/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>12659558
Hey liar

If you 8x your money in 8 years like you claimed you did then you can retire any time you want because you can just make money out of thin air

>>12659558
Well I'm an /out/ guy and I make a monthly bank of $4.000 in ad revenues per month. Does that count?

>>12659586
Sweet. I've tried to build some websites and get ad revenue but nothing took off in a big way, my best site does around $40/month. Total I'm making a little over $120/month average which is cool but definitely not enough.

>>12659578
>including additional contributions
I've invested probably a total of $100K between my initial 40 and contributions. Yes I've 3x'd my money.

>>12659558
are you planning on just dumping it all in the stock market and living off the yearly returns? what specifically are you doing to make sure the 25K per year is covered?

FIRE is a meme. Live like a stray dog during FIRE, live like a stray dog after FIRE. Might as well go homeless and sleep in a car now that you are at it

>>12659638
I currently have about 320K in the market in index funds. These pay out about 3% annually. I have about 100K in cash savings which pays me 2.5% annually. Collectively this is about $12K.

I work as a software developer and make about 70k/year right now. I can continue to work and save money for another 3-5 years (about 35K savings per year after taxes) and set myself up for definite long-term success, OR, I can quit and do consulting stuff part time to make up the difference.

I don't "hate" my job, but I do dislike it a bit, so switching to part-time/consulting would be a nice change. I would make at least $30k/year working 15-20 hours per week (contractors/consultants make $50-70 per hour in my field, $30k at 15-20 is based on a conservative estimate)

>>12659558
Buy 20 apartments with a loan that you pay
back through rent, keeping the difference and ending up with what are essentially 20 free properties in however long it takes to pay back.

>>12659642

A lot of people would prefer a lean minimalist lifestyle where you might not be able to afford the latest gadgets, nice meals, cars, etc to having to go to work EVERY SINGLE day.


>>12659558

I also had exactly $40K in 2010. Now I have $350K and paid $120K for a small townhouse and I have $20K left to pay. ~$100K of that was made off crypto.

I am thinking about working 10 more years and the thought is unbearable.

>>12659602
Then just 3x your money indefinitely and you will never go broke

>>12659674
>Investments returning just barely more than inflation
Absolute just

>>12659642
Yup fire is gay. Enjoy living like ur in poverty while having lots of money, tardo

>>12659674
>3%
Why not put it in a bank?

>>12659783
You mean like a reasonable human?

>>12659642
This.
Fire is a fucking cuckold meme.
Instead of choosing to do something truly worthwhile and difficult with your life you're trying to skirt by with the bare minimum.
Financial independence that depends on the stock market is not independence.
The upcoming stock market reckoning and the subsequential war afterwards will make your measly half mil look pretty useless.
But at least maybe you'll achieve your real goal here. You'll certainly have enough money to the last the rest of your life.

>>12659836
I personally am comfortable living on $5 a day and wouldn't live on much more than that if I had millions.

>>12659725
>A lot of people would prefer a lean minimalist lifestyle where you might not be able to afford the latest gadgets, nice meals, cars, etc to having to go to work EVERY SINGLE day

Why don't you become a monk then? Your networth will provide you with a lifestyle worse than a minimum wage worker. Even if you accumulate 1 million (which you won't unless you don't buy a property), your returns will barely beat inflation. I hope you have very cheap fun hobbies or some project because life will get stale pretty quick otherwise

>>12659836
>>12659783

Biz laughs at bros with $300K+ who are trying to FIRE. Meanwhile average wagecuck retirement savings by age.

> Americans in their 20s: $16,000
> Americans in their 30s: $45,000
> Americans in their 40s: $63,000
> Americans in their 50s: $117,000
> Americans in their 60s: $172,000

>>12659558
>General
>FIRE

Go away plebbit. You are not welcome here. Sage.

>>12659558
We should have more of these threads. I'm heading for FIRE myself in another 3 years. I MAY have enough now, but the job is decent and allows me to save substantially, so that's what I'm doing.

The whole thing turns into a pretty miserable grind, though, not gonna lie. Been at it for almost 10 years now and deep down, I still am not convinced that it's worth it. But it's certainly simple - passive income exceeds expenses.

>>12659558
is 4% withdrawal reasonable? I thought it should be 3%
And isn't that just for like 30 years or something of a typical old person retirement.

Currently have a bunch in index funds which I was intending to withdraw 3% a year from but now thinking of buying a house instead. I mean, it'll save on rent, so that's still like I'm earning something... It kind of breaks my heart to touch that money though.

>>12659773
The percentages listed are from dividends, not capital appreciation, which is where most of the gains in the stock market come from.

>>12659783
>>12659642
>>12659836
That's not what my (OP) goal is whatsoever. Not even slightly. I live frugally in some sense; I have a modest apartment, drive an okay car, eat whatever I want. But I don't waste my money on stupid shit, or chase trends, or feel the need to constantly upgrade my electronics. I enjoy life very much and FIRE is about maintaining/improving your lifestyle by freeing up your time. It had nothing to do with frugality unless you want it to.

>>12659943
I'm definitely with you, it does become a grind. But I've learned to look at it as more of a game where I am "beating" the traditional job market. I'm (op) only 28 and most of my friends have very little in retirement savings, few assets. They are just now getting out of student loan and auto loan debt. It feels great to know I'm living so comfortably compared to most.

>>12659882
>mfw when I turned 30 and only have 2k in 401k
My job never told me they stopped retirement benefits and now I'm panicking.

>>12660159
>not keeping tracking of your own finances and retirement
>expecting your employer to keep track of your finances for you

Fucking pleb. You will never make it.

>>12659642
>being this retarded
I am not materialistic and just like to train or waste time online. I don't care about stupid ass cars or some big ass home so FIRE works for me. Unfortunately I am not in a good spot.

>>12659770
he's being smart and assuming that he can't keep up that pace forever. That's a smart way to think

>>12659674
Buy a house. Get something that's not expensive but will still have value if you decide to leave it. Tiny houses or a trailer are cheap, but if you have plans to expand a family you'll take a hit.

Cash for a house is better than paying off other stuff (car) because it removes other expenses associated with house financing.

Op.
I have 60k saved up, but ive done pretty lousy in the market..
Any advice?
Trying to make enough to get my parents a house :c

>>12659558
>real estate
I am currently selling some of my rental properties and will use the cap gains to pay off my mortgage. We are overdue for a correction and the rumblings are getting louder. I wouldnt be selling if not for the opportunity to pay off the debt but I'm also haven't bought anything in over 2 years despite looking for deals. If you are planning to buy make sure it cash flows from day one.

>>12661081
think house prices are going down?

>>12659558
Am i the only lunatic selling off income propertie to go all in on BTC when it takes its next step down? I'm in my late 20's but I need more BTC so I never have to work past 40s. Being a balding, fat wage cuck is my worst nightmare.

>>12659558
Do you plan to ever have a family?

>>12660797
I know nothing about trading, I invest solely in index ETFs and reinvest the dividends. Just look for something with low fees and a good balance

>>12661081
I'm looking at it as a way to stabilize my expenses. I figure that even if I were to overpay and get a mortgage rather than cash, I won't be subject to the volatility of rent (my current lease is $1650/month, before renewal it was 1580, I assume when this lease expires they'll try to hit me for another increase)

>>12661185
Howd you triple your money?

>>12659674
>I currently have about 320K in the market in index funds. These pay out about 3% annually. I have about 100K in cash savings which pays me 2.5% annually. Collectively this is about $12K.
how the fuck do the index funds only pay out 3%?

>>12659558
625k / 25k is 25 years NOT ADJUSTED FOR INFLATION.
Hope you can live off of 10k a year because that's what 25k is going to be worth in 20ish years

>>12659642
>Live like a stray dog
elaborate

>>12659725
How did she accomplish these gains?
>bigger tits
are they simply fake?
injections?

BASED OP.

I have about 360K in investments and receive about 20K in passive income (dividends + capital gains). I'll need about 50K in passive income to retire so I have about 10 years. I invest about 2K per month in various dividend growth stocks plus I'm trying to get my high yield savings account to 15K (currently at 3.5K) for emergency situations.

Currently own a home but the mortgage is around $1700 (currently built about 75K in equity though) so I need to look into paying off my mortgage early vs investing that money and which will give me a better ROI.

I was able to put about 30K in the market last year of new capital, hoping to put in another 30K this year but not sure I'll reach that goal.

>>12661220
if hes basing it off dividends (which is what I use), dividend growth of solid companies outpaces inflation multiple fold, so without putting in any capital he should receive larger and larger payments every year based solely off a company raising its dividend

>>12659882
Please tell me that doesn't include house equity.

>>12659578
>>12659770
why do these threads attract salty faggots
just go away, retard
bump.

>>12661218

He's talking dividends. He isn't talking about capital growth which would make up the majority of gains

>>12661280
Dividends alone pay 3%?

>>12661257
How can you predict that all of the companies you're invested in don't pull a GE? That was also a solid 100 year old company known to have a steady reliable dividend, until they cut it to near 0

I live in the UK, cost of living is cheaper than US but income is far less. Net worth is about £26k, down from £60k at crypto peak in December

Now crypto is 25% and stocks are 70% of my total worth. Praying for another bull run to ATHs, can only dream

Got an interview tomorrow for wagecucking IT support. £27k salary which believe it or not is not too bad in the UK, will live with parents for 6 months to a year to save the majority then probably move out once I'm more comfortable.

>>12659578
Remember that everyone on 4chan is a 6"0 cook at Wendy's with a 6' cock making 500k/year

>>12661294

Depends what fund you're invested in. I think the average for index funds is about 2%, but there's different funds that can be more focused on high dividend stocks

you have enough money to buy a house. what do
>buy a house
or
>rent and invest the money in index funds for passive income

>>12660687
>I am not materialistic and just like to train or waste time online. I don't care about stupid ass cars or some big ass home so FIRE works for me. Unfortunately I am not in a good spot.
the hard part is finding a woman who is into living on poverty wages

>>12661364
They deal with it. Not all pussy can swing a rich dick. Most of them have to deal with govt cheese.

>>12661380
What's the best way to retire with about 800k-1.2m?

>>12661364
Relevant story: https://pastebin.com/eizAaFun
Reddit deleted it kek

>>12661115
I hope they are but who knows.

>>12661185
Just make sure you account for all expenses. Mortgage, insurance, tax, capx, vacancies, etc. or else it just becomes another bill. I have been able to find anything that fits my formulas for awhile. Depends where youre looking though.

>>12660687
>Unfortunately I am not in a good spot.
how so?

>>12661401
Seems like the only two ways are "Gambling", or become a "Boomer Landlord". I'm spliting my strategy on both....I have two income properties own and rent while wage cucking, and I have some BTC but I'm gonna sell one of these APTS and pour it all into BTC and see what happens.

>>12661296
you can't, but if you invest in a diverse range of companies, it shouldn't be an issue. GE is a unicorn when it comes to completely shitting the bed. very rare does a dividend aristocrat fail as a company.

What to look for is a decent p/e, consistent dividend growth, and monitor the payout ratio and free cash flow.

>>12661401
You could also invest 100 a month into a safe retirement fund.....Dave ramesey has a whole thing on it. If you dont know about it, you should check it out on youtube.

>>12661428
>but I'm gonna sell one of these APTS and pour it all into BTC and see what happens
Lol, how many BTC are you picking up? Are you doing that because you think we're near a bottom?

>>12661401
dividend growth stocks + mutual funds

>>12661457
>>12661428
How much income can I realistically expect at roughly that level? Using higher dividend index funds, will my principle be maintained against inflation while I withdraw?

>>12661448
Whatever I can afford....I have no debt and about 6 months worth of expenses saved. I dont think this is the bottom but I do think its safe to dollar cost average in now. I think we'll hit 1,200...but there is no way to know for sure.

>>12661477
>principle
principal
on principle

>>12661482
How much is your property worth?

>>12661477
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcE8cf8dQEM

>>12661477
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wjuCgtL0yA&t=292s

>>12661477
i suggest choosing specific dividend income stocks.

the mutual funds will provide dividends and capital gains while the dividend stocks will provide increasing dividend income.

I have a 360K portfolio currently netting me 20K per year (and growing). With 1,000,000 you could reasonably receive $50K depending on how good your mutual fund advisors work.

Focus on dividend growth companies like SBUX, MSFT, AAPL, ITW, JPM; stable companies like JNJ, PG, KHC, KO; some high yields like MO, IBM, T, VZ; and some REITS like DLR, PSA, DOC, IRM and O

The trick is you'll want to reinvest the money for a few years to get the snowball going and to have a higher yield on cost. The reason I can get $20K a year (average yield of 5.7%) with an actual yield of 3.5% is based on yield on cost.

>>12659558
What is your final FIRE number? I'm going for $1M in net worth (might change it later). I'm 37% there. 27y/o so I got plenty of time.

I will 100% move to a lower cost. I'm currently living in an EU capital.

I currently have $140k in crypto and I feel completely retarded. I'm not sure if I should keep riding the waves or if the entire thing is a joke. WIthout crypto I would have nothing, but watching my net worth fluctuate from 200k to 50k and back three or four times over the last year has damaged my soul.

>>12661498
>>12661511
watching now, thanks

>>12661720
You should withdraw 100k and put it into high yield dividend funds

>>12661742
>You should withdraw 100k and put it into high yield dividend funds
my reservation is simply that withdrawal is an instant like -25% due to taxes, and then the high-yield dividend fund is going to yield 4% while crypto sometimes goes 200% in a week

>>12661791

Don't let the tax tail wag the investment dog

Crypto may go up 200% a week but it can also fall 90% like it has done

>>12661791
You are a gambling addict

>>12661811
I guess I just see it as an instantaneous loss coupled with a totally cuckolded withdrawal of opportunity vs relatively boundless opportunity

>>12661826
I guess so, but if my wins exceed my losses, is that really the same as some schmuck losing his shirt at a casino?

>>12661791
Don’t fall for that stupid meme morty. Don’t be me

>>12661811

I am pretty damn conservative but crypto really provided a rocket fuel to my portfolio/savings/debt during 2017-2018. Attached is my June 2017 to end of 2018 tracking. If you take a look, you can see I was super conservative and I cashed out in Oct 2017 with the China ban and in Dec 2017 and early 2018. I paid off $100K off my mortgage during that time and increased my net worth from $150K to $315K not counting my townhouse. Fucking could not have that kind of performance without crypto. BTW, that $10K credit card debt in June 2017 was to buy BTC/ETH off Coinbase KEK

Can't wait for the next BTC halvening and bullrun. It should at least take another 5 yrs off my wagecucking career.

>>12661845
>Don’t fall for that stupid meme morty. Don’t be me
?

>>12659586
>>12659602
What is your sites about?
How popular do my site needs to be to make 4k/month in ad revenues? Wich type of ads?

Sorry, but i dont know nothing about this. Is it hard to create a site even if I have 0 exp/knowledge in IT?

>>12661529
>I have a 360K portfolio currently netting me 20K per year (and growing). With 1,000,000 you could reasonably receive $50K depending on how good your mutual fund advisors work.
50k while maintaining the principal against inflation?

>>12661117
Balding will likely be cured by then

>>12661280
So is he just reinvesting the capital growth in this scenario to compound it? What are you typically getting in gains from these Vanguard ETFs and the like?

>>12661340
I have this same question. Seems like you should buy the house so the mortgage is always the same and then you can have equity in the house as well as sell it if necessary. That rent money literally goes down the toilet and I doubt you are offsetting that by your index fund gains

Blessed thread. I have about $200k saved up between cash, retirement accounts and my stock account. I've always been a diligent saver to a fault. My goal is to reitre early and play vidya all day or maybe find a cause I'd be interested in working part time.

I want a waifu and several kids, do I figure I'll need about $50k per year or about $1.25M. It's a long road ahead but I'm ready for it.

>>12661498
>>12661511
Is this literal fucking rocky top boomer saying to just save 7.5K a year for 40 years? How the fuck does that get to 7 million? Why is this retard incapable of explaining anything properly? Where do you put the God damn money?

>>12662451
Yes. The general rule is your portfolio can support a yearly withdrawal of 4% of your porfilio size. This accounts for inflation, so you withdraw more as time goes on.

>>12662775
>Yes. The general rule is your portfolio can support a yearly withdrawal of 4% of your porfilio size. This accounts for inflation, so you withdraw more as time goes on.
I thought it was 3-3.5%, especially with these downturns looming lol
fuck

thanks for the posts

>>12662642

It isn't the capital growth he is reinvesting, capital growth is just the stocks you own going up in value. Dividends are what you reinvest to get the compound effect

I invest in Vanguard FTSE all world equity fund, high risk (for stocks but nothing compared to crypto) and it get's about 2% a year dividends, I invest through the vanguard site which automatically reinvests dividends anyway

>>12662787
>It isn't the capital growth he is reinvesting, capital growth is just the stocks you own going up in value. Dividends are what you reinvest to get the compound effect
Why even make the distinction? All that matters is capital->return, so why focus on where the return comes from?

>>12662787
So what are your average total gains each year?

>>12662783
If you think there's a downturn coming, youll probably need a larger port, of course. 3.5-4.5% is the historical average and was the number that came out of the Trinity Study.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_study

>>12662830
ok, thanks

>>12659836
>Fire is a fucking cuckold meme.
>Instead of choosing to do something truly worthwhile and difficult with your life you're trying to skirt by with the bare minimum.
literally the opposite of what FIRE is about who the jew is posting this shit? once you retire you don't go fucking NEET again you work independently on whatever shit you always wanted to do. who the fuck doesn't understand retirement this badly? early retirement is about freelancing whatever hobby you ever wanted to do full time for the rest of your days.

dreamt of being an architect boom spend the rest of your days drafting and learning from the greats. wanted to make pottery boom buy some clay and take classes at the local community college. ever thought about going to space attend fucking space camp and get the idea before diving into self education since you have all the time in the fucking world without any hectic work schedule knowing your financial situation is cherry.

I don't know who's jewing who anymore

>>12661791
falling for the tax meme was the absolute worst thing I ever did

>>12661529
>The reason I can get $20K a year (average yield of 5.7%) with an actual yield of 3.5% is based on yield on cost.
what?

>>12662886
>falling for the tax meme was the absolute worst thing I ever did
I believe it.

>>12661262
>implying americans own their property instead of renting
even boomers who own end up reverse mortgaging.

>>12662903
is it different anywhere in the world? literally anywhere

>>12662815

I haven't been invested long, but I'm up 20%. You can find out the average return for each index fund by googling. I think the s&p average is between 7% - 10%

>>12662798
I'm not focusing on it, just pointing out that capital growth and dividends are two different things. Reinvesting dividends is a huge portion of where long term growth comes from, so if you just keep the dividends you'll have lost out by massive gains over time

>>12659578
Hey retarded newfag - OP 8x his money is nothing. I did a x5 last year alone on crypto - in a bear market. Just because you're an inept fuckwad doesn't mean everyone else is. Ops post isn't even much of a humble brag, there's people here that are worth many times that already. Now go back.

>>12662911
Dunno about the EU as much, but the same shit here in Australia at least. Boomers love that debt jew. If you've got an actual sure-thing investment, then fine, but taking on debt for holidays and such is just insanity.

>>12662951
I'm talking about home ownership. It's true that you never really own in the US, but I think it's the same everywhere.

>>12662951
One important part of Fire is breaking the consumerist cycle of constantly spending 100% of your money and going into debt all the time. That's probably why boomers are never retiring, they're going to be punching tickets at movie theaters until they're to infirm to work.

>>12661240
Eating while working out. Muscle + Fat is how people look filled out, go from 10% bodyfat to 15% while putting on muscle so the bodyfat is smoothing out the right areas in the right shapes.

>>12662868
This is the truth

>>12659558

i live on 3k USD per month, i save 7-8k USD.

have 200k saved up by now, guess ill keep working until i have another 400k and then take some time off..

>>12661240
probably both mixed with supplements

>>12662965
I mean anyone can do it but most people fall for the fucking consumer electronics and keeping up with the joneses jewshit. People love buying things that depreciate in value they can't stop doing it. Anyone could pay off a mortgage of a modest home if they just dropped shit like:

new phone every year, 300$ monthly bill in basic cable, eating out more than cooking, "going out to drink", spending money on a fucking overseas vacation, vapid shit that does nothing but give you temporary fee fee feels and likeable content for social media.

For example if you rent to own you can get modest internet to provide all your entertainment needs for like 70 a month that's all your entertainment. Buy a used vehicle since a new one loses 80% of it's worth once it's driven off the lot. Limit eating out and even going out to 1 time a month. Budget entertainment to 100$ a month for movies, vidya, toys, books etc. (whatever you absolutely cannot get with a basic internet connection and critical thinking). With all the money you save cocoon moding you could own the house and then quit with shit tons in your 401K and IRA within 5-7 years.

Most people just get fucking complacent and dig themselves further into debt pits for some gay shit that doesn't help them in any way. Before paying for anything always ask "is this going to help me today, a week from now, a year from now? Or is it just gonna be another expenditure I can't remember from all the others in a few days?"

Shit's crazy but we outchere tryna make it. Dont fall for that bullshit.

>>12663268
Fuck yes my nigger. You got that between an IRA and ROTH IRA don't let it just sit in a savings account. C/D bonds can be good ways to keep yourself from burning liquid assets too locks them away for 1, 3, or 5 years while they churn out some more dividends for you.

>>12663399
>new phone every year, 300$ monthly bill in basic cable, eating out more than cooking, "going out to drink", spending money on a fucking overseas vacation, vapid shit that does nothing but give you temporary fee fee feels and likeable content for social media.
I'm with you on about half of that but I'm starting to think that going out to drink is the only way to socialize as an adult. I get lonely sitting in my room and saving all my shekels.

I buy a new 8TB hard drive every six months for 100-150 bucks and watch all my shit on a 60" Sony TV I got on clearance for $300. I used to think I was gaming the system, but now I think I'm missing out on life. IDK man.

>>12663409
>C/D bonds
what about t-bonds?

>>12663399
Hell ye based triple double of truth suck my dick kazar temptresses. No I mean seriously are there any Jewish women with masters degrees looking for a life partner?

>>12663415
Well ok but check this shit out. Instead of going out to drink invite people you know are interesting TO YOUR PLACE TO DRINK FOR 1/20TH OF THE PRICE. I regularly would have like UNO death game nights and potluck dinners with """stranger danger""" people I met who were intelligent enough to carry a conversation without being a retard and trustworthy enough not to be clingy or moochy. Remember moderation my dude once a month is fine but keep it in budget. Try and find places like minded individuals would go and look out for sick ass happy hours and events. For example I used to go to one place that had 30 bucks all you can drink with one meal one day out of the month and then walk a block to the trivia night at another. I'm fat dumb and happy and drunk enough to have that social lubricant to make me not gaf about some gayass normie shit.

>>12663437
I don't personally fuck with T-bonds due to the time constraints sometimes you need a little liquid for emergency or something. Stick with short term 1-5 year bonds that still have a return above 2.5% they exist. You might need to open an account with a new bank but they exist and goddamn are they delicious.

I mean if your like under 18-23 and have enough to spare for a decent 30 year T-bond go nuts but at that point you'd probably already be a rancho cucamunga new money trust fund baby with affluenza from the get go. I mean that's fine too hate to see new money fuck it up because they don't know shit from shine duckets.

>>12659558
dude unironically ur picking the worst time to retire, shits about to hit the fan(usa civil war)

>spending money on a fucking overseas vacation
literally the only thing worth spending discretionary income on. don't be a spergy fag sitting at home your entire life like an idiot

>>12662886
I believe what he's saying is he's getting 5.7% of what he put in since the dividend has continued to grow. He's getting 3.5% of the current value of his portfolio

Can you safely get 7-10 percent in this shit? My goal is to make about 70K a year in returns and live off that. Should i diversify into real estate as well?

>>12663520
>invite people you know are interesting TO YOUR PLACE TO DRINK FOR 1/20TH OF THE PRICE
I completely agree! It just seems like most people don't want to do this, and I also can't meet anyone new this way except for coworkers and such... I have a big pool of acquaintances and no real friends at this point. Is that just part of getting old? Phuck me. I need to be more like you--maybe more alcohol..

>I don't personally fuck with T-bonds due to the time constraints sometimes you need a little liquid for emergency or something. Stick with short term 1-5 year bonds that still have a return above 2.5% they exist. You might need to open an account with a new bank but they exist and goddamn are they delicious.
What should I do with a 5-10k emergency fund?

>>12663855
keep your efund in cash my homie

>>12663855
What's your income like? If shiddy then 5K in a ROTH IRA through Vangaud just buy Vcor etfs with them and let it sit for years. If you make decent money then with 7.5K max the ROTH IRA foro this year and put what's left in a regular IRA same etfs. Maybe set 1-2k into a 1 year bond. Should leave yourself like a thousand for in a pinch it's good to lock away a majority of your wealth in making money so you wont be tempted to buy some dumb shit ala youthful decision making. Still have like a grand for like if some shit goes down. Or you know buy a couple ounces of gold.

>>12663985
very meh idea

>>12663985
>keep your efund in cash my homie
I don't really need it right now because I'm a NEET. Is there anything I can stick it in with no minimums that will earn more than checking? lol
Just looking for future advice, especially when it grows beyond that number

>>12663994
>when it grows beyond that number
it shouldnt grow beyond that number

>>12663993
>What's your income like?
I'm a NEET. Income varies from zero to like 30k if I'm "working". 130k in crypto, 20k in cash, 10k in gold and silver, and about 100k in rare Pokemon cards. I also dabble in "mystical" artifacts.

>>12663994
Ahh NEET ok just put 2.5K into vangaurd. You working towards gainful employment though? Sometimes when I was NEET I made finding a full time job my full time job. Unemployment workshops volunteering at church type places to make connections to find an in for a good job.

Don't ever not have a green month of income and you should be good. If you work freelance import export then good on you senpai keep it up, but take like a project management professional course so you can have some certificates for a wage cafe if you absolutely need to get one. I would stress making sure you max out your ROTH IRA every year especially with the new higher caps they have. Also checking the C/D rates once a month if you see one nearing 3% just drop 1K or whatever the most you can swing into a year long bond for added dividends.

I hope you make it bro just make sure you moderate your budget instead of all the spending on dumb shit.

Unironically you can make it by saving 70% of your paycheck and investing it, even if you are a wagecuck in less than 10 years you are rich.

>>12663993
Emergency funds should be put in safe, liquid accounts such as checking or savings accounts. The goal is for the fund to never decrease in value and to be able to retrieve the money very quickly should the need arise.

They should not be put in any type of investment as this could result in losses or even in the impossibility to get the money out quickly. As well, a credit card should not be considered an emergency fund because of the high interest, and neither should a line of credit as it can be taken away at any time.

>>12659918
Are you retarded?

>>12661720
Gtfo of crypto son

>>12664065
>Ahh NEET ok just put 2.5K into vangaurd. You working towards gainful employment though? Sometimes when I was NEET I made finding a full time job my full time job. Unemployment workshops volunteering at church type places to make connections to find an in for a good job.
No, I'm kind of depressed but for a while I had my own "business" so to speak, as I mentioned above. I have another one in the pipeline which I think has a lot of potential. I just need to dig myself out of this hole a bit.
>2.5k
why only 2.5k? After being in crypto so long and watching my entire portfolio swing literally hundreds of thousands of dollars while I use an old cell phone and wear the same clothes from high school, I'm just numb to such small amounts. Will 2.5k into an account like that even do anything?

>>12664327
>Literally selling the bottom

>>12664484
I agree, though I expect $2500

>>12659699
It feels so wrong but that's essentially my plan once I get some loans cleared.
Buy a house and have my tenant pay for the loan effectively. Feels like theft but damn nigga. Gotta make that paper

>>12664484
the bottom to crypto is zero

So I'm 27 now. Was meaning to start saving last year but reasons intervened.
I'm currently covering a loan which is about 15% of my income that I used to settle my mother's estate.
Anyways for that reason ive postponed starting my savings but ive thought after the bills and loan are paid my fuck around money is $250.
So I've decided to start saving 15% of my income monthly which is $100.
I know it sounds shit but I'm from a 3rd world country and only in my 2nd year of work. There is still growth for my profession as the pay grows greater the longer you work/more experience you have.
Though I wanna get saving now or I'll never get into the habit.
So I was wondering how best to go about this? I was thinking of just dumping into vanguard fund (VTI).
Which so you guys recommend?

>>12660687
I get you are boring but being financially free is to do whatever you want without worrying about money, it doesn't mean you are materialistic. If I feel like starting a new hobby I won't need to count pennies in order to see if I'm able to afford it since I live on 20k a year. What about emergencies? What if you choose to start a family? What if your investments don't keep up with inflation? It's more than just wanting to afford a bigger house or faster car.

>>12661223
FIRE involves enduring a shitty lifestyle just like a stray dog (extreme urban survivalism since you got to work harder and cut several expenses such as great food) so that you can retire early but guess what, you won't save that much to last you several decades so you will still endure a shitty lifestyle even after you "retire". People cope with this by saying they are just minimalists and not at all materialistic. It's an act of desperation to never work again and they are ok with enduring with a shitty life for that end.

>>12664874
follow this (note: optimized for US tax-effiecient tools but you should be able to find similar accounts in your own country)

>what to buy
VTI is comfy but your long term goal should be https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio

>>12665158
>>12664874
oops follow this >>12664127

we're all gonna make it bro. sorry about your mom anon :(

>>12659699
>>12664766
Not to seem crass, but how do you avoid renting to African Americans?

>>12665029
>FIRE involves enduring a shitty lifestyle just like a stray dog
not really, people call that "lean fire" and it involves a lot of sacrifice and isnt for everyone
some people get themselves into a bad situation (lots of debt) and need to live like a dog just to get by, but most people move past that once they pay their debt down. many people just need to save 15% and they can fire living a normal lifestyle especially if they start early but even if they start late.

>>12665173
>>12664127
Shit thanks. Almost forgot about having emergency fund. Thanks I'll read into this

>>12665199
>Not to seem crass, but how do you avoid renting to African Americans?
In your ad you state "no filthy niggers!!!"
But seriously you just interview rentees and come up with an excuse that you don't won't them.
When I was gonna rent I had so many people calling in the first day that I had to tell people sorry someone already came but you can see the house anyways.
Show them around and such and just tell them you already said it's reserved for the 1st person. That way you got a good excuse to say no to people

>>12663520
>Hell ye based triple double of truth suck my dick kazar temptresses. No I mean seriously are there any Jewish women with masters degrees looking for a life partner?
*High pitched nasal Jewish voice*
You rang honey...

>>12665222
I can't be the only anon that plans to live like this even if I make it? I love spartan living, just focus on buying what I need and indulge myself in my hobbies. Luckily my hobbies (vidya, weight lifting, water sciences) are extremely cheap. I also buy bulk foods at costco and cook very healthy meals at home.

>>12659558
>Expecting your current gains to continue indefinitely this late in the credit cycle

>>12665398
I doubt it. I interpreted 'living like a stray dog' is more like canceling your internet / phone service, not using netflix, eating beans 3x per that sort of thing.

Do you already own a home out right? If not, you've still got a ways to go. If you already own your home, I would say go for it. You'll probably get bored within a year and want to start working again.

I think the biggest thing you can do if you want to retire early without having to worry about shit is this:

1.Pay off all debt as quick as possible.
2. Put as much as you can afford while still maintaining a fun lifestyle* in the bank.
3. Take full advantage of any 401k options offered at work.

*Fun lifestyle does not mean driving a expensive car/truck/suv. It don't mean buying a large mansion type house either. It does mean being able to go out on the town for a fun night or two or being able to splurge on some takeout or nice restaurant without worrying about shit.


EX: you live close to work (under 10 miles). Why the fuck would you buy a BMW or Mercedes? Most of the time that car will be spent parked at work or at your house.

>>12659674
>3% return on index funds
the fuck

>>12665586
The annual dividend yield on index funds are around 2% right

>>12665600
For domestic stocks, you can expect a long-term average of like 9% annual growth and 5% for bonds.

FIRE is an interesting conundrum. If you have high enough income to get to retirement early (30-40s), chances are you have a very successful career that you're proud of. You consider it a part of who you are since you've dedicated so much time and effort. So when the times that you decide if you should quit, letting that part go can be difficult.

Anyway, that's how it is for me. 39yo with $1.2m that's decided to keep working.

>>12665758
There are bankers out there who litterally get offered $50MM not to do investment banking for the next 10 years. Could you imagine that? Make 50 million for doing nothing. Know what they do? They decline and keep on investment banking. Crazy people. >>12665707

>>12665758
If I made FIRE money, I'd keep working because the longer I worked, the more I'd have to invest and the higher my quality of life would be when I did retire. I like my job, though. I'd only retire if I could spend the rest of my life traveling.

>>12661416
holy.
crap.

women really are all gold-diggers.

>>12666056
I've never heard of anything like that. Any stories or related articles you can link to?

>>12659918
Fire albeit being onions as fuck is the only acceptable plebbit meme

>>12666222
>Still there is one financial-industry career path that I would have thought would be equally appealing to almost anyone, and that I would unhesitatingly advise anyone to pursue, which is that if someone is willing to pay you $50 million not to work in the financial services industry, you should hit that bid! That’s my dream job! If any investment bank out there is looking to pay someone $50 million not to work in finance, let’s talk; I will be happy to sign up for that. I’d do it for $30 million honestly.

>Weirdly though Andrea Orcel has actually been offered that gig and is still thinking it over:

>Andrea Orcel is facing the trade of his career: collect tens of millions of dollars in deferred compensation from UBS Group AG or keep a career in banking.

>Look, obviously, at every step along the way as you move from being a young analyst to the global head of investment banking, you are going to be selected and indoctrinated for the sorts of personality traits that would lead you to think things like “why would I take $50 million not to work in investment banking when I could work 80 hours a week for the rest of my life and have a good chance of making even more money?” So offers like this are wasted on people who are inclined to reject them.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-25/money-stuff-getting-paid-not-to-work-seems-nice

Who /VTSAX/ here?

FIRE is gay shit. The only way to retire is do it every few years and live the life you want, without having to restrict yourself. Sure, don't buy everything you see like a dumbass, but at least get to experience SOME things.

>it's not sustainable

It surely is if you plan it out right, especially if you don't plan on living very long. FIRE is the worst option especially for me as my health is worse off than most anons (nothing as bad as cancer, but it's hard to keep working with it).

>>12661416

please tell me this shit isn't real

>>12662868
>financial independence retire early
>work after FIRE
hmm

>>12666712
kys newfag fuck

if you had enough investment income where you didn't "have" to work, what are some interesting jobs? what are some things that are actually fun/interesting to do for the sake of them, and not how much they pay?

Femanon here. Can you tell me why you guys don't think I should have access to your Bitcoins?

How do I know if a guy is loaded with crypto?

>>12666309

Banking is really not a noble profession. They just make money off of other peoples' hard-earned money, and make bets based on their impulsiveness.

>>12667854
"femanon here" was always one of my favourite larps. Right after "Sergey here" and "my dad works for Nintendo"

>>12666782
Still seems like a larp to me, have trouble believing someone didn't just post shit for upvotes.

>>12667854
>Feman-
>BANG
>I wish the jannies would do their job goddamn

Question to FIRE enthusiasts: if I get into a catastrophic accident or get arrested and find myself needing legal fees can I still do FIRE or should I focus on getting a degree and career and be a wageslave?
Asking for a friend...

>>12668269
>catastrophic accident
you can still do FIRE if you can afford health insurance
>or get arrested
this won't prevent you from reaching FIRE but it can delay you
>find myself needing legal fees
umbrella insurance might help, depends on what you're spending legal fees on.
>or should I focus on getting a degree and career and be a wageslave?
unless you have a profitable business under your hat, how else will you build your investments?

>>12664464
It's called compound interest anon the more you put in over time the more it turns into by the time you need to withdraw it.

>>12664127
Emergency funds is just that pink ID said he had like 5-10K sitting in "emergency fund" unless his monthly costs are like 3K then he doesn't need that much money sitting on its lazy ass when it could be making him more money. I'm not against emergency fund at all but a majority of money should not be sitting in a liquid status. At any point your emergency should be around 3 months living expenses or <10% of your net worth. Your guide is good shit though wish more posters were providing content like you instead of shit coin content.

>>12663399
If most burgers did this, the US would become Euro/Japan tier without the "social benefits" to fall back on. Theres a reason wages are high and businesses are doing good in the US, somebody is buying shit they don't need or rarely use. It's the biggest consumer market in the world.

People in Europe save more and spend less. Overall a healthier society, but less wealth.

>>12665389
Yes hello miss I'm looking for a potential life partner. Potentially I want to engage in a long term investment partner DINK lifestyle with plans to bear offspring which will be able to enjoy a higher social standing life than I was. Are you by chance miss a NIGGER? I only want to make this pact with a NIGGER. I can't stress how hard it is to find a Nice Israeli Girl Getting Even Richer willing to partner with a shiksa goy boy like myself. I'm essentially jew adjacent though your family would never know I was gentile ;). Just don't expect to ever have me around your friends and family outside of obligation.

>>12665398
>>12665446
This is the thing most americans consider a shitty lifestyle outside of the beans. You wont be eating beans nigga you just wont be eating out every meal. You will be buying high quality ingredients and cooking delicious healthy meals better than the people around you paying 12 dollars for a fucking grilled cheese and fries everyday.

I know offhandedly 5 people who can't imagine not paying 300 dollars for fucking premium cable from one of the big three plus netflix hulu etc. Meanwhile for 70$ a month I have the highest speed internet on my coastline which provides more than I would ever need.

>>12665446
damn I mean to post this along with my content

>>12668660
lol. Your something else. Thank you for this post.

>have $500 from 1% cash back on my credit card
>that means I've spent $50,000 using my credit card
holy fuck

>>12666149
>>12666712
>>12661416
>women really are all gold-diggers.
You know honestly I don't blame her. Women would like a man she can depend on when shit hit's the fan. All the love in the world won't stop them of thinking about if she's making a mistake with not having a family and doing that normal family bullshit with the dog and the picket fence.
She probably feared she'd live to regret missing out on all the bullshit and made the right move rather than hate her life and husband when the mid-life crisis hits.
It's not really about the money it's about the stability and he came across as a lazy piece of shit that was content living like a hobo and not putting any effort in furthering himself and position in life.

>>12668882
I dont blame her either and quite frankly I'd break up with a girl like that.

>no, I dont want go out or do anything fun
>yes, I just want to sit around and play guitar all day like a dirty hippy
that would be a yikes from me

>>12667854
is that you in the pic, sweetie? I've got a ton of crypto if you wanna date.

>>12668898
>that would be a yikes from me
honestly. if she just sat at home waiting to take my cock everyday and atleast made food and cleaning I wouldn't give a fuck what she did

>>12668950
the really weird thing is whenever the story is posted, some people always seem to think he really epic trolled the girl for the win. like he exposed her and humiliated her or something but really, think about it ... he dated a girl for an entire year, said he 'saw her in his future,' and then just breaks up with her ... ? is his vision of his future that pathetic?

i just got out of a relationship and fuck man it feels like that whole period of my life was a waste of time. i couldnt imagine spending a year of my life dating some thot just to prove some point. what a waste.

>>12669004
I think your misinterpreting things wrong yourself.
Sure he dated her for so long but I don't think it was for any point. Maybe his end goal is to keep doing this to women till they can't stand him. Like he just does it for the pussy(Doubt that).
But more likely he's got this complex in his mind, similar to the people that respond to this, that a girl is just a gold digger if she doesn't fear living on the streets one day.

>>12659558
Advice for transferring $9k credit card debt to a new line? Keep getting denied , not sure what Im supposed to do.

>>12659558 (OP)

Question to anyone wanting to FIRE
How do you handle having a wife and children?
Because that lifestyle sounds like you will have a childless life and will die alone.

FIRE sounds nice but having a family with 3-4 children sounds nicer.

>>12669706

It's why FIRE is propagated on reddit so much, it's full of childless people who never planned on having children in the first place. There's a lot of anti-natalism sentiment on the website. There's no other real way to retire early in current day though.

>>12661262
It likely is, given it's the average.
Imagine all those in their later years who worked for much less in the 80s and 90s and got dinged every year by Goldstein's 401 fees and mismanagement.

>The median household income in the United States is $56,516, according to 2015 data from the U.S. Census.
Implying
>25 to 34 years: $776 weekly/$40,352 annually
I think those numbers are shit, but you have to factor in the slums and the Mexicans, and those working under the table or not working.
I'm sure if you filtered the data on college grads, you'd see those savings rates double.

>>12669734
hm, that's what I thought.
At least having a modest / more minimal lifestyle can help the pay off things faster.
But again, find me a wife being ok with not having at least 1 big holiday trip to a beach and a few small weekends things throughout the year.
and not spending money on eating out or doing this and that just because it things one has to do.
and having the full controll over money and being the man of the house is not possible since women are equal and can do what they want.

>>12661340
I'm processing the idea personal real estate is a terrible investment.
We all know cars are depreciating assets. The more you spend, the more you lose in the long run, and the more you're taxed and have to pay in insurance.
I'm seeing the same relationship with a home. You have to maintain the home, as well as repair and remodel, all while paying taxes, insurance, and interest.
Reviewing 2018, I paid $6K in taxes, insurance, and interest on my modest house and loan ($50k). So that's $6K I won't see again. I also did a $4k DIY bathroom reno since it was original to the 1960's house. I don't consider it an upgrade, but maintenance to keep it in style and marketable.
This year, I need a new roof ($6K), and who knows what else.
So, the way I see it, it costs +/- $10K each year to live in my house.
Inflation adjusted, when you go to sell, you may at best break even - and as the car analogue, the larger the house, the costs scale with it.
Bigger house? Bigger roof to replace. Bigger HVAC to replace. Bigger insurance, taxes, etc.
So that's what I'm processing now. PERSONAL real estate isn't an investment. At best you break even.
My trajectory is now to have a small house and get rental properties and have other suckers pay off the mortgages. That, that is an investment. If I had my 20's to do over, I'd live in a truck and buy a house or two and rent them out instead of getting apartments and a home.

>>12668882
It's just her side of the story. If it were to be believed, I suspect he would have stopped her from leaving or reconciled later.
If she was a good fit and level headed during that convo, he would have said something.
She probably was materialistic, saw all her peers with fancy things on FB, and yelled at him she'd never be able to keep up with the Jones'.

Does anyone achieve FIRE without earning a large income/having a large inheritance?

>listen to FIRE podcasts
>slowly realize each and every one of them was earn 100k+, had college paid by parents, had inheritances that boosted them a large amount of the way there

etc.

Any normal incomes actually make it?

>>12668882
You are right about the value of stability.
But that's what he has.
He lives like a hobo and will continue to live like a hobo even if he loses all is money because you don't need money to live like a hobo. 100% stable.
This woman, thinks she can change a man, or take the money for herself, because he's not using it.

>>12669887
>Does anyone achieve FIRE without earning a large income
how does have money without having money
hmmmm

>>12661240
simple
better make up/lighting/camera angle, increase bodyfat and induced lordosis

>>12662868
this is the sole reason I want passive income. Being free to work on any project or pursue any "passion" that I may have would be the tits

>>12669887
It's based on percentages, income doesn't matter so much here

>>12670050

You can FIRE without having a large income. But the lower your income, the more you need to live like a monk and the longer you'll have to work. If you're earning $70-$100K you can live pretty comfortably and FIRE within 20 years if you're not wasting money on keeping up with the Jonses, latest gadgets, cars, big house, etc.

>>12668877
nevergonnamakeit.jpg

>>12668882
How the fuck do you think people become and then stay wealthy anon? Here's a tip its not by spending money frivolously.

>>12668898
brainlet posting ironically is still brainlet posting

>>12669004
It's pretty clear he wanted to continue a relationship but when she outed herself as materialistic that's when it clicked that it wouldn't work out in the long run. I feel for the dude really but she was in the wrong for literally gold digging. Assuming it wasn't a larp there is too much missing information. Had they lived together then he probably would have broke it off sooner as she went to work and came home to him before she got mad about him living the FIRE lifestyle while she was wage caging.
>>12669045
You're overthinking it if it isn't a larp.
>>12669497
Fuck does this have to do with financial independence and retiring early? Pay off your goddamn debt you idiot.

Any good books on FIRE or stories to read? I read the below, which was okay, but the guy still ends up "working" by managing his projects. Seems like it's more of a story on passive income than FI

>https://www.amazon.com/Financial-Independence-Retire-Early-Never-ebook/dp/B06ZZGZWLW/

>>12669706
It's entirely plausible so long as you live a minimalist lifestyle. A lot is dependent on finding a good spouse who understands and can adhere to the lifestyle. Without that a lot falls apart. If she can comprehend and adhere to not being a consumerist goy then it's actually pretty gravy. You probably wont be having 4 kids but 2 would be possible if you had budgeted accordingly. For people considering dual income no kids DINK life in preparation of FIRE it's even easier assuming both are professionals making at least 50K annual working for a decade. 15 years would relieve a lot of pressure for child rearing costs if neither party is willing to consider freelance or part time work after retiring from the 40 hour work week lifestyle.

>>12669734
Now we're back on not sure who's jewing who level discussion. It's like people are actually arguing for spending money on dumb shit that doesn't actually contribute to your quality of life in a long term way. Anyone who cannot put off instant gratification is no different than a drug addict.

You're trading your actual life for money like a crackhead. Small practices of discipline especially with money results in huge payoffs over time due to COMPOUND INTEREST. Every 34 dollar meal out is losing fucking thousands of dollars 10 years down the road that you could spend on being financially independent.

Economy is fucked, no joke

Everybody is either gambling in the markets or o messed with buying rental properties and jewwing out the younger generation with increasing rents. This slows down economic stimulus and further decays this trash governing system.

This society sucks ass and the capitalist system is a slave machine

Damn it all to hell, my entire generation is focused on the FIRE movement, what does that tell you about worker sentiment?

>>12669797
>I'm processing the idea personal real estate is a terrible investment.
OK while not entirely wrong this is partially flawed. If you bought a home on a plot of land you would probably end up spending more on taxes. Alternatives would including owning condos or investing in REIT funds as an alternative. There is real equity to be had in OWNING property the fees come from the problems that come with owning property. Upkeep if you have a long term renter any maintenance on hardware like oven, fridge, dryer etc. Then taxes of course. A good method would be purchasing the home and then renting it for your apartment rent plus profit.

>>12669887
Completely viable but you're gonna have to go beyond monk lifestyle and probably full cocoon mode if you make anything less than mid 50K annual range. FIRE can be attainable but it's on you to how bad you want it and how soon you want it.

>>12670775
Listen FIRE is not about never working again it's about not answering to a manager or working for someone else ever again.

It's becoming clearer and clearer that NEETs are looking for a way to live indefinitely as a NEET. FIRE is not going to help anyone with this shit its not a get rich quick and be set for life scheme which people seem to be looking for. FIRE is simply a way to become independently wealthy and then not have to grind away in a wage cage.

It lets you focus on the things you are passionate about and be able to make money from that rather than working a traditional 9-5

>>12671044
>retirement is not about is not about retiring

>>12665398
>I love Spartan living

Have you ever read a book about ancient Sparta? Do you know why they live like that? It wasn't to retire early, no. Do you also know what else they did? They would share their wives as a way to perform proto-eugenics. Maybe you would like to share your gf/wife as well so that she can give birth to a stronger child?

How do you guys have so much money in stocks or even worse, banks. I would never feel safe a bulk of my money in 1 place. I really dont trust banks, my father in law lost all savings when a bank went under during the recession, literally 20 years of savings. Thats why i believe bitcoin will make it since its tried and tested, trustless code.

I mostly keep my money in cash and when it piles up i buy real estate. Is there any safer path? Also about 10% goes into btc and some playing around money.

>>12671120
Semantics. Ok anon. You're absolutely right better to work nonstop for 40 years and then at 65 retire about retiring. Withdrawing from the pension you don't have the social security which may cover a movie and some popcorn for the month, but at least you're retired right?

That is arguably way better than retiring from a corporate position at 35 and taking on projects as you see fit whenever you want or not. Not because you need to but because you can then get a purely expendable 2k for 10 days worth of work and spend that on all the frivolous shit you abstained from while you still have the youth to do so with no Monday morning meeting or manager to answer to or co-worker to explain why you came in late or went on a crazy bender or flew off to Vegas instead of showing up.

Damn anon you really opened my eyes. I'm going to go back to sucking Mr. Shekelgoldepsteinburgeichre-Arinoffowitzmannglickgofdeon-Yurkovichrubescapes dick for another 58 years instead of doin this whole FIRE thing. Next time take the bagel out of your mouth before you talk to me you fucking retard faggot.

>>12671339
>i believe bitcoin will make it since its tried and tested, trustless code.

>tried
>tested
>trustless

This is the current state of /biz/

>>12671430
So insightful and smart?

>>12671399
based

>>12671339
>have so much money in stocks
well, with index funds it's like owning many companies, not only one. I assume since the managing company actually owns all these there isn't the same risk as there would be with a bank
certainly wouldn't keep all my savings in one bank though
bitcoin is nice but split that across several hard wallets too rather than rely on one
buying real estate seems pretty sound. I'd like to buy some land sometime.

>>12671430
well he is not wrong. The market fucked up and the price went horribly south - but ask yourself, do you really think this will continue?

It’s not like the technical aspects of the product have decreased, rather the opposite. Deep down you know bitcoin is one evil unpredictable motherfucker that can come back one day...

>>12659725
do u think her ass smells like strawberries haha? thatd b cool haha. imagine she let u sniff haha

>>12660159
top kek. you are just like my father. He's going to work until 70 unless i can make it and bail him out. Just pump a smart chick and hope for an entrepreneurial baby, thats your last hope.

how much passive income per year would you all need to be able to at least semi-retire? i'm thinking minimum 50K (in today's dollars) to ensure a minimum level of continued investment

>>12659558
It's all just useless fiat with no value

>>12670943
the internet let the cat out of the bag. before poor people never knew there was a chance to retire early. if everyone youve ever met in life is a wageslave, it is the natural path. now the natural order of things is in danger.

>>12672732

Most people will still be wagecucking into their 60s and 70s Anon. It requires a

1. decent income
2. mental discipline not to spend
3. knowledge of investment options

to actually FIRE. Most people don't have 1 out of 3 much less all 3.

>>12672776

trudat. I spent all my money on Backpage girls between 2010 - 2016

>>12671044
>FIRE is not about never working again
Says who? It literally is early retirement = not working

Anyway what is up with burger fetishes for all these acronyms. DINK, FIRE and a million more.

>>12670803
>Every 34 dollar meal out is losing fucking thousands of dollars 10 years down the road

I didn't know the most sucessful investor of all time posted on biz. 34 dollars is barely even 100 dollars with decent returns after 10 years

>>12672879
fire is "financial independence / retire early"
its not necessarily about retiring early. some are in just for the financial independence and being able to work however they want

>>12670943
>my entire generation

Lol wut? my entire generation is spending their entire paychecks on car parts, alcohol, and sick Supreme clothes. theyre not ganna retire for 100 years at least at the rate tehyre going

i would say at most 15% of people are playing the markets, another 15% at most are playing with rental property

>>12673134
>my entire generation is spending their entire paychecks on car parts, alcohol, and sick Supreme clothes
it's comfy to know however retarded a lot on /biz/ seem we are still likely above 90% of the population in financial knowledge

>>12659558
You’re old as fuck 25k/y @ 25 years is 625k ? You like 60? Shit man buy link your time is running out. Sad!

>>12672879
now take that 34. and multiply it by all the times in a month people eat out. now multiply it by 12. then multiply it by 10. even if it was eating out twice a month following your 100 dollar return then . . . oh my god holy shit 24,000 dollars.

Whoa that's almost like, its almost as if, now wait a minute hold on here
>>12672879
>>>12670803(You)
>>Every 34 dollar meal out is losing fucking thousands of dollars 10 years down the road

Did I just get confirmed as THE MOST successful investor of all time? Holy shit blessed actual finance and business thread on /biz/

>>12668658
>People in Europe save more and spend less.
nigga what. yuropoor here, all the boomers i know have $10k at most in savings, and expect their state pension to carry them through the end of their life even though mathematically we won't be able to cover them all as soon as the early 2020s

>>12659558
I've never understood the mindset of people who work to earn money, so that they don't have to work. Working is much more pleasant once you have capital and security, and are working with your own ventures.

>>12659855
>Even if you accumulate 1 million (which you won't unless you don't buy a property), your returns will barely beat inflation.
False. The average post-inflation, post-dividend gains on the S&P 500 is 7%. If you had a million dollars in stocks, you would have a post-inflation profit of 70k annually. It would take about 300k in stocks in order to get $21,000 a year - about the minimum wage.

>>12675219
>Every 34 dollar meal out is losing fucking thousands of dollars 10 years down the road
>now take that 34. and multiply it by all the times in a month people eat out. now multiply it by 12. then multiply it by 10. even if it was eating out twice a month following your 100 dollar return then . . . oh my god holy shit 24,000 dollars.

If you weren't eating a $34 meal (holy shit that's expensive), lets assume would be eating a very high quality home cooked meal $10 twice a month, so the difference is $24.
Now if you invested that $24 into index funds tracking the entire market (lets assume 8% returns after inflation), that would be:
1st year $24*2*12monthes = $576 * 1.08 = $622
2nd ($622 + $576) * 1.08 = $1293
3rd (1293 + 576) *1.08 = $1869
4th (1869 + 576) *1.08 = $2641
5th (2641 + 576) *1.08 = $3475
6th (3475 + 576) *1.08 = $4375
7th (4375 + 576) *1.08 = $5347
8th (5347 + 576) *1.08 = $5923
9th (5923 + 576) * 1.08 = $7019
10th year (7019 + 576) *1.08 = $8202.6

So by not eating out twice a month for a decade, you could have made an extra $8200. Nice to have but it probably won't make a big difference between retiring or not.

>>12675397
do you think the S&P will continue like this forever? this is the common boomer metric, and if you believe it will continue for another 30 years, I'd be more careful

>>12675492
Except your math is about as retarded as you. For a FIRE budget of 100$ on quality ingredients you can eat like a king for an entire month. I'm talking nutrition not calories. So try that shit again with each meal costing about 3.28 and tell me what was difference is again?

I swear I can't tell who is jewing who. Since this is /biz/ there may legitimately be people WHO DO NOT WANT TO MAKE IT.

>>12675361
I think that's the point, being FI means not being a wagecuck at the whim of a sadistic boss

3% seems a bit high for div yield on index funds.

>>12665445
this. cucks thinking their index or mutual fund will survive the incoming crash are in for a surprise. Passive investing is a bubble and retail will get fucked.

>>12676224
there are many giving 3% or more, but less equity growth

>>12676293
how will index funds go bankrupt, friend?

>People on this thread making >20% yearly profit with their investments

Any company/rich guy would hire you for millions! dont waste your time!

After 6months of buying index funds I make about $20-30 per month in dividends

So in 10 years at a minimum, assuming no wage growth, no equity growth, make $400-$600 a month

sounds nice, reinvesting dividends, and with compounding, and wage growth, I could hit $1000-$1500 easily

>>12659558
You sound remarkably similar to me OP. I've got ~$420k in my portfolio, and have really gotten my cost of living down to a point where work is no longer necessary (pic is my total spending in 2018). I'm working a part-time wagecuck job for fun right now, wondering what the next step should be. My preferred FIRE resources:
>Early Retirement Extreme
>Mr. Money Mustache
>JL Colllins
And some basics like Rich Dad Poor Dad, Your Money or Your Life, etc.

>>12676481
Great. In a decade or two you could reitre to live in the worst neighborhood of thailand

>>12676515
>average of ~$1 day for entertainment
nice fucking life

>>12676515
>entertainment
>3%

are you sure thats how you want to live the rest of your life?

>>12676531
>>12676548
I get my movies, music, and books free from the library. I get my vidya free or on steam sales. I host movie/dinner nights, play in a band, participate in run and hiking clubs, and do all kinds of free cool stuff. I don't pay people to entertain me. All the best entertainment is free.

>>12676531
lmao wagelets when will they learn.

>>12676515
Real one status confirmed very familiar with MMM never heard of the other two. Will be reading up intensely soon. Thanks FIRE fren

if you've ever played a resource management game, you know the drill

super super greedy play in the beginning, spend all your resources on upgrades to increase your income, spend your upgraded income on more upgrades ideally you're barely hanging on but as time goes on all those upgrades pile up and your income is so high you just sit back and buy everything.

>>12676481
>>12676481
Talk about a cuck investment, index funds are such a meme

When Normies are all doing index meme investing, you know its worthless

>>12676578
So you are the singer? because even my shitty epiphone les paul was 450$

>>12676618
Check out the Early Retirement Extreme book, it's in a lot of library networks. JL Collins has a book too, The Simple Path to Wealth (basically a distillation of his free Stock Series from his website). Go get 'em FIRE bro!

>>12676620
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DinoPark_Tycoon

This was like this, you basically beat the game if you did that the first 10 mins

>>12676661
COMFY

Boomers absolutely TERRIFIED of financially responsible zoomers, because those zoomers will never buy their bags.

>>12660797
Depends on where you live. If you want to get them a house and live in a fairly cheap part of the country buy a duplex or 4 family and live in one unit.. this way your cost of living gets drastically brought down
I'm 23 and have 8 buildings from duplex to commercial... One rental property can start a chain effect

>>12676649
I played a $200 guitar for the first 15+ years, finally got myself an American deluxe stratocaster a few years ago. Playing guitar is a big part of my FIRE plans.

>>12676515

Housing? Where the fuck do you live Anon? Even if your place is paid off, you still have to pay taxes and maintenance

>>12677283
Bought a house cash, rent out rooms. That not only covers taxes and maintenance but puts some cash in my pocket. Texas.

>>12676527
>>12676633
So what should I invest in then?

>>12659558
>my friend is into FIRE
>his longtime gf leaves him because he became a retard who lived like a poor person and planned to retire on some tiny shit allowance
JUST

>>12659882
>comparing yourself to poorfags
>caring what porrfags have
wew

>>12662868
yeah you can finally turn that hobby you "love" into a low paying job... wait no one wants your paintings or fortnite streams

>>12676515
no rent? wtf is all that health shit?

>>12677639
>who lived like a poor person
Elaborate please

Will I make it?

>Currently have 85K invested
>Make 60K/year with 3-4% raises each year as an HVAC engineer
>Spend 21K/year, mostly on mortgage and train ticket to work
>Expect to have house paid off in 10 years
>I want to retire at 35
>I am 29

It's gonna be close, frens. I feel like taxes are going to screw me over. Buying my house was a mistake.

>>12677771
Judging by your digits no

>>12677682

The hobby that becomes a full-time or part-time job after retirement is different for everyone. I personally am planning on either becoming a financial advisor (which doesn't sound very retired), teaching high school physics, working part time as a bike mechanic, or replenishing the population of wild Amazon parrots. Fortunately, you choose, it's done with the goal of making you happy, not to win arguments against strangers on the internet.

>>12676527
>>12676633
Y'all niggas need to answer this guys question cause that's my plan
>>12677620
>So what should I invest in then?

>>12676720
>One rental property can start a chain
Any advice as to what my first rental property should be?
What I've seen in my area is someone buy a 3 bedroom family home here then build a double story 6 room building for tenants wanting a one room with shared showers and kitchen(I live in South Africa so alot of foreigners and township people looking to live near the city for work).
It'll take me some time to get that much but my idea was to get a family home(my mother left me her apartment which I'm currently living in so I don't have to rent or buy my own place luckily) and then rent that out for passive income.
But maybe you have a better idea for rental property to start out with?

>>12676293
>Passive investing is a bubble
tfw 50 year old bubble

>>12677320
So you're not independent yet

>>12677620
Research solid blue chips that are still growing like Visa, etc.

You will never get rich doing what everyone else does

I can't believe this thread is still up. Bump because it's one of the few not completely fucking retarded threads.

>>12673134
>ganna

>>12671399
>Damn anon you really opened my eyes. I'm going to go back to sucking Mr. Shekelgoldepsteinburgeichre-Arinoffowitzmannglickgofdeon-Yurkovichrubescapes dick for another 58 years instead of doin this whole FIRE thing. Next time take the bagel out of your mouth before you talk to me you fucking retard faggot.
kek

>>12659558
nice. I will have 400k USD cash in 3 years after taxes/cost of living and I have a 500k CAD house waiting for me that i rent to pay taxes/fixes (mortgage free). I will be 29. I will stop working until i get bored of video games/jacking off and from there I have no plans.

bump

>>12670954
>while not entirely wrong this is partially flawed
While entirely right, you can't find a better solution.
If I were still single, I'd live in pic related and get a 24/7 $10/m gym membership that includes showers.
Now that I have kids, I'm choosing to stay in our starter home as opposed to getting a McMansion.

>>12670954
>A good method would be purchasing the home and then renting it for your apartment rent plus profit.
see
PERSONAL real estate isn't an investment. At best you break even.

Still lurking

>>12659836
>rejecting consumerism is for cuckolds
>living well on less money is gay
>debt-slave wagies are better positioned to survive the coming century of blood and fire than freemen with the time and energy to prepare their bodies, minds and families for the trials ahead
I don't have an anime face smug enough for your atrocious post

>>12681935

>rejecting consumerism is for cuckolds
>living well on less money is gay

These fuck boys are either going to be eating dogfood or working at Walmart when they are senior citizens

Wtf am I suppose to do with a tax free savings account?