/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>12310529
Because they're poor and inept.

>>12310529
>Boomers got the opportunities
>Gen X got the table scraps
>Millenials got promises that turned to disappointment
>Zoomers got shit and chose to revel in it.

>>12310540
>muh just world fallacy
imagine being this deluded

>>12310529
Immigration.

>>12310529
I've found the exact opposite. What the fuck are you talking about?

Economic illiteracy it at an all-time high.

>>12310529
What does communism mean to you? I've never met a communist under 20 personally. In fact I dont think I've ever met a communist in real life.

>>12310529
it's only the non white zoomers and yes it is a jewish contrivance

>>12310529

i'm a zoomer and i've never noticed this. i don't think it's happening.

>>12310585
Get off my internet stupid poorfag.

>>12310586
I'm inclined to think this could be the right answer.

>>12310590
you are in for a rude awakening... step outside your social circle

>>12310529
tldr: Material Conditions
do you really expect that the old maxims of capitalism can endure no matter how many chinese or indian slaves we put to work or the fact that the "ethical" duty of the c-executives is to make as much money as possible for their shareholders when as put into concrete terms, means that they move production to a country that gives no shits about working people for 14+ hours a day without meal or bathroom breaks? This is by no means a comprehensive litany that can serve as a complete grievance of why people have so much disaffection but this should encourage you to at least look beyond the moral realm when considering why people are aligning themselves in such ways. Look towards other factors like economic factors and see how their self-interest align with the proposed solutions. We have already seen this movement play itself out 100 years ago which culminated into the creation of the USSR. We are entering similar conditions again which people are reacting against which could possibly lead to massive violence against the status quo.

they think its the only way they'll be able to have anything. truth is, the people with power and that will continue to hold it will never align with their ideals, so they'll always just be circlejerking amongst other equally poor or powerless people, while everybody else ends up making it.

>>12310602
Communism is when poorfags can afford healthcare. They should just die like nature intended.

>>12310634
this would be fine if we weren't experiencing a huge shitskin problem though. at some point its necessary for the future of humanity to keep the first world going, even if it means supporting worthless people (providing they're white anyway).

>>12310623
I agree with Anon. Most of Gen Z is highly conservative. You must live near a major city.

>>12310529
Kids from privileged background are born with entitlement mentality. When they don't get what they want, they turn to communism to cope with their incompetence.

>>12310623
Step outside yours... Most people, all races, genders and ages hate leftyfag ideals

>>12310634
>>Communism is when poorfags can afford healthcare. They should just die like nature intended.
Nature is not limited to being a mirror of a human mind. People have some sort of agency which expands to a sort dominion in how they live.

>>12310643
>1985
>the dissident russian
>takes the russian metro
>gets his free food and high education to compaling about communism

Same reason for any Communist ideals.
By leveling the playing field you never have to accept that you're inferior and that you have hard work to do.

>>12310529
Because of just how autistic people like peterson are.

>>12310529
because capitalism is for gay old faggots
Read some real communist theory and stop being a youtube-Intelectual

>>12310585
>communism can create a just world
>muh just world fallacy

>tfw pol psyops is too obvious

>>12310634

What if they steal your shit and kill you instead? Just like nature intended right? It's just darwinism bro...

>>12310675
>The just-world hypothesis or just-world fallacy is the cognitive bias (or assumption) that a person's actions are inherently inclined to bring morally fair and fitting consequences to that person, to the end of all noble actions being eventually rewarded and all evil actions eventually punished.
So if capitalism brings all that is good and communism brings pure evil, then can we say that this also falls within this description?

>>12310694

No one seriously argues that Capitalism brings only good/evil and communism brings only good/evil. No system involving humans is perfect

>>12310692
its difficult for poor people to kill anybody important when armies, private security, and increasingly autonomous warfare is available.

>>12310662
that logic really doesn't capture how human psychology deals with inferiority. With a level playing field you have no excuse for your inferiority and it becomes more dangerous as the subsequent rage becomes self destructive and thus dangerous to everyone. It is precisely with an uneven playing that inferiority is easiest to rationalize, the easiest to deal with psychologically. If capitalism was truly a meritocracy it would have been destroyed in a matter of months.

>>12310675
There is no just world, not communism or any system. A system is not about perfect justice, it's about who it works for and how.

>>12310637
>>12310654
>>12310692
Spoken like true poorfags. What are you even doing on my board?

because this time it'll be REAL communism

>>12310697
>>No one seriously argues that Capitalism brings only good/evil and communism brings only good/evil. No system involving humans is perfect
It isn't the argument that many communists make themselves. Why are we bringing up moralism when Marxist think that reasoning about it is playing by someone else's game?

>>12310705
>>Spoken like true poorfags. What are you even doing on my board?
Just asking questions.

>>12310655
>free
You have to work for it
>high education
No first worlders goes to Russia for their education

>>12310701
They want to level the playing field of results, not opportunity. That's evident in every antifa riot.

>>12310705
>he thinks he owns the board

>>12310729
The average russian was better educated than the average american throughout the later post-war period.

>>12310735
Antifa are mostly anarcho-liberals, that they care more about redistribution of wealth, utopian demands about state abolition and reactionary flag-waving instead of expropriation of the means of production and class warfare is exactly the problem.

But, so long as we're talking about ideology, neither equality of ouctomes nor opportunity has ever existed nor ever will. These have always just been bland talking points and navel gazing.

>>12310699

You aren't important?

>>12310697

I mean, they kinda do. Both sides. Both sides are at about the same level of retardation of course.

>>12310705

Lol, gl in life Mr. Temporarily Embarrased Millionaire.

>>12310767
>But, so long as we're talking about ideology, neither equality of ouctomes nor opportunity has ever existed nor ever will.

What are communists fighting for then?

>>12310840
Communists are fighting for more free time, for democratic coordination of production, for workers to have more of a say in the workplace, for ecological sustainability and for basic necessities to be decommodified. In short, for mass domination of politics, ideology, and the economy.

>>12310767
>Russians were better educated!!!
t. some retarded Russians. They were taught how to love The Party, not how to do anything.

>expropriation
This meme again. You mean theft just say theft. You never built anything it is not yours, when you take it some other commie is justified taking it from you.

>>12310840
>>What are communists fighting for then?
Bourgeoisie defenestration.

>>12310858
It's going to result in monopolies one way or the other with the difference being mobs of people being pitted against each other (my collective vs your collective), not that different than the current conditions (my party vs your party).

Ecological sustainability? Nah, that's not going to work. Who's going to enforce the environmental rules?

I only see the basic necessities part working out.

>>12310868
>t. some retarded Russians. They were taught how to love The Party, not how to do anything.
The average russian was far more familiar with high literature than your average american. At the highest levels of academia Russian scientists, economists, and mathematicians were among the best in the world.

>You mean theft just say theft. You never built anything it is not yours, when you take it some other commie is justified taking it from you.
We're not taking anyone's personal property, rather we are removing from the capitalist class the titles that allow them control over the means of production, the private property that allows them to coordinate our economy. All these things, the workers built.

>>12310897
That it's not that different in terms of collective action is hardly a knock against communism. It means such collective action is perfectly feasible.

>Who's going to enforce the environmental rules?
First of all, I'm not anarchist, so I'd be perfectly happy if a state did it. Secondly, when people coordinate production themselves it's a simple matter of investing in green industries and technologies.

>>12310840
>What are communists fighting for then?

making mommy and daddy angry

>>12310529
Massive amounts of student debt, a life of minimum wage jobs, gig economy, quality of living has gone done, and people are starting to see that the american dream is no longer attainable in the current boomers rule everything environment. It's no wonder zoomers are turning to communism in masse but what they don't understand is that just like how capitalism didn't solve their problems, so to will communism fail them.

>>12310905
>At the highest levels of academia Russian scientists, economists, and mathematicians were among the best in the world.

They purged a lot of academics.

>>12310905
>We're not taking anyone's personal property

Yes you are. Property is what you personally own. If I purchased a factory with my savings and you take it away, then you're taking away private property.

>>12310934
>They purged a lot of academics.
Yes they did, and they were worse off for it. But they still trained brilliant minds.

>Property is what you personally own. If I purchased a factory with my savings and you take it away, then you're taking away private property.
That's a deep perversion of terms to call a factory personal property. You're not using it personally, you're not operating all those machines with your own two hands. You don't even need to visit it in person so long as your name's on the deed. What you're describing is how you would own it /privately/. It works for your /private/ interest, even though it is not used by you in person.

>>12310965
You're making up all these rules of how a factory should be operated. There's no requirement that a factory needs to be operated by a certain amount of people or that it needs to be of a certain size or that you must hire people. Automation is a thing now. What if the factory is set up in such a way that I can run the factory myself?

>>12310965
cont'd

How does shipping and handling work for a collective factory?

The entire economy is a Ponzi scheme. Those who come early and invest make compound interest.
E.g. House ownership
Rent
Stocks

These generate wealth over time
This is the reason that every civilisation eventually collapses


Many young people, particularly immigrants have no generational wealth therefore they have to work harder than the people who came before them (boomers and b4 (old money)) and for that work, they accrue less capital.
Communism is a reset switch.
It purges the early investors in the capitalist Ponzi scheme and puts most people on a more similar playing field.
It is a way for people who's ancestors were selfish and short sighted so left their descendants with nothing . To strike back.
The Apple does not fall far from the tree.
The late adopters eventually realise that doing all that work for nothing is not worth it
Similar to buying Bitcoin at 10,000 rather than 10 dollars

>>12310985
I'm not making up any such rules. what I'm observing is that private property law permits someone to say "this factory is mine" without having any other direct affiliation to it, in running it or working at it. If you are running a factory yourself, congratulations, you are also taking on the role of a manager, a role that is distinct from your status as the factory's owner, since it could be realistically be taken on by anyone, including someone you delegated the work to. In communism, its possible you could remain the manager, and be employed in that capacity, without remaining the owner.

The reason for this is because there's another party involved here: the consumer. The logic of exchange, originally, was that of a tradesman directly producing and handing over to a customer some commodity they wanted for some other other commodity the tradesman wanted. This has broken down under modern capitalism. The capitalist, besides not producing the commodity themselves, also doesn't exchange with a single customer at a time. Rather, he produces for society as a whole. Since what is involved is no longer two people's private interest, but society's interest as a whole, it is logical that society have the power to coordinate the production that's supposed to meet its needs, instead of having production for all of society be determined by done according to what profits a single private individual.

>>12310985
>>You're making up all these rules of how a factory should be operated
So are you right?

>>12310606
That’s cuz ur a shutin. It’s happening

>>12311033
No I'm not. If you're adding arbitrary limits and restrictions, then you're the one creating rules.

>>12310529
No idea, but might be a bit related to general boredom with the current state of things. I'm considering being communist this year - it was fun trolling the Left & kikes, but the Right are just getting boring now. /pol/ has become a dumpster fire, the same way crypto needs the bear to cleanse it, we need communism to sweep the board clear of cancerous Q-larping flerfers and shit. Then we can go back to posting NeetSoc memes and shit. It's the circle of life. I also want to shill cryptos on leftypol, let em understand how smart contracts could be used to institute full communism.

>>12311032
Except that he's ideally expended a bunch of (private) resources to acquire the factory, equip it etc. How does that mean he still doesn't own it? Far as I can tell, all communism is doing is shifting the ownership to some abstract group identity like "the people", which really means "the ruling party members". I mean, if all the employees got together and bought it, then fine, now they own it. But there's way more to the whole process than just labor, there's resources like land as well, expertise, R&D etc.

>>12311032
You keep moving goalposts. So it's not the factory workers but the consumers who should own the means of production now?

>>12310529
inevitable result of the current capitalistic system

>>12310529
inferior races and genders are mad at white men, but their IQ is so low they can never win this war.

>>12310529
I was born in 97 so I am technically a Zommer but kinda feel like more of an in between millenials and gen z. From what I have observed is that the commies tend to be only a few years older than me in their mid twenties and early thirties. Those younger than me in their mid teens and very early twenties seem to be something entirely unseen before. Their outlook on like is like if you mixed Andrew Jackson and Adolf Hitler. They know they’re being screwed by the banks and the (((elite))) so they are vehemently anti debt and very much in favor of self reliance. It’s gonna be interesting g to see what happens as the rest of my generation comes of age. Many of them are very conservative and some are even borderline fascist.

>>12311876
zoomers know about (((them)))?

>>12310540
So yeah, the working class poor deserve to be treated like crap by the bankers! Yeah! by the amazons and the walmarts!
Fuck the working americans fuck america. Let the companies destroy it! yeahhh!!!
You fuck traitor idiot.
>>12310529
Because some woke up realised that trump is a boomer, that stands for boomer bullshit. They realize that boomers have manipulated them into voting for someone who doesnt give a shit about them.

>>12311893
They are so close. They know the system is fucked and that it’s controlled by a very small and powerful group. All they need is a little push and they’ll be goose stepping down Pennsylvania Ave. Most of them already think the Nazis are cool.

>>12310692
Poor=weak
How the fuck you gonna kill anybody without strength or training, both of which benefit greatly from money. Most commies I've seen fold like a napkin as soon as the authorities or any kind of resistance at all show up.

>>12310914
who is going to force asia into it?
are you going to bomb china because they keep releasing plastic on the ocean?

I mean used to think communism was great when i was 14 then went hardcore nazi then facisit then last, i relised that a mix of all is good.

I relised this when i was 18, currently 19.

But ya the people i meet that are civilist, and most zoomers avoid politics and gay shit like that, currently me included.

>>12310644
Its actually a good idea to openly dislike libtards from a financial point of view. Imagine if a game company openly came out against that kind of shit. It would probably gain them a ton of money / recognition right out of the gate.

Zoomers are sick of this shit for sure. Especially gamers.

>>12311876
I thought zoomers only cared about fortnite and vaping

>>12310675
holy shit, you really have no clue how dumb your comment was do you?

>>12310678
I can assure you there are plenty of people outside of 4chin that have taken to communist ideas.

>>12312087
>Not being a political know it all when you are 13- 16 years old
>Not being a anarchist when you are 16-18 years old
>Not being a liberal without even knowing what that means when you are 18-21
>Not being a literal nazi when you are 21-24 years old
>Not being politically apathetic for the rest of your life

Do you even politics?

>>12310529
probably because they never know first hand how shit it is.

>>12310529
>why do some people believe one thing and other people believe other things
droolingbrainlet.jpg

truth is it's all a matter of scale. communism works best at the family scale. ideally: everybody contributes as they can and everyone receives equally decisions are referred to the one that got the expertise.

now when you try this shit with people who are not related by blood, larger than a small group problems get heavier and heavier. if you get the scope big enough all you are left with is problems.

capitalism is the opposite. it doesn't really work very well in a family. i mean sure it looks like it works but will be a horrible experience. on the other hand it scales extremely well. the larger the population of participants the better it works.

in between the two some form of socialism at tribal levels and population center levels work best.

>>12310529
>if someone doesn't want to slave away for Mr. Goldberg and want endless mass immigration and wants to put a sense of morals above money they're a communist
Boomers, everyone

>>12310590
This, Zoomers are NatSoc, Millennials partly NatSoc, mostly Commiie. Boomers and Gen Z are the full blown commie generations.

>>12313266
This actually sounds breddy legit to be honest.

>>12310662

Based and redpilled.

Anybody that thinks otherwise is just coping.

>>12310529
they’re not...

>>12310868

Don't bother, gommie faggot is the dumbest 105 IQ person you will ever argue with. He has thoroughly convinced himself that what he is shilling is "true communism", and no amount of picking apart his utterly flawed reasoning will have even 1 iota of impact.

>>12310592
So is literacy apparently.

>>12313542
i'm not sure people are getting more stupid and uneducated. it's more like stupid uneducated people are now proudly proclaiming their thoughts and ideas as opposed to be ashamed of their shortcomings.

tldr retards are coming out of the woodwork.

>>12312318
>Its actually a good idea to openly dislike libtards from a financial point of view
Literally this. One of the best current-day examples is to look what's happening with California

>>12312318
and that is how the market takes care of it all. everyone votes with their wallet every day in the end.

>>12310634
Oh sorry you don't get to live in a 1st world country you worked and contributed your whole live towards that your family for generations built
10,000 sick Guatemalans showed up at the border so we need to take from you and your society while raising tax because you're an evil white male capitalist

>>12310697
This is fair
Most people are good and just want what's right
Any idiot can be sold on either idea

My opinion is the least amount of decisions is best
Communism opens up entire economies to be corrupted while the free market self corrects inefficiencies
It's hard to scale a any system in a world economy because exploitation is out of sight out of mind but when you give up the chance to change things under communism you fail every time

Because they're special snowflakes that can't be competitive in the global markets and can't stand that shitskins from third world countries will take part of their wealth because they're simply just more efficient.

>>12314145
>Communism opens up entire economies to be corrupted while the free market self corrects inefficiencies
that is what it boils down to in the end.
capitalism works. it may not be perfect. especially when you try to balance long term viability to short term profitability. but it fucking works. because if you put aside everything people participating in capitalism are expected only to follow their self interest. and that is a pretty reliable incentive.

>>12310701
>With a level playing field you have no excuse

You really, really underestimate people's ability to play victim and create excuses when things don't go their way

>>12311386
Obviously the factory owner does currently own the factory under capitalism, but this fact doesn't justify it when that ownership leads to irrational coordination and inefficiency.

Communist collective ownership doesn't have to be abstract leading to party control. Many forms are possible, and the lack of legitimate communist parties in the 21st century means it likely won't be a party. Sovereign wealth funds with democratic referendums, worker or consumer owned cooperatives, government corporations, all these things are plausible forms.

Regardless, expertise and R&D are also done by workers, and the biggest R&D isn't even done by private capitalists but by universities and government agencies.

>>12311441
I never made any such reductionist argument about who should own the means of production via some simple formula, all I've said is that capitalists should not.

>>12312073
Chinese people would rather not live in smog soup if they had a choice in the matter.

>>12314286
this, nobody perceives any playing field level. they will always have excuses and someone to blame.

>>12314371
>capitalists should not
that's the most idiotic thing i ever heard.
when the capitalist invests into a business or purchases means of production he takes on incredible risks. something the workers are not expected to do.

just imagine for a second you are kinda broke and looking for a job but every company expects you to purchase a share of the company to hire you. you don't know if this recent startup is gonna make it you have no idea if the company will be valued fairly by the market you have no idea it will be around 3 years in the future all you know is the debt and bonds get paid first if it goes down and you lose everything all your money and employment and chance to ever get employed again if it goes belly up which a lot of business do.

it would be a nightmare. i mean sure if they can employees should own a piece of the business. that's a very good thing. but forcing a system like that on them... it's idiotic.

>>12314286
>>12314382
The inverse is also true, psychologically, successful people will rationalize every accomplishment down to their innate talent and skill.

You want to get to the "truth" of the matter, you have to realize the randomness, the barriers that exist. As Machiavelli put it, it comes down to both virtu and fortuna. Skill and luck. Some people are more lucky than skillful, or vise versa, some people have neither.

>>12310623
irony: the post

>>12314449
>>psychologically, successful people will rationalize every accomplishment down to their innate talent and skill.
That is, psychologically, absolute half truth.
People generally can be decided in how they perceive their success and failure. Some perceive both as an internal outcome that comes from within them and some perceive it as an external influence. You have roughly 50% of people who perceive their success and their failures as their fault or coming from them and 50% that perceive both as a result of external forces.
And all of this is regardless of their economical standing.
How come people like Bill Gates advocate for communism? Because they think that their success was an accident - came from the external, rather then the internal influence. If someone says- I got rich because I was lucky, they think that the success is external, same with people who think that they are broke because of bad luck.
Read psychology 101 and you will see countless experiments that show that correlation.
I would say that people supporting communism are more inclined to think that the succes is an external and not internal value, but I can't find any research on this.

>>12314445
The LLC already means that the state incredibly subsidizes the risk for capitalists, for one. Two, the whole point is to remove market valuations as a primary method of coordinating investment. Three, cooperative enterprises do take on these risks, and the employees are better off for it since it doesn't mean a capitalist will liquidate everything when the going gets tough. Coops generally last longer and are more stable employment.

>>12310697
Capitalism is not a system, it's what happens when humans reject violence.

>>12314274
Except we've already seen this isn't true. The 2008 bailouts goes to show that capitalism cannot survive without incredibly centralized institutions that are incapable of using hard budgets as effective methods of discipline.

>>12314523
L O L

>>12313513
I don't have any ideal system or picture to sell anon, there is no single form that is "true communism" though I can offer some hypotheticals, what I'm interested in is where economic development takes us.

>>12314506
>The LLC already means that the state incredibly subsidizes the risk for capitalists, for one
not really, the capital will be gone it's their other wealth that is protected to a degree.
>the whole point is to remove market valuations as a primary method of coordinating investment
there is no logic behind that, market valuation is a function of other things that give value to business, you want to remove the end result of an equation.
>cooperative enterprises do take on these risks
indeed
>and the employees are better off
well it's easy to prove that's a generally false statement. since everybody is allowed to follow his self interest if people were better off in these more people would choose this form of employment. there is a strong survivors bias here. sure if they make it they are better off if not they lose everything. that's how the game is.
>Coops generally last longer and are more stable employment.
again there is probably 99 failed attempts to every successful one. but i'm sure 90+. nobody talks about the people that risked everything gave everything and were left on the sidewalk.

so yeah i bet everyone would love to own a piece of the already successful business he works in preferably for free. but they don't deserve to.

>>12314551
>The 2008 bailouts
in a capitalist system there would be no bailouts tho. bad business gets rekt. that is how the market works out inefficiency.

>>12310529
>zoomers
Zoomers are literally the most redpilled and based. It's millennials who are commies.

look at the modern state of wagecuckery, id be a communist too if i didnt know (((who))) was behind all of this

>>12314506
How do commies deal with the fact that the distinction between personal property and private property is vanishing with things like Uber or Airbnb, where I can use my personal property as a mean of production. If I rent my house through Airbnb and go stay with my mother meanwhile, my house stops being personal property? What if I use the hard drive of my pc to offer cloud storage for someone else, does my pc stops being personal property?

>>12314551
The only reason the bailouts happened is because the government has a monopoly over money production, in a free market economy nobody would have a monopoly over anything, you won't solve that by creating more monopolies, that's dumb as fuck.

>>12314573
This.
People who start businesses risk everything and often have to go through a few failed ones to get to the successful one and that successful one, often never happens. Why should worker who do not take the risk have any rights to a business? Are they sharing the risk? Nope. Are they willing to work for free for years just so the business works? Nope. Business owner very often work for less than the people that they employ because they reinvest the money into the company and workers are part of that reinvestment, not partners. They aren't partners because they don't share the risks and are very quick to point that out when their paycheck is late.
I'm on my 3rd business and decided not to hire anyone this time for as long as I can, the responsibility of paying workers adds a shit ton of stress to already stressful situation. So unless I'm sure I will suceed I will outsource the work to freelancers for as long as I can and then maybe hire someone.

because they have few opportunities and society is falling apart. this is why both communism and ethnofascism has gotten popular lately.

the more people feel like society is wrong, the farther away from the current system they go to look for answers to a society in which they don't feel like they have any future.

same happening in germany pre nazi germany. both commies and nazis got popular under the shitty post-ww1 regime that failed its people, and then eventually the nazis managed to get the upper hand.

>>12310557
Correct

>>12314573
>not really, the capital will be gone it's their other wealth that is protected to a degree.
If the state wasn't there, there's no reason their entire net worth wouldn't be on the table for creditors in ancapistan.

>market valuation is a function of other things that give value to business, you want to remove the end result of an equation.
Market valuation leads to irrational risk taking in a situation of a secular falling or stagnating rate of profit.

>since everybody is allowed to follow his self interest if people were better off in these more people would choose this form of employment. there is a strong survivors bias here. sure if they make it they are better off if not they lose everything.
Most people don't have the capital or wealth in the first place to form a worker coop, and banks are more reluctant to loan to them because they are less familiar with them.

>but they don't deserve to.
This isn't a question of deserving, though in most cases capitalists who throw their money into a fund have no more right to a company than the people who actually work there. It's a question of necessity. Capitalist coordination is leading towards more risk taking and crisis, it is leading to longer hours and more exploitation, and it's leading to ecological collapse.

>>12310557
Add to this technologies removing 30% of jobs while not creating new opportunities over the next 15 years and the likelihood of ww3 erupting and you basically get apathy towards life

>>12314625
If you were to expropriate Uber or Airbnb you wouldn't expropriate the cars of all the drivers, you'd expropriate the proprietary software that coordinates this whole thing that they're using to extract rent out of the rest of us.

>>12314667
The bailouts happened because of quite natural consolidation in banking, because these giant firms are essential to our financial system, and our financial system is essential to our capitalists system.

Markets always lead towards consolidation as winners and loosers appear, indeed these massive businesses are usually quite efficient, they cut down on administrative cost and have economies of scale. But the rest of us can't get the benefits of that efficiency because of the pricing that comes from their market power.

>>12314716
Based and logicpilled.

Dissent with the current system is usually handled through the usual channels of grievance and redress, eg, voting, grassroots movements, lawsuits, etc. Nobody has any faith in these channels of redress anymore. So they have stopped even pretending to interact with the current model in good faith and have gone off to the farthest ideological reaches to find a new system of organization/governance that is as dissimilar to the current model as possible. Hence the new fascination with communism/socialism/fascist left and with hard right/natsoc/nrx, on their respective political poles. The percentage of people who still think the current model (whatever you would call it) is workable with a few patches and bandaids is probably single-digits.

Shaft the lower classes and younger generations economically for long enough and this is the inevitable result.

>>12314828
Uber and Airbnb will be dApps sonner than you know, they are extremely inefficient as private companies. The thing that you don't understand is that if you take away the incentive for those people to use their personal properties to offer a service you end up with one of two scenarios. 1- You decrease the amount of services available to them, which means you make them poorer, or 2- You have to create new private property to keep offering that service, which means you not only let all those personal cars sitting idle for no reason, but you also create lots of waste and contamination by making all those new cars that wouldn't even be needed otherwise.

This is a fact communism would lead to insane waste and ecological collapse for that single reason. Imagine how many cars would have had to be made to offer the same services that uber cars already offer with cars that were sitting idle?

Bankers can't buy favors politicians can't sell, you're extremely dumb if you think giving more power to the government will reduce corruption and playing favourites. Most inequality we have today is because of government intervention not because of the free markets, if it were just because of free markets production would have shifted entirely to the third world and workers in first world countries wouldn't be making 10 times more than their counterparts in the third world.

I thought you were smart but you're actually dumb as fuck, don't know why it surprises me though since you have to be extremely stupid to be a communist.

>>12310529
>bitcoin is trash
>gets booted out of patreon
>gib me bitcoin dumb goyim!

>>12310529
Imagine, working all fucking 40+ year in the factory or building site or government institution.
Suddenly generation that supposedly should be working and making you a pension, chooses to sit at home on benefits, choose management or just become journalists.
And then when you tell em to go to work, they scream into your eyes some bullshit lgbtqrtsh (and other 35 genders) nonsense, call you racist and then goes back to check her iphone, maybe there is new picture keisha posted.
What do you do?
Take a nearest plank or metal rod and smack the shit out of that person.

>>12310529
18 yo zoomer here. Are you guys NEETs or just socially autistic? 90% of my generation has right wing views on economy, both liberal and conservative. Maybe a few 900 IQ centrists. Of course I've met a few leftist dudes here and there, but even then they fucking hate the common retarded shit you can find on twitter.

>>12314932
The communist solution is making Uber and Airbnb based on opensource software, and increasing the investment in housing and public transportation so people don't have to resort to renting out their personal cars and apartments.

And btw, Uber is already generating incredible waste by having people who'd ordinarily be walking paying other people to drive around the block until they need a ride.

You're a fool if you think our financial system is only the way it is because of bankers buying politicians. You go back to the congressional hearings on financial deregulation in the 80s what was the conversation going on: globalization and extremely complicated financial instruments were on the rise regardless of what the government did, and they needed to act to get any sense of control and revenue with it.

>Most inequality we have today is because of government intervention not because of the free markets, if it were just because of free markets production would have shifted entirely to the third world and workers in first world countries wouldn't be making 10 times more than their counterparts in the third world.
Not really, plenty of third world countries have massive FDI and get used for cheap labor. It's only the third world countries with strong governments that are capable of industrializing because they are able to implement industrial policy. The free market, left to it's own devices, would only vastly increase inequality /even/ as it employs more people in the third world. This is a widely acknowledged phenomena, that the more a country lags behind in terms of development, the more government intervention is required for it to catch up.

>>12314612
>Zoomers are literally the most redpilled and based. It's millennials who are commies.

millenials had to enter the workforce, which made them realize capitalism is a scam

>>12315260
They got far more compensation for the same work than current gen does. Boomer pieces of shit. Could have a low tier job and still get a house (and pay it off in some years instead of 30 to infinity) and support a stay at home wife.

Didn't have to pay insane amounts for education, and didn't need a symbolic education in order to get hired. People were actually trained at work.

>>12310529
I'm a zoomer communist neet who wants you to pay more taxes for my neetbucks, keep up the good work wageslaves.

>>12315276
>18 yo zoomer
>90% of my generation has right wing views on economy
>18 yo

yeah, you're will figure it out when you need to become a wageslave

>>12314612
That is a good point. With the advent of redpill knowledge on the internet accessible to anyone, even beta males know what's going on.
It's mostly the college-age fucks who are perpetrating this shit.

>>12315365
>give monopoly over money creation to politicians and bankers, let government institutions control unilaterally interest rates so big banks can now before everyone else when rates will be changed

bUt tHe iNeQuaLiTy iS bEcAuSe oF tHe fReE mArKeT

>>12315419
I live in a socialist shithole. I'll kindly tell you to fuck off. I'd rather die with a stable wagecuck job in a capitalist than sucking red cock.

>>12315365
>and increasing the investment in housing and public transportation

The communist solution is waste and authoritarianism as always got it. I'm so glad your ideology is dying and will never come back..

>>12311011
Aptly put

>>12315496
Where do you think inequality comes from anon? The richest people in the world aren't politicians and bankers, though they can sure make a lot of money from the rent that comes with their positions. The richest people are owners of companies, of capital. These are the people who have wealth equivalent to the entirety of bottom 50%, ect.

If you're mad that interests rates are kept low, they'd probably be low naturally as well. The sheer level of accumulation means there's a surplus of loanable funds anyway.

>>12315543
No ideology is more on the decline than liberalism in all its forms.

>>12315562
>Where do you think inequality comes from anon?
From lack of competition. Because large corporations can lobby for government regulations that their competitors can't comply with leaving them with monopolies. That's why Amazon is pushing for higher minimum wages because they know their competitors will feel thr pressure way more than them, and they can always resort to capital markets and get extremely low interest rates because they're close to the big banks and the federal reserve, which their competitors can't.

>No ideology is more on the decline than liberalism in all its forms.

Yeah that's why one billion chinese raised out of poverty in the last 30 years, thanks to foreign investments and foreign consumers, that means thanks to free trade. But somehow I have to believe that thr free market is failing because some baristas in Seattle can make $15 an hour to rent a $3k apartment on their own...

>>12315398

They had it good but considering the state of the world then and now it's not surprising that our collective prospects are lower, at least in the traditional modes. When all of your peer countries are devastated after a world war and developing nations are barely out of their peasant/nomad stage, you're going to have an easy time. Now everything is far more developed and viable as competition, which was unavoidable regardless of boomer greed. They were born with gold spoons in their mouths while we have to content ourselves with silver, though you could argue it's a platinum one if you have wits enough to understand crypto. There's a lot of whinging about how boomers had to do was buy property in a non-Detroit tier area to be set, but the next generations will probably say the same about us only having to buy bitcoin before 2025 or 2030. The opportunities are there if you're cognizant enough to get out from under the current systems, as the statists and retarded commies will make it hell for anyone dumb enough to stick around and pay for their massive entitlements as their monetary balloon deflates. Just riding the rails on the college track isn't going to work like it did for the boomers, conduct yourself accordingly.

>>12312573
I think at their core zoomers just want to be left alone. The problem is that no one will leave them alone. They see what the boomers and (((they))) did to this countries, although like I said they are only about two steps from actually naming (((them))). They know that Hollywood, the media and their schools are trying to brainwash them. Hell the government is even trying to take away their vape. They know the system is rigged and that they will never have it as good as their grandparents and parents. So they turn to Fascism because it has more teeth than libertarianism.

>>12310675
Communism does create a just world. Everyone has equal amounts of nothing.

>>12315659
>Because large corporations can lobby for government regulations that their competitors can't comply with leaving them with monopolies.
As somehow who has experience with how govt regulation is enforced let me tell you, no lobby is more powerful in washington than small businesses. So many exemptions and tax breaks are facilitated to keep them afloat and any change that happens must be done to benefit them in some way, at least rhetorically.

Amazon accepted a higher minimum wage only after it's workers agitated and organized for higher wages themselves. Of course now that they are paying higher wages they don't want competitors to be paying lower wages and possibly greater profits.

>one billion chinese raised out of poverty in the last 30 years
>result of the free market

>>12310529
Because the world is absolute shit again and there isn't anywhere that you can go that doesn't have tyrannically oppressive governments with huge tax burdens

zoomers are not turning communist. fuck off with your commie shilling

Because the economy sucks for young people or really anyone under 45 that wasn't born rich.

>>12310529
helicopter parenting
Zoomers in their 20s are still firmly under the control of their parents and lack the independence of earlier generations. Why be a capitalist when your parents run every aspect of your life.

>>12310644

Their hatred of it is a meme. Zoomers are a meme and they only like anything for its memetic value. I don't think their conservative nature is genuine, more that it's played off as a joke, and if there was a true war between races they wouldn't take part so they wouldn't come off as racist.

>>12310729
You missed the point. The point is: you are free to complain to X even if you use some compounds of X.
Example: I can complain about marriage institution even if I'm married.

The younger a zoomer is the more right wing they are. The 10 to 13 year olds in my Minecraft server are redpilled as fuck.

>>12316308
>The 10 to 13 year olds in my Minecraft server are redpilled as fuck.

>>12316285
>if there was a true war between races they wouldn't take part so they wouldn't come off as racist.
just because zoomers aren't white nationalists doesn't mean they aren't conservative. A race war is not going to happen and is more of a power fantasy. Reality is going to involve some level of diversity.

>>12316308
>The 10 to 13 year olds in my Minecraft server are redpilled as fuck.
ancapballwithshades.jpg

>>12316308
actually true. they all hail pewdiepie. pewdiepie will literally be fuhrer of the 4th reich.
we're living in a meme timeline.

>>12310529
Good thing he, Dave Rubin, and our beloved Sergey Nazarov are unironically balls deep in FLO.

>>12316223
You're just being disingenuous at this point, to deny the impact free trade has had over asian countries, when the vast of majority of their production is sold in western markets, its more than stupidity, its bad faith.

You can keep lying to yourself all you want but you won't learn anything and you'll be stupider everyday, but thats par for the game with leftists.

Feels good knowing none of this commie bullshit will ever amount to more than the autistic ramblings of a tripfaggot on the internet

>>12310602
>>12310606
The shit is real, I've met far more early 20 year olds who are saying this shit and not even being edgy about it

>>12316466
Free trade, not free markets. Even Marx supported free trade. But every shithole has access to a fantastic international FDI environment, it's only countries with strong government control over their economies, like china, vietnam, and south korea which have actually been able to use it to bring people out of poverty and develop.

>>12316596
This
The Zoomers who are in college now are not as based as pol wants to believe. Lots of liberals with the glasses + beard combo.

>>12316605
Those governments couldn't do shit without the money and technology coming from the west. Had the US and Europe started with the leftist bullshit of having to protect local jobs, they'd start closing their markets like leftists wanted in the 80s and no money would've reached those emerging markets and we'd have billions more poor people in Asia. The biggest cancer in the world are leftist first worlders, if it weren't for them we'd live in a much richer world.

>>12316785
If it wasn't for leftist first worlders pushing wages up and exploitation down to a point that greatly decreased the rate of profit as it did, those third world cheap laborers wouldn't have been nearly as attractive of an investment.

>>12310529
They're leaning left but I doubt they're actual commies. IIRC there was a study recently that showed millennials liked socialism but didn't really understand it and supported free market mechanisms and entrepreneurship. Zoomers are just disenfranchised by the economy which isn't really surprising but I doubt they're full blown commies, who are actually few and far between. The actual commies, like the retard in this thread, have Marx's dick so far down their throat they refuse to see the inefficiencies of the state, understand the changing incentives of people, primarily the working class, and believe that reallocation would ever be feasible with the current plutocratic class that exists. If communism somehow gets miraculously elected democratically we'd basically be a mix of China's totalitarianism and Russia's plutocrats with the living standards of Brazil.

>>12316858
It wasn't because of them, but even if it were, which it wasn't, it still wouldn't matter the only thing that matters is how efficient you're at your job.

This reminds me of leftists taking credit for the success of the civil rights movement when in reality it only was successful because the government feared that the newly independent african countries would side with the soviet union if they felt the US discriminated against blacks too much.

As always leftists thinking they did shit when it was someone else doing it for them..