/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>9933
awaiting stories of doom. deliver

Fracking will be Australia's next big industry.

We have a huge fucking portion in North WA. We simply just do not have the current infrastructure to make it profitable just yet.

>>9933
NEWCREST MINING STRONK!

>>10006
>Fracking will be Australia's next big industry.
Which company would you suggest to invest in to profit off of this?

>>10006
If they frack in W.A. , I will be burning tires n the streets. Yes lets fuck wit hthe water tables in a water parched land. No you fail. also lets kill sharks!

Got a mortgage that will be payed off in about 5 years as far as debt goes.
It's a little hard since only my wife is employed at the moment and 90% of her salary goes towards the mortgage payments while I eat through our savings.

>>10050
They will rebound. Possibly a good buy. Gold price and AUD is working for them now.

>>10096
that is how I imagine half the population in this country live. 70 - 90% goes on mortgage. The rest on ciggies

>>9933
Are you guys chinknada2.0 yet?

>>10137
Op here.

and "yes" to your question

>>10069
Fuck knows. BP would be a good bet since they have refineries in perth, brisbane and financial centres in Sydney and Melbourne.

But it's all about who can make it profitable the quickest. Therefore even a small company if they have the wit can flog the big companies.

>>10171
I just did a google search and Buru energy came up. I wouldn't invest in them *yet* but after they make some serious plans to start their fracking I'll invest in them.

>>9933
PROPERTY DOUBLES EVERY 5 YEARS

>>10188
Also look at metal manufacturing and mining since oil mining takes metal.

Ausfag here gonna leave this shithole ASAP.

>>10208
>it's now 2003

>>10209
I'm in gold mining at the moment (NCM better be strong by June like I was promised...), dunno about metal besides Rio both going strong.

>>10214
Let me guess, you pay too much tax?

>>10070
>Giving two shits about fracking
>Not supporting desalination of sea water for fresh water
>Not supporting more dams for hydro-electricity and a buffer against droughts and floods
>Not supporting nuclear power

Yeah, nah, you're a cunt

>>10244
Are you a mining engineer, or some lower echelon office slave?

>>10284
Sorry, I meant I'm invested in NCM.

No, I'm currently between uni and a real job at the moment, I'm using some inheritance money to practise stock trading. My idea is that I learn as much now with the stakes low and then I might be skilled enough to be a wise investor when I'm getting a real wage.

>>10305
>stock trading

Are you so fucking dumb you think you can make money doing that? Might as well be gambling.

>>10214
i'm right behind you.

I have some contacts in RIO....no new projects. Nothing in the pipeline. Massive oversupply of iron ore coming up (check out Chinese port inventories). I'm out.

Australian economy will keep contracting to 1-2% growth per year, which is our long term future.

Can we please work on getting rid of welfare? Particularly welfare for single mothers and fucking old people.

>can get a full pension while owning a 1-2mil house; don't need to mortgage it or anything

>single mothers bringing in $1400 a fortnight from centrelink, why would they even fucking work?

>>10244
>Let me guess, you pay too much tax?
No. I pay 0 tax. I want to leave once I get my education because this country is a literal shit hole.
Where is the high-speed rail?
Where is the fiber to the home Internet?
Why is our only export iron ore?

>>10350
Funny that. I went to centrelink today to see if I was eligible for youth allowance because I have to live away from home to go to Uni.

I was counting on
>if you live more than 90 minutes away from Uni by public transport
Apparently they forgot to mention that was only for rural areas only.

>you can prove independance if you have worked more than 15 hours a week for 2 years.
Which I had done. They forgot to mention that was 2 years AFTER secondary schooling.

My parents apparently earn too much because centrelink counts loss in investement as profits and parents are currently haemorrhaging money.

So, if I left school at 16 and worked 15 hours a week for 2 years and not going to Uni. I could get $500 a fortnight.

It's fucked. They give money out to people who will just fucking abuse it and encourage mediocrity.

I go to work 24 hours a week, and studying full time for an economics degree. Apparently I'm not worthy of some help.

>>9933
Please explain.

Nah man, only shit if you live in a mining state or Victoria, but they can just fuck off, sell em' to america for some quick cash.

>>10521
How are the parents losing money? Property investments?

>>10521

Yeah, it's disgusting. I actually think youth allowance needs to be pumped up -- If ANYONE should be getting money without working it's the people who are spending their time trying to improve themselves for later in life (even if it was just some form of HECS that allowed you to use the money to buy petrol etc).

Instead, kids who do dick all are getting more than twice what the kids who are studying get. It makes no fucking sense at all.

>>10554
Op here -

There are 0 new projects in the resources pipeline. It may feel good if you are working for a miner who has an established plant or operation. But there is NOTHING new coming. Take a quick look at the engineering sector for your canary in the mineshaft.

>>10371
>fiber
>HSR
>only export is iron

retard/10, get out of my country.

>>10584
It'll be shit because it's a huge industry that is scaling back, but it won't really effect me here in the agricultural industry. No I'll leave that to woolies and fucks that think fracking is an A+ idea. Lets just destroy the soil forever! Brilliant!

>>10659
The fracking crowd are generally young liberals who have never seen a downturn and would like this country to turn into yet another winner-takes-all Amerifat land. To be honest they have clearly already won. Farmers don't quite have the big swinging dicks like Gina does, nor the ear of Rupert Murdoch.

>>10231
lel i like this guy

>>10695
swear to god gina would have us all in shackles if she had the chance.

She might just have that too with "no, we aren't bringing work choices back, this has a different name" tonygang in power.

>>10521
Your doing it wrong nigga.

You just say that you're constantly fighting with your parents and cant keep living there - guess what requirement that fulfils?

Boom. You're on the link.

You dont even need to have a good story and its 100% ok to do this even after you've applied and been rejected.

Depending on what city you're in consider if its worth it - in Sydney if you want to rent a room in a student sharehouse it will cost more than $200 a week in rent alone and punch holes in your remaining bank account.

>>9933
time to invest in altona
>no jobs=good labour pool
>no toyota=no component manufacturers
>no component manufacturers=empty warehouses

>>10305
>spelling 'practise' with an 's'
Ma nigga
>>9933
When the August Labour Force Survey came out last year I remember there was a slight decline in the unemployment rate (mainly because increased casual jobs). Now that the unemployment rate is on the rise I'm worried.

>Property is going bezerk but only the speculators are buying
Negative gearing

>Manufacturing is long dead
Goods sector jobs are disappearing causing more demand for service sector jobs; meanwhile Government is increasing Uni placement caps causing extra demand for service jobs and an even bigger unemployment bottleneck

>TFW when worki in retail
>Business is low at our store
>Store closing seems inevitable
>No degree, 30 years old with only 10 years retail experience and $11,200 in savings.
>Job market is abysmal

Whelp. Future looks bleak.

>>10371
i suggest you have a look at http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/meisubs.NSF/log?openagent&5368012b.xls&5368.0&Time%20Series%20Spreadsheet&86E9FA3EC38C982DCA257C76000D90D4&0&Dec%202013&06.02.2014&Latest

>>10975
Fuck man.

I was just saying last night at the shopping centre,... "glad i'm not in retail". But to be fair, its ugly everywhere.

>>10521
Student allowance is a joke. When I went back to uni I was planning to drop back to 25 hours a week from full time. Until I realised that if I work more than 8 I'm effectively working for $10 an hour because of the tapering off over $405. Needless to say I only work 10hrs now. Australian government encouraging lazy cunts like me to be lazy since 19xx (data needed)

>>11018
It is but I think the only reason our store remains open is the owner is fucking loaded and has other business interests and so is able to weather the lean months where profits are minimal. I'm sure when that the second that changes and he had to dip into his own pocket for one month we will close. I manage the store for them and it's like they expect me to pull customers out of my ass. There just is no customers at the moment and I've reached a point where I have no idea how to bring them in short of selling stuff at a loss which is pointless in the first place.

>>10975
Why do you have $11,200 in savings?

I earn 6 figures and I don't have $11,200 in savings. The pathetic interest you're getting from the bank isn't worth it m8.

>>11068
You could try a strategy of selling 1 item at a loss to encourage people in to the store, where you then hit then with other offers - shit like insurance that's worth nothing.

>>11070
>Why do you have $11,200 in savings?
>I earn 6 figures and I don't have $11,200 in savings. The pathetic interest you're getting from the bank isn't worth it m8.

I literally have no idea what to do with it. I decided that I needed to start saving instead of constantly buying shit I didn't need and so began to put money away. Now it's just there to help me survive when the store closes and I need to look for another job. What would you do with it?

>>11092
Yeah, but it's not a sustainable business model. And definitely not the kind of margins that are going to pull us out of the hole even if we do manage to upsize every customer with useless shit.

>>11106

Would depend on your circumstances. If you think there could be a home price crash some time within the next 4 years I'd at least be putting $6000 a year in a first home saver account.

>>11155
Which will be what? $4,000 grand or so interest on $24,000 after four years? Would be better off gambling the money.

What are the current benefits of being an Australian citizen?

>qualified business consulant

>>11460
you get to stop the boats

>>11242

Yes, around 4 grand.

>Would be better off gambling the money.

There's no easy answers, no get rich quick schemes... I'm sorry.

>>11607
There's just no joy in this life. Sometimes I feel getting a TEFL qualification, taking my savings and selling everything I have and moving overseas and teaching English abroad for a few years just to get some next experiences and perspectives. I'm too much of a pussy who likes security to do it though.

tl:dr:
Cunts are fucked

slightly longer version
>Dole is full retard, people who need it barely get enough, bludgers are shitting money
>Current PM is awful, most of them are but especially abbot
>Too many people, not enough jobs
>higher cost of living means higher wages which means outsourcing work is insanely cheaper, leading to even less jobs

>>11745
This guy is walking around with his eyes open

>>11745
This is all true.

Australia is fucked m8

The Australian economy is based on a balance of printing our money to create inflation, and countering it by selling our resources/property to foreign investors.

However the theory goes, if we do both of them simultaneous as fast as possible, we can make a lot of money so our politicians can spend it inefficiently.

>>10558
Parents bought two investement properties right before the bubble burst.

Plus stocks bought in 2007, plus my father who runs a mortgage broking company is almost run dry.

>>11745
>Current PM is awful, most of them are but especially abbot

I know he's a fuckwit like everyone in parliament and will eventually do something to send our economy down the tubes but at least give him a chance. It's only been a few months.

>>13380
they already tried to cut penalty rates m8.

If that's anything to go by this soon, we'll see the minimum wage scrapped by december

>>13394
>If that's anything to go by this soon, we'll see the minimum wage scrapped by december

I do hope you're not trying to be a Keynesian on /biz/

>>10281
>Giving two shits about fracking
Legitimate concerns, water tables are important, wait until it's been implemented for a few decades on a large scale in someone else's country before jumping on the bandwagon
>Not supporting desalination of sea water for fresh water
Good to have the capability for emergencies, but really too energy intensive to be practical for anyone who isn't an Arabian Gulf oil state

>>10371
Everyone I know who says this has never actually been overseas.
And they all come home broke in a year or so with a new appreciation for how shit the rest of the world is.
Those of them that could get Visas to emigrate in the first place, that is.

>>13574
I absolutely loathe people that cite internet speeds as a reason to leave.

That is so petty. May was well leave because it's too hot amirite?

Stop complaining you fucking faggots. 26yo here feels good to be rich. No government help or inheritance needed. Made over 1.3K whilst I was sleeping today. This is the Australian way.

>>13646
Too bloody right. You made that money yourself right?

>>13646
How much did you start with?

>>13587
Yeah we have shit infrastructure (in some areas) but we still have a better quality of living than most countries.
High speed rail would be nice but... How long would Sydney Melbourne take? Five fours? It's an hour by plane, HSR is great when you can get from Brussels to Paris to London in like two hours, even then it costs almost as much as the plane.

>>13666
Only started taking my finances seriously since Feb 2013.

>>13678
How feasible is HSR anyway? Remember, 22 million people. France alone is triple that in an area comparable to Victoria.

also

>tfw Adelaide
>tfw will not have HSR till year 3014

>>13646
What do you do?

>>13678
I work in a global multinational company. We've been told that they need to lay off 500 jobs, we've lost our annual bonuses and the annual wage adjustment has been frozen too.

On top of this, direct sales have been slashed in favor of services, all for the pursuit of an arbitrary number for shareholders.

On the flipside, stupid useless bullshit expenditure still happens all too frequently. Frustrating to watch.

>>13699
It's not. Australia is too large and not densely populated enough to justify it and isn't capable of supporting the kinds of population densities you'd need to justify it.
It's a real shame because a south east coast line going Sydney-Canberra-Melbourne would be great, but I just don't think it would be economically viable.
I hope I'm wrong about that, because it would be great, but I just don't see it happening

>>13743
It's more the capital cost, maintaining it would be a cinch. Not that we wouldn't fuck that one up either.

Australia has some hard times ahead, maybe it'll blow a hole big enough in the market that small business can pick up the slack a little.

>inb4 woolworths domination

>>13722
man you can clearly see hes trading currency

I'm going to study mechanical or electrical engineering, is there a future in this country for me?

>>13834
Plenty. Although civil would be a better choice.
The amount of infrastructure work we still need done is monumental.
Also with the fracking business, you'll see big companies pouring money into Australian bonds to get this shit done.

>>13834
Yes, this is short term bitchin.

Ok lads what's the situation, how long until we are a 100% Chinese subsidiary?

>>13863
Uh, what.

Fairly sure China ain't give two shits about us when they have other neighbours to tend to.

>>13886
They're devouring our farmland, property and businesses quite happily.

>>10102
Was a good buy at $9

>>13900
since when is investing money to build infrastructure and mine resources = devouring

>>13932
Since xenophobic.

Please explain

Something that always gets me about 'the future of the Australian economy'... is how the EEZ and 'aquaculture' is being ignored.

>EEZ
>less than 1% of potential
>employs 1% of the Australian workforce
>...yet makes as much money as the agriculture industry (approx $50B/y, involving 1.6M jobs)

>>13932
lol
>investing

and who does that help?

hint: not Australians

>>13863
11% agriculture or 5% Australia's landmass is foreign owned. Bye bye.

>China
China will have a housing crash likely in the next two years, flowing onto their shadow banking dark wizardry etc etc blah around the world worse than the holocaust etc, forcing our own overinflated housing market to crash

Aus. Govt. will be wise to push the restart button as to give a boost to dwindling export industries while the global market is crashed.
This is because we have an incredibly low manufacturing %GDP, second only to Luxembourg; and no culture of innovation blah blah Australian disease.

I need some sleep which should mean a rebound late in the 09:00-12:00 quarter of the day.

Keep in mind how many of those now-foreign-owned resources got acquired...

>Be Aussie Company!
>Proud Aussie Company!
>Big Aussie Company!
>Big Executive Salaries Company!
>Super-incompetent Management Company!
>Driven to Bankruptcy Company!
>Management get the Golden Parachute and do a Runner!
get bought out cheap by chings company
chings boot all the incompetents and run the company properly

>>15000
>China will have a housing crash likely in the next two years
People have been saying that for ages man.
I mean, I've seen the deserted towns and stuff, it looks like it should happen any minute, but it just keeps..... Not happening

>>11745
>>Too many people, not enough jobs
more like
>>too much concertration on resources industry and not much doing about making/bringing new founded industries to australia

>>10317
depends what you buy

>too much concertration on resources industry and not much doing about making/bringing new founded industries to australia

The NBN :/

>>11745
you forgot
>tourism industry is dead
>tourism towns drying up
>tourism fed a large amount of small businesses
>small businesses owned by middle class
>middle class is going to be choking when their savings run out and their kids are in good private schools and about to head off to uni
fuck abbot

>>9933
Manufacturing is dying in Australia because it's cheaper to manufacture in China.
Australia needs to become less dependent on manufacturing and create jobs in other areas, like services.

Now, the NBN (the *real* NBN) could improve our ability to do just that. But Malcolm Turnbull apparently thinks the install cost is the *ONLY* thing that matters. Fuck the economic benefits, fuck the operational and maintenance costs, fuck the long term viability of the network, let's build a network that's guaranteed to need replacing not long after it's built so we'll have to spend even more money in the long run doing it right the second time while missing out on a lot of new jobs and hindering productivity in the meantime.

>>17959
"well back in my day, we didn't have internet and did just fine!!!"

Fuck, who do I vote for.

>>17959
>Australia needs to become less dependent on manufacturing and create jobs in other areas, like services.
Yeah what, and did more holes too?

>>17959
>Manufacturing is dying in Australia because it's cheaper to manufacture in China.
Singapore, Thailand, Brazil, India and there's one other, but I can't fucking remember it. Manufacturing in China is far from cheap, because they have so many taxes and restrictions, our business with China is purely to sell them overpriced ores.

Also, Australia is doing the dumb and pretending it can sustain an equal middle-class living standard without manufacturing, but so are most western countries. This will fuck us all up, but hopefully not before we invent metallic 3d printing and other optimised automation technologies, by which stage we'll just build these factories and repair our economy.

>create jobs in other areas, like services.
Okay, you're just retarded.

More than a third of all Australians are employed in apprentices, trades or services. Our tradies have wages that make lawyers and doctors jealous.

What we don't have is industry, we need EXPORTS to bring money into the country and for that we need manufacturing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOR5vuqEQg8&feature=player_embedded#t=244

starts at 4:15 goes till 12:30

>>21148
So we need to give our (overpaid) tradies an edge over 4 (lesser quality) tradies in Indo-asia/Latin america.

For this we need tech correct? Retraining also to use said tech?

Just trying to get it clear.

>>9933
Your Bonds are very highly regarded

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/burton-malkiels-non-random-walk-down-wall-street/

>>21190
>So we need to give our (overpaid) tradies an edge over 4 (lesser quality) tradies in Indo-asia/Latin america.
We already do.

>For this we need tech correct? Retraining also to use said tech?
That's what apprentices are for, it's on the spot training. If not, TAFE isn't that expensive.

>Just trying to get it clear.
And let's get another thing clear, for Australia to compete on an international stage we need exports. Without manufacturing, we're left to rely on minerals and oil, which likely won't be around forever.

My point of view is that whilst we still have minerals and oil, we should pour money in R&D and when the minerals and oil run out, we fill the Australian outback with mostly automated factories that require no more than a handful of people monitoring them. We have to think about Australia for the long term.

>>21200

We're still somehow rated triple AAA stable by all ratings agencies.

Unfortunately for Australia, the mining industry and generous welfare, has killed the competitiveness of other industries. Aussie mad products are too expensive and the country is too expensive for tourism.

My advise is to regulate the mining industry and limit how much you can export. Get rid of the generous welfare payments which discourages working. Australia is competing with about 3 billion people nearby who don't adhere to the same environmental standards. Put restrictions on commodity products that require them to be environmentally friendly. This will make Aussie industries competitive as those other countries can't undercut certain industries. Continue to kick out boat people and limit immigration.

>>21323

Australia looks really good and has room to cut welfare/good demographics/natural resources to warrant the AAA rating. You will hit a bump but you are positioned well long term.

>>21342

The CSIRO and Uni's like UNSW come out with amazing R&D, fucking Abbott and his ideology.

hey guys im going to start a media/pr degree next week and i was wondering how abysmal the employment opportunities for this degree will be and if transfering into combined commerce/pr would improve that

Nuclear power.

That is our future. We have the largest natural deposits of uranium in the world. But Australia is all muh Fukushima, muh Chernobyl.

Nuclear power in Australia will generate tens of thousands of jobs. And will lessen our reliance on coal giving Australia back to Australians.

>>21383
You're fucked to tell you the truth.

>>21383
you're fine

>>21452
how so?

>>21512
If you want a real job in those fields, you'll have to either work for the government or move overseas where the big companies are.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/14/white-house-trade-deal_n_4790338.html

Well that puts the stupid IP laws and several other problems on hold - innovation ho!

>>21342
I would put the blame more with our housing sector - the mining boom has been good money, but what's been done with it hasn't then carried our other sectors, since it's better being invested in housing.
http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/02/its-housing-thats-killing-productivity/


Negative gearing and the 545 odd chinese who've gotten citizenship by investing into the country 5 million each only make things worse.
http://money.cnn.com/gallery/news/2014/02/06/china-wealthy-move/5.html
If all this capital was pouring into our industry, allowing it to modernise and all the rest... we'd be laughing all the way to the bank.

>>21383
not sure why you'd ask here, nor listen to anyone not providing any facts to substantiate what they're saying.
A job is a job, should be alright.

>>21365

A politician being in office for 6 months didn't cause this issue. It was built up for years by politicians who didn't want to make hard choices for short term pain and allowing the bubble to grow. In a way, Australians enjoyed and voted for these benefits and to keep the gravy train going.

>>21434

Well, Australia gets its power from Australian sources like coal and natural gas. Those industries are labor and capital intensive. Nuclear would increase the productivity of energy production which is good for cheaper energy. You would lose a good amount of jobs short term, but cheaper energy means more competitive industry.

Pardon me for being political, but given the loss of manufacturing, what are Abbott and co doing to create "1 million new jobs"?
Please don't say abolishing the carbon tax.

>>21608
New industry, "stopping boats"

Abbott is full of shit, but what politician isn't?

>>21538

>housing sector

Good point. In Texas, we had a housing crisis after the oil market crashed and had a Savings and Loan scandal. Texas has heavy regulation on banking loans and primary gets its tax revenue through sales and property taxes. The effect is that it makes investing in housing unattractive as you can't necessarily sit on property and you are slowly losing money through taxes. Housing is relatively cheap considering how many people live in the cities.

>>21608

>carbon tax

Well it would TBH. Not being political, but you are right next to countries who have industries who don't have to worry about this. UK is a good example of what carbon taxes have done. The taxes attached to fossil fuel power to subsidized renewables makes electricity and cost to industry expensive. Granted, they could sidestep the issue with nuclear power, but NIMBY.

>>21639

That is exactly what our reserve bank and our bank regulator, APRA needs to do. I mean, in Sydney we're getting ads about how Gen Y's only need 5% to put up as a deposit and have the parents as the guarantor for the home loan. This shit is going to end nasty.

>>21605
Nuclear power is a huge industry.

Yes there would be a small term plummet in Australian coal industries but it would be quickly filled by uranium mining and processing, health and saftey audit teams, hazmat clothing and containment producers, then there's the actual researches and engineers, the maintenance workers, plus it would create a small town around the plant which creates small business such as grocers, clothing, mechanics, car dealers, fast food etc etc. nuclear is more worker intensive area but with a much high efficiency rate than coal. I don't fucking understand why we are not doing it.

The only good thing about Abbong is that he supports nuclear power and the greens means nothing to him.

>>21608
>what are Abbott and co doing to create "1 million new jobs"?
Nothing.

Abbott is rapidly showing that the liberal and labour are not too dissimilar.

>regulating ISP policy
>destroying jobs out of cosmopolitanism
>moar taxes!!!1!
I've always maintained that a two party system is rarely a good idea.

>>21666

Or you know, use the carbon tax as its original purpose to shift to renewables and investment into them creating new jobs in solar, hydro, wind , etc. But since big coal are big donors..

>>21669
Fuck Rams.

It's literally encourage young adults to sit on a mortgage for 30 years, and if they fail their parents (boomers) have to bail them out of default.

>>21682
Renewables are not yet sufficiently advanced to be of proper use. They require too much maintenance and the cost of repairal is huge. Nuclear is the stepping stone.

>>21682

Right, by effectively putting a lower limit on the cost of energy (ie raising prices). The effect is that people and businesses have to pay more to effectively subsidized energy that they previously got cheaper. The worse part is that those turbines and renewable industrial jobs also require energy. Why would a company build a plant in Australia if energy costs are cheaper in the 3 billion filled countries next to Australia?

>>21686
Two party system is literal trash. When they're both turds (like they are) what other choices do we have?

The greens?
Liberal democrats (tfw one seat in senate)?
Fucking clive palmer and the dicksquad?

>>21733
Bob Katter.

>fuck abo welfare, fuck the environment, fuck social policy, develop infrastructure, enhance outback Australia

>>21733

Nick Xenaphone seems legit.

>>21733
Yeah, I really can't disagree to anything in that post, even your implications.

>Liberal democrats (tfw one seat in senate)?
My theory is that if a (few) millionaire(s) backed them and funded their campaigns, they could rival the liberal party for their voters, assuming they're true to their ideology (unlikely...).

>>21676

I agree, but since nuclear power is more labor efficient per kilowatt, long term it means less people. That isn't necessarily a bad thing as they will be better paid positions and ultimately a higher standard of living. Defiantly manageable if energy consumption continues to increase.

>>21733
The only sane lot seem to me to be Xenophon, Madigan and Katter.

Now Katter is a bit of a character, but with the other two he's a force for good.

>>21758
>tfw my vote helped get xenaphon into the senate

>>21323
>We're still somehow rated triple AAA stable by all ratings agencies.
Because every other country has the same and worse problems

>>21764
Trifecta for sure, too bad they're nowhere near eachother electorate wise. Katta is the only wild card there.

>>21764
Xenophon seems to be the only level headed person in parliament.

>>21800
they started this, seems like a good idea
http://www.amfp.org.au/
https://www facebook com/amfpaustralia

we need to start giving a shit about our manufacturers.
The fact that without intervention, 50,000 of those employed in the industry soon will be without jobs, makes it all the more important.

Also, never knew Madigan has donated all his Senate pay rises back into equipment for trade schools. We need more selfless pollies like that.

bumping da thred
ausfags gonna ausfag

tradies gonna tradies

seriously they're not australia's future and australia's racism against engineers, doctors and lawyers and secondary industry workers proves that.

>>23383
>implying australians can't be those things

Ok, pretty sure you meant foreign ones of those but fuck you.

>>24034
no I actually ment racism=cultural cringe
and foreigners can go back to their home countires.

>>23383
lel there's also plenty of cultural cringe toward manufacturers and innovation

>mfw the size of the media's bagging bandwagon when toyota fell
>mfw for years before they've been bemoaning the governments for not doing enough

and Tones blames the unions and Shorten blames tones, and the circus continues.
Classic times.

>>21434
Sorry, Australia has already ran out of profitable Radioactive Ores. What coming out now is 'use one and chuck' grade, because it requires too much energy to enrich.

>>21560
You're ignoring that "abbott" includes the period from 1995-2006, where the same people /did/ have long enough to fuck things up.

>>24184
the australian environment wasnt productive enough to support a car industry

paying them to stay wouldnt solve anything, labour had been giving them handouts for years

>>24184
Welcome to Australia.

Love it or leave it.

>>24469
Why don't we all just fund a new car company, take all the employees from ford, holden and toyota, offer them jobs at slashed wages, and laugh all the way to the bank?

>>10006
>>10006
>We have a huge fucking portion in North WA. We simply just do not have the current infrastructure to make it profitable just yet.
Is that so?
I always thought it was the abo's who don't want us touching their land.

>>24485
Like that ever stopped Gina.

The government likes to pander the abos but when it's trillions of dollars at stake. You watch bulldozers crush the little abo towns.

>>24482
>slashed wages

only happen if abbott brings back workchoices

>>24469
We should've kept funding them, but demanding equity on investment or else we take the land rights to the factory etc.

Whabam, toyota and Holden stay, and if they leave they get to take less with them.

Plus, the government would get a free factory.
We could make the V8 Auswagon.

The same should've been done with SPC- actual real co-investment, not just corporate welfare.

But the deed has been done, oh well.

>>24482
> offer them jobs at slashed wages
well you do raise an interesting point, Anon.
Germany did something similar, but what they did was cut wages and costs across the board by 50%.

Thus everything was 50% cheaper, but since you earnt 50% less, give or take a bit, it was practically the same.

Of course this helped Germoney prosper and keep a mad cunt manufacturing industry going by making their exports more affordable for others to buy.

> The government likes to pander the abos but when it's trillions of dollars at stake. You watch bulldozers crush the little abo towns.

You should see the national-highway-grade service roads all the Mining interests get for free...

>Tanami track: lol nigger road that only niggers from Alice Springs to Halls Creek want.
>Onslow track: lol 4 lane '100 year' highway.. for a Gina company that'll be around for 20 years, tops.

What Australia /reallllllly/ needs to do is start a war with Indonesia! .. Get that War Economy Going!

>>24756
>war economy

Hello america, leave.

>>24482
But no one buys shit Australian cars.

Remember Mitsubishi? They bet the farm on the 380... when everyone was buying either SUVs or 'small cars'.

Too many Rich Boys have their finger in the pie for Australia-based manufacturing to ever be viable.

>Mitsubishi 380
>$600 Million to develop... from an existing design

I'll bet you $400 million of that disappeared into Pittwater yachts.

Fuck, if it wasn't for unions skyrocketing wages, I could get a loan from the bank and develop an new V8 Bogan mobile en masse.

>>21342
>Get rid of the generous welfare payments which discourages working.
That's the dumbest fucking thing.
Welfare helps small businesses also reduces the costs of crime and healthcare.
Poor people don't put their money into banks, they spend it, so when you give out welfare the person you give it to holds onto it for like a week tops and it goes straight into a local business.
It's called trickle up economics and it builds strong economies by padding the small and medium sized businesses, increases education, lowers healthcare expenditures.
Giving out welfare helps the middle class more than it helps the lower classes but people are so blinded by "th-they're getting free money!" they don't see the big economic picture.

>>25235
So having a lazy non-working lower class helps the middle class more than a working lower class would?

I think he means that some of the welfare payments are too ridiculously high and it doesn't encourage anything other than collecting more centrelink. Like a single mother of 1 can claim $1,400 a fortnight.

Plus all the stupid abo welfare.

How can we fix Australia Post? Does it bother anyone else that it's cheaper to get something shipped from China than the next town over?

Should I invest my money in Australian bonds to pay off my student loan when I graduate Uni?

Or should I learn about stocks or go to stock broker and throw it at the ASX?

>>25257
So when they collect that money where does it go?

Healthy economies aren't about who gets money and why.
It's about the flow of money and from where.
welfare means money goes in at the bottom and comes out at the top.
It's not like they physically eat the money and it's lost, they spend the money in local businesses.
Local businesses owned by middle class families.
Not everyone wants to stay lower class, the smart ones will use that money to make the most of that opportunity and use it to help them get an education and make the road to the next class level easier.
If you only focus on the dropkicks in that group, you forget about the few people within that group that will actually move out of lower class and up to middle class. This decreases the lower class and increases the middle class. And the next generation of people that come from those people who got out of the lower class will start out in the middle class with more opportunities.
Also I'd rather a lazy non-working lower class than a society-cost increasing criminal non-working lower class.
And come to think of it I'd rather have a healthy non-working lower class than an unhealthy non-working lower class that puts a bigger strain on the healthcare system.

>>25331
Where do you think the lower class gets centrelink from? Taxes. Who pays the taxes? The middle class.

A working lower class is infinitely better because they both contribute in tax and work for the middle-upper classes.

>>25344
Do you know what else we pay taxes for?
>the healthcare system
>Law enforcement
They both go under greater strain when you lower welfare.

Do you know who owns and operates all the small and medium sized businesses in australia?
The middle class.
Do you know where the middle class get's the money to pay their taxes from?
Their small and medium sized businesses.
Do you know what the lower class does when they get welfare?
protip: it's not put it in an offshore account or in a savings account

Economies work on the flow of money, who gives a shit if people are happy to exist in the lower class if they facilitate the transactions that keeps the economy healthy for people who will work to get out of the lower class, and for those already above it, and do so whilst also removing themselves from being a healthcare problem or a law enforcement problem.

>>25257
>I think the middle class is anything but a working lower class

Btw, if anyone's interested the the Abbott Govermnet's playbook for the next year or so, it here: http://ipa.org.au/publications/2080/be-like-gough-75-radical-ideas-to-transform-australia

>>25442
Jesus fuck i hope this is a joke.

1 Repeal the carbon tax, and don't replace it. It will be one thing to remove the burden of the carbon tax from the Australian economy. But if it is just replaced by another costly scheme, most of the benefits will be undone.

2 Abolish the Department of Climate Change

3 Abolish the Clean Energy Fund

4 Repeal Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act

5 Abandon Australia's bid for a seat on the United Nations Security Council

6 Repeal the renewable energy target

7 Return income taxing powers to the states

8 Abolish the Commonwealth Grants Commission

9 Abolish the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission

10 Withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol

11 Introduce fee competition to Australian universities

12 Repeal the National Curriculum

13 Introduce competing private secondary school curriculums

14 Abolish the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA)

15 Eliminate laws that require radio and television broadcasters to be 'balanced'

16 Abolish television spectrum licensing and devolve spectrum management to the common law

17 End local content requirements for Australian television stations

18 Eliminate family tax benefits

19 Abandon the paid parental leave scheme

20 Means-test Medicare

21 End all corporate welfare and subsidies by closing the Department of Industry, Innovation, Science, Research and Tertiary Education

22 Introduce voluntary voting

23 End mandatory disclosures on political donations

24 End media blackout in final days of election campaigns

25 End public funding to political parties

26 Remove anti-dumping laws

27 Eliminate media ownership restrictions

28 Abolish the Foreign Investment Review Board

29 Eliminate the National Preventative Health Agency

30 Cease subsidising the car industry

1/2

>>25501
31 Formalise a one-in, one-out approach to regulatory reduction

32 Rule out federal funding for 2018 Commonwealth Games

33 Deregulate the parallel importation of books

34 End preferences for Industry Super Funds in workplace relations laws

35 Legislate a cap on government spending and tax as a percentage of GDP

36 Legislate a balanced budget amendment which strictly limits the size of budget deficits and the period the federal government can be in deficit

37 Force government agencies to put all of their spending online in a searchable database

38 Repeal plain packaging for cigarettes and rule it out for all other products, including alcohol and fast food

39 Reintroduce voluntary student unionism at universities

40 Introduce a voucher scheme for secondary schools

41 Repeal the alcopops tax

42 Introduce a special economic zone in the north of Australia including:
a) Lower personal income tax for residents
b) Significantly expanded 457 Visa programs for workers
c) Encourage the construction of dams

43 Repeal the mining tax

44 Devolve environmental approvals for major projects to the states

45 Introduce a single rate of income tax with a generous tax-free threshold

46 Cut company tax to an internationally competitive rate of 25 per cent

47 Cease funding the Australia Network

48 Privatise Australia Post

49 Privatise Medibank

50 Break up the ABC and put out to tender each individual function

2/3

>>25506
51 Privatise SBS

52 Reduce the size of the public service from current levels of more than 260,000 to at least the 2001 low of 212,784

53 Repeal the Fair Work Act

54 Allow individuals and employers to negotiate directly terms of employment that suit them

55 Encourage independent contracting by overturning new regulations designed to punish contractors

56 Abolish the Baby Bonus

57 Abolish the First Home Owners' Grant

58 Allow the Northern Territory to become a state

59 Halve the size of the Coalition front bench from 32 to 16

60 Remove all remaining tariff and non-tariff barriers to international trade

61 Slash top public servant salaries to much lower international standards, like in the United States

62 End all public subsidies to sport and the arts

63 Privatise the Australian Institute of Sport

64 End all hidden protectionist measures, such as preferences for local manufacturers in government tendering

65 Abolish the Office for Film and Literature Classification

66 Rule out any government-supported or mandated internet censorship

67 Means test tertiary student loans

68 Allow people to opt out of superannuation in exchange for promising to forgo any government income support in retirement

69 Immediately halt construction of the National Broadband Network and privatise any sections that have already been built

70 End all government funded Nanny State advertising

71 Reject proposals for compulsory food and alcohol labelling

72 Privatise the CSIRO

73 Defund Harmony Day

74 Close the Office for Youth

75 Privatise the Snowy-Hydro Scheme

3/3

I mean this is a joke right?
It's satire?

>>25511
I can't find the link now, but a month or so after that was published, Abbott went to an IPA lunch and told them he was going to implement as much of that list as possible.

>>25523
Fortunately, however, a lot of it depends on having a complicit Senate, which he doesn't have.

>>25511
>abolish
>repeal
>abolish
>privatise
>abolish
>end
>abolish

Holy shit please let this be a joke.

>>25523
Oh wow, he really is that much of a dick isn't he?

>>25541
>please let this be a joke

You want to be in debt nigger?

>>21817
>dozens of politicians
>only one sane person

fuck

>>25394
>Do you know what the lower class does when they get welfare?
buy drugs?

>>25545
no, but I don't want to live in Somalia either.

>>25511

They seam pretty legit to me.

>>25442
>>25501
>>25506
>>25511
boy oh boy.
Libertarian think-tanks, not even once.

>I mean this is a joke right?
Well yes and no.
They may not be joking, but by definition, Libertarians are a joke.

>It's satire?
It'd be good enough for the Onion Australia, if such a thing existed.

I mean shit, I'd be giving them props if they'd said abolish negative gearing.
But shit nigga, they going full retard.

>>25523
I highly doubt he will though. The Coalition isn't all smooth and unified in thought, it's just as fractured as the Labor party is. You've got factional elements in the Coalition that are quite patriotic/nationalistic and hate the shit out of privatisation for instance- the dissolution of the single desk and AWB remains a bitter thing for the Nats, and plenty of Libs too.

>>25541
Abbott's nothing less than the guy how started the NSW Young Liberals 'Rottweiler' contingent. He's been long-known as a monstrous psychopath.

>>25554
I'm sure some do, but there's also some who use it to feed their family and buy necessities.
Why take away something good from those who do good just because there's some useless shits?

Poverty just breeds more poverty.
Sure welfare can be misused by a few but the net benefit outweighs that.

>>25564
The IPA/Institute of Public Affairs aren't Liberarian/Cato wannabes. They're the think-tank that's been setting Australian Liberal/Conservative Party policies for 75 years. They're exceeding Neocon currently.

>>25576

If you want this fixed, remove min wage.

SA Election in 4 weeks, who should I vote for

>>25582
Xenaphon if at all possible.

>>25564
Wait for the ancaps, they're worse.

>>25591
not possible

>>25591
>>21817

go to bed nick

>>25591
muh pokies

>>25596
I DON'T HAVE A BED TIME, DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO MUM.

>>15000
>This is because we have an incredibly low manufacturing %GDP, second only to Luxembourg; and no culture of innovation blah blah Australian disease.

Can't wait to see how that turns out.

No developed country has ever thrived without an industrial base.

>>25595
do it anyway.

>>25583
I favor removing the minimum wage if combined with changing welfare to a negative income tax paid out annually and only with the filing of a tax return. This will help eliminate the cash economy and get the long term unemployed to work (unless they know how to budget)

>>25568
>NSW Young Liberals

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Liberals_(Australia)#cite_ref-ABC_Footage_released_15-0
In July 2006, Young Liberal Movement was the subject of controversy after the ABC's Lateline program aired footage from the 2005 National Union of Students' conference in Ballarat. The video showed Liberal students chanting "We're racist, we're sexist, we're homophobic". The president of the New South Wales Young Liberals released a statement condemning the outbursts.[15]

He got into power appealing to racist and xenophobic Australians most of which are poorly educated lower class workers.
The irony is he's not working in their interests at all, might as well be an australian version of america's tea party.

>>25501
>>25506
>>25511
The government is definitely against some of these and others would be political suicide. But a lot of the privatisation will probably happen, since it's the Coalition's go to method of creating the illusion of good fiscal management.

Australia doesn't care about 10+% inflation and unemployment at the same time if we have "muh surplus".

>>25620

yep, somrthing like that.

I think you just gradually reduce min wage and welfare together until they are zero.

>>25622
>The irony is he's not working in their interests at all, might as well be an australian version of america's tea party.

And thread hiding time has officially arrived. Have a good evening.

>>25578
yeah, but half this shit isn't happening.
http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/09/06/institute-of-liberal-party-policy-what-the-ipa-will-get-from-abbott/
and that's from Crikey, who if the ABC are left-wing, Crikey is Karl Marx himself.
lel.

>>25608
I might as well repost my thoughts from elsewhere on the matter.

Now, Australia and Luxembourg in other regards are chalk and cheese- we aren't a small nation where the people learn 6 languages at school, with a near dedicated service economy due to the fact that it is better to specialise as it can import manufactured and resource goods from elsewhere in Europe.

You've got to look above the endless worker-owner-government blame cycle.
Before we start manufacturing again, we need to fix the way capital is handled in the country.
We have the lowest high-tech manufacturing too-
http://www.smh.com.au/business/australia-needs-to-smarten-up-its-act-with-manufacturing-exports-20140214-32ref.html
which is the low-employee to output industry of manufacturing -everything is automated.
So, wages might be part of the problem when we're talking about uncompetitive manufacturers- but they naturally aren't the only problem we're facing!
Indeed if it's something more fundamental than workers - affecting all manufacturing including high-tech, it's probably a bigger problem.

That's not to say that I or others are *sure* the current economy won't work - it might, just that we're heading into uncharted territory- can a country, indeed a continent/geographical region, really hold itself above water with only resource and service sectors?

If the government doesn't act we'll soon see- let the 22 million participant strong experiment begin, I guess...

>note: might add some more.

>>11745
>>13380
>>17827
>Australia is a republic, blame one person
Actually no, Australia is a Democracy, you can't blame Abbot like you'd blame Obama.

>>25686
>implying parties don't market their leaders to the voters

>>25686
What, Tone has much greater influence in the legislature than Obama does.

>>25669
cont.

was just waxing before on how the Rudd and Swann could've done this, if only they'd had the hindsight.
Instead we rode over the GFC when in fact we could have used it as an opportunity for reform- with Kevvo blaming any problems caused by the economic "adjustment" on the GFC.
Short term what they did was the right thing - long term it was ignoring decades of manufacturing decline in Australia and deciding to ignore it yet again- when the iron was red hot to strike.

It's near definite that the government is in no position to ride out another financial crisis now though.
If there is another one, it would be the perfect opportunity to push the reset button on our economy. The market will do some of the heavy lifting- evening the playing field for new players and helping our exports, but it will only bloom if the government shifts things around a bit, and investors are led to the water.

>>25686
correct.

Also, can we not talk politics and pollie bashing - the board's for all things economics; take the political shitflinging to /pol/.

>>13446
you do realise that keynes was one of the richest economists to ever live
>he had like 18 million at death
>he invented commodity speculation

>>25286
bitch pls
australia post is a profitable well run business with great procurement but a lot of assets that need replacing (e.g the bikes, trucks)