/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>12956463
>wants to buy stuff
>goes and asks the people that have the most interest in him buying that stuff

>>12956503
pls no buly

Everywhere else is retarded, they give 50/50 answers. It honestly seems like nobody has a fucking clue.

Wait for the bottom. Or at least a Bottom.

>>12956520
They don't, least of all you. Enjoy missing out.

unironically yes, but wait a month or so for capitulation, which is where BTC will bottom out in price and move sideways for a year. then buy this:

40% ETH
40% LINK
20% BTC

Your Bitcoin/shitcoin money allocation seems to be right at least. 2-3 BTC and $500 on shitcoins is how I would invest the money as well. You should wait for a trend reversal though. Right now there are no signs that the bear market is over. You should wait for at least one higher high (which IMO is gonna be a trap the first time, so maybe wait for some follow-through) before buying any coins.

>>12956555
Checked.

Buy when it goes down a bit more. I think it will go to $3400 then bounce back to current prices and go sideways until September-November of this year. That's about when the next run up will start, so make sure you've bought bitcoin by then.

Don't buy altcoins until bitcoin goes past $15,000 or so. There will be lots of media attention when it goes above $20,000 the previous high and a new bubble will begin.

Here's how the cryptocurrency market works

>bitcoin goes up
>everyone who hold bitcoin "makes money"
>people see that there's some hot new altcoins that are sooo cheap
>altcoins are pumped
>people dumping altcoins for bitcoin after they "make money"
>bitcoin going up again
>repeat until run out of new money, bubble too big and collapses bitcoin crashes, altcoins crash harder and many die out
>most of the money that was "made" is lost because they held onto their shitcoins after the bubble popped

https://coinmarketcap.com/historical/20141228/
Some old coins here, see how many are gone or would have lost you money.

Just hold bitcoin for now, safest bet.

>>12956555
Capitulation was the drop from 6k to 3k. It will never go below 3k again.

Buy LINK if this guy is right. Never buy LINK if I'm right.

Note that it may take twice as long as the last bubble to reach a new high.

>>12956738
Nice one.

>>12956738
>Capitulation was the drop from 6k to 3k.

idiot

>>12956738
Solid post but
>6k to 3k was capitulation
very very very wrong

Study Bitcoin. Read as much as you can about it and zoom all the way out on the log charts. Understand halvings and their significance. Watch Andreas Antonopoulos videos on YouTube. The most important aspect of Bitcoin to grasp is its use as a store-of-value. It's "digital gold." If you understand this, you can see the future.

Dollar-cost-average into Bitcoin during this bear market. If patterns repeat, around the middle of this year we will stabilize and slowly start rising. Make absolutely sure you have at least one whole Bitcoin before the next bull market begins. You have plenty of time, but you should be buying in tranches every 1-3 weeks, depending on how you want to stagger your buys.

Pick up some Ether too. Read about Ethereum, because it's huge. Once you understand Ethereum, consider grabbing a few hundred 0xBitcoin as suicide insurance. A lot of people think it will go nowhere, and maybe nothing will happen, but it's one of those tokens that will make you filthy rich if it does end up hitting. Do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

Whatever you do though, HAVE AT LEAST ONE BITCOIN before the next bull market. This is our last chance to make life-changing money in a relatively short timespan.

And finally, when the bull does come, begin selling small increments of your stack once we breach the previous all-time high. Sell more the higher we go, but never sell everything, only percentages of what you have left. When the bubble pops, you can accumulate again what you lost over the next couple of years.

Good luck. Don't procrastinate. I knew about Bitcoin in 2011.

You don't want to live with that kind of regret.

>>12956463
Don't feel too bad. You'd probably have HODLed through the bull run like the rest of us.

>>12956817
What about link?

>>12956817
Okay, you've convinced me. I've set up on 4 different exchanges and I am about to set up a wallet. Any ideas on which wallets are good?
I'm gonna invest a few thousand over the next 3 months.
Gonna be pretty gutted if this all falls to shit, I can afford to lose this money but I am still a wagie at the end of the day.

>>12956817
t. bagholder cope.

You didn't buy in 2011 and now you're sitting on massive losses in the hope that *maybe* the global fomo will start again.

>>12956849
buy hardware wallet ASAP, ideally (eventually) two of different brands to split your stack for ultra paranoia safety purposes

>>12956849
Consider the opposite side of the equation. Perhaps BTC isn't a great store of value and perhaps its a terrible payments system. Perhaps the only reason you're buying it to sell it to the next tard at a higher price.

Perhaps you don't realize that the price is already up literally 35 million percent from its first price point of 1 penny. Perhaps you should know that a few very early neckbeards have 90% of the supply and will be in the profit even if BTC drops back to $100. Perhaps this should make you consider that some things don't go up forever.

>>12956900
>>12956916
> pls fill my bags

>>12956916
For fucksake.
This is the same thing that happens no matter how much research I do. Someone says bitcoin is the future with 100% confidence, than someone else comes along and declares that it's all a pyramid scheme and anybody getting in now is getting robbed.

The lack of any real consensus makes me think it's probably all bullshit.
I can't be fucking bothered being a wagie for the rest of my days. I'm literally going to kill myself if I have to do this shit for another 2 or 3 years.
What are you invested in, if not bitcoin?
I was also thinking of using freetrade when it opens up on android in the UK next month and trying to get in early on some tech startups. I have a good eye for them and I've missed literally dozens in the last few years because I'm a massive faggot and have wasted all my money on nothing.

>>12956933
I sold everything a while back. Just enjoy watching the carnage from the sidelines.

>>12956941
No larp, I do have a reasonable amount of cash. Sitting in 100% cash right now and trying to sell one of my two properties since I think we've reached peak mania in the stock markets. Struggling to even get market value for my property (its in a top location in a big city, and I'm asking literally market value for it). I don't have the fortitude to go through a crypto bear and then a stock bear, I'd rather just sit in cash for the next year or two and wait.

>>12956941

Tough luck, read about venture capitalism and understand why more profit means more risk and less information, there was days where stocks where just speculation based on the theoretical premise of debt and see how it went, see the fundamentals or bust

>>12956463
how about not fucking gambling?
also why is it so difficult for you to think for yourself?
>FOMO
you're everything wrong with crypto. you just want to make a quick buck instead of seeing it as an actual decentralized currency. I hope you lose every fucking penny you buy in with

>>12956836

Don't know much about it; understand oracles will be important but the tech goes over my head. I'm partial to proof-of-work coins with unique use cases. I think the jury is still out on utility tokens' capacity for retaining value long-term. If you time it right, and pick the right ones, you can become a millionaire. I am not confident in my ability to do that. The only one I'm willing to gamble on right now is Ether. My portfolio is BTC, ETH, XMR, and 0xBTC.

>>12956849
Use multiple wallets.

Mycelium is the best mobile wallet IMO, but you shouldn't keep a majority on your phone.

T b h I've never used a bitcoin wallet for desktop, only altcoin wallets.

I use a ledger nano hardware wallet. "Trezor" is the other big brand. I picked ledger because it's a slimmer design.

Those are the three types of wallets. So keep like 5% on your phone, 20% on your computer, 25% on an exchange if you want to trade, and the rest on a "hardware wallet".

Hardware wallets aren't 100% secure if someone has physical access, however.

https://cryptovest.com/news/hardware-wallets-independent-tester-saleem-rashid-reveals-nano-trezor-vulnerabilities/

This teen found problems with both of the popular ones.

DONT use Exodus wallet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHHbaWsUsuw

This guy got hacked and no one really knows what happened.

>>12956941

Keep reading about it. I actually hopped on the Ethereum train first, because I had read about Bitcoin in the preceding years and figured it would never catch on. Ethereum was the first crypto project that sounded truly revolutionary to me.

Then the 2017 bull occurred, and I realized Bitcoin was doing exactly what its proponents had said it would since its birth. It was hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that a digital, ones-and-zeros asset could have intrinsic worth. Eventually you have the "aha" moment, and you understand that it's all about the power of belief.

Gold has value as an industrial metal, and as a scarce resource, but 95% of gold's value comes because people BELIEVE it has value. Thousands of years ago a critical mass of belief was reached that elevated it above all other metals and goods as a store-of-value, due to its intrinsic qualities. These qualities are absolutely vital, scarcity and fungibility in particular, but ultimately, gold is worth as much as it is now because it is gold, and there is only one gold. That mass of belief has built momentum over thousands of years of human history, and carries it ever-further into the future. If you made a metal with the exact same properties and scarcity as gold, but it visibly wasn't gold -- maybe we could call it Gold Cash, or Gold SV -- would it steal gold's marketcap?

Now understand that Bitcoin is a DIGITAL gold, with important qualities that gold does not, can not, have. It's the original store-of-value of the digital age. And understand that with every day, every week, every month, every year, people's belief in Bitcoin grows stronger, as people's belief in gold surely grew stronger with every passing year it retained and gained in value.

>>12957114

(cont.)

Major institutions are now dipping their toes in. ETFs are being readied. Wall Street is paying attention. TV news tracks Bitcoin's price. It doesn't matter where you look, there is only good news for Bitcoin. Scaling will remain an issue, until it isn't. And then it will be an issue again, and then it won't again, and on and on, as you saw with the early internet moving from text to images to streaming video to streaming HD. (Antonopoulos has a talk on this; look it up.)

So far, Bitcoin is the best-performing asset in history. The real, brutal test will come with the next recession. Bitcoin has never experienced depressive economic conditions, since it was born out of the end of the Great Recession. We're all praying the golden bullrun comes before the crash. Regardless, I'd rather be in crypto and cash than the stock market when that happens.

>>12956941
lol your brain is like soft clay

OHHH NOOOO THE BAD FUD PERSON CAME INTO THE THREAD AND SAID SOME MEAN STUFF :(

you lack both the constitution and knowledge-base to make it. you need to convince YOURSELF where we're going. that means watching the threads here for an entire year.

JPM is creating a stablecoin. Starbucks invested in Bakkt. Take off the fucking horse-blinders.

>>12956463
Get some BSV. At this point what has the biggest chance to 100x, something worth 4k USD or something worth 67 USD?

BTC inflated beyond reason in 2017, no way it was worth that much and it's not worth the current price either. Especially now that adoption has gone away. Only reason the price stays at 4k is because the holders left are those simply refusing to sell at a loss.

More and more every day are waking up to the fact that Lightning Network won't go anywhere (and it isn't even BTC exclusive to begin with anyway) and meanwhile Blockstream are making full-retard statements like "bitcoin wasnt meant as a payment network".
https://twitter.com/davidshares/status/1103343372515926016

BTC will never rise to 20k again, there's no fucking way. Either BSV wins or it all dies off when VISA or MasterCard releases some kind of fake crypto. Though I guess BCH also has a chance simply because of the people supporting it but I lost faith in that project once checkpoints were introduced (makes it too trust-based to new clients).

>>12957219
ignore this one

>>12957240
ignore this one

>>12957279
Ignore this one

>>12957301
ignore this one

>>12956817

>Watches Antonopoulos videos
>Doesn't understand Antonopolous' viewpoint about bitcoin not being a store of value

The most important aspect is the freeing of the average person to transact currency of their choosing, offering a choice away from the centralised institutions imposed upon them i.e. A safety net from dictatorships

Shiggy Diggy

OP is not redpilled yet.
Do you want the blue pill or the red pill OP?

yes

>>12957454
Sorry I had to go out.
Redpill, obviously.

>>12957818
>Redpill
No currently released coin will survive 5 years.

>>12956941
hey faggot OP
read my first post again. Here I'll quote it for you
>goes and asks the people that have the most interest in him buying that stuff

Now ask yourself why would someone spend time on a board that is 99.9% crypto and tell you not to buy crypto? How does that make any sense? Why is that person wasting his time here and is informed enough about crypto, yet he hates it and tells other people it's a bad investment? Is it maybe because he's filling his bags with that asset and doesn't want normies like you to get in at this price, so that you can FOMO in later and provide liquidity? Hmmm?

Here, I'll redpill you on crypto and BTC so you stop being an emotional bitch. What this guy said is mostly true >>12956817

What you're saying here is also true
>than someone else comes along and declares that it's all a pyramid scheme

Now for some spoonfeeding. BTC is a currency. You CANNOT value a currency. It is worth what the law of supply and demand dictates it is worth. The demand is dictated by what people believe. Read up on Soros' theory of market reflexivity to understand how markets work. Unlike all the currencies in the world, BTC is deflationary. With fiat you know that it's always going down because the supply is infinite. With BTC the supply is limited which means the main variable that determines the price is the demand. When you're buying BTC you're actually gambling on the fact that the demand will increase. Why would the demand increase? Scroll back up to Soros' theory.

If this makes you unconfortable and you're looking for something that is easier to evaluate, gamble on something that will be asset backed like Holo. I cba to educate you on this since you seem to have trouble grasping a simple protocol like BTC, but in many ways it was designed to satisfy faggots like you by tethering the value to an underlying asset while leaving room for growth.

>>12957893
forgot to give the TL/DR: the price of BTC is what it is. What matters is the sentiment behind the market. If you believe that the sentiment can be manipulated and if you're aware that most whales haven't actually sold but accumulated, go buy it. If you believe those whales are complete retards and you are smarter than them and you don't believe they can manipulate the sentiment, don't buy.

>>12957818
how should it not be a store of value if it has a limited supply

>>12957893
Alright. Thanks. I'm not completely retarded, I understand the basic concept of Bitcoin and how it works and I get how markets work. The reason I'm so nervous and emotional is because I grew up watching my dad wageslave for decades, nearly killing himself and making himself ill, then my brother, now me. I have finally managed to claw some money together that I can actually afford to do something with and I don't want to waste it. I'm tired of being working class scum. This life is disgusting. The anticipation and FOMO is a mindkiller.

I'm do some very serious research over the next fortnight. 3 or 4 hours a night. By April 1st I'm going to know more about crypto currency than 99.99% of the rest of the world, I promise.

Honestly I'd rather risk it all with a 50/50 shot of losing then take even a 1% of missing out again. If I swerve this opportunity and Bitcoin goes 20k+ again I'll be literally suicidal. It'd be like being Jeff Bezos' room mate in the 90's and telling him you want scratchcards for christmas instead of stock in his stupid new company.

Thanks for the advice guys.

>>12957433

That's great, it is, but we're talking about making money. Any crypto can circumvent financial laws. Bitcoin's status as the internet store-of-value, global digital gold, is what makes it such a tremendous investment.

Anton is a technology guy, he doesn't care much about the price. But this is /biz/.

>>12957977
Alright, fuck off already newfag

>>12957114
>Eventually you have the "aha" moment, and you understand that it's all about the power of belief.
I'm surprised you didn't have the "aha" moment when you went on Silk Road the first time.

>>12957219
>it all dies off when VISA or MasterCard releases some kind of fake crypto
Venmo and Cashapp exist and yet there's still interest in crypto

>>12957977
>The reason I'm so nervous and emotional is because I grew up watching my dad wageslave for decades, nearly killing himself and making himself ill
Fuck, IKTF. I found a low-effort office job for myself though, so I'm not killing myself at this point in my life, but preparations need to be made to where I won't have to kill myself once the inevitable layoffs happen at my company. Best of luck to us both.

>>12957977
Honestly from this post you don't sound as retarded as I thought, so I'd say go ahead and pull the trigger on crypto. Do a bit more research and then buy your 2-3 BTC.
If you understand how markets work, the only thing left to think about is the following: is society heading in a direction that makes BTC/crypto valuable (increased demand)? Most would say yes and we're heading there at a high velocity. See Venezuela and other shitholes that are turning to crypto, see all the censorship and banning of alt right figures from payment platforms or even banks, see import of migrants + credits to keep up the price of real estate. There are many shady things going on in the world and crypto might be a solution to some of them. Obviously the kikes will accumulate as much crypto as possible like they did with gold. By having a big enough % they can manipulate it and shake people out or make them lose faith. Crypto is either a solution to some problems or a threat to the status quo and it will be stopped. But in order to stop it they will have to buy a controlling stake in it. Either way, at some point they will want to unload the bags. They will need liquidity for this so they will trigger the golden bullrun. If you believe crypto is legit and not controlled by the kikes yet, hold it for very long term. If you think it will be "tamed", sell during the next bullrun. Good luck.

>>12956463
first, iktf
1. put everything you can afford into bitcoin (and BTC only) right now. fiat is doomed
2. allocate yourself a small portion of that for fucking around with. DO NOT TOUCH THE REST NO MATTER HOW TEMPTED
3. immerse yourself in alt-land for a few weeks and ride the learning curve. your brain needs to build a structure that can assimilate all of this information
4. fundamentals barely matter in crypto. trading is everything. emotional control is the most important element of trading. don't judge how others are doing. it is you against yourself.
5. there's a lot you don't know you don't know
good luck, fren

>>12958100
Haha I had a cushty office job when I was younger but I was made redundant. I work in a huge sorting centre now. It sucks.

>>12958144
Alright. Awesome. Thanks. I would have figured all this out earlier in life but the bitterness of having missed out made me want to pretend it didn't exist. Out of sight out of mind.

>>12958152
This makes sense to me. I've been messing with a tiny amount of money, 50 dollars, for the last 2 hours, just to get a feel for alt markets and how they move. They're ridiculously volatile. I have 54 dollars already and I've barely done anything.
Fucking addictive. I can see I'm going to need a lot of fortitude to avoid the pitfall of going all in some shitty new coin because I was shilled to.
Thanks for the advice.

>>12958074
can you freely send money to anyone in the world and can anyone freely get into those systems from anywhere without jumping through hoops? else it's not comparable yet

I'm not well read about this crypto currency. I have few questions that I would like to ask you guys. Can somebody inflate or deflate crypto currency? If it couldn't be inflated as it isn't backed by any gold or anything like that so how will loaning be possible? Will crypto currency be used like gold to back up the currency?

>>12958687
It can be artificially pumped by tether, a stable coin that is 1:1 to USD.

>>12956817
>he fell for the store of value marketing pitch
BTC is a global greater fools game. The more people participate, the higher the price, but the reward is skewed towards the early participants. Companies have cashflow, whereas BTC has # of human minds converted/suckered it.

>>12958710
I'm putting on my tinfoil hat on this one so bear with me.

If crypto can be inflated then how is it different than any other currency? Those banker cunts will be able to manipulate it just like they do it now, right?

>>12958960
It’s not really inflation. The price gets pumped making it more valuable.