/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>14476726
trezor is better

>>14476726
What happens when the battery dies in one of these?
What happens if the internal storage dies?

>>14476762
>what is a seed phrase

>>14476726
>using a glorified usb stick with backdoors
not going to make it

ledger is like pocket flip-flop knife
trezor is Kabar from Commando movie

>>14476774
If I'm to use a seed phrase any way, why not just create a few copies of a desktop wallet?

>>14476762
probably eeprom or flash will be fine

>>14476794
>what is verifying transactions with a secure hardware device

>>14476775
>he thinks the chip in his computer isn't backdoored

>>14476794
hardware wallets only make sense if you so large amount of transactions and want to make purely cyber attacks nearly impossible. in every other use case they are retarded/unnecesary

So most of you like the Trezor? I can concur with that because it's opensource and you can also use the Model T for storing passwords and as a F2A authentication tool. On the other hand the Ledger stores the private keys encrypted on a second chip which is more secure, I guess. If that feature isn't that vital, I'd go for the Trezor, though.

>>14476888
>On the other hand the Ledger stores the private keys encrypted on a second chip which is more secure
not really
its a tamper proof chip hardened against side channel attacks but not cryptographically secured you can only do yhat woth a strong password not a fucking pin

>>14476852
>don't keep your digital assets on a secure device that can't be accessed remotely!

>>14476932
no keep it in a secure and highly redundant manner for free

>>14476952
>t. poorfag

>>14476818
"for china"

>>14476959
sorry for not wasting money on useless trinkets that are a physical attack vector if used incorrectly (ie as recommended by the vendor)

>>14476726
im looking for ways to encrypt my seedphrase so that i can get it engraved on a ring or something

any ideas?

>>14477072
tolkiens elvish alphabet and cesar lol

Trezor is open source.
Ledger is not.

>>14477072
get an encrypted seedphrase tattoo on the inside of your ass cheeks. You'd have to use mirrors to read it, so it'd discourage you from selling too soon.

>>14477098
is there a python script for that cause i don't feel like learning a new language

>>14477132
ok but what can i use to encrypt it with a passphrase

>>14477121
yes and trezor can be side channeled ledger not
makes both subpar in my eyes

>>14477135
the best thing would be that you can decode by hand
but probably there are ready tools even js you can use offline

>>14476762
they're just an interface to access your wallet. That means although the seed phrases are 'generated' from the ledger, you can still access your wallet through MEW via the generated seed without the need for ledger

>>14477151
Side channel vulnerabilities are patched or not explotable.

>>14477072
only the first 4 characters are significant, so you only need to write out 96. you'll have to kill the jeweler that makes it though, unless you engrave it yourself.

>>14477172
yeh i wanted to do something like this

seed + password = random string that i can write down then decrypt by typing it into terminal with my password

i try using GPG but the encrypted output can't be typed in manually you need to decrypt the whole file.

>>14477279
T_T

>>14477132
Inside of his ass cheeks is probably more often in public view than his face.

>>14477202
>Side channel vulnerabilities are patched or not explotable
of course i'm sure they said that...
the way i see this is simple, my way of storing my coins would bankrupt a galactic empire to crack and would take eons even then.
hardware wallets are giving you 3 hour to a 1 day security and cracking them is around a few grands in cost.

so there are 2 very important rules to hardware wallets if you want to use them as cold store
1) never write down the seed in plain text and store it together! ever! at least group the words or use shamirs!
2) don't keep the private keys on it reset the device and create a decoy/spend wallet this way your damage is mitigated in case of evil maid (ie jamal)!

that simple... if you insist on buying these and using them best if you learn good practice.

okay i am getting scared.
what is the best way to store my crypto (especially btc)?
it is just sitting on exchanges right now. and it seems people dislike the hardware wallets. what other choices are there?

>>14477879
learn more also read >>14477834
you can use hardware wallets just don't be a retard and don't use them as the manufacturer and brainlets recommend.

you also don't actually need to spend money on them most likely it all depends on how you use crypto.

>>14477931
store btc and eth until next bullrun while having about 20 eth on idex to trade.

>>14477944
encrypted paper wallet, multiple copies at multiple locations (also electronic copies) cheap reliably securely redundant.

>>14477963
pic related if you can't post your private key on 4chan it's not secure.
and no nobody swiped it i sent it to coinbase then bitmex and now shorting btc with it

I have my keystore file inside a Veracrypt container or an encrypted USB stick and have several copies in different locations.

Meanwhile Trezor and Ledger fags have their literal seed phrase written down on a piece of paper inside their home waiting for the first nig to break in for KFC funds or CIA vanning squad to take his entire stack. Pathetic.

>>14477834
>>14477834
>of course i'm sure they said that...
>the way i see this is simple, my way of storing my coins would bankrupt a galactic empire to crack and would take eons even then.
It doesn't matter what they say. The software and hardware is open source, so you judge for yourself by looking at the code.
>hardware wallets are giving you 3 hour to a 1 day security and cracking them is around a few grands in cost.
Not sure what you mean by this. How can you brute force a 24 word seed in a day at a few grands cost?

>>14478025
You think a home burglar is going to know what a Bitcoin private key even is?

>>14478025
yeah that's not bad my only objection would be money cost + electronics decay as a possible losing a backup source also not taking advantage of scrypt key derivation. but yeah that's the idea.

you can have much better security at little to no cost. hence even tho they seem ancient even primitive and unwieldy i still recommend bip38 paper wallets at least as backup.

you can also store your pks in a password safe like keepass2 that uses argon2

>>14477986
wtf is that pic related? is there a tutorial?

>>14478048
>How can you brute force a 24 word seed in a day at a few grands cost?
no it's an attacks cost on the secure (or any) chip that bypasses any soft protection like pins and erasing.

>>14478098
>bip38 paper wallets
where are the btc send ? like wouldnt they need to be somewhere on an address? like metamask

>>14478084
idiot

>>14478101
there is... https://www.bitaddress.org/

>>14478098

Yeah but a USB stick's lifespan is determined by how many times its written. I literally bought fresh USBs and wrote only once - the initial veracrypt containers. Once a year I will probably wipe one and add a fresh one to the batch to keep it fresh even though you could easily get 10 years out of a heavily used USB stick anyway.

>>14478148
i have several usbs that i use anyhow as backups too of course. still i kinda like the inert nature of paper wallets. i even dipped them in wax to protect from silverfish or rot or getting wet. they feel more like plastic now than paper.

The software on these is shocking. Just use VeraCrypt to make a file holding your phrase and wallet file. Copy paste a few times in different locations. Burn to a £5 archive quality bluray. You're sorted. You really don't need anything more than a few backups to keep wallets safe. These things can fail - my first experience of a Ledger was having to recover a customer's seed because his main was fucked itself and showed all balances as zero, and was unable to update.

>>14476774
>>14476852
>>14477195

So say i get trezor, i set it up,
I want to verify my seed works, because im paranoid and try to be chad spmetimes
To verify my seed i have to go online with it
But i dont ever want my trezor seed to see internet..rinse and repeat forever?
Get what im saying?

>>14478125
>wouldnt they need to be somewhere on an address?
yeah the address is also on the paper wallet
which is a privacy concern if you want to store your pks in cloud storage or publish them.

>>14478230
U seem to be smart , please refer to
>>14478284

your seed is just the entropy for standard hierarchic deterministic wallet generation.
it will never leave the device in the computers direction (assuming there is no exploit and everything works as claimed)

>>14478284
>To verify my seed i have to go online with it
what makes you think that?

>>14478286
but where are the 0101 stored ??? are the btc just deleted from existence until you enter your code somewhere and they pop into existence again

>>14478334
Im not smart
Can u spell it in crayola for an anon

>>14476726
Trezor because of the price lock feature..

>>14478284
1 create wallet with electrum or whatever on your pc
2 download electrum or whatever to usb
3 install on an offline computer with a fresh OS
4 click restore wallet and put the seed you got from the first wallet

the programs compute addresses with your special words and the power of MATHS to give you your address you dont need to connect to the blockchain or the internet

Nothing is completely 100% safe. If you store your private keys in an encrypted file or drive, if the computer you are using is compromised then so are your private keys. Even if you use an airgapped computer you could use a cold boot attack against veracrypt. Hardware wallets have a good balance between security and usability.

>>14478120
Ok, so where's the proof of this?

>>14478330
I bought trezor 1 so its clear..
So i can verify the seed on the device itself, while powering it from computers usb or walljack id guess?

>>14478357
the btc is always on the blockchain (if anywhere)

>>14478405
just try those steps i said if you dont already understand
you'll wrap your head around it

>>14478435
1 - download electrum or whatever to usb
2 - install on an offline computer
3 - click restore wallet and put the seed from your trezor

>>14478486
you will need to connect to internet to update the balance but you will see a list of addresses, xpubkey, etc etc that you can use on your online pc to verify

>>14478419
http://www.break-ic.com/topics/crack-ic.asp
read this to get a feel for what it takes to get ripped off if you don't follow my 2 simple rules that don't cost you anything!

here is how it's gonna go, you lose the device or get a break-in. in the near future if these will be adopted: jamal knows the fence gives him $100 for these things (may also toss the place for seeds), the fence knows just the guy that has the equipment for this kind of job the dude invested a few grand into his private lab has all the gear to crack thousands of these for a cut.

if you get home, had a backup they didn't found and just in time spend your btc they go nothing, but do you want to risk that? what if you notice it too late? all your fortune all your savings gone...

just do as i said: >>14477834
if you want to track your btc (because it gives you pleasure to see the value grow) use a watch only wallet that only has the addresses.

>>14478539
Nice story, but there are literally no instances of this ever happening. Your private keys are encrypted on a Trezor, so how exactly is Jamal's friend going to crack it? If you try to brute force it, it will wipe itself.

>>14478539
an other good practice is the following: use hardware wallets as multisig with traditional software wallet. software wallets cryptographically secure the wallet file (use strong password or a passphrase of at least 5-8 words) which means a simple break-in can not possibly compromise your crypto.

there is of course still the fact that you have to make sure backups are available.

>>14478674
>there are literally no instances of this ever happening.
it can easily happen as demonstrated we got the tech we got the motivation all it requires is opportunity.

what's not on the device can not be compromised. think billions trillions quadrillion years not a few hours!

>>14478674
>Your private keys are encrypted on a Trezor
you can only encrypt anything with strong enough password that is not stored on the device. these things are unlocked with pins. which means at best a few hours to crack it, at worst it's a soft protection.

>>14478752
>these things are unlocked with pins. which means at best a few hours to crack it
oh geez you haven't even bothered doing any research and are clearly just talking out of your ass

>>14478486
>>14478513

Think my head is wrapped for the most part. Thanks anon, hope u make it.

Gonna go pick my trezor up today

>>14478786
you are telling me you enter a 20+ character password to unlock your hardware wallet? last i checked 4-6 digit pins.

>>14478802

>>14478730
Yes you're right, eventually all encryption will be cracked. But by the same logic, there's no point buying Bitcoin today either because it too will be cracked in a few thousand/million years.
>>14478752
Again, you can't brute force the PIN.

>>14478831
https://yandex.com/search/?text=what%20is%20bip39&lr=10145&clid=1836587

>>14478539
>making shit up

>>14478752
you can use passwords w/ trezor and every password is its own hidden wallet, read their wiki i'm being lazy with my explanation

however, it is true and trezor even tells you this on their very own wiki if you look at their history of vulnerabilities that if someone steals your device it is possible (although still ridiculously unlikely given the needed skills/equipment) for your funds to be stolen.

>>14478866
a few hundred quintillion years more likely as it stands. but i would assume anyone sane would be glad with a few hundred years of security for his wealth. rest is just insurance against unpredictable technological leaps.
>Again, you can't brute force the PIN.
sure you can. that's the point of the physical attack. that is why i'm saying that anything aside from real hard cryptographic security is snake oil security.

>>14478919
Explain how to brute force a Trezor PIN. In detail.

>>14478911
not to mention they would have to do that faster than you realizing your trezor is gone and restoring your wallet and moving funds

>>14478911
also, you cant brute force the pin easily ; after 10 attempts or so it wipes the device. obviously, you can still break in but it is more technical than simply spamming the pin with all possible combinations

>>14478940

>>14478911
not for the pin the extra word is for decoy wallet scheme.
> if you look at their history of vulnerabilities that if someone steals your device it is possible (although still ridiculously unlikely given the needed skills/equipment) for your funds to be stolen
not so hard as they make it out to be imo. nobody bothers yet but when there will be thousands of these with millions on them... (of which we are all hoping for)

as opposed to ruining a galactic empire and taking longer than how long the universe existed for FREE and also you can have unlimited copies for FREE as backup against theft and catastrophe.

have redundancy! secure redundancy! that's very important.

and this is mainly why i get real annoyed when people say hardware wallets are good for cold storage. no they are horrible. you can use them sure, but why? the security will not depend on the device if you are doing it right.

>>14478954
dude... read the fucking article! there is no soft protection if they dismantle the device and read the content of the memory. forget it! snake oil security. protects against your kids and grandma maybe.

>>14478437
thanks

>>14478940
>>14478959
http://www.break-ic.com/topics/crack-ic.asp
read the fucking article brainlets!

>>14478982
>nobody bothers yet but when there will be thousands of these with millions on them...

just to be clear I don't disagree with you in the slightest ; eventually people will learn these skills because the potential reward is extremely high. the more likely outcome is jamal is going to break your legs if you don't give him your bytecorns NUGGA

>>14479012
>there is no soft protection if they dismantle the device and read the content of the memory.

I understand this and think you're overestimating the number of people that understand how to do this
see
>>14479052

>>14479052
that is why you should always have a decoy wallet on them preferably one that you use (otherwise why the fuck do you have an expensive gadget that can fail you)

>>14478982
the extra word can be 98321welkjfhdsv0329u8df and be your real wallet and is not stored on the device

please stop it hurts

>>14479076
read >>14478539
it's hard and if there is money in it... do you know the technical expertise and cost of equipment for high.end car thieves? you only need fractions of that.

i recommend you strongly to see your enemy not as a clueless nigger but as someone that controls all resources on planet earth.

to take my btc from a paper wallet like >>14477986 would take so much longer than how long the universe exists that it would break your mind trying to imagine it with the entire computing power available in the future of mankind.

>>14479120
for the record im not saying they're impossible to hack, infact there is plenty of evidence that they are. just not in the ways you claim because unlike you i have researched about hardware wallets before purchasing one and understand its limits

>>14478982
This is the uninformed cope of someone trying to justify to themselves why they haven't spent money on a hardware wallet yet.

Hardware wallets use the same cryptography as software wallets, and with the 25th seed being of unlimited size there is no upper bound on encryption strength.

A software wallet, no matter how well encrypted, is only as strong as its weakest link, which is the hardware you use to access it. A seven hundred sextillion bit key doesn't mean jack shit if your computer keylogs you or swaps out a malicious send address when you go to sign a transaction.

The only way to truly secure a key is to give it a strong private key AND spend it in a secure manner that minimizes attack surface. Properly used, hardware wallets give you both of these. Software wallets only give you the first one, you need to use an air gapped signing computer to ensure the second. And if you use an air gap second comp--congratulations, you just built yourself a makeshift hardware wallet.

>>14479120
dude... your seed and the password that protects the pks is 2 different things.

>>14479145

>>14479081
true and i agree but jamal is probably still going to break your legs because hes a savage ape with a genetic predisposition to violent behavior

full disclosure i have a hardware wallet and its well hidden, i only expect it (or hope it will, part of me thinks these things are a magnet for attempted theft) to keep my funds safe from online attack and i more or less think that in the case of a physical break in/attack/robbery/whatever you're more or less fucked no matter what. you can do things that are good practice against physical threats and do things that are stupid, in the end just own a gun.

>>14479177
how is the pk any use if you haven't told it the last word?

>>14479176
jesus christ you are mixing some shit up nicely.
your 25th word for seed is basically a password that protects your seed phrase as you don't write it down. it does not add to the security off the device, it allows you easy use of decoy wallet (the one with only the seeds).

>>14479046
That doesn't explain anything.

>>14479230
just fucking read about deterministic hierarchic wallet generation... maybe you won't mix everything up so bad.

>>14479289
it explains how even a secure chips content can be easily read and after the content is read your only protection is the cryptographic strength of the encryption key (if there is any)

now if you only have a decoy wallet with the 24 words on the device not the 24 + 1 your cold store is reasonably secure (as secure as string your password) if you have the 25 word wallet on it they you are fucked.

>>14479272
>>14479301
oh nice holy shit i just read
so with my 12 seed phrase you can access my wallet without me even telling you the 13th word

holy fuck i have been lied to

>>14477195
Then what is the point of the ledger? Why dont I just delete my MEWconnect along with my private keys and simply hide my seeds the same way I would hide my ledger seeds?

>>14479046
Yes, if your high-resources adversary gets access to your hardware you are in a world of shit. This is universally true. If the enemy can touch your machine, you've basically lost.

Do you really believe that your software wallet or paper wallet is safe if a high-resource adversary can touch the PC you use to build and sign the transaction? You think it's somehow impossible for them to scrape the key out of RAM or swap in their own address? Even if they don't physically access it, how certain are you that no malware is active when you spend? Do you make a habit of checking the contents of RAM with an electron microscope before signing a transaction?

Hardware wallets are not perfect but for almost all situations they minimize attack surface and beat the hell out of the alternatives.

>>14477132
You call that safe? I have mine split to 12 different locations across two countries and 3 mediums (paper, usb and rocks). My usb is encrypted with decryption key written on two parts on three different papers. For other papers some of them have parts of my private key written in code I invented and only I understand hopefully, others just have key written in plain text. Good luck guessing which one is which, and in which order they go. For my parts number 7 and 9 i use rocks (plain rocks) on 2 different physical locations. Number of rocks, as well as their shape, color and weight combined with a mnemonic I created based on my second pet's name when I was a child tell me the exact private key part. What If I lose one/some parts, you ask? I have the same thing in a different country, but the code is all different, I'm not stupid lol. Any suggestions how to further increase security? My exgf found one of my papers in my closet when she suspected I was cheating on her for being on my phone all the time (I was checking crypto prices) so I had to dump her and do the whole thing from scratch again because I couldn't deal with such security risk.

>>14479339
>now if you only have a decoy wallet with the 24 words on the device
lord give me strength

what does the open source paper wallet recovery seed use? BIP39?

are the 2042 words standard for all seed recovery?

>>14479367
> If the enemy can touch your machine, you've basically lost.
you can take my laptop the entire thing is truyecrypted then the wallet on it is also encrypted with a strong password stored in a key safe that is also encrypted on the encrypted harddrive and that's my spend wallet...

now this all doesn't protect against malware that well but perfectly against theft. hardware wallets are weak against theft (unless used properly) and strong against malware/hacks.

which is why i recommend multisig.

>>14479445
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Seed_phrase

2048^12 = 2^132

>>14479466
That makes sound sense.

>>14479404
there is to possibilities nigga
>1 you can transact with your pin
in this case what you are saying is bullshit
>2 you have to enter your password and your pin every time you transact
in this case it's possible that i did not know something about how these work and need to look after this specifically.

>>14479510
you think it would be difficult to save for session and purge memory when device is disconnected?

>>14479466
>which is why i recommend multisig.

out of any curiosity are there any software wallets that let you use yubikeys?

>>14479510
Since you seem like you know the most here

A tldr of your advice
Make sure my ledger 24 word seed is physically backed up in separate locations. Make sure any digital backup is both encrypted and airgapped upon creation and any time it is accessed.

Reset my ledger so as to prevent a simple PIN hack gaining access to my funds

Only use my spending wallet via my ledger. Let the cold wallet reside only on ETH/BTC chains , requiring the full 24 word seed to access

Did I miss anything based security anon

>>14479272
25th seed word (passphrase) generates an entirely different BIP32 seed. Coins that are stored there cannot be accessed without knowledge of both 24 words and the passphrase. Used prudently, a hardware wallet does not risk exposing your key unless the attacker
1) steals device
2) cracks device and reads 24
3) somehow gets 25th passphrase from you
4) does all of this without you moving the coins first

This is extremely safe against most attacks short of a wrench attack. How is a software wallet better?

>>14479510
This is a difference between Trezor and Ledger.

Ledger stores FULL (25 part) derived key in it's smart card memory.

Trezor stores 24-part key and asks for passphrase every time.

This is why I use Trezor and consider it safer.

>>14479689
yes exactly what i said have a different cold store wallet than spend wallet and never keep your cold store wallet on the device!

>>14476726
Can someone explain how hardware ID wallets prevent other people from accessing my address and taking all my crypto?

How exactly does the hardware wallet get a monopoly on an address? Why can't anyone else who knows that address just go to it and take all the crypto there, or why can't people just randomly type in addresses until they get lucky and find my address and steal my crypto?

>>14479741
>Trezor stores 24-part key and asks for passphrase every time.
crap i did not know that, in this case your security is the 3h to 1d plus the strength of your passphrase. which can be quiet good if you get 20+ char.

>>14479741
The devs behind Ledger are dismissive of the passphrase, and do not seem to value it the way Trezor devs do. They had to be asked repeatedly by customers to implement it, and their implementation sucks. Their opinion seems to be that their smart card is impenetrable so the passphrase isn't necessary, and decoys do not work.

>>14479820
altho this begs the question what's the point of the pin then if you got a strong password? or the pin is just for the spend wallet?

>>14479782
>>14479820
Ok we are on the same page. I keep my ultra-safe holdings on cold wallets, and my hot wallet is a Trezor with a huge passphrase. I sleep soundly at night.

>>14479860
Arguably no point. But having one makes the null-passphrase decoy wallet look more legit.

>>14479902
yes is this actually in line with my recommendations of not being a complete moron but it still lacks the high secure redundancy in backups. which is my primary reason for recommending paper wallets because there is no limit to your redundancy. (i do get tired and bored cutting the paper wallets out so there is some limit)

if you write down your seed and store it at multiple locations you are decreasing your security. same with unencrypted paper wallets which are even more retarded.

if you store your encrypted paper wallets at multiple locations you are increasing durability against disaster without compromising your security. (same is true for electronic copies in encrypted containers obv.)

>>14480008
Sure, but nothing stops one from encrypting the seed words in some manner and then making copies of that. There's no requirement for hardware wallet backups to be cleartext.

>>14480068
yes and or use shamirs 2 off 3 or 3 of 5 key sharing scheme even. which makes it increasingly difficult to get your seed as the attacker would need to get multiple copies at once before you detect intrusion and spend. while giving you redundancy also against loss of a location.

>>14479081
>that is why you should always have a decoy wallet on them preferably one that you use (otherwise why the fuck do you have an expensive gadget that can fail you)

Appreciate this suggestion. An anon in a previous thread suggested this and I am in the process of eliminating it.

I really hope you all listen to this anon. I use hw wallets myself, but problem is that if someone gets access to the device, they do NOT need the pin. They can electronmicroscope or whatever the device to get the data out.

So,
1. set up wallet, put 90% of stack on there, secure the passphrase, and then WIPE the wallet.
2. Set up wallet with NEW account. Put, say 10% of stack on there. This is now your decoy wallet. Scumbag comes in your house and threatens you, or steals the wallet? Well, it sucks, but 90% of your stack is still protected.

>>14480185
to be clear why i mention shamir is you probably don't want your crypto to be lost when you die.

if you have good cryptographic security the day you die all your data is gone.

>>14480216
apparently trezor can do this for you in a much more friendly manner

>>14476774
If you write down the seed phrase it almost completely defeats the purpose of one of these

>>14480670
you can use grouping (separate secure locations) or shamirs (even better)

>>14480791
Saving pic.

You have any easy to digest pic of a Shamir setup?

>>14480791
Also apologies for being asked to be spoonfed

But is there a resource to generate groups like the pic you posted but for more than 2/3 needed
Like 3/5
Or 4/7

So far, thanks for the replies. I'm now prone to acquire a Trezor.

outstanding thread, thanks to all contributors!

>>14480865
you can try it out online and download the source
https://iancoleman.io/shamir/
https://github.com/iancoleman/shamir

there is also shamir-39

>>14480931
https://iancoleman.io/shamir39/
you can maybe try this out with seed words i'm not 100% if the dictionary is the same but i hope so.

>>14480931
i think 3/5 is not bad, enough security enough redundancy for a private person.

>>14476726
>Which one?
are you fucking dumb? why wasting money on a glorified usb stick?

>>14476807
this.

>back doored by the way

>>14481969
Stop memeing around. Those hardware wallets make handling cryptos a lot easier.

>>14476888
>F2A authentication tool
*U2F authentification tool

>>14476762

you buy a new one and import your secret key and recover your funds

>>14480791
Pretty sure you are the anon from the other thread.

Learned a lot from you and I hope people listen. Was real eye-opener to learn about those electron scanning assholes that can scan the fuck out of a hardware wallet.

You were the one that made me understand that main thing is to secure the SEED PHRASE and do NOT keep it live on any device.

Much appreciated. Also for tips on sharing in groups. Giving one set to my brother and one set to my dad so that if I’m hospitalized or whatever they can get access.

Also definitely implementing decoy wallet idea. Need to look more closely at Trevor solution. Have one now but have just started using it.

Appreciate your time but if you have a moment to explain how Trevor decoy works better than ledger decoy, I’d be grateful for your input.

>>14476762
>battery dies
lmao

>>14482749
>Trevor
Doh. Trezor. Fucking autocorrect.

>>14482749
>You were the one that made me understand that main thing is to secure the SEED PHRASE and do NOT keep it live on any device.
do you even read the fucking manual of things you buy?

>>14482749
>Appreciate your time but if you have a moment to explain how Trevor decoy works better than ledger decoy, I’d be grateful for your input.
oh i see whats happening here

>>14482749
it's just a matter of convenience, you get more security if you install a completely different decoy wallet with different seed but if you use a secure passphrase hard enough to crack then practically not by much.

i dislike ledger for multiple reasons the only thing it has going for it is it looks better.