/biz/ - Business & Finance

learning to program so you can create a game is like learning to become a surgeon so that you can be a veterinarian. op is a faggot.

>>12524786
1~3 Months if you're not a complete brainlet

>>12524786
the programing language itself? almost instantaneously, basically on-the-run.
learning how to structure your program so that you don't have to overhaul already existing solutions again and again as it grows?
good luck with that...
also: most of the work is content creation and i guarantee you are underestimating it. there are strong templates for basically everything 2005ish in terms of generic gameplay (climbing, shooting, generic pathfinding, inventory,hud etc.), so the programming itself isn't your biggest worry.
how are you going to record your audio and where? where are you going to get exotic sounds etc. from? who's going to make all the models, animations (insane amount of work if done well), materials, custom shaders? the level design once most of the content is there?
even if you are aiming for muh random 10h SOMA-clone its easily a 5-20 man job.

Op here id likely changed.

>>12524850
I've gotten to the point where I know how to do things such as:
> Statements such if/else if
> Arrays
> Vectors (suck at it but probably cause I didn't learn too much about it, shouldn't be too hard)
> Pointers
> Functions
> Structures
> File storage (only lightly learned it would need hands on experiencr to understand it better)
> Classes (lightly as I'm just learning them)
How much of a ways do you think I have to go for decent proficiency of C++?


>>12524883
> so that you don't have to overhaul already existing solutions
I had that happen in a text based video game I made. To some extent I'm partially doing this for fun.

>>12524809
and yet the world still needs vets but not faggots like you.

>>12525044
Proficiency doesn't matter, just start building your project. When you come to a roadblock, figure it out.
A kid I went to high school with went from knowing literally 0 C++ to building a game from scratch within 3 months.
It was a shitty game, and they have since rewritten their engine more times than I can count, but they were able to make something.
Where tf do you live to think that 45k is a salary that C++ developers make

Dont learn C++. That language is a headache wrapped around a migraine. learn scheme or something

>>12524786
Author of game engine here, I've known C++ for about 14 years and several overhauls of my engine expanding into multiple programming languages and execution environments single-handedly has been a roughly 10 year adventure for me, of on-and-off development, more seriously though in the past 4-5 years. I started self teaching C++ in middle school.

>>12524786
>1. How long does it take to become proficient at C++ in terms of programming a video game on your own that has both graphics and audio?
I would recommend C# and Unity3D unless you want to spend many years and endure many hardships

>2. How long would it take to learn the necessary knowledge to also be able to make your own engine?
How is this different from question #1? The engine would have taken care of the graphics and audio so not sure why you included it in the "become proficient at C++" question. Unless you're saying you want to learn C++ AND learn how to make game graphics and sound effects for a game?
Making an engine alone takes A LONG FUCKING TIME (unless you're okay with it being shit). Also maintenance is what becomes a much bigger problem.

>3. What about just learning C++ in general, how long until an average person reaches decent proficiency say for a job that pays 45k+?
Get a college degree if this is unironically your fallback plan. How many people do you think want to hire someone "who thinks they're good at C++"? You're talking about a serious language for serious applications. The companies looking for C++ developers don't want people who are going to create big gaping vulnerabilities.

If you're going for easymode just do wordpress webdev or some shit.
If you're serious about becoming a game developer, go to community college, get your CS degree, and practice with real game engines before you even think about making your own.

>>12524786
Also join the /agdg/ discord. On /vg/ there's a general called /agdg/ (Amateur Game Dev General) that's almost always up. They talk about amateur deving, provide links to resources, advice, and info on game jams (i.e. small little create-a-small-game competitions so you're forced to actually publish SOMETHING that people can see)

>>12524786
10 years more or less

>>12525044

Probably sub 1%, that means >99% to go for decent proficiency. Sounds like your first beginner week if you don't even know classes well. You need to have developed several, at least midsized programs, to claim such level.

1) abysmally coded game: a few weeks - a few months; good coded game: ~2+ years.

2) making an engine (and only the engine) will probably take 1-2 years if based on openGL and it will be very shitty. You can make an engine, just don't use it for your game, because it will suck.

3) I don't know anythign about the job market, if i had to guess most likely 2+ years, but if you code like a madman (14+hours/day) it could be faster.

>>12525147
He can unironically go from basic C# knowledge to a novice game developer by just using unity3d and following some of the hundreds of tutorial series out there.

I forgot to mention OP: There are quite a few shit resources out there (like youtube vid series from people who have bad coding/deving habbits). I think udemy courses or Lynda.com courses are probably a good place to start unless you're willing to read textbooks (I read textbooks, but to each their own).
Some public or private (university) libraries offer free Lynda.com membership and don't charge you anything to get a library card. So maybe look into that.

Far as youtubers go
quill18 is okay; he's tried his hand at a few different types of games. I don't like his coding style but it can get you started.
Sebastian Lague is really good, but you do need some broad knowledge (in C# and in unity) to put the deving you do while following his tutorials into an actual game

Text-based tutorials
I guess catlikecoding does some pretty neat stuff (the maze lesson was kinda boring to me), but you won't be making a full game from those either desu - it's more for learning the utility-side of game making with unity3d

>>12525065
Yeah I jump back and forth between learning and putting it to use, making sure I understand the material. I live in California, idk how much they make just doing general C++ work. I picked 45k since after taxes I'd have 30k. I know it's not a lot but thats a little over enough to meet my needs. Anyways I've never had great odds at getting high wage jobs.

>>12525072
I've seen java which looks like it might be able to meet my desires of making a certain style of game I'd like to make. However it feels like I've gotten pretty deep in C++ so no intent of trying to learn a different programming language atm.

>>12525099
Thanks for the info. Started self teaching, for the most part, last year. Currently in my mid 20's.

>>12525132
Considering getting an engine as I've heard it before, that making an engine is a large hassle. I just threw question 3 in for kicks. I doubt I'd ever consider getting a programming job.

>>12525278
See >>12525132, he is 110% correct on everything

I will add that casual C++ doesn't exist. In the wild, the language is always tightly coupled with enterprise frameworks and miscellaneous cruft. Learning the pure language won't translate to industry usage and you will probably take as long to ramp up as someone with no language experience but stronger structural fundamentals.

If you're interested in systems or low-level hacky shit like graphics engines, you might look at C. It's a hoot and is tiny. You can use it to teach yourself how to allocate memory safely and what things look like when you do everything wrong (e.g. segfaults).

>I've seen java which looks like it might be able to meet my desires of making a certain style of game I'd like to make. However it feels like I've gotten pretty deep in C++ so no intent of trying to learn a different programming language atm.
Can you expand on this?

>>12525142
Thanks.

>>12525147
Lol I had an estimate it would take 10 years to get to the point of being able to make a good game and it selling well but that's just me being hopeful.

>>12525194
I'm in my mid 20's and have a job so I can't really study that much. Unlikely to actually want a programming job though. I barely got to classes, I was learning input and output like 6 months ago not to mention I wasn't studying much.

>>12525196
I study programming from a book, seems to have it structured well in terms of me easily understanding it. Thanks for that library card and getting Lynda.com for free idea.

>>12525381
I'm doing it for fun and somewhat in hopes of getting rich off of it. Not holding my breath in terms of getting rich off of it. As for java I saw that some of the games are capable of a certain level of graphics and doing certain in game actions, that I might want in a game of mine. Combine that with the fact that java is supposedly simplier (idk), it now sounds like an easier alternative to C++.

>>12524786
if you haven't used c++ for programming yet you might me fucked trying to make an engine from scratch. try unity (or unreal if you are determined to use c++)

>>12525541
You’re lazy. I work 10 hour days and work on programming related projects in my spare time. Never gonna make it.

>>12524809
Bad analogy.

>>12524786
Learning to program C++ so you can create a video game is like learning to make a sandwich so you can open a nation-wide multi-billion-dollar high class restaurant.

Just use a game engine. Learning C++/C# isn't hard and will probably be required to learn even with a game engine. But it won't be hard to learn and it will be a lot easier than trying to make a game from scratch. You will literally give up like millions have before you.

>>12525573
Have programmed before. I'm op btw id changed. Might consider a premade engine due to all the effort it takes to make one that I've read here and elsewhere.

>>12525573
Have programmed before. I'm op btw id changed. Might consider a premade engine due to all the effort it takes to make one that I've read here and elsewhere.

>>12525598
I think that analogy makes sense. Basically you're saying that it takes more than just C++ to make a video game right?

>>12524786
Just use Unity like a sensible person. You aren't going to be able to replicate something better in a reasonable amount of time.

>>12524786
check out the tutorials on youtube for how to make a cutting edge game engine