/biz/ - Business & Finance

Because it threatens their shitcoin's niche and they're greedy brainlets

lame thrad

>>12717030
>calling someone an NPC when it's clear you are the NPC
And you expect a response? Go fuck yourself.

>>12717030
good bread

ln is literally what we need in this space. it is the normie friendly addition to BTC that will allow the common man to utilize cryptocurrency. Imaging being able to effortlessly send BTC to anyone with an internet connection, while having the benefits of reversible transactions and ways to safeguard your funds.

Having this feature is not in violation of BTC's primary value proposition (trustless, peer to peer, store of value, etc) because BTC can still be used as it always has been. Lightning just offers an additional (albeit non-trustless) settlement layer which will bring BTC adoption to the masses.

>>12717030
Orange coin bad.

>>12717270
NPC rage

It's not. Look when btc had a high mining profitability what was everyone shilling? When it's low what's everyone fuding? If it's more profitable to mine a shit coin and turn it into BTC that's what's happening. The thing is when mining profitability is high it creates an artificial sell wall. People pay bills and employees, allfags gotta live. Right now people are fuding to prolong the buy phase. The impending sell wall on shit coins will be one for the books. Realcoin will be ripe for the pickin and profitablity will surge. Shitcoins will exit scam and the ensuing fomo will push us to an ATH. Get in or dont

>>12717296
subtle, is that pasta? saved lol

>>12717030
Nocoiners are seething brainlets that hate freedom.

>>12717296
>reversible transactions

lmao

They are over-engineered and hard to implement solutions. There are better on chain solutions and BTC just has to shift from POW to survive, but they won't.

>>12717580
NO FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
AHHHHHHHHHHHH
WHY
AM I SO LONELY
AND FUCKING
HORNY
AGHAHWASHDSAHJDJHASFAS
ASDJFKJSKFAJS:FAJSHKFGAKFGHKA:HK
HKAHASJFHASDJLASJLFAGFGSJD
ASFASFUJIWUQOIHASZJFDAWAE

>>12717580
oh dear my nofap streak

>>12717622
my laptop has that exact sticker covering the apple logo

>>12717667
Your gonna lose all your money like this dude.

>>12717030
You've got a lot more shilling to do before the next halving if you are going to meet your price targets. Best get to work. The BSV business model is to make more profit from fees from huge blocks. The bigger the blocks, the more profit. Everything but BSV is dead crypto walking.

>>12717580
nah, top of my head

>>12717030
>Why is Lightning Network bad?
It's not. This is the best shot blockchain has at scaling to mass adoption. Although I think hashgraph will be the "mainstream" coin with bitcoin relegated to the dark web
>Why is Segwit bad?
It's not. You need to segregate the witness to prevent transaction malleability which is needed for ln. Also segwit allows for >1mb blocks, improved signature hashing, improved multisig, etc. Segwit is objectively good

>>12717787
LN is retard reengineering
Segwit breaks the chain rendering it's integrity void
BSV is Bitcoin now and will become the million dollar coin
Screencap this

>>12717986
>bchsv is the poo in the street coin now and will become the million poo coin
>screencrap this

>>12717296
Yeah it used to be that way before blockstream blocked the stream

Why would normalfags want to use this shit. WHy do you faggots want bitcoin to be so goddamn complicated. what kind of normalfag will want to buy bitcoin, set up a node, a watch tower or whatever the fuck, set up lightning etc etc.

if you say use a custodial wallet then the normalfag will just think it's some kind of bank and go back to venmo, which already WORKS

>>12718112
cry some more

>>12718112
autists are obsessed with numbers and can't fathom not being able to verify our central banks ledgers
so they'll be the ones making sure everything is legit while NPC fags will adopt late and utilize a centralized service

>>12718130
also how are you going to explain lightning to a technically illiterate person

"Oh yeah, you set up your wallet, and then you download and run a node, it always has to be online. and you can't send ALL your money. you can only send some pieces of it some time because of channels, and that depends on how much you spend where"

the normalfag will look at you like you're crazy.

>>12718112
what's interesting is after eltoo and watchtowers LN will have custodial wallets available for mobile
so it will be as simple as using cash but still some NPCs will use coinbase node or whatever

>>12718164
then it's literally using a bank. you went full circle back to bank hood. holy fucking deluded

>>12718155
BITCOIN IS NOT FOR BRAINLETS! NORMIES CAN GO FUCK OFF!

>>12718171
you don't understand any of this lol jesus christ the brainlets here

>>12718171
actually I missed one word my bad
eltoo and watchtowers allows non-custodial* wallets
while NPCs will use a custodial service

>>12718155
>how are you going to explain tcp/ip to a technically illiterate person?

>>12718194
The only way for that to work if you abstract it all away with a custodial wallet. then guess what chimp? you just went back to have a bank account. the point is you own your own money. Normalfags will never use this shit, not in a hundred years

>>12718207
>Normalfags will never use this shit, not in a hundred years

>>12718219

>>12717986
>>12718014
Capped. Which of these two worldviews eventually wins out is the most interesting question of our day, lads. Personally, I think BSV is the best risk/reward of all the current offerings.
Whoever wins, this cap should be pretty lulzy in a few years.

>>12718242
cringe

>>12717030
They aren't bad.

It's small block sizes so poor people aren't able to do small transactions. This forces them on the lightning network, which basically means they don't own the bitcoin anymore and need to borrow it from others, or force to use their channels and pay them fees.

>>12718253
>Brainwashed to perfection.

>>12717030
I want to test out LN. Whats the best wallet?

>>12718256
big blocks centralize who can verify the network and it's proven it can't scale
if you want another central bank shitcoin support big blocks

>>12718262
didnt luke jr wanna reduce the blocksize to 800 KB? KEK. this coin is a joke. i feel bad for any deluded fuck who still is pro bitcoin

>>12718262
bcash 3% security and worth of bitcoin
makes propaganda about a guy cited by satoshi in the white paper
the absolute state of cringe pajeets

>>12718284
the fact that you retards keep bringing up bcash when nobody mentions it proves you're afraid of it

>>12718287
you fags post lies and bullshit daily and it never catches on
the fact you have to attack the most secure and decentralized project speaks volumes on your fear of bitcoin

>>12718301
>you fags
lol
I literally dont think any crypto can scale
to me it's all shit
i sold all my coins months ago because no project can prove it can compete with paypal in transactions per second. Ethereum is a scam and even bcash can't move more than 100 tx/s.
when a coin can actually compete with visa I will buy, but none can

>>12718273
It is really sad what has happened. If only Gavin had never stepped down. If only Jihan hadn't been such a goddamn retard and used his hashpower to nip the small blocker nonsense in the bud, things might have turned out differently, but here we are. Real PoW with a static protocol is going to win out eventually, but the path we are taking is certainly not the most direct one.

>>12718319
then why are you commenting on my response to a cashie
btw lighting scales past visa

>>12718155
Are you a literal retard? You dont run your own goddamn LN node. You need a professional server to handle that. Professional financial companies well set up a node that millions of people all connect to. So all you have to do is set up a connection with their node, which will be seamless because its built into whatever wallet you have downloaded. Then they in turn have connections to every other major node company like themselves. So the entire world can connect in no more than 4 hops across the network.

>>12717777

>>12718319
>I literally dont think any crypto can scale
>to me it's all shit
>i sold all my coins months ago
The true face of Satoj's vision. Take a good look, pageets, this is the quality of person beside you in the trenches.

>>12718320
gavin met with the CIA and got paid off
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6652.0
it's no coincidence he vouched for craig and tried to dismantle the project in many ways since then

miners were proven to be simply service providers
jihan's acts cost bitmain billions of dollars and he was fired from the company for being a chink retard

>>12718338
what advantages does this give over a bank account?
>>12718330
because bitcoin took a gamble with small blocks and 2nd layer while bitcoin cash took a gamble with big blocks, but now as time goes on it looks more like the big blocks will edge out, just because they're easier to use and maybe some hitherto unseen update will fix block propagation. lightning is dead in the water with pathetic growth.

still no coin can scale right now

>>12718207
Nope! That is not how multisig wallets work. The node cannot spend your money without your signature. At any point you (or anyone else) can send the latest settlement statement to get all your money back on chain. Its no different than a normal wallet if you want to do normal, on chain transactions.

>>12718353
the big block camp is holding 3% value and has no direction lol
how new are you?

>>12718361
why does that matter? neither coin can scale so I don't care. everything is going to 0 in my eyes

>>12718353
No one can spend it except you. The node needs your signature plus their own to execute any transaction. You can upload the latest settlement to the network whenever you want to pull all your money out and there is nothing they can do to stop you. Its no different than a regular bitcoin address, but it allows you to use LN if you want.

>>12717622
they already did. it's called bitcoin green.

>>12718347
>Gavin is CIA

>chink retard
On that, we can at least agree.

>>12717030
LN takes all the fees offchain. What happens in 9 years when the block rewards are 1.5625? Better hope BTC is worth over 100k to keep that hash rate up. What happens another 8 years after that when the block reward is 0.390625BTC?

Without fees to miners bitcoin is not sustainable. That is obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Core will end up increasing the inflation rate past 21million. It's the only way they can maintain their hash rate over time. This is a 100% guarantee with the LN.

>>12718271
>big blocks centralize who can verify the network and it's proven it can't scale


>ACTUALLY believes people can't afford 2TB hard drives

it's 2019

>>12718385
RSK is merge mined
the future of some sidechains will use bitcoin miner's security to secure their specified sidechains
these mining fees will go towards the block reward
we have ~9-13 years to develop these out
rootstock network has like 15 times more hashing power security than bcash

>>12718416
ever hear of bandwidth?

>>12718416
Yeah, the whole "Bitcoin can't scale because god forbid we require robust miner nodes" narrative is just so tiresome. It needs to die, yet the retards propagate it, day in and day out.

>>12718194

Your IP address is like your postal address on the internet.

You are a fucking tard

>>12718320
I prefer this shitshow happening now than with btc @ 100k$.

>>12717622
this

>>12718420
>bitcoin is the greatest invention of our lifetime
>bitcoin is so shit we have to stack 12 different technologies ontop of it for it to function as a peer-to-peer cash outlines in the whitepaper

pick one

>>12717986
it doesn't matter anymore. The bcash/bsv split destroyed the credibility of alternatives.

>>12718239
holy kek

>>12718271
>big blocks centralize who can verify the network
an 8tb drive is $150 now, fuck off kike

>>12718273
>>12718486
>>12718320
what will happen? how will we return to real "PoW with a static protocol"?

If both of these things suck, it doesn't matter because BTC the only truly decentralized crypto

>>12718430
An 8MB block every 12 minutes means you need an internet connection of at least 12kb/s. That's literally dial-up tier. Dial-up can reach 56kb/s.


GET YOUR FUCKING HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES AND DO SOME MATH BEFORE POSTING I'M TIRED OF DEBATING THIS SHIT

>>12718353
Lightning would provide an advantage to those living in countries which are currently under-supported by the finance industry, or those who do not have access to bank accounts.

Think about it, anyone in the world with an internet connection can now send and receive money for almost nothing. Paypal and Venmo can't do that, as they are dependent upon the global banking system to function, and therefore geographically limited.

hell, someone with dialup, assuming they have all the blocks downloaded, could technically process 32mb blocks. EVEN then, there's still 0-conf transactions, so this debate is just dumb

>>12718582
block propagation has nothing to do with bandwidth. Even if you wanted to send a 120 mb block it would take hours to propagate

>>12718096
honestly, if BTC pumps SV will probably follow too, kek, might as well hedge with SV, it's win win

>>12718605
To my understanding the bitcoin mining software just needs to be updated to be multi-threaded. Back in 2009 multithreaded CPUs werent as common as they are now.

>>12718662
The current vector of attack is changing the software so less information needs to be propagated. But I imagine making bitcoin multi-threaded would involve rewriting everything from the ground up

Literally useless. NO ONE uses Bitcoin for payments.

The few people who do use Bitcoin to transact use it for buying illegal shit. They obviously won’t use Lightning and risk exposing their identities to use it when the Bitcoin blockchain works fine. It doesn’t matter whether it takes 1 second or 10 hours to confirm when you’re buying illegal shit online.

How does Lightning verify if transactions are accurate if there is no mining?

>>12718751
Sent ;)

>>12717030
Why SegWit is bad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoFb3mcxluY

Why the Lightning Network is bad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFZOrtlQXWc

>>12717030
Why Blockstream is bad:

Investor in Blockstream: AXA, see this link:
https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/blockstream/investors/investors_list

CEO of AXA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Buberl

Former CEO of AXA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_de_Castries

Both of whom happen to be in the Bilderberg meetings:
https://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/participants2017.html

The earlier CEO is even:
CHAIRMAN STEERING COMMITTEE
Castries, Henri de (FRA), President of Institut Montaigne; Former Chairman and CEO, AXA

>>12717030
Why BTC (Core) is bad, the high fees of December 2017 were BY DESIGN:
https://www.weusecoins.com/gregory-maxwell-bitcoin-expert/

Who is Gregory Maxwell, you ask? Well glad you asked, a BTC Core developer and CTO of Blockstream:
https://www.weusecoins.com/gregory-maxwell-bitcoin-expert/

>>12718836
Sorry, wrong first link, let me try again:

Why BTC (Core) is bad, the high fees of December 2017 were BY DESIGN:
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-December/015455.html

I own a little over 50 BSV as suicide insurance, pretty sure craig is a scammer though desu, which is a shame because I like their scaling solution more than core's.

LMAO, so many corefucks trying to defend their precious store of value from BCH. Flippening with ETH is going to be this year.

>>12718751
Because the coins are stored in special multisig wallets before they can be used with LN. Quick recap:

>anon makes a multisig wallet with Tradehub. Tradehub is a professional LN node.
>anon wants to send his bitcoins to coinbase
>Anon signs a statement with Tradehub that says my coinbase account now has 10 coins and my tradehub account has 0 coins. Tradehub also signs it.
>tradehub contacts the coinbase node and they sign a statement. It says tradehub now has 10 less coins and coinbase now has 10 more.
>none of this gets added to the chain. Both nodes keep a copy of the latest statement in storage for if they ever want to finalize the transaction.
>coinbase credits your account with the coins. While nothing ever got added to the chain, coinbase can at any time upload that statement and claim all coins it references. Its basically as good as having the coins.
>since none of this goes on the chain it can all happen instantly and in parallel

If you are wondering how they verify it, coinbase has a copy of the entire blockchain stored and they just reference the info there to see yes you do have the coins you are trying to spend. Its exactly the same as regular transactions in that way.

>>12718782
This guy is a complete brainlet. Why did you even post this? He doesnt even know what segwit is.

>>12718907
okay, but what is stopping a double spend from happening prior to final settlement on the main chain? This is as reliable as paypal, not blockchain.

Why do people keep calling bitcoin 'bitcoin core'? Just seems silly.

>>12718932
Watchtowers. When you do a LN transaction you have to broadcast it to the LN netwetwork. Watchtowers record this statement and store it, and its considered "canon" as soon as they recieve it assuming it doesnt conflict with any other statements they have stored.

Assuming anon was a faggot and wanted to rob coinbase in the above example, he could upload his original statement before he moved the coins to remove his coins from the network. Watchtowers would see this, and upload the newer version which conflicts with the older version. The software is designed to prioritize newer versions first so his original statement gets ignored.

All of this depends on watchtower computers staying online 24/7 watching the network. If they went down then double spend shenanigans could happen. But as long as at least one remains online then LN should be safe. Watchtowers receive a fee when they perform these services which incentivizes their existence.

>>12717030
Both are bad, because they’re still PoW. Concensuses like PoW and PoS are too prone to centralization and thus will cause the bottleneck to mainstream adoption. Read up about Obelisk consensus if you’re really into the tech.

>>12718931
He does, he speaks gibberish for the first half of the video, then goes into detail and it starts to make sense. In SegWit, a miner can release a block to the network but delay releasing the co-block with the SegWit signatures. Now some other miners can start mining on top of that block before they actually verify the co-block, to gain an advantage to the other miners. Sooner or later, most miners won't be verifying any SegWit transactions and at some point people could start losing money.

>>12718984
absolutely based, mein negger

>>12718984
SKYCoin CEO has no penis and only one testicle
Community manager Sudo is a space alien
Team is mostly lizard people
Telegram room is hosted on the Tron network
Insider trading of cats and thots happens daily
Partnership with Ivan the Terrible
McAfee's Sky Coin tattoo drawn with baby kitten's blood
Partnership with shady-as-fuck Adolf Hitler
Working with corrupt international governments of Lannister, Targaryen and Bolton
Sold miners to plebs for one million dollars, to mine a fucking carrot
Claim to have one billion nodes deployed but each Skyminer has one billion nodes so it's really only 1 node lol
Desktop wallet steals your television
Android wallet full of cockroaches
iOS wallet rejected by Apple due to worms
Hardware wallet made of play-doh
Antenna just a coat-hanger
Coin Hours banned in most countries
Sky Coin token only used for human trafficking
The Sky Coin "blockchain" runs on an old wooden abacus in Synth’s caravan
The only games or apps running on Skycoin CX are Red Dead Redemption 2 and Fallout 76
Only activity on GitHub is Sudo and Synth posting dick pics
Sky Coin CEO eats babies and fakes his own death every day
All the projects launched on Skycoin Fiber have been charged with international war crimes

If you buy 100000% scam sKy~CoIN tokens you will get fucked up the ass by Ernest Khalimov.

It's time to censor SkY cOiN from /biz today!

>>12718219
>You actually have to USE fiat currency.
>not just horde it for decades, untouched, expecting to get rich off it from doing nothing.

>>12717030
good thread OP

>>12717270
>And you expect a response?
*responds*

can miners exit scam? can ln nodes exit scam?

>>12719557
>can ln nodes exit scam?
not really no they can mostly screw themselves. the only way to fuck you over is if your node goes offline in a very critical period where the channel is settled, and the transaction holding your claim is not broadcast. this is only for businesses receive payment not payment tho. if you just send money you don't have to be online.