/biz/ - Business & Finance

And for those who didn't see this yesterday, this is the face of the r/buttcoin movement.

>>12813348
show us more compromising stuff to do with David anon

I will unironically tell you why OP. Its because bitcoin is a meme which is unbacked and has a ponzi scam. There is no use. It is all greater fools wishing to sell to a fool for more fiat. That is literally it. This leads to bubbles but will eventually crash to 0. Bitcoin is useless and worthless unless your a criminal. Period.

>>12813356
Proof? I believe you, but I want my shitposting to have more impact when I use this.

>>12813362
>Proof? I believe you, but I want my shitposting to have more impact when I use this.
https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/David_Gerard

David Gerard is a prominent member of the r/buttcoin community
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073CPP581/
https://davidgerard.co.uk/
https://www.reddit.com/user/dgerard

I've always found it odd that he isn't on the moderation team of r/buttcoin. Since he is one of the most senior people in that community and he's also a SysAdmin of RationalWiki (SJW Wikipedia). I think at least one of the moderators might be his sock puppet.

>>12813348
whenever /r/buttcoin makes fun of us i like to imagine their faces when they realize just how rich they would have been today if they had invested just a little bit in bitcoin during 2014 instead of simply laughing at people losing money

>>12813361
It's a ponzi scam until you can cash it out for material goods. After that, it's currency.

>>12813391
So a tranny shitposter on buttcoin reported you so many times you got banned? AhhhahahhahahAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAH

>>12813420
Nope because it will never ever be widely used as currency. Its a meme.

>>12813348
>TFW I got called "a libertarian piece of shit retard" on /r/buttcoin in 2015
Becoming stinking rich truly is the best form of revenge.

>>12813462
You are still a libertarian piece of shit retard. Now you are just a rich one.

>>12813456
You think all crypto is useless? You truly don’t see the value in being able to send value directly to someone without intermediaries or real fees? A currency whose supply can’t be manipulated? Really? I just wonder why so many people don’t get it. I work with a bunch of smart dudes and maybe 5 are invested in crypto, the rest just don’t understand it

>>12813472
You're okay, anon. I'll make sure you are spared from fighting in the sparring pits when Cryptopia is established.

>>12813485
B-b-b-but /biz/ told me we are all late adopters!

Bitcoin? More like niggercoin lol

Value store and transfer across borders and without banking intermediaries = value.

It's not complex people, it's not hard

>>12813348
r/buttcoin
"missing the best financial opportunity of a lifetime, since 2011"

holy shit that reddit still exists
i think they were defeated and they continue to be defeated unless bitcoins value is 10 us cent

>>12813361
>I will unironically tell you why OP. Its because bitcoin is a meme which is unbacked and has a ponzi scam. There is no use. It is all greater fools wishing to sell to a fool for more fiat. That is literally it. This leads to bubbles but will eventually crash to 0. Bitcoin is useless and worthless unless your a criminal. Period.
I think crypto-currency in general is over-valued by the market. The vast majority of the demand is driven by speculation rather than practical use. But I don't think it's useless and I don't see it going to 0. I am OP, my IP changed. And a lot of the arguments I see on r/buttcoin are moralfag horseshit.
>Muh Profitting off greater fools is immoral
>Muh Money Laundering. Let's not allow people to buy drugs not regulated and taxed by the state.
>Muh Tax Evasion. Who else is gonna pay for my wife's son and my government job salary? How else is glorious AOC supposed to give us gibs?

>>12813578
This is what I tell people and they’re still too stupid to understand it.

>but it’s free to send money with Venmo!
>credit card transactions are INSTANTLY SETTLED, crypto will never be able to scale.

>>12813361
>>12813624
LOL I actually forgot to mention why crypto isn't going to 0:
Crypto is useful if you want to make anonymous payments - especially if you want to do something very illegal (but you don't necessarily need to be doing something illegal for crypto to be valuable).

Like I'm not gonna pay for my VPN or 4chan pass with credit card. I kinda don't want my identity to be tied to my shitposting. And you need a court order in order to have an outside chance of being able to link a bitcoin address to an identity. If you actually used that address with a bitcoin exchange at all in your life.

I also prefer to use bitcoin for playing poker. Since banks are notorious for freezing your credit cards when making deposits to gambling sites. And crypto casinos often don't require any KYC whereas fiat casinos want Photo ID and a utility bill or bank statement.

Crypto is also more friendly for e-thots. PayPal has deactivated thots that got reported.

Crypto is more friendly to content creators like Sargon of Akaad and Milo.

If you want to make digital trades with someone online or donations but you're afraid of getting doxxed, you don't want to be using PayPal since PayPal will reveal the full name of the sender/recipient.

There are a number of practical uses for crypto that aren't even illegal.

And obviously crypto is better for buying and selling drugs. No shit.

>>12813485
The only reason needed to send value directly to someone without intermediers for 99.999% of people is if they are doing something illegal. Think about it. Why the fuck would a normal person ever need to send someone $1000s of dolllars overseas if the bank would reject it? Only if they are doing something illegal. Otherwise they could just use a normal fucking transfer and it works fine.

>>12813624
The reason it will go to 0 is its ultimately a greater fools game and all the participants know it. Once it starts crashing to the point of no return the large whales will run for the exits and the market will immediately flash crash to 0. At this point the miners will also flee in mass abandon and the network security will be gone. Its going to 0.

>>12813692
Yeah so again the only reason you are using crypto there is for something shady you don't want to be associated with. Thats literally it. But this use quickly falls apart once you realize the regulators will make sure that all registered exchanges use full KYC and monitor all your withdrawal and transaction activity. They will use blockchain analysis to track everything. So it ends up just being like the normal system where your identity is still tied to your activity. Therefore it defeats the whole purpose.

>>12813653
>This is what I tell people and they’re still too stupid to understand it.
>but it’s free to send money with Venmo!
>credit card transactions are INSTANTLY SETTLED, crypto will never be able to scale.
If someone doesn't see value in being able to send money to anyone around the world pseudonymously (anonymously with monero) without needing permission from a bank or payment processor to do so, they are not crypto's target audience.

Crypto appeals to libertarians and people who value privacy, individual liberty and freedom of expression. I'm not even a full-blown libertarian. But do I think that the government and banks have too much control over our lives? Absolutely. You're not going to see me fight for tax cuts for billionaires. But I don't want the government in MY POCKET. I don't want the government or banks to dictate what I can and can not do with my motherfucking money unless what I want to do violates the N.A.P. Like buying child porn with monero is immoral (unless you're one of those "what if the child consents tho?" libertarians). But if I want to buy drugs or I want to donate to Sargon of Akaad or I want to fuck a hooker, what's the harm in that?

>>12813841
How are all my use cases I listed above shady? That is subjective. lol.

I don't want to tie my identity to my 4chan pass because we live in a SJW shithole society that doesn't value freedom of expression. If the antifa find out that you are posting politically incorrect things online, they try to find out who you work for and get you fired (unless you're a crypto-NEET like me).

I like using VPNs and use crypto to pay for VPNs because I like my privacy. I'm tired of these glow in the dark faggots at (((Silicon Valley))) monitoring us.

Online gambling isn't illegal here. But the banks and card issuers frown upon online gambling. In the terms of service, it says I'm not allowed to use my prepaid (((Visa))) and prepaid (((Mastercard))) to gamble. And I've had my (((credit card))) frozen numerous times for making deposits to Skrill (popular payment processor for bookies). I hate having to give my Photo ID and bank statement to fiat casinos. Many crypto casinos don't require KYC. Or they don't start requiring it until you need to make large withdrawals. It's reasonable for poker players, punters, etc. to want their privacy. I'm not money laundering or anything. I just want the banks, payment processors and government to get off my dick and let me gamble in peace.

I'm not a cuck to be sending shekels to e-thots. But if that is what you want to do, that is your right. If I had a vagina, i would become an e-thot.

Sargon of Akaad & Milo shady is opinion

If you want to do trades with people on 4chan and similar communities or you want to accept donations on your redpilled YouTube channel, you don't want to accept PayPal. Or else you may get doxxed since PayPal reveals your name.

To be fair it's true that when regulations get more strict, we may have to move on to something truly anonymous like Monero. As things stand out, no one can tie my bitcoin address to 4chan or my VPN. If I was selling drugs, cp or doing cc/bank fraud, then monero for sure.

>>12814126
And all of this will be shut down or regulated soon. If you pay for a VPN or other service online with bitccoin what do you do if they don't give it to you? What if they scam you and don't give what you payed for? You have no recourse because bitcoin payments are not reversible. Therefore it is obvious this will never take of outside of very niche and worthless payments. No serious transactions can ever be trusted this way without regulation and the possibility to reverse, which requires things like KYC and other regulations. This again just goes back to square one which is that cryptocurrencies are useless and will have to be regulated to tie everything to people's identity other then tiny and irrelevent niches.

>>12813841
Banks are the shady thing i don't want to be associated with

>>12813348
Trust me dude

>>12813692
>gold account icon
you actually pay 4chan's extortion demand...?

>>12814174
>If you pay for a VPN or other service online with bitccoin what do you do if they don't give it to you? What if they scam you and don't give what you payed for? You have no recourse because bitcoin payments are not reversible.
When you're dealing with crypto, you need to exercise risk management. I trust that my VPN provider or that 4chan is not going to just take my crypto-shekels and not provide me the service I paid for. You can do research online to find out if the service provider has a history of scamming people.

If you don't trust the service/goods provider, you need to use a trusted third-party escrow agent service like Localbitcoins, OpenBazaar or (for the shady stuff) Dream Market (Yes I know Localbitcoins is mostly for exchanging crypto for fiat but you can barter on LBC technically.)

If you trust OpenBazaar but you don't trust the vendor, you can have OpenBazaar hold onto your coins until the package arrives in the mail. Then you can release the bitcoins and give the vendor a review. If you refuse to release after receiving the item, the vendor can dispute. If the vendor doesn't give you what you ordered, you can dispute.

>Therefore it is obvious this will never take of outside of very niche and worthless payments. No serious transactions can ever be trusted this way without regulation and the possibility to reverse, which requires things like KYC and other regulations. This again just goes back to square one which is that cryptocurrencies are useless and will have to be regulated to tie everything to people's identity other then tiny and irrelevent niches.
I don't think crypto will be more than niche either. But it's not worthless. Anonymous/Psuedonymous, censorship-resistant immutable permission-less transactions have some value to some people. I actually consider myself a crypto bear. But r/buttcoin is hardcore "ORANGE COIN BAD" without any nuance. I can at least see the positive cases for bitcoin and crypto in general.

>>12814224
Ok so you have something in common with criminals which 99.9% of people dont care about and will never need. Banks paypal and venmo work perfectly fine for them.

>>12814238
>paladin not flinging hammers everywhere
they're not going to make it

>>12814248
you believe the law is objective morality? barely a generation ago it would have been a crime for me to marry a black woman.

>>12814239
Your positive things mostly all boils down to things only hardcore libertarians agree with and most people think should are bad and should be illegal. Many people would even have a problem with VPN or 4chan but even if they don't, still it doesn't matter because the network is not decentralized at all and is controlled by mining pools in China. So it's still no different then trusting paypal or a bank.

>>12814271
No but I believe money regulations and protections are there for good reason.

>>12814254
Look at the signature. This painting was done in 2001. Blessed hammer wasn't useful until at least patch 1.10. You absolute PLEB.

>>12814238
>you actually pay 4chan's extortion demand...?
4chan, with its risque content, doesn't attract the quality of advertising and advertising dollars that the SJW cucks over at Reddit do. Like you have fucking hentai ads on 4chan ffs. So I can understand why this Japanese cartoon message board would need some shekels to keep their operations going.

Meanwhile Reddit's Premium pass is more expensive and they gave me a 3 day global ban for telling someone on r/buttcoin kys. Fuck Reddit. So giving 4chan shekels is like a big fuck you to the establishment social media. Donations are the reason why 4chan hasn't been over-run by SJWs. You're also doing labour for free for Google by filling in all those captchas. The captchas are so fucking annoying. I wonder how much time a regular 4chan users spends on captchas per year.

>>12814278
so we dont have to pay for a bank bailout when all their bullshit those regulations and protections did nothing to prevent collapses? oh wait

>>12814273
Nah internet monies are fresh and hip. Plenty of people are catching onto the fiat scam and crypto provides an avenue of direct revolt against the system. Personally I think BTC is futureproof. It's only getting more popular.

>>12814316
Well first of all that rarely happens. And second of all the solution of that is better regulations and stricter punishment for people and companies who violate the rules. The solution is not to promote a chaotic wild west system where fraud and scams and theft are even more common.

>>12814324
You call it the fiat scam but it has worked fine for many people across the world for a long time now. So what is the scam exactly? You are probably talking about corrupt governments but that problem is not solved by crypto. The solution is to have better overall governments and less corruption.

>>12814280

>>12814351
what's your main reddit id?

>>12814382
Why do you ask?

>>12814331
but the point is people at the top weild so much capability they have the resouces to avoid detection/corrupt government, most likely having a direct hand in what the regulations themselves actually are. At least in a 'wild west' scenario everybodies got a crack at it, not just the bloodlines that have been on top for generations.

>>12814422
No because it is inevitable and the only thing to do is better regulations. Just look at what is happening with all cryptos. The whole market is controlled and manipulated by whales, corrupt exchanges and corrupt insiders. So there is actually still just as many problems but there is also no regulation or way to get your money back if your scammed.

>>12814351
>it has worked fine for many people across the world for a long time now.
lmao we owe the banks $16 trillion from the last round of bailouts the system doesn't work fine in fact it's designed to fail they just labeled the failure "the business cycle". In fact the entire international banking system is the work of communists.
<https://www.scribd.com/doc/60553686/GAO-Fed-Investigation#outer_page_144
I'd rather ride or die with these brave pioneers than submit to the unjust tyranny that is the fractional reserve banking scam.

>>12814459
Actually top economsits and other scholars have studied this for a long fucking time and they all agree the best idea is the way it is now. Only the consipracy theorists and hippy types think Austrian economics is a good idea.

>>12814331
>rarely
crashes in 1921 and 1929, great depression from '29 to '39, recessions of '53, '57, '69, '75, and '81, black monday in '87, great recession in '08 and a 1000% inflation which destroyed 90% of the dollars purchasing power

>>12814395
it would be nice to engage in this debate in a forum that is more formalized. I hate getting invested in 4chan debates because it just 404s or gets ignored.... you put in all this effort into proving your arguments and then you have nothing to show for it. I'd prefer to have this discussion over on reddit.

>>12814479
>akshually
>top economists
>conspiracy theorists
desu just go back to r3ddit you're clearly out of your depth here it must be like talking martians from inter-space

>>12813841
No, most of us are not criminals, that is media propaganda.

Also this is also about storing/salvaging value before the this $400Trillion monster explodes during the downturn during the next part of the financial cycle.

Everything else is overvalued, Crypto as a proportion of total global assets is still a drop in the ocean

>>12813499
Based

>>12814299
if you paid just to get no ads + a "i support 4chan"-icon or something else that truly is trivial then i wouldn't have a problem with it

but instead it was "ok we need captcha to deal with spam, let's adopt the laziest possible solution and require it on every single fucking post, hey btw pay us money and you don't need to solve captcha". then they started restricting how often you could post with long cooldowns, unless of course you pay for a gold account. that's why i call it extortion. there's a reason nobody bothers to image dump nowadays.

>>12814626
>No, most of us are not criminals, that is media propaganda.
>Also this is also about storing/salvaging value before the this $400Trillion monster explodes during the downturn during the next part of the financial cycle.
>Everything else is overvalued, Crypto as a proportion of total global assets is still a drop in the ocean
Why not invest in commodities as an alternative to crypto then if you have lost faith in fiat and the stock market? Commodities like land, oil and wheat have far more real life use value than crypto. That's not to say that crypto is useless. But the vast majority of people buying crypto now are speculators. Not people who are using it.
When shit hits the fan, access to productive farmland, oil, etc. is going to be very valuable.

And by land I mean actual land, not (((real estate))). The housing bubble killed a ton of people. I am thinking about buying a cheap plot of land in the middle of nowhere and buying or building a mobile home to put on top of that land.

>>12814273
>Your positive things mostly all boils down to things only hardcore libertarians agree with and most people think should are bad and should be illegal.

I don't even consider myself a hardcore libertarian. I would say I'm libertarian-lite maybe. I believe that there is a role for government in our society. But I feel that the size of government is too big in certain areas and taxes are too high for the ordinary man. High income inequality is correlated with high crime rates. But for as much as TYT and liberal cucks praise Sweden, Sweden decided to tax a crypto trader with a 0-cost basis (for his buys) for his bitcoins. Which is absolutely ridiculous. If Sweden's government will fuck him over like that, you don't think AOC would fuck us over just the same? She and Bernie Sanders hold up Sweden and Denmark as a beacon of greatness. Meanwhile the tax authorities in Sweden and Denmark are notoriously corrupt and they tax wage cucks, small business owners, investors and traders (not just rich people, wage cucks) to death in those countries.

I think I'm like a Dave Rubin or Sam Harris libertarian/classic liberal. I think I'm to the left of them on economics. But at the same time when I see Swedish tax authorities abuse their authority to extort their citizens beyond any level of fairness, that brings out my inner ancap a bit I gotta admit. I don't mind raising taxes on the rich. But shit has to be fair. Tax authorities are notoriously corrupt and I don't trust them. The anti-crypto SJWs are either W-2 wage cucks who get taxed at the source. Or they're unemployed antifa cucks. So naturally they aren't capable of feeling empathy when someone gets fucked over on their taxes.

>>12814273
>Many people would even have a problem with VPN or 4chan but even if they don't
People who want to ban VPNs and ban 4chan from the internet are statist authoritarians that deserve the very statist boot they want to impose on other people down their own fucking necks. I hope the statists are forced to watch their wives and daughters get culturally enriched Malmo style one of these days.

>still it doesn't matter because the network is not decentralized at all and is controlled by mining pools in China. So it's still no different then trusting paypal or a bank.
The centralization of mining is a valid point. If you are really paranoid about having your privacy compromised, you need to use a VPN while you're transacting in crypto and you need to use monero or mixers to wash/tumble coins.

Bitcoin and crypto are just memes, but they are still going to be profitable for a while. Eventually it’s hype will die down because it will never be adopted. Bitcoin and crypto haters are right, but they are also idiots for not wanting gains because of “muh ponzi”.