/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>12268975

Why was marx so based?

>>12268981
a Chad fucked his wife

>>12268975
Agreed with the first 3 points, the last one is just bullshit.
Conservative communism is where its at. You can't influence shit to make communism come. It comes by itself.

this utopia only exists when our population is culled pretty drastically, and only for homogenous white societies that have managed to solve the shitskin problem.

>he believes the elites are kind enough to keep his useless ass alive
>he believes they're just going to take care of him for free
>he believes the elites can't get on a private jet and flee on a moments notice
>he shills his retarded ideas on biz 20 times a day as if we care

>>12269059
If you ever meet the elite, you'll find yourself in the company of Marxists.

Do you think Gates, Musk, Soros et al are really opposed?

The current system is supported only by the bourgeoisie. In our age, the bourgeoisie owns car dealerships, chain restaurants, and builds awful strip malls and complains about paying more than minimum wage and that their macchiato took to long. They have no aesthetic sense, perform no labor, and act as leeches on society as they collect the rents.

>>12268975
Marx was a Luddite retard with zero technical vision. The fact that industry/capitalism has exhibited democratic decentralized changes is explicitly considered impossible by Marx.

>>12269128
Marx was not a Luddite. That's nonsense and you've clearly not read even a page of Marx.

You're the moron being made fun of in OP's pic

>>12269016
A mode of production works everywhere the same.

Take feudalism. It was europe mode of production but japan as well.

Capitalism itself went everywhere.

It is capitalism that create mass migration in europe with africans and in north america with the latinos. Capitalism needs cheap labor, and dump the wages. Thus mass immigration is encourage by the capitalist elite.

I am all for a white europa and i think capitalism is obsolete.

In a mode of production not centered around wages and wage cuck (proletarian), there is no need to import africans and north africans. Since the motor of a post capitalist mode of production will not be centered around profit, there is no need to increase profit by importing africans.

However, i have to say that the africans are slowing down the transition to a post capitalist society since such a society needs to be highly efficient to start. The africans are decreasing efficiency of western societies, so it'll take longer. Eventually, we'll be there, because if africans slow down the process, they don't (and can't) stop it.

With a post capitalist society, at first they will try to come even more in the west, but once we are in, they will just stay in africa because they'll have no reason to come in the west, since africa will import the post capitalist mode of production, even if it'll take half a century for them to do so.

>>12268975
> He doesn't realize that nothing happens if we don't make it happen and nobody is making the luxury robots happen

Tbh, a fully automated world is what I want to do.

I want to be the Elon musk of "nobody has to work just to live in luxury ever again" instead of the Elon musk of "let's go to the moon".

If link moons, I'm jumping on this. Otherwise, I dunno. I was saving money to quit my job and start businesses but then I went all in on crypto, like 60/40 jnt/link, and now I am going to need a couple years to save another $100k from working.

Could live somewhere cheap on that but don't want to give up my ability to live and date in a nice part of Manhattan.

Anyway, back to the drawing board...

>>12268975
>fully automated luxury communism is the future
Every time there has been a huge leap in automation, communist fags have said this. Implicit in Marx's work is that he believed he lived in the most productive paradigm that ever would be, which was obviously retarded. There will always be perceived inefficiency to overcome, so keep dreaming wannabe eschaton fags.

>>12268975

Its absolutely adorable how this imageboard turns from Ancap central to a Socialist circlejerk whenever the NEETS start losing money.

>>12269260
There will always be a desire for more and there will always be more for those who work for it.

I would like to make it possible for everyone to own their own private mechanism for producing food, clothing, shelter.

At first, just terrible quality. Suitable for giving homes to any neet willing to move to the middle of nowhere and barely survive. Just to prove it's possible to enable everyone to have the obvious things, as a starting point.

But over time, make it better. Maybe ten years later, it's not everything one neet needs to live uncomfortably, like a monk, without ever having to work, but instead advanced to the point where it can provide everything a family of three needs to survive, albeit miserably.

Ten years later, maybe a comfy but barren lifestyle. Certainly not luxury.

But eventually, luxury, if we can just make it a little bit better.

I don't think going with communism and sharing everything is the obvious way forward. Instead, I wonder, can we make everyone a capitalist? As tech advances, time is likely to become our greatest resource. Those who haven't had their jobs automated should have personal factories to let them spend their time however they like.

Utopia is not achievable. Having all your needs fulfilled is not a meaningful life. It is a hellscape devoid of purpose.

>>12268975
>a fully automated luxury communism

Automation is a meme. It only works for simple tasks in highly controlled and specific environments (like in factories or labs).

Enlighten yourself
https://youtu.be/FeNYjYA2lVg

>>12268975
Who ensures you get your "fair" share? You want some AI in charge of that? Someone will still have the ability to program it so it will still be a human in charge of ensuring you get your "fair" share and we'll see how you feel when you have to go without for the good of everyone.

Every retarded 18-23 year old in America goes through this phase, but make sure you're one of the retards that grows out of it not one of the pathetic cases who ends up a 50 year old working in a record store with no one to listen to your idealistic ramblings that have no relevance in the real world.

>>12269203
non-capitalism only works when everybody is a homogenous group of like minded individuals. you're never going to see universal basic income, or any non-capitalistic tendencies when it would mean giving your money away to people who you fundamentally do not respect as humans.

>>12269345
Having all my needs fulfilled means I can spend my time tinkering with cool shit that I would never dream of attempting while under contract with my employer.

I would love to build all kinds of cool dapps or ai tools and robot butlers etc but my employer would own it all.

Elites are waiting for only one thing:
-ai based recycling and production

When they achieve it we will be useless to them. We mined so much minerals that can be enought for them to live like kings.
90% of cost was to extract metals from ores. Now if population drops to 100 million it will be enought of it for everyone. Machines will take our place in recycling when elites poison us.

>>12269259
>He wants to be equal to others

Imagine been like this.

>>12269422
Retard... The bots will built the dapps... Its already happening.

>>12269259
>nobody has to work just to live in luxury ever again
Why do commies think they're entitled to other people's labour.
Isn't your whole shtick about not letting the capitalist take the fruits of labour from the workers.

>>12269496

>he defines himself by comparing himself to other people

Beta normie NPC mindset.

>>12269203
you're sooner to have mandatory cuck sessions under the neoliberal Marxist regime of equality than you are a white Europe

in a Marxist society EVERYTHING is shared, women included

>>12269139
Show me where Marx called the internet or the invention of the computer. He explicitly states several times in his writing that all capitalist entities will strive to consolidate and monopolize yet our technological advancements are encouraging the exact opposite. Marx literally said that kind of behavior from capitalist entities is IMPOSSIBLE.

So maybe Luddite wasn’t the right word, ignorant is a better one.

>>12269545
It's the perspective of a NEET.

"Fully automated luxury" is just a futuristic version of having your parent/guardian provide for you for the rest of your life.

>>12269422
>Having all my needs fulfilled means I can spend my time tinkering with cool shit that I would never dream of attempting while under contract with my employer.

Top kek
Thats why you're shit posting on an anonymous Chinese basket weaving forum in your free time right?

>>12268975

>technology advanced enough for fully automated luxury society
>still using a shitty centralized system like communism or capitalism

>>12268975
>in a purely efficient system profit and therefore wages will cease to exist

Agreed, and since we're both rational people and agree purely efficient systems do not exist outside specific sets of semiconductors and exotic states of matter, wages and profit motive are necessitated by the need to create upward momentum on efficiency in an inherently inefficient system.

>>12268975
Communism would only be possible in a post-scarcity society where you can create a huge number of anything extremely fast and with very little resources. We are very far from that and it's a question if we will every get there.

It's more likely that the rulers and the creators of all the technology would decide that we aren't needed anymore and see us all killed off slowly.

Elites aren't going to take care of you faggots with your "luxury communism"

You're going to be culled by their army of useful idiots and robots

The Elites are NEVER going to give up their position, even in a Communist Society they will simply influence from afar or become the upper echelon party members

I don't want to be equal to some crack addict nigger, so fuck off.

>>12268975
>>12268981
>>12269011
>>12269139
capitalism is liberty and freedom of disassociation
communism is collectivism and the absence of the freedom to disassociate
anyone who has read into matters that deal with society and says that capitalism is what has been driving things to shit (or that it even exists anymore) is either truly an NPC or wants to make themselves more powerful than everyone else by seizing control of the power that already exists, rather than making more

>>12269203
why would useless fucking migrants from shithole countries go somewhere where they both can't live off of welfare, and have to be competitive
crypto-backed ethno-enclaves that exist within an ancap nation are inevitable
some will be host to more successful and powerful individuals than others, largely because of genetic factors
that is the nature of things

>>12269387
>You want some AI in charge of that?
That sounds fantastic, if we're talking future AI that is capable of doing so reliably. This obviously removes human vector in decision making process once AI was fed enough data.
>not vulnerable to corruption
>not vulnerable to ideology clouding judgement
>not held down by bureaucracy
>always chooses the optimal solution
>works 24/7 to improve itself further
AI this smart could straight up cause Iceland to turn into a global power within a decade since any decision it takes would be the best one. How can you be too fucking basic to see the possibilities?

>>12269581
>A guy from the 19th century wasn't aware the internet would be invented 200 years later therefore his critique of Capital is wrong

Wtf did your brain short circuit or skip rendering completely anon

>>12269748
AI is shit because it disregards the aspect of raw human emotion, which is what makes us who we are and is an essential part of life and the human experience.

>>12269748
We could actually just run a lot of society through smart contracts.

Democratic liberal government could almost entirely be replaced by an app where we just vote for what we want

>>12269770
Shut the fuck up with your straw man. I claimed Marx was technologically ignorant and as another anon pointed out, Marx actually believed he was living in peak human technology. Turns out that wasn’t the case. Now not seeing highly impactful technology developments coming is forgivable if you are an average person, but it doesn’t cut it if you are trying to create an economic philosophy that’s irrevocably relevant.

>>12269871
What's Adam Smith's excuse for failing to predict the iPhone, then?

>>12268975
>Someone else will do my work for me
>I'll live in luxury
>Because they'll give me what they made
Communist Manifesto in a nutshell

a bunch of hegelians battling over two shitty ideologies. fuck off both of u lots.

can we have a dialectic

btw I'm of the opinion that socialism can work in the future because planned economies work much better with live data feeds rather than the slow reaction times of the past

>>12270034
ethereum fintech debt based socdem is the cutting edge marxpill right now i think.

>>12269781
Raw human emotion includes jealously, anger, lust, greed, sorrow, pride. Those should have no place in the management of human society.

>>12269335
You vision is what happens at the end of the tendency of the rate of profit to fall.

Capitalism final crisis will be the moment when we transition from a mode of production centered around division of labor and profit to your vision of the future.

>>12269936
Actually the pointer that we're doing all the work and the money is being taken by the rich, but okay (nice try)

>>12269387
>Who ensures you get your "fair" share? You want some AI in charge of that? Someone will still have the ability to program it so it will still be a human in charge of ensuring you get your "fair" share and we'll see how you feel when you have to go without for the good of everyone.

Like human politician are so much better than AI.

In such a system you wouldn't even notice the AI. Do you notice the subtleties of your search engine algorythm? GPS? Autonomous car? Maybe it is not suited best for you, but do you even notice it?

>>12270034
Bingo. The past had only the price mechanism. We now live in a society where a central authority can ingest billions of data points in real time

>>12268975
>pic
So this is what communists believe nowadays

>>12269922
Smith doesn’t have the contemporary philosophical following that Marx has and I didn’t claim Smith as being relevant.

>>12269748
An AI that only chose the best solutions possible would literally kill off all colored people and gas the retards.

>>12269770
It doesn't mean he's retarded, but it does mean he was wrong. As anon stated, centralization isn't the defacto future. It could be if people are retarded enough to allow it.

>>12270057
>debt based
Kikes always show their true colors.

>>12268975
Im open to trying a form of communism in the future. The problem with communism is they are anti hierarchal. I think with automation no one should have to work. But if someone wants to become exceptional they should have that right

>>12268975

Based and Redpilled
The Left is dead
Long live the Left

no surprise that socialists have swooped into cryptocurrency like the parasites they are. it was originally developed by anarchists, then capitalists came in to make money and made better shit, now the faggot socialists come in, fat and pimple faced like usual, trying to leach off of everyone else.

it's truly 10/10 knowing that this shit will never work. my favorite part is all the communist advocates would be the first to be killed off by the (((communist))) party.

>>12270274
anarchy is tamed by the socialists to make it even more marketable for even more people. chill out and dance together. =)

>>12270274
Lol all open source devs are literally L I T E R A L L Y communists and Satoshi had no other public political beliefs than vague distrust of the financial system

>>12270291
Socialists have never accomplished shit besides famine and failure. it was the US Founding Fathers and the Nationalist Socialist Party that truly tamed anarchy in their respective times on this Earth. Like I said, you're all inferior humans only kept alive because capitalists invested in modern medicine, developing it so that even the weakest of human vermin (you) could be kept alive. I truly despise the idea of runts like you being kept alive, but it is what it is. When you face the real world, especially the working class that despises you, you will run away scared.

>>12269122
>The current system is supported only by the bourgeoisie. In our age, the bourgeoisie owns car dealerships, chain restaurants, and builds awful strip malls and complains about paying more than minimum wage and that their macchiato took to long. They have no aesthetic sense, perform no labor, and act as leeches on society as they collect the rents.
This is extremely accurate.

>>12270327
sweetie, u need some more neoliberal education before u can join the adult conversations.

>>12270343
The runt responds with a runty response

i hate all you racist nazi's so much. the only reason communism has never worked is because it has never been real communism.

>>12269122
They support Marxism because it keeps them in power and it’s easy to spoonfeed to the lazy

>>12269259
>>12269203
>>12269335
Technocract theocracy is the only one that is enjoyable and still gives us purpose. Prove me wrong.

holy fuck I am so sick of the communist shilling on this board, fuck it's fucking annoying

/leftypol/ raids are getting on my motherfucking nerves

>>12270460
Imagine getting this ass blasted over the next natural step for civilization. You seem unable to even have a dialectic.

>>12270492
You can’t even show evidence for the labor theory of value, you don’t deserve a dialectic

>>12270460
It's best for all retarded poltards to leave. Biz is an ideology free zone.

>>12270492
>over the next natural step for civilization
You know, people who hate communism ain't fighting against your utopian fantasies.

Introducing educated opinion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_BPKhfWVds
you all need to understand that social design does not work, it goes against the wealth creation . Just That is enough

>>12270506
you're right, value is literally 100% bullshit. so, why do you continue to prop up this system of gigantic bullshit?

>>12270506

I have 20 yards of linen from which I make one coat

>>12270369

>the only reason communism has never worked is because it has never been real communism.

Indeed bolshevism wasn't communism. It was state capitalism. The owner of the means of production was the state.

About nazism, it was definitely capitalist as well. (see Anthony C. Sutton)

>>12270161
All our money is being taken by the government, the rich are our customers. Or do you not provide actual goods and services that people desire/need?

>>12269122
Yes, the bourgeoisie are scum. But they're more open to your faggotry than the working class. No coal miner wants a gay son.

>>12270492
>le just engage with me

no fuck off. the elites aren't going to take care of you like your mommy. they're going to sterilize everyone. youre going to be living in a bunkbed style dorm with DeQuan and Rasheed and have to participate in mandatory cuck sessions watching your girlfriend get fucked. it's not going to be this lax paradise you're imagining, you're going to be a poor fuck sharing a room with 3 other people. the biggest difference between now and your communist paradise, if you refuse to participate in your mandatory cuck sessions you're going to be shot.

god i hope you fucking die, i'd love to bash your fucking head in with a brick IRL for shilling your stupid ass ideology.

>>12270524
Not an argument

>>12270532
Debunked

>>12270532
If no one wants your coat, the linen is worth more. Your labor would actually reduce the material value because a shitty coat has less applications than yards of linen.

It’s so telling that nobody can provide even ONE BIT of evidence for the labor theory of value. Let that sink in!

>>12270567
ok, ill keep fighting capitalism by buying DOGE. i only can fight memes with memes it seems like.

>>12270592
diminishing returns dumbass

>>12270608
You can return deez nutz

>>12270608
Not an argument, zero sources, debunked

>>12270597
You can succeed by being a great employee

capitalists are right about that value is NOT based on labor, because it's literally arbitrary and based on lining the bourgeois' pockets. i don't advocate capitalism nor communism. right now, i think that amoral value nihilism is the way to go. just get that number up, no matter how irrational it is.

I can’t believe nobody has offered any evidence for the labor theory of value yet

>>12270631
yeah no. im not gonna do something that i don't like just to get bigger pointless numbers. what i want to do is to enjoy my creation of production.

>>12270658
you wont enjoy the creation of your production when your position is assigned to you by the state

>>12270552
If the ways of the proletariat differ from yours perhaps you are wrong? Isnt the point for them to set themselves free?

>>12270667
why do you think i'm all in on crypto? im not a fan of state capitalism too.

>>12270658
So go do it, what’s stopping you

>>12270676
access to liquidity to purchase ~1 million usd in solar panels

>>12270686
Fag, start with $10k. Doubt you need $1MM, you'll fail, easily. I know this based off how retarded you are

>>12270667
What job did the market assign you, anon? Your dream job, right?

>>12270686
Get a job and save up

>>12270709
I can choose what industry/specialization I want to pursue.

You're such a dumb naive fuck, you're whining about modern society because you might have to wagecuck some job you don't like under threat of not being able to afford the latest iPhone. Under your communist utopia, if you don't want to scrub my toilet as you were assigned to do, you're going to get tortured, shot and thrown into a ditch.

Kys you stupid fuck.

>>12270717
i am a lab assistant for my uni. i am also trying to trade the market to further my knowledge of the value bullshit. i am actively working towards my goals, but it doesn't mean that it isn't stupid as fuck that the society require me to waste all of this time for basically no reason at all.

>>12270780
runts like you arent supposed to ever find happiness. you were supposed to die young or in the cold. enjoy

>>12270780
With that attitude your solar thing will surely fail, so I can see why nobody’s entrusted you with capital yet

>>12268975
Neomarxism is what Aristophanes described in Assemblywomen. Marx was a tranny confirmed.

>>12270445
>Prove me wrong.
Impossible. Christ is the only way.

>>12269599
/post

&checked

>>12268975
>Starving to death
>"Luxury communism"

>>12270780
>society requires me to waste all of this time for basically no reason at all.
Most people who want a million dollars worth of solar panels are idiots. You have to prove you're not an idiot so the right people get all the solar panels.

Is the idea actually good? I can fund it if it is.

>>12270124
>>12270170
>>12270535
how to contact for further convo pls

>>12270904
Just hang out at the vape shop

Marxism and religion is basically the same thing adherents of both believe that you should gibsmedat now in return for a massive reward (no work! play all day!) in the long future (after death, after full automation).

>>12270750
I'm whining about modern society not because I'm a loser, but because I made it. I live off capital, do you understand? I know first hand that I did not labor to deserve this. I just got lucky in the market.

Anyway, u mad.

Btw you get more freedom to choose your labor under communism, better compensation, proper rights as a worker, etc. There's job boards, run by the government, and you apply for what you want to do.

Capitalism, on the other hand... Do you know how many people spend years bouncing between pointless McJobs just so that they don't starve? To produce goods that nobody wants or needs, to be paid nothing in return, to never develop craftsmanship, to live in dystopian poverty as the alienated labor that Marx predicted - that is the neo proletariat. You should carefully examine the misery inherent in the system you're attempting to defend.

Read the actual communist manifesto. It only takes like an hour m8

>>12270982
neither system is a fix

both sides of the same shekel and you're both groups of idiots who are trying failed ideologies that are a century year old

>job boards
you know we have those now, right?

>owning your own labor
>having to apply through the government

fuck you're dumb

>>12268975
Whatever "luxury communism" is, it will never work sustainably without culling down the population to 10% of what it is now and make sure that only highly skilled + spiritually enlightened people gets to live.

>>12270780
>Society require me
Nobody supports you because your idea is shit or you're not charismatic enough, not because you're a victim

>>12270870
USSR had higher caloric intake per capita than the US for about 40 years.

Yeah, people starved during and immediately after WW2 in Russia, one of the poorest and most corrupt countries in the world. That really has very little to do with the economic system

FYI Marx and Engels thought that Communism would only start in advanced Western economies, and didn't believe Russia nor China had developed enough to start it

>>12270982
Debunked

You’ll be picking crops in the fields or off to the gulag with you

Still waiting for ONE bit of evidence to support the labor theory of value

>>12270915
kekd

>>12271013
The point is that the jobs in capitalism are irrational. Yes, great we have 34 brands of toothpaste and you can work in Arby's, great

I'd rather have the economy directed more at STEM and space exploration than having hundreds of millions of people making each other's shitty cheeseburgers but that's just me

We are currently at 42 failed communist states, 100 million dead from those countries, over 50 socialism caused economic collapses, and the ongoing socialism induced demise of the western education system in favor of marxism. My only question is, how much more death and destruction is needed to prove to you that central planning/control is literally the worst yet conceived form of government. Fuck off kikes.

>>12270982
You're too empathetic and thinks the best of everyone. Most of the time they're there because they do not spend spare time on progressing their intellect or technical skill, and spends what little money they have on material and unmeaningful things.

>>12271038
Farming was tremendously automated in the latter half of the 20th century, nobody's going back to working in the fields or hammering away at pieces of hot metal, 21st century communism is going to be vastly different brah

Why is Marx treated as some clairvoyant prophet?
It's ironic that people obsessed with technological utopianism peg themselves to one philosopher from the 19th century.

>>12271080
...in your mind where this is headcanon already

>>12271080
I will grant you that 21st century Venezuela is even less successful than most of the previous attempts at implementing Marx’s idea

>>12271058
It IS rational because the markets are only responding to the consumers - YOU. If you genuinely feel that space exploration and all that will be worth the investment, then by all means and go ahead to devote YOUR life in sciences and donate all money to it. What you are describing is the cancer that is the low-middle class, who mostly sacrifice resources on inherently, as you call it, "pointless" jobs and things.

>>12271073
Most of the poor are sucked dry by the current system -- a single father working two jobs can't reasonably be expected to get into say, machine learning or whatever other high tech field that would actually be useful to society

If there was a social safety net that provided for everyone, the poor would move way further up Maslow's ladder and resemble the upper middle class within a generation -- we know from history that they would then be receptive to population control and we could actually start the large projects that we need for 21st century life -- population control, eugenics, space exploration, etc.

By 2050, if we fail to reform or replace the current system, we'll have a DEstroYEd ecology, no oil, and 9 billion angry poors with 3D printed assault rifles and basically good luck at that point

It's also funny that the capital expenditure required to become a 'capitalist' is at the lowest it has ever been and is constantly shrinking. Marx is dead, and we have killed him. He will not be missed.

>>12271155
>we know from history that they would then be receptive to population control and we could actually start the large projects that we need for 21st century life -- population control, eugenics, space exploration, etc.
So basically, you're yet another rich fuck obsessed with ruling over others? It's pretty typical, anyone who identifies as a "communist" just has latent fantasies of ruling society.

>>12270982
> I know first hand that I did not labor to deserve this. I just got lucky in the market.

So you got all your current wealth from investments? You are exact kind of people communists hate.

>Btw you get more freedom to choose your labor under communism, better compensation, proper rights as a worker, etc. There's job boards, run by the government, and you apply for what you want to do.

If there's more freedom in labor, then why does it have to be managed? If anything, it'll be the opposite of what you think would happen as was the case in the countries that attempted communism. The people who manage things will give the best jobs to themselves and their friends and relatives.

>To produce goods that nobody wants or needs

If nobody wants them, nobody would buy them.

>>12270460
At least they pretend to try here.
/pol/ is just baitposting now. It's worse than /v/, and that's saying something. Fucking Twitter screencaps ruined 4chan.

>>12271155
I actually can't wait to warlord it up over boomer graves.

>>12271155

>no oil by 2050

I can't believe people still believe this. I have a retarded uncle who is always going on about this.

>>12270670
>perhaps you are wrong?
Are you asking yourself? I hate fags. Commies are the biggest of them.

>>12271155

You're arguing for more state control over people's lives. Isn't that the opposite of communism's goals?

>>12271147
Ah, I guess the poors must own and control the entire field of marketing, and produce advertisements that entice each other to get fat on cheeseburgers.

Or maybe just maybe the bourgeoisie own everything, and have various mechanisms to ensure that the poor consume and labor and die without getting their fair share.

Maybe the bourgeoisie and their corporations even own all the media and will never allow capitalism to be questioned?

Maybe they've even astroturfed the left to be controlled opposition that still supports mass immigration to lower wages and keep the poor blaming other races for their problems.

>>12271196
No one who places any value in their time posts on /pol/ after 2016. We won the election, but no one expected the boomer flood to pour in afterwards.

>>12271227
More state control over the economy doesn't mean that people lose personal liberty.

When you work all day for nothing, what personal liberty do you have?

>>12271267
I really doubt it's boomers. It's just too unlikely of a scenario to be realistic to me. I think it's just shills shilling shills shilling shills. Babby's first troll playground. "Look ma, I made them angry again!"

Still waiting on that evidence

Politics used to be something practical with very little ideology in it before the french revolution, what dominated the mind of people in terms of beliefs was not politics, it was religion. Only since this era systems of governance became ideologies, before that society organized organically and what was important was living in accordance to christian teachings, not optimizing society based on material imperatives.
Since religion is in decline some people are compensating by adopting zealous/fanatical beliefs in politics, that's why leftists have such a cult like/emotional behaviour and deep ego investment.

The only thing you have to understand in our era about politics is that the average modern leftist is someone with low self esteem who internalized powerlessness and victimhood as an identity while leftist leader are narcissistic sociopaths thinking they are entitled to the ressources and respect of others. It's basically a mix of mentally ill people mixed with
predatory personalities.

>>12271277
Nobody under a capitalist system works all day for nothing

>>12271330
Haha, as if the alt right is an example of "high self esteem" and sanity. How many people did alt right incels gun down this year?


Yeah man those leftists sure are nuts

>>12271344
There's about 6 billion people you seemed to forget about who do in fact work all day at jobs they hate for basically nothing

>>12271360
They are paid wages and spend the money on dumb bullshit when they should be saving and investing

If you feel for them you should use your resources to help them, nothing is stopping you

>>12271349
Zero, they were false flag events performed by intelligence agencies to destabilize society

>>12271349
You don't get to be free of guilt either. Bernie Boomers attempted political assassinations and antifa, while still simple babbs who just want to get into fistfights, are looking for a fight. And the worst terrorist attack of all was still Muslim-ran.

>>12271424
Oh, yeah okay sure. Intelligence agencies are shooting up schools and places of worship and not angry incels. Extremely sane position.

You're fucking out of reality and just rekt your pro-capital arguments by proving yourself insane.

>>12271450
Ad hominem is not an argument, triggerflake

Still waiting on that labor = value evidence

>>12271450
(Neither is sarcasm)

>>12271277
That's exactly what happened when communist regimes controlled the economy in the 20th century. People were forced to work all day in communes/gulags with for nothing. They have no freedom to choose their jobs or even leave their towns in search of jobs.

When the state controls the economy, they will share the responsibility of producing results because their existence would be tied to it. That means the state would be forced to sacrifice liberty to produce results or it would lose power. In effect, the state would became the "evil bossman", the very thing that the proletariat hate.

>>12271243
those who get enticed by ads only have THEMSELVES to blame, as they do not have the maturity to take control of the free will they inherently possess. Those who find themselves in a minimum wage position competing against third world immigrants only have THEMSELVES to blame, as they, a first worlder with access to far superior infrastructures and opportunities, couldn't devote enough time to learn a skill that makes them unexpendable.

On a side note: Those who owns "everything" sees life as competition of bloodlines. Everything they do concerns with making sure their lineage gets upper advantage, each generation stronger than the next. There is no "me", but a collective entity that transcends time. Compare that to how a typical person thinks and you have your answer as to why the world is as it is today

>>12271360
>he thinks im going to go out of my way for 3rd world savages

J U S T
U
S
T

OH NOOO NOO NONONOOO

>>12271330
Politics were never this bipolar, majority were much closer to the centre decades ago. What you're seeing now is pure propaganda and brainwashing

>>12271578
Good point about bloodlines

Still waiting for that evidence that labor = value

>>12271578
You do not get laid

>>12271725
Muh dick

>>12271593
Center is just whatever the media decides it is. If you ask the ruling parties what a "centrist opinion" is, they'll say that support for disgusting trannies is a centrist opinion.

>>12270894
ok how do i contact u

>>12271330

based and redpilled.

>>12271450
>You're fucking out of reality and just rekt your pro-capital arguments by proving yourself insane.
Note, this the type of person that thinks he should have control over society.
All leftists want to do dominate others.

>>12271879
The more a person convinces themself that they are oppressed, the more that they believe they should be the oppressor. They feel that they deserve it.

>>12270224
jej

>>12269387
Who said anything about fair?

>>12269936
This is the principle that underlies capitalism.

>>12269967
Hegelianism is fucking dumb.

>>12270640
That value (long term average prices) are determined by labor is an empirically confirmed fact.

>>12270642
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/09/11/emperical-strength-of-ltv/
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/09/11/labour-values-prices-of-production/
http://users.wfu.edu/cottrell/eea97.pdf
http://reality.gn.apc.org/econ/DZ_article1.pdf
http://www.helmutdunkhase.de/marxts.pdf
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2017/08/14/japan-ltv-test/

>>12271168
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chEVQXbcIFo
People still work for a living.

>>12271116
Marx had very few ideas to implement about communism, he was interested in an analysis of capitalism. Compare Venezuela and Bolivia, two countries with socialist governments, and suddenly it seems like having a single commodity based economy isn't a great idea.

>>12271147
It wasn't markets that made travel possible, markets are historically incapable of doing the deep R and D necessary for major innovations.

>>12271330
>very little ideology
Ideology is trans-historical. There's literally ancient greek historians, social commentators who wrote about popular political slogans and what they really meant. Aristotle spent much time dissecting popular ideology in his writings on politics.

>>12271391
People are generally paid only enough for their labor to be reproduced, that's a systemic issue, not a personal ethical one.

>>12273280
*space travel

>>12270315
Nick Szabo is an anarchocapitalist, you fucking basedboy idiot

>>12273280
>ideology is trans-historical
>systemic

“Sorry ma’am...he’s dead. Sóy overdose. We did everything we could.”

>>12273342
>i've never read a book my entire life: the post

>>12268975
I do comrade but biz isn´t really the best place to ask that...

>>12273360
>retroactively applying your ideology to past academics in a cheap attempt to boost the credibility of said ideology

>>12273386
>t. Tankie

>>12273446
anon was implying the idea of transhistorical and systemic things was made up.

>>12273360
>speaks in nothing but headcanon snippets to cover for a lack of actual ability to analyze, the person

>>12273459
They are

>>12273462
>>12273470
hence, you are a moron.

>>12273484
>actually used the word hence unironically

You need to be 18 to post here

>>12269581
>implying that globalization doesn’t kill small business
>implying that massive companies like amazon and google don’t dominate the internet
>implying that Etsy pages and small cutesy novel business are threatening big corporations
>implying that the internet didn’t monopolize larger businesses by allowing for more advertisement and ways to sell product
Holy hell, is this the true power of capitalist thinking

>>12268975
>>he doesn't believe fully automated luxury communism is the future
It's a possible future, one of many.
>>he doesn't realize that capitalism creates the technology and wealth and crises that will lead to its replacement.
This does nothing to suggest that communism will be it's replacement, especially after watching communism fail every time it's been attempted over the past 100 years. Every time.
>>he doesn't realize that in a purely efficient system, profit and therefore wages will cease to exist
Capitalism is the opposite of an efficient system. Isn't that what you guys teach, that Mr Pig the factory owner 'steals' wealth from the worker's created value?
>>he isn't a jacked antifa super soldier with 300 confirmed bikelocks
No, I didn't take gender studies.
Your ideology is one of utter destruction that leaves the state in control of everything. For a group so scared of fascism, it's simply ironic.

>We are the working class, comrade! I do backbreaking labor every single day attending my 7th year at university.

>>12273897
Communists don't care about small businesses. They lump them together in the same category as large corporations.

>>12273975
What are you even arguing. His premise was that the internet encourages diversity in the market. My argument was that is doesn’t. I’m not making an ethical or moral distinction between small business and large businesses. I’m showing how the internet doesn’t promote market diversity.

I've limited energy, but how do I help to organize in Canada? Are there any IWW chapters up here?

>>12274030
>I’m limited energy

Great start

>>12274107
I'm sick

>>12274112
Yup

>>12274130
Don't you worry, I'll get better

>>12274016
Why even bring up the market diversity argument then if you don't even care to make a distinction between large and small businesses?

>>12270642
It is just you who don't accept the obvious.

Let's try to explain the labor theory of value with a negative example.

If the machines were doing all of the production, from extracting raw material, to production, to distrubution, how much would you pay for a particular item? Probably close to zero, since a machine (dead labor) "works" all the time. It could produce an infinite number of items. The only limit would be the scarcity of the raw materials. Since the items produced by the machine would be of an infinite quantity produced, their value would massively decrease, and be close to zero. It is human work which give mostly value to products.

>>12269259
You have the mind of a child and no idea about the implications of a "fully automated world" nor do you understand human nature or game theory.

This thread was moved to >>>/pol/198097133