/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>12804271

People were taxed in Rome in exchange for military protection. If a government exists, it will fund itself, otherwise it wouldn't exist. Nice logic op

Have to pay the military/fire/police for keeping you safe while you do stuff with your new goat.

>>12804307
Someone give this anon a
>You, The Point, Missed it
image

>>12804271
this is like the "prostitution is just porn with no camera" argument

>shouldn't be
A "government" is just the dominant criminal cartel for a given geographic area. You can "shouldn't" all you fucking like, they will take your shit or they will lock you up or kill you.

>>12804271
Do you not realize we tax objects based on their value as well? Your labor is taxed in the same fashion we tax items, based on your labors value which you and your employer agree to.

>>12804271
Paying property, value added and resource taxes makes sense
Property to fund the protection of your property and your country's lands - firefighting, army, police. Call it the FAP tax.
Value added to give the government enough money to silence everyone you're displacing with superior technology, processes, business models
Resource taxes to disincentivise you from using more raw resources than you can afford.
Everything else is kinda bs.

>>12804313
>value added tax makes sense
no you pathetic faggot cuck, VAT does not 'make sense'. there is no value add by mommy govt.
>resource taxes to make sense.
no they do not you socialist faggot piece of shit... tax the shit out of you so that you can't afford to do things. this is why scandinavia is a fucking dead market where capitalism can barely function. there is a reason that the US is where innovation is happening.

>>12804271
>I shouldn't be taxed on my wages.
Then don't pay them. I'm sure you'll enjoy your time in prison.

>>12804592
I'd prefer not having those taxes. What do you think is the right approach that balances between our superior economic potential/position and the wavecuck despair of the remaining 90%

>>12804592
For me, the problem is the income tax in all its shapes and forms. It's a relic of the past, even if people haven't quite realized that yet. It needs to go. I assume that something must partially replace it to make the transition possible. This assumption might be wrong, of course

>>12804659
tax income at a lowish rate, property tax, no wealth tax (double taxation is immoral and there is no excuse for it), no death tax (double taxation is immoral and it is a tool for jealous people to fuck the successful and productive). eliminate welfare. do not allow economic migrants into the country. do not allow refugees if they are not fleeing persecution from a country with a direct border (as is international law). do not have massive govt employment projects (norway has this and it is fucking insane, the sheer number of people employed by city and county govts is beyond stupid). less govt, more free market. you'll get more free market when the govt tax theft hose isn't shoved so deeply up everyone's ass.

>>12804340
How so? Never heard that one. Prostitution between two consenting adults should be none of your concern. Prostitution laws are religious dogma that spilled over into secular society.

I think OP is onto something...

>>12804271
To be honest I don't care about whether or not tax is legitimate or not. I decided I don't want to fund a welfare state and Israel anymore, so now I only get paid and transact between cash and cryptocurrency using wallets with no ties to my identity. Deal with it kikes.

>>12804313
>reading comprehension
>income tax
>not all tax

>>12804342
I assumed it was clear I was talking about the U.S. government. We're allowed to discuss things here that we don't like about them. Tough break being born in a shithole, anon.

Definition of income: money received, especially on a regular basis, for work or through investments.

So if i get paid in crypto which isnt money and dont cash out but instead purchase stuff with said crypto there should never be a realized tax. Is this correct?

>>12804271
>Refute this
Income tax is abolished. Your $50 an hour wage becomes $35 an hour wage. Now you have no taxes, but also less wage. Oops, now who will you blame?

>>12804362
As if items have a constant value to those who own and sell them. Using the fence example, if I own a larger fencing company than some other company, the fencing I provide in exchange for the drafting of the will is of a different cost than what the other smaller company would pay, as well as different opportunity cost (the loss in exchange dollars that I give up in order to provide the lawyer with a service). A price is a measure of what something costs to an individual to produce vs what a consumer is willing to pay. To say something has an inherent value that a third party (the government) can just come and pin on it is a misunderstanding of how basic economic transactions work. Fuck the IRS

>>12804806
>Why do my wages have to decrease and when was blame assigned?
What if Americans were just 30%-50% richer on average, and bought more shit on the international market, and travelled more?

>>12804271
tax is theft. the government cant survive without taxes

>>12804702
There is nothing inherently immoral about “double taxation”. If the government wants to want your money once, they can do it twice. They can do it five times. It’s all the same. Also even a 99% income tax would only slow, not prevent, limitless wealth accumulation by the highest tiers.

>>12804886
This. Read Leviathan OP.

>>12804307

We're talking about the individual income tax. Once you get a little older, you'll learn the differences.
>The individual income tax pays the interest on the national debt.

Wars are paid for with the corporate tax and debt. Courts and sheriffs are paid for with property tax and filing fees. FICA is mandatory social security contributions. Roads are paid for with gas and tire taxes, and tag registration fees. Municipal services are paid for with property and sales tax.

>>12804886
There is nothing inherently immoral about “double taxation”.
Sure there is. Just like single taxation of wages is immoral.

>>12804271
Times like this are when I remind myself that North Korea has no income tax.

Why should anyone pay tax when they are already affected by inflation caused by Jews printing up money for themselves?

>>12804271
When you do $400 of work, you never get paid that much. Your employer will give you only $100. So he should be taxed, not you.

>>12804271
You are supposed to pay tax on all of those events.
IRS wants a percentage in cash of the value you derived. So I in the case of the fence traded for will, both the carpenter and the lawyer have to pay the current tax rate on that $500 as the services they received could as income. Maybe $100 they have to find from somewhere and give to the tax man. Yes, even though no money was involved the trade, they still have to find money to pay their taxes. "It's only your fair share"
The only reason these events are not normally taxed is they are hidden. Aka tax fraud.
There is no escape from taxation, and the massive crippling slowdown it places on everyone and everything. You are now starting to see the appeal of Bitcoin Cash.

run for congress op, we’d be rooting for you

>buy things = tax
>sell things = tax
>own property = tax
>work = tax
>invest = tax
>pay rent = tax
>own a car = tax
>invest = tax

>>12804271
Bartering apps and crypto

Times are changing...

>>12804271
>If chickens are worth $3 each, and a goat is worth $15, and you trade me 5 chickens for one goat, then neither of us gained.
Wrong

>If I'm a lawyer, and I charge $500 for a will; and you're a carpenter, and you charge $500 for a wooden fence, and I agree to draft a will for you, and you agree to build me a fence, then no taxable event occurred.
Wrong

Bartering is taxed

You can tell the IRS you are a "trader" and they won't give a shit. If that worked, then everybody would say they are a trader and no income tax would be collected. Muh morality doesn't matter at this point. This is about their power over you to collect taxes on behalf of the US government.

Crypto can be a way to hide economic activity in the short/medium term but the IRS will catch up eventually.

Libertarians gotta fuck off

>>12804271
you traded services not for other services, but for a commodity.

>>12804271
Everything there is a wishful fantasy. Bartering is taxed in the USA, all 3 of those are taxed.

>>12804271
I propose a 20% flat sales tax.

No more filing taxes.

Also.

1 state = 1 vote. We are a union of states.

>>12804751
Prostitution laws are to protect the family unit, which is the foundation for literally every successful society to ever exist.

>>12804271
Before the second world war, the lowest tax bracket was 1.5%. This was enough for roads, police, etc.

By the end of WW2, the lowest tax bracket shot up to 24% (and the highest earners paid 96%).

in 1946 it only dropped back down to 20%, nowhere near the pre-war levels of 1.5%.

Kennedy dropped the rate to 17%, but the juden got to him.

The rest is history

>>12805292
>BitCoin Cash
You're always so weird about this shit. You mean BTC, not your DogeCoin ripoff. It's like you have a massive problem of no one having adhesives and only using nails, but instead of telling everyone the real solution is Tape, you say it's printed pictures of tape. Skip the fake shit and talk about the actual product.

>>12805669
>family unit

that died with the baby boomers. Combination of easy porn and second wave feminism. Its simply easier for young men to go their own way and not stress it.

>>12805665
England did that. They removed all taxes for a 20% VAT. They forgot future generations would be greedy and impose other taxes. Now they're taxed more than the USA on everything, PLUS a 20% sales tax.

Tax 10% of all earnings over 1 mil a year, and a hefty sale tax on any goods made or produced overseas. If your state can't run on that it's too big.

>>12804787
What do you think happens in the US if you politely refuse to pay taxes?

>>12805689
Nah England never did that mate.

>>12804271
Whenever a trade takes place BOTH parties gain utility from the transaction. That's the piece of the puzzle you seem to be missing. Also, this >>12805540.

>>12804751
Prostitution should be legal for single men but illegal for married men, this is in a perfect society though, in today's society, girls are encouraged to suck 20 tyrones in a single college party, why is prostitution still illegal in cuckerica is beyond me

>>12804979
This. Everyone ITT thinking most people are paid fairly when in reality median wage has not increased to keep up with inflation.

>>12805472
Solution: don't do any of these.

>>12804271
In Germany you pay taxes in all three events. Probably anywhere else too fag

>>12804271
>Refute this
Your argument is so bad, you can refute it easily after reading a 5min introduction into tax law and accounting.

>If chickens are worth $3 each, and a goat is worth $15, and you trade me 5 chickens for one goat, then neither of us gained.
Works only if both are commercial animal traders/farmers. If you're just a goat herder and you exchange with someone who is just a chicken farmer then it's taxable. 5 chickens for a goat herder is not a business expense, so you have 15 bucks worth of income you have to tax. The realistic view is that this transaction would simply not be recorded and reported, but in theory this is absolutely taxable in the vast majority of scenarios.

>If I'm a lawyer, and I charge $500 for a will; and you're a carpenter, and you charge $500 for a wooden fence, and I agree to draft a will for you, and you agree to build me a fence, then no taxable event occurred.
Same thing, works in almost no real world scenario. Lawyer would have to have his firm housed in a separate building that needed a fence. If the carpenter just builds a fence for a private property of the lawyer, the lawyer can't deduct the cost but would still have $500 income from services rendered.

>If I have labor that is worth $50 per hour, and I work for 8 hours, and you pay me $400, nobody gained.
And again, same thing. Since the profit goes towards your private living and not any business of yours, you can't deduct the (fictional) cost of labor and you end up with just income with nothing to balance against.

You can call this a scam and unfair, but they've thought about it. Way more than you have, because your post contains stupid assumptions and mistakes a first semester business student shouldn't make.

Wow so many tax cucks in this thread, wtf happened to biz? Jesus

>>12804271
Without tax society would completely break down and you faggots would be the first to complain. Libertarianism is so retarded it hasn't even been tried.

>>12807058
You're a dummy, there is no net positive with government. It's literally a net drain on society. Government

Gov equals control

Mend equals mind

Government is mind control you fucking dumbass sheep

>>12807078

I'm not saying the government is all good. Far from it. But things would undoubtedly be much worse without some form of government. To think large organised society can exist without some form of central power is beyond retarded.

>>12807058
Yep. Children on /biz has never been to a third world country and experienced what humanity is like at its core without guidance from civilization. Libertarianism = sucking koch brothers' dicks while fucking yourself

>>12807098
Society exists DESPITE government existing.

>>12807101
Third world countries are like that because the world controlling Elite deem it that way. You sheep. Government is how the Elite control the dumb masses like you

then why involve the fiat?

>>12807121
take your delusions and go back to /pol please

>>12807121
Absolute conspiritard. How would liberarianism organise a functioning society? Pro tip: it wouldn't.

>>12804271
The 16th amendment was never rattified. The IRS is a sham. The federal reserve is a privately owned bank, also "allowed" by the 16th The IRS is the debt collection arm of the federal reserve.
100% of income taxes goes toward paying the DEBT OF INTEREST "owed" to the fed. None goes to roads, or police, or military, or schools
Sales tax, vehicle registration, and lottery pays for those things.
I pay sales tax (hard not too, but it's fair wink wink) I pay registration as that goes to roads, and I buy lottos from time to time as I have kids in school.
I have not filed or paid "federal income tax" in over 30 years. How?
Well, there are two ways legally how to do so.
One, NEVER FILE TAXES IN THE FIRST PLACE!
The Fed and IRS know they have no actual authority, this is why they get you to sign a contract. Most everyone does because who wouldnt want a couple hundred bucks back from your first shit job right? Never file, never sign the contract.
The second way and way most have to do it, is to file a "Dissolution of corporation form"
YOU are a corporate entity, your SSN is your corporate identifier, when you are born the fed open a bank account (your SSN is your bank account number) in your name. This is why I'm "official" govt and court documents yoi r name is ALWAYS in caps, that is your corporate self.
File the form and you kill that corporation and delete your bank account number. Your SSN goes away and the IRS no longer have record of you...or rather your corporation. You will however also not be able to utilize any federal aid, no grants, no DAV. It goes away to. There is also a way to eliminate your BC.
Good luck!

>>12805292
This guy was totally right, until the part about bcash. Roger is really bringing his best...

>>12804271
You’re borrowing a bank’s property and using it as a means of exchange and you wonder why the event is taxed?

Desu....wut is fiat.

>>12804313
You really have no idea where income tax goes. Protip: not to fire or police.

>>12804271
taxes are for poor people (you)

>>12807143
>>12807150
>No government must be libertarianism

Do you even know what libertarianism means? You fucking dumbfuck. This is not about labels. Its about the fact that society exists despite government.

Government contributes nothing positive to society

>MUH ROADS
A functioning community can take care of the roads on their own

>MUH POLICE
Yes the police will instantly teleport to your house as its being robbed and you cower in the corner you fucking dumb sheep

>MUH FIREFIGHTERS
Yes a community cannot organize themselves and have people handle fires

Get fucked you dumb nigger

pic related is you

>>12807098
>To think large organised society can exist without some form of central power is beyond retarded.

Yes say this as Europe is being rapged and pillaged by the hordes of 3rd world immigrants. Your "leaders" sit back, and laugh in your STUPID FUCKING FACE as you sit here and rationalize how society cannot exist without a central power, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Whats that? Some people say you need a military from protection? Protection from fucking what, lmao? Ask any average person on this earth what they want. What do they want?

They want to raise a family and be left the fuck alone. WW2 happened because dumb idiots like you actually believed what they heard on the radio and didnt question what their leaders told them.

But hey, not my problem. Good bye stupid dumb idiot whites, you deserve it. The brownening is upon you. At least the brownies understand who their masters are and their disposition, Whites are just in denial and still believe government is there to "protect" them. Lmao.

>>12807579
An NWA album is a poor substitute for legitimate understanding.

>>12807594

>>12805722
then ppl who make close to that amount per year will simply declare just below 1m and hide the rest in another country with loop holes. income tax is a meme that can be easily bypassed if you're your own boss. all forms of taxation can be avoided actually, just need high iq

>>12805743
There have been a few cases where the jury found them not guilty, and they were exempt from income tax for life.

There's a pending reward for anyone to prove that you have to pay income tax.
>Where is the code section that says income tax is mandatory?

>>12807005
I have an undergrad in finance and I've practiced law for 12 years. I understand the terminology, and the definitions. I disagree. I would've vehemently opposed had I been in Congress for the vote.

>>12807058
Again. Not all tax, individual income tax.

Some of you are so eager to regurgitate your NPC programming that you skip the reading OP for comprehension part.

>>12807098
>To think large organised society can exist without some form of central power is beyond retarded.
>we either have excessive and unjust taxation
>or society completely breaks down to Mad Max and the Thunderdome.
The trusty false dichotomy. Always a reliable falacy when you're at a loss for an actual argument.

>>12807150
There is a licensing board in my state regulating whether a person is licensed to put makeup on another person's face. Libertarian would start to repeal such bullshit. It's a crazy idea to just follow the Constitution, and if there is no constitutional authority, then Congress can't do it. Simple as that. IRS, Depts of Education, labor, energy, EPA, social security, should all be done away with. Tomorrow. The govt sure as fuck wouldn't be able to tell a free man that he can't buy a big gulp at the gas station, or put salt on his food at a restaurant.

And it would be nearly impossible to fight a bullshit war for 18 years with no end in sight. We've always been at war with Oceania.

You shouldn't be taxed on anything ever. It's theft. Use XMR.

>>12807557
>create an organisation that does what government does
>its not government i swear!

Why do Trumptards vote for wealthy tax cuts and believe they deserve to use public assets without paying tax? I thought they were against handouts.

>>12807885
>Of course, because capital hill is a giant firehouse and all congressmen double as firemen and police.

>>12804941
Oi. Then how will the politicians fatten their pockets without the income tax?
It's actually pretty crazy to think that your income is taxed. And then after that your taxed on just about everything else.
Like you mentioned tire/gas tax. VAT blah blah blah. Your literally taxed twice on just about everything and this is some how okay.

This is why neets are superior to wagies

>>12804941
And yet we still have debt, which means those things need anotherr soource of income to fill the gap.

>>12807957
figuratively speaking, thats actually true