/biz/ - Business & Finance

serious question. how would you be able to detect any double spend or any chain re-org on monero?

and how do we know it hasn't happened already

Do it then faggot. Also btc is the only cucks around here. Bch is the bull

>>12377002
You can still see where the coins come from and that they are spending more coins than they have. It's just obfuscated from the address that received the coins.

>>12376959
Those numbers are wrong, they are derived from the block reward. You forget that miners are also mining at loss.
For guessing the right value you need the hash rate of the network, the hash rate of a single card and its power consumption and the electricity costs.
For the monero you will get this numbers:

Network hashrate: 376 mhash/s
Typical single card hash (nvidia 1080): 1 kh/s
Power consumption of this card 400 watt
Electricity costs 20 cent/kwh

Assuming that you need to double the network hash rate for a 51% attack, you will need roughtly 30 k usd per hour plus hardware.

>>12377002
Monero hash rate is well distributed among the miners, see pic.

>>12376959
>XMR and BCH cucks on suicide watch. It literally costs pennies to 51% attack
Implying BCH miners aren't the same as BTC miners, allowing them to quickly thwart the attack...
Agreed on XMR tho, they need to become more ASIC-friendly

>>12377761
t. Bitmain chink

>>12377345
It doesn't matter, all gpu miners are one big pool. Buy monero hash high, and within a day enough eth miners will switch to give you full control.

>>12377784

A botnet attack would be extremely easy on XMR. This whole anti-asic sentiment isn't based in reality

>>12377842
Bot nets will not give you much hash, since they are mosly old pcs with windows xp running. An old cpu has no AES instruction set, means it will give you 50 hash/s at maximum. You will need 7.5 mil winXP computers. The biggest bot net according to wikipedia has 450k computers. Stop FUDing, troll.

>>12377897

>The biggest botnet according to wikipedia

>>12376959
heh it literally only costs $70,766,206,830 to buy every single bitcoin (in practice). bitcoin BTFO

>>12377900
What is your argument troll?

>>12377915

hash power good
asics good

>>12377918
Asics bring centalisation of hashpower to the asic manufactors. Yes, it is that easy.

>>12377938

Companies who invest millions into ASICS have a bigger incentive to maintain both security and the chain's integrity than random fucks mining with their desktops.

The "big company bad!" thing is pure bullshit

>>12377784
t. Just being realistic, GPU friendliness was super cool for fairer distribution during the first year of existence of coins a few years back, but no ASIC-s nowadays means shit tier security.
>>12377897
>Bot nets will not give you much hash, since they are mosly old pcs with windows xp running. An old cpu has no AES instruction set, means it will give you 50 hash/s at maximum.
This is simply not true. AES instruction sets have been stardard throughout the last DECADE, you're implying that the botnet computers are not only old but ancient. Even at 7 years of average age (I'm being generous here) we're looking at 70%+ CPUs with an AES instruction set that can easily rape Monero's network hash rate.
>>12377938
ASIC manufacturers work on low margins and have stake in the game. You're not choosing between decentralization and centralization, you're choosing between centralization with asic manufacturors and centralization with a botnet purchaser. You want the former, and if you don't like it maybe you should give alternative consensus algos a chance.

>>12377956
You dont understand that mining is also a way to get coins. It is the real anonymous way. By GPU mining also 'random fucks' are able to get so xmr w/o KYC exchanges.

>>1237809
As I said in >>12377897 a bot net wont give you much mining power.

>>12378099
You forget that you have to run the CPU miners on botnets at low settings so their fans don't go off or their game slows down otherwise they figure it out and remove the bot. Also a lot of laptops so even worse. And most pcs are only online about 20% of the time.

>>12377956
You dont understand that mining is also a way to get coins. It is the real anonymous way. By GPU mining also 'random fucks' are able to get so xmr w/o KYC exchanges.

>>12378099
As I said in >>12377897 a bot net wont give you much mining power.

>>12378099
Bot net PCs are mostly running windows XP, they are typically 15 years old.

>>12378275

t. expert on the state of all botnets in the world because of a wikipedia article

>>12378297
I have a wikipedia article, but you have nothing.

>>12377826
Really activated my almonds

>>12378305
That wikipedia article supports my conclusion way more than yours. Wikipedia didn't put an upper-bound on botnets, it only shows what we already know. Larger botnets could absolutely exist.

Besides this whole point ignores the fact that a botnet doesn't have to attack xmr by itself. It could be used in conjunction with rented hash.

>>12377296

no they arnt, read it again.

>>12378413
>Larger botnets could absolutely exist.
We have to stick to what is know, not what could be, even on /biz/.

>used in conjunction with rented hash.
Same applies for ASICs.

You have no arguments.

>>12378275
ur a retard, i've been botnet gpu mining since btc and earned 3 btc a day on gpu botnet mining btc, dont look at wikipedia for articles on anything blackhat related, dont be a retard, kids will install your fortnite vbucks hack and u can use their GPUs without them noticing anything as well as CPU. can easily get 10k installs a day if u keep ur miner FUD updated

>>12378530
I understand the table. The 4,927 USD derive from 3,4 xmr/block * 49 usd/xmr * 30 blocks/hour = 4,998 USD/hour. Now read my post again, and bring arguments.

>>12378574
>ur a retard
Stop name calling.

>>12378534

Yep, bigger botnets definitely couldn't exist. This goes especially because the success of monero doesn't provides a massive incentive to create such a botnet.

You're too fucking stupid to argue with holy shit

>>12378617
i was just letting you know what the reality is, this isnt /r/CC so no need to act smart w your "arguments", i ran MULTIPLE 100k+ botnets and never got caught or owned by feds/AV companies

>>12378657
Could be, could be not. You have no proof.

>>12378734
please add t.retard on the end of your posts so we know in advance not to argue w r/CC retard

>>12378734
It's also funny to note that the success of monero creates a massive incentive to produce ASICs as well. Which means the dev team has to fork off constantly, which means the dev team has unilateral control to fork the chain whenever they want. Oops, back to centralization again! You just wasted all your time.

Just fuck off back to retardtown already you communist retard

>>12378601

no you dont, its the amount of money thats need to rent the hasrate thats need to 51% attack.

>>12378729
I have not seen reports about double spending on the monero network. So, even if such large scale botnets with >1M PC exist, the PCs arent on 24h and the mining is throttled to ~20% as the other anon said.

>>12378782
There is work ongoing on a new type of hashing algo which is giving lot less of advantage to the asic miners.

But never mind, just call other people retards and communists. That is what you can best.

>>12377345
>>12376959
Solves this problem

>>12378782
don't like the dev team? well then fork it yourself and make it asic friendly, and never update the code....oh wait, thats right they tried that with monero 0, monero V, monero unlimited, monero gold, monero copper, monero shitstain. sounds like people are voting with their computers and their wallet, like it was meant to be, and you were btfo. still salty?

>>12378871
All hashing algos can be made into an asic.

>>12378814
A random dude post a random pic w/o explanation on a canadian beard grow forum.


>its the amount of money thats need to rent the hasrate thats need to 51% attack
Source?

>>12378881
This right here.

>>12378601
you

are

a

idiot.


literally blind bc. of love.


>pic related

What you see is a marketplace list, of hashpower thats available to rent.

Buy 1MH/Day for 0.08BTC/Day ( 300$/Day )

keep on with your stupid calculations

>>12378905
>All hashing algos can be made into an asic.
Thats true, but the advantage can be reduced.

>>12377956
oh yes, lets create giant mining centralization, like bitmain for bitcoin, because that worked out real well and because bch didn't fuck up btc real good. but you know what, this time, it's really going to be different.

>>12376959
yeah just ignore the column to the right.

>>12378914

pls no, fuckin search for yourself: rent monero hashrate, cleannet whitenet darknet wherever you want and look at the prices per mhs.

Buy up the available amount, and done.

The list from OP is created from a script that parse several rent marketplaces and avg out the offered mhs / price and adds it up to the current pool hashrate.

>>12378927
This pic has no explanation either. However, asuming that you can rent that much hashpower >375 mhash/s that cheap, than why dont you do it and attack the xmr network into the ground. Please?

>>12376959
shut up and do it then faggot

>>12376959
durrrrrr

Another funny FUD thead by a (((random guy))) on the interwebs.

>>12377004
bch is shit and everyone but bcash cultists knows it

>>12379005
you show a big lack of intelligence, understanding and careful thoughts.

bc. by attacking several coins you hurt the general thoughts and acceptance from businesses about crypto in the public.

There is nothing positive about it.

>>12379108
profit-oriented people don't care

>>12379108
>by attacking several coins you hurt the general thoughts and acceptance from businesses about crypto in the public.
Lol, thats not how the world works. And you say that I have a
>big lack of intelligence, understanding and careful thoughts.
God, please, I have no words anymore.

>>12379108
you are unbelievably naive.

>>12379104
Funny how everyone so butthurt about "bcash cultists" doesn't get their panties in a wad about any other SHA256 fork of the bitcoin ledger. SAD

>>12379104
>cultists
Cultists would mean people who only believe in 1 coin. Only corecucks are mostly cultists, I cashed out most my shit because I've been here long enough to recognize a bubble (not at ATH, I went out at 5k-10k) and I'm keeping a healthy stack of LINK (until mainnet), ZIL (until mainnet), Universa, Ether, BTC and I'm currently mining grin. So at least say "bcash supporters".
>everyone but bcash supporters knows it
Everyone but early adopters knows it, ok faggot who cares. We haven't been enlightened by the same propaganda you're reading, we're only basing our opinions on actual knowledge and experience in this space, how pathetic, kek.

>>12379231
That's just bait, bro.

>>12379243
>currently mining grin
meant to say BEAM, although I am switching to Grin when it launches

>>12379243
>currently mining grin
On the test net, I suppose?

>>12379250
Sure it's bait but we're not really responding to HIM, we're responding for the thousands of silent readers who'll see that corecucks are faggots and cash supporters are reasonable.

>>12379005
Nobody here is intelligent enough to attempt a double-spend 51% attack. If I had the resources I'd take out a big fat short on XMR and do it myself

>>12377043
You'd see two of the same key images in the key image database. Nodes would refuse to propagate the TX so it'd be pretty obvious, but a successful double spend would be included in the block anyways due to the 51% attack chain reorg. Once people realize what happened the chain would likely split, similar to the ETH DAO fork.

>>12379274
>Nobody here is intelligent enough to attempt a double-spend 51% attack. If I had the resources I'd take out a big fat short on XMR and do it myself
I tell you what, friendo, there are people out there who are intelligent and whealthy enough. They dont do it, because it is not possible.

>>12379318
I can code you some double-spending node software for $5000 and there's plenty of pajeets who'd gladly offer you the same for $1000. It's remarkably simple actually.
But BCH was attacked with hundreds of millions of dollars and persisted, and Monero, while less secure, is still at least 10 times more expensive to attack than shown on the website. Realistically more like 100 times more expensive.

>>12379388
Yes, I meant executing the double spending is not possible on xmr and bch.

>>12379388
BCH is deceptive because ABC has checkpointing and large BTC miners like bitmain will switch to protect it when they detect a reorg. SV is likely 51% attackable and XMR is too as long as you can find the compute power. It's hard to actually calculate the cost because nicehash doesnt have enough hashpower so you'd have to find another vendor to let you rent their machines. It's probably not 10x as expensive.

>>12379185

well you fucked it up again, by not understanding it.

I know that its not the wy how the worl works.

I gave you THIS ANSWER BC. YOU ASKED ME, why I am NOT doing it.
and that was my answer. nothing to do with the world

>>12377004
btrash and their cult leader are the reason that crypto crashed
every time it was going up here comes Roger Ver to fuck it up and stall it out, til it finally broke.
"Bitcoin Jesus" what a fucking joke
fuck that guy and fuck everybody who believes he's anything but a retard

>>12379685

>>12379831
>beeetcoin caaaaaaaaaaash

>>12379597
>I know that its not the wy how the worl works.
>I gave you THIS ANSWER BC. YOU ASKED ME, why I am NOT doing it.
>and that was my answer. nothing to do with the world

This makes zero sense.

Look here brainlets, big blocks are the future. Bch will have a jump start on big block technologies like graphene, etc. Can you imagine actually using btc with 1mb block size for a currency? Can you imagine using LN at all? Look at these dummies, they couldn't scale a 2ft wall

Yeah, but it looks like nicehash only has 2% and 8% of the needed hashrate?

>>12380269
This maze was harder than I expected. Post more.

>>12380891

>>12379272
BCASH

How much does it cost to 51% attack IOTA?

>>12381252
Whatever it costs to hire thugs to extract the password to the coordinator from sergey