/biz/ - Business & Finance

Great OP. You did forget this news though

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/02/18/dan-loebs-third-point-drops-out-of-sonys-top-10-biggest-holders/

Daniel Loeb may have either shuffled the Third Point stake to start a proxy war via investors or is quietly exiting. More likely the former. So expect things to get real nasty on next financial quarter regarding Sony Pictures.

>>123703
why do you keep on reposting this OP? let me repost my comment from the old thread:

>this thread
so do none of you even read the articles that are posted?

Sony is spinning off it's TV into a separate entity, but it will still be owned by Sony.
Sony is selling VAIO. It has stopped it's Sony Reader Online store too.

that's it. they are still operating. they are not breaking up.

>OPs first article is from May 2013
>second article just says they are considering some of the suggestions Loeb made in May 2013

>>123703
GDDR5 should be interesting to watch.
Neither console maker wants to lose that much but MS has more leeway to play with pricing partly due to RAM and also because Sony can't afford to eat big losses flippantly.

I've seen some ideas floating about MS ditching Kinect + drive to make a play for around 349 USD. But some people dispute it by claiming Sony will take a 50 dollar hit just for price parity which seems like an absurd idea.

>>123929

The problem is that the Xbox One's entire concept of being a living room console with multiple functions has its entire dependency on the voice command and such of the Kinect. They can't cut that out.

Sony can't make their console any cheaper in this climate until they can get process manufacturing on their side to shrink the die process or simplify the machine and electronic circuitry inside to have enough of a savings to be able to pass it onto consumers.

it's ogre

>>123857

>One of the last big zaibatsu's crumbling and struggling against Korea from the era when Japan ruled the world
>A once priceless film studio now reducing content and having to cut costs to keep the heating on
>Not interesting to talk about

It's going to continue as long as it's interesting. And it's sure is interesting. Wonder how Mobile World Congress is going to go for them.

>>123857

Did you not read the articles, or anything said in the previous thread? Nothing is set in stone, they have not broken up yet, but the talks of breakup themselves are a reason for concern. They're still operating for now, but unless they sort their shit out they could easily be gone or wound down within the next 5-10 years.

Selling Vaio was smart, but they should have pushed it off years earlier, and selling off something that was a major component of a company looks bad. Talk about such a sale is bad enough, even when its for the good of a company, but actually doing it shows they knew it was a dud.
Spinning off TVs into a separate entity is a good idea up until the Sony ownership comes into play; consumer confidence in Sony AV is at an all time low thanks to years of low quality and high prices, and it will take more than a minor rebrand to turn that financial black hole into something profitable, and if they're not pouring funds into it in the first place it will be even harder to make that happen. It's a venture unlikely to pay off for years.
Then you have to factor in the massive losses of the Gaming division, and the bipolar nature of Entertainment. Patents and Insurance are where they still make a killing, but that's about it.

They've burned away money on unprofitable endeavors over the last decade and a half, and their hardware manufacturing divisions have taken the brunt of the blow. Only radical changes or a sudden upswing in consumer confidence could pull them out now, and neither are likely scenarios right now.

I've got a question about the Playstation division: if Sony ends up selling it off, what might happen in regards to the exclusive game deals SCE has made with 3rd part devs? Their Santa Monica studio is co-developing numerous games with other smaller indie companies, and their Japan studio is working on games with Capcom and From Software.

If SCE gets sold off and those games end up canceled in the process, that's going to hurt a lot of 3rd party developers, maybe even putting them out of business if they're one of the small indie companies.

>>123703
sony will always be a permanent shit stain in Japan, all they have to do is declare bankruptcy for the 3rd/ 4th time and keep holding onto the government

>>124012
That what I worry about the entertainment ventures, but they're also the biggest DMCAfags, so getting bought by Amazon may be a big fuck you to them

>>124030
but doesn't japan not do bailouts?

>>124047
sony is too big a company and they have groveled to them before

>>124053
Japan has specifically stated they won't bail out electronics companies.

>>124053
>sony is too big a company
>The "too big to fail" argument
Here we go again.

>>124012

It will come with them. Depends what the priorities of the buyer might be though.

Apple? Not sure they would hold on to a lot of the division in general. It would probably be heavily streamlined.

Amazon? Probably will hold on. But I can see project cut backs.

>>124041

The RIAA losing it's greatest ally to it's worst nightmares over the past 10 years would be the greatest karmic "fuck you" ever in history and make the MPAA shit bricks.

>>124012
>that's going to hurt a lot of 3rd party developers
The ridiculous costs of developing on the PS3 have already hurt a massive number of Japanese 3rd-party developers.

>>124065

To explain further. Sony Life, which is the insurance part, is a totally separate IPO under the Sony banner. If the JP government have to bail them out. It will only be Sony Life getting any funds and the other aspects would have to sell off assets.

Also the tickers to keep an eye on

6758:JP for Nikkei trading
SNE:US for NYSE

>>123949
Yep, MS is constrained by Kinect. But ultimately they still can cut things to create a lite-model designed to be price competitive. But they won't unless they feel they really need to.

>>124012
Development costs rising already hurt. But I don't think they made too many 3rd party deals.

>>123703

Desu!

>>123703
>Posting this thread every day

>>124683

Note: When butthurt >>>/v/ garbage appears in this thread. Do your duty and take out the trash.

>>124683
>>124724
>>124735
Did poster ID literally just get implemented?

first ive noticed. a janitor is doing work itt too.

>>124753
I realized i just called mewt a janitor. hi bebe.

>>124683
>xbone tan
Hey, hey there
That is not how I intended its implementation.

>>124742
Literally.

>>124742
I think I was the first post with user id on the /biz/ noob thread

Get

>>124768

Same angry fanboy trying to shitpost the last thread probably.

General rule of these threads if some butthurt Sony Fanboy manages to crawl their way out. Trash them with facts and continue the conversation like the last threads.

Someone just translated an article with an interview with a former VP of Sony. He claims the collapse was caused internally with American style management.

>>124639

Interesting reading.

>>124800

Someone just translated an article with an interview with a former VP of Sony. He claims the collapse was caused internally with American style management.

>>124639 (Cross-thread)

Interesting reading.

That's pretty nice but should it have its own thread? could have been done dandy just here

>>124806
>Heaven

W-what

Aren't poster ID supposed to be random? This can't be chance can it?

I don't have experience with this

>Entertainment division struggling again; Robocop is failing, Pompeii forecasts looking poor, ASM2 flopping or coming in below expectations could be the final nail.

Well actually RoboCop has made an estimated $43 million over budget so far, and Monuments Men did make back its budget with around $10 profit so far. And if you think The Amazing Spiderman 2 is going to flop after the first one tripled its budget with a $752 million gross box office, you'd be wrong. Sony's film studios are doing relatively well, its just a drop in the bucket when you consider the size of the company and its annual losses.

I'll give you Pompeii, that shit's going down hard

>>124841

sageru

>>124868
test

>>124966
you wanker

>>124858
every major studio had a 2 to 300 million dollar bomb last year.

And wiki is reporting diferently - On November 21, 2013, SPE and Sony Entertainment's CEO Michael Lynton announced that SPE will shift emphasis from movies to television by cutting its 2014 film slate.[23][24][25][26] It was also announced on the same day, that there will be more Spider-Man sequels and spin-offs.[27]

Sony seriously needs to make their Xperia Z phone spark interest across the industry.

Rumors are spreading that the Z2 will be announced over the next few days.

The only markets they're known for are video games, cameras, and partially smartphones.

The issue is that they expanded into too many fucking markets.... similar to the Roman Empire... too big of an empire becomes too hard to manage.

The Z2 better be a fucking mindblowing phone instead of just some 6 month incremental upgrade.

Kaz get your shit together and create the best Sony can do.

>>125020
>Roman Empire

>>124858
OP here, I'm actually glad to hear Robocop posted a profit, and I know monuments men is doing alright, but is that against production budget alone or inclusive of marketing? The former had a huge push December through January, though the latter not so much. ASM2 is going all out with both marketing and production, so that's why I among others have some concerns. After a lackluster 2013, Sony Entertainment is in need of some hits.
I'm a Rome/Sword&Sandal nut, and Pompeii doesn't look appealing in the slightest. Hell, the 300 sequel looks more commercially attractive.

>>124080
I wonder if PS4 is going to change that.Due to x86 architecture, development process might get simplified, leading to (relatively) decreased development cost.
Of course, asset fidelity needs to increase in this gen, driving the price up. It'll be interesting to see how will these two factors balance out and reflect on the final development cost.

I wonder if game companies in Japan are going to try to absorb smaller indie studios that were developing for PC up until now to get their engineering know-how.

>>124995
laughed my ass off

>>125041
Ah, it so appears I rushed to judgement a bit, those numbers are all based upon production budgets so more than likely marketing isn't accounted for. It's difficult to find numbers on marketing budgets as they are rarely reported publicly. With that in mind it will probably take RoboCop/Monuments a few more weeks to make significant profit, but I would imagine based on their success so far should do all right.

What's interesting to me is that its always domestic box office numbers that are posted which can be misleading. RoboCop is sucking hard in the states, but is apparently hot shit elsewhere as it made an estimated $100 million overseas thus far. With worldwide gross in mind, Sony's offerings seem to fair much better.

I think they'll have trouble matching the gargantuan year they had in 2012 (ASM/MIB III/Skyfall landed them with #1 market share that year), but ASM2 and 22 jump street should be solid hits coming up here for the studio

also
>mfw Xerxes yells WAR

>>125161
Non-US markets are where they make a lions share of the profits. Plus they have the spiderman and xmen contracts, which always rake in dough

>>124012
Their fucked. It's why no one save for sony and devs/pubs that sony are completely footing the bill for will even consider making a ps4 only title.
It's also why no jap devs that aren't totally bankrolled by sony are even considering making a ps4 title, and everyone else is sticking to last gen. It's also why more then a few are hoping nintendo either gets their shit together and fixes the wiiu situation so they have a stable console to dev on or buys them out and they get decent management and a steady paycheck.

>>125020
I'm probably replacing my phone with an off-contract Xperia Play just because if I'm going to ever play Android games, I want to play them with a legitimate integrated joypad.

They can cover markets that aren't being catered to, they just don't seem to have anyone up top who knows what they are.

>>125382
Didn't Sony fuck up all the Xperia Play users by never updating Android?

>>125410
Okay, well maybe that means I should keep looking. Maybe I should just go with my original plan of an old BlackBerry.

I think Sony has hit bottom and is on the up and up. Hopefully them jumping on 4k early can give em a leg up with their TVs (which they still own) and cameras.

Aren't their new Xperia phones doing well? Also their Smartwatch is the best on the market in my opinion. They need to stop making shitty movies is though. Anyone could see Robocop and Pompei is a flop... Why do they focus on shit like that?

>>125726
>Sony has hit bottom and is on the up and up
I wish I shared your optimism; I'd probably be a much happier analyst if I was. Or more disappointed. You must have missed the last couple of threads, and CES, so I'll enlighten you.
Sony's 2014 55 inch 4K was revealed with an RRP of $4999, which is a significant drop from last year's unit, but a day later Vizio revealed their own 50 inch 4K unit at $999. Samsung and LG (the latter of whom produce the panels used by Sony) are in a position to undercut them as well, in larger sizes too.
Xperia phones are doing alright, but Apple and Samsung have a stranglehold on the market, with Nokia gradually gaining ground with their WP8 handsets.
Their smart watch is good, but it doesn't have the level of marketing that Samsung's unit does, or the low price of the pebble unit. Once Apple launches their own device this year or next year (I'd imagine this year, with all iOS8 signs pointing to an emphasis on fitness and wearable accessories) they'll take a huge nite out of the market, regardless of quality.
Saying a movie is shitty is subjective, but they have made a few mistakes of late. Sony Entertainment has always been hit and miss, and they tend to greenlight what they believe will be blockbusters. Robocop may yet break even on marketing and production costs, but Pompeii is a likely flop on both fronts. ASM2 should do alright, considering the huge amount of marketing going into it, but if that only manages to break even and they don't have another big ticket 2014 film in the works save for 22 Jump Street (much lower overall budget, making the margins higher) which could go either way.
That's the thing with Sony entertainment; it swings up and down from year to year.

>>125020
>The Z2 better be a fucking mindblowing phone instead of just some 6 month incremental upgrade.

Don't get your hopes up. From the leaks It's less powerful than a Galaxy S5 and the big gimmick is that it has a "4K Camera". Z2 Tablet's just a refresh as well and the early access Samsung gave everyone to the NotePro just flushed interest. On top of that, 64-Bit Windows 8 Tablets are due to be coming from the big manufacturers as well.

>>126711

>Xperia phones are doing alright, but Apple and Samsung have a stranglehold on the market, with Nokia gradually gaining ground with their WP8 handsets.

I found it interesting on that small WinPhone briefing that Sony wasn't part of the huge amount of new OEM vendors when MS managed to land LG who are a growing player.

>Robocop may yet break even on marketing and production costs, but Pompeii is a likely flop on both fronts.

Sony were smart enough to release in foreign markets where they could get more of a curiosity audience than the US who were rampantly shitting on it before it came out. It will probably barely break even but the fact they are just breaking even on foreign box office and flopping domestically is not a good sign.

So the Z2 line got announced.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-24/sony-strengthens-smartphone-lineup-with-xperia-z2-adds-tablet.html

Seems nice. 4K Camera I don't think people will be buying into that. Bezel on top of Bezel display. Problem is, the trending is "Oh that's kinda nice. When's Samsung's reveal on again?".

Market up this morning on Mobile announcements. Nikkei declined on sluggish JP PS4 sales. Not sure if it will hold. SNE seems a favourite of Shorters recently (Their 5 day recently can be summarized with [SHORTING INTENSIFIES])

>>123703
>off into it's own company
>it's
I can never take illiterate shitbrains like you seriously. It's a sign of low intelligence.
Also the source you base your claims on is already a year old.
Thus said you should go back to where you came from, namely >>>/v/ and have shit flinging contests with the rest of the children.

>>128360
>if I make myself out to be autistic, people won't notice I'm from /v/

>>123703
Sony is past the point of no return.
Management obviously doesn't want to split up or cut off the cancer until absolutely forced to. They finally do something incredibly late this year and basically half ass it. There has to be a lot of pride in the CEO and board to keep them from admitting the failure Sony has become in so many areas.

They have no breakthrough products that will make them a lot of money in the near term and they tout their ps4 sales despite it probably bringing in almost no profit this year and a miniscule amount for the company in the long run.

Its at the point where I imagine they have had trouble hiring and keeping good talent for some time. If I worked for Sony I would be job shopping constantly and if I was looking for a job Sony would be my last choice.

>>128679

It's been known engineers have been leaving for a while

http://business.time.com/2014/02/21/beleaguered-sony-is-betting-it-all-on-one-thing/

>That hasn’t stopped him from being peppered with questions from investors who have heard engineers are quitting in droves, endangering Sony’s ability to come up with innovation. Hirai has not directly addressed such questions.

Could explain why the Z2 line isn't very inspiring and a lot of their product at the MWC feels very "Me too". Hell, I'd argue that Samsung's upcoming launch feels more Sony than Sony itself. There's genuine anticipation to see what the S5 is like and what else they are announcing tonight.

>>128703
>It's been known engineers have been leaving for a while

As an electronics company they are basically in a death spiral. They NEED excellent engineers (and marketers, project managers etc, etc) and they can't get them because they have shitty products and are seen as a sinking ship. To right this ship they would actually need quality employees and engineers but they aren't going to get them because they are sinking (almost sunk now).

>>128774

Their fit band seems lackluster in comparison to Samsung's and reliant on the mobile aspect while Samsung's is more standalone

http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-samsung-sony-fitness-tracking-gear-fit-smartband-20140224,0,6423777.story#axzz2uHkcAnLW

Samsung's watches sound a lot more ambitious as well. Feels more like Samsung is replecating the old Sony while new Sony is trying to keep pace with the competition. The Z2 seems to be a darling but that's because the S5 didn't seem to light the world on fire. One had an orchestra introducing it and likely a $10 Billion budget on marketing. The other, will have less. Guess which is which.

>>128360
My bad, shouldn't have cut and paste from the old thread without copyediting it, and the article may be old, but it remains relevant. You can tip your fedora, or wave your hoof, or whatever man-child flavor of the month action you take on your way out if you're not going to contribute anything of value.

>>128774
Just sell all their electronics minus PS4.

Holy shit I just saved Sony!

http://www.engadget.com/2014/02/24/amsung-galaxy-s5-vs-the-competition/

>Sony Z2 beating everything 2014 with better screen, same dimensions, gorgeous new screen, bigger battery and IP58 certified.

>>130982
>Just sell
>Sony
If they could sell things they wouldn't be in this situation.

>>130982

The games division isn't exactly profitable either.
The PS3 cost the company literal billions of dollars, the Vita is a flop, the PS4's profitability is very much in question, and Sony's first-party software has been on the decline both in quantity and quality.

>>131059
they could easily, they just don't want to because CEO is fucking retarded

>>131070
ps4 is gonna milk them so much cash. Nobody cares about past losses

>>131014
>Sony's phone is a literal black rectangle

Independent from its features/cost/etc, that has to be the most unexciting phone design I have ever seen

>>131078
>ps4 is gonna milk them so much cash. Nobody cares about past losses

>>>/v/
neogaf.com

>>131086
Plebs like you should stay away from investing. You'll just lose money

>>131014
it's in also bombproof/crazy durable

>>131070
>Sony's first-party software has been on the decline both in quantity and quality.

Are you even trying?
>As of January 2014, the game has sold 4.1 million units, making it the fastest-selling PlayStation 3 game after three weeks.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_of_Us

>>131081
I-i-i don't know if you're serious, just stahp.

This thread is full of either people with severe mental disorders or shills.

>>131078
>ps4 is gonna milk them so much cash.

I wish I could share your optimism but it doesn't seem like that's the case. Sony's been really dodgy about whether or not the PS4 hardware is actually profitable, and the upward trend in GDDR5 price certainly won't help things. Software is big source of profit for console makers but Sony's been closing some studios, and there have been more than a few recent flops like Sony Smash Bros, Puppeteer, etc. Are there even any worthwhile first-party exclusive games coming to PS4 in 2014 besides Infamous?

Sony said its gaming division profits for the last quarter were $172 million, but that's a ridiculously low number for what's supposedly the fastest-selling console launch in history. Microsoft's gaming division profits from the Xbone launch were significantly higher at $342 million, despite the slightly lower sales and black PR campaign from the gaming community. Sony isn't handling things well at all.

>>131132
>Are there even any worthwhile first-party exclusive games coming to PS4 in 2014 besides Infamous?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_4_games

>>131114
The Last of Us was released with a tsunami of marketing and arguably paid-off game reviews, it's the one financial bright spot in Sony's recent first-party sales.

http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/sony-has-closed-so-many-game-studios-this-gen-29363528/
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2012/aug/22/games-industry-redundancies
Sony Smash Bros. and Puppeteer were bombs, Gran Turismo 6 (one of Sony gaming's HUGE cash cows) released to tepid sales and reception. The couple of first-party games on the Vita have done little to move systems.

>>131014
If it's less expensive and more importantly better marketed than its competitors, the Z2 could gain some ground. Technophiles may love it (depending on what proprietary software Sony dumps into it), but the marketing is what will make or break it. Like >>131081 says, it isn't a particularly nice looking phone, and the bulk of the crowd are going to flock to iPhones and S5/Notes on brand recognition alone. This is a race for third place.

>>131078
At the moment it looks like SCE is being fattened up for a sale, hence why there is so much talk about the number of PS4 units moved and little about it being profitable. Both price and demand of GDDR5 RAM jumped with the cryptocurrency boom, so that's not helping Sony's production of the units cost-wise, and scarcity might bottleneck production.
A company like Samsung or LG could slash the cost of production per unit with their enormous manufacturing bases and relatively huge cash reserves, more likely the latter than the former, but both Sony and Microsoft have shown that entering the game console industry is a high risk venture, with billions lost if something goes wrong. The big reason Microsoft seems to stay in the game is because it wants to keep up the living room trojan, and with WP8 and Surface (the latter at an entry loss) they're making the push to have a new work/lifestyle trojan on top of that. Nintendo just keep doing what they've done for the last thirty years, with all of the expected ups and downs.

>>131014

Problem is you are going to have to sell that to the Samsung crowd. "ITS NOT SAMSUNG!" won't work as well. Especially as those sort of features were pretty much in demand by customers lately (Fitness apps are huge). P

Plus no one knows what HTC's play is going to be as their reveal is late March. The leaked specs for the "M8" seem to have it being a beast.

Granted, the Z2 is a nice phone but it lacks that killer feature that says "I need to upgrade this".

Whoever's responsible for the Z2 Tablet should be shot though since that is literally nothing new to the table, still expensive and in a market that PC OEM manufacturers are starting to take over with their Win 8.1 Tabs.

>>131132
>Microsoft's gaming division profits from the Xbone launch were significantly higher at $342 million

$411 million according to last quarter. Also doesn't take into account subscriptions and digital purchasing. Hence why everyone was shocked and started to wonder if Sony was eating a loss at SKU level when MS shipped less but made more. Everyone assumed PS4 was the higher revenue generating console.

Aren't they the first to embrace 4k video?
Does it even matter really?

>>131213
No, 4K will be slow to catch on. Shows aren't recorded in 4K and gaming consoles aren't even CLOSE to that level. Plus LG/Vizio and others have already massively undercut Sony's 4K prices.

>>131132
>Sony said its gaming division profits for the last quarter were $172 million, but that's a ridiculously low number for what's supposedly the fastest-selling console launch in history

I guess you weren't around to see the reports for game division for ps2 during the first few quarters.

Hint: The boom comes 1-2 years later.

>>131239
>Hint: The boom comes 1-2 years later.

The PS2 actually had quite a few good exclusive games early on. The PS4 game library is far from comparable. Game development is much more resource-intensive now, and many developers have moved to mobile or handhelds.

>>131239

They need cash NOW though. That's the problem, they can't afford to have the "pot at the end of the rainbow" strategy. Especially since Pictures is unstable as hell and electronics is a sink they refuse to let go of.

>>130680
>Feels more like Samsung is replecating the old Sony while new Sony is trying to keep pace with the competition.

Its funny people say this. Back when the CEO was Nobuyuki Idei they instituted an early retirement program to save money or some stupid shit. The guys who brought Sony to the top retired and Samsung among other companies came in and scooped them up. Sony's fall has been a long time coming.

>>131179
>$411 million according to last quarter. Also doesn't take into account subscriptions and digital purchasing. Hence why everyone was shocked and started to wonder if Sony was eating a loss at SKU level when MS shipped less but made more. Everyone assumed PS4 was the higher revenue generating console.

I honestly thought people would expect this. The Xbox is 100 dollars more expensive with some cheaper part (no gddr5) and connect. They are at cost or making a little bit of cash.


I just want to remind everyone that Hirai's current strategy is called "One Sony." If that doesn't say fuck you to the people who want to split Sony up for good reason I don't know what does.

>>131239
Like it did for the PS3? Look; this is not a Sony hate thread, we are not shilling for other companies, a lot of us actually like or liked Sony for what they were (they made some of the best retail CRTs), but the state of Sony is not good. The profits posted for the gaming division are small, likely stemming almost entirely from PS3 software and bolstered by fluctuations in the value of the Yen. PS4 software isn't getting the attach rate it needs, especially when it comes to first party (Killzone has sold roughly 2M, Knack 500K, so that's less than an 0.5 cumulative attach rate to the lauded 5.3 million units sold).
The PS3 pretty much bled the division dry, 4.7 billion lost, and it was not until halfway into the life cycle of the console that the hardware was able to break even. That's all of the PS2 cash and most of the PS1 cash gone, the last of it being thrown into R&D and marketing for PS4. They're not making as big a loss on the PS4 as they did the PS3, but it is still a loss that they aren't recouping, and aren't likely to recoup until software sales pick up significantly.
As has been said before, the PS+ subscriptions that they say would make it profitable immediately are being carried over from PS3/Vita owners, where it was supposed to make those consoles profitable. Cannibalizing one product to bolster another is neither a smart nor sustainable strategy for Sony. They need a new revenue stream now, which is why they're going to push PSNow and their proprietary music/video on demand services, even though they lack the proper infrastructure for the former to work properly.
They're doing things that are "good" for gamers in the short term, but questionable for them long term, and making poor business decisions in the process.

So Elop is in charge of devices now, do you still feel he will pawn of Xbox brand, how would that impact sony

>>131345
>They are at cost or making a little bit of cash.
I'd lean towards the latter, even factoring in marketing. They have a good software attach rate, something like 0.73 per console cumulatively between Forza 5, Dead Rising 3, and Ryse. Once they start launching in more countries and start expanding their library, things are only going to improve.
Titanfall should help rake in some cash and sell some units, and Infamous should do the same for PS4, though at much slimmer margins. Both are going to depend on first party sales to be profitable in the first couple of years whilst PS3/360 wind down.

>>131391
A little off topic, but I'll indulge. It isn't up to Elop alone, and by putting Nadella in charge more or less puts that idea out to pasture. Love it or hate it, the Xbox brand is here to stay, partly because it is a flagship for Azure. I mean, the way they're pushing Xbox Music and Xbox Video across all MS platforms is indicative that it won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Turfing Mattrick was a smart move, and the fact that the Xbox one is selling and is profitable in spite of the whole NSA and black PR campaign they faced online shows that it can still power forward. It will never hit the billion that Mattrick was babbling about, but it will do well for itself.
If anything, I can see Elop placing less emphasis on Surface and pushing more towards Windows 8/RT tablets and phones. Nokia have a couple coming out soon, Lenovo are pushing theirs, and it's more profitable to license the software than to build the hardware and risk another 900M write down.

>>131481
To add to Xbox One possible profit/breaking even, the UK price drop and Titanfall bundle suggests there is plenty of room to move. If PS4 did something similar with, say, Infamous, they'd be making a bigger loss than they are already.

>>131356
are you really trying to compare ps3 launch with ps4? It's not fucking comparable.

I'm done talking with you

>>132012
Weren't you comparing it to the PS2 launch? PS4 is the successor to the PS3, all four PlayStation models are open to comparison with one another, especially when the subject matter is production and marketing. Each has had advantages and disadvantages, with an increasing amount of the latter, and if you are unable to accept that, you are welcome to return to /v/ and join the circlejerk there.

>>132012
>asshurt Sony investor in denial

>>132012
While you're at it, fuck off back to >>>/v/ with the rest of the trash.

In light of this thread dying down and me being new, why is PS4 selling so many units? Shouldn't this be pushing their games division through the roof? And why aren't 3rd party games like CoD and Fifa an apt replacement for their 1st party when it comes to attach rate? I'm not for or against Sony and I believe you when you say they're doing poorly, I just like listening to you guys talk :3

>>132983
aggressive marketing campaigns cost money
razor profit margin on console
Absymal library (mostly ports)

Also they should have at least kept Backward Compatiblity, It would give consumers a better reason to get one. As well as another thing to slam the Spybox on

>>133445
>profit margin on console
Pfft.

>>133476
I know it's a razors and blades deal, but money is money

>>133510
Negative money if you're talking about the new console.

>>132983
Welcome to Mr Hirai's wild ride, anon.
As has been stated above, the aggressive marketing campaign is the main reason units have sold as well as they have. Thanks to the cost of this aggressive marketing campaign, the R&D, and the cost of parts and manufacture (the former of which is likely to rise before it falls thanks to cryptocurrency miners creating huge demand and limiting supply of GDDR5 RAM) the console is selling at a loss, one that can only be fixed by first party title attachment.

>why aren't 3rd party games like CoD and Fifa an apt replacement for their 1st party when it comes to attach rate?

I don't think anyone's asked that yet, so I'm glad your brought it up, and I'll try to keep it as simple as possible for everyone. With any software sale, the money paid at retail is divvied up between the reseller, the distributor, the owner of the hardware platform, the publisher, and the studio (the latter two sometimes being the same thing, usually more middlemen involved but let's stick to the basics). The less participants there are, the more money the remaining parties are entitled to, which is why a lot of indies go digital only, and the reason there is such a big push for digital only from publishers (the sooner they can cut out brick and mortar retail/physical media, the larger the publisher/dev/platform cut will be. That was actually part of the reasoning behind Xbox One's original DRM policies, and likely where we're headed anyway thanks to strong digital PC sales).
With third party games like CoD, FIFA, Assassins Creed etc a large chunk of the money is going to Activision/EA/Ubisoft, and much less towards Nintendo, Microsoft, or Sony. Platform exclusives meanwhile, like Ryse, Forza, Dead Rising, Killzone, Knack, Drive Club and any of the numerous Nintendo IPs that have been released are developed either in house or by company owned/affiliated studios, meaning the money mostly comes back to them.
cont. next post

>>134414
What it comes down to, really, is how much of the pie everyone gets. In third party everyone is getting less, and development this gen is taking longer and costing more, so the effort put in is going to be greater than the reward for a couple of years. In first party they're putting in more or less the same effort, but costs are lowered because they're only developing for a single platform, and almost all of the money is coming back to them. A greater return still comes when something has been purchased digitally, which is what Sony should start pushing harder.

The larger the install base, the greater the potential sales, so I applaud Sony for managing to push the PS4 as far as they have since November. That said, until they start getting a first party attach rate greater than 0.6 (cumulative between titles), they're not going to make serious money with PS4. If that doesn't happen and they get an unfavorable change in the value of the Yen, they could see a serious loss next quarter in gaming. Killzone and Knack are more or less spent in their launch territories for now, and are not likely to see another spike, so it's up to future titles to carry them.

>>131481

I'd also argue that Bill Gates being back on the floor is pretty much the death knell for that idea since he's a fan of Xbox and Surface.

Actually Surface has never been more popular and the 2 was out of stock over the Hollidays in the US. Last murmurs were that next refresh, they are just going to kill the RT, however as more people want the pro and the trend of PC OEM's getting into tablets and using PC parts and full fat Win 8.1 like the Surface Pro.

Makes me wonder what Kaz was thinking selling PC's since the PC OEM's are moving into the tablet space and Lenovo and Dell already found success. He could have streamlined PC's down into working with the Tablet division while having less lay offs and an opportunity to hit a market as tablets are going to be a big battleground on Google Vs Microsoft this year and the smart manufacturers like Samsung are playing both sides.

But y'know. It's evident Kaz don't work on logic at this point.

>>134894
They were smart with the Surface 2; they knew oversupply was a big problem for the first generation (evidenced by the massive reduced price sales on the 64GB and 128GB models going on right now), so they scaled back and made a better product that works will in both a home and professional setting.

It was too late in the game for Sony to completely revamp Vaio and get into the windows tablet game, at least in a way that was affordable to consumers and wasn't hemorrhaging Sony cash. Selling off Vaio is going to help them in the long term, if there is a long term. The Xperia tablet could still go down that route, but it would encounter the same problems jumping from Android to the full Windows 8 suite. Maybe they could pull off RT, but then affordability comes in, and to endorse the OS of one of their major rivals, a specialized version of which is utilized by what consumers see as their biggest rival in the console market, would seem like admitting Microsoft have the better product, which is PR suicide.

Sony could have struck gold if they hadn't dismissed the idea of an OSX based Vaio, something that Jobs himself pitched over a decade ago when he was getting Apple back on its feet, but they dropped the ball. I mean, with a good enough relationship, they could have jumped on with the early iTunes and iPod craze, perhaps there would have been some kind of formal communication between Apple devices and Playstation in the vein of Zune and Xbox... but there's no point wondering what could have been.

>>135047

Wonder if that's fucking them up as well because Sony was rumored to be interested in Windows Phone and Hirai said they were still licencing OEM's from Microsoft last investor call. But they are in competition in one of their biggest areas in gaming and an Xbox tile showing up on an Xperia would be interesting to say the least. And their rivals seem to be flirting with the idea of putting WinPhone 8.1 sets on the market alongside Droid sets and rumors around HTC is they may be allowing you to choose what OS you want.

Feels very much like a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation. Though I wouldn't be shocked if they wait till the videogame console silliness dies down a bit before announcing it.

Idei dismissing the idea of OS X on Vaio shows how utterly incompetent he was as CEO though. Again, we get back to "Bad management" and now we have to wonder how long "Bad management" has been going on and what are it's long term effects.

>>130982
For the whateverth time, Sony has no chances at surviving if they go playstation only

What choices started all this though? I here proprietary being used a lot for music and movies. How though? Did they have some forced software in there some where? I would like to be kept up to speed, nothing more.

>>131213

Shows are broadcasted in 1280x720.

TV content will all be 1920x1080 way before 3840x2160 content airs.

>>135382
Betamax is the first major proprietary hardware of Sony's that comes to mind. Next to VHS it was the (marginally) superior format in terms of picture, sound, and build quality, but the costs were far greater than what consumers were willing to pay, so it ultimately died out in the US and Europe, though it was still supported in South America until at least 02, because I remember finding a new copy of the first Harry Potter film on BMax when I went to Brazil in 04. Another hardware example is that in spite of them being among the first to begin pushing soundbar based home theater systems, they made their first iterations compatible solely with the Bravia HX series, which was struggling to sell even without this unnecessary add-on that only marginally improved sound quality.
As for proprietary software, that's a little more about personal preference, but it isn't entirely subjective. Sony don't make their own television panels, haven't done so since CRT died out, so they buy their LCD/LED panels from other companies like Samsung, Sharp and LG, more the latter than the former two, and install their own software for actual television production. For the last several years the software has been a variation on the XMB interface, which is notoriously slow, and unfriendly to users unfamiliar with XMB. Their smartphones, on the other hand, use a slightly modified variant of Android, but they never seem to update it, so more recent Android apps and games are unusable.
They've always pushed their own products to become the de facto standard, an understandable strategy, but save for BluRay I can't think of any they've succeeded with. I mean, Sony don't even make the best BluRay players anymore, let alone the cheapest, so they've been beaten at their own game there.

It is worth looking at the XCP rootkit scandal, and though I hate using Wikipedia as a source, the article sums it up well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal

>>135536

The biggest problem Sony had as a company was that it was highly indebted to pictures and music and they were always in bed with the RIAA and MPAA as a protectionist measure. So that influence started eating into their electronics as it always had to take in the concerns of the RIAA and MPAA.

So when re-writable and digital media showed up. They freaked and started trying to kill it even though competitors electronics were embracing it. Hence all the crazy DRM schemes they made during the 00's as they were trying to protect their old revenue streams instead of embracing new ones like some of their competitors or making half-hearted measures to try pacify both. And when they acted, it was usually too late. They were extremely late to the MP3 player party with the Walkman brand, which contained some vicious DRM and pushing people to the DRM filled online store which made customers say "Nope" and head straight to Apple. And since Pictures and Music always brought in the most cash over electronics in the 00's, they had final say.

The way the company is at odds with itself is one of the reasons why it's in the situation along with the poor management. Hell, I wouldn't be shocked if there was murder between execs when Sony sold the PS4 as the No-DRM machine since now Music and Movies have to live with a potential company reputation which will fuck them over if they start cracking down.

I can actually see the merits of spinning Movies and Music away from the main company so it won't get a say, honestly. Problem is, stripping a bi-polar pictures division removes the safety net of insurance. So they are in a situation where it's in the companies best interest, but they can't because management are cowards and they have no safety net if they have more flops.

>>135536
>>135676
Thanks! That clears up most of my confusion.
Did not know that Betamax was a Sony product, ouch.
Ah one thing I hear tossed around. The dream of one console that plays it all. Is that even remotely viable, profit wise? Comparing consoles to dvd players or PC just didnt sit right with me. I do mot know why.

>>135676
Getting in bed with any governing media body is a risky venture, even if it is in the name of protecting your IPs. They got too aggressive, and lost both consumer and artist confidence. I know a few recording artists, not major ones, but they've all been advised by agencies against signing with Sony because of it.

Oh man, remember when the MPAA and RIAA panic over piracy began? They made it seem like it was high treason to even THINK about piracy, and blamed every critical and commercial flop they could on people stealing it. I could go on a long rant here about how piracy could benefit both film and music industries, but that would be going off topic.

Back on Sony, were it not for the terrible backlash received by Xbox One's DRM policies, I imagine PS4 would have come with something similar out of the box. Then again, they have locked their music service behind a paywall, and their own video service on the unit is similar. I mean, because we're inching towards a digital ecosystem in the long term, we'll probably see both consoles adopt similar if more lenient policies within a few years.

Sony will hold on to Entertainment for as long as they can, even if it means selling IPs or downsizing, because royalty money from radio play and television syndication is an effortless cash source.

>>135807
Exclusivity is something that drives competition, and pushes developers to do their absolute best to sell both their game and that platform. With a universal console, you take away the us vs them mentality, which is a huge selling point tapping into basic human psychology. Everyone wants to wave a flag, deep down.
With the right PC, you can emulate just about every exclusive at varying quality up to the sixth generation, and there are plenty of people working on seventh generation. Eight generation emulation may come sooner due to Xbox One and PS4 sharing similar x86 based architecture, not sure about Wii U, but I highly doubt there will be an official all-in-one universal console any time soon. Partly for the above reasoning, partly because it would run into the same problem Android tablets and phones run into; fragmentation from custom hardware/software.

>>135878
>Sony will hold on to Entertainment for as long as they can, even if it means selling IPs or downsizing, because royalty money from radio play and television syndication is an effortless cash source.

Shrinking though. Especially due to services like Spotify who are willing to deal with independents on better terms along with big record companies and Sony has no choice because making some money is better than no money. It's a super awkward situation for the music division because it's significantly easier to self publish via Bandcamp or Sound Cloud and a lot of musicians are being heavily turned off by the idea of "All in one" package deals Sony are offering where the record co gets a high cut of the merch, tickets and other associated sales in exchange for contracts on top of that.

The Catalog and commercial licencing will keep them in cash, But it's going to be a sliding division for the next few years and it's really thanks to how much they embedded with the RIAA. The sins of the past haunt the present.

>>135973
Long term wise, is the x86 architecture a good idea. It sounds great on paper, but I am a strong believer that when developers squeeze out the potential of a console for a unique game game, said game is fantastic most of the time. I just did not like publishers saying that the hardware limits potential. It really goes against the old and wise saying of
>a bad workman always blames his tools

>>136357

The problem for me isn't that they used non-standard architecture before. It's that the architecture was unnecessarily complicated.

http://news.cnet.com/sony-ps3-is-hard-to-develop-for-on-purpose/

http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/sony-chief-kazuo-hirai-im-not-entertaining-even-the-notion-of-selling-our-entertainment-assets-1201118888/

A bit of a puff piece (Well it's Variety, what do you expect), but Hirai saying no chance of any entertainment spin offs at all (AKA F' Dan Loeb and the horse he rode in on) and once more repeating they are focusing on making electronics profitable. Also, he says "Wow" a lot (Spoilers).

Also seems to confirm the cuts to Sony pictures seem related to "When the cleaning staff come in" and less "Hey those idiot execs who greenlighted The Smurfs 2 need to hit the bricks". Huh.

Seems like the status quo will be mantained for now.

>>137035

That's really disappointing. Back to watching them sink under their own incompetence I guess.

Can't believe he did a Variety piece, and said that in plain language. What, did he think no one who would care, reads Variety?

>>137035
>Seems like the status quo will be mantained for now.
Great CEO or greatest CEO?

>>137086
>>137098

I think the whole "No we're not selling" is interesting as Loeb didn't even want to sell it. He wanted it to just be a spin off concern like Sony Life with an additional 20% stake opened for investment. Certainly could be a fear of Amazon or Apple or any other competitor they don't want in starting a proxy war through a stake. Wonder where that leaves the Third Point "Shuffle" though. Are they using proxies to stay in or quietly bow out?

Saying "We're tackling the problem by cutting back on the cleaning staff" is insanely idiotic though (And he doesn't even seem to be putting it off as a joke. He's deadly serious). And in an industry magazine no less.

>>135249

i think he meant computer entretaiment

>>137098
Uh I can understand how if you like the company you might like that, but Hirai as a CEO is... uh...

>>137035
>http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/sony-chief-kazuo-hirai-im-not-entertaining-even-the-notion-of-selling-our-entertainment-assets-1201118888/

>To clear his mind, Hirai likes driving his sports car with the top down. When he’s not on the road, he still prefers the driver’s seat, playing videogames like “Driveclub” and “Grand Turismo” on Sony’s PlayStation. “As you can tell,” he says, “I love cars.”

Amazing perks, playing game that isn't ready yet.

>>137731

I think he's being sarcastic, bro.

>>137762

Drive Club is ready. They just delayed it because the previews tore it a new asshole over the low framerate and they're either retooling it to fix this, or waiting for people to forget about the disappointment.

>>137796
>Drive Club is ready. They just delayed it because the previews tore it a new asshole over the low framerate and they're either retooling it to fix this

In other words, it's not ready.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/25/layoffs-hit-god-of-war-studio-sony-santa-monica

Project cancelled and staff laid off at Sony Santa Monica. Looks like nothing is sacred in the latest round of cuts (Unless you are a Sony Pictures executive it seems).

>>138564

Jesus christ, the ripples are happening already despite blockbuster console sales.

And people actually believed that the PlayStation's future was secured just because of good unit sales?

>>138159

In the current gaming industry, that's ready to most publishers.

>>138617

If that's not a smoking gun on "The margins are bad". I don't know what is. Especially if it's a project killed as said that could be 20 to 200 staff and it's a project for whats supposed to be the big breadwinner.

Variety sure picked a hell of a time to release that interview with the comments about lower level staff as well. I'm pretty sure that's going to go down spectacularly well with the people hit.

>>138564
Ouch! Really? GoW studio got hit by layoffs? Than Sony is no where near as healthy as the game media wants you to believe they are.

OMG! I forgot a quick question brought up alot before and I have no idea what it really signifies.
Nintendo buying back 10% of its shares from former bosses family. Is that good or bad? I really dont trust the gaming media on this.

>>137035
>Hirai saying no chance of any entertainment spin offs at all (AKA F' Dan Loeb and the horse he rode in on)

His turnaround strategy is "One Sony." He probably dropped Vaio because his hand was basically forced.
I see this as top management heavily emotionally invested in Sony. A lot of pride. Electronics literally made the company and the people in charge do not want to see what they consider to be "Sony" disappear.

>>139055

It's good and bad, but mostly bad. It signifies the former boss' family losing faith in the company, and it cost Nintendo a lot of money to keep those shares out of other people's hands.

On the plus side, it means that there's less opportunity for a hostile takeover/shareholder uprising.

>>125726
Sony is dead. If Loeb is trying to get away then that means they aren't even worth selling. I fully expect them to go the way of THQ and just die.

>>131227
Shows aren't even recoded in 1080p. Only retards would buy into 4k anytime this decade.

>>139136

I'd add as well that there was bad blood between the Yamauchi siblings and their father during the 00's as one of his daughters was married to Minoru Arkawa, former head of NOA, who left in bad blood post GameCube launch when the NOA staff were reshuffled and Howard Lincoln was put to pasture as the Mariners CEO. He admitted to their business practices during a BBC documentary. Hiroshi Yamauchi wouldn't speak to his daughter. Rest of the family sided with the daughter. Took years for them to mend bridges. The family, understandably, didn't want anything to do with Nintendo after his death. So there was a personal reason for them to get out and they offered to Nintendo first.

It cost a lot of money but as said, better to keep it out of the other shareholders hands and prevent proxy battles while they had the offer.

>>139136
>It signifies the former boss' family losing faith in the company,

I'm not really sold on this. The guy just died at the end of September and some of his heirs could simply have wanted to sell.

>>139002
Well, layoffs are extremely common in that industry, so it may have nothing to do with it.

>>139176

We're waiting to see what the scale is and what impact it had. A cancelled project could be a fairly sizeable amount.

>>139151

Pls keep the hyperbole to a minimum. This is /biz/, not /v/.

>>139172

Fair point. I'm guessing that'll be a big thing in that Console Wars movie on the way.

>>139174

I would say it has more to do with what >>139172 just said.

>>139164
>Shows aren't even recoded in 1080p
Most are recorded in 1080p/i in this day and age. Even here, in Australia, where television is still broadcast 576i.

SD equipment is starting to cost too much to maintain. It doesn't make business sense to justify anything lower than 1080p.

>Only retards would buy into 4k anytime this decade.
4K is today's 3D. Equipment manufacturers are desperate for something to get people buying again, and networks and broadcasters will cash in for the short term then ditch it as soon as it is no longer profitable.

>>139102
>I see this as top management heavily emotionally invested in Sony. A lot of pride. Electronics literally made the company and the people in charge do not want to see what they consider to be "Sony" disappear.

That's Japanese business for you - it's all about saving face.

>>139136
>>139172
Thank you for the information. I feel far more informed now.

>>139288

Not a problem.

>>139200
>I'm guessing that'll be a big thing in that Console Wars movie on the way.
If there was a console war movie, it would portray Sony in needlessly positive light.

>>139188

50-100 laid according to last update on IGN. A sizeable chunk of the studio. Not pleasant and I hope they land on their feet. If it wasn't for that Variety article I'd think of it as a "Nothing is safe from cost cutting" measure to keep the company on its toes but apparently the execs greenlighting the flops are more worthwhile than the cleaners throwing out the unsold copies.

>>139747

Apparently it's about Sega's rise vs Nintendo and their aggressive marketing campaign in the 90's. Depends how good the book is and if it's one sided, however.

>>139793
>Depends how good the book is and if it's one sided, however.
I don't mind a bit of dramatization. Pirates of Silicon Valley did it well. However, Sony has a lot of control with both the gaming media and the movie industry.
Also, what movie and what book? Is going to end up like the Neogaf documentary?

So Pompeii managed to scrape in $10M in a $100M production budget. That's not good.

>>138564
Well, GoW Ascension was a flop. I guess WWS started murdering people as soon as it hit them that the higher ups weren't doing shit for them and that they couldn't milk Kratos anymore.

>>139877

Console Wars by Blake J. Harris is the book. It's not out till May though and I'd imagine the film won't be till 2014/2015.

>>139875

Not out international till summer but social medias gonna murder it like social media murdered Robocop's domestic (And they were at least smart in letting it out internationally first so a curious audience could see it. It dropped like a rock after the first week).

>>139793
Are they really making the console movie. From what I read it sound like a big joke.

So I heard this interesting the theory. What if Sony is just prepping PS for a big sale. Making a godly system, so when the time comes they can sale it for profit.

Something along the lines of that.

>>124072
He says it's too big for a bailout

>>128679
>There has to be a lot of pride in the CEO and board to keep them from admitting the failure Sony has become in so many areas
Remeber the actual CEO is japanese, they never resign like that
He will commit suddoku before admitting failure

>>131345
>Its funny people say this. Back when the CEO was Nobuyuki Idei they instituted an early retirement program to save money or some stupid shit. The guys who brought Sony to the top retired and Samsung among other companies came in and scooped them up. Sony's fall has been a long time coming.

They been failing since Trinitron patent ended, the next thing that was successful for them was the PS2, since then only their phones have had some relevance

>>139176

A lot of large studios have been hit hard, but you also have publishers like Nintendo reiterating that they don't fire anyone. Irrational's recent loss of all but 15 employees and one of Sony's star studios losing members aren't good signs.

>>135047
>Maybe they could pull off RT, but then affordability comes in, and to endorse the OS of one of their major rivals, a specialized version of which is utilized by what consumers see as their biggest rival in the console market, would seem like admitting Microsoft have the better product, which is PR suicide.

They would never do this, Sony never makes their stuff work with the competitors, they're kinda like Apple in that aspect since the MiniDisc days

>>135047
>Sony could have struck gold if they hadn't dismissed the idea of an OSX based Vaio, something that Jobs himself pitched over a decade ago when he was getting Apple back on its feet, but they dropped the ball. I mean, with a good enough relationship, they could have jumped on with the early iTunes and iPod craze

They were competitors back then, Apple was going against their Walkman/Discman brands, and against their recently introduced MiniDisc

>>140371

Read the thread, we're all pretty sure that's exactly what Sony is doing. Sony talks big about hardware sales numbers, not a peep from them about software sales numbers or profitability though.

>>131213
I really doubt 4K will ever catch, it's just way too soon
Most older films (that could be digitized at 4K) have already been digitized at 1080p, and remastered
It would be too much of a hassle, specially when you can upscale 1080p well enough to 4K

>>140471
I have been it's very interesting talk. Just wanting to my two cents in.

>>135973
>Eight generation emulation may come sooner due to Xbox One and PS4 sharing similar x86 based architecture
But it will not, the same was said about the Xbox, which to this day can't be emulated, due to obscure, completely undocumented weird chips used in it

>>140452
Is there any publisher besides Nintendo that said they aren't laying anyone off?

I also have to wonder about that strategy. On one hand it's nice to see that it's a stable work environment and I'd have to agree with Iwata that firing people would make the workplace less positive as it could negatively impact the quality of their products, but at the same time I wonder if there are any places where layoffs would just be necessary.

>>138625
This, they just patch stuff after release
A lot of recent games weren't playable at launch, they only became playable after a patch after a day of the launch

>>140371
Some analysts (I'm not one of them) are indeed saying that Sony are fattening up the SCE for a sale, which is why they're pushing unit sale numbers over profits and software attachment, but we can't be sure. They just had a successful launch in Japan with around 320k units over a couple of days, which is good considering Japan has become a largely handheld market over the last few years, and most of the library so far is catered towards the West, but the surge could well be over now.

The most significant territories bar China (not counting HK) have already had their launches, and supply constraints will hit them harder than expected thanks to the rising cost of GDDR5 (they bought enough to cover launch in most territories while it was still at the lower price, but not enough for long term).

I think they should either sell to a company with a manufacturing base large enough that the loss on hardware will be negligible, but I doubt they will for cultural reasons. The PS brand has helped keep Sony relevant in the global market, and selling that would look terrible to investors and consumers both.

>>139102
Tell me this. Is McDonald's still McDonald's if instead of selling hamburgers, it begins exclusively selling tacos? Or hats? Or financial consulting? The reason Sony exists is to sell electronics, that's their business, its what they've done since their founding. If the people working their wanted to work in a different industry, or more importantly were qualified to work in a different industry, they would. Companies that exist for the sake of existing and pursue any means of profit, to the extent of abandoning their actual business, do not last long.

There may be exceptions to that rule, but currently I can't think of any. Sony was good at selling electronics. They should do what they are good at, and try to get better.

>>131345
Idei really did take down Sony by culling Sony's greatest asset, their senior engineers, in the interest of creating an executive centered hierarchical business. With his tenure of incompetence blowing the shift to digital music and non-CRT televisions, followed up by more of the same with Stringer, Sony was wrecked.

Everyone shits on Hirai, but the truth is that he has the impossible task of unfucking a decade of disastrous business

>>140452
Irrational got cut down because Bioshock Infinite, despite selling a lot of copies, didn't make up for the cost of 6 years of developement time.

>>131213
The problem is there isn't any affordable consumer equipment or editing, let alone displays. Sony can either fix that or keep dicking around with the largest studio facilities in Culver City and a line of Android tablets no one likes.

>>140654
The long development of The Last Guardian probably isn't doing wonderful things for Sony. Probably worse if it ends up being retooled entirely for PS4 and doesn't get numbers, but it's reached a point now where it would be more expensive to can it than it would be to release it and try and recoup the losses.

>>138811
>>138617
Uh I don't think this is bad, honestly.

This is them admitting that things are bad (which everybody knew) and doing something about it, which is good

>>139174
>The guy just died at the end of September and some of his heirs could simply have wanted to sell.

If I recall correctly this might be something cultural, if a relevant Japanese person dies its death isn't even reported immediately, a small time is waited and then yet more time until plans about "moving on" are done, something to do with Buddhist tradition.

I might perfectly be full of shit and wrong though

>>139793
>>Apparently it's about Sega's rise vs Nintendo and their aggressive marketing campaign in the 90's. Depends how good the book is and if it's one sided, however.

If this somehow manages to portray Sega as nice guys against the evil Nintendo I'm going to be legitimately upset.

>>140418
Meh dunno, Kaz is as American as a Japanese can be

>>140509
>but at the same time I wonder if there are any places where layoffs would just be necessary.

Sony is incredibly bloated.

Then you also have the whole AAA bubble thing which will eventually pop, leading to a fuckload of people getting fired, but I think that won't happen for at least another two years

>>140601
>>Everyone shits on Hirai, but the truth is that he has the impossible task of unfucking a decade of disastrous business

I don't think that anyone has considered his job easy.

I also think that if you have an enormous fire and your task is to put it off, throwing gasoline is most probably a bad idea

>>141412
>The long development of The Last Guardian probably isn't doing wonderful things for Sony.

That game has been in development limbo for so fucking long that I wouldn't be surprised if the whole "yeah it's still in development" was just PR

>>139164
>Only retards would buy into 4k anytime this decade.

You say that like they are in short supply.

>>142209

Yeah, they can admit things are bad, which is a positive step. But then they turn around and immediately make the short-sighted decision.

It's the gaming equivalent of "cutting the cleaners' working hours".

Phil Spencer has already tweeted saying that they are welcome to find a job there. Some of these guys were vets, they're gonna get scooped up.

>>142326

a job at Microsoft.* Figured I should be more specific.

>>134414
>one that can only be fixed by first party title attachment.

Don't forget about subscription fees. Sony have had a paid tier for their online service for a while now which wasn't needed for online play but gave users cloud storage, discounts on digital purchases and free games (that is to say, access to games which are free to download and play but are then rendered unplayable if the subscription ends).

With the PS4, the premium subscription is required for online play and since the launch of the console subscriber numbers have tripled. While they have not given firm numbers, a conservative estimate of five million users at roughly $50 per year would give them an income of $250m. Xbox Live Gold subscriptions hit 46m in 2013 so this could potentially be a very lucrative revenue stream for Sony.

>>142343
>While they have not given firm numbers, a conservative estimate of five million users at roughly $50 per year would give them an income of $250m.

Problem with this is that we have no idea of how much does it cost for Sony to run the service

>>142343
Long term (assuming there is a long term) they'll find an alright revenue stream from PS+ and their other services, but they're not likely to in the first year or so. The vast majority of PS+ users on Playstation 4 are carrying over their subscriptions from PS3/Vita, where they were supposed to be making them more profitable. They've got three consoles on the market that utilize the service, and though a single account is great from a consumer perspective, it's not as good a revenue stream as it could be.

Even if the subs have tripled, that means either they were only getting at most three million subscribers before PS4 launched and just about every PS4 owner is a new subscriber (which would be the ideal scenario for them, even if it is a small userbase compared to Live), or subs were extremely low and a much smaller number of PS4 users are buying it, the statement of "triple" subscriptions being a tactical use of the term to hide real numbers.

Premium subscription as a requirement for online play is a savvy business move, and I'm surprised Sony didn't jump on that bandwagon for PS3 to stem the losses made on PS3, but I don't know if it will be enough to save them now. The subscription/rental thing on PS+ is a good deal for consumers, but it does become costly over time, and the money really needs to be funneled into upgrading and expanding online infrastructure to better compete with Live and PC based services. Right now I believe they are using the same provider for it as Nintendo for their PS3 online service, which isn't brilliant, and will run into serious problems with large user presence if it's used for PS4 as well.

I wish I still had a PS3, honestly. Mine broke in 2009 (first refresh of the fat model without PS2 compatibility), I never bothered to replace it, so the amount of exclusives I've missed out on has gotten so big I doubt I'll ever find the time to play them between work and... more work.

>>140458
>>140469

Apple was originally protectionist but quickly figured out it's not in their best interest. Hence why it was huge when they ported iTunes to Windows and did things like Boot Camp and developer mode on iOS devices. They quickly changed their tune when they felt they could make money out of it and were incredibly agile. Jobs knew where the bread was buttered. Tim Cook is fumbling the butter knife.

Sony were even more protectionist about it with Mini-Disc and they also internally pressurized themselves with how much they were in bed with the RIAA. Even DNLA was met with dragging crying and screaming by the MPAA and Sony devices with DNLA ship with Cinavia DRM.

>>142254

Sony PR is probably cringing like fuck now the Variety interview has started to spread around since they managed to paint him as the guy that was going to turn around Sony.

Now he's guy that thinks he can turn around Sony by firing the cleaning crew and innocent game developers while building an executive roach motel in Culver City.

>>142524
A good analogy for Sony is the kid in the playground who tried to make everyone play his game by his rules, lost his shit whenever someone offered a new game or rule, and then blamed everyone else when he was left on his own for being a stuck up little shit. Now it's trying to bribe people to come back with candy, but the candy is expired, overpriced, and has the kid's name slapped on it.

I haven't slept since Monday morning, so that analogy might be a little off.

I think the success of the PS4 would turn the 9th gen to another 7-8 years of anti-consumer policies and unsustainable business practices.
I hate how some people are justifying the purchase of the next-gen consoles without any games of their interest by saying that it would lead to the console of their choice getting more games. When has blind brand loyalty ever been rewarded?

>>142776

Yep, the eighth gen is already doubling down on the worst aspects of the seventh gen. It's a bad time to be a long-time fan of console games. We won't be getting off this ride for at least a few more years, since the New Casuals keep dumping money into this system.

>>142871
>Yep, the eighth gen is already doubling down on the worst aspects of the seventh gen. It's a bad time to be a long-time fan of console games. We won't be getting off this ride for at least a few more years, since the New Casuals keep dumping money into this system.

Getting dangerously /v/ here but it's kind of related.

The market is catering more and more to the core consumer, if nothing terrible happens this gen, the start of the next one is going to be absolutely craptastic, if something was clear from this gen is that marketing sells consoles, you can expect everybody to market the shit ouf of their consoles disregarding what they actually are

>>142881

I'm not even sure there's going to be a next generation. The exit strategy seems to be cloud streaming services and Sony pushed up the timetable of that very quickly.

Also, JP results are in via official charts. 309K PS4 consoles and a shockingly bad attach rate on software. Biggest selling game unbundled like Knack was Yakuza Ishin at only 83K units. Units are OK but holy crap that attach rate is not good at all.

>>142980
>cloud streaming services

You should have seen the reactions of U. S. military members to the Xbox's requirements for Internet connectivity. No game company will ever be able to put absolutely everything on the Internet for the foreseeable future. If nothing else, there's this thing called lag...

>>142980
>cloud streaming services
I hate this idea so fucking much.

>>142994
I didn't think people put up with shitty touch controls on smartphone games.

>>142992
>>142994

Considering Sony had to one up every one else in levels of retard during the 00's on music and pictures regarding online. It wouldn't shock me if they tried it.

Oh and more news. 1,000 of the job losses of the 5,000 announced last quarterly report will be in retail and more Sony stores are to shut.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2014/02/26/sony-to-shutter-20-us-stores-cut-1k-jobs/

They are really going to regret that Hirai interview in Variety by the end of the week.

>>142980
Cloud gaming isn't viable without decent infrastructure, as OnLive's failure already proved, so I don't imagine it will be coming any time soon, and certainly not from Sony. No doubt if there is a ninth generation there will be cloud optimization, but I think it might be more in line with the Xbox One policies (current or original I could not tell you).

Software attach was always going to be poor for the Japanese PS4 launch; there's nothing they really want available yet. 309K is an alright number for the territory though, but if they were holding back stock for the purpose of this launch and that was all they had, March and beyond could be quite difficult for sales.

Was the price of Knack factored into the bundle at all? If not, they've just shot themselves in the foot with that attachment. Sure, the sales numbers for Knack will look good on paper, but it either extrapolates the loss on the hardware or writes down the software itself, putting them further in the red overall in both cases.

>>142244
I wonder exactly what type of people they're keeping on board. I know that one of the Naughty Dog devs left to go work at Retro Studios for Nintendo, saying how he didn't want to keep working on realistic games. Can't find the source on that specific comment right now, but there was this from a while ago:

http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=169816

And more recently, this:

http://nintendoenthusiast.com/news/retro-studios-hiring-something-brewing-nintendo/

Between that and Phil Spencer's comments on welcoming in whoever got kicked out of Santa Monica, what are the odds that Sony just handed off some employees to the competition?

>>142980
>I'm not even sure there's going to be a next generation.

Sadly, a lot of people were saying this last gen too, but we still got stuck with this craptastic eighth console gen regardless.

As long as the cinematic shooter gamers and mobile casuals keep putting out their money, this is gonna continue forever I feel.

>>143215
Very good odds. Unlike what /v/ and fanboy logic dictates, most people just follow the money. If Microsoft/Nintendo/PC devs are offering stable jobs, these Santa Monica guys will come running. I saw in the IGN comments section of the article (god help me I was bored) that some people think they'll put together their own new Sony exclusive studio. Because you really want to go running back to the idiots who just dumped your ass to give themselves raises.

>>143215
It's always interesting reading these things after all the doom and gloom that other game studios are experiencing. Nintendo's studios are actually HIRING and they just built a new building for the Fire Emblem devs iirc. Despite both Nintendo and Sony being unprofitable this year, at least Nintendo has some potential for the future.

>>143224
Do you think Nintendo just shits out "kiddie shit" too? Stop listening to fanboys (or stop being one because why are you even on here if you're going to be spouting that nonsense.)

It had a lackluster launch in terms of software but so did the PS3 and that recovered nicely.

Either way, anyone who doesn't believe there's going to be a PS5 are as dumb as fucking idiots who believe there wasn't going to be a PS4. Most of it is hopeful fanboy garbage and for the love of god take that shit back to /v/. This isn't some Nintendo reassurance thread.


That said, while Sony is in a terrible situation I don't believe they will actually die. Bankrupt, sure, but they could and probably will recover from that. Sony's a long standing company and I'd be surprised if they died and just that, died.

Either way they'll go in panic mode and drop their TV division which will ultimately lead to their recovery.

>>143251
That'd be Intelligent Systems. They got a new office, yeah.
http://nintendoeverything.com/intelligent-systems-now-has-its-own-building/

They're not the only ones though. Retro and Monlith Soft (guys behind Xenoblade and the upcoming X) got upgrades too.

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/07/05/monolith-softs-new-kyoto-studio-sounds-like-a-great-place-to-work/

http://nintendoeverything.com/retro-studios-moves-to-a-bigger-office/

There might be more, can't remember, but Nintendo's been expanding offices a lot lately. I'd imagine this was a contributor to their losses. Probably for the best though. They need the staff for more software output and general HD development.

>>143240
Wait, seriously? I'm gonna go look that up. Sounds hilarious.

>>143276
>Either way they'll go in panic mode and drop their TV division which will ultimately lead to their recovery.

They won't and they never will. Too much pride to admit they got bested by Korea and TV manufacturing built the house of Sony. They are going to go all in on 4K even if it kills them.

>>143276
I like you.
They're already in the process of spinning off TVs, into a wholly owned subsidiary mind, but it might be too late for that to save them. Their reputation has been damaged over the last several years thanks to poor management decisions that have led to huge financial losses across several departments, money they won't see again. It would be fine if it were some long term investment like R&D that the money had been spent on, but for the most part its losses on hardware.
They won't die, but Sony as it is now probably exist in a few years time. Insurance, components, mobile, gaming, and entertainment will probably last a while yet, but each in turn will either be sold or collapse in on itself if Sony don't sort their shit out.

>>143318
nah anon CES this year was obviously their last resort when it comes to TVs. The speech, the way they presented it. Their make it-or-brake-it moment. If it doesn't recover after all the effort they put into it they know it's dead.

>>143326
Vizio might have broken it, offering a 4K unit at a fifth of the cost of theirs.

so Sony is getting into VR now. This seems like another fad that Sony will put too much money/hope into. Basically, it's 3D all over again.

>>143356
It feels reactionary, as if they're only doing it to spite OR after they said PS4 lacked the capability to do their VR. I tried one of their headsets from a couple of years back, the ones that were meant to simulate a 55 inch screen running at 1080p. It was heavy, uncomfortable, and the picture quality left something to be desired. From what we've seen so far of this new VR thing, it will be a step backwards.

>>143338
Yes that will be an interesting turnabout. Sony is in for a rude awakening unless somehow shit manages to get good for them when it comes to tvs. I suspect the PS4's success and popularity is recovering the Sony name quite nicely but that's happened before with Nintendo and that was simply a fad moment and their brand went right back to the shitter.


>>143380
VR has always been their goal with their gaming division since PS2. I think it's anything but "reactionary" but it's probably going to be garbage compared to the OR because it's on a console and it doesn't have the wiz kid himself Carmack working on it.

>>143380
I just don't see the average consumer getting on board with VR. It's too anti-social and has an awkwardness to it when wearing it.

It'll get it's month or so of fame, but it won't catch on. Impressive tech =/= approachable tech. The average consumer doesn't like to wear glasses or any form of it when experiencing their media. The core gamer is going to have a positive reaction to it, but not even 1/3 of the people who love the idea will actually buy it.

>>142992
>I hate this idea so fucking much.

Don't worry, that only means you are human

>>143431

3D panels that you could re-use your cinema glasses on didn't even get traction over the active shutter TV's. I have a nice LG 3D panel and it does films well. Pacific Rim and Dredd look great on 3D Blu-Ray. But most of the time I'd rather watch in 2D because it's a hassle and readjusting the room for optimal 3D viewing was a pain in the asshole. 3D works great in the Cinema but even now it's waning (Also a lot of films are really lazy with it as post conversions and very few are shot with 3D in mind)

VR's great from an enthusiast perspective and OR's business plan is solid in not trying to be mainstream but Sony trying a mainstream VR push is not going to work. It's even more isolationist than 3D and I don't think the consumer's going to be as interested.

>>143251
>Nintendo's studios are actually HIRING and they just built a new building for the Fire Emblem devs iirc. Despite both Nintendo and Sony being unprofitable this year, at least Nintendo has some potential for the future.

As far as gaming goes, Nintendo comes from a very profitable gen and can afford to invest.

Sony and Microsoft, not so.

>>143544
Doesn't Microsoft have money to burn unlike Sony tough?

>>143544
>>143555
Microsoft can afford to burn money. I'm sure they're probably losing something on having Titanfall be bundled with the Xbone (and with that price cut in the UK).

>>143575

From what's been crunched. Margins are break even or even profit on xbones and the Titanfall code is a digital code as well which cuts down on expense considerably (No packaging or disc pressing costs) and I'd imagine EA's happy with it as well. I'd imagine it's going to be profitable. Especially if they are letting retailers aggressively price it (It was lower than the PS4 Infamous Bundle in the UK online yesterday for a few hours and it completely sold out).

Highly doubt they will take a loss on that, to be fair. If anything, if the hardware is making profit, it would actually make sense to start aggressively bundling titles with it. Color me shocked if they don't have a similar pack for Kinect Sports Rivals in April.

To what extent do think you losing Backward Compatibility hurt them?
It was a major factor as the why I bought my PS2

>>143759
Nowhere near as much as if they chose to not drop it instead

>>143555
Saying Microsoft can burn money isn't the same as saying they should or will.
The Xbox has been one giant money bonfire since it's inception and since "taking over the living room" is all but impossible for Sony and MS with the advent of mobile and tablets it has to actually start making money to prove why it should exist.

>>143759
Microsoft claim that only 5% of users care about backwards compatibility. If this is true then perhaps it's not hurting them as much as people think it is.

>>143885

Getting dangerously /v/ here. As said in the threads before it whenever someone brings up the comparison. Xbox has been a trojan for both living room and servers and the original was a loss leader on top of that. It's been in profit on the 360 and the xbone's first quarter posted more profit than Sony did as a company and the Servers division is the biggest growing profitable sector of MS. Xbone is the front facing consumer device for Azure. There's more at play than just living room dominance and their money on the original investment has been made well back (Never mind the whole "Bill Gates planned it as a loss leader" aspect. And explaining this is usually why /v/ craps its pants and calls us xbots. Sadly fact attracts shitposting).

>>139747
No, they're portraying Sega in a needlessly positive light in their up hill battle against the evil, tyrant Nintendo. The movie will probably end conveniently before the PS2 comes along and deals the final blow to Sega.

>>140529
>Tell me this. Is McDonald's still McDonald's if instead of selling hamburgers, it begins exclusively selling tacos? Or hats? Or financial consulting? The reason Sony exists is to sell electronics, that's their business, its what they've done since their founding. If the people working their wanted to work in a different industry, or more importantly were qualified to work in a different industry, they would. Companies that exist for the sake of existing and pursue any means of profit, to the extent of abandoning their actual business, do not last long.

Sony isn't McDonalds, Sony has been involved in other industries for decades under the Sony brand. Sony isn't (good) electronics to anyone but nostalgic fans and execs. Sony Pictures, Sony Music, Sony Gaming, and Sony Life are just as much Sony as the electronics division. More than that, these divisions have actually made money in the last ten years instead sucking it down their ravenous maws.

This isn't changing the company because they are failing in a desperate attempt to become something that makes money. Sony already changed years ago and this is just recognizing that they have changed. The problem is people like you at Sony that don't recognize that not only does Sony not exist for their electronics anymore but they aren't even good at it now. Their core competency is no longer in electronics, it's been a money sink for a decade, and they need to realize that things slowly changed at their company. Also there are no synergies between these divisions anymore that make it beneficial to have them all.

>Games

[PS3] Knack (First Limited Pack included) (SCE, 02/22/14) – 309,304 (New)
[PS3] Yakuza: Ishin (Sega, 02/22/14) – 138,158 (New)
[PS4] Yakuza: Ishin (Sega, 02/22/14) – 82,540 (New)
[3DS] Dragon Quest Monsters 2: Iru and Luca’s Wonderful Mysterious Keys (Square Enix, 02/06/14) – 72,350 (634,433)
[3DS] Kuroko no Basuke: Shouri e no Kiseki (Namco Bandai, 02/20/14) – 45,681 (New)
[3DS] Yokai Watch (Level-5, 07/11/13) – 35,125 (458,961)
[PS4] Killzone: Shadow Fall (SCE, 02/22/14) – 32,336 (New)
[PS4] Battlefield 4 (EA, 02/22/14) – 24,799 (New)
[3DS] Kirby: Triple Deluxe (Nintendo, 01/09/14) – 17,665 (457,796)
[3DS] Puzzle & Dragons Z (GungHo Online Entertainment, 12/12/31) – 15,092 (1,374,333)
[PS4] Dynasty Warriors 8: Xtreme Legends (Tecmo Koei, 02/22/14) – 14,356 (New)
[Wii U] Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze (Nintendo, 02/13/14) – 14,330 (50,047)
[PS4] Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag (Ubisoft, 02/22/14) – 13,862 (New)
[PS4] Call of Duty: Ghosts (Square Enix, 02/22/14) – 13,701 (New)
[PS4] Tomb Raider (Square Enix, 02/22/14) – 12,093 (Strong)
[3DS] Pokemon X and Y (Nintendo, 10/12/133) – 11,302 (3,961,624)
[3DS] Puyopuyo Tetris (Sega, 02/06/13) – 8,859 (67,204)
[PS4] FIFA 14 (EA, 02/22/14) – 8,808 (New)
[PS3] Mobile Suit Gundam Extreme VS. Full Boost (Namco Bandai, 01/30/14) – 7,763 (321,054)
[PS4] Need for Speed: Rivals (EA, 02/22/14) – 6,602 (New)

Consoles
Hardware Sales (followed by last week’s sales)

PlayStation 4 – 309,154 (N/A)
3DS LL – 22,253 (27,650)
PlayStation Vita – 16,857 (17,081)
PlayStation 3 -9,983 (10,226)
3DS – 9,898 (12,066)
Wii U – 8,407 (8,782)
PSP – 3,171 (2,944)
PlayStation Vita TV – 1,383 (1,267)
Xbox 360 – 241 (256)

>dat saving throw
http://io9.com/sony-wants-to-release-a-spider-man-related-movie-every-1531004830

>>145233
Hopefully it'll flop and we can see Spiderman in some Avenger films.

>>145233

After today, anyone who is questioning why we need to have a Sony general now has an answer why.

>>131152
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_PlayStation_4_games
you could have jsut said no instead of linking that. looking through that is just depressing

>>145386

Not him, but use this picture instead. And spread it around. It's an unbiased list, and 100% up-to-date (aside from Peggle 2 and Max, which I believe are getting releases on other platforms).

>>145256
It would take multiple giant flops plus Disney paying a shitload of money for them to get Spider-Man back. It basically has no chance until Avengers 9: We used all the interesting villains by movie 3 but we keep churning them out.

>>145475
How about you keep that console wars shit off of biz entirely instead?

>>145524
I don't see how it's instigating, it's merely an easy way to communicate how homogenized but sony and Ms are. Also it's early in the lifecycle so hopefully we can move away for ports soon

>>144018
>Sony isn't McDonalds

Thanks for the invaluable insight.

On another note, lets say that what you say about Sony's core competency is true, that electronics is no longer their deal. How does Sony go about embracing their new existence as a content provider/producer? They have tens of thousands of employees that have absolutely nothing to do with making movies or music streaming or selling life insurance. They've worked in their industry for decades and include some of the most talented Japan and the world over (like any company, that's not really up for discussion with your or anyone else's preconceived notions of the state of Sony's workforce). If its all dead weight, truly inconsequential to Sony's true business, do they cut it all? Lay off all 105,000 some employees that work on electronics (that number coming from 2013 data on Sony employee data, made for 71% of Sony's total workforce at the time). And what of the tech patents, which have been a steady source of income for the company for decades? Do you sell them off completely, knowing that your business model can't depend on patents that won't be worth anything in ten years time and won't be replaced by new tech created by an R&D?

By putting everything into entertainment, Sony must directly compete with Amazon, Netflix, Comcast/Universal, Warner Bros etc. Is their decade of experience and newly constructed business model prepared for that? Public opinion can't be too high for a company that abandoned everything they stood for in order to sell overpriced streams of licensed music and shove The Amazing Spiderman down our throats.

I could ramble like that for days anon, but tl;dr changing the essence of a company is about far more than feelings and existential crisis. There are a million things to consider, none of which reactionaries such as yourself would be bothered to think of.

Oh, and while you couldn't think of an exception to the rule I stated, I did think of one. Heinz.

>>145524

>Objective list of upcoming exclusives
>Console wars

What is wrong with you? It might as well be a Wikipedia list.

>>145475
thanks, much easier to read but still depressing

>>145732
>depressing
We must not be looking at the same list.

This is simple. You can short Sony and get margin called, or buy and come join me on my yacht a year later.

>>145475
Pics like this don't belong on /biz/.

>>145783

I was just answering that anon's question. ;_;
It's a non-biased list, I'm sorry fellow /biz/raelis.

>>145783
it is relevant info, i'd put it in a swot analysis ergo it belongs here.
Also metacritic is for shills

>>145758

>investing long position based on video game performance

We're getting rused, aren't we?

>>145814
I think it's fine, just ignore them.

>>146169
>implying that's my thesis
How about you post your puts and I will match it with every calls? I can put money where my mouth is.

>>145602
>By putting everything into entertainment, Sony must directly compete with Amazon, Netflix, Comcast/Universal, Warner Bros etc. Is their decade of experience and newly constructed business model prepared for that?

They are already doing this and have been for a long time. They have also been more successful at it than making tvs/mp3 players despite not doing that well comparatively.

Sony has no benefit from keeping them all together because synergies don't exist anymore and are often negative.

If it's truly dead weight it should be cut because those sections will literally kill the healthy sections. That is why these areas need to be separated from the other areas. They need to sink or swim on their own and not drown other areas when they go down. This has to do with entertainment as well, it needs focused management that can't hide failure behind the huge Sony umbrella. It's not like there is no worth in these areas! Their camera technology is doing well but it is sucked into the black hole with everything else.

>>145475
You did forget the next Smash Bros. under Nintendo's column, unless you seriously consider that vaporware. It'd also be nice to see upcoming releases divided by year.

>>146176
I doubt Sony's going to do well with PlayStation 4 without significant price cuts unless something with a little more market clout than their first party lineup has the same effect Metal Gear Solid IV had on the PlayStation 3. Isn't there a fifth one coming up? Shouldn't that be listed?

If it helps, I don't see Microsoft doing well at all because of their hopeless attachment to Kinect keeping up the price of their hardware with even less exclusives on the horizon than Xbox 360 had, but it's been pretty clearly established that not only are console sales unaffected by even really good games like with Dreamcast, sales and profits don't affect Microsoft's decision making, so it's obviously way too early to call either one pulling out of the console market.

>>146217
I think the list doesn't count titles shared with the 3DS as Sonic Lost World isn't listed for the Wii U, even though it and Smash Bros U are significantly different from their 3DS counterparts.

Also, MGS V is a multiplat for 360, Xbone, PS3, and PS4.

Some questions for you guys:
How did Sony's Management get so bad?
Would you say that it is similar to Sega's Exec status before they went third party?
How many total divisions does sony actually have, and how many are actually making a profit?

>>146217

It doesn't count 3DS/Wii U games, anon. Just like how PS3/PS4 games are excluded as well.

>>145814
I think the image is fine, and I've been looking for something like this to see where things are standing right now, but a lot of people from /v/ will take it as bait, and we don't want another flood of console wars shitposting to begin. All it takes is one moron there linking this thread and seeing that post, and the floodgates will open.

>>146217
Kinect isn't dead weight, more like sheepskin. Microsoft is pretty obviously banking on the spybox and whatever market info they'll gain from it. With that thing, it doesn't matter how little they sell so long as they sell some.

>>147481
The way they advertised it initially it seemed more like they were banking on the home fitness market, which the numerous just dance and Wii/Kinect/PS Move titles last gen proved can be a cheap source of revenue through both full title and microtransaction sales. We probably won't see many of those for a while yet, but they will come, and trends say they will sell, especially with this year seeing a push from Apple, Samsung, and Sony for fitness apps and accessories. If the PS4 camera was included in the bundle, as was originally intended, we might have seen a push come already.

>>146263
Sony probably started to go to shit when Nobuyuki Idei became CEO. He made some very bad decisions. Beyond that you have a company involved in very different markets that needs to work together. For example you need to satisfy the the music divisions desire for drm and the electronics divisions desire to support the current popular format. For the obvious /v/ members who are here they sacrificed an entire division's profitability to push bluray and other proprietary tech. Beyond that you have a company with so any competing interests that they can't react quickly to market changes.

It isn't similar to Sega at all because Sony is a company with its fingers in so many pies.

Sony's big divisions are electronics, entertainment, and finance (insurance). These can be broken down further and electronics specifically should but you can look that shit up yourself. Overall finance makes the most profit, entertainment makes some profit as well while electronics loses everything.

>>147481
>Microsoft is pretty obviously banking on the spybox and whatever market info they'll gain from it.

I don't even think analyzing the market through kinect is that feasible

>>148123
It would have been easier if it weren't for the backlash of always-online requirements.

>>148135
No what I mean is, Kinect can't even give you that much in terms of information.

I mean it's just a camera, the limb detection etc is pretty much irrelevant as far as analyzing the consumer goes, and you don't need kinect to find out how much of the time if the user using the console or not, you also have audio data but what are you even going to do with that? is the systen even listening 24/7?

I understand that the whole NSA scandal came in a bad time, but I also think that the whole spybox thing is not as realist as many people might think, it would be a ginormous amount of data to sort and seriously not worth it imho.

>>147481
>>Kinect isn't dead weight
It is when developers aren't using it and more importantly, it's the reason they'll never be on par with their competition in terms of pricing. It wasn't foolish to bundle it, but it was foolish to not make it optional.

I'm shocked they've sold anything in light of the fact that it's $500 and has relatively very little in the way of exclusive titles. Honestly, do people buy these machines for games anymore, or were they getting it for the cable box features?

>>148458
It's funny how people brag about the PS4 and Xbone having more games and better graphics than the WiiU, while the WiiU has a better game library (even if a lot of the games are TBA) and actually focuses more on games than unimportant multimedia features.

Does anyone have the numbers for how many assets were damaged or the losses due to ceased/bottle-necked production following the earthquake/tsunami from a couple of years back? I know it largely affected TV and component production, and I recall seeing an article about it six months after the fact, but I can't find it.


Also,
>>148458
>>148479
>>148153
>>147481
>>146217

Let's try not to get too off topic here, lest /v/ enters and turns this into a console war thread. Keep the focus on Sony, with reference to rival companies/strategies as is appropriate.

I don't want to say someone should start a new containment thread to discuss the rights, wrongs, and could be situations of the big three there, but it could make for some interesting discussion.

>>143885
Dude, mobile and tablets aren't taking over shit.
People still watch their videos on the big screen televisions, if not, then why in the hell are people still buying the damned things?

The consoles are litterally THE window to digital media for the living room.

>>143759
Horribly.
Lack of bakwards compatibility = lack of quick adoption because of no games. They have nearly a decade of games to play on the last gen and more coming up.
There's like..no reason to pick up the xb1 or ps4 other then being the hardest of hardcore and having more money then sense.

>>149050
Especially with the tail end of PS4 software being as hot as it was. It makes me fearful that we might see a wave of next gen ports over the next year to fill out the library, and cheaper though it may be than developing an entirely new product for the platform, it's a bit of a slap to tell the consumers, who likely already own the product, that they should now go and buy this slightly improved version. When the ports are coming from early in the previous console's life cycle it isn't such a bad thing, but if things like The Last of Us are going to get the Tomb Raider treatment, it's not going to breed confidence. Some will lap it up and spout that the new version will be the definitive version, but that honestly just feels like spin to justify shelling out again.

>>148109

Arguably it was the "Americanisation" of management and then the huge pull Music and Pictures had when they were at record profit where they could dictate to the other divisions. And since it was all protectionist to protect their own investments like Mini-Disc and UMD while also protectionist for the benefit of the MPAA and RIAA. That's where they faltered. The thread that was linked earlier that was a translation of a former VP's interview is fascinating stuff

http://archive.foolz.us/biz/thread/124639/

Sony closes 20 retail stores, laying off 1000 workers

>http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/02/26/sony-closing-20-retail-stores-laying-off-1000-workers

What does this mean?

>>149266

They are cutting costs by throwing out the low level workers instead of the management who put them in that position.

"Bad Management" is a running theme on why they are in this position across these threads.

Sounds like the SMM project got shitcanned because it had to be retooled after being too similar to Destiny and it became a mess. Four years of dev time too, that's LA Noire style development hell.

>>143215
>Between that and Phil Spencer's comments on welcoming in whoever got kicked out of Santa Monica,

No shit, it's easy PR for the little worm. Every publisher/developer who's hiring (which will be most of them) will be taking them on too, but they don't have to be loud about it because they have a reputation to salvage. Except for maybe EA. Hmmm.

>>149293

That first part is fine to discuss but we're hitting full >>>/v/ conspiracy posting on the second half of that post. Knock off the editorial, kid.

Is the white washing of Sony's current financial problems on gaming websites really in the control of Sony? Could it be done by the...passionate fans of Sony instead? I really used to respect those sites and believe Microsoft and Nintendo were doing terrible on that end. Now Im not even sure how Microsoft and Nintendo are doing overall.

>>149361
Yes they own Neogaf after all

i love my MMCD player!

>>149361
>Is the white washing of Sony's current financial problems on gaming websites really in the control of Sony? Could it be done by the...passionate fans of Sony instead? I really used to respect those sites

I'm not even going to enter into discussion of your actual question but just state that they seriously deserve no respect whatsoever, gaming press is a complete total joke

>>149361
It looks like a little of both. You know the saying; don't bite the hand that feeds you. Of course, sometimes they have to be a little bit honest in the face of public opinion (see Xbox One June through August last year), but more often than not you'll see some preferential bias coming through. That's why you see titles on sites like IGN like Xbox/Playstation correspondent, so at least they're acknowledging the bias.
As a completely off topic aside, were it not obligatory to read through that drivel for marketing notes, I wouldn't touch sites like Gamespot or IGN with a ten foot pole. Luke Karmali articles in particular piss me off. But, as there is no formal Australian game news site, my retailer insists on using them.

Worrying as it is, an anonymous board like this is seems like a more reputable source than a gaming journalism site. At least here there are some people who actually know what they're talking about, and are willing to engage in conversation about it rather than what fanboy instinct/monetary compensation demands.

>>149350
Sorry, I just really dislike Phil Spencer. He has the most punchable face in the industry.

>>149483

Industry and Hobbyist magazines are always somewhat protectionist. That Variety interview is a great example as they aren't really giving Hirai any fastballs on his strategy and only just questioning it. Though at the same time, since that's more entwined with "Proper" journalism than hobbyist as a trade publication so they aren't sweetening his comments and letting him damn himself with his comments in some places (It's caused a bit of a shitstorm in the film industry areas online like Deadline because they see Sony Pictures management as the problem, not the cleaning crew. Considering things like the current VFX industry shitstorm and planned protest outside the Oscars, it was ridiculously bad time to pull that sort of comment while the lower level workers are in fear for their jobs).

You also have a unique situation in videogames where you will have a rabid fanbase willing to defend your decisions to death and try cause trouble for other fanbases. Then you have a cycle of problems like this guy explains in the video. I know a bit more /v/. But it explains how bubbles form and how violently videogame fanbases react when the bubble gets popped by real news

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNYUg9D2PJ4

Everything is somewhat protectionist. Not even the trade magazines wanted to mention the low margins on PS4 sales but it was clear as day on Bloomberg and the Financial Times when they reported it that the PS4 didn't save Sony.

>>149596
We can go a little /v/, it is on topic, just as long as we don't go full /v/tard.
I suppose objective media really is nothing more than a pipe dream. That Shokio guy dropped a lot of good points about the detriments of tribalism, I imagine he'd be right at home in this thread when it came to talking about the Games department.

I learned something the other day from my retailer, actually, can't believe it slipped my mind until just now. The retailer uses reps from different companies to help sell products on the showroom floor (each store at the moment has a Samsung, Lenovo, LG, Microsoft, Apple, and Sony), paid by their respective companies, and apparently Sony are phasing them out. It's small news, expected with the closure of Sony stores and downsizing of customer service centers (the former closed in Australia a while ago), but it is something of note. It's a shame too; the girl who worked at my local was great quality, and now she's moving into another retailer as a checkout clerk.

>>149384
>>149430
>>149483
>>149596
Thank you for the info. The websites that came to mind were actually Gametrailers, the Escapist, Neogaf and Destructoid. I went to a few others to just get a general consensus. Theses were a few sites that I visited that claimed to be legit, ya know? But before coming to 4chan I thought something was off. I visit /v/(Yes its chaos in there, but reasonable. /v/ doesnt claim to be legit.) than /biz/ and I got far more information on the ups and downs about the industry I love than any gaming site has. It is disheartening learing and accepting that fact. So I thank you again /biz/.

>>123703
You know shit is fucked up Sony wants to run Spider-man into the ground.
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2014/feb/26/spider-man-new-movie-every-year-sony

>>149839
They need a cash cow, and Spider-Man has half a century of stories they can adapt, so it makes sense. That says nothing of the potential quality of the films, but they can see how Disney/Marvel can now churn out 2+ films a year and make decent bank out of it. If it weren't a matter of pride and paperwork, I imagine they would push for some involvement with Avengers in the long term. Of course, Disney could just be waiting for the right moment to snatch up the IP themselves, which would be the savvier move on their part.

>>149888

The problem is they might run into the Lionsgate problem where after having years of cheap sequels and high return for Saw. The fifth one was so bad it caused a backlash even though the sixth one is considered the best sequel in the series and they had to can the series early despite it being still profitable due to the low budget (99% of the films were practical effects than CGI which amazingly ended up with them saving a ton of money and caused a huge backlash when they were using CGI touch up). Ditto with Paranormal Activity. Sequels are getting canned or going DTV because the revenue declines.

One bad Spidey like the third Raimi film. Franchise eats dirt next year. It's a dangerous strategy business wise and there's backlash against it already from the fanbase because they don't want declining quality.

Though Disney's probably saying "Sure" then waiting to pounce on getting the rights back as soon as there's a disappointing installment.

>>149361

Sony DOES work with marketing firms, and gaming "journalism" opinions are easily bought for cheap. Plus you have particularly enterprising fanboys like the ones on Neogaf who go out and parrot their opinions everywhere.

One thing Sony does well is gaming marketing, nearly every "gamer" out there legitimately believes Sony is making tons of money and Nintendo is doomed. Whatever Sony is doing in that department, they're doing it right.

>>150047
>source

There are a lot of diehard nintendo fanboys out there.

>>149839
Yeah... That is kind of odd.

Spider-man movies at that pace, when the last franchise didn't do so well...

Also, Venom and Sinister Six movies.

Seems pretty risky to me, but then again, they are probably trying to reassure Marvel that they want to keep the license.

>>149755
This in a way surprises me, 5 years old everybody on /v/ already knew game journalism was a ginormous joke, what the hell happened?

Was the influx to the board THAT large? The lurking period is completely gone, it's a disaster in terms of community

>>150078
I know this is off topic, but I like /v/ right now. Its a demolishion derby of sony, nintendo, pc fans bumping and yelling at each other. Gaming sites are a cult that have a prophet who hands out 'special' drinks to everyone so the prophet can manipulate their mind better. Than said prophet is in a hidden bunker violating every possible human rights possible. I honestly do not know how I got out of that. I was drinking that stuff for a long time.

>>150062
Yes but you rarely if ever see gaming "journalism" catering to their tastes. Unless a site is specifically a Nintendo fansite then it's probably not reporting anything positive about Nintendo's business side.

>>149361
its not really relevant. Games media talk about games. They dont talk about the woes of the Surface Pro either.

>>150332

If there was woes about the Surface Pro to talk about they would (Hint: The Pro 2 is a pain in the ass to find as it's that high in demand) since the Pro 2's considered a rather neat little gaming device by PC blogs. It's the Surface RT that was the flop and the original Pro was discounted in line with Amazon's price at Best Buy a few weeks back.

What the thread is talking about is how the "Blow was softened" on the reporting of Sony's financial quarter and if it was a conspiracy. The answer is likely no. But they don't want to piss off or scare the audience so they soften the blow and the Sony Fanboys police it out the reporting out of sites like N4G and Reddit. Especially as the financial media can be very harsh.

>>141412
Starting to sound like The Last Guardian is Sony's Shenmue.

>>151987
I heard some people bought the PS3 for the Last Guardian and/or FF13 Versus. Fucking retards.

>>149040
Not so much now with many TVs/Bluray players adding in media features themselves. Chromecast also gives competition in that it streams from your computer to the TV.
Honestly, there's no reason to buy a console for digital media unless you're also going to play games on it.

Does anyone have opinions on the new ad campaign Sony touted out of few weeks ago? They seem to really want to emphasize the sort of core philosophies that the brand has stood for over the years and point toward a refocusing on the old "inventor first" mindset that made Sony distinctive.

Despite being something that isn't selling anything other than the brand, I thought it was a pretty impressive piece. It pulls the right sentimental heartstrings, hearkens back to a successful past and suggests that the Sony of old is just around the corner. Perhaps more importantly there was humble air to it, a sense of humor and genuine optimism that speaks a lot better than the pretentious Apple bullshit or ever so quirky Google. This article goes into it in detail, there's the main "anthem" ad and then stuff I haven't seen on TV yet for Sony's VR headset and waterproof mp3 player. I figure its an interesting talking point as it definitely speaks to how Sony wants to be perceived, but also how they hope to conduct business in the future

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyokM38u0U0

http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/ad-day-sony-traces-its-long-winding-road-art-and-engineering-154978

>>153820
It was something that I'd expect from apple.
I really would be disappointed if they went under, footprints of giant man

>>153820
It's probably the best way to advertise their brand at the moment. There was a time when they innovated, and they had some truly great products, but not so much now. The further they can push attention away from the bad management decisions of the last decade, not to mention the poor financial position they've found themselves in, the better.

Posting that has reminded me of this, so thank you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgTLx93vyrU

This feels a little like the last decade of Sony advertising.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fIIqFpZdy0

>>153820
>>154027
That ad was good. However, the "good" playstation ads makes them look like pretentious douchebags.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdW1OuZ1U0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukgISn3P2nQ

Still those are still better than these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqkNPcUMffU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0G0LlXv-nyI

>>153820
Decent ad. It primes you right from the start to think what they are doing now is special by bringing up the Walkman, the time they were at their most influential. Outside of general brand awareness it isn't worth much though.

The ad has one problem as does Sony; it advertises everything. Movies, music, electronics, etc all are Sony. You have a vague impression of Sony instead of something of theirs you are actually interested in. It takes a bad experience in any of these areas to make them all look like shit. For example, Coca-Cola owned Sony's movie division before they did but they didn't call it Coke Pictures, they kept the Columbia Tristar name and kept that shit separate.

>>154471
You could almost say they're using their name on the film brand as a veiled threat, as if they're saying "Oh, yeah, we own these movies. We could probably make some more of your favorites if you bought our other products too, just FYI. Or, you know, go without. One hand washes the other,"

>>153820

Another problem is they are associating all their classic products with the products not worth a damn in the nostalgia grab and your average consumer is a lot more informed than they think. They aren't going to associate a Bravia with a Trinitron while watching on their Samsung panel so it's basically saying "Hey all those awesome products we made? We're making really shitty products now! Please buy them!"

Damned by association, really.

>>154975
Their recent Bravia TVs(W6,7,8,9) are actually good from what I've gathered from reviews but the higher end models(W8,9) are probably overpriced

>>155046

Problem is that you can buy the higher end Samsung and LG panels for cheaper and you are getting the same quality as the higher end Sony panels (Mainly because the panel itself is usually a LG panel). They review good because they are as good as the top brands due to the fact they are the same as the top brands.

It's the Sony tax really. They still can't get rid of that image problem and this week was really clear that Sony went back to old Sony very quickly after the PS4 seemed to be the tentpole of the turnaround and the Z2 was best phone at MWC because "It's Not Samsung" (And we still have to see if those premium rumors on the S5 are true). That Variety interview was hugely misjudged timing. The VFX industry and a lot of film crew are PISSED about that Variety interview because Hirai made it clear who was expendable and who wasn't. And it sure as fuck wasn't the execs who put them in that situation and right before the big Oscars protest as well.

>>155098
Their TVs have the best input lag so they gotta do something right with the software
Granted the difference is probably minuscule to most people but still

More smoke. Sony's selling their old Tokyo headquarters now

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/02/28/struggling-sony-plans-sale-of-old-tokyo-headquarters/

Something really is going on over there. It's very weird.

>Sony bankruptcy watch thread
>Another green day

Every time. I laugh at stupidity of /biz/

>>155537
>thinking these things happen in a day.
You should maybe read the thread instead of shitposting.

I want /v/ to leave.

>>155537
You do realize we're talking about the current state of Sony, and not just counting down to bankruptcy, don't you? Contribute something of value, lurk, or leave.

>>>/v/

>>155537

>Red on nik every morning due to sell offs
>Green on Big Board instantly on bell
>Goes back Red on Nik

[Shorting Intensifies]

>>155534
I didn't realize they still had headquarters to sell.

Do they have a lot more property they can keep hocking to cover losses?

>>155565
hey, keep being mad while I make money

>>156038
They have more properties and assets than Sears, and Sears bankruptcy is still no where in sights

>>155570
My 60% gains beg to differ

Even sold all my Feb and March calls for Oct. While you retards keep bickering about stupid shit I'll keep raking in the dough, since I actually know what I am doing

>>155537
Still doesn't change the fact that Sony is losing money, and there is bad mangement within the studios.

>>156066
>>156074
>>156084

>Hey I'm being retarded and calling on a company with bipolar price that shits itself every financial report!

If I had time and money to waste, I'd stick puts on 12-14 by July. But I don't.

>>156159
Then don't invest in it. Honestly having a Sony general thread that spams for weeks is just retarded. Your voices here is meaningless, do your own DD and make your own decisions.

>>156176
When you actually have money, I will buy every call to your puts. I've been lurking these Sony threads for a while now and mostly all I see is garbage with third grade level of analysis.

Have a good day

How's the Vita really doing? I know it did horribly at the start but what's the consensus here on it right now and how Sony is treating it?

>>156239

OK son. There is always money to be made taking advantage of poor management and wreckless sell offs instead of proper restructuring and re-organisation. Just don't come crying to us once it has another drop because of bad management.

Oh. And the thread will continue as long as Sony is flailing about desperately.

>>156334

Like an accessory. It got completely outdone by Smartphones. Especially since the biggest reason for PSP hacking, Emulation, is even easier on Smartphones. So there's no point in Vita for a handheld emulation device.

>>156334
Sony is treating it like a PS4 accessory.
Outside of Japan, the Vita is pretty much nonexistant outside of being a Panty Quest machine for weebs.

>>156239
If you had any confidence you'd write his puts.

>>156239
You're welcome to go make a "praise based Sony, nothing wrong here" thread, true believer, while we continue to discuss the bad decisions the company has made and continues to make that have caused consumer and investor confidence to wane. Well done making money out of it, though, if you're not just trying to blow smoke.

>>157322
>True believer

Stan Lee/10

>>156239

>I've been lurking for a while now, but contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion or providing a counter viewpoint to anything brought up
>I LAFF AT U, LEL, I TROLL U WITH MA PICTURE, SEE? LOOK AT MA FILENAME. U MAD BRO? U MAD???

Since you have a basic grasp of the English language and financial sense, you can't be dumb enough to be a troll. Are you perhaps a Sony employee? A reputation manager?

>>157365
>Are you perhaps a Sony employee? A reputation manager?

Worse, he's from /v/, just filter him like everyone else already has.

>>157689

It was evident since his SWOT analysis was "5.3 MILLION! BUY! BUY! BUY!".

>>157748
Well, as it seems we're beyond the bump limit and nearing deletion, I'll close with this; Sony as we knew it is in trouble, but they are at least taking steps towards remedying that. It probably won't ever be the juggernaut of industry that it once was, but as it streamlines it should become a healthier overall company.

Well done to >>>/v/ for keeping the shitposting to a minimum.

>>159778

We have arguments on if it's the correct way and if management know what they are doing though

Sony watch will probably return on Sunday before the bell on the Nikkei.

>>159778
>I'll close with this; Sony as we knew it is in trouble, but they are at least taking steps towards remedying that. It probably won't ever be the juggernaut of industry that it once was, but as it streamlines it should become a healthier overall company.

They just need to swallow their pride.

>Well done to >>>/v/ for keeping the shitposting to a minimum.
I think the ID system had more impact on that, especially since we can filter the shitposters.