/biz/ - Business & Finance

i too googled and learned computer science in an afternoon and got a 150k job the next day

>>12251011
>>12251029
sup poorfags

As a young guy trying to teach himself programming, do you have any learning resource recommendations? I really want to build my skillset.
I don't think codecademy is going to cut it..

>>12251029
Wow, only 150k? I was making 500k as an underwater welding apprentice when I was 15.

>>12251011
I did pretty much the same thing, though unfortunately I didn't realize that college was a Jewish scam until after doing one year
Dropped out and taught myself. Fast-forward a couple years and I've already got a job with my student debt paid off whereas some guys I know from freshman year won't be graduating until next year. At that point I will have two years of professional experience over them

>>12251046
if you can'f start learning it on your own with no help at all but the google search engine just quit already cause you wont' be able to compete.

>>12251053
No you weren't. That's the go to lie job. I bet you had a smokin girlfriend in Canada too

>>12251086
Thanks dad.
Believe it or not, I know how to use google.

i can confirm as an HR employee that education is literally the last thing Im looking at. First being the basic characteristics like age, sex, nationality then experience, then small details that reveal much like highlighting bullshit accomplishments and possible lying (making up dates of previous employers to match each other making it look like the person was never actually out of workforce even for a day) etc. The school actually does not matter at all if the person is experienced, skilled and matches the expectations to at least give it a go. In fact I prefer people with no diploma because they most like did not have a stable family and must have worked hard while diplomafags got everything in their life for free and expect the world to turn around them. Unless of course its a social science uni... then its instant delete and block whatever his/hers experience and skills are.

>>12251139
you don't know how to google if you're asking here for help building your skillset
fuck you're dumb

>>12251011
Who else here autodidact IT?

>>12251177
I was asking for resource recommendations you silly nigger.
Mind your own

>>12251221
you're not going to make it when you're incapable of teaching yourself

>>12251236
>asking for tips and pointers means you can't teach yourself
>you should trust jewgle more than the fellow memesters on /biz/

>>12251155
>First being the basic characteristics like age, sex, nationality then experience
I can confirm that you are not an HR employee in any way because what you are doing is literally illegal.

>>12251096
delta P

>>12251253
>thinks handfeeding resources that they can easily find themselves will actually be helpful
>defends the intellectual laziness that guarantees they won't be successful
They will never make it with that kind of approach
I'm doing them a favor by telling them this. If they're not an absolute brainlet they'll change their ways.
Or they can keep igniggering good advice as they're doing now and never be successful.

>>12251330
The same outcome could've been accomplished had you never posted, or existed for that matter.

>>12251340
thought so, a fag cant change his faggotry

>>12251190
dropped out of A levels (britfag) and started a shit-tier service desk job and now i'm currently in a systems analyst for aus gov, shits cash senpai.

>>12251277
oh, sweet summer child
do you think people turn off their perceptive abilities just because the law is a certain way? if you're in HR as more than a diversity hire, you are PAID to be discriminatory
half of the game is picking the right candidate, the other half is finding the compliant excuse to dismiss all the other ones
good HR knows whether they're going to hire you or not before you've opened your mouth. everything else is for the sake of appearances, and making sure some major personality flaw wasn't overlooked

>>12251190
Tell me that's not an entire years wage... How poor are you

>>12251330
>expecting a modicum of help and advice from fellow autists is lazy
>people should just bootstrap themselves into wealth with their mouth shut

I know for a fact that some resources are not as easily found as you make it out to be. There is a lot to choose from and asking for other people's opinions is not a bad idea. But you probably like to picture yourself as the tough guy who can do everything on his own and never embarrasses himself asking when he doesn't know something.

>>12251011
Welcome to the club

That's one option. Or you could get a PhD in machine learning and a 400k starting job. Good luck pulling this off self taught.

>>12251011
How do you get a programming job with no degree?

self taught dev

learned building habbo emulators and cms's throughout 2012-2015

my code is spaghetti tier but gets the job done. would recommend at least a bootcamp

>>12251011
t.mathlet

What's up OP. Are you trying to deal with the fact that your parents will never be proud of you because you dropped out? >>>/g/69082616

>>12251397
>claims there's some super valuable resources that are not easily found
>doesn't share them
nice going anon

>There is a lot to choose from and asking for other people's opinions is not a bad idea
Asking for opinions is one thing, asking for a vague collection of "resource recommendations" so he can "teach myself programming. I really want to build my skillset" is another and clearly shows he put no effort to find any on his own at this point.
If he really wants to build his skillset he would spend the time researching and teaching himself ("googling it") because that in itself is part of the skillset - a skillset he claims to already know. Why do you want to deprive that learning experience away from him?
>But you probably like to picture yourself as the tough guy who can do everything on his own and never embarrasses himself asking when he doesn't know something.
kek it's weird that you cast people as caricatures (that needless to be said, are completely incorrect)

Hope you end up working with this guy so you can handhold him through all his googleable problems every 15 minutes.

>>12251011
>CS is required before programming.

CS is a waste of time, and only necessary if you really want to know minutia that isn't going to help you earn a living.

Programming, on the other hand, is relatively quick and easy to learn. It's criminal how colleges operate.

>>12251046
Write your own stuff, make a solitaire game, a script that pulls your coin prices etc.
Rolling your sleeves up & solving real problems will teach you.

>>12251011

lol why would I shit on you self-taught devs? Much respect to get to that level. I rarely used what I learnt from my CS degree anyway. Better off not getting one unless you want to solve really complex problems with algorithms shit. But even nowadays the real complex stuff like AI and big data are being handled by physicists not CS graduates lol.

Dear GS (gender studies) majors who shit on self-taught profs,
It’s great that you paid thousands of dollars to learn about binary genders and understand the complexities of discrete gender and science. You know what I did? Googled that shit and am now living my best life, debt free. But continue...

Self taught C/C++ back in 2002-3 when I was a kid.

Went to uni to study computer science but changed it to philosophy last minute. Now work in finance.

I'm learning some programming again now for fun and it's easy as fuck. No wonder so many 80 IQ pajeets take this up as their profession. You guys are way overpaid for what you do, but have the protection of the crowd of 110s and cult like circle jerk companies to herd yourselves into.

>>12252497
>philosophy last minute. Now work in finance.
Some of the smartest people I know are self-taught philosophers, and interestingly many work in finances. Philosophy majors are among the best paid graduates, but it likely has to do only with the kind of people who choose it as a subject.
> You guys are way overpaid for what you do
This is one of the least rewarding most burn out jobs in the world, and staring in LED light all day is bad for vision on top .

>>12252548

Well philosophy does attract those types but also has the stigma of being swamped by Marxist postmodernist bullshit - my studies were relatively balanced though.

I'm sure guys that are doing heavy back end work in low level languages are paid well for what they do. Fucking roasties doing a 4 week JavaScript boot camp and then joining a large software house on massive salary for writing 3 lines of code a day and doing a 5 min agile scrum not so much.

>>12251011
>be CS chad
>get into the highest paying Software Engineering jobs at places like Google because you actually bothered to prepare for their algorithm questions in order to land the job
Sounds like a simple case of sour grapes to me OP. Only the weakest betas can't handle rejection. Chad moves on to the next girl/interview etc without being a whiny little bitch.
But by all means, never improve and give up applying. It help keep me and the bros salary high. These thots don't fuck themselves you know.

>>12252610
>but also has the stigma of being swamped by Marxist postmodernist bullshit
Tbh I never found an D-g tier current day thinker who is conservative/rightist. Maybe it mostly have to do with the degree of how much of a free thinker one is and how he aligns himself compared to the herd and current opinions.

>Fucking roasties doing a 4 week JavaScript boot camp and then joining a large software house on massive salary for writing 3 lines of code a day and doing a 5 min agile scrum not so much.
That's a myth. I never saw someone hired for a real company doing real IT work without a degree or at least tech sorcerers having top 10% resume.

>>12252673
>Sounds like a simple case of sour grapes to me OP.
Real CS folks hate the management level. They think they are nothing but parasites who don't understand how to hire good devs and treat them like just non technical employees.
I never worked in an IT company, but I knew managemers and dev team leaders, and they were so me of the least tech literate people I ever met.

>>12251011
I started out as self-taught developer, and went back to school to fix that. Because I did this in Europe, I paid essentially nothing for the school and only took the opportunity cost (worked part time as a developer though) and got a master's as well.

Having a good degree from a good school opens doors for anyone, and not just purely for job reasons, but also say to help become eligible to migrate to certain countries. You also check off that box not just for others, but also for yourself: knowing what it's like to study at a university and doing away with the "what if" questions that might have arisen later.

I'm sure it did a lot of sub-conscious things for me, but the main things that stuck out for me were:

- Being forced through tons of courses to see a diverse range of topics and learn complex material quickly, even if you HATE that material or find it really challenging. It develops a sense of being able to work on any problem
- Getting basic training in mathematics and theory, which makes many topics like AI or image processing far more accessible. This also applies to research papers and books in most other areas
- There were a lot of graded assignments especially during the bachelor's, which trained diligent problem solving, writing, and structuring information over and over and over again. Similarly, I was forced to give a lot of presentations, enabling me to familiarize myself with this skill in a fairly benevolent environment
- Getting time to fully focus on projects that interest you, e.g. the thesis, in a context that is likely to be more productive than hacking up some portfolio project as a NEET

Overall a CS grad seems more qualified on average, in terms of knowledge and trained problem solving abilities, to deal with complex problems. As always, there will be some exceptions at the extremes.

I can see how tuition in the US makes the choice more difficult, and I'm happy I didn't have to deal with that.

>>12252685
>failing for the 'management is bad' meme
Weak men settle for weak bosses. When people complain about a bad job, 90% of the time it's actually a bad boss. If you're in that situation, just be a man, a professional and quietly leave for something better. Eventually you'll find a decent boss and notice a tremendous difference in your day to day/well being at work.

The reason a lot of these bad bosses manage to stay employed is because weak men continue to keep working for them. You'll find that a lot of these people who continue to stay there will tell you that they 'don't have time to leave', Mr Shekelberg seems to own them but they always seem to plenty of time to complain about their woe is me bullshit. Fuck them.

>>12251011
code a binary tree right now faggot and create a 2d visualization of that tree in a github page.

tfw autodidact and business owner

>>12252764
>The reason a lot of these bad bosses manage to stay employed is because weak men continue to keep working for them.
HAHA you have no idea what it is like to work in a market where there are 3 suitable candidates for every position.

>>12251011
i paid for the CS degree and i still cant program

>>12251011
CS major here (EU, paid a 2-3k in total).
I genuinely prioritise self-taught candidates to other majors. I've already hired 4 self taught devs and only 1 major.
I prefer people who can take a big challenge and handle it themselves without being NPCs or needing spoon feeding.
Most interviewers are not like me though, not yet at least.

>thinking $100k/y is a lot

Is /biz/ literally poorfags? If you aren't making $100k in 2018 you are probably legitimately retarded.

>>12251053

lmao sucks to be you. I was making 750K with dropshipping when i was 9.

>>12252701
Basically this. In EU you can work and study at the same time and education is almost free. Doesn't make sense to skip university. Self-taught devs I hire come from impoverished Eastern Euro areas, but otherwise it's not a bad idea.
Paying 100k+ for a second grade college in the States sounds absurd though. Maybe worth it for MIT, but I'd assume the rest of the CS majors are NPC-s

>>12253413
autocomplete and google are your friend unless you try to work in embedded then its google and Datasheets

>>12253435
>I genuinely prioritise self-taught candidates to other majors. I've already hired 4 self taught devs and only 1 major.
>I prefer people who can take a big challenge and handle it themselves without being NPCs or needing spoon feeding.

I don't know the specific instances in which grads required "spoon feeding", and they may well have done poorly, but in many other instances I imagine grads actually have an advantage in terms of teamwork due to academic group projects.

Asking for more details on the task may be spoon-feeding in some instances, but is likely to be more productive in many other instances, where working out too many details by yourself could be a waste of time or you might be tempted to develop something based on incomplete information that does not fully meet the needs.

>>12253818
I mean the 4:1 ratio is how things turned out, the rest was my personal speculation on how it's come to that.
But self-taught programmers were actually miles ahead in terms of theory, algorithm complexity questions and the type of stuff you expect CS majors to be better at. I guess CS majors studied this shit just enough to pass their exams, whereas self-taught devs were insecure and put much more effort.
I've personally recommended "The Imposter's notebook" to self taught devs, and in my personal experience, this book has taught me more valuable stuff than my entire stay in my University.

>>12253435
The self taught guys will leave for greener pasture in 2 years leaving behind experimental code that's become ingrained in the the company but nobody understands. If they are capable they don't need to be employed by anyone so you have no leverage over them.
The NPC will churn out code according to specifications for 30 years and be happy about it.

>>12251011
then why are you saltily posting images from a pedo movie to 4channel

>>12253435
>people who like the npcmeme are in charge of hiring

jesus

>>12254308
Yep, ever since I was a senior dev I've been conducting interviews. Later became a team lead, now in middle management.
I also post Craig Sanjay memes, so what faggot?

>>12253435
France here, it is a nightmare getting any job without either some major work experience (so good luck if this is your first job) or you do not come from fancy ass school and are selftaught

Self-taught coder, was quite involved in the demoscene back then... Gave up IT in France. It's not like France is a major IT player anyway.

>>12254251
theres this pedo movie i saw of a 50 year old guy running his hand across a little girls body from top to bottom, i remember the girl arching towards him any sauce?

>>12254996
That sounds horrible. I hope no-one posts any links or images.

>>12251011
What do you mean by "debt" ?

Germany here, I have been working part time while studying CS (in which I now have a major). There are no tuition fees and at the same time most companies here pay you better if you have a degree (however you dont need one to get a job)

But from an Amerifat perspective, I figure that it might make less sense to go for a university degree if one has to pay 100k gets brainwashed along the way and ends wup with no practical skills while the industry shits on you and hires some pajeet kid

>>12254891
Well, can't say we have these problems in Eastern Europe.
Junior (self taught devs) usually star at around 1k euros net (16k eur gross) - MUCH cheaper than their western counterparts. Standard of living for the dev is the same though.
1 year down the road, if they're good enough it's up to 3k euros/month NET (43k gross) - so it still costs less to hire a dev, yet that dev is living like a king (nets standard net salary for the Western world, spends it in EE where every service is essentially 66% off).

You should blame your tax rates :/ And if you're as lazy as German devs, maybe step it up, too (can't say about the rest of Western Europe but germans are horribly inefficient and outright lazy. Their productivity is around 50% that of a Slav/British dev from my experience).

The "self-taught" meme is pretty silly since most of what you do in university is teach yourself shit. The basics are basics whether you study them while in uni or not it's just that in uni there's someone that actually points out the flaws in your work and you get a degree that proves you've done something. The thing with "self-taught" people is they might actually have more experience in hours in programming itself if they're really motivated, it's not that there's something magical about being "self-taught".

>>12251011
Im in your camp, self taught dev brother. Ive been messing with this shit since I was 5. No school, straight off to work after high school. Lovin' it.