/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>12567540
LOOOL who the fuck rents? That's a fucking waste of money. I'm lucky I have parents that allow me to save. I'm buying a house when I move out.

Renting comes off as being more expensive in the long run.

>>12567556
Example.
Say rent is 1200 a month. That's 576k in 40 years

>>12567561

It may actually be cheaper if you factor in property taxes/maintenance for buying a house

>>12567574
and don't calculate that the house in 30 years will don't gain ANY value.........

>>12567556
Enjoy being anchored to a single place for your whole life.

>>12567556
>privledge

>>12567583
No. You can sell it and buy somewhere else. Rinse & repeat. Or rent it out and go travelling.

>>12567556
people rent when the rents are lower than mortgages without having to save up over 150k+ for a down payment.

>>12567556
This. I may rent if I get a job that is too far away from my parents' house but that is unlikely given the transport system in my country. Would probably happen if I get a job abroad but that is very low probability, and if I take such a job I imagine that the money I'd be making would be so much compared to what I make here that it would be worth it.

>>12567579
>buy a house
>9 years into your 30 year mortgage, robots are 3d printing houses for 25% of what you paid for some piece of shit
OH NO NO NO NO
>buy a house
>interest rates keep going up
>real estate bubble pops
Meanwhile I simply scoop up on the cheap while avoiding years of jew interest payments and property taxes
OH NO NO NO NO HAHAHAHHA

>>12567794

>he didn’t already buy the dip

>>12567794
don't know what flyover you're from but houses in urban areas are only around 25% of the value of the property. even if 3d house printing because more efficient, it can't replace the land that it has to sit on. and land is what makes real estate valuable. the ability to travel conveniently.

>>12567583
You literally can't cash out. No one will everyone buy a house, because no one NEEDS a house.

>>12567583
Unless you buy at a highly inoppurtune time which is like one year out of every 10-20, you’ll never be anchored for more than 5-7 years before you can sell and break even. In many cases you’ll make a profit at that point. Buy a house. Spend the next 5 years saving to buy another, bigger one. Buy and move, rent the original. Do this once more. By the time you buy the third the two you own will be profitable to rent and you’ll have millions in property you get paid to own. Retire when ready.

>>12567794
>what is location
>what is zoning laws in cities like SF
>what is NIMBYism
>what is boomers wanting to preserve their house value by protesting agains anything and know people in the right places

questions?

>>12567794
That location though

>>12567540
Are things going to be even worse for zoomers? The way things are going they might have to live with their parents for their entire lives.

This is assuming the bubble doesn't pop, which is surely taking its sweet time.

>>12567540
How do you rent a face

>>12567847
this. there's literally zero chance cities actually make progress at increasing supply enough to actually affect prices. there's just way to much invested in the way things are and it's a third rail that no politician will touch (even if they'll take steps to do it nominally).

Fucking hell, americans are so insanely pathethic.

>>12567877
and then you have the whole sector with apartments, more companies move into cities like AUstin and NYC every year. Big boomer offices outside is a thing of the past

>>12567794

Based and redpilled

>>12567846

what a load of dave ramsey hyperboomer tier shit. "just save to buy another bro, then save to buy the third b urself"
How the fuck will you save for another house if you have fuckall left after paying taxes, mortgage, buying food and other shit. Unless you earn six figures, in which case if you live in bumfuck nowhere with cheap RE you're already rich and if it's a big city then you will be saving until you're 90 years old.
Not to mention market corrections, recessions, health issues and unemployment. Fuck if it's so easy why aren't all most millenials and genX'ers retired real estate moguls yet.

>>12567540
Can't wait to pass down a rental contract in my will

>>12567579
without high cost repairements in 30 years house will lose value, land will gain probably unless land taxes go up trendemously or area becomes negative net migration. people dont take into account repairement costs included when they look oh property price is up

>>12568026
I make low six live in a medium sized city in the US support a family on my salary alone and pay a mortgage on a $500k house and save around $20-30k/year. In 1-2 years I’ll get another nice raise and in 5 I’ll have saved $150k. My $500k house will be worth $550-600k, I’ll be able to rent it and make around $300-500 profit which I will put towards maintenance costs since renters are shit. I’ll buy a $700k house with my savings. It’s really not that hard if you manage your money correctly, and it’s not like finding a six figure job these days is difficult. Any big tech company will pay that for like half or more of the roles they hire for.

>>12567556
Have fun paying for shit that breaks and paying for a person to fix that shit that breaks. A single pipe burst would cost you thousands.

>>12567556
>haha why not live with your parents
Because some people have poor parents and a lot of people have terrible parents. Be careful where you take your smugness in public because someone who actually has to face the reality of this world on his own rather than living in the luxury of a rent free fantasy would probably have a good time re-arranging your pudgy momma boys face

>>12568101
you can get insurance for that though.

>>12568026
>>12568088
lol i was just gonna pop in to say that boomers assume everyone is making over 100k when most of us are lucky to making 25k. But this guy took care of it for me, lmfao
>just get a six figure job
>getting a six figure hob is easy
>Everything went right for me it's easy

you fags will end up getting hung by spics and niggers while I'm laughing from my tent in the woods, I'll come out when actual working white men get together to clean up the commie marauders though. Shame that the wealthy, politicians and tech workers had to be sacrificed in order to sort everything out but I think we will be better off in the long run

>>12568145
That doesn't magically void the cost. It just spreads it out. And if something does break they'll raise your rates. You end up paying all of it and more eventually.

>>12568173
I don’t understand how you can be young and not make six figures within 5 years out of school. Did you not get the memo and get a CS degree? For $10-15k which can be financed you can go to a bootcamp and they’ll get you a $60k starting job. After 2-3 years you should be able to go make $90-120k easily. You have to be retarded to not make $100k as a millennial.

>>12567556
take note: this is what actual privilege looks like

>>12568272
depending on how much damage is. minor things that are less then 1 grand aren't worth reporting. but broken pipes, water damage, fire damage, sewer backup and stuff is worth it. it's like 90bucks a month for my home insurance that covers fire, water and earthquake with 2k deductible.

>>12568273
Bootcamps have a 50-60% employment outcome at best, and only prepares you to be hit a glass ceiling without a CS degree

>>12568125
I would bet my ass you couldn't kick mine,faggot
>inb4 internet tough boy
No,I've genuinely worked out more than most people on this planet ever would
>>12568272
Lol no. Have fun wasting over 500k on rent in your lifetime.

>>12568287
It's called not having scumbag parents. I'm sorry your parents are assholes.

>>12568273
>100k as a millenial
Honestly, that's a very dumb comment.
44% of 22-27 yr old college grads are underemployed.

26% of ALL cs majors are underemployed as well https://www.statista.com/statistics/642226/underemployment-rate-of-us-college-graduates-by-major/#0
Pretty shitty job market

Also, pic related.

>extremely competent at what I do
>tfw too retarded and socially anxious to make tons of money

>>12568287
>having loving parents who care for you is "privilege"

take note: this is what a communist looks like

>>12569122
you mean smothering, not loving . they intentionally cripple you so they don't feel alone because nobody likes them

>>12569142
>because nobody likes them
>trying to cope this hard
Have fun wasting your money

>>12568125
based

>>12569142
lmao the absolute state of white parents. Must suck to have parents who divorce 3 times and grandparents shipped off to old people’s homes and forgotten

>>12569198
Nope
>>12569019
This is based. That fucker probably can't even do my 16 yr old workouts. 100% serious.

>>12569201
>Must suck to have parents who divorce 3 times and grandparents shipped off to old people’s homes and forgotten
Lol projecting. Unlike your parents, mine are married. Wtf are you talking about, assclown?

Imagine having kids and only able to rent
Imagine growing up in an apartment
Imagine being that white trash
fucking millennials needs to be erased the parents really fucked up with these kids today man

>>12569228
>parents really fucked up with these kids today man
Boomers had it easier so it's not actually millenial's fault at all. Higher cost of living and school is more expensive.
https://www.cheatsheet.com/money-career/5-ways-baby-boomers-had-big-advantages-over-millennials.html/

>>12567583
You do rest we are in a housing shortage right? nuFamilies are desperate to buy anything at any price since they can get 0% mortgages again

>>12569276
You guys forget about the Friedman doctrine & Nixon taking the gold away...
>MUH BOOMERS
Those 2 issues & just banking in general are the reasons!

>>12567556
>who the fuck rents?
People that wanna fuck.
>hey anon, let's go back to your place
>uh... I live with my mom...

>>12569320
Chads don't care. They fuck with their mother next door. Know one that does that.

>>12569320
Have fun wasting money. I look good actually, but I don't even want to be with some whore
>inb4 incel
Nope, statistics. Most women are whores and I'm not interested unless I find a diamond amidst the ocean of shit.

>>12567556
Same here ignore all these jealous losers with shitty parents

>>12569348
So your going to buy this house cash?

ITT: Whiny pussies who are too afraid to get under big boy mortgage and too entitled to get a condo

>>12567561

Rent follows inflation and any price movements in an area. More than likely your rents go up with time.

Buying a house means locking in the payment at X price. Inflation will eat away at it, appreciation will cover some of the interest. Then when all is said and done you have something you can sell for a solid return.

Only reason one should rent is because there are literally no buying options in their area or they're constantly moving. If you're in San Fran or NYC just move somewhere affordable and stop being retarded.

>>12569380
Maybe. I just want a 200k home. Less if possible. I live in california tho so that will be hard to find. Median cost of a home here went up by 120k in the past 3 years apparently wtf and the median cost is now 393k.

Apparently some houses can be bought in auctions too so I was going to look into that as well.

>>12567877

Little known secret of the Democratic Party is that most of their super wealthy make money through real estate. There's a reason why deep blue cities/states have the most stringent housing regulations and ridiculous housing costs, the Dem donor kike landlords keep it that way hard. Then peddle some shit about "runaway corporations" to keep their blue haired and nigger retard constituents occupied while not realizing they are literally living in bondage in their own city. Wolf vs sheep

>>12569390
I think so, I think there is an argument for renting if you want maintenance free living. You will be paying more than if you bought, but I think its like paying for a hotel long term.

>>12567794
Actually building the house does not cost that much, what is extremely expensive is land and the location which are not going to reduce anytime soon considering demographic (more people living longer).
That said shit will blown up at one moment or another in cities pozzed by immigrations and/or completely revolving around one sector, San Fransisco will probably be the new Detroit in 2030-2040.

>>12569320
Chad would fuck even if he lived in a retirement home with his grandma.
Pro-tip: rules women come with are for beta, I saw countless times women who wouldn't date an average guy unless he had a car/flat and a good career path, then they go fuck some wannabe musician semi-hobo chad living in a fucking truck.

>>12567794
>9 years into your 30 year mortgage, robots are 3d printing houses for 25% of what you paid for some piece of shit

all the cost is in the land you dumb fuck

>>12567540
You're always renting just a matter of if you landlord is the government or not.

>>12569390
>Then when all is said and done you have something you can sell for a solid return.
And then what? Live under a bridge for the rest of your life? You have to buy somewhere else to live but the prices of those places will have gone up too, and if your were planning on getting a bigger place, that will have gone up even more than your current house. Housing bubbles only benefit boomer landlords who own multiple houses. A massive cost to everybody else in society.

>>12569404
Cool dude! best of luck!
just want to explain something...
Once you buy a home for 200k lets say then, you are going to use most if not all of your capital. Lets say you can make 10% annually from that capital, compounded yearly
220 - 1
242 - 2
266 - 3
294 - 4
320 - 5
350 - 6
385 - 7
420 - 8

In 7+ years you get a free house & still have the 200k. This is why renting is good, no liability, no loss of capital.

465 - 9
510 - 10
560 -11
610 -12
670 - 13
740 - 14
810 - 15
890 - 16
980 - 17
You made a Mill

I know its not glamorous, but my point is its quicker to get there if you don't destroy your capital.
Not that your life will be terrible if you buy a house.

>>12567794
Bricks and mortar are the cheap part.

>>12567540
Fuck you, I'm not renting my face

>>12569847
How thick are you? You don't buy a 200k house with 200k. You buy with 10-20k. Then, you spend the next several years spending about the same or less as you would have renting, except each payment pays off a loan and translates into a hard asset. Also, if you choose a house wisely and make good repairs in it, you can sell it for more than you bought it, meaning you can live in a nicer house with more equity and similar payments. It's pretty much the opposite of a car.

>>12569935
What happens if the bank calls in the loan?
Other than the $13k annually/30 year liability, how much extra you going to pay?
You going for interest only?
What happens if you bought the top & the house falls in value?

>>12569083
says premium account is needed, can you post a screenshot

>>12567540

I’d rather live out of my car than give another penny to a scumlord

>>12570009

I don't know if it is the same in other countries, but most mortgages in the US are immediately sold to government sponsored agencies such as Fannie and Freddie, and they can not be called in early.

If you're financially stable, you can easily ride out a couple years of slow housing market, obviously you're gonna get fucked in the ass if you overleveraged.

>>12569935
FYI i asked him if he was going to buy the house cash...He said he was!
Please show me how you can pay for this
>pend the next several years spending about the same or less as you would have renting

>>12570047
That's weird. Never heard of that, but here's a screenshot.

>>12569847
which house price grows 10% a year every year for 17 years
youre making too many wild assumptions

>>12570068
If he's buying cash, he has a slower inbestment than 10%, but never has to pay for housing ever again (outside of property tax) that's a significant extra chunk of change every month. It's also worth noting that property is one of the main reasons to save money. In your example, what do you buy once you've made the million?

>>12570088
>https://www.statista.com/statistics/642226/underemployment-rate-of-us-college-graduates-by-major/#0
I meant this one, it is not the same as your pic right?

>>12570163
Costs 600. Post the numbers you ass

>>12567794
>thinks rich people are going to buy cookie cutter homes in the middle of no where
>thinks the cost of materials to buy the home are the expensive part

>>12570163
>>12570088
nevermind now it suddenly works

>>12570177
You're living in the past m8, the cost of materials tripled from 2011 to 2018. A mediocre deck costs 20k in materials alone.

>>12567540
@bbcanal sums up pretty well current state of crypto and biz

>>12570061
>several
Thats more than two but not many.
>spending about the same or less as you would have renting
The rent & mortgage are roughly equal.
If he rented for 7 years & kept his capital separate he could have a house in 7 years!
Paying 7 years of rent to the mortgage company you still got years left on the mortgage...
Your way is a way, but is it actually quicker/cheaper/less liabilities in the process?

>>12570132
I was not talkin about house prices going up! I was talkin about investments, ~10% is the S&P 500 annually, roughly! See you can't sell a house quickly...Now a REIT, quick exit, but roughly the same profit...

>>12570141
>In your example, what do you buy once you've made the million?
He has a 100k/year comin in, i don't know retire...

>>12570163
I see. For some reason it doesn't show anymore when I click on the link

>>12570088
So you're saying the more rich people you have, the better off everyone else is?

>>12567819
>That was the dip
We're looking at most houses losing 20-30% in value in the next few years bucko. Right now you're just seeing ripples from the massive inflation of megacities no longer having every Chinese rhino horn salesman paying $500k for a nigger den.

>>12570215
100k isnt that much, and you can't really push for 10% when you're retired. And where are you going to live?

>>12569847
>Lets say you can make 10% annually from that capital
Lets not

>>12567556

If you buy a house, you will still pay rent in the form of Property Taxes.

You will ALWAYS pay property taxes to the government. And if you don't pay them, the government will come in and take "your" home.

To find out how much you will pay in rent for the rest of your life, take the annual property tax and divide it by 12 months. There ya go. That's your monthly rent.

The difference is you paid a mortgage, which is principle AND interest. You LOST more money than renting. Congrats, you fell for the BOOMER meme.

>>12570221
Well, my my point was just how shitty pay is very common and millenials basically have it rough.

>>12570212
and the dirt underneath the home 10Xed you brainlet, jesus christ biz is fucking retarded

>>12570009
mortgages are the most retail investor friendly forms of leverage you can get. your whole argument is a red herring because every other leveraged asset class has interest and risk associated with it.

>>12570283

You do know how landlord determine the market rate for rent right? It include, their mortgage payment, the property tax, along with all the associated expenses of maintaining that property. Nobody becomes a landlord to lose money.

>>12569551
Retire in Phillipines with 600k cash, you fucking retard.

>>12570236
Have you worked this out on a excel spreed sheet?
I have, can't find it, sadly.
Take the S&P 500 annually for the last 30 years (a mortgage length). Put in a downpayment amount for a house...You will get more than the value of the house after 30 years! Also calculate how much you actually paid for the house after the mortgage is paid off! Now if the market is going into recession you can withdraw your funds...If you have a house your stuck, there not quick to sell.

Question?
2 options
you can have $1k Right now
OR
a penny that will double every day for 30 days. which one do you want?

>>12569142
lmao this is some really strong COPE

>>12570329
renting out a property makes your entire argument irrelevant and you fallaciously assume that someone is going to hold an investment property for the entire 30 years. you also don't recognize that housing is a sunk cost that you are going to have to pay no matter what unless you go full on van-life hobo.

>>12570362
Read>>12570215
Work it out on excel, ffs i think i might have to, just to show you

>>12570318

yes that is true

the difference is that I don't pay interest on that mortgage and many times, the rent is cheaper than owning

couple that with the fact that I can move whenever I want and don't have to be held down to 15 or 30 years, and many buildings have great amenities like parking, security, or even a pool

All maintenance falls on the landlord, so not a dime out of my pocket for repairs. The landlord handles that nightmare

>>12570384

The landlord covers maintenance with leftover rent after their mortgage, insurance, and other fixed expenses are paid.

Amenities are paid for through HoA fee.

Nothing is ever free in regards to your housing cost. It is all accounted for, because those who don't make a profit go bankrupt.

The number one reason to rent, is if you don't know if your job will be stable for the long term and don't want to be tied down. Not because you save money.

>>12570329

Rent inflation rises at twice the rate of monetary inflation rate. Cost of housing always trend upward, significantly faster in metropolitan areas. Did you account for that in your calculation?

>>12570283
https://www.trulia.com/voices/Home_Buying/how_much_are_property_taxes_on_a_home_which_costs_-430113

1.25% × 200k = 2,500 a yr so 125k after 50 years for property tax

Say I put a 100k down payment and a 15 yr mortgage plan including interest, that's a total of 335k.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/mortgage-calculator/calculate-mortgage-payment

>>12567540

I currently rent a one bedroom for $712.96 CAD a month in the middle of Ottawa. This cost is split with my girlfriend. I can see myself living here for a long time as we don't plan on having kids. Over 25 years this will cost me $106,944, probably less than interest paid on a mortgage of a house in Ottawa at the end of a 25 year amortization period. This doesn't factor in rent increases, which are never more than 2% a year.

Since my rent is so low, I am able to save at least $1000 per month, and this is at a low wage of $15.50 per hour. In 25 years I will have saved at least $300,000, assuming no raises and not even factoring in returns on investments. This is enough for a down payment on a house in Ottawa or enough to buy property in the country, which we might want to do by that time.

Renting doesn't look so bad when I lay it out this way.

I know I am very lucky to have found this apartment though. Average cost of a one bedroom in Ottawa is $1200.

>>12570383
how about you re-read my post? having someone else pay your mortgage is a huge gain in capital at someone elses expense. there is a reason why Marx bitched about landlords so much. i dare you to show me how the S&P can beat a rental property, especially when you factor in what a phenomenal tax shelter they are.

>>12570329
Bad comparison. We are not debating the merits of compounding interest in general. Over 30 days, there is not much you can do with 1k that will beat a penny doubling every day. But when we're talking about the real economy over decades, and we have to ask ourselves what we really want with all the money, the answer is not so simple. Keep in mind, the 200k you're talking about investing--you don't get to use that for anything else. Whatever salary you were using to accumulate it, you still have to getting to keep yourself alive, to pay for rent. So over 10 years you're working a similar job, not touching any of your savings, so that at the end of 10 years, you can live on a salary of 100k that is seriously vulnerable to trade winds. With that 100k, are you going to buy a house? Will you have to save up for several years to buy a house? And why stop after 10 years? Why not go 20? After all this, what do you get for it. Yes you've amassed a large stash, but what can you really spend your money on that's worth it after 20 years with your nose to the grindstone? If you buy the house, you keep the 200k, get to actually experience the money, and transform living expenses into a modest invest. Not 10%, but not terrible. In fact, if you really want to be aggressive, you can keep saving to buy more houses that you rent, turning property into income, which can then be put into a 10% account. As a single action, your version seems better. When you start looking at life altogether, it stops making as muchsense.

>>12569847
Mortgage is leverage for the common man, that's the key

>>12569142
You're really disgusting. Just repulsive.

I'm back living at home at 28. I don't want to live in this area forever, but it would be wiser to just save up for a small home rather than looking for an apt to rent?

>>12570482
>>12570483
House price rise 5.4% annually.
~10% on the S&P even if you include the down years, that includes -38% for 2008!
So ~ double! More if your smart.
+ if you are the landlord it involves work or a maintenance fee will suck up your profit.
REIT are tax free...

So Historically, (from '89) You buy 100k (average house) its worth 550k in '19.
you put same money in the stock market you get 1MM, thats without touching it when it goes down!

>But you gotta rent!
Sure, I am not sayin he has to wait 30 years! but if he waits 7 years & rents he can get a house for 'free'.
I think the other issue is you are a landlord & think property prices only go up...

Loans are getting difficult to obtain...

House prices, they are not derived from the house...Its a function of the monetary system. Mortgages are one of the biggest way to expand monetary supply. If there not being issued the economy is not growing. Wages are not rising, these houses have reached a peak RN! As most can't get a loan for a house they want. Another reason is b/c 2 wages became accepted for the mortgage...God dam women ruining the family! But even still people can't afford a house RN.

Playing devils advocate
Conversely with my BS about the S&P...Thats not going to do so good over the next few years. The boomers have been market buying every month via pension funds, keeping the price stable/rising. They are not inputing money any more, they are withdrawing it! That is not a good thing, Hence why we are see the open market operations.

The are pros and cons you plebbit faggots.
One strategy does not fit all.
Though I can understand the housing bubble,
My fucking boomer father took 100k loan for 5 years, paid back ...wait for it...108k.
There were times of literally free money.

>>12567794

>>12571265
>The are pros and cons you plebbit faggots
There was a /thread on /biz/ a few hours about jerkin off to cartoon children & people justifying how they weren't pedos...

At least this is /biz/ related...

>>12570421
> He fell for the HOA meme

>>12569142
Just because you aren't living in and spending a fortune on a shoe box apartment downtown so you can fuck every night doesn't mean you're crippled.

>Rent inflation rises at twice the rate of monetary inflation rate. Cost of housing always trend upward,
How come?
At some point wages and housing need to converge.

>>12569494
This, as evidenced by all the 1 acre (or smaller) plots with dilapidated old houses out there selling for exorbitant prices. Houses, like cars, are depreciating assets, with mobile homes especially so. They have a finite lifespan and will eventually deteriorate to the point that they need to be replaced or overhauled at great cost. Land does not depreciate, although its value will rise and fall with changes in demand, so it really is all about location.

>>12569551

>and then what

You get hundreds of thousands of dollars to do whatever you want with, retard. You may choose not to make any more payments for anything, or buy a better place.

t. millenial landlord

>>12567561
rent never stays the same for 40 years

>>12567540
>apartments
yeah hell no. thats just throwing money away. an apartment is a glorified hotel room.

BUY CHEAP CONDOS FFS
>you can pick up a condo for around $70k
>build up decent credit and get a loan
>almost never get rejected
>eventually own the condo and can resell for more than u put in
>money isnt wasted on paying some kike rent

>>12571730

Scarcity of space combined with need being concentrated more and more into fewer desirable urban areas. If you want to live in a rural shithole with nothing to do, you can do that quite cheaply.

>>12571545
I live with my parents and this has been my only beef.

That said I saved 40 grand in under 2 years.