/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>15103846
thats the point the honey badger is unstoppable

>>15103846
no, might as well give up the salt show and seriously reevaluate your narratives

>>15103846
doesn't look like it and it makes me fucking furious because it's clearly a fucking ponzi.

ugh

>>15103846
Normies invest in what they know, even they know nothing about it.
Bitcoin awful to make payments with? Takes forever? Way too hard to mine at this point?
But it's the bitcorn.
Sure if every shitcoin Dev started dumping what they were doing and worked on BTC it would be a good coin but that's not going to fucking happen and no one wants to work on Bitcoin when if they can make their alt work, or at least look like it works, they can be rich.
Not to mention that the altcoin space is full of obvious scamcoins like BSV and Vechain which decreases trust and somewhat legitimate projects like LINK are already dead in the water, never to resurface again.
At first I just wanted to be rich but over time I really started believing in blockchain as a technology but I feel like the whole thing is just being destroyed by obvious scam shit.

>>15104563
>ugh why is everyone making money!! I could have put money in but I would rather short!
>ugh I missed the short from 20k -> 3k, why won't it go down anymore ugh!

>>15103846
you mean Bitcoin? Its the only coin that matters. The only reason to invest in shitcoins is to accumulate more Bitcoin.

>>15103846
You had 10 years.

>>15104629
Things changed recently
USD pairs started getting more volume than BTC pairs

>>15104641
Well, I'm not buying USD if thats what you think.

>>15104602
hey hey, dont call the real bitcoin a scam coin. I´m as pissed as you are that shit btc is pumping, but BSV is the real deal.

>>15104737
fuck off scammer

>>15104563
>About to have lower inflation than fiat
>It's price grows because it's a ponzi

Get woke or go broke

>>15104737
BSV is a pajeet scam

>>15104743
>>15105544
this!

>>15104602
Nobody knows what bitcoin is

>>15105531
Btc has appreciated against fiat since the start regardless of inflation.

>>15105650
Yes but next year we accelerate forever due to being lower than fiat inflation rate.
Gold is too but it's been cucked by creating paper gold supply thus reducing the price.

Bitcoin will keep going up and up and up non stop.
The volatility will start to disappear too.

>>15104602
>Sure if every shitcoin Dev started dumping what they were doing and worked on BTC
This sums up what's actually happening but you guys look at bitcoin like stocks or money. You can't see the interconnectedness and atomic swaps are the future. Charlie lee is BTC greatest dev. You think NANO should be BTC because it's cheap and fast (at a small scale) but BTC is scarce and secure with a 10 year history of support and uptime. That means something to wealthy and companies. They think bitcoin is too risky and it's the least risky crypto. I'm so happy that BTC is making alt maximalists poor, I remember 2017 when you all said LINK was going to $100 and ETH to flip BTC but you guys can't do math so supply never mattered to you. That's why you lose money
>>15104641
That's because every shitcoin has been hiring market makers for volume and no one wants to get caught holding shitcoins vs BTC in this bull market. You guys have reverse reasoning to reality, it's spectacular how you perceive these things as positives for alts.

>>15105704
Pure speculation at best. More likely pure bullshit

>>15105723
If fiat loses value faster than bitcoin does then bitcoin price rises relative to fiat.

It's not speculation it's a fact.

>>15105650
that's because it's supply is very finite and demand grew exponentially. and guess what when a country in the developed world will get financial troubles that threaten with hyperinflation people will finally understand bitcoin. because sure it can go down 80% on you from a bubble peak but it always gets back up and just about any 3y period gave you very good to insane good returns on bitcoin. if a fiat currency goes to -80% it's not coming back ever the way is only down.

loaded boomers, normies and noobs are only buying BTC because they have no clue about any other project

>>15105743
yeah they should just pick a winner from this with careful fundamental analysis and looking deeply into projects background dev team community and potential... right.

>>15105737
>>15105730
Arguably it only makes a bubble then dumps 80%.
But halving is easily priced in, so maybe it has nothing to do with the halving at all

>>15105783
think of it this way...
btc is valued $10k fact (you could say it was just a bubble at $20k but there is no denying it now)
global adoption rate is at best between 0.1% and 0.2% at worst below 0.1% this is fact. (we know this from total unique addresses)
85% of bitcoins total supply is mined fact.
bitcoin is trustless permissionless and secure fact.
bitcoin is unconfiscateable escape vehicle of wealth fact.
hyperbitcoinization is coming (speculation).

>>15105812
also look at the blue line it's basically the "the fair valuation" of bitcoin by power law

>>15105783
The halving can't be priced in because proof of work.
Miners are forced to sell to pay electricity , the halving can't be priced in, the LTC halving is always considered priced in , but that's because capital escapes ltc to btc halving.

>>15105812
This guy understand , only 15% left to mine of which most will be mined the next 10 years.

in just 5 years bitcoin supply will be so little that whales won't be able to move the price anymore as the risk will be too big for the few whales that did not sold.

After that it will become a way to save wealth like banking.
Having less inflation than fiat will give it stability , having little supply means no one will dump your price.

Bitcoin won't become global cash but will become a p2p bank , the transaction fees will be high but low relative to banks with negative interest to pump the western economies.

Bitcoin cash having the same conditions of inflation will take most of the micropayment markets and btc due to having higher hashpower due to fees the global bank.

Hyperbitcoinization is coming fast.

>>15105845
>the halving cant be priced in
Its happening sometime around the middle of next year, thats pretty much a fact unless btc dies
>>15105812
Maybe but all of that has fuck all to do with its inflation rate
I dont even think its really unconfiscatible, see silk road

>>15105743
Math geeks like me buy BTC because we understand no other crypto matches BTC supply vs demand. TX fees and times will matter more when everyone has a crypto wallet. Right now most people should only hold BTC until they understand tokenomics
>>15105752
It's about their ego. They think they're smarter than the market and they're going to pick the next bitcoin. They can learn about TX fees or times but they will never learn about security or stock to flow. It's easy to pick NANO because it's the fastest or NEO it's the cheapest. The thing is there's a million next btc and they all eat each others market share because there's only so many idiots
>>15105783
>But halving is easily priced in
I love reading this. The market priced it in by not dumping below 3k. The supply to the biggest BTC sellers will be cut in half. They're not going to be able to give us the supply the market demands, at the same price. The market can't price in a future supply shock that accurately.
>>15105812
this guy gets it.

>>15105902
>BTC because we understand no other crypto matches BTC supply vs demand.
Also unmatched security. No other crypto comes close to the bitcoin hashrate.

>>15105902
>the market priced it in by not dumping below 3k
Theres nothing special about 3k just like 6k. People were saying it woudnt break 6k either

>>15105886
>unconfiscatible
nothing is 100% in this world, it just much easier to hide than anyother asset because you don't have to store it
>inflation
That's the name of the game, understand that and you'll know more about BTC price. The market gradually prices the halving in, it never just wakes up and says we all know BTC will 10x when it halves so everyone raise your sell orders. They way you guys think is like CNBC.

>>15105938
Btc price does whatever. It moons, it dumps. And everybody knows the halving there are analyses which literally chart the halving

>>15105922
What? I don't care. You guys don't understand me at all. The way you think markets work is not how they do in reality. The bottom was 5k but bcash wars took it to 3.4. 5k was holding until ver and wright dumped more BTC on the market but this is just my interpretation. I wasn't even being specific about the number just the bottom. No one believes that 3.4k is some magic number that we can't see BTC at again.

>>15105956
Whole article explaining/proving why bitcoin's value is most directly driven by its scarcity:

https://medium.com/@100trillionUSD/modeling-bitcoins-value-with-scarcity-91fa0fc03e25

>>15105922
There is you need to research the price it takes to mine a NEW bitcoin.
The price of new bitcoins being the origin of the supply on the market establishes the base price.

And after the halving that base price increases considerably.

>>15105918
This , BCH will also be making massive gains as btc asics are redirected to bch since they also use sha256 and will halve together.
But btc will remain king due to it's hashrate.

>>15105902
BTC game theory is perfect and forces the price to move upwards.

>>15105967
More speculation and bullshit
>>15105971
Yea sure scarcity drives price, but it has nothing to do with a comparison to gold, dollar, stock market or anything else

>>15105973
>the mining cost establishes base price
Oh then why did miners shut down in the bear market

>>15105956
There's new people discovering BTC every day.Doesn't matter though.
You're not getting it because you guys have this joe kernan view of markets. The market knows many things inflation rates but no one would be as stupid as you and say the yen is priced in. You guys think fed rate cuts = BTC halvings. Fed rates effects on stocks are not supply cuts effects on BTC
>>15105973
>The price of new bitcoins being the origin of the supply on the market establishes the base price.
Yep couldn't have said it better.
>BTC game theory is perfect and forces the price to move upwards.
BTC is the biggest milkshake drinker

>>15106009
Bitcoin hashrate literally only collapsed during the december bottom.

https://www.blockchain.com/es/charts/hash-rate?timespan=2years

After that the price started to grow again and so did the hashrate because the price reached the bottom.

Why did the hashrate collapsed then?Because not every miners have the same electric cost.
The ones with the highest electric cost stoped operating for a time and the price started to grow again.

>>15106016
Btc halvings are literally part of of algorithm and known forever, nobody compares it to fed rate adjustments.

>>15106028
That doesnt mean anything for btcs value. It could be 3k or 1k

>>15106000
You're just stupid. I told you i was speculating. You think anyone honestly knows 100%? You're a sucker. That's why you don't understand stock to flow.
>>15106009
Their mining costs were greater than the survivors or they started at the wrong time, got hacked, made bad hires. I'm sure it happend for many reasons. you're view of economics is like a /pol poster. You can't boil it all into a catch phrase because economics more complicated and diverse. When crypto has less of this and more stock to flow analysis, this will overtake traditional investments in market cap.

>>15106036
No it could not because of the game theory , if btc goes bellow mining base price then miners have to sell at a loss , if miners have to sell at a loss then they can't pay electricty and thus shut down.

At first the miners with the highest cost shut down then you reach the ones with the lower cost.
And all of the sudden no miner is selling because they would literally go broke and as a result the supply collapses and the price increases.

I'ts game theory.

>>15106036
>>15106029
Also i just noticed the lowest hashrate we had in the last two years that i posted here.

>>15106028

Literally coincides with the based Asuka prohpecy date of the bottom.

>>15103846
imagine thinking BTC is a shitcoin.

>>15106028
Bullish for Unification. Scaling has been solved.

>>15105886
>I dont even think its really unconfiscatible
up to you if you give it to the feds or not for reduced sentence. but that's not what unconfiscateable means really. when you have to run whatever happens you have to leave your country your life they can block your wires and confiscate all your valuables at the state borders. if you are running from venezuela with usd in your pockets you gonna leave them with the border partrol. what they can't take is your btc. unless your retarded ass uses a hardware wallet.

but the point is if you do this shit right nobody can take your btc nobody would even know or be able to prove you have it. and i'm not talking about the nsa-cia-dea-delta joint task force formed to take down magneto. just your average government thugs like tsa.

>>15106029
This market prices it in meme is the worst. If that's the case then the market would have priced it in before. Why did btc go from 400 to 20k? Where was the market pricing it in? Do you see how dumb you are?
>>15106000
>it has nothing to do with a comparison to gold, dollar, stock market or anything else
This comment right here show everyone how stupid the people are on this board. Shut off your computer anon. Go to sleep

>>15106064
>nobody can prove its your btc
Im not even surr this is true, btc wallets can be tracked easily

>>15106069
The market didnt price it in before because btc was young, but it does now because everyone knows about the fucking halving

>>151060764
not if done right, damn you're full retard aren't you

>>15106082
everyone knew about the halving from the fucking start, it's in the BTC whitepaper that every fucking crypto investor read first. Can i Keep calling you stupid? I'm tired of thinking of names for you

>>15106076
tracking and proving ownership is two different shit. i can pretend i sold (or bought shit with) my btc otc with a few transactions while still retaining ownership of the new private keys. no

court has the legal capacity to prove i still have ownership. best they can do is an al capone on some tax technicality if they pass me down to the local irs. get 5 years max probably home confinement (because prisons are full) get out after 3 for good behavior as a billionaire. but this is an extreme scenario i don't hink they would care to sentence me at all.

>>15106092
But nobody knew what it woukd do to price action

>>15105717
Except BTC is still awful to make payments with.
Fix that and I'll just say fuck it and put everything into BTC.

>>15106028
Yup. Willy Woo created a helpful new metric that shows that the less economically viable miners were capitulating right down to the price bottom, and the price evened out after that extra mining sell pressure ceased. Explains it well in this thread: https://twitter.com/woonomic/status/1157170473706196993

>>15105717
>buying link last year
>losing money on a x30
Pick one. This is your brain on btc maximalism

>>15106082
You could be correct on this one but this is the third halving.
The second was not priced will the third be priced in?

Could be but then again that means the miners would risk collectively taking debt for years because electricity is not free.

And assuming the halving is priced in all of the sudden they will still suffer from a collapse in supply.

Should they all sell collectively at the priced in price all they would do is delay the halving bottleneck in price.
Kind of like central banks take cash of the street for a promise of interest and inject it again in the future.
They take inflation today from the street for inflation tomorrow.

This would be miners dumping the coins mined in 2018 and 2019 and the halving supply collapse would still happen in 2022.

So your theory of priced in is irrelevant because the collapse in base supply will happen.

Also every halving did at least 115x from the bottom , that would give us a price of 360k.
Even assuming a reduction growth in this halving we still end near 200k.

>>15106098
then there is the good old strawman trick, i buy a kyc-ed account from some pajeet for $100 that i instruct to use my vpn to reg. and after i changed the password and added 2fa to both the acc and the email acc to it i tumble my btc through some privacy coin between exchanges and send out the btc to my secretly owned keys.

this is what i would do if i would expect my legal system come after me in the next 5 years. statue of limitations is 5 years so that's your legal risk period.

>>15106102
It's game theory.

1_All the miners have a reduction of 100% of their income in bitcoin.
2_Their electric costs remain the same.
3_They now earn 100% less
4_They refuse to sell at this price because they know everyone else doing mining is under the same situation.
5_Price starts to go up due to lack of supply in the market.
6_Eventually price does 100% increase and miners could be in the green again.
7_Speculation starts at what will the top price be.
8_Miners still refuse to sell because it could go up even higher.
9_Miners having different electric costs all have different breakeven price.
10_Price keeps going up as news spawn all over the world.
11_A bubble starts to form
12_Some miners start to sell to pay electricity
13_Bubble becomes insanely big
14_All miners start to sell.
15_Fees become massive
16_Bubble explodes
17_Price collapses 83%.
18_The new bottom where everyone tells bitcoin is dead is literally so big that years before it would have been considered insanely high and that it would never happen.
19_Bitcoin starts to grow again in the next halving.

GAME THEORY
Next bottom will be 55k after going to more than 300k.

>>15106160
>3_They now earn 100% less
that would mean they earn nothing brainlet

>>15106114
Will read , thanks ,i been checking localbitcoins data to see the selling pressure

>>15106160
>They now earn 100% less
100% less is zero

>>15106183
>>15106193
You are right kek i am asleep sorry i meant 50% less

>>15106160
>>15106122
The assumption is that miner supply drives the price, and not the 15million btc already in the hands of whalea and market makers.
Miner supply shrinks every halving, but what makes you think they are the only ones selling?

>>15106193
also the miners that were profitable at $4k will be profitable after the halving at $8k. also only the block reward halves the tx fees don't. so it's not even a 50% reduction more like a 45%

>>15106203
You're kind of correct regardless, when they suddenly make 1/2 as much, it's safe to assume they're making 0 actual profit after electricity & maintenance, not to even talk about paying back on the ASIC hardware.

>>15105717
It's like some coin only get listed with stablecoin pairs. You never see this in 2017 when almost every alts were traded only with btc

>>15106204
you can assume miners and whales are a greatly intersecting group. the new class of whales that are not involved in mining directly will be the investment funds and ln pools.

>>15106226
you shouldn't ever assume that
because futures markets were created for exactly this purpose. a miner can lock in his profitability for a year easily with fraction of his expected revenue.

>>15106160
Since the majority of the coin has already been mined I don't think miners cam affect the market that much.

Watch this video on Bitcoin.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UMK_A0mF8PQ

>>15106228
this is the exchanges fuckery they try to push their own shitcoins on people.

>>15106233
That gives all the more incentive to move the price to shake out the competition

>>15106103
>ten years later
>he STILL thinks BTC is for payments
Son I love ya but you one hella dumbass

>>15106248
tried to watch it but it's boring shit two caucasian goatfuckers talk about what they think is happening in the world.

>>15106275
but they can't really unless an operation is way overextended at a critical period. which means only the brainlets will be pushed out and those betrayed by their own government.

>>15106291
So, anybody

as long as the government lets these criminal stable coin issuers operate, no. its all a show, they can push it to 1 million "dollars" in the next hour if they wanted. once these disgusting animals get cracked down by the government, and it will happen, btc will be trading at triple digits.

>>15106102
You're new and trying to act like you know what you're talking about. Everyone knew what would happen BTC has always been about game theory. Articles flooded the internet for years before the last halving so come up with some other meme phrase.
>>15106103
Everyone gets caught up on this but it's not true. Every chain gets clogged when it hits crazy levels and no chains have had to scale to BTC level. There's more to it than TX fees or total TX. BTC is years away from the main show but I bet all these cryptos would fail at mass adoption volume. They can all be 1000s of TX a second until they do that in a real world setting. ETH gets clogged by airdrops still. You guys act like development stops here or that BTC should throw out the new code a clone XRP. BTC won't be the fastest but eventually all these cryptos will be splitting hairs in TX fees and times. Those things get incorporated from LTC or others into BTC and you'll be stuck holding the fastest internet currency no one sends
>>15106118
Fuck you, I buy every crypto, it's how I learn about them. I just flip them into more BTC eventually. See idiots like you go all in LINK. I go mostly BTC and take a $50 flyer on a crypto once in a while. You have the lweast intelligence of any poster ever on biz.

>>15106122
>You could be correct on this one but this is the third halving
Dont encourage him. His logic doesn't make sense. The market knows a supply shock sends the price up so they'll just send the price up before the supply shock. Then the supply is cut and new buyers buy in but now the market expects crazy gains so there's no low sell orders. Price goes up. The halving can't be priced in until everyone who wil buy BTC has. Are people going to stop buying because they know BTC always goes up during this time in it's cycle? It's the fucking opposite. Humans can't fight greed. The market will never turn down more money. The market isn't Buffet and bezos, it's made of millions people all over the world

>>15106103
>Except BTC is still awful to make payments with.
the main reason for that is nobody is interested in adopting it everyone just trying to print their own fake money and push that. if only 10th of the effort that went into shitcoins went into adopting btc as payment we could be living in a different world.

>>15106278
I mean it will be in the long term but in the short or medium term altcoiners are deluded for thinking that matters or is some kind of existential crisis for bitcoin.

>>15106296
no you should expect big mining operations behave strategically especially about something as crucial and predictable as the halving. they know there is a short period of possible insolvency so they will hedge against it.

>>15106204
About 14m bitcoin are in circulation and 3m remain to be mined for the next 100 years.

What you guys don't understand is that the miners supply is the base price and the base monetary supply.

Sice miners are forced to sell unlike everyone else that can just hold ,and after next year it will be the logical decision since bitcoin will have lower inflation than fiat.

>>15106226
Yes the miners are the cause of the bubble and the price rise.

This is why ethereum price will go to 0 after proof of stake aka proof of shit , without proof of work game theory there is nothing preventing whales from forming a group moving the market.

In btc that can happen but only if the whales trust each other because the electric costs are going to be there anyway forcing them to sell even if they agreed to not.

>>15106246
Without miners selling the supply would collapse , miners represent most of the coins being sold as most people would have no reason to sell a coin with less inflation than fiat.

Hell btc inflation is already low at 3.75% compared to many shit currencies.
Next year it will be 1.80% bellow usd and euro why would you sell for fiat that loses value faster?

This may be the last bubble after the 2024 halving it will be a slow but constant price grow to 1M as the miner supply will be so low relative to the existing market and even better kyc regulations will make it hard to cash out wich will ironically cause the price to grow more as there won't be much reasons to cash out when btc has lower inflation than fiat btc will become an international bank.

And if old btc asics move to bch during the next halving bch will become a global payment system together with btc even if their communities hate each other , they both have a good destiny if things go as they have been going.

>>15105704
no, we accelerate because there is literally no use for bitcoin. since there is no use for bitcoin, its main purpose becomes hodling and then dumping on the next sucker once you are satisfied with your gains. spoiler: this is not sustainable

>>15106328
>And if old btc asics move to bch during the next halving
interesting way of seeing things but i don't think this is how hash power economy works. because if you could only mine bch with old asics sure then it could work like this, but you can mine them both with old and new hardware. assuming free electricity (many miners own their electric source) you could run old miners until you have no room for them physically and still be profitable mining btc.

>>15106324
This is true. BTC right now is land rush period where the winners in six years will be those claiming sats today. Payments come later

>>15106358
you still have a lot to learn and understand... babies first steps. i was through this denial phase in 2013.

>>15106325
>you cant go bankrupt as a miner because you can short
Lmao ok if you say so

>>15106324
i personally think we will never get to widespread medium of exchange. the rest checks out. btc will grow to an adoption rate of about 10% globally and that's it. it will completely overtake and obliterate gold as a financial asset.

>>15106382
just do the math take a piece of paper and do it!
it's not hard don't assume they are incompetent it's their fucking job and most of them been doing it for years. they survived $3.4k

>>15106358
There is use for bitcoin i lived under capital controls and bitcoin was literally the only way of doing international purchases.

If that happened when bitcoin inflation was 10% imagine what will happen when bitcoin inflation is bellow fiat next year.

Forget about bitpay , they could ban all payment processors and due to their scarcity bitcoin would be a valuable unit of account and medium of exchange.

Bitcoin has survived when it was most vulnerable against all odds.

>>15106368
>but you can mine them both with old and new hardware.

At a loss you can but not gaining money.

Due to game theory old asics can't even justify their cost of electricity so they were usually thrown.

https://www.asicminervalue.com/

Next halving of btc will happen together with bch so old asics will move to mine bch.

Eventually probably mid 2021 we will reach the ultimate asics due to moore law limits and then asics will be measured by kw used per hour after that mining will become again proffitable for the common individual.

You may even literally use asics to heat your house because the cost of upgrading asics will never exist again as it will be phyisically impossible due to the moore law limits to create a better one.

This will cause mining to become incredibly descentralized again as having residential electric costs will destroy centralized mining and those asics may last for 20 years or until quantum computers if they can break crypto.

>>15106368
>assuming free electricity (many miners own their electric source) you could run old miners until you have no room for them physically and still be profitable mining btc

The free electricity is a big IF but yes the only centralized miners that will survive post 2021 will be the ones that invested in things like electric dams or have absurdly low electric costs due to being near one.

But they will be a minority as mining becomes descentralized again , it's funny how satoshi game theory has been working so well all because the electric costs , from price rises to descentralization it all comes from the fact that each bitcoin has an electric cost behind it.

It's genious to be honest.

>>15106389
>At a loss you can but not gaining money.
that's not true tho if you own your own hydroelectric plant or solar farm and your mining hardware your only limitation for old hardware is storage space (and of course your power capacity). buying new hardware is an investment that needs to be carefully considered and timed not to mention it's availability is scarce there could be waiting lists and shit.

>>15105902
>we understand no other crypto matches BTC supply vs demand
What a math geek, to understand supply vs. demand. What happens when demand drops off a cliff?

>>15106392
there was a time when i thought electric cost is straight up converted to bitcoin like back in 2011. i know better know. it's a factor sure. but not as straight cut.

it's more like bitcoin hashpower will always rise until it makes mining unprofitable at a given price.

>>15106413
>What happens when demand drops off a cliff?
the shitcoin dies but btc is special there is no forseeable cap to demand before 10% global adoption. it has it's place in the world finances even if you don't change a bit in the code.

>>15106427
>it makes mining unprofitable at a given price.

Yes , it forces old asics out the market because few have their own electric supply.

It's all part of the game theory and as i pointed here.

>>15106160

One of the main reasons of the price growth , the funniest shit is that the centralization caused by asics will be reverted naturally due to the moore law limits being reached.

>>15106246
They sell new BTC, most people are holding, some are trading (buying and selling) but miners always sell. constantly, they are the major, not only selling pressure on BTC. Cutting miner supply is big for people who hold old BTC and don't add new ones. It moves price and everyone is expecting it now. BTC stock to flow is getting closer to gold.
>>15106278>>15106308

It can be used for that but why would you spend billions on pizza? Use higher inflation cryptos like XMR and ETH for payments
>>15106358
You know other cryptos piggyback on BTC in every way, including hash. It's what's keeping crypto alive, the backbone.

>>15106453
>Yes , it forces old asics out the market because few have their own electric supply.
no all mining altogether, the exact profitability profile of individual miners is too different to make statements like that.

>>15106454
>It can be used for that but why would you spend billions on pizza?
i would use btc as payment to avoid paying vat and transfer fees and shit. also to settle balances between family members and friends without a trusted third parties involvement that reports to the gubment.

how did the OP's shitpost turn into such a substantive discussion, surprised at you biz

>>15106384
most likely outcome but I could see it being one of 2 or 3 things backing a world reserve currency.
>>15106413
demand is growing and will continue for a few years at least. Do you think you're smart when you look at BTC chart and think it's going down? Because everyone else thinks you're dumb when BTC keeps going up. I don't make the rules

>>15106465
vat is 27% in my country with various fees and costs that go into payments if i say use a cc make it more like an even 30% overhead cost on any goods or services.

so for me being able to pay a contractor in btc would make the service 30% cheaper potentially (same is pretty much true for cash).

>>15106477
>but I could see it being one of 2 or 3 things backing a world reserve currency.
a year ago i would have laughed it off as crazy i was very cynical about this. but today we get whispers about central banks considering holding btc as part of their reserve. they are far from making up their minds i think first they will run an a unsuccessful experiment with their own trustful permisisoned security backed crypto assets before yielding to bitcoin.

>>15105730
You realize every currency is meant to go to zero

>>15106502
another reason why bitcoin isn't currency

>>15106502
wtf? Only in the Keynesian and Chicago school's eyes.

>>15106480
oh and also transfer fees are percent based and bitcoin tx fees are byte size based, which means if i want to transfer serious amount i would always prefer btc.

then there is the programmable aspect and the way you can do trustless multisig schemes and inheritance with bitcoin. we had to pay 0.5% to the fucking notary after my fathers estate for 1 hour of hard work of signing some papers and using a stamp. man...

>>15106456
Yes but it mostly goes together Venezuelan miners were the only ones with the cheaper cost and their entire electric grid collapsed and the lot's of miners were seized by the government there.

>>15106502
Keynes does not control this one so no.

>>15106477
There's more demand for a borderless stablecoin that can help skirt currency restrictions than a volatile asset like BTC. BTC is being used as the SOV for underbanked entities involved in this market. Tether is a big piece of it.

https://bitcoinist.com/tether-finds-real-world-use-case-in-china-russian-grey-market/

>>15106480
>>15106556
Ding ding ding , we have a winner here , and the second point is massive.

The % based vs byte based is massive for big purchases.

Bitcoin costs become lower the bigger the transfer ,at the end btc will become the bank and bch the cash.

And the 30% is you mention of cheaper by reducing fees it's not the only advantage.
There is also currency exchange advantages since freelancers moving their income create liquidity everywhere in btc to any other fiat.

So if you want to go from x fiat to a payment in usd it's always a better conversion rate with btc than with credit cards.

>>15103846
I notice BTC maximalists usually sound like they are mildly autistic and are living in a fantasy world. This thread is a good example. But they don't ever sound nearly as dumb as BTC naysayers, talking heads, and overrated economists who can't comprehend it and would rather call it a scam.

>>15106584
yeah and an other point about bank accounts which everyone thinks they own... when my father died, my mother was locked out of their joint account. she had to clear out the fridge and the pantry to eat while she was dealing with that devastating grief. her own pension went to the locked account. no help there. because you think you own that money but it's actually the institutions and the state that license them that won all your money.

and this was not even malicious just callous bureaucracy. guess what if it was in bitcoins they couldn't have done shit to it.

>>15106612
Lmao if it waa btc she wouldnt get any, because she didnt knoe the private key

>>15106638
why wouldn't she?
it would be in a multisig fallback address where 2 of 2 can spend it or 3 of 4 or timelocked 2 of 4.
she could have spent it within an hour.

>>15106573
No thanks I prefer bitcoin as it is, the present market demand for bitcoin agrees with me. Just asserting there is more demand for something else means nothing or is irrelevant.

>>15106592
Nice argument. Doesn't matter too much though if some bitcoiners are on the spectrum and idealistic if they are also correct and rich for it. You sound like just another saltcoiner expressing the resentment that is so common for people who feel they are either too late to accumulate enough BTC or have simply put their ego into their massive miscalculations.

>>15106592
>I notice BTC maximalists usually sound like they are mildly autistic
>mildly

>>15106666
Because your mum knows none of that

>>15105737
>demand grew exponentially.
Volume is down from 2 years ago. Less idiots paying less money per coin.

Etherium is where it's at. This btc shit is over, whales are cashing out

>>15106677
UND maxis sound like chads

>>15106671
I have more BTC than you, kid. A lot more. But I can see the writing on the wall with stablecoins eating into BTC's store of value use case. Don't be a zealot, it will cost you money.

>>15105812
>hyperbitcoinization
Made up word, fake news. Btc will crash once trump makes cashing out illegal

>>15106694
if we had btc adoption she would know is my point. but realistically she had full access to their bank account so she would to the btc too, i just wanted to give a trustless inheritance scenario.

>>15106700
>This btc shit is over, whales are cashing out
you know nothing you learned nothing you had years and years to understand. maybe after the next bubble and crash to $20k you wil learn.

>>15106573
What currency restrictions between China russia? Don't they trust each other?
BTC functions better in some cases and the demand is for a centralized borderless stablecoin. These are like bank transactions

>>15106712
okay...

>>15105812
>hyperbitcoinization is coming (speculation).
It is, but most of /biz/ doesn't understand that BTC is just the foundation of it all, and whatever will nudge BTC in the direction of mainstream adoption will only integrate with BTC, not be the coin itself.

>>15105845
BTC‘s value is based on thin air...read thecaseforbsv.com

>>15106734
Too lazy to read the article? I'll paste excerpts:
>OTC trading desks in Moscow are doing a roaring trade selling crypto, most of which finds its way back to China. But only 20% of sales are in Bitcoin, the rest are in stable coin, Tether (USDT). The trade comes from a constant flow of Chinese merchants, carrying bags of Rubles to exchange, made selling cheap important items on the grey market.
>Tether has seen most use as a temporary hedge against bitcoin price drops, and to expedite arbitrage opportunities. However, the Chinese merchants of Moscow find it has the ideal properties for their needs,and has allegedly been buying an estimated $10 million to $30 million daily, according to other news sources.
>More importantly, China imposes strict capital controls, limiting foreign currency purchases to $50,000 a year. Whilst additional quota can be applied for, grey market merchants are unlikely to risk exposing the scale of their businesses. Thus, cryptocurrency (and specifically Tether) is becoming a favoured method of bypassing such regulation.

>>15106711
>>15106712
The state of antibitcoiners. You guys make us intelligent people laugh
>>15106725
He losing a lot of money being in ETH vs BTC he's getting what he deserves.

>>15106753
this is a sad necessity. bitcoin and only bitoin has all thre of the fundamental properties of crypto: trustless, permissionless, secure. no other coin.
but btc can't scale fundamentally can't. it's easy to scale if you give up from these core tenets. but why would we give it up at the core of the ecosystem?? we can give some up at the periphery. and the periphery can scale to insane tx rate.

>>15106753
Hate to break it to you, but the world is not going to store large portions of its wealth in a casino coin, or a system run by Chinese mining cartels.

>>15106782
Whole countries already do.

>>15106782
we heard the same arguments for the last decade over and over. the honey badger doesn't give a fuck. if it crashes it only comes back stronger with a vengeance.

>>15106767
You don't sound intelligent when you assume people who point trends out like growth of stablecoins are "anti-bitcoin" This is not a team sport or a political convention.

You're being a zealot by believing in something and assuming it will continue along your graph lines forever, like a prophecy, without accounting for paradigm shifts and factors outside the status quo. Also, I hold many BTC, but I hold alts as well.

>>15106756
I read it days ago when it came out. Thanks for taking the time but you seem like an absolute idiot. Stablecoin transfers are a small part of BTC utility. Everyone knows it's best at fighting inflation. Look at the countries who spend the biggest % of GDP on it. Zimbabwe, Venezuela, China place with massive inflation and history of currency collapses. You're frustrated because the market won't agree with you. Bitcoin will go up without you, please do us strong hands a favor and sell all your BTC now, I don't want you making money when we moon

>>15106808
stable coins are absolute garbage they are no better than fiat currencies in any which way with the sole exception of dai which is actually interesting altho sadly based on eth which is possibly collapsing.

asset backed crypto is snake oil bullshit. you see it run up now, but it will crumble. it's no more durable then any fiat currency that already went to zero.

>>15106782
How stupid does this read to you? Casino coin? What is fiat? How did you find crypto? Go buy bonds

>>15106824
>t's no more durable then any fiat currency that already went to zero.
he'll never get it. He's on a crypto forum telling everyone to buy stablecoins. What a doof?

>>15106824
to put it in a more clear and concise way:
when you enable asset backed crypto you give the power of the central bank to private companies.

how fucking stupid is that? did you not learn your lessons? not even the biggest institutions with the most oversight can be trusted to act responsibly.

>>15106818
>I read it days ago when it came out
Then your reading comprehension is poor
>Stablecoin transfers are a small part of BTC utility. Everyone knows it's best at fighting inflation.
Now we're arguing over utility? Literally almost any crypto has more utility than Bitcoin, except for the SOV use case. Which stablecoins will take from it as they evolve. They are newer than Bitcoin and their tech is still being experimented with.

>please do us strong hands a favor and sell all your BTC now, I don't want you making money when we moon
>"we"
Zealot is the right word for you, as you speak like you are a member of a collective cult

>>15106754
The pajeets are back.

>>15106807
Lower volume, meaning lower adoption rate.
Whales are cashing out. Only hodl are left, buying in lower volume for more money.

The next grow, pump is xrp

>>15106842
You are dismissing an entire new asset class (stablecoins) with blanket statements. Now you sound just like the old fuddy-duddy talking heads who claim that BTC is worthless

I am agnostic when it comes to crypto. I try to stay objective. It's amusing to see the visionaries of yesterday become the old guard of today

>>15106782
Soon negative interest rates will be a common thing and storing in bitcoin will be a needed thing.

>>15104641
That's capital outflow. When every currency has been devalued then the smart money will move into anything that isn't fiat.

>>15106886
>You are dismissing an entire new asset class (stablecoins) with blanket statements.
i'm dismissing asset (security) backed crypto as the latest bullshit.

>>15106754
Guess I'll just go print some more bitco... oh wait...

>>15106886
>It's amusing to see the visionaries of yesterday become the old guard of today
if you think there is anything visionary about fractional reserve scams you need to go back a few hundred years.

>>15106892
Yes, there will be demand for deflationary assets, of which BTC is one. But it's also heavily manipulated, and I don't see that changing. I can imagine more demand for a less volatile, moderately deflationary asset which I think a stablecoin could be designed to be. Maybe BTC becomes that, maybe not, but I see more interest in something a little more grounded and compliant with the banking systems of major world powers

>>15106976
Actually, fractional reserve banking was quite innovative and instrumental in the development of modern banking. Once again, using words like scam makes you sound just like the no-coiner goofs in financial news media who pan BTC or the phony bank executives who probably accumulate it while they publicly decry it

>>15106790
https://bitcoinist.com/bulgaria-not-bitcoin-1-6b-finance-minister/

>GOVERNMENTS DON’T LIKE HODLING
As Bitcoinist reported, conspiracies about governments and central banks amassing bitcoin continue to pervade the community.

>Most recently, reports from a Kremlin economist surfaced that Russia had bought up BTC worth almost $9 billion via oligarchs and businesses.

>At the same time, Venezuela’s administration continues to publicize its dubious state-backed cryptocurrency, Petro, while remaining quiet on its relationship to decentralized cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin.

>Over the years, however, governments have set a trend for divesting themselves of cryptocurrency holdings, with the US holding its own auctions in 2014 and 2018 which saw coins change hands for as little as $630.

>>15107009
>Actually, fractional reserve banking was quite innovative and instrumental in the development of modern banking.
that's one thing but this is something else. and as history is the witness it got abused plenty. even with that oversight. giving the opportunity to private companies is just plain insane. i will touch any of these coins.

>>15107044
*i will never touch any of those shitcoins. usdc tether and the like.

>>15107037
>over the years governments have had a tendency to sell crypto at vastly reduced prices in order to try and keep the percieved value of their toilet paper currencies above water.

>>15107060
What's likely to happen at some point is a new Bretton Woods or something of that magnitude convenes and a new world monetary regime is devised, accounting for the rise (and threat) of cryptocurrencies to the power of sovereign states.

>>15107085
Cue msm narrative painting Christine Lagarde and the IMF as the saviours of the planet.

>>15107085
In the meantime we should be using the panic of capital flight to take every physical thing we can from these reptiles.

>>15107091
Of course. And they'll be using government-friendly adaptations of crypto tech to run their new kingdom.

>>15107085
>What's likely to happen at some point is a new Bretton Woods or something of that magnitude convenes and a new world monetary regime is devised
the us would fight this tooth and nail. why you think they are so upset about libra?

>>15107085
You are not taking into your calculation the fact that we are in the clown timeline and a new bretton woods won't happen because the retards in charge have still not realized every problem today comes from the post 1970 inflation and post 2008 quantitative easing destroying the youth.

Instead they brainwashed themselves to believe that by importing 10 africans for each citzen they can keep the fiat ponzi working and the pension systems won't collapse.

And the marxist retards like sanders are even worse they simply think they can print money non stop without consequences.

The only new "bretton woods" would be china forcing the brics to use the yuan as a reserve currency.
Brasil for food , india for manufacturing , russia for energy , south africa for minerals you get all those using yuan and you created a reserve currency.
Also i am sure that china in the 2030s will forbide all the debt to the countries they are giving nearly free infrastructure in exchange of using the yuan as a currency.

But in the western countries it's clownworld atm , there will not be a second bretton woods , bitcoin is probably the elite plan b in case the marxist retards like sanders take power.

BSV shills usually point of blockstream being bliderberg attacking btc , yet bitpay was founded by peter thiel also from bliderberg.

They seem to want bitcoin to have small blocks to be a banking system with massive hashrate and not a payment system.

>>15107091
Kek , the funniest thing is that bitcoin literally stopped the cashless society wet dream if they go that way with negative interest rates cryptos would moon even if they are banned.

>>15107118
The US would be at the center of it

>>15107118
Here's my theory. 3 separate monetary systems. China/Rus/Iran backing BTC/gold, Eurozone backed shitcoin, US backed god knows what. Guess who's winning?

>>15107132
All of what you said is true

>>15107149
doesn't look like china or russia would like to back btc. their attitude towards gold shows they are looking for something to replace the dollar. everyone is fed up with the us power over reserve. also the eurozone is actually the most powerful economic block on the planet. altho if the brits manage to quit that will eb the usa.

>>15107149
The sun hasn't set on the USA yet.

>>15107179
sorry the european union brits are not in euro zone.

>>15107179
They will because nobody sane wants the hot potato of being the primary reserve currency.

>>15107132
>>15107149
https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2019/07/29/china-could-be-about-to-throw-its-weight-behind-bitcoin/

>>15107225
This coupled with the fact that the Chinese will in no way support the use
of IMF special drawing rights. To me
It looks like a two horse race and china/rus/iran already have their solution.

>>15107225
>>15107266
jesus christ if that happens bitcoin will explode. we can see 0.1% adoption to slingshot to 5% or 10% in a few years.

>>15107225
It would not be suprised at all China could take the power of the usd as a reserve currency by legitimizing it.

In all honestly , the us would be the best country benefiting from cryptos , they would destroy the reserve currency long term but that's going to happen anyway.
But if Trump said tomorrow now everyone could use crypto buying stuff online in the usa then the usd would suffer a little more inflation which is what the fed wants.

Also other countries devaluing their currency against the usd would have their citzens escaping to crypto making devaluations unuseful whichi s what trump bitches the most rightfuly.

And if the usa becomes an easy place to cash out cryptos then anyone could buy stuff with cryptos through the usd.

But now no country could artificialy devaluate their currencies anymore without having their populations escaping their fiat until devaluing their currencies would no longer work.

Of course again we are in the clown timeline and the us would rather fight cryptos to try to keep the reserve currency status which is something that the us will lose due to simply haiving too little population and an old population.

>>15107210
Anon get's it ,being the reserve currency means you can print to hell but it also means your society get's culturally rekt as industry and services are outsourced because everyone devalues their currency to yours.
It's something that may seem good but it's a curse too.

>>15107291
If the eu goes full negative interest rates , and the us becomes either marxist with sanders type socialists or goes full imperialist putting sanctions into everyone you can bet it will happen.
Adopting btc for trade is all that china needs to do to bring down the usd as the reserve currency.

Ironically adopting btc for easy cashout in the usa is the thing that could save the usd by making the thing above unuseful but then again clown timeline.

>>15107291
It'll be strange being one of the richest guys on the cinder.

>>15106885
You mean 0xBitcoin. Its Bitcoin with the properties of Ethereum. Literally the best bitcoin implementation.

>>15107570
Zzzzzzzzzz...

>>15107570
shitcoiners never learn

>>15108092
elaborate, if you can. use words to explain your thinking. or are you just saying "shitcoin" with no real thinking behind it?

>>15108121
it means that alts are mostly inherently worthless. the reason behind it is twofold. it's 5 minutes work to fork a coin and make your own alt. and there is like a billion of them competing with each other for market share. there is no way to even think about separating the valuable innovative projects from the crap. because it's all about social media exposure and shill campaigns for p&ds. you will not know the best project you will know the one most shilled.
>>15105752

>>15108228
and the other reason is while everyone making shicoins is trying to imitate what satoshi did with bitcoin because everyone only sees that 1 million bitcoin he managed to mine while nobody was interested... but they can't. bitcoins story is irreproducible. even tho you can fork it in 5 minutes the fork will be worthless.

>>15108228
ok, thank you, that's decent. but 0xbitcoin is not a fork. it was the first of its kind, a mineable erc20. there's no company and there was no ico, so there's no huge marketing campaign, no money for exchange listings, etc. you seem to have a sensible attitude .. but somehow are not seeing that 0xbitcoin is one of the rare valuable projects that you seem to be talking about. it's mined like bitcoin, but has the advantages of an erc20. the contract is immutable and nobody is in control.

>>15108288
>0xbitcoin is not a fork.
i know that doesn't change all that much. many coins are made from scratch what i meant by that i could probably fork 0xbtc in 5 minutes if i put my mind to it. it's not unique in the many ways bitcoin is.

>>15108339
you definitely could fork 0xbitcoin in 5 minutes. people already have done so (e.g., to add hyperdeflationary features). but once your contract is up, you'd have a hard time achieving 10TH/s like 0xbitcoin. and we anticipate possibly receiving a lot of mining refugees when eth goes PoS.

>>15108379
>and we anticipate possibly receiving a lot of mining refugees when eth goes PoS.
hmm... interesting i assumed they would all go to eth classic.

>>15108387
it could definitely happen that way, we don't claim to know. i guess the reasonable thing to predict is some of both, and other stuff, in unknown proportions. the next two big events in our minds are 1) eth going PoS and 2) the first 0xbitcoin halvening
anyway, i review a lot of whitepapers and github repos and i'm depressingly aware of how much tech garbage there is being pumped with ico money. i just think 0xbitcoin is incredibly far distant from all of that, not really appropriate to call it a shitcoin. it's like an immutable public utility implemented with open source.

>>15108288
But what is it's market cap?

>>15108498
depends on whose stats you believe, i guess. but probably a bit over $1M.

>>15106754
Do you know what also has a value based on thin air ?

>>15108521
ROOKIE NUMBERS

>>15108544
sure, but some people like to invest BEFORE widespread adoption. i know this is heresy on biz.

>>15108542
scuba diver lives?

>>15108580
Now you're talking about speculation. With increasing market volatility and QE 2.0 debasing fiat left, right and center you're going to see a dash for safe havens.

>>15108439
yeah i get it people find it offensive when their favorite is called shitcoin, i got mainly two criteria for calling something a shitcoin 1) philosophical: it solely exists to take a chunk of the bitcoin market cap and create a distraction from real crypto adoption 2) as a technical point: it's nicehashable (and or a bitcoin pow minority chain)

on certain days i try to see the shitcoins competition as some darwinian evolutionary contest for technological progress on other days i'm just resentful for the market cap they take out of bitcoin in it's infancy.

It's now (((their))) coin.

>>15108632
hmm, i think you're looking at it from a much more financial perspective than i am. i'm a coder and i just judge it to be the most trustworthy and flexible kind of money i've ever seen. i'm not saying you're wrong, though, i just don't know how to evaluate it the way you are.
>>15108668
hmm, 0xbitcoin people really didn't set out to compete with bitcoin or try to steal share from it. we're actually huge fans of bitcoin, but bitcoin can't be programmed with smart contracts, and consensus is slow. from my perspective, it seems more likely i could do a typical craigslist payment via 0xbtc than with bitcoin since the tx is complete in 20s or whatever. we definitely do want adoption and use. we recently wrote a webshop-agnostic 0xbtc payment gateway to help serve that goal.

>>15108598

>>15105717
>. I'm so happy that BTC is making alt maximalists poor

hell yeah brother

>>15108737
>but bitcoin can't be programmed with smart contracts
so why not make it? bitcoin p2sh makes it programmable just not turing complete. you could run the dapp on ethereum and still govern the payout of bitcoin p2sh address. but you made your own shitcoin (sorry) despite what you say it does look like a grab for the cake.

>>15106308
Sure but it's the reality. No one wants to work on BTC when making their own shitcoin work means they're rich. Working on BTC being better means jack shit when the price will keep rising due to normie investors no matter what. You can keep saying that it's not true or it's only due to this one thing or if we rounded up all shitcoin developers and gassed them it would be different, but until it is different it's the reality, and I'm not going to sit here and be a BTC maximalist when half of the reason that people are even BTC maximalists is because the price goes higher than other shitcoins.

>>15108737
Bitcoin has all the resilience and functionality required for it to be considered an electronic store of value. In a hostile environment where purchasing power is going to be catastrophically eroded, smart capitalists are going to use the tools available to them to preserve their wealth. Bitcoin is the least risky electronic option. Altcoiners lost the battle before they even started it.

>>15104563
the FED is a "fucking ponzi"

>>15108977
sorry, i think you're begging the question a lot. and there's room in the world for more than one kind of money. i like bitcoin, i of course regard it as the OG, but satoshi didn't have ethereum to work with. 0xbitcoin benefits from tech advancements that happened in later years. if you take an honest look at it, you have to conclude that 0xbitcoin is bitcoin for ethereum, but with much faster txs, administrated by an immutable program rather than humans, and programmable via smart contracts. no offense to the OG, but that is a fair assessment of 0xbitcoin. i hold both, of course.

>>15104563
one day it will become stable

>>15106711
This is representative of a new stablecoin movement coming up. I think it I'd well founded as a concern. But the stablecoins are being based off what, USD fiat? BTC is independent from that.

>>15109057
Kys

>>15109158
can you form a sentence? take some words you know and transfer the ideas in your brain into language so i can know what they are. that's the point of this board. thanks.

>>15109057
I know this is a novel concept but you don't need inflation to ensure economic growth.

>>15109227
can you elaborate? i'm not sure we disagree about anything.

>>15109259
Ethereum is subject to a constant 0.5 - 2% inflation which in my opinion is unnecessary.

>>15109377
i don't disagree with that. in the 0xbitcoin world we generally strongly favor hard caps and deflation.

>>15108737
What's the point of having SC capability if the average John doesnt know how to program a smart contract?

If I want to pay Jimmy for working on my house but he didn't finish yet, how am I gonna simply execute that transaction unless I know how to program the IF COMPLETE blah blah condition?

Trades and exchanges are instantaneous for the majority of people. I'm not seeing the huge demand for 0xBTC

>>15108931
>Working on BTC being better means jack shit when the price will keep rising due to normie investors no matter what.
i was talking about adoption and stuff like >>15108921

tokenizing btc on eth chain in a 2 way pegged manner would have been an admirable and worthwhile project. everything what 0xbtc isn't imo.

working on adoption means making better clients also like supporting bitcoins scripting capability to the fullest with complex multisig-fallback scheme wallets.

working on btc sync mechanism that doesn't require full block archive from a node...

there are literally thousands of things you could develop for btc that does not involve you committing to core repo.

>>15109397
well, i certainly can't claim to have a normal mentality or understand what most people want, but i'll give you an example. as i mentioned, we recently made a webshop-agnostic 0xbtc payment gateway that can be integrated into any shop that sells anything, so that shop owners don't have to know anything about ethereum or smart contracts to get paid. the shop owners can then go trade 0xbtc on any dex and do whatever they want. no need for kyc or any account with any company like stripe or any exchange. totally decentralized acceptance of payments thanks to smart contract interop.
as for paying jimmy, it's most likely going to be done with something like trust wallet, settled in 20 seconds.
now, that's actually similar for any erc20. whether you prefer 0xbitcoin depends on how you feel about proof of work.

>>15104563
t. doesn't know what a ponzi is

>>15109393
Until it's implemented there's nothing to go on.

>>15110052
sorry, struggling a bit to get your point. 0xbitcoin doesn't need eth to implement a hard cap. it's separate. we're content for eth to be capless and for people not to use it as a store of value.

>>15106711
>I have more BTC than you, kid.
I'm 31 faggot, and I'm close to never needing to work again even with a family so I wouldn't be so sure of that. You're an absolute retard if you think bitcoin could lose it's lunch to a stablecoin.

>>15110794
Good for you, loser

>>15103846
altcoins will be purged, bow to your Master shitcoiners

is there anything of value in this thread? why the fuck has it got this many replies

>>15110974
value is assigned by an observer

>>15111100
damn. checked

>>15103846
LINK will make btc irrelevant

>>15107009
Do you think you are making a case FOR fractional reserve banking when you say it created modern banking?
It would have already failed if not for its debts being transferred to future generations