/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>14479144
we don't.
The majority here knows we need btc to rise and shine in order for the entire crypto market to follow.
We shill shit projects to flip for profit in order to get more btc. Now fuck off

>>14479144
BTC is not fungible
and it is actually pretty shit if you use it

>>14479144

Btc is like an ETF used to buy interesting projects with. In itself it'll maybe go 20x, but projects like orion protocol will go 1000x easily

>>14479254
LOL u r dumb asf

because i don't want to pay $30 in transaction fees and wait two hours.

Most don't, those that do hate it because it reminds them they are failures. They aren't as smart as they think they are, otherwise they would have seen it's potential and be a part of the great run in mankind.

Now they shill shit like LINK hoping it becomes the next bitcoin so they can pat themselves on the back for being visionaries and buying on early.

>>14479144
transaction will be confirmed in 40 hours

because it's the main coin, and it's cool to hate on the top dog. people want to make insane profits, which BTC nowadays doesn't really do. it's the most stable, and as such the most boring.
also, it's mostly from leftovers from when BTC was absolute shit and had ridicilous fees, something i think has been fixed nowadays, but not really sure about that one.
t

>>14479144
People that hate btc are brainlet. If btc failed, all cryptos would go to oblivion for at least 5~10 years. Trust would pretty much disappear from the grand normie public. It would take a long time to recover and convince people this failure is not happening again.

>>14479144
because only 20 autists left in this board. Rest of it baghodling or bottom selling salty normies from december 2017.

>>14479144
So they can buy more

>>14479144
a) missed out and can't deal with this fact
b) BTC gave up on the idea of scaling completely.
large fees are WANTED because they bring in hashrate and lighting network is garbage.
the only function it currently has is as a store of value, which means buying it now will not make any poor NEETs rich and simultaneously nothing will replace it (because of the large fees that small blocks bring)

>>14479340
It's up $4000 this month though.

>>14479294
>>14479306
But this board only cares about its price. 99% here don't even know what linkies can do.

If your on /biz and arent a Bitcoin bagholder you should kys. theres actually no amount of /biz advice that can save you. have fun fuking fat chicks.

>>14479371
look at this dumb son of a bitch

>>14479144
because theyre mostly dumb zoomers who want their shitcoins to take over

which is retarded because 90% of all computations done for mining coins went into bitcoin

>>14479144

The truth is the people doing that all hold bitcoin, but they also want 1000% tomorrow, which bitcoin can’t give them.

So they all shill shitcoins, the only way shitcoins are viable is if noobs believe bitcoin sucks.

So basically a bunch of oldfag trolls are trying to get noobs to part with their bitcoins.

>>14479144
because most people here dont have much BTC. they are waiting for a "dip" they dont have the balls nor money to catch, or worse, are holding shitcoins instead.

>>14479229
well said sir

>>14479229
checked

>>14479144

i love btc,and so does kek

>>14479294
i sent some last night for $1.50 and it took 10min

>>14479144
the average person here is very poor and owns zero bitcoin.

>>14481315
ur not from these parts

>>14479144
Have you ever used BTC? It's fucking stone age dude it takes forever & isn't cheap

>>14479144
bitcoin is practically a failure.
zero adoption, only pump and dumps

>>14479144
bitcoin sucks

>>14481847
>>14481813
You have to be retarded. Go fucking back to whatever faggot's hole gave birth do you

>>14479144
Very simple, Bitcoin has fundamentals on its side and therefore BTC holders can just wait for reality to assert itself, no need to spend your limited time arguing with retards and shills.

if you are against bitcoin you should just kill yourself

>>14479144
Bears hate it because they're bears and if it rises that makes their thesis wrong.
The anti-Bitcoin pro-AltCoin people are scammers involved in the altcoin industry who want people to stop spending money on bitcoin and start spending it on whatever garbage they're putting out that has never been and will never be used in any actual exchanges for goods or services.

>>14481813
>>14481847

>>14479229
Checked and truthpilled

>>14479144
Because they're all salty that they didn't get in at like $10.

>>14479144
Because Core. Btc is no longer Bitcoin.

>>14481957
Reminder that nobody outside this cesspool of pajeet shills and teenage neets gives a fuck about shitcoins and scamforks.

>>14479144
Its just jelly Anons (Mainly Zoomers) that claim others got 'lucky'.
BTC is the cryptp reserve currency, Get some!
Let me give the the best advice you can get! ANY coin that is not PoW is a scam!

>>14481940
no u

>>14479144
because it's shit. LN is a failure. you still have to fund LN channels with an on chain tx wich means on chain tx fees. same when cashing out of LN another on chain tx and fee. LN is not only broken it's an outright lie. there is only one way to avoid high fees and that is with bigger blocks. segwit helps to some extent but it can only do so much. the blocks must be bigger to have lower fees.

>>14479144
Because we remember the times when it was a cryptoCURRENCY and not a ponzi.
In order to succeed crypto needs to consolidate into 1 cryptocurrency. Maybe 3 tops (if they have different value propositions).
Corekeks hope that the consolidation will happen around this current crippled version of BTC which is literally the most useless shitcoin in the cmc top 100. We hate corekeks more than we hate BTC.

>>14482395
>ANY coin that is not the #1 PoW coin is a scam!

fixed that for you

>>14482442
Thank you Anon!

>>14482343
And still both btc and bch will survive.

The irony is that any better coin than btc has less fees and thus less hashrate and thus more exposed to 51% attacks.

Core is not retarded in not forking to improve they would have opened the pandoras box just like craig attacking bch.

>>14482426
LN is a meme to justify not forking that said not improving btc is the right choice.
A fork of the first and true crypto would be terrible just like bch vs bsv but on steroids.

>>14482435
It's still a cryptoCURRENCY , just that the dream of buying cofee with it is dead.
But it's being used to send money internationally every day.

I hold 90% btc, 10% bch and I've worked for various crypto companies. Bought btc at $130.

**Immutability & Security**
>These two are very closely related, a immutable transaction is only immutable if the security is also top notch. At the moment there is no stronger network than the strongest proof of work chain, it can't be taken down by even governments if they wanted to. Proof of stake isn't solved yet, delegated proof of stake is centralised.

**Fair distribution**
>Bitcoin had the most fair distribution of any project out there. Everyone had a fair shot of increasing their bitcoin stack for years. Satoshi still has 1 million coins but after 10 years it's fair to say he will not use them, even if he did it's less than 5% of the supply.

**Deflationary asset & scarcity**
>These two terms also pair together. This asset will decrease in inflation if time increases, after a few halvings most of the coins will have been mined. If you wanted to mine more right now, you can't. Mining difficulty is maybe the greatest invention of satoshi. If people wanted more gold, you can get more gold if you invested more resources. Deflationary assets also make for a great savings account, as none can be printed. (further reading by on scarcity https://www.amazon.com/Bitcoin-Standard-Decentralized-Alternative-Central/dp/1119473861))

**Decentralisation**
>Bitcoin is the most decentralised of any project, there is no leader. People can claim blockstream is leading, but there less than a handful of devs from blockstream developing for bitcoin. That means it's politically decentralised.

>Bitcoin is architectural and logically decentralised, if 90% of the nodes die it will still work. The blocksize debate is often mentioned if you talk about decentralisation, the ability for anyone to join to mine right now and in the future is important. (further reading from vitalik https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/the-meaning-of-decentralization-a0c92b76a274))

>>14480926
he's right though and btc is dead
nobody is incentivised to send tx when they are high, people will keep coins on exchange so they don't need to move them
and with enough halvings mining won't be profitable
it's doomed without scaling block size and more focus on high number of tx
Amazon they are giants because they focus on many small sales
bsv will be amazon

>>14482677
The fees miners collect on btc are peanuts compared to what they could be getting. The halving is going to really fuck things up for them.

>>14482739
I don't understand why you hold 10% in bcash. Also do you rebalance to 10% as it loses value relative to BTC?

List of bcash vulnerabilities of the top of my head:

- something like 5% hashrate of compared to BTC means 51% attack is imminent any time a BTC pool operator feels like fucking with the retard network (let alone nation state attacker)
- lack of transaction fees means perpetual inflation will have to be forked in to incentivize anyone to mine, say goodbye to 21M cap
- if somebody wants to censor the network by mining empty blocks (like a nation state attacker), there are no fees on top of coinbase to incentivize 'honest' miners to compete with the attacker by including transactions in the blocks

>>14480987

>>14479144
I dont, I've got half a bitcoin and not selling for under 100k.

>>14479144
All other coins are designed to scam people out of BTC. https://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/everyones-a-scammer/

>>14483069
>- something like 5% hashrate of compared to BTC means 51% attack is imminent any time a BTC pool operator feels like fucking with the retard network (let alone nation state attacker)

No, it's close to 5% now. It's just a hedge against bch gaining popularity to btc. You never know what will happen, but I do know some form of bitcoin will stay.

>>14482873
The key words are "what they could" you are assuming that if btc had a 10x capacity btc would be more worthy and thus they would get more.


But the game theory goes against that , if btc is forked the price would go to hell and miners would once again earn 1sat per tx.

They would not risk that as such any fork of btc will end up being less worthy of the cucked version.

BCH is playing long term and maybe will become more worthy , but libra may steal it's market.

It was hijacked.

>>14483348
This. I can't believe some dumb motherfuckers here still don't realize the importance of bitcoin as a mainstay. Everyone here should own 1 btc before getting into alts (other than LINK, you should own LINK whenever you can). BTC is literally the only completely safe bet in crypto.

>>14483348
I would not say that LTC is based and redpilled and bch is trying.

But yea bitcoin is the reserve currency of the crypto world due to this.

>>14483069
What many consider btc vulnerabilities such as high fees due to small blocks are in reality it's greatest strenght.

LN propaganda is used to keep the brainlets from trying to fork.

>>14479144
Because biz is full of incel söyboys that loves bathing in his own shit.

Low IQ(0-115) people hate BTC and go all in on shitcoins thinking they will get rich quick, 115-130 IQ midwits think bitcoin is important but fall for scams like BSV or BCH and think bitcoin is imperfect and can be improved upon, 130-145 anons realize BTC underpins the entire cryptosphere and usually hold 50% BTC as a solid base and dabble in shitcoins hoping to get rich quick. 145-160 IQ realize BTC is the future monetary system and are usually bitcoin maximalists, 160+ IQ anons realize bitcoin is a gift from god handed down to mankind through 250+ IQ satoshi nakamoto and is designed perfectly, they are usually radical bitcoin maximalists

>>14481345
Is that actually supposed to be a good thing..?

>>14483420
This

Without btc and it's pow game theory the cryptomarket of shitcoins would be worth 0.

They exist because they steal energy to bitcoin not the other way around.

>>14479144
>>14479229
>>14479291
>>14479303
>>14479340
>>14479362
>>14479364
>>14479370
>>14480625
>>14480926
>>14480986
>>14481009
>>14481396
>>14481957
>>14481985
>>14482293
>>14482302
>>14482342
>>14482386
>>14482395
>>14483177
>>14483348
>>14483402
>>14483416
>>14483420
Daily reminder that BTC is slow and outdated tech
It will soon go to 0 and the alts with upgraded tech will moon

>>14483574

>>14479144
cause they want it cheaper

>>14483507
I always go for the mr house ending.

>>14483574
Choose 2

The elite choose security and decentralization

>>14479144
It's just shills. After a while you just learn to ignore them.

>>14483628
Woke , also mr house is the perfect green wojack as the house always wins and so do bitcoin.

>>14483606
Hi brainlet btc is slow and outdated tech with high transaction fees to wait $5 paying 2 hours before arriving on coinbase
Other coins are faster and cheaper

>>14483636
The elite do not care about "scalability" because the plebs are not intended to be on chain, it will be a small club so it does not need to scale much. The goyim will be slowly kicked off chain through high fees, slow transactions, and falling victim to the altcoin/over trading scam. The plebs will be given an ersatz bitcoin to use(segwit + lightning network)

>>14483671
It's an asset now, not money. I'm sure you pay for your mcdonalds with stock too. Fuck off.

>>14483574
COPE

>>14483177
Change your goal to at least 1 million or you're going to off yourself.

>>14483704
>>14483735
He actually think btc is like a stock the absolute state of btc maxis
News flash read the satoshi paper he says digital cash to buy coffee you damn new fags
Btc is toast it is going to 0 soon so newer tech can moon

>>14479144
Because they missed the bull run and want to buy low

this looks like playing out

>>14483769
Closed systems suffer increasing levels of entropy and die.

Satoshi was 250+ IQ genious , he realized that the increasing level of entropy in bitcoin was going to be the massive blockchain causing centralization and the death of the system.

So he put the 1mb limit without consulting any brainlet before disappearing.

>Btc is toast it is going to 0 soon so newer tech can moon

No

>>14483769
It does not matter how good the new tech is, there will be no fair distribution. Bitcoin had 10 years, everyone had a fair shot. No fucking team with 50% tokens to dump on your faggot ass.

>>14484251
Woke , yes , this is why forks of btc have a high price relative to shitcoins.

>>14479144
lurk moar

>>14483574

>>14482677
You people are so clueless. There's literally no problem with forking in upgrades. I'm glad that's the general Corecuck mentality though, so they'll be btfo in due time.

Remember: alts wouldn't have ever been relevant had Blockstream not forked the protocol into a frankencoin and scaled. BTC would already be over 100k.

>>14479144
pyramid schene

>>14479144
It popped already, the last bullrun was way to quick, and we are going way lower then 2018.
Look at the daily, and compare to the monthly of 2017 :)

>>14479144
I am grateful to bitcoin everyday. Hating bitcoin is like hating the sun and the rain.

>>14483360
>you are assuming that if btc had a 10x capacity btc would be more worthy and thus they would get more.

No I'm assuming there would be more transaction volume.

because this bullrun has finished. I'm out. I'll change my tune when we're back down to 5000.

>>14479306
mempool cleared last night 1 sat/byte transactions in the next block
yet idiots like you probably pay 2000 sat/byte and blame blockstream or something lol

>>14484834
>Muh Blockstream

>>14483636
Elites chose systems they can control. LN is just banking 2.0.

>>14482426
>on chain tx wich means on chain tx fees. same when cashing out of LN another on chain tx and fee
loop in loop out is completed meaning that there is only 1 interaction with the mainchain
also bitcoin can slosh around in a channel indefinitely so interacting with the mainchain is rare

>>14483704
>stock
Yeah man. Just like how gold is a stock.

I only buy shitcoins to get more bitcoin fromt he profit

>>14483848
The cap was put in to stop spam before btc had any economic value, brainlet. Satoshi said Bitcoin never his a scale ceiling and could outperform Visa for cheaper in 09'. Where do you idiots come from? Seriously go and try to spam bsv.

>>14485154
and the community decided we don't want banks being the only nodes so we kept the blocksize limit

another thing I've heard is satoj didn't know the proper inflation amount of he just halved it until it goes to near 0
will that work? the bitcoin community thinks so, we will find out in 20 years or whatever if transaction fees can supplement security with more halvings

>>14483636
>mfw the god protocol enables all 3

>>14485241
>and the community decided we don't want banks being the only nodes
Dude, what the hell do you think LN does?

Fees provide plenty of coin if you just fucking scale.

>>14485276
>id
>KEk

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

THIS IS A SIMULATION
LINK $1000 EOY

>>14485276
>>14485303
It's happening

>>14485303
kek wills it posting in eppic bread.

>>14485303
based

>>14485282
I guess I'm a bank now running my routing LN node

kek speaks through me

he has one final wish. do NOT sell your linkies now.
something is on the horizon...

>>14479144
So we can accumulate moar

>>14479144
Not everyone here hates Bitcoin. That's just persecution complex by neurotic Bitcoin bagholders. The criticisms about the outdated tech are 100% legit. That should not be conflated with "hate".

So far the Lightning Network has done nothing to help reduce the problem of unconfirmed transactions. LN was designed for micropayments, but no one's using it for micropayments (1 cent to 1 dollar transactions). They were "fixing" a problem that hadn't exist yet. People want transfer large amounts quickly and securely, not small amounts. What the fuck were these developers doing? Are they even in reality?
https://bitcoinvisuals.com/lightning

I own >0.5 BTC. I wish I had more and while I soon can buy larger quantities I am not sure if I could ever own so much as 1 BTC. How grateful or proud should I be?

>>14485276
>>14485303
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>14485351
The only way to solve the routing problem AND scale on LN is for there to only be a few massive hubs on the network. That's why it doesn't work and nobody uses it especially for any amount over a few bucks. Also it's going to require a money transmitter license once the regulators have caught up. Read the LN whitepaper, dude. They literally say at scale it will work the same as banking networks do today.

LNs entire purpose is to give banks a footing if not complete takeover of Bitcoin. Going with the latter since it also takes pretty much all transactions off chain which will bankrupt miners. Although they were going to bankrupt anyway in another halving or two with a cap on transaction volume.

>>14479144
This is a BSV board please discuss B*C on its appropriate board, which is reddit

>>14484899
If we had 32mb blocks as bch we would probably be at 800k tx per day now instead of 400k.

Problem is that by 2030 99% of btc will be mined and you need the fees and you need full blocks for that.

That's a serious risk i don't blame corecucks for playing it safe.

>>14485607
>you need full blocks for that
No you don't. You should strive to never have full blocks. 1.6 GB block mines 28 bsv in fees. That's more than the current block reward and far more than the next halving. The protocol works.

>>14485534
you're delusional
anyone can operate a node, open a channel, route, publicly or privately
all that FUD of preventing anyone from doing anything in bitcoin is ridiculous

giving up the ability to run a node is what compromises the system so raising the block size is a much bigger threat to the system

>>14485694
Yeah no. It falls under money transmitter. Regulation is slow.

Even if that wasn't the case it doesn't solve the routing problem. LN is pure subversion of Bitcoin.

>>14479144
BTC is like gold, but you dont pay with gold when you buy bread or milk in the shop

>>14485851
ok kid
keep fudding what you don't understand
there isn't a routing problem, you might not get the cheapest most efficient route every time but if there's a route with available liquidity it will go through

>>14485694
>anyone can operate a node, open a channel, route, publicly or privately
Yeah, just like anyone can start a brick-and-mortar business. Just like anyone can create a fork of Linux to create their own OS.

>all that FUD of preventing anyone from doing anything in bitcoin is ridiculous
How many nodes are there? Not many even after all these years (only 10k). The average person isn't going to run a node because it requires a lot resources, something only privileged people can afford. Raising the block size is only a problem because Bitcoin wasn't properly designed to begin with.

>>14485974
my raspiblitz node cost less than $100 in hardware and less than $5 a year to operate

>>14485910
>there isn't a routing problem
This is going nowhere. Enjoy your sinking ship. Full disclosure I still hold a large stack of BTC because in the short term it's still the king and is the backbone of shitcoin trading. Once actual adoption comes in and people are using Bitcoin (SV) for more than speculation then the money is going to start flowing out of exchanges and into actual use.

Also even if there wasn't adoption around the corner, BTC still dies in the long term for reasons I've already explained.

>>14486041
Not a full node.

>>14485534
>bankrupt miners
Transaction fees are only 10% compared to the block reward, if that was a problem every halvening would've bankrupt them already.

>>14486104
yes it is lol I have the entire bitcoin blockchain and lightning software running on it
you don't know what the fuck you're talking about
https://github.com/rootzoll/raspiblitz

>>14479144
I hate bitcoin because it is obviously fake money and a scam ponzi. If you do not think that is true, then ask yourself why people who hold bitcoin are so obsessed with getting other people to hold bitcoin? That is because without new money coming in, the entire house of cards collapses. This is why I will never touch such an obvious scam.

>>14486113
See>>14485685

>>14486136
That's not a node. Nodes find blocks. You might have heard of this before, they're also called miners.

>>14486136
>Its mainly targeted for learning how to run your own node decentralized from home. Discover & develop the growing ecosystem of the Lightning Network by becoming a part of it. Build it as part of a workshop or as a weekend project yourself.

It's only for learning purposes and for LN, not an actual full node. The requirements for running a real full node are much higher than what a a raspi could provide: https://bitcoin.org/en/full-node#minimum-requirements.. Nice try though.

>>14486261
I propagate blocks inside the consensus and reject faggots who try to mine 1.6GB blocks

>>14486226
Not relevant to my rebuttal of your point.

>>14486261
That's literally a node though, a "full node" even.

>>14486261
>That's not a node. Nodes find blocks.
It's not a requirement. It's a bonus if you can spare the computing power. But it's not required if you just use it as base for a LN node.

That's why we have different terms for "node" and "miner". Why are you so obtuse?

>>14486274
if I sync from scratch on a rasp it will take over a month but it will still work
again you do not know what you're talking about

>>14479144
Because they have less than 2 of them KEK.

>>14483814
>muh psychology

This feels nothing like the 2017 bull, top and drop. That parallel is retarded.

>>14486367
Fuck off, lying fucker. It's not a full node. It's Lightning Network node. Those two are completely different.

>>14486389
Do you honestly believe that. We literally went full parabolic. There was pure euphoria and then we hit a blow off top. Some people are still in denial, but it is clear people are worried and scared because they know its all about to crash.

>>14486421
it's a bitcoin full node idiot
what do you think a rasp can't download 1.3mb every 10 min?
what are these big requirements you're talking about

>>14486358
>That's why we have different terms for "node" and "miner"
Bitcoin "Miner" isn't in the whitepaper but node is. Congrats on being propagandized though, seriously.

>>14486497
It says right on the github page that's for LN, genius. If you can't tell the different, then you're just an idiot monkeying around.

>>14486497
I don't think the other anon understands that a raspberry pi is comparable with a shitty 2009 laptop, the hardware a bitcoin full node was meant to run on. (and still is)

>>14486595
what information do you think the lightning network software references?

>>14479144
they are just jealous that it's got too much popularity to fail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-gG3Oi6bTk

>>14479144
Nobody hates Bitcoin, they just want you to sell so they can buy more cheaper