/biz/ - Business & Finance

ETH is fucked, it has too much competition now, and zero defense against additional competitors. It’s its own worst enemy.

It’s own founder said it best, Ethereum should be worthless.

>>15109351

1. No proper research for decentralized PoS, it's taken alot of time to get it right.
2. Lower inflation (as well as locked up staking supply) is good news for price imo.
3. Just a matter of time.
4. CDP's are best way to find what the "ethmaxilimists" are doing, and they're borrowing to buy eth at a 20% APR. Literally insane but like 2mil eth in CDP's.
5. $1k

>>15109370
FPBP

>>15109370
Its the only platform that big enterprise are building on. The competition are all copycat scams in a saturated market... if anything has a chance at succeeding, surely its gotta be ETH?

I think eth is doomed. The highest was because of the ico crazy. I expect other platforms to slowly keep eating away at its marketshare aka tezos who have a 500 mil foundation warchest. I use to be a big eth holder, but have moved on.

>>15109403
Big enterprise is building their own.

>>15109403
Wouldn't it be the big platforms succeeding?

It's the only crypto with actual adoption and there have been quite a few articles by Google, Microst, AWS etc about developing on Ethereum in the past few months. However, the market is controlled by whales who have decided to suppress the price.

>>15109493
do you really think that big business is going to buy over priced ethereum, when they can make their own?

Buy when it looks the worst it ever has. enjoy your money.

I actually think it will be the big middleware solutions linking blockchain to real world that will be the most profitable. Chainlink is middleware. Morpheus Network is middleware. I do not think the gains will come from these platform coins themselves. Why does eth token price need to be high? It is gas for the ecosystem. On top of that Eth monetary policy is a joke. They can print at will. Middleware coins that nail the tokenomic aspects will succeed imo

>>15109351
>1. POS versus POW - why is POS considered better than POW, aside from electricity savings?
It makes the network more secure as the asset used to secure the network is specific to the network. PoW shitcoins that use the same hash as BTC can be trivially 51% attacked. To attack a PoW network you need hardware which can be used for other purposes. To attack a PoS network you need the PoS token, so you risk destroying your investment with no way to recoup it.
>2. Inflation rate is going to be lower than BTC within a couple of years - can we expect similar price appreciation for ETH as we witnessed in BTC over the coming 5-10 years?
Yes, magnified by the fact that ETH will be locked for staking.
>3. ETH as a currency- been reading more and more about ETH as programmeable money where it will be staked in a POS environment, utilised as dapps are built, earned as GAS and potentially even as a store of value if supply is capped and inflation is reduced significantly- what is the likelihood of based money skelly and his crew pulling this off?
All of this is already starting, apart from the PoS part. Look into DeFi. cDai is really interesting (compound.finance). It's all built on ETH. ETH itself won't be a currency - that is what stablecoins are for.

>>15109351
>ETH 2.0 is around the corner (supposedly)
It's phased, the release in Jan 2020 (possible delay) only brings a completely separate PoS network, the real things only happen later
>1. POS versus POW - why is POS considered better than POW
PoW is not safe, it can always be attacked externally. It would take less than $1B to attack bitcoin.
>Why didn’t BTC utilise POS instead of POW
Because it's much more complex, also PoS doesn't work for coin distribution.
>can we expect similar price appreciation for ETH as we witnessed in BTC over the coming 5-10 years?
the 'digital gold' narrative was always retarded, I expect the narrative to move to staking profits and smart contracts
>5. EOY 2020 price prediction?
no idea, I'm probably holding till at least 2030. If it's going to be the main platform for finance $10k/eth is fud
>>15109403
it's standard fud point from bagholders of one of the 'ethereum killers', especially cardano, ignore it

>>15109351

Anon, its not hard to understand.

Chainlink has been on a steady rise since the middle of the bear market. Yes, while every asset has been crashing Chainlink has been rising out pacing ALL other coins and tokens YOY some by 100x.

Also, with this rise is the rising trading volume of Chainlink. Currently at #3 sometimes #1 in volume leading BTC pairs.

It doesn't take a genius to know that XRP whales, ETH whales, BTC whales have been accumulating Chainlink the past 3 months (the high IQ biztarts have been accumulating since last year)

Think about it. Its been so high in volume the last few months the only capital it can becoming from is ETH XRP and BTC holders. With more of a focus on XRP whales capitulating. Even their spokesperson tiffany haden looks to have thrown in the towel and put out a couple of Chainlink tweets.

My offer today is to let you know that if you have just figured it out now. Its not too late. You are just in time to ride the next wave. buy Chainlink my fren.

>>15109506
That is literally the same logic as for why banks don’t just create their own version of btc...

>>15109570
Thanks, based anon.

>>15109351
>100s of products built on it
>most devs working on it in all of crypto
>2.0 around the corner
All the fud you see is from faggots holding shit clones of it aka hurrrr muh eth killer

>>15109598
Do you have the stats on inflation? I read somewhere it will be less than btc in a few years and supply will be capped. This just feels like a better version of btc to me but im a tech brainlet

>>15109351
>why is POS considered better than POW
Its not
>an we expect similar price appreciation for ETH as we witnessed in BTC over the coming 5-10 years?
Nope, the ICO hype is over its just newfags left with ETH bags
> what is the likelihood of based money skelly and his crew pulling this off?
minimal, he couldn't do what was promised for OMG, why should this be any different?
>EOY 2020 price prediction?
double digit shitcoin

>>15109747
Is this not just wash trading? Do you have any data to back it up or a link that shows this? Unironically i bought LINK at $0.4 and sold a couple of months later for 20% profit...i still don’t even know what it does i’ve been confused since 2017 on whether or not its a meme but grats to the anons that have held and made some serious sats

>>15109351
The real question you have to ask yourself is do you like 0.5-2% inflation? Because if you do you might as well just continue to pay with whatever toilet paper people tell you to.

>>15109351
This is really the only ETHUSD chart you need for now. We are undervalued compared to the top black line. It flips as support and resistance and we are now still in a great place to buy.

Price is going to the top of the crypto cloud settings and we are going to consolidate up there until we reach our key line and when we test that as support again and the line gets above the cloud we are going parabolic.

Doesn't mean that it will be the best coin to trade, but it is still a massively winning trade. and if you are a big dick then it means you can get in and out with the liquidity.

>>15109849
Promises, promises...

>>15109570
>It's all built on ETH. ETH itself won't be a currency - that is what stablecoins are for.

Honest noob question, how do tokens/stablecoins being built on ETH effect ETH's price? ETH needs to be bought to create the original smart contract?

Buy it now and wait for Bart to get here

Ethereum will be a store of value like BTC, except instead of simple POW hashrate demand/supply it's powered by:

> stablecoins and decentralized lending contracts.
> decreasing circulation due to PoS nodes

Also ICOs will come back since exchanges and coins that did IEOs will all go to jail for illegal securities trading and issuance.

>>15109351
The only coin worth longing is BTC.

>>15109849
No problem.
>Do you have the stats on inflation?
https://docs.ethhub.io/ethereum-basics/monetary-policy/
Check the graph at the bottom.
>This just feels like a better version of btc to me but im a tech brainlet
You seem like a pretty smart guy to me - ETH is a better version of BTC.
>>15109865
>Its not
That's a well-reasoned argument. You sure changed my mind.
>>15109865
>Nope, the ICO hype is over
>what is defi?
>what is the tokenized global economy?
>>15109878
>i still don’t even know what it does i’ve been confused since 2017 on whether or not its a meme
It's real but with a thick layer of memery on top. The core idea is excellent and required for large scale adoption of smart contracts.

>>15110010
Every single interaction with an ETH smart contract requires ETH to pay the transaction fee.

>>15109878

What do you want me to show you. Actual wallet transfers? When I mean high IQ biztarts i meant it.

>>15110030
>subject to inflation
>store of value

m8

>>15110067
> he thinks any rate of inflation actually negatively influences a cryptocurrency's price when prices fluctuate more than 5x of one year's inflation every day

sweet summer child

>>15110010
They effect it positively. You need ETH to create the token, mint/manage it, transfer it, etc. That all costs gas.
And then there is the value/security aspect of it. If someone launches a new stablecoin with a supply of $1bn, that's an extra $1bn of value secured by Ethereum and locked into the network.
Finally there are the network effects. Defi + stablecoins go so well together and all of that is happening on ETH.
Even Tether is abandoning Omni and moving to Ethereum. Fuck tether, but good to know that even they trust it.

>>15109351

If a price of an asset is low or discounted compared to the rest of the market, /biz/, 90% of the time, will tell you it's a bad buy.

If Ethereum has a bad future and is truly worthless, then every other shitcoin out there is going to have a bad time.

The fundamentals are there. Past price history is there. There is potential, but all that potential is worthless so long as BTC remains below its ATH. So long as BTC is below the ATH, it's still possible that this is only a massive B wave rally. Large B wave rallies occur in many assets, and can even go as high as the previous ATH.

My personal opinion, fundamentals are there, it's it's cheapest discount since 2016 relative to BTC. The question is, do you want to follow the herd or buy when there's blood in the streets? BTC breaking the ATH is what it'll take for ETH to really explode to $1000 levels again. Until then, it's probably not gonna go above $450.

>>15110067
Seens to have worked fine for precious metals that people have been mining for thousands of years, as well as for the current global reserve currency. Maybe simple inflation resistance is not the sole defining metric by which the ability of something to store value should be judged?

>>15109351
>why is POS considered better than POW
POS = piece of shit. As long as a cartel has a controlling share of the tokens they have complete control without any work. The cost of the attack is dictated by the price of the token which is dictated by how secure it is against attacks which is circular logic. POS is for federated trustful chains with nodes controlled by members of a cartel with common goals.

lisk, now that was a real ethereum killer

don't expect any good eth price movements without news, ATH was hit when POS was hinted at
might not be good news until devcon in october

>>15109493
oNLy cRyPto wITh aDoPtiOn

>>15110030
EtH iS AlSo a sToRe oF VaLuE, iT CaN dO EvErYtHinG

>>15110030
Forgetting the most important part which is burned fees that annihilates all side channel payment fud. BTC has no such protection but I'm thinking the narrative is enough.

>>15110171
Actually yes it should. I'm not going to go into the details of why MV = Py is incorrect.

ETH will surpass BTC in market cap. What they are building is far superior to any project in this space. It’s only a matter of time before ethereum absorbs the vapor projects and is de facto web3 platform

>>15110427
>web3
but but muh link

>>15109351
>Inb4 ICO mania phase is over and ETH is useless
It's coming back with SEC approved ICOs.

The ICO mania phase is over and ETH is a useless, mess. By 2020 this will be a double digit shitcoin.

>>15110469
Based
>>15110500
Not based

>>15109991
Thanks, anon. I have just spent the past 30 minutes learning about Ichimoku TA. From what i can see and what i guess the chart is showing is that price has pierced the resistance line of the cloud and if it continues on its trajectory, it may flip to support and then we go moon? I guess it all depends on btc as always...if we break that support line at the bottom its down we go?

>>15109991
Also, why is there no pink, brown and orange cloud before 2019? And the cloud was much smaller before 2019

>>15109351
Hey anon here's a tip from someone who actually knows what they're talking about:
Everyone wants a magical insight or something unknown, but the most likely scenario is nearly always what is exactly in front of you and obvious

ETH is the leader in distributed executable code and has the most developers working on it. There is too much value for someone to not eventually get it right. Whether that is ETH or a permissioned chain that becomes ubiquitous or a next gen "eth killer" is unknown. The most likely sector leader in the long term, however, is the current market leader, ETH.

LINK will DESTROY BTC and Eth will Flip BTC sending it to #3

LINK WILL Destroy BTC, once BTC loses its #1 spot it will be irrelevant and will be flipped by ETH

eth is a piece of shit. it can't handel cryptokitties. i know because i played it from the start. as soon as people started flooding into the game the gas fees went from a couple of cents to over $30.. that was only 1 app.. how is it supposed to run the world's app. fuck off. get real. i don't believe it will ever scale. if it does it wont be for another 20 years. it has a fucking ridiculous valuation currently. fuck off.

the price will keep going down due to more competitors coming out every fucking week.

im going to invest in the next eth that can scail... radix? spacemesh? coda, unit-e, something not out yet

>>15110046
Why would a large eth price be beneficial then?

>>15110850
Imagine not knowing "competitors" are literal forks for Ethereum source code

>>15110855
Nodes decide the price of a transaction, so if ETH rises in price because of increased demand, nodes can simply decrease the ETH transaction fee cost.

>>15110416
Reality disagrees with you, but let me put out a more specific example of why you're retarded for thinking scarcity is the only source of value:
>There were only 1.2 billion buffalo nickels minted in the US between 1913 through 1938; there will never be an increase in the supply of 1913-1938 buffalo nickels. This makes them deflationary (as the existing supply is lost, damaged, or degrades). The average buffalo nickel sells for under one dollar.
>There are currently about 6,108,640,000 troy ounces of gold already mined and marketable. Another 88,414,550 are estimated to be mined on an annual basis (1.4% inflation). One troy ounce of gold is worth $1,441.75.

If your theory of value was correct, buffalo nickels would be a more popular store of value over gold.

>>15109395

Go back to /pol/, incel.

>>15109351
Unironically no, you will never get any sensible or useful discussion here. >>15109370
It has literally zero competition. Every FUCKING EVERY other public smart contract chain is literal shit, and the well made private consortia have no real reason to exist.

ok you guys are scaring me now should I get out of eth or what? my portfolio is eth heavy... what the fuck why are you scaring me bros...

>>15110655
this. ask yourself: what value-add does a public blockchain offer? and can this value-add be replicated via a private network/infrastructure?

actually think about those two questions.

>>15110917
>>15110931
Accurate.

Public blockchains (take your pick) are early-stage solutions looking for long-term problems. That said, what problems might public blockchains be able to solve? And are they able to solve them yet?

I think you know where this is going... you can bitch all day about PoW vs. PoS vs. whatever, but ultimately, real-world adoption (i.e. unlocking the potential value of these networks at scale) will be contingent on these networks being flexible and friendly enough to work as solutions to real-world problems.

So, in terms of investment: I would look toward middleware (and yes... LINK would fit here). In light of today's rapid innovation in the space, plus all of the politicking that's been going on, nobody really fucking knows which underlying public chain(s) will win out. if you believe in the fundamental value of public blockchains, though, it's pretty obvious where to put your money.

>>15109370
>It’s own founder said it best, Ethereum should be worthless.

Think about the implications of this on POS' integrity (assuming POS can be pulled off).

For the network to be impervious to attacks, the cost of mounting one should be so high that it would be retarded to risk. Therefore, the ETH supply would have to be hyper-inflated relative to USD (or whatever asset you're evaluating it against). Does the monetary policy proposed allow for this hyper-inflation? I haven't looked at the numbers, but I don't think so.

The last question to ask is what's the range of costs of mounting an attack on the network such that it's not worthwhile to risk? This range, in conjunction with the monetary policy assumed to be followed, will allow you to determine whether or not a single unit of ETH can truly be "worthless".

Friendly reminder to you brain let's that ETH 1.0 will be a shard in ETH 2.0

>>15110899
>75% copper

Copper is currently trading at $2.57 a pound. The added buffalo doesn't mean anything.

>>15110156
BTC pumping will cause ETH to lose sats. For ETH to hit $1k, BTC will probably need to go 10x from here.

So, why is ETH performing so poorly compared to Bitcoin? Halving is coming up in May next year and we know with 100% certainty that this will happen.
We also know with a very high probability that the ETH switch from PoW to PoS will get delayed multiple times and won't happen before the BTC halving.

I think the right time to buy ETH is after the BTC havling, when the ratio will be about ~0.01.

>>15109351
1. ETH may not even upgrade to PoS, because it's having too many backwards compatibility issues.
2. ether has a way of squaring supply and demand, which is why it flies up and down so violently. There has to be a catalyst to lock up tokens to limit the supply and that would increase demand. It's a very creative ecosystem, so you never know where, when or how the catalyst will happen.
3. I want it to work, but they're so far behind schedule I'm not expecting it. But if they're serious about starting the 2.0 roll out in autumn, the chart attached is what I'd expect.
4. Novogratz is liquidating. Which is why ethereum has been allergic to money this whole rally. Pretty sure the devs are still selling their ICO tokens to keep the lights on.
5. Could be $200 or $2,000. Depends on whether they deliver the beacon chain or not and how much efficiency it provides for the blockchain.

>>15110867
you dont get it shit for brains. eth is a dapp platform that can't handel a single popular dap.. so it's worthless.. it's garbage shit.. not fit for purpose... it will never scale moron

>>15109351
>Inb4 ICO mania phase is over and ETH is useless
>Inb4 ETH is a mess
>Inb4 double digit shitcoin.
well looks like you don't want to face reality anon

>>15109598
another ETH bagholder obsessed with cardano.

>>15112412
/thread

>>15110037
with eth you get compensated for the risk with significantly more reward

the real question is has ETH dev team ever really come through on their timelines? Have they keep their promises in prior development cycles. Seems like the only killer Dapp is Maker or something. What has ETH even really accomplished except for fucking over GPU miners and ETH price has been dogshit

>>15110924
how did you read this thread and come out scared about eth

>>15113544
im not saying sell your position, im just saying in general, ETH could ATH next time BTC does even if it is shit becuase of how connected it is to BTC and also ETH is the only second transfer of all exchanges that allows shitcoin trading accross exchanges so maybe that is one big source of value

>>15110156
of course, by virtue of it being at a discount so many people have sold off, by virtue of people selling off, everyone is going to call it dead

it is deterministic, provides no useful information, and ignores what is truly important - predicting the future

>>15110850
>how is it supposed to run the world's app
sharding in eth 2.0 and improvements thereafter

>>15111814
look at the ETHBTC chart, right now we're on the cheap side of the mean reversion with the fundamentals of ETH improving faster than the fundamentals of BTC thanks to a massive developer community

>I think the right time to buy ETH is after the BTC havling, when the ratio will be about ~0.01.
>buy the tops

overall though vitalik seems lazy and hell what was he before bitcoin magazine a nobody maybe ETH < BTC in the end, at least satoshi is anon, i honeslty wish vitalik wasnt the face of ETH thinking about it

>>15110917
does willful ignorance make you feel better anon? so fearful -- fucking kek

Ethereum will be number one soon enough, after the kikes finally destroy core with their shenanigans
Also, BTC core cucks please stop shitting up 0xBitcoin threads it's the superior product in every aspect

>>15113649
as a mega 0xbtc chad i'm ok with btc being the currency you use to transfer $50M for your lakeside estate in russia or whatever, and 0xbtc being the currency you use to conduct more ordinary transactions that you need to complete in like 30s

>>15109351
Hold only ether. Nothing else. I have a huge bag. Only ETH. Ethereum is the platform of the future. Long hold.

>>15114503
i like ethereum, but i don't think it's a good store of value because there's no cap. i would still keep a stack, but why put all your eggs in one basket? seems unsafe.

>>15114530
I believe an effective cap will be implemented at 120M ETH. If not, I will reconsider.

>>15114577
ah, really, that'd be interesting. are you talking about https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/issues/960 ?
seems like it has support but is in limbo at the moment.

>>15109427
Is Tezos the next ETH?

>>15114610
Yeah, that's it. I almost switched over to bitcoin fully because of how the direction of Ethereum left me feeling unsure. Though I don't like bitcoin and would prefer to stay put.