/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>12266506
Agreed.

>>12266506
Stop believing shitcoins will be first on cmc Bitcoin is the only crypto that matter all your shitcoins won't be first

>>12266506
You guys are idiots. It is the "store of value" for the crypto ecosystem. When you buy/sell alts you store you value in BTC. Kek. The IQ on this board has really gone down.

>>12266506
You're wrong actually. It's a combination of factors. And what you say has to do with it but it isn't the only thing.

It can't that's why alts are absolutely justed so next time it moons alts go up in USD but down in sats

>>12266506
That capture is retarded, consumers aren't the ones really benefiting from crypto, it's the sellers who have to pay the fees and wait weeks for their funds to be cleared. For the buyers its the same.

>>12266527
that's not the question. What would you do with your bitcoins if it fell to the second or third place? Would you sell or buy more?
>>12266530
>When you buy/sell alts you store you value in BTC
no, you store it in stablecoins. Entire 2017 was about 'tethering up', now other stablecoins are growing fast. Get with the times.
Right now the volume of all stablecoins in top 100 is 86% of btc's volume.

>>12266506
It can't

>>12266506
>Can bitcoin survive not being first on cmc?
It would be extrem ely painful.
>It seems to me it can't, because the whole narrative relies on bitcoin as being _the_ 'store of value' and thinking it's the only coin that matters
Nailed it fren. Preach.
>Once it loses the #1 spot even for a day the whole meme structure collapses into dust.
Idk. I try to not underestimate the ability of bitcoiners to cling to their delusions. I would hope it would be the killing blow, though.

>Can bitcoin survive not being first on cmc?
the question you meant to ask is can crypto survive, and no, it can't.

>>12266530
That’s good for now but with 0x you can just sell alt for alt, no need for sell and buy which btw means two taxable events lol.

>>12267488
>I try to not underestimate the ability of bitcoiners to cling to their delusions
he says, dreaming about a world where he didn't miss out on bitcoin, and wasn't forced to gamble on short term alts

>>12267529
>he says, dreaming about a world where he didn't miss out on bitcoin, and wasn't forced to gamble on short term alts
/thread

>>12267529
d-delet

>>12266506
BTC is one huge scam. It took me a while to understand how such a huge con can go on for years, but it's really simple when you think about it: everyone who buys BTC only buys it to hold for a few years, then sell for more fiat to the next sucker, no one buys BTC hoping it'll be world currency. That way it doesn't matter at all if it actually has any prospects on a technical level, it's suffice for investors to have a constant stream of promises of a future miraculous "Lightning Network" which will keep the hype and lure in new money.

I can't explain any other way how BTC has such high valuation when there are at least 20 better coins.

>>12267699
>when there are at least 20 better coins.
that's how I know you are a brainlet

>>12267529
check em

>>12267501
>the question you meant to ask is can crypto survive, and no, it can't.
how does that even make sense. So one day for example ethereum becomes #1 and bitcoin #2. What exactly do you think happens next that would somehow destroy crypto?

>>12266527
>stop believing "automobiles" will catch on we've been using horses for thousands of years

eth is better than btc

>>12266506
Woa a good post by OP on /biz/ that isn't shilling or fudding. Wtf is going on. Could it be that the Vishnu is on the blockchain

>>12268411
ethereum has a surface area much larger than bitcoin, so sure, if it actually becomes a serious platform then it might have a higher total value that bitcoin, but that can't be from people dismissing bitcoin as a store of value and buying something else. if bitcoin gets "replaced" in that way, the whole concept of store of value in crypto evaporates.

each generation didn't have their own gold, gold traversed thousands of years untouched. if bitcoin can't stick around for a decade or two then it just shows that cryptocurrencies can't be good stores of value.

>>12268693
>just shows that cryptocurrencies can't be good stores of value
wouldn't this also be a blessing in disguise? Freed from being pigeon-holed as a store of value maybe people will I don't know...use them as a medium of exchange?

>>12268743
sure if you want the valuation of all crypto to decimate and most likely never recover.

the only reason everything is so inflated is because people think that any altcoin has value worth trading, which we know is a lie, but the lie perpetuates because bitcoin has maintained its value for a decade and is essentially propping up the entire alt market.

>>12268627
They do t eaven have a fucking monetary policy...bloated shir blockchain used for nothing...

>>12266506
I have been calling it for months now. USDT will become #1.

>>12268836
nobody cares about monetary policy though. its like all the shitcoins and dead platforms that have "governance" as a feature. nobody cares about their useless token to care what the governance of it actually is.

>>12268859
i have a feeling tether would collapse long before bitcoin hit <5B

>>12268883
>i have a feeling
Good for you.

Stable-coins are better for trading and will therefore take that role from BTC. Not a question if, only when.

>>12268743
>.use them as a medium of exchange?
no one is gonna use a volatile currency as a medium of exchange, maybe except drug addicts etc

>>12268693
>ethereum has a surface area much larger than bitcoin, so sure, if it actually becomes a serious platform then it might have a higher total value that bitcoin

looks up the market cap of all the money in the world, gold/fiat, whatever, and then compare it to the market cap of all the platforms likw AWS etc

eth is a pure gas/fee shitcoin, no one needs decentralized dapps, the only thing that needs to be decentralized is MONEY, not fucking apps, because if one app fucks up the competitor will eat it alive, in terms of money there is no free market/competition, if there was somene would come up with non-inflationary money and everyone would've ditched shitty FIAT a long time ago.

Bitcoin is much bigger than all the utility shitcoins, dapp platforms or whatever the fuck tech nerds think will change the world.

>>12268693
this anon is right, if bitcoin doesn't succeed as a store of value for some reason, people will never put trust in another coin, at least not during out life time

>>12268904
theres very little reason to be using tether in that scenario though. if you're keeping things in tether you might as well be keeping them on an exchange because neither are good long term ways to store value.

>>12268950
ethereum clearly has it's place in the market, you couldn't say the same for any other alt, is my point.

>>12268977
it has its place but if eth was only valued based on its usage for smart contracts/decentralized computing it would proabably be around $7 or whatever Vitalik calculated, with a store of value the fact of holding money in it is usage in itself. At least that's how I see it but it will be a long time before sillicon valley and tech nerd brainlets realize that crypto is about money not technology.

Decentralized money is the only thing that matters, the first and probably last killer app

>>12268693
>the whole concept of store of value in crypto evaporates.
It already did, stablecoins are the only store of value in crypto.
Only tokens that bring income have any fundamental value.
>>12268950
>eth is a pure gas/fee shitcoin
the value is due to staking in the future, not direct demand for fees.

>>12269006
staking is a meme, it will never work

>>12269003
yes, and in that world bitcoin would be a couple of hundred dollars too. the fact is speculation hits all coins and drags them all up. if ethereum can't survive then sure, bitcoin is the only relevant project in the space, but im pretty sure ethereum's going to be one of the only coins to outlive this current generation of alts.

>>12269006
stablecoins are pegged or backed by non-stores of value, so no, they're not related at all. no token that brings "income" in the form of more tokens has fundamental value either.

>>12269015
It already works on tezos, but staking alone doesn't bring value, the network has to be used.
Cardano seems poised to launch in 2019. If ethereum doesn't release PoS for too long something else based on PoS will replace it, whether it already exists or not.
(PoS != DPoS)
Staking is literally the only non-speculative source of value, price from pure utility demand is going to be too small to be noticeable.
>>12269045
>no token that brings "income" in the form of more tokens has fundamental value either.
that's not how it works, there's a demand worth eg. $10M in daily fees. Tokens are only used as a medium of exchange for that $10M, in the end $10M flows to stakers.

It's possible ether or other staking token becomes a store of value based on that staking income, but store of value can't exist in itself.

>>12269045
>stablecoins are pegged or backed by non-stores of value
Us dollar is an infinitely better store of value than bitcoin lol.

>>12269319
maybe on a daily timeframe lol

>>12269067
>but store of value can't exist in itself.
wrong, what is the obsession everyone has with muh utility,
>hurr it needs utility
reagrdless of how ridiculous it is as long as it has some meme utility it suddenly becomes a good store of value?
immutable, decentralized, capped-supply money is more important than some meme protocol designed by a commie who is basicly in control of his shitcoin and will print as much as he wishes because all the bagholders do as he says

>>12270230
>reagrdless of how ridiculous it is as long as it has some meme utility it suddenly becomes a good store of value?
without utility the fundamental value is zero, which translates into never ending volatility as long as there's speculative interest.
With a fundamental valuation the price oscillates around it, and these oscillations can be small
>immutable, decentralized, capped-supply money
It's not money just because you say it is. The market is already speaking, bitcoin lost its niche SoV utility to stablecoins. Bitcoin had more genuine adoption in 2015.
>will print as much as he wishes
actually he proposes a hard cap, but even that's not relevant. After PoS inflation goes to stakers, so as long as you stake the effective rate is zero regardless of the inflation rate. Adoption (fee demand) becomes the only thing that matters.

>>12270230
>maybe on a daily timeframe lol
On every possible timeframe. Do you even know what store of value means? It definitely doesn't mean making a profit if you buy early enough.

>>12270389
>without utility the fundamental value is zero, which translates into never ending volatility as long as there's speculative interest.
>With a fundamental valuation the price oscillates around it, and these oscillations can be small
bitcoin has utility and natural demand, people do store value in it, either to escape their opressive shitholes like venezuela or china (that alone puts btc around $800-$1200) or simply to hedge against the collapse/(hyper)inflation of FIAT.

>It's not money just because you say it is.
that's exactly what it is, FIAT money doesn't have any utility outside of being money either.

>The market is already speaking, bitcoin lost its niche SoV utility to stablecoins.
good luck storing your value in FIAT-pegged shitcoins

>actually he proposes a hard cap, but even that's not relevant.
he proposes diffferent shit every year, he is a clueless commie and that's why people will never take him or his shitcoin seriously

>After PoS inflation goes to stakers, so as long as you stake the effective rate is zero regardless of the inflation rate.

yea I'm sure some poor pajeet staking $2k worth of eth will be glad that the "effective" rate is 0 because some whales soaked that up while their share of all the coins keeps declining
How do you even reach consensus in POS, you're basicly trusting some eth whales, it's never gonna be a truly secure and decentralized model, vitalik knows it but he's an eco-train-hype riding faggot so he has to at least pretend like it's "just around the corner"

>>12270459
I guess when people first discovered gold they should've said
>eh fuck it, we are too early and can make too much profit, let's forget about it

>>12266506

Why bother, there's already cards that convert bitcoin to any local currency and you can pay with them anywhere you can pay with any major credit card.

Except this one won't get blocked if you cross a border.