/biz/ - Business & Finance

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

how do you give someone power to ensure people get what they deserve without them abusing said power? with total power comes total corruption

Socialism is the sin of covetousness.

>>14311736

>wanting a basic living for your family is a greater sin than having billions of dollars

>>14311736

People often write off socialists because they're "covetous" and "jealous". But isn't coveting and jealousy what keeps our economy going? You see your neighbor with a nice car and you want a nicer car. If anything it's the people who participate in this system who embody the worst elements of jealousy and covetousness.

>>14311695
>he thinks rich people doesnt work basically 24/7 prioritizing work over everything else

>>14311695
Nobody on /biz/ will argue capitalism is a meritocracy. You don't work to be born into the right family. You don't work to fuck around in public high school like an uberbrainlet so hard you need mommy and daddy to bribe a university because you're a brainlet.

Capitalism simply has the greatest POSSIBILITY for meritocracy of every other system.

Because it would literally kill them to admit outloud they got where they are by mostly luck and little bit of disgusting morals. For every fund manager in the last 40 years that "made it" by actually studying up, using math to better value the market, and actually creating something new that benefits people there are 2,000 managers that just got lucky to have enough money to blindly stick their money in anything and make it from pure luck and a maybe a decent employee.

>>14311695
Everything is a struggle, everything is fair in love and war. Existence is essentially a biological war to continue to have kids.
What someone deserves is subjective. If there's a great sleeze, he's technically better at his trade than someone who's working.
All power is attributed to people because people believe that the subject has that power, for one reason or another.

Merit is ever so subjective.
>>14311793
Ironically capitalism drives innovation because of this. Socialism promotes stagnation

>>14311793
Pick your poison - have social outcomes determined by business skill and luck, or have them determined by political skill and luck.
I would argue that business is usually moderately evil, while politics is invariably top shelf ultra-evil

>See? Under capitalism people can GET AHEAD based on LUCK AND CONNECTIONS!! So unfair!
>But under communism, nobody can get ahead. This is better.

>>14311695
life is very complex and totally fucked up. capitalism is a mere name we give to roughly describe a "thing".

the point of deserving is strange. there's people wanting things but they do not know how to get them or what to do to get them. there's a huge amount of people who can be compared to badly programmed bots. the amount of randomness in this world is staggering.

>>14311908

Yes. Nobody needs to "get ahead" of their fellow man. It's time to abandon that sort of poisonous thinkig.

>>14311695
Nobody believes 'hard work' makes you money.

Having something scarce that's in demand is what makes you money.

I can work hard smashing rocks in two all I like but nobody's gonna pay me because literally any retard with hands can do it.

>>14311695

>Rich people striking a deal that took years of education and networking experience to make.

>Poor people doing something a literal trained monkey could do.

>>14311957

Sounds like something someone who can't compete would say lmao.

>>14311957
>NOBODY SHOULD GET AHEAD
>Commissar puts a gun to the back of your head
>"No talking allowed during work hours, comrade"

>>14311957
Lmao retarded menial worker thinking he's entitled to stuff because he can move his arms
Congrats on being able to do something anyone else can do

>>14311994

You're right we don't want to "compete". Humanity has absolutely nothing to show for its "competing". Literally every invention of meaning was created by altruists and intellectuals (often funded by governments). Not capitalism.

what makes you think we live under a capitalist system?

>>14311695
Why wont billionaires pay to kill all the niggers? Seriously

>>14311695
The first issue with your picture is that you are putting white people as lazy and brown people as hard workers.

In reality, white people produce everythign but then it is taxed and redistributed to all the niggers and kikes. White people face taxation of well over 50%.

50% that is just the income tax. Then there is sales tax, real esate tax, gasoline tax, etc. All this income is then redistributed to the brown races so that they can come to our countries to exterminate us.

This is why its better to not participate in the economy. Conduct your business outside the traditional financial system. Because otherwise the Jews and Niggers will take it all leaving nothing for you and your family.

the problem with communism is the carrot and stick dilema.
under communism theres only the stick.

>>14312067
>In reality, white people produce everythign but then it is taxed and redistributed to all the niggers and kikes. White people face taxation of well over 50%.

Lol. I doubt you can even still find whites in factories or fields nowadays.

>>14312067

>white people "produce" it and collect the profits while chinks overseas and illegal mexican laborers do all the physical work and underpaid white beta males work in r&d departments.

>>14311964
hard work doesnt mean physically hard work lmao, it means advanced work. and yes it will get you rich

>>14312072
Not really true, when nobody is working for money you can be just as motivated by rewards like moving up in the party hierarchy. The problem is that with capitalism, usually to be rewarded you have to do something someone is actually willing to pay you for. With communism, you can be rewarded to some extent for doing your job, but let's be real, the way to really move up in life is to master bootlicking and backstabbing

>>14311762
>having kids when you can't afford diapers

>>14312095
Good idea, we shouldn't need to pay them at all
We just need to breed some intelligent chimpanzees and we can reduce our expenses on labor to food and water!

If we lived in a true "meritocracy" all positions in society would be determined by test scores that anyone could take at any time. This guy would probably be your boss. Uh-oh can't have that.

>>14312101
> hard work doesnt mean physically hard work lmao, it means advanced work. and yes it will get you rich

When people talk about 'hard work' they usually mean toiling for long hours.

Doesn't really matter who's right or wrong to me, as long as I can keep making fun of salty poorfags

>>14312141
So what you're saying is that there's a significant amount of incel cope here
Good thing that the uncharismatic get pushed by the wayside

>>14312028

Yeah not like the fastest runners run the fastest because they want to run faster than the other runners. Or that scientists are in general just as petty as everyone else and work harder because they want to upstage their colleagues.

But w/e man, enjoy your dissonant worldview in your room or on a soapbox I don't care. The rest of us will keep this pos afloat.

>>14312095
>chinks overseas and illegal mexican laborers do all the physical work and underpaid white beta males work in r&d departments
What's the meaning of "physical work", do you think it's worth more? It's actually worthless, because if there wasn't anybody to do it, you could just plan around it.

Example, in agriculture, with scarce physical labor, you could just plan some fruit and nut trees that take care of themselves. Let the animals run free in large fields feeding fertilizing al by themselves.

In today's world with robots and stuff there are even more options to deal with lack of physical labor.

>>14312150
>son, go out to the field and pick up potatoes for 14 hours per day and you will be rich! work hard is all you need!

said no father in this century ever

>>14312200
You have no idea what you're talking about. Good luck obtaining the smartphone or PC you used to write that post without third world labor.

>meritocracy when there's no oversight or regulations?
>implying the overseer will not use their position to become wealthy
commies are always lazy losers that live with their parents

We live in a society where everyone decides how much everyone else is worth by paying them whatever he or she thinks their services are worth. If they decide to work for that pay so be it, but what you actually want is to dictate others what to think and how to behave because you feel unacknowledged (because let's be real: you are a loser who has never amounted to anything. you are worth shit. that's why you cry.) I don't care what some athlete makes. It's not my money and thus not for me to decide. Only envious losers cry about other people making more than them. Unironically kill yourself.

>>14312236
Sorry we're supposed to feel sympathetic to them, why?

>>14312236
All kinds of goods were available before corps starting using 3rd world labor. Some 1st world countries like Germany, Korea, and Japan have a lot of industrial production. 3rd world is obviously not necessary.

Products would be available for more or less the same prices. Corps would just plan around it with more emphasis on production.

In any case, I don't value smartphones or PCs that much. One way to keep the niggers and kikes out of white neighbourhoods would be to ban those things. If I had to give up smartphones, PCs, and cars to live in all white society, I would do it without hesitation.

>>14312327

>>14312387
>Reply

>>14312327
Based. All leftists are driven by low self-esteem. Every time I've gotten a commie to open up about their personal life/feelings it has always been nothing but an outpouring of insecurity and self-loathing.
Leftism is unironically untreated mental illness encouraged by society and tolerated by parents who don't know any better and fail to do their duty.

>>14312249
>communism
>strong family structure and values
what exactly is it that you see is the problem here?

>>14312408

Fucking this. Capitalismisbadtards have no idea what history was like, and consequently have no idea what people are really like.

>>14312425
>hurrr everyone is just one big family
it breaks once you include two families dumbass

>>14312408

>Prior to capitalism

According to capitalist apologists, cavemen were practicing capitalism.

>>14312510
That quote could unironically be applied to feudalism, though, and it would be just as true.

>>14312542
>what is feudalism

>>14311695
Have a system where labor is recorded and reward workers based on throughput. That's true meritocrasy

>>14311957
Lol fuck you disgusting commie

>>14312645
But what about the intangibles? The artisanship? Long processes? How do you reward anything but the sheer material output through that system?

>>14312607
>become wealthy by serving your fellow man.
>feudalism

>>14312542
>According to capitalist apologists, cavemen were practicing capitalism.
All human societies, even the most primitive ones engage in trade of some sort or another. That's capitalism, isn't it?

What would be the alternative? If you were a caveman and saw something you liked would you take it by force? Because?

>>14311847
>Because it would literally kill them to admit outloud they got where they are by mostly luck and little bit of disgusting morals.
imagine being this big of a delusional brainwashed failure in life to think that nonsense like this is true. 100% hopeless dumbfuck

>>14312699
Wrong. Trading the things yourself made and exploitation of labor are two different things. Capitalism is an entirely modern phenomenon.

>>14312678
>artisanship
>long processes
>materials

It'll be recorded and displayed in said record. The only problem I see with it is hackers replacing original videos with tampered ones and corrupt corporates hacking their own systems for nepotism.

>>14312729
>exploitation
yeah, that doesn't exist in capitalism. all exchanges happen voluntary and are done only when both parties believe to profit / benefit from that trade. like selling your time so you don't starve. do you see where the benefit lies for the working party? do you?

why is it the only thing leftists showcase when they criticise capitalism is ignorance of it's workings and envy?

why do I even care?

>>14312028
>posting from his iphone

>>14312791
>all exchanges happen voluntary
>like selling your time so you don't starve

There's nothing voluntary about that. Nobody is gonna starve rather than be exploited.

>>14312729
>Capitalism is an entirely modern phenomenon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_talents_or_minas

nigga please capitalism has been around forever

>>14312834
do you not know what voluntary means? you are free to choose differently. just because the the possible outcome isn't what you want doesn't mean it isn't a choice. grow up, nobody owes you crap.

>>14312645
what if the company is losing money for their first years, like most businesses? Should the employees pay the company to work there?

>>14312729
If you think they're being exploited and that that is wrong, why are you not for ending the exploitation?

If you want to stop the exploitation of 3rd world labor why not support returning illegal immigrants to their home countries? Once they are returned white people can do the work themselves, and wages will certainly rise, and nobody will be exploited.

Tariffs could be imposed on the importation of sweat-shop produced goods. All the production would return, with the white people now doing the work and enjoying the fruits of their own labor.

But leftists are usually against these things. They call it exploitation but they don't actually want it to stop.

>>14312782
So there's already that failing, how would videos be a better system of recording labor? Why would anyone care enough to watch those videos? Sounds like it's easier to just have contracts and pay people what they agree to be paid

>>14312834
also without being offered the choice you are guaranteed to starve! so much for exploitation: in this hypothetical scenario the person offering you a chance to save your live is evil for doing so according to you.

>>14312123
>Never have kids so the white race dies
See how this destroys your narrative you Nazi?

>>14312888
Liberals aren't leftists. Liberals are capitalists that are socially left and financially super right.

>>14312885
It's an illusion of choice. No different from choosing between death and serfdom.

>>14312888
Modern day production is too dependent on international trade for tariffs to be viable anymore. It's just a pipe dream.

>>14312942
nobody owes you crap and without someone offering you the job you are sure to starve. it is a choice and you are a fuck head for calling the person saving your life evil. grow up.

>>14312697
The land that prospers has the richest king.

>>14312942
>dependent on international trade
It's funny how brainwashed the commie is by his capitalist overlords. notice how quickly mexico started seizing migrant vans once trump enacted tarriffs?
the world won't end if we don't get avocados for $1.00 instead of $1.25

The end goal of fascism is to reduce the amount of people on the planet to only the worthy and save the planet by reducing the amount of people taking up significant levels of precious resources to levels where it would not matter.
The goal of communism is to tell you that African spearchuckers are your proletariat equal and we should get them in cars polluting the earth so they can drive from 9-5 make-work jobs and shoot each other. Capitalism is the stop-gap that will eventually cleanse the Earth of the most excessive of people, while fascism follows.
If communists were given any real influence, they would accelerate global ecological collapse.
Slaves must be prevented from access to non-renewable and polluting resources as much as possible.

>>14313016
I guarantee you the computer or smartphone you wrote that post with was made in China.

>>14313075
>americans are incapable of making phones
no, they'll just cost a little more

>>14312892
Videos are exponentially more difficult than say tickets to corrupt. Contracts are no meritocracy and that's what the thread is about. Contracts do not ensure the people doing the actual work are compensated accordingly. I'm not talking the hard work meme but work that makes money.

>>14311695
Look I know everyone wants to shit on the higher ups but we all know that’s not how it works. Low-skill jobs have to consistently maintain a certain level of work because their jobs are menial and they are easily-replaceable. High skill jobs have times of high-stress and high stakes but also inevitably have their downtime.

Of course that’s just high end jobs and not the trust funders that literally do nothing because their name is on the company

fuck off and go suck your own gay dick you faggot retard lmfao

>>14312327
>where everyone decides how much everyone else is worth by paying them whatever he or she thinks their services are worth
Capitalism exploits people to the point that they will accept shit jobs for shit pay.

>>14313102
I guess Americans are also gonna mine the minerals needed for the screen of their phones which are mainly found in China or Africa or Latin America? Enjoy your $10k smartphones lol.

>>14312699
>He thinks trading and markets are capitalism
lmao

Thought Slime successfully dismantles capitalism in each video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHWAi_xCA_s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc51tvRl8zw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl_Ew0c4T9g

>>14311957
Bucket of crabs

>>14313183
I mean why not just grow food and sustain yourself that way? Nothing is voluntary, faggot

No need for regulation when you have LTO, LTO Network is going to change things.

>>14312791
Found the retarded ancap. The neoclassical econ 101 assumptions do not translate well into real life.

>>14313075
China and the EU have (or had, lel) way higher tariffs on products made in the US for fucking decades you stupid faggot cunt fuck off you dunning-kruger moron lmfao

Short answer: because you can't do a revolution in the modern world.
Welcome to feudalism 2.0, don't forget to register your user name.

>advocate taxing the balls off of your own country's companies to insolvency because they need to pay "muh fair share"
>reject taxing the balls off of other country's companies or companies that outsource through the application of tariffs on voluntarily purchased goods because "muh prices will go up (as if they fucking wouldn't when raising taxes on the former you stupid cocksucking dicknigger idiot retard faggot)"

HOLY FUCK

>>14313224
What the fuck do Americans even export anyway besides McDonald's? Why do you care about tariffs, your country is just a parasite nowadays lol

>>14313163
>what is oil?

It's neoliberalism and post-democracy, now moving on to a new feudal order with the aid of UN powers, migration and climate change as vehicles for change, and leftists and Islamists as useful idiots. The same people who run the show, profited off all of the wealth imbalances and monetary measures, are going to ask for more power to abolish the form of capitalism they developed and used to ruin it for anyone but the top few.

>>14313361
Neoliberalism is easily the most toxic ideology that humanity ever concocted.

>>14313163
>what is trade
>>14313314
America used to be the world's largest exporter but it transitioned to a service based economy which is retarded. America should have never outsourced their shit to pajeets and chinks.

Chinks get out designs for smart phones, software and cars, copy them and then sell their copies to their own people for much cheaper so there's no incentive for the chinks to use american services. In exchange, America gets some fucking cheap plastic chinese goods lmao.

Nat Soc is and has always been the answer. Every other system is gay

>>14313314
>your country is a parasite
>says the euroFAGGOT exploiting the best market conditions in human history made possible exclusively through US military hegemony
>able to dump legacy pharmaceuticals into the U.S. at astronomical prices for years while selling into the EU at unsustainable prices they wouldn't even break even with because of our corrupt KIKE politicians

Fuck off you disgusting hypocrite babydick cunt idiot retard lmfao

>>14313561
>Nat Soc is and has always been the answer. Every other system is gay
This

>>14311695
It's not a meritocracy. Not even with oversight and regulation. Overseers and regulators do not provide a meritocracy, they only secure power and display authority.

Capitalism is simply a means of rewarding efficiency. If your labor is efficient enough to pay for several generations, then your children and grand children will be rewarded for your labor. Is that fair? It doesn't matter.

Under communism, fascism or whatever ism that tries to remedy this, they always end up with favoratism, cronyism, nepatism, etc. The bureaucracy in charge always leverages their power to extend their authority.

For example, the Russians loved Trotsky and hated Stalin, except the bureaucrats. And the bureaucrats were the only Russians that mattered.

They do fucked up shit, just to send a message, like the mafia does. Don't like your working conditions, want to organize a strike? Off to the Gulags with you!

Under a free market, you can form a labor union, or a coop or even a commune. Nobody is fucking stopping you.

guys on jet -> applied decades of accumulated skills and knowledge, risked their own wealth, finally made it big and are celebrating a successful negotiation

farmers - > pull plants out of the ground, something that literally anybody, even children, can do

>>14313776
>Nobody is fucking stopping you.
Except of course the existing union for your profession :))) hope you like their politics and agenda! Sorry, if you try to organize for something else you will be black listed :)))))))))))

>>14313561

>>14312885
I wouldn’t necessarily say work or starve is a choice. In an existential sense yes but in reality it’s not really a choice. No one who is an actual wagie believes they have a choice. They need to work that job they hate because they can’t afford not to. That’s not exactly freedom of choice.

>>14313561
>>14313605
>""""Nat Soc""""
cringe af

>>14314124
Dude, that's boomer propaganda. There are non union tradesmen. They just get paid less than union tradesmen. Fact is, collective bargaining is within a worker's rational self interest. That's why commies abolish them, once they get into power.

>>14311762
A basic living for your family is very easy to achieve under capitalism. Under socialism picking up leftover rice for your family is punishable by death

Mexican'ts are not people

>>14312705

You haven’t worked with corporate executives, have you.

>>14312425
>communism
>strong family structure and values

You just pulled that right out of your ass. Communism was never, ever about family. It's not even mentioned in any communist material.