/biz/ - Business & Finance

It would destory businesses and the west

if he was elected the stock market would have crashed so hard with no survivers

>>1288650

As far as I am aware he wants to use seal team 6 to raid the svalbard seedvault and steal the seeds to the trees that grow everything from hamburgers to houses.

I don't have a phd in biology but I'm not convinced that's how plants work.

>>1288656
How so?
Note: There's a reason I opened this thread on /biz/ and not /pol/. I was hoping for real argument based discussion

>>1288663
He has no understanding of basic economic principles and bases his stances on appeals to emotion. For instance, he infamously noted that there's "no reason a student loan should have a higher interest rate than a home loan."

His tax policies are far too high and will tax the middle class out of existence as well as drive the rich abroad.

He is a nice guy, but isn't very intelligence. Not just economically, but overall intelligence. He even praised breadlines in Cuba.

>>1288663
It sound good on paper but the reality gonna be a another matter,, incress taxing will drive businesses out of the usa which we trying to keep in also his econemical plan would just punish the poor even further

>>1288688
Will it tough? Taxes are much higher in Europe and "outsourceable" business are already mostly gone. Take into account how much his increased government spending will fuel up the economy

>>1288709
the goverment dont give a fuck about you ! .. they will take that money and spend it on goverment shit that you will never benfit from .. at best there gonna be 1 project so the candid can rerun after 4 years like obamacare or bush war etc

>>1288709
Europe is in the shitter economically. We do not want to emulate them.

And why do you assume government spending helps the economy? Those contracts are typically secured by friends and family of people in positions of power

>>1288718
Because it is increased investions

>>1288650
>what do you think about Bernie Sanders economic policies?
Too light on detail.
Too heavy on "let's fuck market participants" because of "muh evil bankers".

>>1288720
>tfw communists make up words to back up their economic theories

>>1288918
>heavy on "let's fuck market participants"
He hasn't proposed anything as revolutionary as you make it sound. He wants to revert to Glass Blown Seagull so that banks can't gamble with or default on standard money holding. He wants a return of free education (alternatives) and the end of the government acting as predatory lenders to students, which does not limit competition in any way.
The only market he really wants to fuck over is private insurers with universal healthcare but it's fairly obvious that that market is all predatory cartels with no viable path to responsible markets.

It doesn't matter either way

>>1289113
Not even close, comrade. He wants to tax all stock trades, INCLUDING LOSERS.

>>1289113
Also, the biggest health insurers are publicly owned. Bankrupting UNH alone would fuck the public out of $131B

For the people saying it would completely fuck over the middle class. What income level do you consider middle class?

>>1289124
Luckily that has little effect on the economy. Now you know how regular people feel about the sales tax.

>>1289128
>implying he's not going to just fold in the public insurers
Easiest thing in the world.

>>1289136
>increasing the taxes on everyone's retirement account has little effect on the economy

Just because you have no idea what you're talking about doesn't mean the rest of us dont

>>1289159
Sorry you can't pin your money on HFTraders anymore, you're just gonna have to go back to how things were when you actually cared about what you invested in.

>>1288936
Kek'd

>>1289136
>Luckily that has little effect on the economy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_financial_transaction_tax

>>1289171
You keep posting, but your words make less and less sense

>>1289280
The taxation policy you're referring to disincentivizes short term trades and speculation. Will it slow down and deflate stock market profits? yeah. Will it have major effects on the economy as a whole? not if any of previous evidence of it's use in other countries is reliable.
And that's exactly the intention. The people voting for Bernie want Wall Street to suffer and take back power from them. You can act like these policies will cripple the economy but you know damn well they won't.

>>1288656
Watching the establishment stuff his campaign was the one time I witnessed the beurocrats do something right. I'm so glad they kept a retarded mob from putting someone dangerous in power.

>>1289323
>>1289171
>>1289136
Wow...
All I got to say. OP, is we'd all end up like Burlington College.

>>1288650

Would have destabilised a lot of old money in favour of jobs/growth in newer areas.

Chaos for some, but ultimately regeneration for the US economy.

Would have been really interesting.

>>1288663

Fuck off

You calling any answer you don't like/pol/ shows how retarded you are.

/biz/ has discussed Bernouts countless times. His supporters honestly think he's going to create some kind of utopia by ignoring basic economics.

His entire campaign represents the worst of politics, arguably worse than Trump's, because it is baseless identity politics

>>1288720
But not meaningful investments. You're assuming that the investments create money that cycles through the economy, rather than just accrues interest. Gotta consider that marginal propensity to consume on future income.

>>1288650
>>1288663
>>1288709
>>1288720
>>1289113
>>1289136
>>1289171
>>1289323

The "I hate having a functioning economy and want to freeze capital!" starter pack.

If Sanders wins, I'm moving my money offshore

>>1289323
Short term trades and speculation provide liquidity and are essential to a functional market. Otherwise liquidity tanks and prices skyrocket.

Tell me more about how you and Bernie know what you're talking about.

>>1289323
>He hasn't proposed anything as revolutionary as you make it sound.
Except that's a big fat lie, is't it? His plan to tax losing trades is bizarro world.
I said he wants to fuck market participants, because it's true.
Way to completely fold. Apparently, the best you can do is move the goalposts and try to justify his bullshit.

>>1288663
The US financial system is already cornered thanks to much growth being artificial, expanding artificial growth would cause overseas investors to jump ship. Even a mild scenario of such a nature would have massive implications.

At this rate inflation's coming in a big way, pointing at the latest inflation numbers in order to dismiss the budget topic doesn't make it any less plausible.

These liberal arts hipsters don't recognize how far off the deep end the economy is. A re-adjustment is coming and 4 years of Bernie could make it significantly worse. That is, unless he has some sort of secret agenda.... hahahahahahaha

>>1289669
>His plan to tax losing trades is bizarro world.
It's fucking Looney Tunes. It's almost as if he wants to take away from Wall Street prominence and send the savvy firms offshore. But that would be crazy, right?

>>1289353
If the US magically escaped its' perfect recession track record that is. You hipsters have your heads in the sand. You're not all that matters, there are dozens of other countries out there and the US has grown dependent.

>>1288650
>Sanders
>economic policies

Does hernie even have economic policies beyond "muh wall street is too successful"? Embarassing.

It's all about Trump now baby. Don't forget to pick up your Trumpcoins, and stay away from BERNcash aka bernie rubles.

>>1289681
>perfect recession track record

>>1289681
>Looney Tunes
Sure, but the people who support it are even nuttier.
Even if, like this >>1289136 idiot, they really don't even understand it. It's a "tax" against "Wall Street", so that = "good".

>>1290325
It's the same when they clamor about publicly owned corporation's rising profits.
>publicly owned
It's like they want a smaller retirement account.

>>1289323
>take power back form wall street
As soon as I read or hear this I know that the person is a dumbass.
Go read some Milton Friedman and learn how this country works.

>>1290845
>>1291282
Don't forget:
If they lose money, its someone else's fault. And they should be able to sue that someone (Inc.).

If they make money, well uh, that was what was supposed to happen.

>>1288650

He would bring starvation back as a problem in the US. Not to mention the rash of unemployment and homeless. People have no clue what the tax burden on what he proposes would do to the average american family. It would be at least a 20% increase in income tax across the board. So all your families with a few hundred dollars extra at the end of the month will now find themselves in a hole deciding what the prefer to lose, their house, their car, or their savings and retirment.

>>1291298
so true. To build on your point, people like that also believe that all their problems and failures are because of some one else.

Im amazed that people still believe the zero sum game idea

>>1291314
>people still believe the zero sum game idea
last week, someone on the board told me they bought a bunch of stock "from Apple".
then they said that their broker "called Apple up", in order to achieve this.

>>1291532
kek

>>1291532
holy shit kek

>>1291298
>If they lose money, its someone else's fault.
>If they make money, well uh, that was what was supposed to happen.
You're describing Wall Street perfectly.

>>1288650
Minimum wage is smart but I'd rather see basic income. Baby steps I suppose.

Financial transaction taxes are super retarded.

>>1288650
Americans are made for sucking big business cock so his ideas wont work in america. God forbid they got more than 2 weeks off a year or a liveable :^)

When i see threads like this i wonder if the OP is being serious or just a clever troll

how can someone not know how hard socialism destroys nations when a simple google search on socialist countries like venezuela shows you news about people killing stray dogs and cats to survive, a complete political and economical crisis, businesses leaving the country and as result lack of basic items, medicines and rampant poverty while the ruling party lives like kings

i can't understand why so many americans are entertaining voting for a communist rat like Bernie Sanders and his socialist policies, there's this small socialist island right next to your country where people literally risk their lives launching themselves on the sea on improvised boats so they can escape tyranny and socialism, how can americans give Bernie "free shit" Sanders the time of the day is beyond me

the americans are stupid meme is not really just a meme after all

>>1293235
>safety nets are communism/socialism

How can someone not know what socialism entails in 2016?

>>1293249
>2016
>how can you disagree with me when it's the CURRENT YEAR

>>1293258
I don't disagree with him you moron, but people just regurgitate the buzzwords they hear on the idiot box.

Do YOU know what socialism is?

>>1293265
of course I do, it's 2016

>>1293265
Care to explain to us?

>>1293272
>>1293274
Centrally planned economy aka no market economy at all.

Seizing all capital assets/companies and telling them how to operate/distribute resources

Bernie sanders is not doing anything remotely as retarded as that

>>1293354
Then why the fuck does he call himself a socialist

>>1293360
I guess he's a bigger retard than I thought, or his policies don't represent his actual end goal

>>1293360
"It would be much less contentious and more correct if Sanders gave his worldview its proper name: social democracy."

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialism/471630/

Yeah, the answer is I really don't fucking know.

>>1293176

We did have culture of work in the US. We used to understand that production and work meant prosperity. Now we've taken the European style socialist delusion of who can we leach of off next.

RIP USA may we one day slaughter the commies, socialists, progressives and return to true laissez faire capitalism, the only true free and just system that man has ever devised.

>>1293375

yes because 51% of the population will always know whats right.

Democracys are shit, I'm glad I live in the USA where it's a Republic and where individual rights were supposed to be inalienable and not up for vote.

>>1293354
You can effectively seize assets and plan an economy with the tax code. You can effectively redistribute goods through entitlement programs. Just because the majority votes for these programs doesn't make them any less socialist.

>>1293413
Sure but the majority of control is still within corporations/individuals. Redistribution is good as long as it isn't overboard/wasted (hard to do with corruption/bureaucratic bloat but basic income is coming soon). Why do stimulus packages exist? No company would sacrifice to benefit the economy as a whole, they have no responsibility to it.

The advantage market economies have is efficient resource allocation. But with too much market freedom it also becomes inefficient due to mergers/monopolies and price gouging. Competition becomes worthless because the larger companies will run at a loss with their cash reserves and buy out the small start up competition and resume price gouging.

There's a balance needed. Do I know where that line is drawn? No.


>>1293400
But we'll always have retards like this that will drink the ayn rand tier kool aid

>>1293444

ah yes, the mixed economy kool aid drinker. Muh government intervention just needs to be managed better! next time it will be different! This time my flavor of socialism will work!!

>>1293466
It's been working for pretty much the entirety of the united states history so....

>>1289129
you are a fucking idiot

>>1293471

well we have never had a an economy that was separated from government manipulation. The closest was the early American economy which pretty much grew at the fastest rate, most innovation, ever in the history of man aka the industrial revolution. Took man from wood shacks to skyscrapers, planes and electricity in 25-50 years.

but I guess the government programs must have done it, right buddy

>>1293491
It was mainly due to technology rather than economic systems. I'd rather not have robber barons with child labor and high workplace mortality/injury any more but that's just me

>>1293466
>>1293491

Hong Kong was a free market experiment by the British, and wouldn't you know, a tiny little rock with a glimpse of capitalism became a financial powerhouse.

How can commies, progressives and socialists, be SO FUCKING DUMB?

>>1293507

Where the fuck do you think the technology came form? Did it fall from the sky?

The technology came because people could finnaly make greedy money for themselves.

Do you think Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin because he loved niggers? no he wanted to make fucking cash

>>1293511
Nobody is dissuading people from making money retard, it's just ensuring it's made relatively morally rather than through mass human suffering like in Hong Kong (which growth can also be attributed to it still developing at the time)

Go back to /pol/ please

The true problem at the base of this madness is that our altruistic moral code IS NOT compatible with the self-interest of capitalism. Even though time and again capitalism work great, we still will not reevaluate that maybe sacrifice and collectivism DOES NOT WORK! We are all selfish individuals and it it completely moral to be selfish

>>1293519

>mass human suffering like in Hong Kong

lol you mean communist China? You sir are a master of delusion.

>>1293529
Lmao so you are an ayn rand cultist. The person thoroughly refuted.
>>1293536
Wow some shiny lit buildings now you're really arguing like ayn rand.

Want me to post pictures of the cells they can barely afford to live in from the wages they earn inside the same sweatshop with suicide nets outside the windows?

>>1293536
And if free market with no labor laws is so great why is hong kong transitioning away from it (slowly)

It certainly does help with economic "progress" but without social progress economic progress is meaningless. You need to expand from cheap good production and social progress helps with that.

Fuck ayn rand and I'm out

>>1293444
State sponsored wealth redistribution doesn't have to happen at all. Voluntary organizations like the church used to fill this role just fine and were often times better at cutting down on waste/fraud/abuse because they were better able to identify those in need and were more accountable to the donators for their actions. People were not dying of starvation in vast numbers before we started the 'war on poverty' that ushered in all these programs and they wouldn't stave without them today. Stimulus packages are another waste because they allow for bad business practices to continue by giving companies with bad or mediocre products a shot in the arm. Companies are not supposed to be these permanent fixtures that taxpayers are obligated to keep running. Allowing these large companies to fail would allow for smaller companies to step up and replace a bad or mediocre product with a good product.

Please give me an example of these free market price gouging monopolies. It's a phantom threat that has never been realized. Meanwhile you've got large companies engaging in regulatory capture to get the same effects. The reality is that monopolies have to be state enforced because in a free market once you jack the price up you give room for competition to grow or people will find an alternative.

It's also hilarious to me that there are regulators who think they understand this system well enough to finely tune their laws to have the desired effect. If they were truly such market wizards they would likely be trading in the private sector and would have vast fortunes. The reality is that the people in charge of regulations are usually people who have found only little to moderate success in the private sector (sometimes even spectacular failure) and were appointed to their positions through nepotism.

>>1293536

23 yo Chinese here...

I work in Beijing for 4 years and now have heavy asthma & bronchitis.

Basically, all my co-workers that are in 20's expect to get some type of cancer by time we are 40's.

thats something we young Chinese workers have accepted.

work in the city, make money, get cancer.

>>1293657

This is what my view look like almost all days.

And pollution inside building is even worse cuz we have no filters/airflow in the buildings.

we wear masks inside the office on some days.

>>1293546

Hurrr durr Ayn Rand hurr durr

> gives no rebuttle

>>1293664

why don't you just leave?

>>1293657
>>1293664

Yes please post the ones in HONG KONG

My point was Hong Kong doesn't have sweatshops like the idiot in the last post thinks their are.

In commie China of course there are sweatshops.

There are so many examples of capitalism and free trade working over communism and socialism that it makes me sick. East Berlin/ west Berlin, North Korea/South Korea, USA/Russia, Hong Kong/ China. How Bernie idiots and most of the world some how demonizes the hand that feeds them is beyond me and truly is the most destructive mental illness of the human race.

>>1289323
>be me
>have an etrade account with $2500 balance
>contribute to a 401(k) too but I watch Mad Money sometimes and browse /biz/ I should invest on my own too..
>for the future
we wall street speculator now

oh good a stock tax. Thanks Bernie for checking my privilege. what was I thinking? s-sorry im such a cis male scum

>>1288668
>He is a nice guy, but isn't very intelligence

>>1293742
>oh good a stock tax
Hey, if you have a brokerage account or own stock, you must be part of "Wall Street", man.

>>1293742
You are not a megafirm AI trader in a computer sitting on the stockroom floor or investing in high risk speculative financial products.
Don't see how it would effect your cute little 401k and etrade account.

>>1294499
>Don't see how it would effect
Of course you don't.
Can you just spare us the lies about how you know all about how the tax works, and who it would "effect"?
>inb4: but I don't give a fuck about those people

>>1294499
Stop shilling your dead jewboy, he's out of the race now. Hillary got the nomnom. Quit the classism, quit the career jealousy, and earn some fucking money of your own.

>>1293555
>It certainly does help with economic "progress" but without social progress economic progress is meaningless.
Economic progress leads to social progress when it's not artificial and equivalent to inflation. If the system were fixed and the economy shifted into high gear 5%+ annual growth we'd quickly see some huge social progress. On the other hand when the federal deficit is 2% GDP and growth is 2% you can expect to see social regress.

What does /biz/ think about Robert Kiyosaki?

>>1294499
>I don't understand it therefore it should be taxed

>>1294499
>sitting on the stockroom floor
Do they still do this?
Like, at Safeway?

>>1288650

>Corporate Greed Hurp Derp
>I can't even name 20 corporations but they're all greedy!
>How are they greedy?
>HAH, they obviously are don't you know anything??

>>1294529
>Hillary got the nomnom
>Stop shilling your dead jewboy
>Quit the classism
t. Soros

>>1289129
This image is disinformation and wrong.

Sander's proposes a 2.2% tax increase on ALL brackets.