/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>13943097
you dont actually think any of the fud is true do you? lmfao newfag

>>13943097
nope. its just the regular brainlet chainlink fud of the week but this week they are spamming it extra hard because of the mainnet price dip.

Not really hence bringing up this discussion as i see people panicking about KYC nodes. Just wondering if i was missing anything to be worried about.

>>13943097
LINK is open to sybil attacks if most node operators don't KYC.
That is the problem here.
That is why I sold.

>>13943097
I just wrote decentralization != anonymity to BTFO RLC shills. Did you really have to make a whole thread about it?

>>13943148
>>13943111

identity + reputation + staking + TEE = defence in depth

some kind of sybil resistance + staking can allow chainlink jobs to reach consensus on arbitrary external events by strength of on-chain penalisation alone.

>>13943163
The vest solution to prevent sybil is kyc to net let 1 authority control the network

>>13943163
You are retarded. It's fixed by staking. A sybil attack would always cost more to execute, than the profit made by the attack, because if the contract if corrupted the staked linkies are lost.

>>13943097

KYC literally means there's a centralized authority that has to approve you. Sergey will have all your IDs which he can sell to the highest bidder if he wants and there's nothing you can do about it. How is that decentralized?

>>13943174
sorry then, i haven't seen that brought up anywhere so far, must have missed it.

newfags: 95% of link FUD nowadays comes from link holders (be it ironic fud or serious fud from discord groups trying to dump the price etc)

the other 5% is from newfags or people shilling their other shitcoin

enough said, stop replying to their threads

>>13943184
well when will i stop getting penilized by the fucking team? riddle me THAT!! HUH?!?!?

/biz/ have been drooling on LINK for many years. It's time to let it go, anons.

>>13943201
depending on the parameters of the aggregation/penalisation contract, if the attacking nodes dominate it could be costless.

>>13943148
S T E A L T H
T
E
A
L
T
H

>>13943163
Automatic matching is only for requests made on chain. Manual selection is for off chain services by reputation providers. There will be plenty of both as per the currently implemented network design.

>>13943197
cope
>>13943201
False. Chainlink solely relies on reputation to try and prevent sybil attacks. Meaning, KYC is the only thing preventing a sybil attack. LINKs would not be lost during a sybil attack because a sybil attack makes it so the false answer is true.

>>13943202
It’s not. But since there’s no reputation system set up yet it’s the only way to onboard reliable data.

>>13943097
>kyc for, say, the first 250 nodes
>then open up for everyone but with a limited number of new nodes per day/week/whatever
>when everything works fine drop all regulations

I don't see the big problem

>>13943281
>it’s the only way to onboard reliable data.
RLC's dOracle powered by PoCo says otherwise.

>>13943283
basically. starting slow and not letting some whales rule the network.

>>13943283
>non KYC'd nodes eventually outnumber KYC'd nodes 10000:1
>bad actors perform a coordinated sybil attack
rip ur monies

Considering the amount of negative attention around Link in this space it would be pretty dumb to just let anyone into the network at first

>>13943264
>>13943297
>>13943319
You literally replied to everyone ITT except me because you either don’t understand what I’m talking about or have no rebuttal. Which is it faggot?

>>13943202
that was always the case, Chainlink does not know how to make decentralize oracles (they are brainlets). I'm a dev and known that for years hence why I've been fudding Link for years for the scam that it is.

>>13943319
Thats why we have reputation once they open nodes to public with threshold signatures

stop. replying. to. the. fud.

they had 2 years. let them miss out.

>>13943283

let the node ponzi begin

>>13943281
>But since there’s no reputation system set up yet
kek, there is no such thing as decentralized reputation. It's an unsolved computer science problem, and some fucking simpleton philosopher ain't gonna solve it.

SELL NOW YOU FUCKING RETARDS. LINK WAS ALWAYS A SCAM. THEY HAVE ZERO CLUE HOW TO BUILD REAL DECENTRALIZED ORACLES. WHY DO YOU THINK VITALIK PISSES ON SERGEY?

>>13943355
>Decentralization != anonymity
False. Anonymity and decentralization go hand in hand. Centralization is the complete opposite of anonymous. KYC is centralization. Therefore, Chainlink relying on KYC means LINK is or will eventually rely on centralized nodes.

>automatic matching vs manual selection cope
And both are open to sybil attacks. You literally have zero clue what you're talking about.

>>13943400

Trustless =/= KYC

KYC is centralized authority, if your system uses KYC then you can target attacks and even doxx them, there is a reason your address should NEVER be attached to your real identity

the point of the LINK tokens was providing security, but they can't do that so they just KYC the nodes to washtrade their own link supply to their friends making a ponzi where you buy tokens and KYCed nodes dump gains on you

>>13943111
Imagine being this delusional. Lmao. If you havnt sold yet you deserve to be forever poor.

>>13943461

If sergey doesn't drop the kyc bullshit in 2-3 months (i gave him three or two months instead of just 1 week because i love chainlink but facts are facts) then BE WARNED that it's a full vaporware scam

>>13943461
>if your system uses KYC then you can target attacks and even doxx them, there is a reason your address should NEVER be attached to your real identity
Fucking bingo.

Imagine thinking KYC is a good thing. Imagine relying on KYC to prevent from sybil attacks.

Reeeeeeeee kyc bad!!!!

>>13943552
before this news you faggots would've been anti-KYC as almost anyone in crypto and now since it affects your shitcoin you cope-defend it.
yikes

>>13943437
>he doesn’t realize the network is what needs to be decentralized
>he thinks the node runner’s identity matters in this


>cope
>you have no idea what you’re talking about
Good arguments. Explain to me how manual selection using an off chain listing service with KYC can be prone to a Sybil attack? Oh wait you’re retarded.

>>13943503
starting like this just to set up a foundation as well as prevent some ico whales from owning the network from the get go.

I had my kyc skype interview with Rory today.
I forgot I was not wearing any pants and Rory saw my wiener when I stood up to fetch my ID.
Safe to say I won't recieve a call back.

>>13943575

This lol. So much pure C O P E itt it's amazing.

>>13943581
The node runners are literally what runs the network you fucking retard. When the node runners are hand selected with KYC to try and prevent sybil attacks your nodes are centralized. Holy shit you're actually a retard.

>>13943586
You refuse to understand that eventually if most users refuse to optionally KYC it will open LINK up to sybil attacks quite easily because it would need 51% KYC'd nodes to prevent sybil attacks, which isn't going to happen.

>>13943594
Kek
T. No pants

>>13943621
>if I say cope repeatedly it’s an argument
Definitely gonna make it

>>13943581
>Explain to me how manual selection using an off chain listing service with KYC can be prone to a Sybil attack? Oh wait you’re retarded.
Explain to me how a centralized entity controlling a list is decentralized? Oh wait you're retarded

>>13943665

Cope more bro.

>>13943163
well the KYC is only temporary and eventually reputation and staking will take over... but I'm not sure why I'm explaining this to you since you didnt sell and you're just shitposting as a retarded nolinker

>>13943202
Based

>>13943645
most people will not be setting up nodes. a bulk of the link in circulation will be staked in established ones. these pools will be incentivized not to let any kinda of malfeasance happen since collateral will be lost in the future on big time financial transactions.

>>13943755
I sold the top near 1.40.
I knew it would dump, this news will make it dump even more.
The KYC being temporary is even worse. It means it'll only be sybil resistant for a limited time. The staking mechanism will not prevent sybil attacks.

>>13943788

except we have only 21 nodes max for maybe a year or two :^)

>>13943755
No such thing as decentralized reputation. It's an unsolved problem. Saying it's using KYC until we implement decentralized reputation is literally scamming you. Anyone can do distributed centralized oracles with KYC, it's something a few pajeets could code in a weekend. There's no innovation, simply scam.

>>13943788
>most people will not be setting up nodes
Right, because they would have to KYC, meaning LINK is going to be centralized either way.

>relying on only "trusted nodes"
good way to get fucked when those actors find a way to make money on this false trust.

>>13943812
no, it's because it's a technical pain in the ass to a majority of people to maintain a node.

The biggest redflag you fags don't see is that they literally had 2 fucking year developing and they still don't have a fucking test version related to staking mechanisms or intel sgx, literally they made some aggregation in two years which is simply dividing by the number of nodes (lol 3) another number in a local variable, it's stupid

>>13943833
Even then, if that's the case, it'll definitely be centralized.

>>13943837

Anyone with literally 10 minutes can retrieve and aggregate numbers from different apis, and faster than chainlink too, and printing the result in a ethereum block isn't a big deal either, the main feature was node reputation and staking and they haven't even started that

>>13943837
Sergey is literally just fucking hookers with the money. He has no clue wtf he's doing. There's a reason Vitalik and no other legit people associate with him

I fomod at $1.20 and resolved to never sell. My only regret is not discovering this gem before

t. newfag former nolinker

>>13943792
very kind of you to stick around having lengthy discussions about the project even though you sold and no longer have any skin in the game

>>13943869
I just want all of you link retards to understand that you're betting on the horse with a broken leg.

>>13943890
and the best part is, you won't listen, and you'll lose all of your money. :)

>>13943847
i think you underestimate how much competition will spring up like entities like linkpool. think of companies opening custodial staking services like coinbase, gemini, etc. big time incentivization to maintain a reputation as a data provider as the price of link sky rockets in the future.

>>13943645
I dont understand why you feel KYC nodes affect decentralization. Nodes are selected based on reputation under automatic selection.

>>13943919
>I dont understand why you feel KYC nodes affect decentralization
Who do you send your KYC application to? a SINGLE FUCKING PERSON.

It's kind of like if you had to send your passport to Sergey to start using BTC. It's all decentralized, except Sergey can cut you off any time he wants.

>>13943919
The reputation system doesn't matter if every trust-able node requires KYC. If every trust-able node requires KYC, then it is centralized and open to doxxing. Most if not all node operators wouldn't want to be doxxed.

>>13943097
KYC is necessary because of the potential for a Sybil attack. Without some form of KYC an attacker could just register a shit ton of Nodes under fake identities, build some reputation worth them, and then attack the network with fake data.

Sergey talks about it in his blog post

>>13943959
And that's why chainlink is NOT decentralized, is a scam and was a scam from day 1.

>>13943959
and that's exactly why it's fucking bad.
Holy shit it's like they're talking about why it's bad but refuse to realize it's a bad thing.

>>13943959

Hmmm so you are saying Sergey is satoshi and like BTC he made Chainlink extremely niche at first so it became secure before it became usable? Holy shit absolutely genius im buying right now

>>13943943
Hence decentralization =/= anonymity.
Yeah the team knows who's operating the nodes but they dont control the results the node delivers nor how well it delivers. And this is where reputation comes in. Under automatic selection, nodes are chosen how well they perform (reputation). A node may be kyc'ed but if its uptime is poor for example, then itll obviously be the bottom of the pecking order.

>>13944072
Decentralization is pseudo anonymity. Therefore, with KYC centric defense, LINK is not anonymous and is therefore centralized.

>Yeah the team knows who's operating the nodes but they dont control the results the node delivers nor how well it delivers.

You are contradicting yourself.
The team knows who is operating the nodes because they ultimately control who is operating said nodes, therefore they are indirectly controlling the results of the nodes.

Reputation does not matter when the results were rigged from the start.

>>13944072

>they don't control the results the node delivers nor how well it delivers

except with the KYC anyone can get the data and then dox them and force them to do whatever they want

>>13944072
Imagine this scenario:

I try to KYC myself. Chainlink says your KYC is not good enough for us, we're not adding you to the list. Oh no, I'm blocked.

Chainlink is 100% centralized and is 100% scam.

>>13944111
sergey literally says in the blog that moving forward, non kyc compliant nodes will be added.

>>13944122

That's great, so, eventually, if KYC isn't dropped like in half a year, you would sell?

>>13944122
>a thousand non kyc nodes get added
>now open to sybil attacks

>>13944122
OK in this case I will make 1000000 nodes and fuck everything up. His "reputation" thing is a scam. There's no solution to decentralized reputation. It does not exist anywhere on earth. Sergey lied to make money. Simple.

>>13944136
>>13944156
i'd be a fool to sell even if i had philosophical problems with what they are doing, but that's not going to be the case. 1000 chink nodes with small stakes and zero reputation reporting different data than a slew of bigger, more reputable data providing nodes will get btfo pretty quickly. there is a reason link will be used as collateral for the transactions the nodes are authenticating.

>>13944219
>resorts to "muh it'll be used" cope
Enjoy your eventual sybil attack. It's quite funny that RLC actually beat LINK to working and trusted oracles and you're still here acting like there's not real competition.

>>13944169

don't be stupid, there are solutions for that, but they aren't easy either

>>13944219
So are you saying that reputation is decided by Stake size? You are aware that Sergey owns 65% of the supply. Plus probably 50% of the rest of the supply is held by 5 exchanges.
Staking does not make Chainlink decentralized, it makes it even more centralized.

You are a fucking brainlet and deserve to lose all your money on this.

>>13944232
rlc has already bent the knee from what i recall. their hype of v4 or whatever the fuck it was from their telegram reeks more of a scam than any kind of kyc foundation ideas you've gotten from the blogpost.

>>13944237
No, there are not you fucking retard. Find me one case of decentralized reputation anywhere on the internet, I'll wait. It's an unsolved computer science problem. Sergey and his brainlet team has no clue how to solve it and scammed their way into 32mil

>>13943097
>Chainlink KYS Nodes
about time

>>13943097
Jews can find kyc’Ed node operators and put pressure on them through to do what they say.

>>13944272

i will solve it, give me a few months, screencap this

>>13943142
Read no further than this anons comment.

>>13944232
>Believing RLC is useful.

This alone show's you're a goon who doesn't understand anything about the real inner-workings of smart contract and automation.

Chainlink is an exceptional example of a quality product with a strong stable philosophy behind it, it will flourish and make those with strong hands and an understanding of the extremely useful use case it will provide rich.

See you in a years time when RLC is abandoneware and chainlink has made more lambo's then a factory in Sicily.

>>13944232
Imagine being so insecure in your investment you go to every thread on this board vomiting baseless FUD against someone who isn’t even a competitor. The absolute state of nolinkers.

>>13944259
not entirely. other factors like uptime and accurate data reporting are factors of reputation. the 65% will be given fintech companies to incentivize node network creation. insurance companies, banks, stock exchanges, news outlets. there will be lots of competition to be top providers.

but whatever anon, stay poor.

Decentralized oracles are a meme anyway.
How are they supposed to deal with fake news.
Not even KYC or reputation helps with that.

Coingeek is "KYC'd" to be Calvin Ayre, and yet it claims crap like CSW confirmed by US copyright office to be Satoshi by being given the Bitcoin copyright.

And depending on who you ask, faketoshi himself has a high reputation. That would make oracles confirm that he's Satoshi because he says so.

All I see Chainlink becoming is a hot mess of fake news, being manipulated to get contracts to pay out when they shouldn't.

I don't see it holding up like when held against game theory like bitcoin does.

>>13944331
>not entirely. other factors like uptime and accurate data reporting are factors of reputation
kek, so who monitors and provides this uptime and accuracy data? That is an UNSOLVABLE computer science problem you fucking brainlet. If you're not a dev, shut your fucking mouth and listen to people smarter than you.

>>13943163
Wrong. The larger the network, the more difficult it would be to sybil it. If the network is large enough to aggregate a response from 2k nodes, 1k of them would have to be colluding in a malicious manner in order to game a contract. This is still under the assumption that there is no staking, as staking would prevent any finacial incentive, any amount you gained from sybling the network would be lost in escrow that the malicious node put forward before accepting the contract.

When the network is small and in its infancy, a single malicious node operator could game the outcome of any contract he chooses, which is why KYC/node vetting process is necessary.

As the network grows, KYC becomes an impossibility, and won’t be needed anyways as staking/reputation will replace it as a automated system.

>>13944382
>Wrong. The larger the network, the more difficult it would be to sybil it. If the network is large enough to aggregate a response from 2k nodes, 1k of them would have to be colluding in a malicious manner in order to game a contract
running 1000 nodes is trivial you fucking retard. A proxy cost 3c a day. I can run 100k nodes for 24h for 3k. And that's the legit way. If you have a botnet, that's free.

You need to shut the fuck up and trust people who are actual devs, you don't know what the fuck you're spouting.

And staking is irrelevent. Sergey owns 65% of the supply and the exchanges own the rest.

Anyone can hack or treaten Sergey, steal 5% of his supply, ten run 100k nodes with 5% of the coins staking for their 100k nodes.

Link is a centralized shitcoin, Kyc lol what a shitcoin, it will dump hard after the mainnet, sell the news

>>13944424
Do it then

>>13944467
I can't, Sergey will never remove KYC because there is no such thing a decentralized reputation and the "larger the network" thing is a lie to fool brainlets into giving him 32mil to fuck prostitutes.

>>13944424
Wow you sound like you know exactly what you are talking about. I’m sure your proxy will allow you to sync and spin up a thousand different Ethereum nodes aswell as a thousand different link nodes on your super computer.

Please stop acting like you know what you are talking about. You’ve never once typed a single line of solidity, “dev”.

>and staking is irrelevant. Sergey owns 65% of the supply and the exchanges own the rest.
Wew lad what an intelligent comment.

You know what bud, let’s “hack” sergey’s tokens, and start dumping on these idiots. I’m a dev and I know how to hack into metamasks mainframe.

>>13944508
>Wow you sound like you know exactly what you are talking about. I’m sure your proxy will allow you to sync and spin up a thousand different Ethereum nodes aswell as a thousand different link nodes on your super computer.
You just need 1 node and to tunnel into 100k proxy you god damn brainlet. I know exactly what I'm talking about.

>>13944365
>t. pseudo comp sci man

the aggregate network can resolve this.

>>13944535
kek, no it cannot without an consensus algorithm that no one knows how to solve. I recommend you kys, is it even worth living when you are this dumb?

>>13944508
He's not wrong. 65% of link is centralized.

>>13944527
You don't know shit, faggot.
You missed out sub $1 links and now you're asshurt that you'll always be poor.

>>13944575
I've been buying crypto since 2015 and am currently all in. Just no on Link, cause I've known it was a scam since I first skimmed the white paper 2 years ago.

>>13944559>>13944589

wew. look at all your posts and the mindless fud. imagine being this ass blasted you missed link. either that or you 're trying really really fucking hard to accumulate more. lol

>>13944527
And how would you hope to sybil the network with your 9 proxies if you staking a token with a limited quality?
You will gain no finacial advantage.

>>13944617
here's LINK's defense to it. Part of their defense is REAL WORLD IDENTITIES.

Since an important aspect of our problem definition—real identities—is a part of the off-chain world, some part of the solution should also lie in that domain.
>some part of the solution should also lie in that domain.
>some part of the solution should also lie in that domain.
>some part of the solution should also lie in that domain.
>some part of the solution should also lie in that domain.

Y I K E S

>>13944625
so part of their defense is building something centralized that defeats the purpose of having a blockchain in the first place and scamming investors out of 32mil. Pretty cool for them

>>13943111
>>13943177
>>13943400
>>13943755
>>13943788
>>13943799
>>13943811
>>13943833
>>13943855
>>13944033
>>13944111
>>13944122
>>13944288
>>13944300
>>13944322
checked. everything's fine.

if dubs i get a gf

>>13944677
fucking checked mate.

>>13944677
>if dubs i get a gf
nice

>>13944090

Just because the team KYC's a node operator doesnt mean theyre looking for someone to be in cahoots with. We dont know the factors that would be considered for the KYC. But i would wager that the team intention is just to weed out malicious operators, other than that, proper node operators are fair game which as I've mentioned,would be decided by reputation on the network.

For doxxing node operators, that is out of the hands of the team. Aside from the team advising basic identity protection, this aspect truly lies on the individual/group. Its common sense not to tie your address to any personal information,its that simple.

>>13943142
What dip?

>>13944677
Checked. Fucking FINALLY anon Jesus this has been going on for days