/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>13975960
Why do I like skelly thots so much?

>>13976022
because they remind you of young children

Another example:
- 1000 validator nodes
- each staking 3,175,000 FTM

Cost per year:
1000 x 3,175,000 x %15 = $476,250,000

I find those figures mind-boggling. HOT is totally self-sustaining in comparison for example.

>>13976022
Cuz you can just throw them around, they weigh too little and have too little muscle mass to fight back, and it's a lot of fun to overpower them when they do.

That, and their tiny little bodies get more easily deformed by large phallic objects in their holes. Bulging is a sign of a good little whore

>>13976034
stop projecting and acknowledge my dubs
>>13976055
checked

again you can't post a thot image without attracting the degens... sad.

>>13976089
bro just sell at mainnet. hopefully it gets listed on binance cex and we can ride the wave then but either way sell on mainnet. just look at link and every other cypto mainnet

>>13976114
i am just curious how they want to make it profitable

>>13976114
When is mainnet?

>>13976139
Q3 or something, maybe later

>>13975960
FTM was always a scam my dude

>>13976157
it's fucking alarming no one here can logically refute there is a problem. i am glad i haven't invested in this desu. i almost did.

>>13976051
I see, so you dont care about FTM at all you just wanted to shill your shitcoin. Got it

>>13976215
Yup these HOT fags seem to be scared of Fantom. I've even noticed some of the less brainlet HOT bag holders starting to add FTM bags as a hedge. Tells you something.

>>13975960
Fantom bought a shit load of FTM from the market for this very reason at under 200 SATs. These will be used to pay rewards to validators.

>>13976235
Can you refute OP’s comment? I can’t

>>13976215
>>13976235

no. i don't give a shit if you hold HOT or not.

I just want to know:

Who is paying the node validators 15% staking rewards per year?? This is real money, it has to come from somewhere? This problem scales with adoption and seems hard to fix.

Please answer my question. That's all I want, don't distract from the issue. Just post a answer that is straight to the point addressing the issue at hand.

>>13976251
doesn't make sense. why did the foundation buy back tokens? why didn't they mint more in the first place to keep in the reserve? i don't see how this is a good thing anon. furthermore, how is FTM addressing this issue LONG-TERM?? Even if they held like billions right now, the funds would still get depleted after X years. The foundation needs a cash flow or revenue stream to even remotely make those staking rewards feasible imo. So far I have not seen any income stream.

There is this Fantom Pay thingy, but they said it's economically infeasible too because of all the fees (blockchain fees, bank wire fees, other fees) so they'd have to open a real bank and not just partner with existing banks. I don't see that happening for the next 2-3+ years.

>>13976268
Kid, Ive seen you in 2 threads already shilling HOT. You arent as smart as you think you are

>>13976409
please don't buy HOT, it's a shitcoin.

now, that out of the way: refute my concerns, if you don't respond i will assume you can't. if you respond off-topic again, i will assume you can't too.

>>13976433
>3B market capitalization
I hope FTM had this big cap lol.

They have 2B FTM circulating now but the total supply is 3B. It will have around ~10% inflation rate annually using that 70% 15% assumption.

>>13976433
I dont know shit about the tech or whatever behind FTM or HOT. I just know you are a HOT shill.

>Guy asks a serious question
>FTM bagholders can't even answer his question and just resort to namecalling

YIKES.

>>13975960
i'm a bagholder but i haven't read the whitepaper. i don't care about the tech and the logistics, i want them to market it well so i can flip it. so far they've got a lot of people convinced it's the next big thing. as far as paying staking rewards, my guess is that will somehow come from ftm not in circulation. or they print more and long term value fluctuates

>>13975960
2, 1

>>13976530
well i thought it was 3bn, maybe it's 2bn.. not really relevant though to the main question.

>>13976583
wait. are you saying the foundation will keep printing new tokens forever? that's not good, why is no one ever mentioning this?

>>13976647
i own HOT and wonder if FTM is worth a gamble. if comparing two projects makes me a shill, then i am happy to be a shill. don't pretend this place isn't 99% shills anon, it's a fucking joke really. especially because like 50% of /biz participated in the HOT ICO a year ago. You must be new here to not know that. Summerfag confirmed.

>>13976758
How many more threads are you gonna make faggot?

>>13976775
>still nothing else than distraction and name calling
please defend you coin or i will ask this question again. i am not fudding, i am just curious how the foundation is planning to come up with a cool $300 million every year or even more. That's way over $800k per day anon. Let's be real.

nice FUD thread. Just Bought 300k more off some fucking idiot.

>>13976797
>asking a legitimate question, not shitting on the project in any way
>FUD
please answer my question.

>>13976793
Are you really asking why does staking work?

Umm retard. Staking reward isn't a set amount in fiat its a percentage amount earned from transactions and usage and also they have a 3rd of supply to feed to Nodes. So what's your fucking point? Why not ask Dash how their nodes are profitable. Nodes earn from transactions you dipshit.

>>13976827
so you are telling me everytime I send someone FTM, the node operator gets a 15% cut of that? Is it like BTC tx fees just that the fee is 15%. That's ridiculous.

>>13976818
It counts as FUD whenever you make 5 different threads about it you moron

also just for the newfags. all the master node projects become exponentially unprofitable over time. DASH might be an exception, but why are there almost zero MN projects in the top 30?

Exactly because of the concern I have. High rewards = High fees = Low usage. I have no better explanation.

>>13976854
>seething

>>13976055
tru

Thanks for this thread. Almost bought into the FTM hype but put it all in HOT instead.

>>13975960
>IS CHINK COIN A SCAM??
Yes, of course.

>>13976900
Nice fren. I can't say anything negative about HOT, they are on the right track. I wouldn't be surprised if we see $0.01 soon and $0.05 EOY.

>>13976905
Well, I am still waiting for someone to come along and refute my concerns in a civilized manner. So far we have only seen name calling and shitposting. I hope this doesn't end as a "FUD thread" or "HOT shill" it really wasn't supposed to.

>>13975960
we are fucked if we don't find a good answer to this.

>>13976268
Think again. It's not real money it's a token the market puts a value on. It's not worth any real value until it's sold.

Like I said Fantom bought a bunch of FTM from the market, and they will probably continue to do so while it's cheap. They'll use this to pay out validators until the transactions provide enough revenue.

Let's say FTM is worth $1 in a year and 300 million ftm get paid out to validators, at a market value of $300 million. If Fantom paid 1 cent for those 300 million FTM, it actually only cost them $3 million not $300 million. They also have other reserves for this, so I'm reality, it doesn't cost them anything.

>>13975960
>So we have $315 million in staking rewards that have to be paid out to validator node operators. In just ONE YEAR. Where is the money supposed to come from?

Block rewards will be distributed evenly over 4 years, with rewards being issued daily. Given that event block creation speed is a function of network size, the network will distribute rewards per event block as follows:

Event Block (reward) = (daily block rewards)/(number of daily event blocks)

>>13976758
I really feel like your trying to fud, but it's not working brainlet. Maximum total supply of 3 billion, they can't keep minting FTM forever. The point is by that time there will be enough transactions and use of the Fantom Eco system to pay the validators even after that 1 billion FTM is depleted.

>>13977195
>Average Returns

Validators will earn fees through three mechanisms:

Returns (Validator) = block rewards + transaction fees + delegated fees

Delegators will earn fees through two mechanisms:

Returns (Delegator) = block rewards + transaction fees—delegated fees

Given total block rewards are 996,341,176.87 FTM, with the current circulating supply being 2,178,658,823.13 FTM, the distribution of block rewards over a 4 year period yields the following returns on average for validators and delegators (based solely on block rewards):

>>13977212
Based anon. Finally someone that doesn't have his head up his ass.

>>13977172
your argument is neglecting the fact that the price doesn't matter. you wanna know why? because the staking rewards are pegged to the price. the costs are scaling exponentially with exponential network growth.

But even if it were true, then you'd basically argue that the value increase in the token will subsidize the staking reward payouts? For that to be possible the foundation would have had to cash out all tokens into FIAT on the day of the ICO and wait for the price to drop to 25% of the value, correct? I can't imagine this is a sound business strategy. Like did they really hope to buy back cheaper? And did they actually manage to 4x their stack at the expense of ICO holders?

If yes, then we are still having the same issue: no inherent cash flow. In other words, it is only a matter of time until all the foundation funds are paid out to validator nodes. Even if they had 100 billion USD, the core issue remains the same: the business is not self-sustaining.

>>13977212
okay the first constructive post. good. will the staking reward decline after the first 4 years or get abolished completely?

>>13977260
One of the goals of Fantom is to remove FTM from circulating supply as seen at:
>The foundation has been actively purchasing FTM on the market over time in order to increase our block rewards, essentially removing it from total circulating supply.
https://medium.com/fantomfoundation/fantom-improvement-proposal-1-proof-of-stake-fip-1-17bbbe225e70
that's when something called "Fantom Gas" (FTG) comes into place

>There will be an internal price “oracle” for the FTG/FTM exchange rate. FTM holders will vote on the exchange rate.

>>13977357
thank you, i will look into this. finally someone with a brain, this was a painful exercise.

>>13976022
>>13976055


the girl on the left is katie ramer instagram is ramerkatie

get these skelator hussies off my screen

>>13975960
right one. other than that this is a faggot thread for pajeets only - did not read. sage

so what am I missing?

>>13976200
okay i read op. yes OF COURSE IT IS UNSUSTAINABLE. this shit is a fucking scam. the nature of the shilling tells you as much. those stupid "payouts" are just about pumping the fomo before the final dump. don't be stupid faggots.

>>13978142
yeah what i thought too. i mean those 15% sound juicy af but then you start thinking. wait a minute. where does the money come from, a little fishy.

at least the team is open about it and has admitted they have not found a solution yet. i give them that.

>>13978124

>>13977400
Stfu and get out of our thread. Fandom will make us millionaires in less than two years stop fudding and fuck off mate

>>13978256

you don't sound too confident, do you?

>>13978256
why would i buy any coin now? if i wanted to FUD i would have dropped my concern right around the next major BTC correction. I mean everyone is expecting BTC to retrace soon, I'd just have to wait for that if I wanted to buy "cheap FTM" kek.

Some/all of these fantom shill replies are clearly being paid for. Merely confirming what I already suspected was happening. How are these fucks going to pay node operators when they spend so much of the budget spamming biz???

>>13978382
Bro you got schizo. Fantom literary spreads it’s own word by making big moves and having impressive tech... no need to pay shills

>>13978426
they actually said the opposite on the AMA thing yesterday. care to elaborate?

>>13978463
Bro I didn’t listen to it desu. What did they say?

>>13976051
>>13976215
>>13976235
>>13976409


they are popping up in every fantom thread since yesterday and agressively shilling their coin

>>13978959
i am seriously questioning my fantom bag right now, pajeets don't matter ignore them.

>>13979057
>i am seriously questioning my fantom bag right now

why?

>>13975960
No. Whales are buying bsv

https://medium.com/fantomfoundation/fantom-improvement-proposal-2-proof-of-stake-by-the-numbers-fip-2-a02404144322

Here is the answers....now fuuuuuuck off.

>deluded FTM bagholders
>Feetcoin fags
>amerifats being mad at completely tnatural women proportions
>even random satoj pajeet
Good thread anon, good thread, HOWEVER...
Two words are missing to assblast everyone: Hedera Hashgraph

>>13978179
It's not money they are paying it's tokens. The first 4 year's rewards are to incentivize network growth. After 4 years there should be enough TXs to reward nodes

if you're unironically arguing for either of your two shitcoins instead of enjoying the thots, you will never make it

>>13979359
My four year old brother has a hotter body than these two “women”

I'll make an post educating you biztards on FTM node fees later

>>13978124
A brain

>>13976315
You do know that ftm is an eth killer and scale high right ??

>>13976034
damn

>>13977195
Andre?

after 4 years it should have enough tx volume etc to sustain. Its same as polka/dfinity/cosmos

>>13976022
Well since you're at /biz/ you probably want to fuck Vitalik raw

>>13975960
all women are whores

Pic Rel have almost the same problem

>So this was a thread made only to shill HOT
Fuck you faggot OP, FANTOM makes your tranny nigger queercore shitcoin O B S O L E T E

>>13975960
You're neglecting that if there was no stake you would have no problem. If everyone sells fantom it's 3 billion dollars, where does that money come from?

The pool of fantom people buy from is 315 million, that's what's on the market. At 3 billion marketcap, lets look at coin market cap, that puts us at EOS levels of demand which is actually 3.7 million daily volume.

The realistic perspective is that with so much locked up price gets nibbled at profits. Many nodes will be accumulating for more nodes. You can't expect everyone to market dump in one day.

EOS has 3.7 million daily volume and that would be 1.35 billion volume a year. And Fantom will have a regressive curve, which means less and less to worry about with more demand.

Either way, the circulating supply is limited, a 3 billion mcap would be much higher, the less fantom being exchanged is a raise in price. With the same demand.

There is a diminishing return of fantom, similar to btc. Mining didn't kill btc. Staking won't kill eth or fantom.

>>13980753
Fuck thank you. I was itching to write a detailed answer when I read this earlier this morning.

The 4 year node rewars supply is only to kickstart node.count on the network.

Network activity will increase over that period of time and provide TX fees to reward node operators.

On chain governance will allow stakeholders to make adjustments once the reward supply is exhausted: let's say reward % drops off once the reward supply runs out, which cause node count to drop. A vote can be had to reduce the node staking ng requirement by 50% incentivizing smaller holders to become.node operators who dont mine running a node with let's say 5% rewards.

Token increas le in value also means that getting 5% yearly reward from staking 1.5M tokens valued at $1 each for example remains attractive for many holders.

Node operators would also be in theory able to vote for supply inflation (not tla preferred solution) or to increase/decrease network fees.

Thisnis decentralized governance, capitalism, supply and demand, game theory... the network finds a balance and staking remains profitable for operators.

Again, the 4 year reward supply is to jump start node count until node rewards are sustained by network activity.

Now, someone please add this based anons explanation to paste bin to counter those who take advantage of those with lesser knowledge to fud. >>13980753

>>13980892
This. Dont fall for the fud buy and hold. Easy

>>13981158
*Market buy like a real man would do and hold.

>>13975960
>>13976051
>>13976089
>>13976127
>>13976148
>>13976200
>>13976268
>>13976315
>>13976433
>>13976758
>>13976793
>>13976818
>>13976842
>>13976861
>>13977003
>>13977244
>>13977260
>>13977400
>>13978179
>>13978310
>>13978463
They dont need fucking fiat buckaroos you dumb fucking nigger faggot. You get paid in FANTOM
Now gtfo and go back to plebbit and act like a crypto expert for the rest of the summer
> I hope this doesn't end as a "FUD thread" or "HOT shill" it really wasn't supposed to
FUCK YOU PAJEET

>>13981441
BASED