/biz/ - Business & Finance

>>12149118
And most Marxist countries aren’t even around anymore.

Centrally planned economy is superior. Prove me wrong

>>12149138
Hitler

>>12149118
caused by central banks (socialism)

>>12149138
Nah, u right fampai

>>12149134
Implying true Marxism was ever reached.

>>12149118
you can't have a recession if you destroy the market before and people starve to death.
Marx was a fucking genius
>>12149138
Ludwig von Mises fucked your asshole with sandpaper as a condom

>>12149155
implying there is a true scotsman

>>12149143
nazi germany is probably the only efficient example of a centrally planned economy.

>>12149138
how do you expect a few dozen people to value millions of goods better than the free market does...

>>12149138
>Centrally planned economy is superior.

>>12149523

Read Cockshott faggot

>>12149134
>>12149155
Marxism isn't an economic system, but a school of thought.

>>12149138
Centrally planning things works well for some things, less so for others. I suggest you check out the economics of feasible socialism by alec nove, although excuse his lack of understanding of exploitation.

>>12149118
Capitalism is fucking based. The only people who complain about it always end up looking like pic related

>>12149692
filtered

>>12149691
>faggot
>Cockishot

Sounds about right.

>>12149806
stay mad classcuck

>>12149692
>feasible socialism

ITT: losers with no stake in an economically productive endeavor argue about macroeconomics as a way to cope with their lack of prospects.

>>12149897

>>12149897
Keep licking those boots

>>12149134
china is doing capitalism but doing it with marxist economic model, when china wins know marx won in the end :^)

>>12149909
Some day you'll be licking the barrel of my rifle, pinko.

>>12149515
Because politicans are superhumans with genius tier intellects, that's why they get elected..

Maybe people shouldn't have used 'basic economics' for everything

>>12149143
hitler did nothing wrong

>>12149864
I don't know why you're replying to me. Your posts look like this! What a beautiful feature of this site that lets us filter out the mongs who want to pretend that this is reddit :)

>>12149523
>gigantic megacorps some of which are bigger than entire countries are all internally centrally planned
>central planning doesn't work

lol just lol at not understanding capitalism well enough to realize that fully automated luxury communism is inevitable and that all profit is inefficiency

>>12150005
Megacorps are selling a product, not running a country.

To bad Microsoft doesn't sell a button that kills all commies.

>thinking that isn't the plan all along
>thinking the people that made this recession didn't see it coming a couple years ago
>thinking this recession will somehow impact the 1% who made it
>thinking they won't make EVEN MORE money (puts) from this coming recession
boy oh boy its like 2008 all over again.

>>12150046
lol Microsoft got killed by communist software (Linux)

>>12150046
large corporations have massive internal logistical load, they are basically countries.

>>12150046
country is a product you dipshit...

>>12150063
yes, it will recover and you profit more, but the rate of profit, that doesn't recover, and one day in the next 100 years you will have an unrecoverable recession as the rate of profit dips below 0% and become dinner

>>12150005
That doesn't rebuke the ECP because those corps still operate based on price signals. Capitalists would argue that there is a balance that capitalism falls back to between too much vertical integration and too little.

One day whole planets might be managed by corporations, but if the context was a galactic civilization with thousands of star systems under its control, then that fact would not be sufficient to disprove the benefits of the price mechanism created by markets. We need to look at the proportion given the scale, not an absolute magnitude of size. And we need to see things over time, because a span of a century may just be an anomaly or transitory effect.

>>12149138
>Centrally planned economy is superior. Prove me wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8LtQhIQ2AE

>>12149118
Yea but you can buy during the dip.

>>12150115
lol at having the double-think necessary to believe in the legitimacy of price signals when $1200 cocktails are a real thing that rich people buy and the entire field of marketing exists and the state buys billion dollar fighter planes

The price signal is a limited indicator of anything at all, central planners can make markets efficient through the use of other data points which aren't as dependent on human irrationality

>>12149927

Based and redpilled

>>12150138
that was a few days post capitalism before they figured anything out.
Every single hungry ussr meme you see is either not the ussr or has some specific story behind it, you can find images of empty grocery store shelves in the US as well, one of them commonly attributed to the USSR IS of the US, a store that was moving location and selling off all its current stock.

Dont post friedman like that, hes one of the few capitalists who actually understand things but continues to try and argue that capitalism is still the way to go based on benefits, he wouldn't resort to red scare propoganda memes.

>>12150046
>>Megacorps are selling a product, not running a country.
They're selling multiple products
>Defense company making missiles, airplanes, and cybersecurity services
>Food and consumer products own by a handful of conglomerates
>Oil companies having their own foreign policy departments

>>12150138
>central planing bad
what about 4 asian tigers and china and fashist italy ?

>>12150202

Shut the fuck up you commie sack of shit. If all you want to do with your life is live in public housing, eat stale bread and take a dirty bus to the park then be my guest but don't drag the rest of civilization down with you, you fucking loser. It's always loser that want to live vicariously through the power of the state to bring others down to their level.

>>12150242
>he thinks living in ticky tacky eating preservatives and making investors money is an upgrade

Civilization is already down, we could be on mars by now. If only stalin were immortal ;_;

>>12150191
>lol at having the double-think necessary to believe in the legitimacy of price signals when $1200 cocktails are a real thing that rich people buy and the entire field of marketing exists and the state buys billion dollar fighter planes

Sure, I am no longer a libertarian and I accept that the market is limited. But so is the state and this is explained quite well be Mises and Hayek in their interpretations of the ECP, which I am going to wager you haven't read because you are referencing consumer items that are irrational to buy rather than the process of configuring production optimally regardless of what particular product is desired, which is actually the problem with central planning and is always what brainlets don't fucking understand about the ECP.

It doesn't matter that people buy irrational things because... *at least the market is capable of even producing those things in the first place*. That is the *real* problem of economic calculation not the final price of the end good, but determining the costs of higher order goods (factors of production).

>>12150265
Kys

>>12150269
The majority of people live in poverty, almost all the easily-accesible sources of all raw material, including most metals, are gone. But on the plus side, some dentist gets to own a franchise jet-ski dealership while paying less tax than a cashier

>>12150291
Stupid capitalist dog. Take your fascism and bigotry back to 4Chan.

4Channel is our website now, and anti-collectivists are NOT welcome.

>>12150380
You aren't arguing the point, which is the ECP. You are just referencing irrelevancies that have confounding and complicated causalities. Were the countries that practiced central planning particular responsible with their raw materials? Kek.

Perhaps the majority of people have always and will always live in poverty? Maybe. Still would not effect the central point of whether central planning would be preferable to limited market ordering of the economy.

>>12150418
t. hungry venezuelan shill, fuck off Pablo.

>>12150585
>venezuela
confirmed for not even knowing what socialism means

>>12150636
Yeah, the true scotsman, nice argument, brainlet.

Most people have an opinion but have not even read one page of Marx.

It will take at least one more decade for even a small minority of the population to understand what he was talking about.

>>12150663
Classic capitalist word games. Venezuela isn't real socialism and you know it.

>>12150734
Marx is very easy to understand, and his claims are largely empirical ones. Marxists usually argue over what sort of data to use, although some people still fight over the main arguments.

>>12150830
>Venezuela is real socialism and you know it.
Oh, thanks for agreeing with me mate, have a great day now.

>>12150830
>anything that isn't an ideal representation doesn't count

>>12150899
>no democratic control of the means of production
>75-80% of the economy privately held and run by capitalists
>"socialism"

>>12149155
lmao

>>12150899
It's not that it isn't an "ideal" representation. It's that it has nothing whatsoever to do with socialism.

Over 70% of its economy is private sector. It has a lower % of state sector employees than the UK, Finland, Sweden and several other European nations. Over 55% of its healthcare is private sector, which is higher than the fucking US.

Yes they have a state controlled oil industry, but so do Norway and Saudi Arabia, neither of which are socialist.

Socialism is defined by an abolition of private ownership of the means of production in favour of some form of collectivised (traditionally taken to mean worker) ownership. Venezuela literally is not even close to that description, it's just a third world social democracy dependent on a poorly managed oil sector.

Fucking uneducated brainlets everywhere

>>12150948
Pasty skinny fat bros on 4chan who don't read are idiots? You don't say.

>>12150948
Neat. Point to succesful iterations of socialism pls

>>12151002
Cuba has been fairly successful despite years of blockade and aggression by the US and the fall of its state sponsor.

You have to define by what you mean as successful. More growth? Better health outcomes?

Compare Puerto Rico and Cuba.

>honestly believing leaving every economic decision up to central planners is best
>honestly believing leaving every economic decision up to the market is best
Neither is true. Not even pic related is 100% true. And it depends on the country in question too.

>>12150663
Socialism means one thing only, the workers own the means of production.
It is not a gradient or something obscure, it is binary, it either is socialism or it is not socialism. Venezuela has some mixed economy meme, and as such as not socialism. There is no ambiguity here.

>>12151026
Compare Haiti and the Dominican republic.
Literally the same island

>>12151002
There aren't any long term, large scale examples of socialism at all because guess what, capitalists don't just give up their control of the economy for fun when they have statist force backing up their authority and ownership

On smaller scales, you have communities like the anarchist colonies of Spain during the civil war, free territories of Ukraine, Zapatistas, Rojova, etc. Depends on what you mean by successful, really

>>12151002
The USSR was a successful example. The Western fascists lied about poverty and suffering there in order to destroy communism's appeal.

20 million did not die and Soviet Russia was 10x as prosperous as America in the 40's-90's. There were no food lines, and only capitalist spies were ever punished.

>>12151061
What's your point? Two entirely separate histories.

Whatever you think about capitalism, at least it has created self-loathing, spiritually defeated wagies that make wagecuck threads everyday.

>he thinks his country's capitalist

>>12151321
Cite your sources commie.