/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>14916734
No Anon, Proof of Work can't work.

Keeping the Bitcoin chain alive is already using more power than Switzerland.

If you look at Bitcoin from a global perspective and not the meme circle jerk that is the Bitcoin community itself it's pretty clear that this is absolutely unsustainable, especially considering that Bitcoin is barely used for anything beyond playing hot potato on exchanges.

Even if BTC would somehow fix their fees and scalebility (which will never happen) and it would somehow turn into an actual worldwide financial system that is widely used by normal people, it would require a million times more electricity, absolutely impossible.

Proof of Stake is the future, and stablecoins are the future too. Like DAI, running on Ethereum. DAI is the true Libra. not owned by a corporation or centralized within a certain jurisdiction and stable as fuck.

There's nothing honorable in mining you absolute fuckface, you're just running code and getting paid for processing transactions. Go help at your local homeless shelter instead of ranting about 'single digit shitcoins' on a Mongolian Basket Weaving forum.
If you want to be honorable in techspace you should be contributing to opensource code.

>>14916992
>There's nothing honorable in mining
you're fucking retarded disprestful piece of shit.
without miners crypto would not exist at all
we give real value to the coins

and yes, there'll be a time when mining will consume the majority of earth's resources. keeping integrity of currencies is worth it.

>>14917055
>we give real value to the coins
what you assholes are doing is artificially increase the difficulty of mining and take it out of the hands of regular people. only those with access to specific and expensive hardware can mine and make a profit nowadays. you are the cancer of crypto by not understanding that cryptocurrencies are made for the people by the people, instead now everything is centralized as fuck thanks to some greedy shits that think they have a moral highground to bitch about reward reduction.

>>14916734
>your mentally retarded
my mentally retarded what? finish the sentence

>>14916734
>proof of stake can't work. all non-shitcoins use proof of work.
based
that's why Dero is the superior Ethereum

>>14917106
Lmao. Every single ETH thread for 2 years now. Some Indian cockroach crawls from under his rock and squeaks the name of his ETH killer. It knows by experience already that if he creates his own thread, there would be no interest. At least in an ETH thread he can get some views.

>>14916734
Miners are not doing the "hard work", anon. First, it's automated. Second, you gotta be living in a country with cheap energy like China or Russia, so it depends on luck too. Maybe the "hard work" comes to tweaking/overclocking the hardware so that your operations stay above the profitability line.

>>14916734
>Honorable & Hardworking
>Sitting on your ass getting paid to do absolutely nothing
Pick one.

>>14917179
>overclocking the hardware
that shows how stupid you are and could never dream of running a profitable mining farm because it takes smarts and hard work.
you UNDERCLOCK hardware to keep it profitable retard also you can run miner operation anywhere chinese just get cheaper electricity but it's still profitable and where i live electricity is one of the most expensive in the world. but if you're really smart you can still make a profit. you could'nt though.

>>14916992
>If you want to be honorable in techspace
What about just good ol’ fashioned space?

>>14917211
i spend my life building connections so for example i made friends with a hardware vendor and get cheaper gpus from it also know a lot of people in a lot of places because i'm not an incel like you and there's a lot of work to have a mind that is capable of building a profitable mining farm. we're not code monkeys and don't spend our day hitting the keyboard but we build connections and party and still make a profit

>>14917179
Lol you’re plain wrong and haven’t operated any kind of medium or large scale mining system.
If you think it’s automated, then you truly have no idea what you’re talking about

Mine something else then fuckface

>>14917290
i will but ethereum is still far overvalued so it's most profitable to mind this shitcoin. wait until single digit so miners can turn away and 50% attack this shit to 0

>>14917252
>Lol you’re plain wrong and haven’t operated any kind of medium or large scale mining system.
Come enlighten me. Mining is centralized around mining hubs and/or asic manufacturers anyway.

>>14917215
Lmao @ ego inflated šoi boi.
You literally running server room nothing more.
You just have to calculate expenses and amortization of miners. You could also include btc price fluctuation bit that's not necessary if you got access to cheap electricity.
Just plug in and check if they work.

>>14917297
if tron had ETH's marketcap i'd turn 10x teh profit btw. that's how tron values miners. just a heads up. look out the flippening.

>>14916992
proof of stake is a ponzi u retard

>>14916734
>and i dump every single ethereum i get instantly
Are you trying to prove what's that PoS is going to great? If so, good job.

>>14917330
i'm pointing out that the smartest players in crypto are NOT holding on to ETH, they even get rid of the ones they get immediately
try to figure out what that means

>>14916734
>i own a large mining farm that i put an insane amount of money and work into,
Oy Vey

>>14916992
You do realise energy consumption has nothing to do with network use right? The energy consumption has to do with the difficulty of the network is divided by the amount of miners. Satoshi actually covered this in the white paper and explains how energy demand will stabilise once price does. Essentially when BTC is worth 400k or more and the mining reward per block is like 3 bitcoins, you’ll have far fewer miners on the network but they’ll be very powerful and the network will be secure while keeping energy consumption at a minimum since the barrier to entry for miners will be so high that nobody else will bother.

>>14917372
this. you're litreally throwing shit at the most powerful people in the crypto space from 2020 onwards
choose your fgucking words

>>14917344
Miners are the dumbest people in crypto regardless of the coin.
Most don't make any profit. That's why you are so angry, aren't you? You keep mining because you get more than electricity costs, but the total roi is negative.
You had a delusional hope of eventually making what you wasted on hardware over the years, but the prospect of tenthening in 2021 destroyed that.

>>14916734
oof

>>14916734
So...
ETH is down because of super salty miners...
ETH is moving to PoS which will remove the sell pressure from salty miners

dare I say... MOON?

>>14917092

I like this response a lot. Definitely stealing it

>>14917372

>far fewer miners
>Secure

hmm, hmm NONONO!

>>14917445
Yes this thread is a kind anon reverse fudding to reach your conclusion. Unironically.
Thanks OP

>>14916734
The devs are so desperate to pump their coins everyday as the ETHBTC ratio is dumping on daily basis

>>14916734
>miner thinking he’s smarter and more qualified than the people who made the thing he’s mining

>>14917392
Kek true. I knew he was a dumbfuck as soon as he called us codemonkeys. He probably calls his doctor a witch.

>muh I build connections

Dumb faggot

Rip ETH. Go long on Tezos.

>>14917445
ETH moving to PoS will destroy what little value the coin has as the cost of production plummets with reduced energy consumption. Also expect the SEC to reclassify it as a security. Also, pic related is the type of faggot who shills ETH here. ETH will never flip bitcoin and anyone who thinks that has a snowball's chance in hell of happening is deluded beyond help

>>14917736
>ETH moving to PoS will destroy what little value the coin has as the cost of production plummets with reduced energy consumption
wtf are you even talking about, do you have any idea of price formation? dude, stop it now, you're spewing such nonsense that very few could

>>14917306
Tron is DPOS and doesn't have miners you retard

>>14917297
>50% attack
you know. maybe this is why its not working. you guys need another 1%

>>14917806
Watch the price get pumped by retail plebs for their "passive income ticket" and then slowly bleed to double digits after Proof of Stake.

>>14916734
Proof of work= CAPITALIST
Proof of stake=COMMUNIST

>>14916992
>Keeping the Bitcoin chain alive is already using more power than Switzerland
Ban Switzerland.

>>14917929
Kek

>Mining is hard

>>14917943
Chainlink=SCAM

>>14916734
good work anon, keep up the good gospel people must understand eth will never switch to pos and will kill itself by fucking miners

>>14916992
you are just retarded, you don't get those choose what is valueable or what is not, people watching porn on pcs wastes double the electricity the bitcoin network uses guess we should shut down porn first

>>14916992
>I'm new
Inb4 '17

>>14918010
this

>>14917736
dude you are literally 100% right POS is a complete scam, at best it can be used for bitcoin sidechains

>>14917806
Also see >>14918077

>>14917936
>>14918107
price formation in crypto has nothing to do with "cost of production", mates

there is no lower bound in price when eth switches to pos, also it will act like shitty industrial metals like silver where that get pumped and dumped, just convince all the plebs to lock their eth and then they pump and dump it cause their stacks are the only liquid ones

Reading through the latest Ethereum Core Dev call notes and it appears that EIP-2025 is being seriously considered as an EIP for Istanbul.

EIP-2025 adds 0.044 ETH per block for 3,100,000 blocks to go to a dev fund. That’s 136,400 ETH.

also they are doing this shit now, going the zcash way and have seignorage shares, this is exactly how fiat money was born.
eth has just passed through the whole monetary scam cycle in a very low amount of time.
these guys are kids and vitalik is a cult leader.
im not saying eth won't pamp again cause it will when they switch to pos, im just saying that eth is the biggest ponzi in crypto worse then tron and eos together

>>14918162
>there is no lower bound in price when eth switches to pos
neither it is with pow, remember all the shitcoin altcoins from the pre-2017 era? they're bitcoin forks.

ln2 price formation, miners don't determine the price

>>14918190
you are comparing apples with dolphins, microcaps can get pumped and dump with very low amount of btcs
ethereum has a market cap big enough that production costs matter
only an absolute brainlet doesn't understand the stock to flow ratio, miners are a constant sell pressure on market and they have a lower bound under which they won't sell their eth thats called production costs, with POS you have no suc lower bound and supply will only accentrate in the hands of few whales that will pump and dump the price , eth will probably behave like silver

>>14918233
>miners are a constant sell pressure on market and they have a lower bound under which they won't sell their eth thats called production costs
do you believe this is some sort of fancy socialism, right? that miners have to be bailed out at any cost? miners can and do become unprofitable. when those quit, the difficulty is readjusted.

miners represent just a tiny fraction of the sell pressure. it is determined by speculation. look at the volume, for godness sake, compare it with how much is mined. miners don't define the price. if they were gone, the price would continue to be defined by speculation as before.

>>14916734
this is actually bullish

>>14917302
this, its mainly an investment in the hardware, you have to pay some highschool level educated people to do the maintenance if you are huge enough

>>14918158
Wow, great insight newfag!
Fuck me, you're dumb!

>>14918425
the price is determined by speculation. speculators don't give a shit about how much it costs to produce blocks. time to stop posting.

>>14918457
>the price is determined by speculation
No shit, REALLY!?!?!?!
Fuck me you're smart! How long did it take to figure that out newfag?
> time to stop posting.
I agree please go back

>>14918346
no i don't believe this is some sort of socialism.
also i think non POW coins are just scams, im just saying that pow gives a lower bound to price
if the initial allocation is no retarded like in the case of eth was

>>14918457
you are just a retarded niggers thinks prices can just get completely out of touch with reality and prodiuction costs, thats exactly how eth bubble popped, and it has not yet found bottom btc

>>14918641
pow does not make any guarantees about the price. how do you think the lower bound is supposed to hold? no one cares if the miners are profitable or not, the price just follows its course. if anything, miners can't sustain it upwards by selling.

>>14918657
the price if formed by orders and order books. do you believe someone asks miners what the price should be? i don't think so, pal

>>14918796
go read how extraction commoditys work get educated

>>14918819
crypto is not "extraction commodities". just because the process is called mining, it doesn't mean it functions like physical metals. you don't believe your computer mouse is the same as a biological mouse, don't you?

>>14918874
ctfc has declared bitcoin an extraction commodity you imbecile go read , the bitcoin standard and get our of your shitcoinery it will only get you rekt

>>14918895
you can't rely on boomers to understand the process. the point stands, the price in pow does not depend on "production costs" because it's a totally different game than metals. if physical metals were too expensive to mine, no one would. with crypto, it's impossible. even shitty bitcoin forks are mined by someone. just speculation here.

You bought all this mining equipment betting on the future spec to remain what it currently is. Sorry about that. Unless you're stealing electricity I don't see the real reason to mine new coins vs just buying it, given the equipment, upkeep and all that shit. It just seems like a roundabout way to spend money, while having converted some of your money into something tangible you can look and see (video cards etc.). Lots of people need to convert money to stuff to feel fulfilled, sorry you're one of them.

>>14917084
>muh decentralization
Large-scale miners are heavily invested with capital and operating costs compared to some rando with a fucking PC, they have the most incentive to keep the cryptocrrency alive and well and the most risk should it fail. This is proof-of-work working as intended.

>>14919336
t. brainlet

>>14917055
Everyone laugh at this retard

>>14919505
t. retard

>>14917306
>tron
>the flippening
lel op is just another pajeet, fuck outta here

>>14919517
>G-guys, r-respect me! I'm a miner! the backbone of crypto!
Said no one ever. Miners are just leeches

>>14916734
Why don't you hodl if they are going to do a 10 fold reduction? Means price will moon, no?

>>14919205
>I'm smarter than everyone else
I though you said you were going to stop posting?

Look newfag, if you were about in '15 you'd know how amazing it was when BTC was determined to be a commodity. PoS is going to be a security, read the latest guidance below.

https://www.sec.gov/corpfin/framework-investment-contract-analysis-digital-assets

No way you can read that & not think PoS has a a huge possibility of being a Security. You should be thankful the CFTC are in control.

>>14919568
Try reading a book one of these days,

>>14919587
So did chainlink register as a security yet? They literally meet the criteria to a t.

>>14919587
whether something in crypto is a commodity or a security is just burger kike mumbo-jumbo, it has nothing to do with reality and only affects the price in the way of not being accessible to normies on burger exchanges

>>14916734
You waste more energy than 2 Africans, so you should kys

>>14917106
Based and Deropilled!

>>14919653
Buddy, its a unregistered security that didn't even KYC. the foreign corp wont help, as the US have CFC (controlled foreign corporation) regulations.

A while back an Anon from the future posted this pic of Sir Gay.

>>14916992

>>14916734

>>14917179
Oh, didn't realize it was automated. Thought people did it with pencil and paper! You utter retard

>>14919726
t. fedora-tipping miner

>>14919676
I'm amazed you know how to type!
>it has nothing to do with reality
US (((Persons))) (that corporations for the retarded) won't/can't use unregistered securities. They will be 'money transmitters'. You've just killed 'adoption'
>only affects the price in the way of not being accessible to normies on burger exchanges
I know you fail to understand the world. The US is the ruler of the world. Here is a few ways to entangle yourself in US Jurisdiction
1. Do business (contract) with US (((PERSONS)))
2. Use the USD, even if the transaction just gets routed through Burgerland
3. Use .com/.net

Now be quiet, Adults want to speak

>>14917055
Lmao you provide no value other then trying to enrich yourself. You stupid fat monkey

>>14919794
that was not the point, you monkey. i'd rather burgers banned all crypto altogether.

>>14919932
>you monkey
P R O J E C T I N G

>i'd rather burgers banned all crypto altogether.
Luckily no one give a fuck about your uninformed POV

>>14916992

Kys

>>14916992
>PoS

>i DUMP every single ETH the moment i mine it.
yikes

>>14916734
how do i convince my early gen xer father who was raised in front of a TV just like a boomer that his cryptokitties are retarded and losing 33% of a stack, even if it's fucking $60, is not viable AND TO FUCKING ESCAPE ETHEREUM IMMEDIATELY? PLEASE HELP

>>14917943
>Proof of stake=COMMUNIST

no, both capitalism

>>14917055

Homie, give us some good reasons beyond your own personal investments in mining POW why it's better than POS. It's incredibly wasteful and slow.

>>14917302
>People who operate server rooms don't deserve to make enough money to live on

>>14917239

Holy run on sentence. PLEASE give us some periods and commas.

>>14916734
Oh man I bet it’s such hard work to plug some stuff in and pay bills. If you think you are working you’re never gonna make it. You’re just another sad faggot that can’t work.

>>14917055
lol you just do it for the money faggot, stop bitching about your job or just wage

>>14916734
Go back to school you illiterate fuck.

>>14917055
>there'll be a time when mining will consume the majority of earth's resources. keeping integrity of currencies is worth it.

This is literally the most retarded thing I have read on this website and it's the reason bitcoin has nowhere to go but down.

>>14920468
POS relies on the token already having value to secure it and it can only be valuable if it's secure. It's circular logic kept floating only through fomo like a ponzi. Bitcoin price also has the ponzi element but the security is not based on the price. POS has applications but it's not replacing POW in Bitcoin.

>>14920603
if you had the captial to start competitive mining operation you would shit your pants and probably give up not 10% of the way though getting it up and running

>>14920903
I get super pissed off when comcast cuts my internet out for "maintenance" and my node goes down
I couldn't imagine how stressed I would be if it was costing me money