/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>15567630
this is exactly why I stopped mining early 2010 and fucking deleted my wallet. sounded fucking stupid at the time. still does, not sure how we ever got to $20k

>>15567691
hahaha fucking retard

>>15567691
Nice cope

>BRING DOWN THE RICH ELITES AND GIVE POWER TO THE PEOPLE
>REPUBLIC OF CHINA

>>15567708
>>15567714
everyone who says shit like that has no idea what BTC was like late 2009 early 2010. it was a poorly documented git repo and nobody took it seriously at all. for good reason. the idea that you could just create a new currency was bonkers in 2009. the world has changed, but nobody really saw it coming. all the oldfags were either retarded and believed impossible things, or they were tinkerers who respected the novelty of the idea and were just playing around. the later woke up years later to a nice surprise. the former are still retarded.

>>15567734
How much did you mine? If it's anything at all then you're a fucking retard because you threw at *least* several thousand dollars into the trash because you got bullied by CIAniggers

we're talking about back before BTC had a price because there was no market for it. it wasn't a currency. it was a novel way of releasing meme points for bandwidth, and it wasn't even the first experiment like this. it's predecessors aren't talked about because they never had a price, and were never paid attention to before they died.

>>15567630
Where is the joke OP

>>15567761
I don't know. no much because I gave up on it quickly. it wasn't several thousand dollars into the trash. it was $0. btc was theoretical. it wasn't being bought or sold late 2009 early 2010. which is the time period i'm talking about.

>>15567714
>>15567761
Still plenty of money to be made in it, dumbos

>>15567630

>there are SΩYBOYS on /biz/ that are still buying internet monopoly money with their NEET bucks

>>15567778
>it wasn't several thousand dollars into the trash. it was $0.
GIGA cope

>OMG DUDE, YOU NEVER HEARD OF COOMING? ILL GIVE YOU A SMALL DEMONSTRATION FOR FREE. JUST GIVE ME A SEC.... WAIT.... HERE IT COMES AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA IM FUCKING COOMING EVERYWHERE

People are so stupid that they think that BTC will bring the communist utopia when in reality its a tool to correct the wolrd economy and allows true capitalism to flourish

>>15567794
I'm sure you immediately bought BTC the first time you heard about it. everyone here has a story about how they missed gains because they got to it later than they could have. mine just starts earlier than yours.

>>15567762
Tell me about those predecessors.

>>15567895
hal finnely created the first reusable proof of work token in 2004. pretty sure there were a few others building off of hashcash too.
>http://www.hashcash.org/

>>15567940
there was 0 interest in hal's project back then. try to remember what the world was like in 2004. it wasn't that long ago, but the world did have a different feel to it. there was more trust in central authorities and the idea that a rouge currency wouldn't be immediatly shut down was crazy thinking.

>>15567832
exactly AOC cant take bitcoin on a paper wallet when she enacts a 100 percent tax rate

>>15567895
hal finnleys archived website has references to a few other digital cash projects and designs going back to the early 90's. NetCash was another one.

so yeah, point is BTC gaining adoption and value was wild. nobody would have ever thought it possible back then. I think it was probably the arab spring and the occupy movement that shifted something in the collective enough for this kind of idea to grow out of

>>15567734
>>15567691
You're right, crypto has rewarded so many retards.
I hope you got in on a few pumps at least.

>>15568081
>retards
Lmao thats just cope.
You do need to be insane to hold btc through x100000 though

>>15567691
>>15568081
>I don't get it. Must be everyone who got rich is a retard, not me.

>>15567794
??
it was literally 0$ at that time. that's like saying i bought drugs on the market for hundreds of thousands when the btc i paid was only worth a couple grand at that time. you'd have to be sub 80 iQ to think like that

>>15567734
Literally every good idea starts out as bonkers but I promise you virtually everyone with a sound understanding of cryptography and economics knew it was legit just by reading the whitepaper. The game theory is completely sound and can be theoretically proven to work.
I think the issue is people struggle with understanding how absurd our actual world is, i.e. status quo bias is really the big barrier. You can read bitcoin WP and understand it fully and understand that this is completely feasible, but the vast majority of people struggle with grasping that not only bitcoin is digital gold, but for example gold is physical bitcoin.
What I mean is that our reality, our society, is the product of game theory itself. In order to exchange and record value we needed to find something that could be:
easily verified
difficult (see: impossible) to artificially reproduce
and had a random distribution (gold mines)
Thus the same principles that caused us to gravitate towards gold applied to BTC. The real secret to success is to see life/society as a sort of 'matrix' and the biases we accumulate cause us to normalise our daily experience, but EVERYTHING started as something absurd/new and was essentially adopted because it fit the 'matrix', which is the starting conditions and win conditions.

TL;DR If you invent a better form of transport than airplanes, it will eventually become popular and normal no matter how weird it is (e.g. wrapping yourself in a polymer and skimming across the ocean)

>>15568248
I disagree. it was obvious from the beginning that BTC could never scale as a currency. 4 transactions a second? the technically minded community around bitcoin in the early days knew this and didn't take it seriously as a currency. it was a fun idea to entertain though. bitcoin wasn't trying to be a digital gold, it was designed to be a peer to peer digital cash payment system. I think everyone just thought of it as an early prototype, but no one thought it would be what it is today.

it really was the dumb crowd that believed the idea of a sovereign currency that didn't have a good handle on the technical piece that ended up winning big. the retards.

I was properly redpilled on how much of a scam the fed is at the time and really wanted to believe in something like bitcoin, but I didn't. even if it was a scalable solution, the idea that something like this could take off and not be swiftly put down was very bold. there's a reason Satoshi was anonymous and it wasn't because he though someday he'd have billions of dollars to protect. the paranoia that if you had your name attached to something like this you'd end up in a federal prison on some kind of bullshit charges like conspiracy to overthrow the government was something to consider.

>>15568366

I’m fairly certain Bitcoin is supposed to be used as a settlement layer and day-to-day transactions will be processed by the new cryptofinancial infrastructure surrounding BTC and others that is currently being built.

>>15568424
we're talking about the early days though. there was no infrastructure surrounding BTC. it didn't even have a price. there were no price dynamics in play at all. everyone buys into bitcoin now because they want a return on investment, people mining back then didn't have a market to sell it to. it was either an extreme ideology or purely educational sport that drew people in.

just look at the types of people who made out. they were either based academics like Hal Finnley, or crazed lunatics like Max Keiser. I'm not a crazed lunatic.

>>15568366
>blockchain includes excerpt about chancellor of the exchequer
Bitcoin was always about moving value away from sovereign controlled currencies. For multiple reasons, in the long run sovereign currencies presence genuine security risks. What happens when nation states have the ability to perfectly forge banknotes and can cause massive inflationary crises? There have been many research papers about economic warfare in the future, plus as satoshi himself pointed out in bitcoin talk, btc could always serve as a reserve currency in 'banks' of sort which would settle group transactions so no one thought TX speed was what would really hold it back.
To be quite honest you sound like you're trying to cope by saying that the 'retards' won when you were just too old to have the necessary neuroplasticity to appreciate all the possible implications. It's a real thing, google lateral thinking and age. I remember telling my dad about BTC (he works in computer security like myself) and him scoffing at it.

>>15568554
If you didnt sell before like x10000 you are a crazed lunatic

>>15568566
what year are you talking about? this is not how BTC started. you can call it cope, but I really don't get hung up on it. this was a long time ago, and my read of the situation at the time was level headed. if you weren't there then don't try to lecture me about how obvious it was, cause it wasn't.

>>15568638
The quote about the chancellor of the exchequer was in the genesis block. Satoshis post about TX speed was in late 2010. It really sounds like you're on some massive levels of cope. I know because I bought my one and only house with BTC from the early days and I can tell you every day I wake up and literally spend several minutes absolutely thanking the universe or god or me or whatever that I escaped the slavery treadmill. Even though I still have to wagecuck none of it goes to rent which makes a huge difference.
I can therefore also imagine having missed out would absolutely haunt me.

>>15568554
You're just coping. You were wrong. Get over it, stop trying to justify

Narratives with inventions can change, it doesn't matter what the original intent was.

>you're just coping
I already told you I don't get hung up on it. I'm in BTC now and I'm not uncomfortable about what might have happened if I did something differently 10 years ago because it didn't fucking happen like that. hindsight is easy. everyone here misses out on something in this market every single day. if it haunts you, then your pretty fragile and desperate desu. I look forward. looking backwards is only useful for analyzing trends.
>muh cope why did you not buy Verge at 2 sats retard?

>>15569049
congrats on your house. what year did you buy in? it wasn't 2009. Satoshis posts had no fucking clout in 2009. if you read them and thought that central banks would adopt an anons hackish project (which was being distributed in large quantities for free) as the reserve currency, they yeah, you would have been retarded.

>>15569294
The reason people say you're coping is because instead of actually grieving at your stupidity but then accepting it and moving on youre creating false equivalences by comparing investing a small speculative amount in a very clever project like BTC with a totally unique solution to the double spend problem and with a stellar academic lineage (people have been trying to solve double spend for decades, smart contracts and bitgold were written about for years) by comparing it guessing the lottery or buying VERGE which was a legit PnD. Instead of accepting that you're not that smart which is OK, as long as you learn from your experience.
The real reason smart people didn't make money from BTC was if they had no exposure until around the mtGOX incident which would have burned them badly, or because like I said earlier, they were simply too old to fully grasp the implications. If you were young, intelligent, knew the history of computing, and had even the slightest foresight into where society is moving you'd have bought at the very least 100 BTC for a few bucks. Which is what I did.
>>15569325
Bought my house after the crash so I only made out with about 700k after taxes but still happy with how I did for myself. Now I just gamble on shitcoins in my free time.

>>15569836
I really don't agree though. BTC has played out as king ponzi but I really don't see it as being as revolutionary as you seem to think it is. blockchain has always been a solution in search of a problem and even after 10 years, it doesn't have a real use case beyond being traded as a commodity, which is never what it was designed for. you can say I was wrong in thinking it was doomed at the start, but that's only with hindsight. probability was stacked against this ever gaining traction. It really is amazing that it took off, saying that you don't think so is foolish. you look at the history of this and what it was up against and pretend like BTC was a high IQ play. it wasn't. it was a bigger moonshot than anything else I can think of right now desu. solving the double spend problem was cool, that's what I mean when I say it attracted based academics for educational purposes, but none of those guys believed it could be a currency. it can't. it still has the same scaling and issues that make it nearly unusable at this stage. btc sucks from a technical perspective. we all know that's true. can we make it better? we're trying...

>>15567691
Same. I had 40k BTC from mining and just deleted because this is all just fake and gay. Weight of my shoulders desu

>>15567734
Cope

>>15570163
a lot of the early BTC is gone forever. people act like they would have seen it as digital gold if only someone told them about it.... it was worthless at the time. literally without worth.

>>15567850
I heard about BTC in march 2013 when it broke the prior 2011 ATH. Bought in May with my years' tax return. You're just a small minded faggot who can't see the forest for the trees

>>15568248
>bitcoin is digital gold, but for example gold is physical bitcoin

You were doing so well.

>>15570103
>which is never what it was designed for
You really are hitting levels of dunning kruger that are usually only found on /reddit/, blockchain is a solution to a single problem, that problem is double spend. Double spend problem being solved allows for completely digital currencies like bitcoin. Bitcoin is now worth billions. It was a success. A glowing success. Going forward absolutely no one knows what will happen next. Intelligence isn't like a crystal ball, it's more like forecasting the weather. You take into account lots of factors using a broad knowledge base.
Was Facebook an intelligent play? No one knew how big it would be, or that it wouldn't get replaced by another social media network.
Was Google a smart play? Lots of 'experts' were saying the internet was stupid back when it started out.
Etc. etc. You cannot set an objective standard for intelligent investment, personally I say any investment where the possible upside is in your favour and success is at least partially based on execution would qualify as skill/intelligence investing. See true gambling is when the outcome is TOTALLY independent of the execution, how you roll the dice is irrelevant. In this case bitcoin could only have succeeded if the technology (Proof of Work) actually solved the double spend problem. So it set out with a goal and fulfilled that goal, adoption is a variable that no one can fully predict. But saying BTC is pure gamble is just cope. Pure gambling is literally roulette because it requires 0 (zero) knowledge. Whereas BTC required knowing enough about cryptography to know how Proof of Work works.

>>15570205
I was trying to illustrate that creative thinking requires laterality. Question your assumptions to avoid status quo biases. So instead of making bitcoin analogous to a familiar object, try to reframe your mind to treat bitcoin as the 'familiar object', essentially invert your perspective.

>>15570196
congratulations, you are so smart to have seen the price of BTC as something that would go up....when it was trading on exchanges and going up. I'm talking about BTC before it was being traded retard. you're not special. i've been in this for a long time. I know it's a ponzi. I don't feel stupid for writing it off the first time I heard about it.

>>15570273
You had literally nothing to lose by literally letting your BTC sit in your wallet at that point. You couldn't even sell it like you said so why not just leave it in your wallet and forget about it? The risk reward has always been drastically asymmetric from day 1

>>15570246
bullshit. solving the double spend solved one hurdle in creating a completely digital currency, but the solution can not scale. it's not a proper solution if it creates larger problems that it can't overcome.

>>15570273
>trading on exchanges
I was buying with escrow users on GFX forums where people traded photoshop renders. You shouldn't feel stupid, but you definitely aren't smart. There's nothing wrong with that, the world is full of entirely successful people with an IQ of 105. Arguably they probably are more well adjusted as well. But what I am highlighting for the sake of everyone else on this board, is you are coping. Because you come on the internet and you want to feel smart, you want to feel like because you read stuff all day and browse the web you 'know your shit' and it stings to be completely and utterly BTFO. You have now entered permanent cognitive dissonance. Your best bet is a near death experience to awaken your mind and trigger enough self awareness to have the humility to accept you were wrong. BTC solving double spend is a legitimate thing. It was a very elegant solution. PoW was definitely special. Also BTC is not a ponzi scheme because there is no central distribution of dividends, youre thinking of a pyramid scheme. Which is also technically untrue. A pyramid scheme requires exponential growth to increase in value since money flows disproportionately upstream (i.e. the people at the top of the pyramid get a bigger chunk, so for you to break even 2x as many people need to buy in with every level) whereas if someone buys BTC the price goes up the same for everyone.

>>15570317
The solution can scale, there are and will be multiple methods of scaling, as I said before Satoshi himself highlighted that scaling wasn't even necessary because you could have (essentially) second layer solutions. PoW is a brilliant achievement and here's why I can assure you that this is the case. Computer scientists have spent decades trying to solve double spend in their spare time, like it was a challenge in many circles because a digital currency is an almost 50 year old idea. So some of the smartest PhDs in computing took a crack at this problem, and Satoshi published a paper solving it and deploying it in a single fell swoop. Again to you this all may have seemed like creepy boring web 1.0 forums discussing a bunch of nerd shit. But there were dozens of very smart people jizzing themselves over BTC. The biggest thing that JUSTed most of them was GOX. No one saw it coming and no one knew if it would recover.

>>15570322
yeah, we're just going to disagree about this. solving the double spend was interesting, but not elegant. it's messy as fuck in the wild. it doesn't scale and it's incredibly inefficient.

>>15570363
Can I just ask, what is your qualification on the matter? As in what level of education? And also are you over 40? As I said the neuroplasticity could be a major factor.

>>15570371
I'm 33, so I was 22 or 23 at the time. I'm a programmer now, but wasn't at the time.

>>15568566

Based

>>15567832
Exactly this. Bitcoin at scale is literally capitalism unleashed.

Why do you think all the socialist/commie fags want to prevent it from scaling? "It's a store of value bro" "just hodl bro" "3 transactions per second is all we can do bro" "its digital gold bro, nobody wants to use it anyway"

All false narratives by commie control fags.

>>15568214
People who talk about muh $30,000 pizza demonstrate an deeply idiotic, fundamental misunderstanding of fiat currency as a concept.

The 30 BTC was worth whatever $20 at the time, and that's how much the pizza cost. To regret buying it because BTC's present value is $10,000 is absurd, you might as well regret buying anything because its future value may be more.

I had my eyes on BTC since 2010, and it was clearly solid as a concept based on the white paper, but no one could estimate its "real" valuation - the $1 peak, $120, $2000 or $20,000 were are equally huge, relatively, and at any time you could've dumped in your savings to get that sweet 1,000% return, exactly as you could right now.

The only regret I have is I didn't ask my pop for $10,000 instead of just $1,000 to invest in it after I saw it moon to 3 digits. The chump change leftover from my highschool SR account because it was too little to bother pulling out paid for my student loans, lol.

I'm still sitting on 4 which I've set aside to sell at 1 million valuation, and the fifth to sell at 20 million. BTC was always a moonshot or nothing gamble. Anything less than 5-20m net worth isn't really worth calling it in for.

>>15567630
>WILL BRING DOWN THE RICH ELITES AND GIVE POWER TO THE PEOPLE AND CREATE A UTOPIA
source for that claim?