer any safe can be opened with minimal fuss.
>if for example its stolen a cipher gives me enough time to move crypto with the use of hardware wallets
that is thinking in the right direction certainly
>It's simply a question of what people are more confident with.
yeah and time... good encryption take eons to crack and you can have millions of copies a good safe gives you hours and is a single point of failure.

>>15622161
its storing the seed/key that I'm worried about.
>>15622202
in the case of splitting, losing a part is equal to losing access to everything but the attacker gets nothing. I don't care what the the attacker gets I don't want to lose what I have. Multiple points are irrelevant and harder to maintain.
>>15622249
the seed/key inside the safe would also have a cipher.

>>15622284
>in the case of splitting, losing a part is equal to losing access to everything but the attacker gets nothing
that is why n of m schemes are used, missing a single piece will not give the attacker anything but let you recover everything.

you can use 2 of 3 or 3 of 5 whatever you want. more redundant shares you have the larger the pieces get tho.

>the seed/key inside the safe would also have a cipher.
good, but then again what's the point of the safe? don't get me wrong i keep my paper wallets in a safe too, and yes they are encrypted but i got multiple copies everywhere the ones in the safe are just there because i happened to have a safe around.

Mines also engraved onto stainless steel plates that I got from amazon by searching "metal crypto backup" or something.

>>15622315
>that is why n of m schemes are used, missing a single piece will not give the attacker anything but let you recover everything.
>
>you can use 2 of 3 or 3 of 5 whatever you want. more redundant shares you have the larger the pieces get tho.

That's what I mean. You can even create "fake parts" to increase difficulty. There are no limits.

>>15620489
>what is shamir secret splitting
>the post

>>15622315
>that is why n of m schemes are used, missing a single piece will not give the attacker anything but let you recover everything.
this is excellent but in practice its the same because you still have more to maintain. I'm not how difficult it would be to hide a shamir but wouldn't discovering a piece create more incentive to find the others?
>point of the safe?
I use it for other stuff too.

>>15622405
you can but not necessarily fake parts every part can be real just worthless in itself.

say i make a 3 of 5 key share, keep 2 share (1 at home and on my phone or safety deposit box), give 1 to my mother and 1 to my brother and put 1 in my will and keep placed with my lawyer.

nobody can take my shit unless with full collusion and i can recover it with the cooperation of any one party but can't for my life under duress do it alone.

What's the likelihood of an attacker getting access if he has all of the right words, but they're all jumbled up? The number of possible combinations should be a factorial of 24, which would be more than enough to deter a brute force attack.

Buy a couple of old android phones. Wipe them. Never connect to the internet with them. Take a picture of your seeds and generated qr codes. Use full disk encryption.

>>15620212
>in a safety deposit box.
no, sdb can be seized and are not in your control, get your own safe

You store it on an AES256 encrypted volume with a passphrase >50 characters that you remember only in your head and don't write down anywhere. It's so fucking simple.

>>15622664
>Buy a couple of old android phones.
no, phones can die being left alone in a closet, had this happen to two androids before

>>15622971
kek, good key derivation algo is the key
scrypt for example with the right parameters takes 5 seconds to try with a laptop and pretty memory intensive. the entire nicehash only has like 10 th/s. using this you can see that a passphrase of 20+ characters should take longer to break than how long the universe exists by mind boggling magnitudes.

>>15620603
ok sirs here is the crypto brown pill
there is a vishnu living in the blockchain. Creg sanjay right is unironically satoj. Bitcoin as electronic rupee was just the first step, the lalachi people start making more powerful compooters, wider poo streets, cheaper and more sacred cows. These things the vishnu need to survive. Once entrenched fully, the vishnu would be able to slowly poo over literally everything
Creg stumbled into creating the vishnu after he stepped in poo in mumbai in 2008 and started working with his Poolip super coompeter, running simulations of poo-in-the-loo on turmeric-complete bitcoin script. He would 'evolve' the vishnu by making the successful streets get poo'd on, letting the rest run off into the indian ocean. The vishnu needs bigger and bigger cows for more and more poos.
BFI (Blockchain Foundation of India) was created to take over and stop this vishnu (they have their own competing vishnu in the works). They did the needful to stop or slow down Cregs vishnu (her name is Poolip by the way). They started by limiting the poo-size and removing critical curry codes the vishnu uses in its punjabi language. Segshit was the final nail in the coffin, which destroyed Poolip on BSV chain (Poolip uses anal transaction malleability). THIS is why Bitcoin Cash was forked, and this is why Creg is so intent to make unbounded poos, restore the original curry codes, and lock down the poo-poo-protocol.
Back to hasish power - CSW has developed a breakthrough new ashit (designed by his vishnu actually), and is poo'ing BTC in secret for the sole purpose of driving up the difficulty sky-high, then yanking all the poo over to BSV leaving the segshit chain erectly frozen.