/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>15187413
I'm 25. I live with my parents and hope to buy a house in the next five years. But I always think of how lonely I'd be. If I buy a house, I think I'll need an in-law apartment so that my parents can live with me.

Overvalued. Wait about 5-10 years. Within that range, probably 7.

>>15187413
>cheap money
>expensive houses

That's why.

>Median American household Income 59k
>median American house price $226k
>median American health insurance family plan premium $1,100

Let's be generous and say that the take home is $3,500 a month. Let's be generous and say that the monthly insurance is $700. Let's be generous and say that the average person is financing 150k for 30 and 2.5. $592 a month. PMI, add $100. a single car payment $200 (it's higher for sure)

3500- 700 -592 -100 -200
>$1908
utilities, food, etc. That's one person. $600-$700 single person rent or house isn't out of the norm. Imagine two car payments. Imagine food for two. Etc.

Your average American is in a very bad spot financially. J used median numbers because it's more accurate, but you get the idea

>>15187413
Bought a house years ago, Id have been better off just renting and putting that down payment cash into crypto or even stocks.

>>15187538
Hindsight is 20/20.

Because the poisoned capitalism we live under is designed to keep you below the threshold of success

Because I don't want to be trapped in some shit hole city lmao get fukt Boomer

For the poor: they can't afford it.
For the middle-class: It binds you in place. In many professions (IT, engineering) you advance by taking a better job every 2-4 years. You don't want to get stuck in some rural shithole when you have offers for +30-50%.

Also it's a very log term investment with high risks. If the local economy crashes, house prices fall to 0. And most small towns aren't doing great.

>>15187413
I love this thread, every day it's posted.

And the answer is I'm waiting for the Fed to lower rates another 2.75%.

>>15187430
Oh yeah, that too. Maybe get a dog instead? But it sucks I'd have to leave him alone while I'm at work.

i said at $3000 btc i'd rather buy btc, but I bought alts lol. I'd still buy btc at this point over homes. shiller home price index is showing we're even more overpriced than the 2008 housing bubble.

zoning laws, hoa restrictions, its all a scam to keep you feeding money to realtors and bankers. I want to create a town where people can 3D concrete print their homes for $2000. I'd hope it wouldn't only attract niggers. but if it caught on imagine a world where you wouldn't have to wagecuck for decades just to have a spot to sleep at night.

>>15187413
Price of housing is over inflated currently.

>>15187735

Do you see rates dropping further? Personally I’m also waiting until closer to next election to refinance my home to purchase another.

>>15187413
houses are not worth half of what the boomers and chinese are asking for them. i will wait for the crash to use my VA hone loan

>>15188057
if trump man becomes president again, interest rates to 1%. screen cap this.

>>15187413
>'oh my god we have too much debt what are we going to do!'
>'i know cut the interest rate so we can sucker more people into taking on more debt and reinflating the house bubble'
>'genius idea!'
at least this is the situation in australia.
fuck the banks and fuck unproductive debt allocation.

>>15188081
since when does the president decides on interest rates?

It's a strange situation with Millennials. They're considered the most entitled generation yet the society seems entitled to demand the most out of them. Why aren't Millennials doing x. Why aren't Millennials doing y. Millennials are killing z.

>>15187430
This is based as fuck anon. I wish I was that close with my parents.

>>15188057
plenty of economists are pencilling in more interest rate cuts, it will be a race to the bottom as everyone tries to destroy their currency as much as possible so they can stay competitive during a global recession.

>>15187430
>waaah millenials are killing retirement homes

you're doing God's work, anon

>live in small SC town
>about 45 minutes from Charlotte, NC
>median income for town is 42k
>I make 62k
>bankers moved down here to avoid Charlotte cost of living and taxes
>homes now starting in the 400k range

Only thing affordable down here are apartments and even those are fucking rip-offs. A traditional starter home in this area now starts around 180k and requires a fair amount of upgrades just to be livable.

>inb4 stop being poor

>>15188112
Your right, I plan on continuing to be a cheap frugal fuck to spite over this debt based ponzi economy. Bust you mother fuckers bust.

>>15188159
Stop being poor and give those bankers a good handshake and if that doesnt work invest in diamond encrusted kneepads to show them whose boss!

>>15188112
The millenials are entitled meme was a poor attempt by boomers to coerce them into buying their bags. Backfired badly. Millenials will just watch the failures of the last 80 years burn down and cheer at the flames while their parents and uncles die in poverty deperately trying to finance their medical bills.

Boomers can be happy that Millenials are kind of lazy, else they would hang

>>15188160
keep doing what you are doing, as long as you aren't in debt you are above 90% of the economy. fuck this current world economy.

>>15187554
>being kept under a threshold of success
>capitalism
Which system do you think gave normies success?

>>15188168
I'll do my best m8

>>15188109
Trump is leaning on the Fed because he knows even a hiccup in the economy will send us into depression because every normie is leveraged to the gills and the last 10 years of 'economic growth' are entirely built on cheap debt so he'd rather kick the can than fix it. Of course, no one can actually fix it but the boomers are hoping to die before the market corrects.

>>15188169
this was powerful

>>15187413
People really don't realize the effects that job security has on home ownership. Very few people these days actually have good and stable careers with family companies that they know they can work at their whole lives if they want to. Who the fuck would buy a house if they knew that their employer could terminate them after 2-3 years because they don't want to pay them more? And then, they just go hire a new person to do the same job for less money. When you really think about it, outsourcing is what totally fucked the housing market.

>>15187771
You're retarded if you think we're in a more overpriced point than 2008. Economy is way better. Brown people aren't getting stupid loans. Builders can't keep up with demand. Only thing to worry about is foreign money propping up certain areas. There are some really great areas to buy in where gains are gonna keep going for 10-15 years. All about where you buy.

>>15188169
Wise words Anon

Unironically bought the bottom in 2010. Got a good price on the home and I got a 15 yr mortgage at 3.25%.

Wouldn't buy now.

>>15187413
Because most of you are lazy, entitled cunts. Average home price 226k. AVERAGE! I bought a starter home. The shitiest home in the best neighborhood I could afford. $120k. Fixed it up, and now I am sitting on a pile of equity

Hmm, I wonder why...

WHY THE FUCK DID PEOPLE LEARN FROM THE 2008 CRISIS????

It's not like I'm going to get laid even with my own house so I might as well just stay with my parents.

>>15188288
>learn
What do you mean? The banks got bailed out then used that money to buy even more houses for cheaper. 2008 was a great success.

in oz medium wage price! 60k
medium house price 1-1.5 M
Fucking Boomers!!!!!!!!!
pump the market and sell to other boomers
fucking crash country

>>15187519
>>Median American household Income 59k
>>median American house price $226k

Much better position than Australians are in

>>15188276
my area is a small city with low wages. $220k is the cheapest house, $300k is average. I'd consider moving but everywhere else looks even worse, excepting 5000 population towns with no need for my occupation

Can somebody explain me how low key rate is bad? I am from Russia, here we have 4-5% inflation, 7.25% key rate, 10-12% on mortgages. Looking at you US-/EU-cucks and wishing to have the same rates as you do.
Btw when our central bank lowers the key rate markets usually go green for a few days.

>>15188736
>interest rate goes down
>costs rich people less over time to own more homes
>they buy the homes offering more than you can
>house prices skyrocket
It's how we went from the biggest house crash in the history of the modern world to, 8 years later, an even bigger housing bubble

>>15187413
>zero stable jobs anywhere on earth
>typical house value is 25x salary
>thinking a bank will give some self taught java musician a 25 year mortgage

You as a obvious question and the answer is all around you.

>>15187519
I make 50k a year and easily bought a 150k house. Mortgage payment is 897 a month. Easily doable and it's just me

>>15188781
I’ve been with the same company for 7 years now started at 18

>>15187413
they are still retardedly expensive and everyone younger than boomers are broke, also fuck mortgages

I'm a zoomer and I bought a house, millennials are gay.

>>15188793
good for you and your uncles restaurant. ive moved to italy and back in that time which means i get fucked on financial products, especially insurance and loans.

>>15188785
Youre paying like 300k over the life of the loan

>>15187519
>median INDIVIDUAL income, 39k

>>15188820
I work in manufacturing, more specifically automotive

Get fucked euronigger I’ll be working for my jap company for 40 years

>>15188825
It doesn't mean he's going to keep it for the entire term of the loan. He can sell it. Plus there's a potential to make some return. Renting is trash, it's expensive and you have no equity.

>>15188829
Its 30k

>>15188736
its only really bad when it get critically low like most countries are now a days (-0 to 1%), basically the lower you get the lower the interest on loans and debts, which incentivises people to take on more, banks will also cut the interest you get from savings and at negative rates the idea would be you pay the bank to hold your money. cutting the rate is essentially used to stimulate growth in a slowing economy by forcing inactive money to be used.

>>15188855
Feels good to be earning what 2% of Americans make.

>>15188845
i mean you probably will be fine. but care because cars are one of the first things to be thrown out the window during economic instability which might slow the industry down and cutting jobs.

>>15188896
If it were GM or Ford I would worry more, but it’s not and there is a shortage of people with the skills needed for the job so even if something happens I’m gonna get 10 years minimum

>>15187413
I honestly don't have a clue where I am going to wind up in 5 years. Maybe I'll keep working for my current company, maybe I'll decide to move back to the Bay, maybe I'll go someplace completely different. There's no point in sinking a ton of money into a house and paying taxes and fees just to have to sell it two years later

>>15188855
What!? It either changed by a lot or I got it wrong. 30k!?

>>15188855
My college degree has been utterly useless. In a 2080 hour work year I've literally only had 1 job thats paid me more than that average, it didn't require a degree either. I also quit that job in less than a month.

>>15188858
>at negative rates the idea would be you pay the bank to hold your money
Tell the bank to fuck off, hold on to your cash & enjoy the deflation. Am I getting it wrong?

>>15189003
no you aren't wrong. negative interest rates are fucked up, the opposite can happen to loans where the bank will pay you interest to take a loan. also when banks are looking shaky because of the global debt and may need bailing out it seems pretty good to have your money almost anywhere else that isn't in a bank regardless.

>>15188997
many such cases. a college degree is terrible investment for 80 percent

>>15188855
The numbers they are using are looking at net (take home) pay. Not gross pay like we usually compare. That's why it looks like the whole nation is in poverty. The average is around 60k

>>15187413
No one should buy anything if you can avoid it. Homes will be so cheap in 10 years they’ll be giving them away. I sold my two ApTs just for the cash. Most boomers have no retirement accounts...the only thing they have of value is their home which they bought for pennies on the dollar, eventually when they all retire in mass quantities and are desperate to pay for med exspenses and living they’ll be Forced to sell their homes. This will lead to an increase in homes on the market and massive drops in prices. Give it within the next five years and then progressively speed up after that.

>>15189068
At this point if I ever do have a wife and children I already intend to not push them into college.

>>15189073
>net pay
>better indicator

Lol is this bait?

>>15189143
I didn't say it was a better indicator. It's worse. Everyone has different deductions. It's worthless to compare net pay.

>>15187735
Well, dont worry. They're gonna cut rates another

>>15189088
I have the same idea anon. There's no way boomers won't leave a monster surplus of homes on the market in suburbia in the next 10-20 years.

>>15188057
>>15189190
Yup, NIRP with the 2020 recession. Can't wait for the bank marketing campaigns about offering only 0% interest on savings.

anyone know what generally happens to the price of goods during a recession? do they have to reduce it like hell so people will buy or do prices not change much because the import cost from a weaker dollar will keep it up?

>>15187519
seems reasonable to me, for me combined income is 80k, house is 250k, we do have a car payment. also we have 3 kids. this is australia so we don't need health insurance but otherwise the situation is similar. any middle class person should be able to afford a 200-250k property. I thought the housing affordability crysis was referring to $1,000,000 single bedroom apartments in some of the larger cities. we are only slight worse off (in terms of cash flow) than we would be if we were renting. but at least this we are building equity so its not a complete loss like renting is

>>15188380
exit Sydney. leave those chinks holding big worthless bags of property.

>>15187430
am i the only person with fucked up parents? My parents are literal psychopaths

>>15188593
I'm in a midwestern small college town and $300k is mcmansion level. Decent modest home is $100k.

>>15189603
>am i the only person
No, I cut my parents off. My wedding is gonna be weird with none of my family there.

>>15189603
Nah. My whole family's a wreck.
I basically only occasionally talk to one extended relative at this point and one of my parents committed suicide. The other lives in another state.

>>15187413
They come out of college poor and IN DEBT. They believe that credit scores
Will save them some how. Also, wages are lower for employees starting out in 90% of the cases. We are now competing with illegal immigrants and automation.

>>15187673
>In many professions (IT, engineering) you advance by taking a better job every 2-4 years
Yes. Got a job offer last week and I'm moving interstate to rent for another few years before I repeat the cycle.

>>15187413
Fuck you, that’s why

>>15187413
Bad investment. Unlike RFR.

>>15188776
more like
>interest rate goes down
>mortgage payments go down
>retarded masses that only care about monthly payments can suddenly afford more house
>retards bid up shitshacks with borrowed money
>jews rub hands as they sell off real estate they acquired in 2010

>>15188785
Lol i live in a fly over state and you wouldnt be able to get a house the size of a studio apartment within 50 minutes of the cities for 150k.
what city, state?

>>15189531
>>15188785
I don't mean to say that you can't make it work. I have made it work for myself, but we're 4chan users. We're literally the smartest people online! Imagine someone who doesn't get irony-posting or pepes trying to understand personal finance.

>>15189734
I'll prolly just do what you're doing. I keep wanting to buy somewhere to live, but it's such a bullshit hassle and expensive.
Working in tech appears to offer me choices. I just need to make another every couple or so years.

Im a zoomed and about to buy my second property. There are homes on these properties but they're basically crack houses. Just fixing the plumbing and renting it to college Bros.

I live in a city and when the environmental problems start to accumulate all city property will be worthless. Enjoy your shitbox underwater literally and figuratively. I'm waiting until I can build my own ministate.

think of all the link you could get if you sold your boomer parents home

>>15188291
It's all looks, I know homeless guys that get laid.

>>15189848
the perfect scheme. benefits (((them))) greatly

>>15187519
Your average american can buy whatever they want, come to europe and complain about real state.

>>15189560
Even better - find empty houses owned by absentees and squat in them rather than commuting

I'm buying silver

Why does every American have like 5 loans, 2 mortages and outstanding student loans?

In Germany we rarely even take any loans bc fucking education + healthcare is free so no one has to get in 300k debt before age of 22

Wtf is wrong with you burgers? Is that the secret to your economy? Just fucking buying everything on pump?

>>15189308
Lol at that point i might as well stick it all into robinhood to buy any good dips

>>15190730
household debt to disposable income for germany is 93%, usa is 109% you're not too different.

>>15189308
Lol at that point i might as well stick it all into robinhood to buy any good dips

>>15189786
Lol. For me it's not even worth more than 25k tops in reality. Only reason id pay more is cause some hipster would probably pay hundreds of thousands for it. But if it wasnt for selling for a profit lmao nope

>>15187413
because the drns link

They're too expensive. This is a shitty starter home near me in a decent neighborhood. I'm supposed to come up with 20% of $520k just to move in? OK let me just save up $100k real quick.

>>15190730
Because some propaganda says its good to have loans. Just the same thing with credit cards which in my opinion is delusional.

>oh you only have small time credit history
>for a car loan your credit score will not get you the good deal even with 700+
>here for 12ish percent we can give you a loan

Wtf if I wanted to I could outright buy the freakin car. Heck the person who was getting this loan has a job that lets him easily afford this too. Not sure how the masses were tricked into thinking borrowing other peoples money is a good idea when you can afford it yourself. Well at least I can take advantage of regular cash back credit cards. Never been charged interest and I've made a decent nickel off of them.

>but you wont build "car credit history"

Why the heck is the public so brainwashed by this!?

>>15187413
I'm not buying some boomer's bags
I'll let them start dying off or get desperate and tired of eating cat food

>>15190818
>>but you wont build "car credit history"
Who are you quoting?

>>15190761

First compare it to Gen Z and Millenials who are above avg in debt

Second you never really have to go into debt in Germany. The state is here for us and catches us if we fail

>>15190821
great country forcing you into taking a credit else not being able to buy anything major

>>15190837
the state being 'here for us' does not affect the debt measurement per household. you pay taxes in which the state provides, americans pay out of pocket for those services but at the same time, pay less taxes and make more money. different assholes, same shit. but the point is, regardless of how services are being paid, the difference in household debt between the two countries are not really that different.

>>15190821
>but you wont build "car credit history"
Who are you quoting?

>>15190837

>Mutti ist hier für uns: Wann du von den Ausländern vergewaltigen wirst, kriegst du kostenlose Versorgung!

>mortgages are cheap
Go ahead goy, give us your money.

>Recession PTSD
>Wages are still low compared to cost of homes compared to the past
>Increasingly only way to get promoted is to jump ship to a different company so less commitments to stay in the same area
These are the reasons I'm not buying a home.

>>15190872
Car salesman who claimed that. I was suspicious of that when he said it but i dont have much research on that stuff as i have no interest in buying a car. I came along and also made sure they wouldnt rip off my brother as Im probably the best one in my family when it comes to being knowledgeable on financial stuff albeit not so much on car stuff. I at least know how to pull the right strings so i can toss their nonsense back at them, got the car below msrp and stayed stubborn the whole way through. However they pulled some nonsense that flew under my autistic radar and snuck in $6k+ worth of warranties. Literally worth more than 1/3 of the car. Looks like my brother got this resolved but at this point I want to sue them for other nonsense they pulled that even a contract can't pull them out of. If they want to play like that then I want to make them have a finacial loss on that car he bought.

Uhhh I got carried away.

>>15187430
i hope every day that my boomer parents just die off.
it never fucking happens.
ill prob be cursed to take care of them in their old old age and waste the rest of my prime years away.
i fucking hate reality.

>>15188813
remember to give mommy and daddy thanks. it's rude to be a little entitled brat.

>>15188242
bad take. in yuropoor we have job security, but high unemployment as a result and houses are unaffordable by normal people (frogistan for example, one of the wealthiest yuropoor countries: €25k median salary, €150k median house price. compare that with the stats anon posted >>15187519 and you can see how fucked the ratio is)
a flexible job market is actually what saves you burgers from european style morosity

>>15190980
ich bin selbst ausländer du trottel, wenn seit 30 jahren keine vernünftige integrationspolitik betrieben wird ist das normal, dass alle migranten dumm und dämlich bleiben

Du kriegst Bonuspunkte wenn du mir ein Land nennst, dass eine gute integrationspolitk hat

>>15189603
Nope, you’re not alone. I don’t know what it is about gen-x or whatever they’re called, but they are actually insane. Something really went wrong in that generation, and it messed things up for all generations after them. I don’t know whether to blame them or their boomer parents.

>>15189667
Are you me? I don’t remember typing this.

>>15190730
Why is every German obsessed with what Americans are doing at any given time?

>>15190730
Germans give their country away to Turks and 'refugees' so good luck with your 'free' healthcare and education in decades to come.

>>15187413
Who the hell wants to spend over a million on a tiny ass house that will most likely go down in the near future? Better to buy an apartment and relax, when the bubble pops then buy a fat house in a good neighbourhood

>>15187519
>>Median American household Income 59k
>>median American house price $226k

This would actually be extremely affordable in australia.

>>15187413
Because most jobs pay shit. Simple. It's not rocket science. Also, jobs outside a union aren't what I'd call "stable" either. Shitty investment unless you know how to flip homes. You'd still need capital for that though.

>>15187413
Haha Haha because they know what happened in 08 when rates were low and mortgages were cheap

>>15188104
>>15188506

Cheer up lads, the apartment market is about to tank like the titanic, chinks arent allowed to get money out of china anymore and we're in for a massive recession which will blow all the budgets and maybe, just maybe, stop all the fucking refugees and immigrants coming in.

If you have 50k in cash when we hit the recession and the economy tanks then you stand to pick up a decent bargain on a small house or an apartment built over 20 years ago (the ones that were actually built solidly.)

>>15191662
>ich bin selbst ausländer
stopped reading here. gehe nach hause, Öncal